FANDOM


  • Yyp

    I didn't want to crowd out the discussion on novel integration on the other thread (link for anyone who hasnt seen it), but I have done up a draft Expanded Universe tab and I wanted to see what people thought on the part of it that has nothing to do with the novels. The discussion moved a long time ago in the direction of having all other media stuff on these new tabs and I was trying to think of how to improve the presentation of the games and films bits as they are rather poorly structured at present and amount to little more than a series of sentences saying A appeared in X, Y and Z.

    So that brings me to this draft page on Rukia and some new templates, which are based on the Game of Thrones "Appearances" template that I thought would be handy here. In short if its linked, the character is in that book, if not, then they arent. And the game one has an option to add an asterix to mark them as non-playable in a game etc. That can be added in to the others, like say for an * on Fade to Black to denote Dark Rukia.

    The aim being to not just present it better but so that the writing can focus on those special abilities etc instead of what they were in. Feedback on these elements, which could be used even if we didnt go the tab route, would be welcome. Can it be done better, does anyone have different approaches to how we can structure these games/films stuff, does it look the part, etc?

    You can see it on Rukia Kuchiki/Expanded Universe and feel free to edit and expand on that draft page for both this and to illustrate the other thread too.

      Loading editor
    • Hmmm, it's not bad per se, but I still have some issues. See, some characters (and items and terms) would need far more than just a small summary. Some of them would need new Personality, History, and Power sections as well. And maybe even extra infoboxes.

      If you ask me, I suggest that, on top of this, we add a "novelverse" tab and "filler" and "movies" tabs. Keep those things contained in their own seperate continueties. Because, AFAIK, the novels do not contain the events of filler or movies aside from some very obscure shout outs. Rather, they tend to just follow up on the manga itself.

      (P.S.: my original comment, which was more detailed, got swallowed up by the editor, so sorry if this one is less clear)

      EDIT: Ooh, I just had an idea. What if, if it's possible, we make something like "sub-tabs" for the EU tab?

        Loading editor
    • Like collapsible sections?? The way the filler is on the main space??

      See the thing or issue with the Filler is that you have Filler characters that appear in mainline continuity episodes. For example, the three idiot Mod-Souls appear when Kon is fending off Grand Fisher. Filler arcs and filler characters can impact the canon adaptation of the Manga too.

      I am concerned this layout and summary style may not be enough information for some users.

        Loading editor
    • Actually, no. Collapsible sections was not what I meant, as that still puts everything on a single page.

      About filler, I don't fully understand the conundrum. Everything the anime adds that directly contradicts the manga (such as those 3) should be kept out of canon manga sections. Perhaps things like Harribel's backstory or the Forest of Menos could still be acceptable, as they don't really contradict it...

      Hm, what about how the AoT wiki does it? Separating almost all pages into (almost exact) "manga", "anime", "live-action", & other spinoff sections? Look for example at protagonist Eren Yeager's profile (upper right corner)?

        Loading editor
    • Ah I had never seen a wiki use Tabs and then more tabs. I'm not a fan of their particular style, the way its pictures in the top right tabs instead of "anime" or whatever, I am not a fan of having to hover over something to wait and see if its the link I want. I also find it a little hyper intensive BUT that series blew away up and has random spin off stuff that we don't have to deal with.

      So, I think what you are saying is separating out the Expanded Universe tab into multiple tabs that are like Novels, Movies and Games oh and maybe OVA. Then say within the Novels tab, we have more tabs for each of the novels perhaps then the same for the five movies?? (etc)

        Loading editor
    • SunXia wrote: So, I think what you are saying is separating out the Expanded Universe tab into multiple tabs that are like Novels, Movies and Games oh and maybe OVA. Then say within the Novels tab, we have more tabs for each of the novels perhaps then the same for the five movies?? (etc)

      Yeah, pretty much. I do think that might be the best way to do it. Though, I think we don't have to seperate the novels into each individual one, but we'll see once we get those translated if there are too many inconsistencies between them.

        Loading editor
    • Yeah I like Timjer's idea, I was thinking something similar. We probably should avoid using tabs within tabs for EVERY character (for example, Hanatarō could probably suffice with a layout like Yyp made for Rukia there) but for the big boys and girls, having dedicated sub-pages sounds pretty good to me.

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      Okay, so I was thinking this would be a possible foundation to build off of. This is geared towards the lesser characters first and foremost. The AiOM sections are rubbish atm to be frank. I hope this can improve their presentation and allow any additional text to focus on unique things the games for example add rather than just saying they appeared in it. Much quicker & easier to take in the info on what they appeared in from the template than from reading the text (I hope). Whatever we do with the tabs (or if it was added to the pages as they are now), I'm interested in pursuing this as I think it is an improvement, especially for the lesser characters.

      Not sure if it would work best, but what I was thinking was that for the pages that would require more stuff, like Hisagi's Bankai, the templates would be at the top of the page, simply noting that they appeared in them and summarizing the smaller pieces, and then the detail such as the novel stuff would be underneath that. Maybe in that case it would be better to put the novels at the bottom rather than the top as they are in that example. If the order was kept as it is, maybe with a hot link to the info further down the page would be used.

      Extra tabs might work, but I'd be wary of separating it out into too many tabs but that would only be the most prolific characters.

      Xilinoc wrote: Ooooooh, I like the look of Rukia Kuchiki/Expanded Universe - that seems like a good way to convey all the information across the various other mediums. Do you think it would be too page-clogging if certain elements/storylines, like Dark Rukia or the plot of Bleach: WE DO knot ALWAYS LOVE YOU, got more elaborate summaries?

      It could be too much, its hard to tell without being able to see the full extent of the info that is to be added. Maybe this would be a temporary solution and if it becomes too much we could revisit it later.

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      Part one done.

      Just for anyone wondering, the templates that are now on the pages are as up to date as I can get them based on what is already on their pages and the character listings on the game pages. The movie and novel pages dont have character listings so much greater chance of something being left out there. Feel free to update it if you spot someone I missed or a mistake.

        Loading editor
    • Oh man, that template is crisp. Good work as always.

        Loading editor
    • Good work, Yyp, looks good. While the lists should probably be updated in the future with more novel content (such as CFYOW 3 and the other ones), we'll cross that bridge when we get there (yes, I'm hoping to do some of the other, smaller ones once CFYOW is finished). No need to reference to articles that aren't even filled out yet.

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      Okay so we have three examples of this on the wiki right now (Rukia, Roka and Katen Kyōkotsu) and it is clear that there are issues to work out.

      First is how the novel/movie/game appearance templates interact with an infobox - they either have to be forced underneath them with a clear template or else they stick themselves in the middle of an unrelated paragraph as is currently the case on Rukias EU page. We need to resolve that.

      Second is we need to settle on a consistent workable layout.

        Loading editor
    • Hmmmm. Per the infobox thing, I think we could go on a case-by-case basis as far as including the infobox for a given character goes. Why? Well, Ichigo's got a couple non-Image Gallery/Fight pages that don't include his infobox, so there's precedent for just keeping it on the main page. I think it only really needs to be included for characters who have new information pertaining to the data it lists - for example, Roka here with her Fracción status, Resurrección, etc. and I guess Katen Kyokotsu for having a Shikai to use, though I wouldn't protest if that also got canned for consistency.

      As for a layout, that should also be a case-by-case thing, but separated into a few different types, I think:

      1. For characters who just have extensive non-canon *appearances* but don't get major additions to their character therein, like Rukia, I'd be fine with just having the appearances template at the top, followed by subsections for each type of media - Movies, Video Games, Soundtracks, Novels, etc. - with elaboration where necessary (for example, a given Novels section for a character who had a decent role in both, say, SAFWY and CFYOW would have further subsections for each with a plot synopsis for their involvement, maybe a picture if we're lucky).
      2. For characters who get super fleshed-out in a non-canon appearance, like Roka, Seinosuke, Katen Kyōkotsu, and so on, I would have a character template and a more standard character page layout (Personality, Plot, Powers and Abilities, Trivia, etc.) filled with the relevant info from whatever they were focused on by (I'm pretty sure it's just one thing in all cases but I could be wrong), then an "Other Media Appearances" section to cover all the other stuff they appeared in, like Soundtracks and Video Games. The key here would be to not get redundant with the main page where possible, so no Appearance section unless their appearance underwent a drastic change due to the story.
      3. For Hisagi and Shinji...hoo boy. The big, BIG thing with them is their Bankai, I don't think there's any other major "changes" made to them in the non-canon material...so what I would suggest is to give them a plot section for CFYOW, a standalone Bankai section to detail that stuff, THEN the template to cover the rest. That seems like the best compromise at the minute.
        Loading editor
    • I had an idea that I tried to implement on Gremmy, the Soul King, and Yhwach's pages. How about we use the EU tab only for huge differences in characters between media (such as Zanpakuto Spirits, Hisagi, etc.), while keeping the old style for minor ones?

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      This was settled a long time ago, the novel stuff is to be kept separate. Its not right to make allowances for one thing and not for everything else. Its all of one or all of the other.

      The next thing that will help all this is a nice icon/button that can be put in say Gremmy's plot section that will indicate there is additional material and link to the Other Media section or EU tab when we get that far. Ive worked on something but its not finished & dont have time to do it right now but Ill put it up this evening.

        Loading editor
    • Sorry about that, I was just experimenting a bit.

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      Not a problem

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      Yyp wrote:

      The next thing that will help all this is a nice icon/button that can be put in say Gremmy's plot section that will indicate there is additional material and link to the Other Media section or EU tab when we get that far.

      Okay so its not brilliant but it shows the idea and code seems to work fine. It can be refined until people are happy with it (see Template:LookMore and feel free to work on it). See Roka Paramia for it in the infobox.

      LALogo1

      alternative?

      I had originally gone for using the logo from the live action movie in a circle/hexagon, but I dont have good photo editing software on my computer anymore so Ive given up on that and gone for whats above. Maybe someone else can make that (or any picture you think is clear and strongly suggestive of the novels/games/movies) if its preferable to the one I put up.

        Loading editor
    • I can edit the logo like that, would you want just the flame insignia at the top or the title as well? (personally can't think of anything that screams "non-canon" in a broad sense, but using a red version of the logo instead of the usual blue would probably help with association)

        Loading editor
    • The Expanded Universe tab does work. Someone should do Hyōrinmaru next?

        Loading editor
    • Darkmachines wrote: The Expanded Universe tab does work. Someone should do Hyōrinmaru next?

      Thing is, I'd love to, but I'm not sure how to. There is hardly anything to say about Hyōrinmaru in canon to really make it its own page, but I'll see.

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      Xilinoc wrote: I can edit the logo like that, would you want just the flame insignia at the top or the title as well? (personally can't think of anything that screams "non-canon" in a broad sense, but using a red version of the logo instead of the usual blue would probably help with association)

      Yup thats why I wanted it, nothing else stood out enough aside from the likes of Blanks, but theyre not clear enough in a pic small enough to fit in the infobox like that. Just the title please

        Loading editor
    • Say, I was wondering. Should EU appearances of characters (Such as the anime's zanpakuto spirit versions) still link to their main page, or should they link directly to their EU subpage?

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      Timjer wrote: Say, I was wondering. Should EU appearances of characters (Such as the anime's zanpakuto spirit versions) still link to their main page, or should they link directly to their EU subpage?

      Great point. I think all links to the rogue Zanpaktuo spirits should link direct to the EU tab, absolutely. The likes of Roka should link to the EU tab from the novel pages, but not the episode/chapter she appeared in.

      Other things might be a bit more complicated, depends on what there is. I think in the summary when Hisagi & Hirako activate their bankai, that sentence should link to their EU tab once they have one (the AiOM section will suffice in the meantime).

      Edit: For example, what about Zanpakuto spirits on Characters/Miscellaneous? Do we list Hyorinmaru Zabimaru and KK once or twice? And if once which one gets linked? Single mention and picture/link for the manga original gets preference for me.

        Loading editor
    • EU Button
      EU Button
      EU Button
      EU Button

      How's this?

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      Its almost impossible to distinguish it at the size needed for the infobox isnt it? And I know what Im looking at, others will just see a red and white dot. Thats unfortunate. Anyway its more attention grabbing despite that just because of the colour. Should we use that or the one I made either with the novel colour scheme or the red? Or something else altogether?

        Loading editor
    • On a whim, I tried removing the red circle part - I think that helps visibility a lot, what about you?

        Loading editor
    • Yyp

      Better, but its still hard to tell what it is. Might be better to forget about the skull and fill the whole flame in as red instead. Nobody's gonna be able to tell thats a skull at the smaller size anyway. Thats my opinion on it anyway.

        Loading editor
    • Alright, done.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kubos to this message
You've given this message Kubos!
See who gave Kubos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.