I wanted to ask about Gochūtekkan's translation. Even though it's technically accurate, the "kan" (貫) in the name is usually translated as "weight" these days, isn't it?
The use of kan as a unit of currency is obsolete, but its obsolescence as a weight, even after its replacement (and even forbiddance!) post-adoption of the metric system, seems to vacillate--though yes, it seems it can just be used in an informal meaning "weight". The Kanji 貫 can also mean "pierce, shoot through" or "brace"; but given the actual use of Gochū Tekkan in the series, I suppose a better trans. would be "five-pillar[ed] iron weights". Adam Restling (talk) 19:23, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
Zanpakutō (names, release calls, etc.)
Still need the kanji for this but these are the terms used in the most recent chapter 564.
- Souou Zabimaru
- Zaga Teppou
These are all the ones that need translations.--
I assume that I would be like that:
- 双王・蛇狒丸, Sōō Zabimaru, Twin Kings of Snake Tail
- 大蛇王, Orochiō, King of Serpents
- 蛇牙・鉄砲, Jaga/Zaga Teppō, Snake Fang Gun/Iron Cannon
Za comes from Zabimaru, which is seen as "Serpent". As for ga we have the character 牙, which can be read as "kiba" - fang. That gives us Zaga Teppō - Serpent Fang Cannon. --Black Butler94 (talk) 18:05, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
- I'm here with the actual Kanji, now that the raw is out. Here's what I've gathered:
- Sōō Zabimaru: 双王蛇尾丸
- Hihiō: 狒々王
- Orochiō: オロチ王 (I'm not kidding, the raws have Katakana for this one....)
- Zaga Teppō: 蛇牙鉄炮
- From what the raws seem to claim, "Hihiō" is actually 狒々王 instead of 狒狒王, but Jisho's just telling me that the 々 means a repeated Kanji. Anyway, here's what I've got. I leave this to the actual members of the Translation Corner to finish.
Oh thanks for confirmation, I see there was a little difference between my speculations and official You gave here. And with 狒狒王 or 狒々王 is as You say, there is no difference, because 々 repeats kanji before it. But I'm surprised that Kubo gave kata for Orochi instead of Kanji O.o. Thanks for confirmation Mad6 (talk) 11:48, January 18, 2014 (UTC)
- Heh, even better, older raws use 狒狒王, while 564 uses 狒々王, but since there's technically no difference, whatever. I just updated the page to have the most recently used Kanji.
Schiffy has it right: Sōō Zabimaru (双王蛇尾丸 "twin king Zabimaru ('snake tail')"); Hihiō (狒々王 "baboon king")--indeed with the Kanji doubler 々 instead of just "classic" 狒 again for some reason; Orochiō (オロチ王 "great snake king")--indeed with only katakana for some reason, but doubtless a reference to Yamata no Orochi; and Zaga Teppō (蛇牙鉄炮 "snake fang iron gun")--with, as cited above, the unusual (< ? archaic) reading za for ja "snake" also found in Zabimaru itself. Note that the element 炮 itself means "cannon" or "gun"; teppō (lit. "iron gun/cannon") is apparently specifically "gun", I guess as a haphazard distinction from other/previous types of "cannons" which might've been more like a cruder howitzer or catapult. Adam Restling (talk) 19:44, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
Okay, guys - time to test Rukia's Bankai name. It's Hakka no Togame, and I assume it's written 白化の咎め, meaning White Guilt.
I think also it would be like that but 白化 (Hakka) actually translates to a bleaching, whitening or even chlorosis. The second part - 咎め (Togame) it can mean guilt as You said, but it can also translate as rebuke, so wait till Adam will got the raw's and confirm a valid version Mad6 (talk) 15:38, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
I assume that 'White Mist' would be 白霞 (Hakka), and for 'Sentence' I don't know how to link Togame with sentence, so I will leave to Adam confimation of valid translation. Mad6 (talk) 10:39, February 20, 2014 (UTC)
- Raw is now officially out. The official Kanji of Hakka no Togame seems to be "白霞罸", with no Hiragana in the actual name, just along the side because of WSJ being useful like that with their chapters. Regardless, I leave this here for an official translation.
- Intresting that like Rukia's Shikai, her Bankai has too a 'no' possessive particle. First two Kanji: '白霞' (Hakka) translates as White Haze/Mist or Blurred White, but curiously, i found that 'Hakka' is also a Given Japanese Name according to Lord Tangorin. The last one: '罸' (Batsu, Bachi, Hatsu) Translates as Sentence, Punishment or like a (Death) Penalty.
Linking all together combines into : 白霞罸 (Hakka no Togame) White Haze/Mist or Blurred White Sentence/Punishment/Penalty. Mad6 (talk) 14:30, February 22, 2014 (UTC)
- Intresting that like Rukia's Shikai, her Bankai has too a 'no' possessive particle. First two Kanji: '白霞' (Hakka) translates as White Haze/Mist or Blurred White, but curiously, i found that 'Hakka' is also a Given Japanese Name according to Lord Tangorin. The last one: '罸' (Batsu, Bachi, Hatsu) Translates as Sentence, Punishment or like a (Death) Penalty.
Is there a way of reading "罸" as "Togame" apart from Rukia's Bankai? I mean, "Togame" is not on the readings for that kanji. I would really like to know why Kubo gave it that reading. --Masterjxf (talk) 00:29, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
- Thanks to everyone for being on top of the raws and posting the pics for quick reference. From the one of said pics posted above, it does seem that Hakka no Togame has, as its Kanji, 白霞罸; and, given both the specific character(s) used and the ch. title of its introduction, I'd translate it as "censure of the white haze".
- I have my doubts that 罸 is elsewhere used, beyond here, with the intention it be read togame "rebuke, reproach, censure"; by doing so here, giving it the reading normally "reserved" for 咎(め), I think Kubo's just doing that ol' nuancing/blending he's so fond of--i.e. nuancing the idea of "censure" (its reading) with the idea of it being a punishing reproof (its Kanji). He's done so many times in the past--e.g. didn't he do so, say, with Kamishini no Yari, where the part read shini "dying" was actually written with the Kanji for "kill" (usu. satsu, setsu, korosu) or something?
- Perhaps the fact of this blending/nuance can be noted in some kind of quick trivia blurb or something? Adam Restling (talk) 13:35, March 3, 2014 (UTC)
Character and element (e.g. devices) names
So, the existing translation for chapter 36 lists the eponymous item as Hollow Bait in the speech bubble that it's mentioned in. However, I looked at the raw and found that the speech bubble in question has quite a few more kana/kanji than I would expect for two words. Adam, if you could take a look at the raw in question and determine what it should really be rendered as, that'd be great.--Xilinoc (talk) 04:44, January 23, 2014 (UTC)
Sorry to everyone for my long absences (which will hopefully now be less long): a combo of holidayngover, shifting schedules at work, weather trouble, and my computer trying to fail ( >:( :( :( ) have been bombarding me.
The term Ishida uses--apparently more a description than a technique name--is 対虚（ホロウ)用の撒き餌 tai-Horōyou no makie "scatter-bait for use against Hollows"--that is, a kind of bait one scatters around to lure them, not unlike "ground bait" or feed scattered for chickens at farms.
Omeada Clan Names
I've got a draft page done up for the Omeada clan's various members, but I wanted confirmation on the spellings of their names (brown boxes in the pic to the right). Their names are listed as Mareka (mother), Marejirōsanrō (brother), Maremi (sister), but I've no idea who the scan group was so I wanted to double check that. Also, if anyone could post the kanji for them and Mareyo that would be great, as while I know what they are, I cannot type it out. ~~Ууp <talk> 22:41, January 26, 2014 (UTC)
As you can see, all of their names begin with 希 mare "rare, unusual, exceptional". Mother Mareka is 希華 "rare flowering/lustre"; older sister Maremi is 希美 "rare beauty"; his younger brother's name is actually Marejirōsaburō, 希次郎三郎 "rare follower, a son, the third, a son", apparently, using the special reading -sabu/-zabu of the character for "three" (三)--usu., as here, referring to order of children (-saburō "the third, a son")--intentionally ridiculous and redundant; and Mareyo is 希代 "rare age/era/world". Adam Restling (talk) 11:32, February 4, 2014 (UTC)
Call me a fool of a Took, but I only accidentally stumbled upon this interesting bit of data recently: according to my Spanish dictionaries, grillo, "cricket", can also (though apparently only [?] in the plural, grillos) mean "fetters, shackles". Or, rather, these seem to be homophones, the insect name coming from Latin gryllus, while the other word, from French grille "grate, grid", seemingly has its ultimate source in Latin crāticula, "grill, grating, gridiron". Since the underlying Kanji of Grillar Grillo include one meaning "shackle(s), fetter(s)", I thought I'd bring this discovery up, though I'm unsure as-of-yet how to articulate/frame its possible inclusion on the page proper. Adam Restling (talk) 18:35, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
Zanpakutō (names, release calls, etc.)
On Yhwach someone copied the wrong katakana for the reading of Heilig Pfeil's Japanese name. It should be ハイリッヒ・プファイル Hairihhi Pufairu but someone wrote ハイリッヒ・ブファイル Hairihhi Bufairu and apparently this is contentious despite the fact that the Japanese pronunciation of other instances of the German word "Pfeil" is Pufairu.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 11:03, November 4, 2013 (UTC)
I think this is because, in the early Millennial Blood War chs.--such as 508 "烈火の如" (Rekkano Gotoshi)--the raw seems to use Bufairu (ブファイル). I haven't tracked--and can't recall--all the subsequent uses of Heilig Pfeil since, so I haven't discovered whether this has been corrected to *Pufairu in the volume-release forms and later chs. But you're right, it should be Pufairu, if a fidelity to the German form it means to adapt is properly pursued.
- Only mentions of heilig pfeil I've found are in Ch 490 page 9 & Ch 508 page 11. My raws are too blurry to distinguish プ and ブ... — talk 13:33, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
Obviously we need some raws here.--
- Kinshara Butōdan (金沙羅舞踏団) — Golden Sal Tree Dancing Troupe? — talk 13:40, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
While looking over episode 340 for totally not nefarious purposes, I found something...odd. On Yushima's page, we have the kanji and translation as Sumitsukigasa (墨月暈, Ink Moon Halo), but on that page, it's listed as Sumitsukigasa (墨月牙鎖, Fanged-Chain, Moon Ink). Now, I know that it's from the anime and therefore likely doesn't have established, written-out kanji for us to see, but could someone decide which one would be proper/more likely?--Xilinoc (talk) 21:59, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
According to the Japanese Wiki--which seems like the best source available for these non-canon (and so rawless) elements--the first one seems to be correct, 墨月暈 "ink (black) moon halo". Dunno where the form with "fang(ed) chain" came from, aside from maybe someone playing the homophony game + channeling [Getsu]ga ([月]牙) Tenshō and Tensa Zangetsu. Adam Restling (talk) 11:52, December 22, 2013 (UTC)
General/Other translation issues (e.g. conjugation/miscellanea)
"no Jōmon" barriers
So, from the raws I've been using, which have all the kana we'll ever need from the first forty six volumes, I noticed some slight romanization errors in the group of barriers Hachigen used against Barragan. The errors I noticed are as follows:
- Ryubi no Jōmon - should be Ryūbi no Jōmon
- Koko no Jōmon - should be Kokō no Jōmon
- Kikai no Jōmon - should be Kigai no Jōmon
- Hoyoku no Jōmon - should be Hōyoku no Jōmon
- Shiji no Saimon - should be Shijū no Saimon
- Figured I'd drop them off here before I start any mass page moving.
Volume 61 Poem
Watashi ga / sekai ni ha kiken ga michite iru to shinji
sono kiken kara omae wo mamoritai to negau no ha
watashi no naka ni sono kiken to dōshitsu no shōdō ga aru kara ni / hoka naranai
which I think is supposed to be translated something like this:
"I / believing the world to be full of danger
have, as my wish, that I want to protect you from that danger,
because, within me, is an urge alike to that danger, / I cannot be otherwise"
I use the " / "s to mark the places where the preceding and succeeding text is divided by more than a normal space/division.
Aside from the usual confusion and trickiness of poems and Japanese, the main uncertainties for me are the elements kara ni and hoka naranai. The former would seem to combine kara "from, since" with the adverbializing particle ni, which seems to suggest that it's meant as a "because" linked to the final clause; but according to my dictionary, kara ni means "as soon as, no sooner than", so ???. Hoka naranai, that final clause I mentioned, would seem to mean something like "not (be) otherwise", from hoka "other" + naranai, presumably the negative form of naru "be(come), be of (the nature of)".
Despite these questions, my version could make sense, as "Zangetsu" (a.k.a. Yhwach the Friendly Ghost XD) saying "I wanted to protect you [Ichigo] from danger, because--and although--I find an urge [a Quincy's anti-Shinigami sentiment] within myself just like that danger; I can't do otherwise because this urge to protect is just as primal as the urge to endanger you"--and also the fact that even "Zangetsu" himself is a danger makes him even more determined to protect Ichigo. It would be no shock to find "Yhwach" being so schizophrenic. Adam Restling (talk) 08:22, December 18, 2013 (UTC)
Mukyū Shunkō (無窮瞬閧) means "tireless Shunkō"--that is, "tireless flash war-cry". 無窮 itself could be translated, more broadly, as "infinite, limitless", but the above is a bit more precise (if idiomatic) trans.--無 - 窮 "not - be destitute, suffer"--and those broader terms are, conversely, more precisely represented by words like mugen, kagirinai, etc. Adam Restling (talk) 08:36, December 18, 2013 (UTC)
Kon being an Under-Pod?
Chapter 15, page 10.. Rukia mentions Kon being an Under-Pod type of Mod Soul. I'll put the raw here, what does it say about it on the panel where Kon jumps of the window? Can someone provide the correct translation, in order to mention it in the pages of Kon and Mod Soul? Kyoraku08 (talk) 17:10, December 6, 2013 (UTC)
It looks like she's saying that Kon "looks like a leg-function-specialized 'Underpod'-type".
While looking through some older volume articles, I noticed that Chapter 130 in BEGINNING OF THE DEATH OF TOMORROW was originally released with a set of kanji for the name. Upon looking in the reference, it turns out we never actually got a translation for those kanji, so if someone could translate "超絶技巧練習曲 op.2[a tempo]", that'd be great.--Xilinoc (talk) 23:41, December 7, 2013 (UTC)
After looking on both the technique page and Urahara's own page, I've found that they possess two different translations for the above technique: Urahara's page has it rendered as "Crimson Princess That Plays with Fire, Strung Together like Rosary Beads", while the technique page has it rendered as "Fire-Playing, Crimson Princess, Beaded Mesh". The kanji for this technique is 火遊 紅姫 数珠繋, so if someone could give a definitive translation, that would be appreciated.--Xilinoc (talk) 04:19, December 10, 2013 (UTC)
I'd keep the 2nd one--or, rather, write it without the strange commas--and not just because it's the one I provided (? I think) XD; because that seems to be what the technique does, how its name is written (not having to switch things around for better cadence in English). The 1st one is interesting, but prosy (some kind of phrase instead of a term) and takes a few too many liberties so-doing in my opinion--for example, I translate Ryūjinjakka as "flowing blade-like flame" because the name actually includes the element jaku "like, similar (to)" (in ~jakka), but there's naught of that in Hiasobi Benihime Juzutsunagi. And while 数珠 is often translated "rosary", I thought that was an oddly Western-sounding trans., so I went with a more lit. "(kind of) bead(s)"; and the meaning of tsunagi "tie(s), knot(s)", I put as "mesh" (< "a bunch of tied links").
If tweaks are desired to be made based on the additional information etc I've included above, I guess they can be hammered out further in the Corner. Adam Restling (talk) 09:32, December 18, 2013 (UTC)
This is a bit more complicated than the above. In addition to having different translations for Tres Cifras, Las Noches and Privaron Espada appears to have different kanji for it as well: Las Noches has it listed as Tres Cifras (三桁の巣 (トレス・シフラス), Toresu Shifurasu; Spanish for "Three Figures", Japanese for "Nest of Three Digits") while the Privaron Espada subsection has it listed as Tres Cifras (３ケタ (トレス・シフラス), toresu shifurasu; Japanese for "Three-digit", Spanish for "Three Digits"), which is made even more confusing by the fact that Zhenyoq added it, presumably from one of his raws. So, if some sort of consensus could be reached on the matter, I'd greatly appreciate it.--Xilinoc (talk) 04:19, December 10, 2013 (UTC)
- In chapter 250 Gin calls the place〝３ケタ〟（トレス・シフラス） の巣, "Tres Cifras' Nest" (３ケタ = 三桁). Is it stated anywhere that Tres Cifras is the name of the place, not another name for Privaron Espada?
- (Or maybe kanji was changed in subsequent chapters?)
- By the way, "Three Figures" is kinda Kubo's translation (Ch250 "Five Ways To Three Figures"). — talk 14:28, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
The Japanese Wiki seems only to have the form 3ケタ （トレス・シフラス）; Googling "三桁の巣 (トレス・シフラス)" and variants turns up several results, but it makes me wonder if someone just mistook/misinterpreted what Ichimaru was saying in ch. 250, and it was endlessly copied across the web (as often happens, esp. with Wiki data) without further thought to its veracity. Another apparent case in point is that Zhenyoq looks to be right: according to the Japanese Wiki, Tres Cifras (3ケタ （トレス・シフラス）) is a nickname by which the Privaron Espada are also called, rather than the name of their dwelling place. This dwelling is then, it seems, what Ichimaru informally refers to as "the nest of the 'Tres Cifras' ".
Tōsen, in relating that "The 'three-digit number' is a token of 'divestment'. It signifies one divested of their rank. That is, holders of three-digit numbers are, all, 'Privaron Espada'.", uses 3/三桁 "three-digit" only in the phrases "three-digit number(s)" (3/三桁の数字) in ch. 250.
More Quincy stuff
I keep finding Quincy-related things to be translated, it's like some sort of helpful curse.
Anyhow, I've found 3 more terms that I'd like to be translated properly. The first of these terms is Reishi Armor, which is mentioned here in the leftmost speech bubble of the all-black panel and appears to simply be kanji with kana clarifying its pronunciation, though an "official" translation would be nice for something like this. The second is the Kaiser Gesang, which I am legitimately surprised we did not ask for earlier. Yhwach mentions it on the bottom left panel here, and it appears to be the kanji/kana within the half-brackets. I'm betting there's a German and Japanese meaning to this one as well. The third is anime-exclusive, but has conflicting translations on the site: the Quincy Bangle. Its kanji (don't know where it was gotten from) is 装身具 (Sōshingu) and translated on the Quincy page as "Accessory", yet is translated on its own page as...well...the Quincy Bangle, so an "official" translation would be very helpful. I suppose that while we're at it, a look-over for "Soul-Synthesized Silver" (霊化銀, Reika Gin) and "Soul-Synthesized Glass" (霊化硝子, Reika Gurasu) would be beneficial, so make that 5 terms.
I realize now that the above is probably very messy, so here's a much tidier list of the translations I'm requesting:
- Reishi Armor (kanji and kana can be found here in the leftmost text bubble of the completely black panel)
- Kaiser Gesang (kanji and kana can be found here on the bottom left panel)
- Quincy Bangle (装身具, Sōshingu)
- Soul-Synthesized Silver (霊化銀, Reika Gin)
- Soul-Synthesized Glass (霊化硝子, Reika Gurasu)
Thanks some more for the links etc.
霊子兵装 (reishi heisō) are the Kanji for "reishi war-garb" (not the common word for "armor", yoroi), which may be just a descriptive term rather than a "name" proper.
Kaiser Gesang (聖帝頌歌 (カイザー・ゲザング) Kaizā Gezangu), Japanese for "praise-song of the sacred emperor", German for "emperor song".
Sōshingu (装身具) is just a commonplace word for "accessory(/ies), (body) ornament(s)"--broken down, the Kanji mean something like "body-dressing element(s)"; it doesn't have anything to do with Quincy inclusively. Does anyone have a ch. link/reference to a term *Quincy Bangle?
Whelp, 霊化銀 (Reika gin) and 霊化硝子 (Reika garasu, not gurasu) do mean "soul-made silver" and "soul-made glass" respectively--although you could just as accurately translate the first part of both compounds as " 'soulified' " or " 'spiritualized' ". Adam Restling (talk) 10:53, December 18, 2013 (UTC)
Mask's Glorious Techniques
So, we've gotten 3 new techniques out of Mask in chapter 561, and I'd like some verification on their names.
- First up is Star Eagle Kick, whose kana can be found here.
- Next up is Star Headbutt, whose kana can be found here.
- Finally, we have the glorious Star Flash, whose kana can be found here.
- Star Eagle Kick (スター・イーグルキック, Sutā Īgurukikku)
- Star Headbutt (スター・ヘッドバット, Sutā Heddobatto)
- Star Flash (スター・フラッシュ, Sutā Furasshu) — talk 09:25, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
- Star Rocket Headbutt (スター・ロケット・ヘッドバット, Sutā Roketto Heddobatto)
- Star Killer Punch (スター殺人パンチ, Sutā Satsujin Panchi) — or we do not translate Japanese words?
- — talk 16:10, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
The kana which Zhenyoq provided above for the first three techniques seem all good. I don't have the raws for 562 yet, but pretty reliable translators like BadKarma *seem* to support the kana/Kanji for the last two, also.
Rose's Artsy-Fartsy Techniques
Accompanying Rose's Bankai, we've got three new techniques for him as well, with romanized names and underlying kanji.
- First up is Sea Drift, whose kana and kanji can be found here.
- Next up is Prometheus, whose kana and kanji can be found here.
- Finally, we have Ein Heldenleben, whose kana and kanji can be found here.
Thanks again for the links etc.
Sea Drift (海流 (シー ・ ドリフト) Shī Dorifuto); Kanji mean the same (specifically, in addition to "course, current", 流 can mean "flow, drift, float(ing)", and even "style" (< "course of action")).
Prometheus (火山の使者 (プロメテウス) Purometeusu): the name, of course, references the famed Titan of Greek mythology; the Kanji mean "envoy of the volcano"--presumably a weird reference to his bringing the gift of fire to Man, or a confusion of him with Hephaestus/Vulcan.
Ein Heldenleben (英雄の生涯 (アイン ・ ヘルデンレーベン) Ain Herudenrēben); both mean about the same--"hero's life"--although the German adds ein "one; a, an", and 生涯 is generally a more specific "(entire) life, lifetime, lifespan" (< "life" + "horizon, shore"). Adam Restling (talk) 07:32, December 18, 2013 (UTC)
While looking through some volume raws, I found something interesting. It seems that though Dordoni's favorite word, Niño, is listed as having the underlying kanji of 坊や, his first usage of the word has different underlying kanji: I'm no good at posting kana/kanji, so here's a link for proof, with the term in question being in the bottom-left speech bubble of the second panel. If someone could translate that and give a verdict on which one we should use, that'd be great.--Xilinoc (talk) 19:05, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Looks to me like the speech bubble in question isn't even using Kanji, it just says ほうや (hōya) in Hiragana.....
- It's ぼうや (bōya) and it's just 坊や written with kana. — talk 09:16, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
Looks like it's "slaughter mode" (殺戮状態 satsuriku jōtai), or "slaughter state"; "genocide" is actually 大量虐殺 tairyōgyakusatsu ("grand-scale oppressive killing"), or 大虐殺 daigyakusatsu ("grand oppressive killing"). Adam Restling (talk) 11:33, December 21, 2013 (UTC)
Is this correct?
Was checking this: http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Gikon#Soul_Candy and there we can see this: Ginnosukem (ギンノスケ). I don't know much about japanese, but from my understanding the kana means either "Gin'nosuke" or "Ginnosuke". For it to be Ginnosukem, there would have to be another kana for the sound "mu" so that we would have something like "Ginnosukemu" and, therefore, the romanized version "Ginnosukem."
According to the Japanese Wiki (I've not access to the old raws right now), it is Ginnosuke (ギンノスケ), not *Ginnosukem--some accidental typo because k is close to m on the keyboard, or maybe accidentally taken from the following, Momōne??? Adam Restling (talk) 00:45, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
Earthbound Spirits and Obsessed Spirits
Chapter 28, page 12.. Rukia talks about the Jibakurei/Earthbound Spirits and another kind of spirits similar to them that we never referenced here on wikia: Obsessed Spirits. I'll put the raw here, what does it say about both types in top three panels? Kyoraku08 (talk) 18:24, December 22, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, from what Rukia seems to be saying:
"Those with heart-remnants have the inga no kusari utterly arrested by such a target. If a heart-remnant is by a person, it becomes, namely, a tsukirei (憑き霊); if a heart-remnant is by a plot of ground, it becomes, namely, a jibakurei."
The actual root of the word used, tsuki, comes from the verb tsuku, which means "cling to, possess, haunt". I'd probably translate it as "possessive soul" (with jibakurei, of course, being "earthbound soul")--very dybbuk-like.
Star Killer Punch
So, it would seem that the most fabulous of Mask's techniques isn't just romanized English - Star Killer Punch (スター殺人パンチ, Sutā Satsujin Panchi) appears to have kanji in the middle of it, and I spy 人, which I believe is "man/human/person/" in there. Cnet translated it as Star Mankiller Punch, but I'd appreciate it if you could have a look at it, Adam.--Xilinoc (talk) 01:34, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
- I think Cnet rendered the technique name this way to save the original wordplay ("Can’t your Mankiller Punch kill a Shinigami?" ("人" was highlighted there)). 殺人 is literally "murder", it's composed of 殺 to kill and 人 a man/human/person. — talk 03:58, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
Zhenyoq is correct: satsujin is "murder" (more specifically, I guess, "homicide"--although murder is, in its immediate sense, already the killing of a human being etc.).
However, since this is a case where there's apparently a conspicuously Japanese term amidst the English ones, I'd leave the term alone--that is, a page with it should go something like as follows: "Star Satsujin Punch (スター殺人パンチ Sutā Satsujin Panchi, "star murder punch")". Adam Restling (talk) 08:20, December 24, 2013 (UTC)
New one... Chapter 51, page 1, first panel... Either Renji or Byakuya mentions a Compass Scroll (?), which seems to be that paper device Rukia used on the first chapter when she was searching for Fishbone D. It seems to work pretty much like a Denreishinki, receiving orders and giving the Shinigami the direction of his target, which is what this page shows them using it for.
By the way Adam, I have these early BLEACH chapters you talked about and am searching for terms like these. If you know of something that needs the raws for you guys to translate go ahead and ask me. Early raws are hard to find these days.. By the way, thanks for all the translations you've done on stuff I put here :) Kyoraku08 (talk) 09:45, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
It looks like the (not common, so... Kubo-invented?) term used is zajiku (座軸), which means something like "set axis": 座 "seat; position, setting, place" (< "where one is seated") + 軸 "axis, pivot, stem, stalk". While 軸 is also used as a counter for book scrolls--or to signify a "roller" of scrolls--when attached to 座 (which doesn't mean "scroll"), it seems to refer more to a lock or bead on Rukia's position... or so it seems. Not precisely sure. Specifically, it seems to go like this:
RENJI: The set axis... ?
BYAKUYA: It's undetermined.
RENJI: He~y... Then where are we gonna get blasted toward?
Luckily, I got most of the older chapters before they disappeared; most of the gaps in my collection are in later ones (!). But I always appreciate somebody putting up a pic of the page with the term/text in question, as it saves me thumbing through hundreds of pages on my own. That's the chief reason (other than not combing through all this Wiki's pages) why I've missed a lot of this stuff: with so many installments, I really need the ch. (and would love the pg.) numbers of where I can find these to help narrow it down XD.
Kūkaku Training Hall
In chapter 518, Kūkaku mentioned a training hall named after herself where Ganju and the Fullbringers are apparently training. Cnet has it translated as Great Kūkaku Training Hall, but an "official" rendering would be appreciated. The kanji can be found here in the speech bubble in the lower right-hand corner. Thanks in advance.--Xilinoc (talk) 22:32, December 24, 2013 (UTC)
It seems to be Dai Kūkaku Renbudō (大空鶴練武堂). Neither renbu nor budō seem to be a common word (with these Kanji), but the Kanji do mean the "Great Kūkaku Training Hall"--more specifically, it seems, "training (ren)-for-war (bu) hall (dō); and the fact that it's Dai Kūkaku Renbudō and not *Kūkaku Dairenbudō suggests that it's Kūkaku who's great (and so honored in the name), not the hall. XD Adam Restling (talk) 05:46, December 25, 2013 (UTC)
While looking through Cnet's old translations, I found something that (surprise surprise!) contradicts something on the site. Currently, we've got the translation of Chapter 374's all-kanji title listed as "Gray Wolves, Red Blood, Black Clothes, White Bones", but Cnet's got it as "Grey Wolves, Crimson Blood, Black Garments, White Bones". I realize it's not the most important of issues, but does it come down to a matter of rendering preference, or something else? Here's the kanji for reference:
I suppose that, ultimately, it's a little bit in the [mind's] eye of the beholder: there's always been a laxness to what color, "exactly", a color's name refers to, especially once you start getting into specific tint. Is azure dark blue (like I think its namesake, lapis lazuli, is), or is it the light blue of the sky? Is chocolate the dark brown one might usu. associate with its namesake, or that brown enriched with a kind of velvet red, as other kinds of chocolate are?
It's tough. And other issues maybe worth noting are that 灰 is lit. "ash(es)", although it's the basis of names for "grey", like haiiro ("ash-hue(d)"); and how 白 "white" is also sometimes rendered "blank" or "clear"--but white is not the same as the translucent or utter lack of color we think of as "clear". Plus 衣 is just a general word for "clothing, (outer) garment", so the choice of clothes, garment(s), garb or etc is more of an aesthetic one, as all are correct.
In summation, I think sticking with the simpler term--but also acknowledging the context that it refers to Starrk in playing Irooni--can be our guide. Thus: "Grey Wolf ・ Red Blood ・ Black Clothes ・ White Bone", as I said, assuming (since Irooni) that "ash" is an archaized, informal use for "grey", and using "clothes" just because I like its cadence versus disyllabic garment(s) (garb would also be okay). I also use singular bone because it could also be, informally, a collective plural (e.g. as in a phrase nothing but bone). Adam Restling (talk) 20:05, January 20, 2014 (UTC)
There's something that's been bugging me about this episode's translated title: the content of the episode itself doesn't reflect it AT ALL. Now, I know Pierrot is prone to dramatization in their episode titles, but I think something's off with the rendering of this one. Adam, if you could take a crack at rendering the kanji 怒りの白哉！朽木家崩壊 (with romanji of "Ikari no Byakuya! Kuchiki-ka hōkai"), that'd be great.--Xilinoc (talk) 02:03, December 30, 2013 (UTC)
The anime seems fond of using interesting combinations of verbs or deverbative forms, often nominalized or "adjectivized" with the genitive particle no (as here), so we get things like "Sakubō no Urukiora" (more lit. "Ulquiorra of Strategy") "The Strategic Ulquiorra", so it's not always clear what the best-sounding interpretation should be.
Grand Fisher's Lure
I noticed that there's no kanji or kana for Grand Fisher's Lure. Checked the chapter where Rukia talks about it, she does so in those middle panels. Can someone please check them?Kyoraku08 (talk) 17:37, January 7, 2014 (UTC)
In panel 4 (3rd down, right--going in proper order from right to left), word balloon 2, Rukia says something along the lines of:
"While hiding his own form, he causes the lure growing from his head to take a human shape."
The word used is 擬似餌 gijie, which combines "mimic, imitate" + "become, resemble, imitate" + "bait, prey". Giji (擬似) itself is generally used as a noun or prefix "sham, mockery, suspicious (thing)"; and another form read giji, but written with 擬餌 (that is, like the first above, but omitting central 似), is also found in the word 擬餌鉤 gijibari "artificial fly (for fishing), lure" (< "prey-mimicking hook").
Mask's New New Techniques
Since the 563 raw is FINALLY out now, I thought it'd be good to have you guys confirm the technique names and/or simply provide the kana/kanji and whatnot.
- First up is Star Dropkick, the kana of which can be found on the rightmost speech bubble of the second panel here without the space htt p://mangahead.com/index.php/Manga-Raw-Scan/Bleach/Bleach-563-Raw-Scan/06.jpg?action=big&size=original
- Next up is Star Lariat, the kana of which can be found here on the bottom-most speech bubble following the above process because Mangahead is run by meanies htt p://mangahead.com/index.php/Manga-Raw-Scan/Bleach/Bleach-563-Raw-Scan/07.jpg?action=big&size=original
- After that is One Mile Arts, the kana of which can be found here in the upper left-hand speech bubble following the usual process htt p://mangahead.com/index.php/Manga-Raw-Scan/Bleach/Bleach-563-Raw-Scan/09.jpg?action=big&size=original
- Finally, we have Star Flash Super Nova, the kana of which is spread across htt p://mangahead.com/index.php/Manga-Raw-Scan/Bleach/Bleach-563-Raw-Scan/13.jpg?action=big&size=original and htt p://mangahead.com/index.php/Manga-Raw-Scan/Bleach/Bleach-563-Raw-Scan/14.jpg?action=big&size=original as a double page.
- Star Dropkick, スター・ドロップキック, Sutā Doroppu Kikku/Doroppukikku
- Star Lariat, スター・ラリアット, Sutā Rariatto
- One Mile Arts, ワン・マイル・アーツ, Wan Mairu Ātsu
- Star Flash: Supernova, スター・フラッシュ: スーパー・ノヴァ, Sutā Furasshu: Sūpānova/Sūpā Nova
After looking through Mayuri's inventions section, I've realized two of them don't have kanji or romanji listed for reference's sake, so I've gone and found raws of the pages they were mentioned on.
- Data-gathering Bacteria: raw, with term on lower left-most speech bubble.
- Anti-Arrancar Mine: raw, with term on lower left-most speech bubble.
- Data-gathering Bacteria, 監視用の菌, Kanshiyō no Kin, it literally translates as Observation/Surveillance Employed Bacteria.
- Anti-Arrancar Mine, 破面専用の地雷, Arankaru Senyō no Jirai, it literally translates as Arrancar Dedicated Mine.
Thanks to Xil for the direct raw links, and to Mad for doing all the work while I was totally useless XD.
But it looks like Mad got it: 監視用の菌 kanshiyō no kin "monitoring/surveillance-use bacteria" and 破面（アランカル）専用の地雷 Arankaru senyō no jirai "Arrancar-exclusive-use (land) mines"; senyō itself is composed of sen "solely, exclusively" + yō "use", meaning the mines are especially and specifically for use with Arrancar. It's fun that the Japanese here for "(land) mine" is lit. "earth-thunder". Adam Restling (talk) 10:26, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
Remaining SR (or rather Soul Ignition) Techniques
So, after much looking around these vast and untamed internets, I've finally gotten screenshots of the kanji for the techniques that were either 1. Spanish in the English release, or 2. did not have kanji screenshots prior and were thus guessed at. Regarding the latter, you actually got a few of them right, Adam, but some your guess were *horrified gasp* wrong.
OH THE HUMANITY
Anyhow, kanji screenshots down below along with the technique name, translations would be much appreciated.
I've made Barragan's for now, I'll come up with the rest when I'll have more time: Fuego (死の炎閃 (フエゴ), fuego; Spanish for "Fire", Japanese for "Death Flame's Flash") --Black Butler94 (talk) 18:34, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
- Camarada - 魂の同胞 (カマラダ) - Tamashī no Dōhō (Kamarada), Spirit Brethren/Companion. Spanish for Comrade.
- Cortando - 斬裂 (コルタンド) - Zanretsu (Korutando), Tearing Beheading. Spanish for Cutting.
- Requiem - 鎮魂歌 (レクイエム) - Chinkonka (Rekuiemu), literally Requiem.
- Tromba - 魔旋撃 (ツロンバ) - Masengeki (Turonba), Demon Spiraliing Attack. Spanish for Whirlwind.
- Vuello Oscuras - 黒翔撃 (ヴエッロ・オスキュラス) - Kokushōgeki (Vuerro Osukyurasu), Black Soaring Attack. Spanish for Dark Flight.
- Onryūha - 怨流波 - Onryūha, Grudge/Resentment-Style Wave.
- Meisen Hōgeki - 冥旋崩撃 - Meisen Hōgeki, Dark Rotation Crumbling Attack.
- Musō Renbu- 無双連舞 - Musō Renbu/Tsuremai, Matchless Serial Dance/Dance done by Two People.
- Kagehōshi - 影法師 - Kagebōshi, Shadow Figure/Silhouette.
- Enra Gōmetsu - 閻羅拷滅 - Enra Gōmetsu, Torturing Annihilation of Yama/Yanluo.
- Rengoku Renge - ?獄蓮華 - Rengoku Renge, ? Jail/Prison Lotus.
- Banyū Goka - 蛮幽業禍 - Banyū Goka, Barbarian Calamity of Dark Karma.
- Shunsōgeki - 瞬鎗撃 - Shunsōgeki, Instantenous Spear Attack.
I couldn't find some of them but there is I think more than I would expect Me to translate. If anyone knows missing kanji just post a full translated version. Mad6 (talk) 19:57, January 16, 2014 (UTC)
Thanks a great deal for the translations, but I think I'll wait for confirmation on them from Adam; not to discredit your translating skills, but he usually provides a definitive rendering and explanation, and, well, yeah. However, I do appreciate your help nonetheless.--Xilinoc (talk) 22:08, January 16, 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for everyone's thorough work with all the oodles of info and Kanji they did.
... You actually got a few of them right, Adam, but some your guess were *horrified gasp* wrong.
Yep, wild guesses will do that, as I already warned XD. These are tricky, even with the pictures of the attack names furnished and all you guys' hard work, though, because the furigana for their proper katakana spellings still seems to be missing, so all you can do is try to Google and hope that, if they come up at all, these obscure Sino-Japanese fan-sites have it right. Some of my previous (if sometimes erroneous) data for this can be found under the similar topic in archive 12, I think.
Tentatively, though, here's my evaluation (I'll try to note uncertainties where they still *seem* to persist, like w/<*>s before things; & not repeat stuff if it seems right above):
- Camarada (魂の同胞 (*カマラダ) *Kamarada) looks good, Japanese for "soul brethren/compatriots (interestingly, Greek uses similar terms for "brother" to Japanese 同胞, more lit. "same womb/sheath", like kasignetos "born together", adelphos "co-wombed")
- Fuego (死の炎閃 (*フエゴ) *Fuego), Japanese for "death flame flash"
- Cortando (斬裂 (コルタンド) *Korutando), Japanese for "slaying slash", (I translate zan as "slay(ing)" because it seems to mean "cut, kill (esp. w/a sword)" less oft than "beheading", and I thought slay covers that nicely, since it also begins with sl-; it also appears in Zanpakutō, Zangetsu, etc.)
- Réquiem (鎮魂歌 (*レクイェム) *Rekuyemu), Japanese and Spanish for "requiem" (鎮魂歌 is more lit. "soul-soothing/quieting song"; the Spanish form réquiem with acute é is correct, but I'm not sure if it's the one Kubo used; also, the form in the katakana is supposedly イェ which, because of little ェ, would = ye)
- Tromba is, apparently, actually 魔旋襲 (*トロンバ) *Toronba, Japanese for "devil whirling strike"; Spanish looks good
- Vuelo Oscuras is 黒翔撃 （*ヴェロ・オスキュラス） *Vuero Osukyurasu, Japanese & Spanish trans. look good
- Onryūha is actually 怨流破, "grudging coursing rend"
- Meisen Hōgeki (冥旋崩撃), "dark whirling felling strike (冥 mei is used esp. of the underworld, e.g. Meiousei "(the planet) Pluto", more lit. "dark king star"--apparently citing the connection to Hades/Pluto)
- Musō *Renbu looks good
- Kagehōshi (影法師) looks good--although it's interesting: I wonder if its apparent reading with -h- instead of -b- means it's to be taken more lit., not as "(cast) shadow/silhouette", but as "shadow fashi"? Who the hell knows XD?
- Enra Gōmetsu looks good, "torturous ruin of Yama"
- It looks like it's actually Engoku Renge (焔獄蓮華), with 焔 being a rarer version of a word for "flame, blaze", sic. "blazing prison lotus flower" (goku "prison" is apparently meant to reference Hell, the Jigoku or "prison of earth")
- Banyū Gōka (蛮幽業禍) is something like "karmic ill of savage ghosts"; though 業 can lit. mean "skill, art, calling", it is, as you wisely found, used in words denoting karma (which itself comes from Sanskrit for "deed, creation"--fate is what you make it); I use "ill" as in evil; and 幽, though more lit. "dark, secluded", is often used of ghosts by association with its compound yūrei ("dark/nether soul")
- Shunsōgeki looks good, "flash spear strike--that is, not flash as in light, but as in quickness, like with Shunpō)
Sorry for taking up so much space again :( ; I just wanted to be thorough. And, like I said, there's still some uncertainties. But it looks like we've got a lot. Adam Restling (talk) 12:25, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
I decided to look up the kanji for Guncho Tsurara on Tangorin, and I was confused by what I found. While 群鳥氷 effecitvely means "icicle flock" (combining "flock" + "bird" + "icicle"), the 柱 on the end appears to mean "pillar, post, cylinder, support" and for the life of me, I can't figure out how that would meld with any of the other kanji to create either "icicle" or "flock". Adam, could you take a look at this and perhaps explain it? Here's the kanji all together:
Thanks for the heads-up & the Kanji so I don't have to hunt for them. If they're correct, then Gunchō Tsurara is, indeed, "flocking icicles" or "icicle flock", as you said. 氷 by itself is "ice", though it can be used (apparently somewhat informally) to refer to various associated phenomena, such as icicles, hail, the quality of coldness, etc. However, to be actually more specific about which of these is intended as the meaning, a compound or specialized word/Kanji is better, as here: sic, "ice" + "pillar, post" > "icicle", seemingly imagined as a spike or "pillar" of ice.
That's also why, say. "hail", specifically, is often written with the specialized (and so distinct from just "ice") Kanji 雹 or 霰 "hail(stones)/(ice) cubes". Adam Restling (talk) 12:44, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
Like the above section, I looked up the kanji for the Senzaikyū on Tangorin, and I'm confused by what I find. The current rendering is "Palace of Remorseful Sin", but the kanji go in the order of "regret, repent" + "guilt, sin, blame" + "palace", which, at least to me, seems like it would be more properly rendered as "Repenting Palace" or something to that effect. If you could take a look and determine the rendering, Adam, that'd be great.—This unsigned comment is by Xilinoc (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
Yeah, the order of sememes in the English translation compared to that in the original Japanese is sometimes tricky: you should try going in the same order first, if possible; but, if it seems safe and better to shuffle the order (since it doesn't seem to destroy the meaning), I think it's okay. For example, with Zanpakutō, which in direct order is more lit. "slay-po sword", I think it's okay to shuffle it a bit and translate as "po/soul-slaying sword".
With Senzaikyū, which consists of 懺 "regret; repent; confess sins" + 罪 "crime, sin" + 宮 "palace, shrine", I could go with another slight shuffle & trans. it "sin-repenting palace", esp. since senzai didn't seem to come up as a common word, I like being more lit. if I can, etc; but, then again, a less lit. form like "palace of penitence" could work, too, since the dictionary defines penitence as "expressing remorse for one's misdeeds or sins"--nicely encapsulating both the first two Kanji. Yeah, I think I could go for that second one. At any rate, most of them are fairly correct; it largely, then, comes down to aesthetic. Adam Restling (talk) 13:00, February 12, 2014 (UTC)