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  • SunXia
    SunXia closed this thread because:
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    18:47, September 2, 2019

    So Nozarashi is not a bankai? But Zaraki's zanpakuto is always in its released state like Zangetsu, and yet it still changes shape when Zaraki calls it's name, which is typical of what happens with a Bankai.

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    • Calling a zanpakutos name is not just for bankai release.

      Calling a release command "Drink" and then the name is a shikai release.

      Shouting (normally) BANKAI and then the name is bankai release.

      And anyway it is not that far out for there to be a semi released shikai.

      Yumichika Ayasegawa uses a semi shikai to past his off has a melee type. When it is really a kido type.

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    • Fair enough. I was just confused due to the change of shape

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    • I mean, yeah, most Zanpakuto change shape with the initial release, but Nozarashi is drastic. It goes from a little sword, to a huge ass axe type thing. With the exception of Senbonzakura, that is the only other one I am aware of.

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    • I always thought Kenny's sword (pre-Nazarashi) was already in its released state much like Ichigo's Zangetsu

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    • BoschePG wrote: I always thought Kenny's sword (pre-Nazarashi) was already in its released state much like Ichigo's Zangetsu

      It is.

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    • see, that's where the confusion lay for me

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    • If you look at it this way it could be the Nazarashi was suppressing it self so it would be that Pre-Nazarashi sword so it is much like Ichigo's Zangetsu when it was suppressed by the spirt

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    • Zi23 wrote: If you look at it this way it could be the Nazarashi was suppressing it self so it would be that Pre-Nazarashi sword so it is much like Ichigo's Zangetsu when it was suppressed by the spirt

      If you think about it, there's no way Zangetsu could've even HAD a sealed form, since there was no Asauchi to seal it in.

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    • Nozarashi was SEALED until Kenpachi called out it's name. Ichigo has Zangetsu always in released state due to inability to control his reiatsu. Take notice it stayed in released state AFTER he called out Zangetsu's name. A blade CANNOT be released without knowing its name.

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    • It could be a semi-constant release as everyone like the cat talked like it was known to everyone that it was always released even when it's name was not known because of the anount of power kenpachi was releasing causing it to be classified a constant release type but it change was not in effect because they were in disharmony between the blade and kenpachi causing the power between then to be cut in half also having a effect on the form that the sword changed into as well.

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    • So he has always had a constant release due to his ridiculous power/his lack of communication with his sword and as such he was stuck with that semi-released shikai... So now that he has talked to his sword and achieved his shikai, Will this mean he will be able to seal it now or is he stuck toting around that giant axe ? (haven't read the manga so i don't know if he resealed it or not)

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    • DekuRyu wrote: So he has always had a constant release due to his ridiculous power/his lack of communication with his sword and as such he was stuck with that semi-released shikai... So now that he has talked to his sword and achieved his shikai, Will this mean he will be able to seal it now or is he stuck toting around that giant axe ? (haven't read the manga so i don't know if he resealed it or not)

      580Kenpachi attacks

      As of chapter 580, he has.

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    • that because if he had in out the whole time he would just kill everything and wouldn't get to have fun like how he was trying to see how far he could kill the four women quincy with using his full shikia and just his semi-released and because it has a time limit to the use of it as well if you think about it.

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    • Zi23 wrote: that because if he had in out the whole time he would just kill everything and wouldn't get to have fun like how he was trying to see how far he could kill the four women quincy with using his full shikia and just his semi-released and because it has a time limit to the use of it as well if you think about it.

      A time limit? I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by that. There's no time limit for the release of a Zanpakuto's Shikai form, as far as I know.

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    • Stefan (Shikai - "Rust & Shatter") wrote: If you think about it, there's no way Zangetsu could've even HAD a sealed form, since there was no Asauchi to seal it in.

      He had an Asauchi... just not in the traditional sense. White essentially substituted as one. The sealed form of Ichigo's Zanpakuto has always been that large sword he used at the start of the series. Even after losing and regaining his Shinigami powers the first time, he uses the same broken sword against Urahara. Though in all honesty, there would be very little point in Ichigo sealing his sword, all things considered.
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    • hi. errr i'm new to this. but after reading bits on nozarashi, i realise that it resembles closer to a giant war cleaver when in shikai, rather than an axe. mmmm worth a thought?

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    • Zaraki's pre-Nozarashi was in a constant-Shikai state, his reiatsu forced the sword into Shikai but because they had little no to communication it only released "half" of it's full potential. This is somewhat similiar to Renji's Zabimaru not releasing it's true Bankai until the Sternritter Arc due to Renji being "not worthy". Since Zaraki now learned the name, he can go into "full Shikai" and that's how that axe was made to be :P

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    • an easy way to look at it is yumichika's sword, by giving it hte wrong command it releases one way and the proper command its real state, yes his zanpakuto was already in a constant release state but by using its proper release phrase and name it assumed its true form just like yumichika's. its not uncommon as even byakuya's senbonzakura has different appearances well in his bankai, senkei, goukei and shuhei hakuteiken, 3 different names causes it to assume 3 different forms while all still are his bankai.

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    • Sanj66 wrote: an easy way to look at it is yumichika's sword, by giving it hte wrong command it releases one way and the proper command its real state, yes his zanpakuto was already in a constant release state but by using its proper release phrase and name it assumed its true form just like yumichika's. its not uncommon as even byakuya's senbonzakura has different appearances well in his bankai, senkei, goukei and shuhei hakuteiken, 3 different names causes it to assume 3 different forms while all still are his bankai.

      I'm a little confused, but I assume that the middle part is about Kenpachi, and Nozarashi? Also, Renji would be a better example than Byakuya, since Renji's original Bankai was incomplete, due to him not knowing its true name. Byakuya's Bankai does have more than one form, but they're all complete in their own ways.

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    • Stefan (Shikai - "Rust & Shatter") wrote:

      Sanj66 wrote: an easy way to look at it is yumichika's sword, by giving it hte wrong command it releases one way and the proper command its real state, yes his zanpakuto was already in a constant release state but by using its proper release phrase and name it assumed its true form just like yumichika's. its not uncommon as even byakuya's senbonzakura has different appearances well in his bankai, senkei, goukei and shuhei hakuteiken, 3 different names causes it to assume 3 different forms while all still are his bankai.

      I'm a little confused, but I assume that the middle part is about Kenpachi, and Nozarashi? Also, Renji would be a better example than Byakuya, since Renji's original Bankai was incomplete, due to him not knowing its true name. Byakuya's Bankai does have more than one form, but they're all complete in their own ways.

      actually like i said yumichika is the best comparison, i just stated that about byakuya to show even complete relationships do have different forms as well and its not as hard to grasp. as in why is it so hard for people to grasp that yes his sword was always released before but now it is in harmony with him and shows its true form, the yumichika analogy.

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    • Sanj66 wrote: actually like i said yumichika is the best comparison, i just stated that about byakuya to show even complete relationships do have different forms as well and its not as hard to grasp.

      Actually, I never said that Renji made a better example than Yumichika. When I stated that Renji would make a better example than Byakuya, I was referring to their respective Bankai, a topic which you brought up in your post.

      Also, since we're discussing Kenpachi's Shikai, and Shikai and Bankai are like apples and oranges, Tosen's Shikai had two different but complete forms, so he'd make a better example than Byakuya in that regard.

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    • Ichigo's first sword off rukia was also always in its released state and that was no truer to the real zangetsu, and oh whats this another new truer zangetsu... face it you guys, Zanpakto's have many forms until it and its master accept eachother. Kenpachi may have had an overwhelming power and forced his sword into a released state but without getting his zanpakto's permission there's no way for the two to accept each other.

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    • i assumed Ranji just had two bankai forms? i.e Sou for raw power, and Hihio for manuverability, firing lasers, and riding it?

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    • no Renji's Hihio Zabimaru was an incomplete bankai because Zabimaru didn't trust him enough to allow him the full power so it capped the power it allowed him by giving him a false or half true name. However, Renji then met Ichibe Hyosube who decided that Renji was worthy of the true power and so revealed the true name as Soo Zabimaru thus allowing Renji full access to the full power. However, I believe that Renji may still be able to access the Hihio abilities.

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    • At what point in the history of this series has Renji ever used Hihio Zabimaru to ride on and fire lasers, have you ever even seen bleach before?

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    • I think the laser thing is Krazyfan1 thinking about the Hikotsu Taiho ability, however i have no idea about the riding thing

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    • Salubri wrote: At what point in the history of this series has Renji ever used Hihio Zabimaru to ride on and fire lasers, have you ever even seen bleach before?

      ...... "Hikotsu Taiho"
      HikotsuTaiho02
      Bleach Fade to Black - Renji and Ichigo's Bankai! (sub ita)

      Bleach Fade to Black - Renji and Ichigo's Bankai! (sub ita)

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    • I'll give you credit for the laser thing, but for the riding on the Bankai, how about you give us something that is actually canon?

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    • Hikotsu Taiho is not a laser. Its concentrated spiritual energy. Saying Energy blast would have made more sense then laser. a Laser is a device that emits light by amplification that comes from electromagnetic radiation. Therefore its not spiritual energy.

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    • Nozarashi is indeed his Shikai. His previous Zanpakuto form was not his Shakai. He must have used a false name to release it long ago. It's power is still a mystery but my guess is to cut everything. Think back to how many swords and building he's cut like butter. It's not like the guy from squad zero tho. Kenpachi doesn't have to slice all the way through, it kinda just pops out.

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    • ^

      That's not quite accurate. Nozarashi has always been in Shikai ever since Kenpachi obtained it—it just wasn't its true Shikai form. The reason it's released constantly is because Kenpachi can't seal it due to his monstrous Reiatsu.

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    • Well regardless of how Nozarashi took its current form I for one look forward to seeing how long it takes Kenpachi to achieve Bankai and what Nozarashi could do once Bankai is achieved. If the power difference between Shikai and Bankai is as stark as with the former head captain than Kenpachi could become as powerful as Aizen, whom if the anime is any indication never achieved Bankai either or just never bothered to show it on screen.

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    • Oh, for the love of...

      Why does everyone want Kenpachi to have Bankai? He's clearly at the power level of one already, sheesh.

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    • Personally, I don't think Nozarashi was ever in a semi-released state. When Kenpachi said his blade was always released, that wasn't actually the case. I believe that he "thought" that his zanpakuto was in it's final stage, while it was actually just in it's sealed form. This was because Kenpachi never tried to learn his zanpakuto's name. Even when he wanted to learn it's name, he couldn't because he restricted his powers. So its always been in it's sealed state. Even if you use Ichigo's Zangetsu being constantly released, I also have a thought on that. The reason why Ichigo always had Zangetsu released is because of his inability to control his spiritual pressure. Or maybe he likes it that way. It's not like other captain's zanpakutos where they would be a huge inconvenience.

      As for Nozarashi's ability, I doubt it has any. It might just be a giant axe to increase Kenpachi's destructive power.

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    • If it was always in its sealed state, why wasn't it huge like Ichigo's sealed Zanpakuto? Kenpachi had just as little, if not less, control over his spiritual power, which means his sword would be massive instead of regular-sized.

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    • Ichigo didn't have an asauchi then. It was just his quincy and shinigami powers solidified into a sword. Still, these are just my thoughts, so everyone else might be right. Just adding my thoughts.

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    • chapter 667 : byakuya stated that the assumption that ken's katana was constantly in its released form was erroneous and never even existed to begin with..

      sorry bad english.

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    • True. Byakuya did shine some light not only on Zaraki but also Ichigo.

      We now know that assuming that Ichigo is in his Shikai state might be, and has I see it, will be shown to be wrong. Because also as I see it, if Ichigo is already in Shikai then it doesn't make any sense at all. Not seeing what he is and what he should be able to do.

      Also Nozarashi ability seems to not be absolute. After all he was able to cut Gremmy meteor like it was nothing, but when it came to Gerard sword. He was only able to chippe it a little and worst Zaraki himself seemed to be cut in half around the waist line.

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    • Well... Chapter 668 dropped a doozy of a revelation...

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    • Arawn 999 wrote: Well... Chapter 668 dropped a doozy of a revelation...

      "insert called that shit dance here" but I like how the most savage character in the bleach verse is the only shinigami we know of to unlock his Bankai through love and trust, instead of battling the zanpaktou spirit into submission so that it deems you worthy to use its greatest release. Its a nice kind of irony.

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    • Personally, this info is starting to make elements of Yachiru and Kenpachi being similar a tad creepy. I'm hoping this doesn't lead into really left-field notions to explain how all of this makes any sense. My favorite ones I thought out were: 1. His intense power forced a Bankai that was premature, hence the Bankai taking on a child-like form. 2. After fully utilizing Shikai, Nozarashi had to take a break which is why Yachiru suddenly vanished. 3. The fact his power was still capable of imprinting early on could suggest it could have also subjugated the spirit from merely Kenpachi accepting it. 4. Yachiru is the spirit form of his Bankai. Finally, 5. An explanation to her having a wacky Shikai could be Kenpachi's overwhelming Reiatsu extending that far. None of these have any value, and I only state them for people to think of their own, but to also consider how crazy speculation will get if left unchecked.

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    • Lokker G wrote: Personally, this info is starting to make elements of Yachiru and Kenpachi being similar a tad creepy. I'm hoping this doesn't lead into really left-field notions to explain how all of this makes any sense. My favorite ones I thought out were: 1. His intense power forced a Bankai that was premature, hence the Bankai taking on a child-like form. 2. After fully utilizing Shikai, Nozarashi had to take a break which is why Yachiru suddenly vanished. 3. The fact his power was still capable of imprinting early on could suggest it could have also subjugated the spirit from merely Kenpachi accepting it. 4. Yachiru is the spirit form of his Bankai. Finally, 5. An explanation to her having a wacky Shikai could be Kenpachi's overwhelming Reiatsu extending that far. None of these have any value, and I only state them for people to think of their own, but to also consider how crazy speculation will get if left unchecked.

      Lilynette had her own Zanpakuto as well, though Yachiru being able to use her own Zanpakuto is a bit of a plot hole.

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    • Lokker... a guy who is like 7 feet tall and always looking for his next fix of adrenaline walking around with a little girl always on his shoulder/two feet away from him unaffected by the many times he is covered in blood is creepy already.

      Specially when she giggled once she touched his blood soaked Zanpakutou, what kind of normal, non creepy toddler does that?

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    • Kaestal wrote: Lokker... a guy who is like 7 feet tall and always looking for his next fix of adrenaline walking around with a little girl always on his shoulder/two feet away from him unaffected by the many times he is covered in blood is creepy already.

      Specially when she giggled once she touched his blood soaked Zanpakutou, what kind of normal, non creepy toddler does that?

      I just meant that while it's bad enough to preface a blood-thirsty rogue with an adopted orphan as his lieutenant, the creepiness has gotten worse with the possibility the similar personality aspects goes beyond just growing up together.

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    • Maybe Yachiru, if she is his Zanpakutou, represents the childlike glee Kenpachi has when fighting.

      The guy has such a good time cutting people to pieces it is like he is a little kid at Disneyland for the first time.

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    • Xilinoc wrote:

      BoschePG wrote: I always thought Kenny's sword (pre-Nazarashi) was already in its released state much like Ichigo's Zangetsu

      It is.

      No Its Not, Byakuya Said That His Pre-Nozarashi Was Just His Basic Zanpakuto Form.

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    • Byakuya, the leading authority of Zanpakutou and their various traits in all of Soul Society.

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    • Kaestal wrote: Byakuya, the leading authority of Zanpakutou and their various traits in all of Soul Society.

      Byakuya said that Soul Society had assumed Zaraki's zanpakuto was in constant shikai release due to his immense power, but upon seeing him use his true shikai realizes they were wrong.

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    • ^ He said they assumed it was a constant-release type (i.e. they assumed it would constantly be in that form and never change or improve).

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    • Arwan Is Right, lol.

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    • Yyp
      Yyp removed this reply because:
      Off topic - this thread is about Nozarashi
      21:15, April 12, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Yyp
      Yyp removed this reply because:
      Reply to off topic post which has been removed
      21:15, April 12, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Yyp
      Yyp removed this reply because:
      Off topic - this thread is about Nozarashi
      21:15, April 12, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Kaestal wrote: Maybe Yachiru, if she is his Zanpakutou, represents the childlike glee Kenpachi has when fighting.

      The guy has such a good time cutting people to pieces it is like he is a little kid at Disneyland for the first time.

      Yachiru has her own shikai and bankai. She is an actual reaper not a imaginary or zanpaktou spirit

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    • Wordz wrote:

      Kaestal wrote: Maybe Yachiru, if she is his Zanpakutou, represents the childlike glee Kenpachi has when fighting.

      The guy has such a good time cutting people to pieces it is like he is a little kid at Disneyland for the first time.

      Yachiru has her own shikai and bankai. She is an actual reaper not a imaginary or zanpaktou spirit

      Actually, it's strongly implied in the manga (and outright confirmed in the novels) that Yachiru was in fact Nozarashi all this time. Just because she's a Zanpakuto does not make her any less real, you know.

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    • Do the novels explain how she has her own completely separate and unrelated Shikai, and how everyone else can see and interact with her? I think those have always been the biggest sticking points re: her being a spirit.

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    • I'm not sure, if they did provide an explanation for it I probably missed it somewhere or it got lost in the fan translations (hence why I agree with you guys not to rely too blindly on them). I have to admit I haven't read all of the novels yet, as it's not easy finding decent ones that aren't just summaries (such as SAFWY). But CFYOW does imply that there is more to Zanpakuto than we think, as at one point Kazeshini reveals info about Zangetsu and Nozarashi that Hisagi himself did not even know (trust me, I don't quite get it either).

      That being said, I think I can answer one of your questions: how she was visible. Wasn't it stated in the manga itself that materializing your Zanpakuto spririt is not only possible, but necessary to achieve bankai? Well, due to Kenpachi's potential, he has been subconsciously materializing her the entire time, which also explains why he achieved bankai so suddenly. He just needed to be aware of it and stop holding back. At least, that's how I always saw it...

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    • Materializing it to be visible is one thing, but other people being able to touch that spirit and that spirit being able to interact with the world (and needing food) seems a bit much, especially for an unconscious act.

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    • No it is not implied that's just fan theory nonsense. Yachiru's family her parennts were killed right before she met Kenpachi who's zanpakto is Nozarashi. She is a Shinigami who has her own Zanpakuto as shown in her battle against Gremmy its made plane that she is a soul from Kasajishi district of Rukongai. Maybe you should just read the thousand year blood war story arch for yourself where all this is made clear.

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    • Well, I admit my theory has some holes in it. And it's frustrating that is was never properly answered in the manga, but it's the best explanation I've got.

      Anyway, due to a quick search I just did, the best I could find was in "Do Know Always Love You", Isane flashing back to the last time she saw Yachiru (Gremmy fight) who (according to the translator) said "Finally Ken-chan can call out to me" before she dissapeared the moment Kenpachi released Nozarashi against Gremmy.

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    • Wordz wrote: No it is not implied that's just fan theory nonsense. Yachiru's family her parennts were killed right before she met Kenpachi who's zanpakto is Nozarashi. She is a Shinigami who has her own Zanpakuto as shown in her battle against Gremmy its made plane that she is a soul from Kasajishi district of Rukongai. Maybe you should just read the thousand year blood war story arch for yourself where all this is made clear.

      Let's poke some holes into your "facts", shall we?

      1) Yachiru's parents were never seen. Literally her first known moment of existing was appearing before Zaraki and touching his blade.

      2) Yachiru was explicitly stated to be a nickname Zaraki gave her as he did not know her true name.

      3) Isane clearly said that Yachiru's Zanpakuto is highly unusual, and wondered if it even was a true Zanpakuto at all.

      And yes, I did read the TYBW, thank you very much. I now do wonder if you read anything about it.

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    • BoschePG wrote: I always thought Kenny's sword (pre-Nazarashi) was already in its released state much like Ichigo's Zangetsu

      ichigo's zangetsu is unique as it was never in its true form until Its revealed how ichi was created and possesed by white then he reforges his power revealing zangetsu is a dual blade zanpakto in its released shikai and a great sword in its true bankai from. Saying Nozarashi is a bankai is like saying is any zanpakto's name a bankai.
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    • I'm going to take this opportunity and quote something a friend of mine posted elsewhere.

      Smiling and getting up, Yachiru looked up at the “stage” Gremmy had produced. Zaraki Kenpachi and Gremmy battled on top of an enormous cuboid that was formed by raising up the ground.
      “I have to go!”
      “Aah, please wait lieutenant Kusajishi! You shouldn’t move around so vigorously yet……”
      Isane’s outstretched arm slipped through quickly as she broke off into a run.
      “Finally……Finally Ken-chan can call out to me……”
      She faintly murmured.
      Those were Yachiru’s words, the last that Isane had heard.

      What I've posted above is an excerpt from WE DO knot ALWAYS LOVE YOU. Part 11 to be specific -- which is Marriage Registration 3. Yachiru did her whole vanishing act immediately after saying this. She's Nozarashi. Very little "fan theory" in this case.

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    • Timjer wrote: Well, I admit my theory has some holes in it. And it's frustrating that is was never properly answered in the manga, but it's the best explanation I've got.

      Anyway, due to a quick search I just did, the best I could find was in "Do Know Always Love You", Isane flashing back to the last time she saw Yachiru (Gremmy fight) who (according to the translator) said "Finally Ken-chan can call out to me" before she dissapeared the moment Kenpachi released Nozarashi against Gremmy.

      You are on track now. The piece your missing in the puzzle is Gremmy's power.  Which was to make imagined things real.
      
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    • Is...is that supposed to imply he was making Yachiru real since the first time she met Kenpachi, or...?

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    • You should reread it its difficult to explain Gremmy gives Kenpachi a power boost as he said he imagined Kenpachi to be powerful. But as far as yachiru in Gremmy's mind she is a girl not a zanpakto and all Gremmy imagines onece it becomes reality it is such. Furthermore Kenpachi released and activated Nozarashi as Yachiru watched.

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    • Also after a fresh reread of Bleach. 571 to 580. It still reads as Yachiru was killed in the collateral damage from Kenpachi smashing the meteor and the huge stage falling apart she even has the flashback of her life from the day they met. After the battle Kenpachi finds her torn destroyed lieutenant badge on a shred of her clothing and after looking and calling out to her getting no answer he orders his squad to find her but they say her reiatsu is completely gone guessing she's ran off Kenpachi spazzes yelling find her and then the next battle begins as new Quincy attack.

      So she's no zanpakto she's MIA Going by how it is written. But again I say its best to read it yourself as peoples fandom creates skewed theories outside of the manga's storytelling.

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    • Darkhunter-X wrote:


      Calling a zanpakutos name is not just for bankai release.

      Calling a release command "Drink" and then the name is a shikai release.

      Shouting (normally) BANKAI and then the name is bankai release.

      And anyway it is not that far out for there to be a semi released shikai.

      Yumichika Ayasegawa uses a semi shikai to past his off has a melee type. When it is really a kido type.

      Drink and Swallow are Nozarashi's attack techniques.

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    • Wordz wrote: Also after a fresh reread of Bleach. 571 to 580. It still reads as Yachiru was killed in the collateral damage from Kenpachi smashing the meteor and the huge stage falling apart she even has the flashback of her life from the day they met. After the battle Kenpachi finds her torn destroyed lieutenant badge on a shred of her clothing and after looking and calling out to her getting no answer he orders his squad to find her but they say her reiatsu is completely gone guessing she's ran off Kenpachi spazzes yelling find her and then the next battle begins as new Quincy attack.

      So she's no zanpakto she's MIA Going by how it is written. But again I say its best to read it yourself as peoples fandom creates skewed theories outside of the manga's storytelling.

      "She was killed by Kenpachi destroying the meteor"... Yeah, the manga doesn't say that at all. Otherwise you'd think something besides her conveniently empty clothing would remain behind... Not to mention why she released Kenpachi's bankai powers...

      Look, feel free to have your own interpretation of the events, but don't push them as absolute truths. Especially since the common consensus amongst the fandom is the same thing that the novels chose to follow.

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    • Wordz wrote: Drink and Swallow are Nozarashi's attack techniques.

      No, they're not. They're both different translations of Nozarashi's release command.

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    • Timjer wrote:

      Wordz wrote: Drink and Swallow are Nozarashi's attack techniques.

      No, they're not. They're both different translations of Nozarashi's release command.

      Swallow was said after the shikai was already released right before he destroys the meteorite.

      Drink is said after his bankai is released before he chops the giant quincy.

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    • Heres yachiru fade to black scene amongst the giant stone rubble all around her from kenpachi's fight.

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    • And heres Kenpachi finding a piece of her kimono after the fight.

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    • Here is where they say her reiatsu is gone.

      Kenpachi still has his zanpakto shikai and bankai after this but yachiru is never seen again. Her being his zanpakto spirit does not add up to the manga its just speculation by fans.

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