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This is the talk page for the "Gotei 13" article.
It says in the outline that Yamamoto founded the Gotei 13.. Where is the source? Toshi04 02:44, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
- Bleach book of SOULs page 98. As it so happens, we have a copy of Book of SOULs page 98 on file. The relevant section is the side note attached to the First Division. Which reads, "First Company Captain Genryusai Shigenkuni Yamamoto is the founder and Captain-General of the Thirteen Companies". Tinni (Talk) 02:49, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry for bumping, but I'm pretty sure this is a mistranslation. The Japanese original states the following.
- 一番隊隊長山本元柳斎 重國が十三隊を統括する総隊長も兼任。 Literally translated: Captain of the First Division, Yamamoto Genryuusai Shigekuni, also holds the position of Captain-Commander, supervising the Gotei 13. (Granted, 統括 can also mean 'unification', but that translation is inappropriate given the fact that する is present tense) Other than that, there is no word in that sentence that comes even close to "foundation".
- Can we discuss this here, or does it need to move to the Translator's Corner? Mapar007 (talk) 21:41, January 24, 2012 (UTC)
- Elaborating on my previous comment:
- The source of confusion might also be the following: "ichibantaitaichou" being misread as "the first captain", hence founder. Mapar007 (talk) 22:08, January 24, 2012 (UTC)
Well then it sounds like you should have issue with how Viz translates rather then stating its wrong. We are an English based wiki in this instance the information comes from the databook itself. This the information we are presented with. Though a better question is why do you have issue with whether he created the gotei 13 or not? Also the majority of people who come here and actually have the book are gonna jump to the piton of stating that this is wrong based on the point of what they can read with their own eyes.--Salubri (Talk) 23:25, January 24, 2012 (UTC)
- I take issue with this point because there's no Kubo source stating that Yamamoto is the founder. The original text of the Souls databook states nothing of the sort, and I'm sure you will agree that a mistranslation is not a proper source. "The databook itself" should always refer to the original book, not the translation, which is by definition inferior. Would you like me to get a second opinion in the Translator's Corner or from other Japanese-speaking people I know? I'll do that if you want me to. (if you don't speak Japanese you might want to try to put each of those words through a dictionary, you'll see that none of them gets close to "founder").
- I agree with your point about being able to see with your own eyes, but in the case of mistranslations, I beg to differ.Mapar007 (talk) 07:33, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm sorry for being such a persistent asshole, but I've found a part of the manga contradicting the thesis that Yamamoto is the founder of the Gotei 13. In chapter 223 he says the following: "The location of the Ouken is a fact passed on verbally from Captain Commander to Captain Commander in the Gotei 13", implying that there were others before him. I think that constitutes enough evidence against that claim. Mapar007 (talk) 21:44, January 25, 2012 (UTC)
Before anyone goes reverting Cattamer edits, I just wanted to that I doubled checked and the flower information comes from Bleach Bootleg. So do not revert! If there is a discrepancy between SOULs and Bootlegs, Bootlegs wins since it was published later. Tinni (Talk) 11:35, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
My apologies, but I don't know how to make a title. Anyway, it's totally the messenger squad. I read it while re-reading the Soul Society arc. There's no way I'm making it up, because Google is peppered with people saying the same thing. But I'm having difficulty finding the chapter in question. Does anyone else have any helpful information on this?Neo Bahamut (talk) 09:51, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
- This has been discussed before in the archive - that is the 5th unit of the Onmitsukidō, not the 5th Division of the Gotei 13. This is confirmed in the Bleach Official Character Book Souls, page 99. ~~Ууp <talk> 11:05, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
- Ah, that would explain the confusion.Neo Bahamut (talk) 12:12, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
Can we have some consistency please. The seated officer table has former member list but the captain and lieutenant table doesn't have a former column. Can we either remove the former seated officer table or find a way to add former captain and former lieutenant to the captain and lieutenants table. My vote is to remove the former column from the seated officers table. Tinni (Talk) 10:11, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
- I know I was gonna do that but I couldn't find anything to go with the table that would make up for the removal of the former listing. The point was to put the page chats in some form of organization highlighting the current status and not dwelling on past members especially since they can be found in greater detail on their respective division pages. Ill find some way to work it out.--Salubri (Talk) 13:46, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
Hi. So I was just wondering about the line below;
"Lieutenant Rangiku Matsumoto of the 10th Division wears a top that is deliberately loose and hangs open to reveal her ample bosom. She also wears a pink scarf (or stole), and wears her lieutenant's badge around her waist with her sash, tied in a bow."
I was going to delete the "(or stole)" because we don't know if Matsumoto actually stole it, but then I realized, it could have a different meaning. It sounds very weird in the sentence, but no one has changed it for a while. Would "stole" mean to steal the item, or is it another term for a scarf?
In the history section it says that little is known about it except that Yamamoto Genryuusai founded it. But since he said that he's been the Captain-Commander for over a 1000 years, can't we add 'over a 1000 years ago' to that? --ZashikiWarashi (talk) 15:10, August 1, 2011 (UTC)
No because thats speculation for a number of reasons. First We dont know that Yamamoto was the first and only captain-Commander. Secondly He himself is over 2000 years old. Thirdly he created the shino academy over 2000 years ago. Its very unlikely you have a school to train for a job if the job dosent exist yet. Fourth it doesn't go into detail of the founding. It could me the modern incarnation of the Gotei 13 or something of that nature. There really just isnt enough information to state anything specific.--Salubri (Talk) 18:25, August 1, 2011 (UTC)
I'd say yes.--
A list of captains
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Greetings, a year or so ago, there was a list of the divisions which included a list of active captains and lieutenants. This list was removed from this article, and I think it should be re-added. To my knowledge, there is no list of current captains and lieutenants in the mainspace. There is a template and category, but that's not good enough. Such a list is VERY relevant to this article and should be re-added. Real articles about real armies include division lists with their commanders. ie. 
I believe this should be done here as well. If I were a new Bleach watcher/reader and I came here looking for info, I would find such a list WAY more useful than the list of customized uniforms which is included. And, in fact, when I was a new reader/watcher, I did come here looking for such a list and I did find it useful.
If the list is not re-added here, then at the very least a proper captains article with all current and former captains should be included. The category that exists now is not good enough. -- Brian McClure (talk) 21:57, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
- First Division, Second Division, Third Division, Fourth Division, Fifth Division, Sixth Division, Seventh Division, Eighth Division, Ninth Division, Tenth Division, Eleventh Division, Twelfth Division, Thirteenth Division. You were already told no.--
Under #Organization, Seated Officers: This unreferenced article states that "only one person can hold a senior officer rank". However, both the 1st and 9th divisions have two lieutenants, and the 13th division has two third seats. Perhaps it's better to say that "the norm is...", or "it's preferred that...", since the practice is not enforced? Stefan (Shikai - "Rust & Shatter") (talk) 13:46, May 21, 2014 (UTC)