Forum:Life in Las Noches

"Aizen's Court"
-- "I think you are assuming too much about the ranking system. Most people seemed perfectly satisfied with the rank they had and there was no desire to get something higher."

It seems to me that this statement runs contrary to the Manga and almost every major arrancar interaction we have seen. Most major power plays we saw involved violence and intrigue. The arrancar are regularly aggressive, envious, and contemptuous toward their peers in everyday conversations. When an arrancar's authority was threatened they tended to respond with extreme violence. There is no surprise here...they are still Hollows ruled by a renegade shinigami who takes joy in manipulating them into violent confrontations. These kind of actions were expected.

I'm not so sure about your interpretation of Ulqiorra's statement regarding his second release state. It would of been pointless to even mention that he had never 'shown' it to Aizen if Ulqiorra didn't mean Aizen was unaware of it. It is more logical that Ulqiorra meant it was a secret power that not even Aizen knew about. Great Cthulhu 06:28, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

The fact that that arrancar are violent is a given. Because they are violent they snipe at each other and because of Aizen's preaching of "self reliance" and "not putting their trust in anyone", it is clear that the Espada didn't think of each other as comrades as Soul Society does. The only exception was Starrk. Even the majority of the Faccione didn't care about their peers. You make it sound as it's some sort of "Court" were ministers and courtesans are always plotting and scheming and trying to gain the favour of the King, forming alliances and committing betrays and playing all sort of political games etc. Perhaps it's just me but "politics" and the "espada" are two words I would not associate with each other. To me they are just tools of war and tools of war will wage war within if they are not given something to fight from without. That doesn't mean the fighting has any purpose other then fighting. "Politics" require ambition and only person who demonstrated ambition was Barragan, who wanted to return to being king of Heuco Mundo. Grimmjow didn't want anyone looking down on him and Nnoitra had massive issues with women having higher rank then him and could be interpreted as having a desire for power but Nnoitra was only interested in fighting power. He didn't want to topple Aizen or become his right hand man or anything. So I don't think either Grimmjow or Nnoitra were playing games of politics. The other seven espada showed no discontent with their ranks and apart from Yammy and Ulquoirra, most of the other seven didn't interact all that much with their fellow Esapda. Only Starrk thought of then and he considered them friends and people who would get serious to avenge. Loly and Menoly were jealous of Inoue but because she was a human that Aizen favoured, Dordonii expressed a desire to return to being an espada and Luppi expressed a desire to remain the sixth espada. However, those are hardly evidence to support the notion of "Aizen's court"!
 * In addition, even with "Aizen's court" factor, what possible reason could Ulquoirra have to not reveal is second stage to Aizen? He didn't want a higher rank? He could have just asked Aizen not to promote him or say anything to the other espada if that's was the case. He wanted to keep it a secret so he could fight Aizen if he had to? If anyone knew that he was under hypnosis, it's Ulquoirra! He would have known that no matter how many secret powers he has, as long as Aizen has hypnosis, Aizen would win. Plus there is a perfectly logical explanation for why Ulquoirra said "Even Aizen hasn't seen it" that has nothing to do with it being a secret. Ulquoirra just recently got the second stage. That would explain why Ulquoirra seemed not entirely comfortable in his second stage and didn't seem to be able to use his lance thing properly. So yes, I don't think Ulquoirra actively kept secrets from Aizen. Besides which, Aizen has shown that he is mysterious aware of all that happens in Heuco Mundo and so even if Ulquoirra didn't tell him, chances are Aizen knew. Tinni 07:11, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

-- Actually, since you coined the term, "Aizen's Court" is an excellent description of what is going on among the Espada and lower ranked arrancar.

Politics can be motivated by many different things, not just ambition. Pride, jealousy, love, you name it...these all can be motivations to politic. You can see this in play in the various arrancar interactions. Nor is the fact that the arrancar form a warrior's society make them disinterested in politics. They plainly communicate, disagree, dispute each others positions, promote their own goals, try to one up each other, or just fight to determine supremacy. These are all legitimate means to conduct politics. Its ALL politics.

You mentioned ministers, courtiers, & courtesans in a 'royal' court. Its a good analogy because Aizen serves as a sort of king who uses a 'court' of Arrancar to carry out his dual plans; war against Soul Society & usurpation of the Soul King. And like any court its members offer opinions on policy, struggle to get their own plans put forward, or any number of other things. For example:

1. Consider Grimmjow's disagreement with Ulqiorra. They were both openly disputing with each other over the conduct of the war and policy. Should Ulqiorra have killed a future threat to Aizen's plans or not? was the issue. Aizen overruled Grimmjow. Grimmjow decided to disobey orders and took matters into his own hands. It ended badly and Grimmjow ended up in disgrace and relieved of his rank after challenging one of Aizen's favorites (Tosen). When Aizen decided to show forgiveness to Grimmjow again by having Orihime heal him he immediately killed the current 6th Espada, Luppi, and re-took his rank with absolutely no dissent from Aizen. Grimmjow's pride was assuaged and he regained the rank he prized. Poor Luppi was just a placeholder used and discarded by Aizen.

In the end this wasn't just Arrancar fighting for fighting's sake. This was a policy disagreement that spiraled into a tale of murder, pride, intrigue, and ambition that would feel right at home among any human court in history.

2. What about Nnoitra, Granz, and Nelliel? Noitra & Granz were clearly an alliance of convenience to further their own goals and rid themselves of a rival. Nnoitra and Granz both calculated where their own interests overlapped and decided to work together to reach a mutual goal. Double-dealing, intrigue, cheating...anything but a frontal assault which would of failed. Nel fell from power and both Nnoitra and Granz gained from it as was the purpose of the whole exercise. This is intrigue and assassination in the court of Aizen. This is the definition of politics involving conspiracies and cabals.

3. We even have courtesans. Loly and Menoly, as you say, were intensely jealous of anybody who would threaten their interests in Aizen. They became the jealous harpies who make life miserable for the objects of their antipathy. They crept into Orihime's room and decided to torment her as far as they could get away with. They knew they could only push so far or else risk their positions among the arracar and Aizen's favor. They even tried to intimidate Grimmjow with Aizen's supposed wrath if they were hurt! This kind of petty politicking is a standard feature of any story about a king's court.

4. Barragan is one big bundle of politics waiting to happen. Rank was supremely important to him as his challenge to the first Espada showed.

Of the ten current Espada (11 if you count Luppi) 5 of them we know were involved in struggles illustrated in the Manga that included heavy doses of politicking and intrigue. It doesn't make any sense to deny this. Even though the rest were never directly addressed in contexts similar to those mentioned above chances are they were involved in other events politically as well (like Barragan).

As far as Ulqiorra? All I know is that he kept his ability secret from Aizen or thought he did. Maybe Aizen knew anyway...maybe he didn't. Maybe Ulqiorra was utterly loyal to Aizen but meant to keep his second release a secret in case his fellow Espada got uppity or some sort of emergency developed. Just because Ulqiorra might be loyal to Aizen doesn't mean he won't keep secrets from him. Great Cthulhu 09:05, November 27, 2009 (UTC)