Forum:Demotions

This is just something that occured to me, and I was curious what you all thought. Do you suppose there been any demotions within the Gotei 13? I'm not referencing when people "retire" and mysteriously disappear to the Maggot's Nest, but more like being permitted to stay within the Gotei 13, except as a 6th seat instead of a 3rd (for a random, illustrative example). It's not uncommon in real life, at least in a non-military setting, as I have limited knowledge of militaries' workings, but I thought that perhaps such an act would be considered disgraceful or impermissable among the Gotei 13. Twocents 06:20, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't believe it's ever been mentioned. But we know how strict Gotei 13 can be on rules and regulations; it's a bit of a fine line (or rather 2) between reprimand, demotion (if it's even possible), and then imprisonment/execution. TomServo101 08:30, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure open demotions are very easy. It seems for the higher ranks they can't easily demote someone. Take Mashiro and Kensei. I think its safe to say that Kensei despised having Mashiro as a lieutenant but he seemed resigned to keeping her anyway. Oh well...the Shinigami aren't meant to be exactly like a real military organization anyway. The way they do things is ruled by the laws of drama and comedy not military efficiency.

Great Cthulhu 01:35, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Haha, good point. I frequently wondered, since captains can choose their lieutenants and vice versa, why Kensei chose her, or if she was the lieutenant before he became captain, why he didn't select an alternate pick. Twocents 06:24, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Then there is the example of Urahara and Hiyori. Hiyori wasn't just insubordinate to Urahara but was openly revolting against his command. I'm sure Urahara could of had her dismissed with cause (or however the Shinigami do it). He finally managed to win her grudging cooperation though. I suspect that Urahara's visit to the Detention Center had a two-pronged purpose...both to show Hiyori that he had big plans and needed her help and also as a subtle hint that those who don't find their place in the Shinigami get put away. I don't think it was a warning but a show of concern about consequences if Hiyori didn't accept the way things are.

LOL...I could also be reading too much into that scene but I think its an interesting unspoken subtext. Great Cthulhu 08:56, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I hadn't considered that, but yeah, I can definitely see that. Since it's not like she was actually needed there for him to recruit Mayuri. And Urahara is certainly clever enough to do something sneaky like that. Twocents 11:29, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I suppose the main reason shinigami don't get demoted is power.

The Captains and the lieutenants are members of elite groups whose most distinguishing characteristic is raw power. You can't even become a Captain unless you have Bankai (Kenpachi did it but he is nearly unique in that regard). Bankai is an extemely rare and noteworthy ability as Byakuya notes. You don't throw individuals with that level of power away...you give them captaincies and you do your best to keep them there.

Lieutenants are in the same boat. While Shikai isn't a defining trait only of lieutenants their spiritual pressure is. They rate on average 5-10 times more powerful than the next seated officer and are correspondingly rare. Again you want to keep those individuals close and in a place where that power can be used.

Its just a fact that the threats the shinigami face sometimes escalate to the point where the rank & file soul reapers are useless. Then its time to roll out the big guns and champions of Soul Society. This is the Captains and the Lieutenants. No one else has the power to deal with the threats.

I'm sure that the Gotei 13 train for competence and hope for brilliant leadership. But these traits are more common than raw power so its raw power which decides who becomes a Captain/Lieutenant. Since its a trait that isn't easily replaced eccentricities or even outright incompetence in other areas is tolerated to keep that raw power available.

This, I'm guessing, is the reason that they keep certain lieutenants who would be given the boot otherwise. Great Cthulhu 20:30, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

While interesting, it's not an entirely accurate thought. Mayuri, who is now captain of the 12th Division, was "thrown away" as you so put it, into the Maggot's Nest, where Urahara even noted that the individuals there had done absolutely nothing wrong. So perhaps it's more like captains are expected to put up with annoying, lazy lieutenants if they're occasionally useful, so long as their thought processes and actions appear to be cookie cutter enough to not be considered a viable threat to the Gotei 13 in the future? Twocents 20:52, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Mayuri's case invalidates my theory. In general Captains and Lieutenants would be treated as I suggested but it wouldn't stop the punishment or execution of those who are just too dangerous to allow in the position anymore. In other words Captains & Lieutenants get a great deal of leeway but not infinitely so.

And consider that perhaps people WANTED Mayuri rehabilitated. Because as soon as he could be deemed fit he shot right up into a Captaincy as soon as one became available. And Mayuri is arguably one of the worst Captains to serve under considering the low esteem he holds his Shinigami. His loyalty to the Gotei 13 remains shaky at best. When you get down to it its only his raw power and ability that keeps him where he is. That fits the pattern I laid out pretty well. Great Cthulhu 21:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)