White Bone Hell and Blood Pond Hell
So, currently we're listing the two hot springs in the Kirinden as the White Bone Hell and the Blood Pond Hell. However, Cnet's translation, which is generally much more accurate, lists the White Bone Hell as the Skeletal Pit and the Blood Pond Hell as the Bloody Inferno. Would you mind taking a look at the kanji and determining what the proper translation would be?
- White Bone Hell - 白骨地獄, Hakkotsu Jigoku
- Blood Pond Hell - 血の池地獄, Chi no Ike Jigoku
Thanks to Xilinoc for posting the Kanji. Based on those above Kanji, our current translations can stay. While hakkotsu is used to mean/translate "skeleton", it more lit. = "bare/white bone(s)", and what is a skeleton but a body's bones stripped bare? It's previously been used with more lit. intent in BLEACH in that ch. title during the Starrk/Kyouraku fight which was all about colors (via "Irooni"), 374: "Grey Wolf - Red Blood - Black Garb - White Bone" (灰狼・赤血・黒衣・白骨 Kairou - Sekketsu - Kokui - Hakkotsu).
The original Japanese, of course, suffers no such problems (more poetic or more literal?), as it can mean either of these things--the "trouble" (if there's any) then being a bit of ambiguity as to which is intended ... unless Kubo wanted both to be possible to add nuance, which seems plausible.
I suppose, though, that it then comes down to preference and consistency, this last being arrived at, maybe, by comparison with the similar nomenclature with "official" Hells, like the "black rope(s)/cord(s)" (Kokujou). This is similar to the way that chi no can be translated as "~ of blood" (rendering it lit. as noun + genitive particle) OR "blood(y) ~" (rendering it as the genitive particle no transforming the noun "blood" into an adjective, which is one of the functions of no).
Maybe I just lean more toward "White Bone" because of a combination of the above considerations and because we get a nice "syllabic synergy" with it comparing to the other one named: White - Bone, Blood - Pond XD. Adam Restling (talk) 09:42, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
According to a "origin questionable" (as probably not by Kubo, but by editors at Jump) release known as "The Dagger", which is a Bleach review page released by Weekly Shonen Jump, during Bleach Hiatus. The usage of the name Wandenreich was placed on the page in English. General Issue is we dont commonly go by the raw here and we dont go by content that Kubo himself didnt officially release and we dont know if he actually wrote any of this or if this is the opinion review from people at jump.--
Don't be afraid, everyone: I can see Wandenreich, too. XD
Well, while the exact "purity of extraction" (from Kubo, or, somehow, "only" JUMP) of † BLEACH The Dagger † may remain unclear, the situation, therefore, doesn't seem much different from that of the databooks and related material we took the other romanizations from--or, indeed, the Kubo-produced names and titles featured in the weekly vs. the volume chapters. The concept of "canon" has always been more elastic in BLEACH than we might like, even that canon we get from the author (!); from "You're a Shinigami and a--I mean, a human and a ...", Proyectil becoming Ola Azul, etc.
I'm really pleased we're getting so many (so-far) apparent "official" romanizations for these guys so early, compared to those we did for the Arrancar ... even if it's still not as early as I'd've hoped.
It makes me wonder, though: where did Kubo get the first element for this word Wandenreich? The closest word I can find in my dictionaries is Wand, which means "wall", "face (as of a wall, cliff, etc)", but is also used similarly for "partition, edge, precipice"; however, in a compound with it, we should prob. expect, rather, *Wandreich instead (although I agree that Wandenreich has a better cadence).
The underlying Japanese of Wandenreich, Miezaru Teikoku, do mean "unseen/invisible empire", but I suppose use of Wand "wall" or some derivative of it--if this is the origin of Wanden---could make sense, in the sense of "walled-off/sheltered (from sight)", the same way the Arabic jinnī ("invisible [spirit]", the source of English genie) is held to derive from the Semitic root gnn "cover, surround".
P.S. Based on the parallel spellings Wandenreich and below (split into two columns for concerns of space) as Wanden reich, this would seem to suggest a similar treatment for Sternritter--i.e., that we should prob. spell them, respectively, as Wandenreich, Sternritter (and I think we still spell the latter as two words, *Stern Ritter, on this Wiki--but I can't quite remember). Seemed appropriate to just briefly bring that up here. :) Adam Restling (talk) 10:22, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks Adam. On the Stern Ritter / Sternritter issue, it was previously brought up (here) and the discussion seemed to indicate that it was initially split due to spacing issues but later uses of the word show it as one continuous word. I don't have access to raws to check that out but I'm sure someone can provide them (hopefully). Btw, here are somewhat higher quality raws for the Dagger in case you need them. ~~Ууp <talk> 12:38, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
In the same publication there is a page on stern ritter that we basically need to know what the page itself says. The raw can be found here: http://24.media.tumblr.com/bf17e96b9e156ad74196826518500c47/tumblr_mqjahg5aFQ1risqr3o1_500.png --
This might be a good place to start re: translations of what this, the first week of The Dagger, contains, and a good place to check for similar data/Daten ( ;) ) on the following weeks as they are released.
If the translations so far are any indication (most of them via the Chinese translations of the original Japanese text), a decent amount is just clarification or reiteration of stuff we already know--but they are also useful for some additional tidbits and romanizations, it seems; and they seem to be done by people who prob. have more resources and fluency than I can command, at least overall.
Perhaps additional renderings could be made (from the Japanese raws, which are also provided at the link above) by some of the more fluent (in Japanese grammar and texts) members of the Corner, if necessary :). Adam Restling (talk) 12:57, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
Zanpakutō (names, release calls, etc.)
Having recently decided to look up the meaning of the kanji for Senbonzakura Kageyoshi's name, I was stumped when I found that none of the results give credence to translating "Kageyoshi" (景厳) as "Vibrant Display". To be more accurate, while the first kanji 景 does translate to "view, scenery" (and thus figuratively "display"), the second kanji 厳 translates to "severe, rigid, solemn", which is pretty much the opposite of "vibrant". MarqFJA (talk) 21:05, August 10, 2013 (UTC)
It's a fairly liberal translation of the Furigana (would rather be "pleasant display"), due to the fact that the Zanpakuto name uses Ateji (Kanji and Furigana which share no correlation). It's the same with Suzumushi, which has Kanji that means something else (more like "clean bug"). I'm not a member of the corner, but that's the reason why the translation doesn't seem to match. Andrew Crichton (talk) 11:51, August 17, 2013 (UTC)
- From what I understand of the language, furigana does not overrule kanji when it comes to the actual meaning of the word, only in the pronunciation itself. MarqFJA (talk) 20:01, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
- That is correct. I was going to bring up Suzumushi to ask if it should be changed to reflect an actual translation of the kanji rather than the furigana, as a proper translation of the kanji makes the connection between Shikai and Bankai a lot clearer. Realistically both meanings should be listed for all cases of Ateji (Minadzuki, Suzumushi, Senbonzakura Kageyoshi, Gegetsuburi(?)), since it's meant to operate like a pun. Andrew Crichton (talk) 22:34, August 19, 2013 (UTC)
Character and element (e.g. devices) names
Apparently this guy has both kana and Chinese characters given for his name. Not entirely sure if they are correct, but these are what someone tried to put in: 蒼都 (ツアン·トウ)
Cang Du (蒼都) seems to tap good old Mandarin Chinese, whence the superscript (furigana) katakana reading Tsan Tu (ツァン·トゥ), approximating the Mandarin pronunciation [tsʰang tu]--the Japanese pronunciation of the Kanji would be Sou To or the like. Note the small ァ (a) and ゥ (u), compared to the approximations above.
Because of the interpunct ( • ) between them, it's probable, in that ol' Eastern order, that Cang is his surname, and Du his given name (whether this ever comes up is uncertain ;) ). 都 can mean "capitol, metropolis"; "(the) all, whole" (? < "capital amount")"; or "fine, elegant" (? < "metropolitan"). 蒼 is "blue" or "pale" again (it turns up here and there in other BLEACH names/terms). Adam Restling (talk) 05:28, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
Stern Ritter Titles
Looking at the previous request for Quilge's epithet, it strikes me that all the Schrift for the Stern Ritter are done just like the Arrancar's Zanpakuto names are. Could we have the romanji and translations for the kanji?
Quilge - 監獄
Driscoll - 大量虐殺
Loyd/Royd - 貴方自身
Berenice - 異議
Jerome - 咆哮
- You menat like that ?
Quilge - (監獄 (ザ・ジェイル), Kangoku (Za Jeiru); translates to : Prison, Jail.)
Driscoll - (大量虐殺 (ジ・オーヴァーキル), Tairyō Gyakusatsu or Tairyōgyakusatsu (Ji Ōvākiru); translates to : Massacre, Genocide.)
Loyd/Royd - (貴方自身 (ジ・ユアセルフ), Anata Jishin (Ji Yuaserufu); translates to : Yourself.)
Berenice - (異議 (ザ・クエスチョン), Igi (Za Kuesuchon); translates to : Objection, Dissent, Protest.)
Jerome - (咆哮 (ザ・ロア), Hōkō (Za Roa); translates to : Yell, Roar, Howl.)
or also like that :
Quilge - (監獄, Kangoku; translates to : Prison, Jail.)
Driscoll - (大量虐殺, Tairyō Gyakusatsu or Tairyōgyakusatsu; translates to : Massacre, Genocide.)
Loyd/Royd - (貴方自身, Anata Jishin; translates to : Yourself.)
Berenice - (異議, Igi; translates to : Objection, Dissent, Protest.)
Jerome - (咆哮, Hōkō; translates to : Yell, Roar, Howl.)
Mad6 (talk) 10:04, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
Wow, Mad really went the whole nine yards giving us all that info, thanks :)!
I don't have all the raws to help with these--and those I do are often more blurry than is helpful when it comes to the furigana--but, from what I *think* I can see, the above seem correct.
All that's really left to me, then, seems to be a couple of notes, which may only be worthwhile to myself XD: 大量虐殺 "massacre, genocide" (as Mad noted) is more lit. "great amount" + "atrocity" (< "oppress" + "kill")--that's fun; 貴方自身 "yourself" specifically combines 貴方 "you" (polite) + 自身 "(one's) self". Interesting usages to note. Adam Restling (talk) 11:52, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
- No need to thanks Adam ;) It wasn't THAT easy to right read them, as I too have blurry ones, but I'm glad You verified all of them as correct :) and Adam, Could You take a look at my post about Haschwalth Grandmaster and Emperor's Advisor" titles to verify if I'm correct. Mad6 (talk) 13:11, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
Their names are revealed in tankobon edition of the chapter.
- Mera Hiuchigashima (燧ヶ島 メラ, Hiuchigashima Mera)
- Tokie Tonokawa (砥ノ川 時江, Tonokawa Tokie)
- Hasuka Hashihara (箸原 ハス花, Hashihara Hasuka) (Bodyguard 1)
- Nonomi Nomino (鑿野 のの美, Nomino Nonomi) (Bodyguard 2)
- Tsumiko Tsuchimiya (槌宮 罪子, Tsuchimiya Tsumiko) (Bodyguard 3)
— talk 01:53, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
Meanings of kanji of Nimaiya's bodyguards' names
Something occurred to me recently. Nimaiya's bodyguards are Zanpakutō in human shape, which would mean their names are their Zanpakutō names. Since we always list the meaning of the kanji present in a Zanpakutō's name, could someone post the meanings of their names so we can add it to the article?--Xilinoc (talk) 23:24, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Despite being Zanpakutou, these “Zanpakukko” (you might could call them) seem to have names meant to emulate strange/archaized versions of real names. However, their names generally refer to their function in the Zanpakutou forging process, or some trait(s) of it.
Mera, being katakana, is of uncertain (if any) meaning. Hiuchigashima could mean “kindling island”. The Kanji rendered hiuchi, which would seem normally to be “fire-striking” (火打ち, i.e. “striking sparks [like with flint] to kindle fire”), is 燧 “(signal) fire”; ga, rendered as it sometimes is by small ke (ヶ), is usually the conjunctive particle ga, which in rarer and older formations can seemingly be used for possessive/adjectival. Combining this with shima “island”, I would render it “kindling island”, as it could be seen as embracing the multiple meanings intimated by both Kanji and furigana-born intended reading (which itself shades meaning). Mera does strike the fire, igniting and blowing it, in the forging process.
Tokie is “time bay” (bay as in the body of water). Tonokawa is “whetstone river”. This would seem to refer to the “river” (pail of water) she pores onto the molten sword (to hone it like a whetstone, I guess), forming a “bay” at the appropriate time in the process (?).
Hasuka (katakana hasu + Kanji for “flower”) prob. means “lotus flower” (with ハス for 蓮 “lotus”). There is a word hasuka in Japanese, used to mean “Nelumbonaceae (plant family)”, sometimes called the “lotus-lily family”, but this is spelled with katakana hasu (prob. for “lotus”, 蓮) + the Kanji 科 “department, course, section”—sic the “hasu/lotus family”. Hashihara means “chopstick field”. She catches hold of the tempered sword between her pigtails, as one would a bit of food between chopsticks.
Nonomi combines a double hiragana no with mi (美) “fair, beautiful”. I guess you could “translate” this as “nono beauty”, but if nono was intended to have a meaning, it’s impossible to discern what that might be. More likely it was meant to echo, by metathesis, the surname. Nomino is “chisel field” (nomi can also mean “drill, bore”, but it seems like chiseling was more likely when dealing with a sword). She assists, it seems, Tokie in the honing/tempering of the molten sword.
Tsumiko is “sin child”, although tsumi also means “fault, guilt, crime” in general, without the religious trappings; this could reference her dark, concealing clothing and quietness. Tsuchimiya is “hammer shrine”, with her turning one of her own pulled teeth (torn from its “shrine” in her mouth???—this could well just be a “completion” of her name from a single word, the same way field is in the others) into a hammer that Nimaiya uses to beat the smelted sword into shape. Adam Restling (talk) 01:56, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
Haschwalth Stern Ritter's Grandmaster Title
I am not sure about my interpretation of his title of Stern Ritter's Grandmaster, but as far as I see from raw it goes like : 星十字騎士団 (シュテルンリッター) Shuterunrittā, [最高位], Saikōi [グランドマスター] Gurandomasutā) which Kanji literally means a : pride of place; most prominent; top-ranking, and as "Emperor's Advisor" 補佐 (Hosa) and it literally means : aid; help; assistance; assistant; counselor; counsellor; adviser; advisor, and I leave it to You Guys, officially working in Translation Corner to decide how to properly spell his titles. here  I put link to raws if would be needed to verification. Have a nice day Guys ;) Mad6 (talk) 13:11, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to Mad for the data; checking the raw, the Kanji do seem correct: 星十字騎士団最高位 (シュテルンリッター・グランドマスター) Shuterunrittā Gurandomasutā, with the intended rendering being Sternritter Grandmaster, and those underlying Kanji meaning "highest-ranked of the band of star-cross knights". Saikoui (最高位) combines the superlative prefix sai- "most, ~est" with koui, lit. "high rank, high order"; sic. saikoui is "(that of the) most high rank/order" > "(that which/one who is) highest-ranked". Saikou itself is also often found as its own word in the sense "highest, most high". Association and usage interchangeable with hosa is doubtless due to this rank (imperial aide etc) being (one of) the highest in historic hierarchies. Adam Restling (talk) 11:48, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
Bazz-B's Ephitet and other stuff from chapter 548
I just got the raw  of the latest chapter and I want to make sure that it's according to it, the Bazz-B epithet is "The Heat" 灼熱 (ザ·ヒート) Shakunetsu (Za Hīto) which Kanji literally means Scorching Heat. Rangiku's seemingly new technique a Haineko House goes like this "灰猫 ハウス" and Hitsugaya's new combination with Rangiku's Haineko a Multilayer Vacuum Ice Wall "真空多層氷壁" (Shinkū Tasō Hyōheki) and Vacuum Ice Blade "真空の氷の刃" (Shinkū no Kōri no Yaiba). As page with Bazz-B is protected, I can't put it on page and leave the rest to You.—This unsigned comment is by Mad6 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
Thanks again to Mad for the great help re: the Kanji et al. Indeed, the Kanji for Bazz's moniker does seem to be 灼熱 (usually read shakunetsu, as cited above), "scorching heat, incandescence", a compound of 灼 "miraculous" + 熱 "heat, fever; (figurative) passion", sic. "miraculous (amount of) heat" > "heat of stunning magnitude" > "scorching heat, red-hot, fierce-burning brightness". Thus, we have "The Heat" (灼熱 (ザ・ヒート) Za Hīto), with the underlying Kanji translating to "scorching heat". It may also be worth noting that Bazz prefaces this with 星十字騎士団"H" (シュテルンリッターエイチ Shuterunrittā Eichi), though maybe that's just me ;) ; I'm guessing that Kubo rendered "H" as eichi to avoid associations with the usual ecchi XD.
Yep, "Haineko House" (whether that's the technique name, or just her saying "Haineko, (form a) house!" is, natch, still unclear) is pretty straightfoward (as Mad said): 灰猫 ハウス Haineko Hausu.
With the kennings for Hitsugaya's new techniques, same thing--not certain whether they're "official" terms or descriptive ones (e.g. if someone said "I'm going to cut you with this red blade", it doesn't mean the technique is called "Red Blade")--but these seem to lean towards the latter (see further in the following). But, yep, we got those cited above: 真空多層氷壁 shinkuu tasou hyouheki "hollow manifold/multilayer ice-wall(s)"; 真空の氷の刃 shinkuu no koori no yaiba "hollow ice blade"; 真空氷壁 shinkuu hyouheki "hollow ice-walls"; and various other descriptions of such things. Adam Restling (talk) 12:32, September 19, 2013 (UTC)
General/Other translation issues (e.g. conjugation/miscellanea)
Geh Geh Geh
Well, the distinctive laughter (usually One Piece's schtick) seems to imply that the character in this panel and this panel are the same guy. The kana look just a tad different, so could someone confirm whether they are indeed identical? Mohrpheus (Talk) 03:02, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
- Kana is the same (ゲッゲッゲッ), just different fonts. — talk 13:26, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
Kūkaku's Cannon Chant
I have decided to ask this here, not sure how it works but a user asked about Kūkaku's Cannon Chant and list the reference as from Chapter 84, pgs 6-10. He also quoted it as "Red Bronze desire demands 36 degrees of adjustment..13 pairs of whistle..72 pairs of shade,..The ape's right hand grabs the star..embracing 25 suns, the cradle of sand is bleeding, Kagizaki" so I guess I would like to know if this is correct??
Japanese and Spanish/German Translations
I've noticed quite a few translations around this wiki either 1. having the translation for only one language when there are two involved, 2. claiming both the Japanese and other language translation mean the same thing, or 3. missing a translation when there are kanji present. I'd appreciate it if someone could look over them and confirm and/or expand upon their translations.
Here are the terms with the kanji, katakana, romanji, current translation, and what other language there could be a translation for:
- Amor (愛 (アモル), amoru; Spanish and Japanese for "Love") (I'm doubting the kanji used here means "love", Kubo usually uses a synonym or whatnot, e.g. "The Overkill" being "Massacre")
- Wandenreich (見えざる帝国 (ヴァンデンライヒ), Vandenraihi; Japanese for "Invisible Empire") (possible German translation, or maybe a proper Japanese one, since Invisible Empire seems like the German words Wanden and Reich together)
- Tres Bestias (3獣神 (トレス・ベスティア), Toresu Besutia; Spanish for "Three Beasts", Japanese for "Three Beast Gods") (note: even though this has a translation for both languages, someone from outside the corner translated the Japanese meaning, and I'd like confirmation from a corner member)
- Biskiel (神の正義 (ビスキエル), Bisukieru; Japanese for "Justice of God") (possible German/Hebrew translation)
- Grimaniel (神の歩み (グリマニエル), gurimanieru; Japanese for "Walk of God") (possible German/Hebrew translation)
- Hierro Virgen (鉄の処女 (イエロ・ビルヘン), Iero Biruhen; Japanese and Spanish for Iron Maiden) (I'm doubting the kanji used here means "iron maiden", Kubo usually uses a synonym or whatnot, e.g. "Lance of the Lightning" being "Lance of Thunder and Lightning")
- Teatro de Titere (人形芝居 (テアトロ・デ・ティテレ), Teatoro de Titere; Japanese and Spanish for "Puppet Theater") (I'm doubting the kanji used here means "puppet theater", Kubo usually uses a synonym or whatnot, e.g. "Gluttony" being "Eating Hollow")
- Gabriel (受胎告知 (ガブリエール), gaburieru; Japanese for "Notice of Conception") (possible Spanish translation)
- Senescencia (セネスセンシア, Senesusenshia; Spanish and Japanese for "Senescence") (since there's no kanji, I'm doubting this one has a Japanese translation)
- Dragra (龍拳 (ドラグラ), Doragura; Japanese for "Dragon Fist") (possible Spanish translation)
- Predation (虚食反応 (プレデェイション), Puredeishon) (possible Japanese translation)
- Gillian (最下大虚 (ギリアン), girian; Japanese for "Lowest Great Hollow") (possible Spanish translation)
- Adjuchas (中級大虚 (アジューカス), ajūkasu; Japanese for "Intermediate Great Hollow") (possible Spanish translation)
- Vasto Lorde (最上大虚 (ヴァストローデ), vasuto rōde; Japanese for "Highest Great Hollow") (possible Spanish translation)
- Grua Tirar (クレーン投げ(グルーア・ティラール), Gurūa Tirāru; Japanese and Spanish for "Crane-Throw") (I'm doubting the kanji used here means "crane-throw", Kubo usually uses a synonym or whatnot, e.g. "The Question" being "Objection")
- Brazo Derecha de Gigante (巨人の右腕 (ブラソ・デレチャ・デ・ヒガンテ), buraso derecha de higante; Spanish and Japanese for "Right Arm of the Giant") (I'm doubting the kanji used here means "right arm of the giant", Kubo usually uses a synonym or whatnot, e.g. "Swallow" being "Car Wheel Iron Swallow")
- Brazo Izquierda del Diablo (悪魔の左腕 (ブラソ・イスキエルダ・デル・ディアブロ), buraso isukieruda deru diaburo; Spanish and Japanese for "Left Arm of the Devil") (I'm doubting the kanji used here means "right arm of the giant", Kubo usually uses a synonym or whatnot, e.g. "The Roar" being "Yell")
- Gritz (五架縛 [グリツ], gurittsu; Japanese for "Five Rack Ties") (possible German translation)
- I did a little checking around of my own, and from my connections to native Israelis and a Hebrew/English dictionary, I found that Biskiel and Grimaniel do not seem to be Hebrew (though I can confirm that "El," the suffix of those two words, does mean "God"). The closest I found was "Germani" (with a hard "g") which is actually just Hebrew for "German." So the words might not be in Hebrew at all, and rather another language, or the prefixes are made up (unless Quilge's Vollständig means "German God," which I doubt).
Sometimes Kubo does just use Kanji/Japanese words that mean (almost) the same thing as the foreign language words they underlie, maybe because he's strapped for time, tired, or can't think of/doesn't think the term needs his usu. "souping-up".
Here's what I could do with the questions posed:
Amor: Underlying 愛 does mean "love, affection", so assuming it's the correct Kanji (I'll try to check the raw later), it's all good.
Wandenreich: Doesn't seem to be a true German word *Wanden with the meaning "invisible/unseen", with the closest being Wand "wall". See above for how, if this Wand *is* the inspiration, it could come close to a sense "unseen"; and see here for information on miezaru and teikoku, as well as theories related to them, too. But, yes, it would seem that *Wanden- is ~ to Miezaru, and -reich to Teikoku, in the term.
Tres Bestia (Kubo's apparent goof ["three beast"] for *Tres Bestias ["three beasts"]: In the raw I have, Nel names them with only the katakana (トレス・ベスティア Toresu Besutia), then translates it for Ichigo as "three beasts" (sanbiki no kedamono). When I Google "3獣神", though, many sites do give them as the underlying for Tres Bestia. Do they appear in a later chapter I lack the raw for? In the revised-for-volume-release version of the chapter I cite? Or is it a fan creation parroted across the Net as if true? I'm not sure at this point ...
Biskiel and Grimaniel: These don't seem to be angel names of any historical pedigree of known angelology, and are prob. just Kubo creations made to emulate established angel names, esp. those of the pattern ~iel "my ~ (is) God", not simply "~ of God". No Hebrew or other language I've been able to find furnishes a form *bisk(i) meaning "justice", nor one *griman(i) meaning "tread/walk".
Hierro Virgen: Underlying 鉄の処女 do mean "iron maiden": 鉄 "iron" (noun) + genitive particle の > "iron" (adjective) + 処女 "maiden, virgin".
Teatro de Titere: Underlying 人形芝居 combines 人形 "puppet, doll" and 芝居 "play, drama", so they're essentially identical in meaning: "puppet theatre" (the pseudo-adjectival use here of puppet being expressed, as usu. for Spanish, as de titere "of puppet"), "puppet show" (show as a performance of dramatic theatre).
Gabriel: The name of the archangel who revealed to Mary that she was pregnant with the Christ child, hence the underlying Kanji 受胎告知, used for this Annunciation--more lit. "notification of the conception". The katakana are prob. the usu. for Japanese pronunciation of Gabriel, closer to its Greco-Latin descent from the Hebrew (and so fitting Spanish phonology pretty well). In other words: "Spanish" Gabriel = the angel, underlying Kanji = one of his most famous acts. 'Course, Szayelaporro was far less sacred a pregnancy for Nemu ;) ...
Senescencia: This, along many of the "Arrancaric" terms in UNMASKED, lacks underlying Kanji. But yes, it's only the Spanish word for "senescence, growing old, aging".
Dragra: Doesn't seem to exist as a real Spanish word, at least of any currency; neither do the possible phonetic variants, *Dragula, *Dragla, and *Dragura, I tried.
Predation: Underlying 虚食反応 mean "hollow feeding response".
"Gillian", Adjuchas and Vasto Lorde: See here and here for data on the possible extraction of, esp., Gillian and Adjuchas; but the verdict seems to be that they're not Spanish, and God knows where Kubo got Gillian from XD. Adjuchas seems quite likely to've been ultimately taken from the "genius of stone" cited in my links; I found a demon using the name in the bestiary of some Japanese RPG-looking game, so it seems the Japanese could know it from there or similar sources. It's not Spanish, though (which doesn't really possess a j sound), but seems to be an Anglicized Latin rendering. As for Vasto Lorde, at least the word vasto "vast, immense" is a Spanish word; but Lorde seems to be a Kubo "extra-Spanishizing" of Spanish loan-word (from English) lord (plural lores) "lord" (rank of peerage, as in the House of Lords). This loan didn't seem Spanish enough, or distinct enough from its English source--or maybe he wanted more syllables?--so Kubo could've added the -e for such an effect. This may also explain why the katakana for it is Rōde (with the English -r- fused into the long -ō-, as is common in English adaptation; compare fō "four"), rather than a more Spanish-appropriate (i.e. preserving the "stronger" sound of the flap r) *Rorude).
P.S. In one of the databooks, in a section about Grimmjow, Adjuchas is spelled "Adjucas", but this is the only and closest example to an "official" romanization of it I've seen in Japanese sources, and (in light of its likeliest extraction) should prob. be taken with a grain of salt: after all, I think the same databook gives us "harcyon days" instead of "halcyon days".
Grúa Tirar: Underlying クレーン投げ combine クレーン, a phonetic adaptation of English "crane (the machine), hoist", and 投げ "fall, throw". Spanish and Japanese meanings seem pretty identical.
Brazo Derecha de Gigante: Underlying 巨人の右腕 do mean "right arm of (the) giant".
Brazo Izquierda del Diablo: Underlying 悪魔の左腕 do mean "left arm of the Devil". Specifically, when reference is intended to a major rather than a "minor" devil (or, indeed, the Devil himself, Satan) the term used is often 悪魔 akuma, an intensifying compound of 悪 "evil, wicked" and 魔 "fiend, devil"; or the compound 魔王 maou "fiend/devil king".
"Gritz": Underlying 五架縛 （グリッツ） Gurittsu ~ "five frame bonds" are found in the Japanese Wiki for Ishida, as well as other places; but a word *Gritz doesn't appear to be real German--in fact, the closest phonetic possibility I've been able to find is glitzern "to sparkle". It seems likely it's meant to be German, but I'm not sure from where, or if there's a real word that inspired it at all. Adam Restling (talk) 11:09, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
Wow, thanks for tackling this, man. Also, in regards to Dragra, I was reading through some stuff from the Arrancar arc, and I found this. Now, I know older scanlations can be...iffy, to put it politely, when it comes to translating the Arrancar-related terms (Arrancar names, Zanpakutō names, and, of course, a great deal of the release commands of said Zanpakutō) but these guys got the Japanese meaning correct, so could you take a look at what they got for the Spanish translation and see if it's correct? Not to deride you previous analysis, it's just that it's one of the phonetic variations you mentioned.--Xilinoc (talk) 16:47, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
About Tres Bestia: Nel really calls them 3獣神 in the next (489th) chapter. — talk 17:40, August 9, 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks :). Though since Nel's statement still encloses this in quotation marks, it's hard to know whether this is a kind of ad hoc explanation, or a canonical association of these underlying with the katakana. Maybe a databook-to-come will let us know. Adam Restling (talk) 22:47, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
Vol 60 Poem
Tsuminaki anata ha taiyō no yō Tsumibukai anata mo taiyō no yō
It seems like this could be translated:
"The sinless you is like the sun; even the sinful you is like the sun".
A couple of issues
So there are two things I felt the need to bring to the attention of the Translation Corner. One's fairly simple, the other..... not so much.
First, the simple one:
- Rugir der Dragon - Something about this name bugs me, and unless five years of Spanish have completely failed me, der is not Spanish, and "of the" (which seems to be the translation) is del. Simple issue, yes, but I looked at the (raw) UNMASKED page (147), and it actually does say der in English letters, so I'm not sure if this was a basic L/R mistake on whoever typed up the English in that character book. I'm more or less looking for a second person to confirm this.
The second issue is a little more complicated:
- Biskiel - yes, it was already determined that Biskiel really isn't a word in any language. However, I found something that might throw a wrench in this idea. I picked up the US copy of Volume 56, and Quilge's Vollständig is given a different yet similar name: Piskiel. So, I decided to look this one up in an English/Hebrew dictionary to see if there was a possibility that meant something. Needless to say, I did find something, or I wouldn't be putting it here. To start off, I left off the "iel" as that is generally just a suffix to mean "of God" (אל [El] meaning "God"), so I looked up whatever variations I could find of "Pisk." The letters I used were "פסק" (PSK from right to left), and I found a few different possible translations, as, with Hebrew, the more important part of any word is the letters (the consonants), and the vowels that go underneath the letters are usually not written:
- Pesak - Decision (Pesak Din [פסק דין] would be verdict or judgement)
- Pasak - Pass sentence
- Using these two words, I've come to the conclusion that "Pesakiel" and "Pasakiel" (which both have the same spelling in Hebrew as "Piskiel") could mean "God's decision" or "God's sentence" (possibly "God's verdict/judgement"). These possibilities almost seem like too much of a coincidence given that the translation of the Kanji seems to be "God's judgement." I'm not at all asserting anything, but if, possibly, a second set of eyes can take a look at this one, that would be helpful.
Rugir der Dragon, despite appearing in roman ("English") letters, does seem to be a fail, particularly the part "der" you cited; it should be del, with an l, for Spanish "of the" (the usual contraction of de el)--this fail also occurs in harcyon days instead of halcyon days in one of the plot sections, I think; and, to be technical, "dragon" should be dragón.
Biskiel (the underlying = "justice", not "judgement", of God--though this could be just splitting hairs, I dunno XD): Well, the form with the b- would seem correct, and VIZ's form with p- wrong, so let's just establish that first off. As I said above, iel isn't "(of) God"--the element el alone is "God", and the -i-, where it occurs, the suffix "my", producing phrases such as gabr-i-el "champion-my-(is) God" > "God is my champion"--but you're right that the first element would be sought for as rooted in something like B/P-S-K or (B/P-S-Q, since Hebrew qoph "Q" is often erroneously translated k, too). However, I can't find such a root with the possible appropriate derivation "justice" (= close enough to "judgement"???).
The root psk (פסק) which you give--actually, similar to what I stated above, to be rendered psq, with final qoph (which I'll write most often as k below in line with Schiffy's usage)--doesn't seem to be the part involved with "judgement", that being din (prob. to be rendered *dîn, from dān "judge"). While the verb pasaq is generally held to mean "part, open wide", it (or a homophone???) is held to mean "cease, stop, conclude" in legal phrases like that you cited, a p(e)sak din--"the conclusion of judgement". Use of just p(e)sak (or pasak for "pass" such judgements) is prob. just a familiar synecdoche, and might be compared to the use of English conclusion itself to refer to a "final judgement" as well a simply an "end".
A theoretical "stem" *bisq-/*pisq- *could* presuppose a word *beseq/*peseq, which could take the form *bisq-/*pisq- before the suffix -î "my" (cf. Hebrew ṣidqî "my righteousness", with the presuffixal form ṣidq- of the noun ṣedeq "righteousness"). However (as I think I've noted elsewhere), the closest word via this theory I'd found to this point was bezeq, which apparently means "lightning", not "justice". Despite the apparent discrepancies of b- and not p- and -k- instead of -q- (this last natheless being quite common), though, Schiffy's citing of "p(e)sak" is the most workable (if impossible to confirm, and tentative) theory for "Biskiel"'s origin so far, and I wouldn't put it past Kubo to chance upon such a word, seeking for some angelic/Hebrew-sounding elements in perhaps a none-too-helpful Japanese-to-Hebrew dictionary. However, given this, it's likely the only thing we can do is list this as a (very-tenuous) "possibility" in some kind of appropriate "Trivia" or "Talk" section. But I suppose most of this is not postable material so much as us having fun trying to work out these miscellaneous puzzles :).
Note that Schiffy says that forms pesakiel, pasakiel and piskiel would "have the same spelling in Hebrew" only because written Hebrew rarely indicates vowels (as Schiff states), instead generally expressing them as bare consonants (sic, here, an indistinguishable-to-one-not-fluent form psq'l). Adam Restling (talk) 00:05, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
While this is here, I realized Fujimaru's equivalent of the ability, Ryū Tenzoshu (Kanji - 竜天蒼瞬), is also lacking a translation. The Kanji of the remaining four abilities (when a different type is chosen: Iryu Shoshei, Ryutei Senkoku, Moko Koho, and Muge Tsurure), are also missing, so those might be needed.
- Someone put a wrong romanization of last 2 Kanji of this technique 虎陶円舞. "円舞" don't means Renbu, but "Enbu" which literally means a "Circle Dance", and 虎陶 which translates to Kosō, literally means Porcelain Tiger; Ryū Tenzoshu (竜天蒼瞬) literally translates to : Heavenly Pale/Azure Dragon Blink but I'm not sure. Unfortunately I don't have a kanji for a 4 last techniques. Mad6 (talk) 14:26, September 7, 2013 (UTC)
Chief source for "confirmation"/research: the Japanese Wiki, always assuming they got it right, either XD.
"Kosō Renbu" (虎陶円舞) should be Kotō Enbu (虎淘円舞), using the same first two Kanji (虎淘) as the name of her Zanpakutou, and meaning "tiger-cull circle dance"; enbu (円舞, "circle, circular, round" + "dance, flit"), it seems, is also often used to refer to the waltz (just a bit of useless trivia/FYI XD).
"Ryū Tenzoshu" should be Ryūten Sōshun (竜天蒼瞬), which means "blue flash of dragon heaven".
As for these other techniques, I'm not sure--they seem not to appear in the Japanese Wiki; the closest I could come were some TENTATIVE & UNCONFIRMED ones on a specialized Japanese (fan?) wiki, which furnished (for Fujimaru) *飛竜翔粋 *Hiryū Shōsui "soaring essence of the flying dragon", and *竜帝篆刻 *Ryūtei Tenkoku "seal engraving of the dragon sire/emperor"; and (for Matsuri) *王虎咆哮 *Ōko Hōkō "roar of the royal tiger" or maybe *陶虎咆哮 (read: *淘虎咆哮???) *Tōko Hōkō "roar of the porcelain/pottery (read: culling???) tiger". But even they [the page author] seems to be uncertain if these names are correct, following their entries with ? marks--perhaps they were trying to guess the Kanji by ear/from memory/whatever, like us all. So I dunno ... Adam Restling (talk) 13:48, September 19, 2013 (UTC)