Talk:Sōsuke Aizen

Shikai Ability
"however, unlike the Complete Hypnosis granted by his Shikai, he no longer has control over what others perceive." Where is this stated in the manga? From what I gathered, it sounds like Aizen was sarcastically mocking Yhwach. So isn't this piece of information pure speculation; until directly stated otherwise? Besides, how does it even work if he can't control what others perceive? It doesn't really make sense.

Feminist SJW (talk)
 * I don't agree that it doesnt make sense re: how it now works. It is a step down from how it used to be sure, but I don't see how it doesn't make sense that it causes other people to see illusions and Aizen not being aware of the details of it. It is plausible. As for your main point, it is derived from pages 13-14 of chapter 683 where Aizen says "Interesting. So you see me as Kurosaki Ichigo, do you?" which indicates that he did not know what Yhwach was seeing until Yhwach said it. 14:54, August 1, 2017 (UTC)

Well that goes back to my point: the dialouge from Aizen is all about how the audience interprets it. You see it as Aizen not knowing what illusions Ywach was seeing and I see it as Aizen sarcastically mocking Yhwach; because let's be honest here, that piece of dialouge can seem plausible with both our interpretations and we have no way of finding out which one is correct until it is directly stated otheriwse. So until it is directly stated in black and white, the information that is on the page is speculation from what you think it might mean and thus should be removed until more solid evidence presents itself, if at all, in the future. Feminist SJW (talk)


 * To see it as mocking is an assumption on your part. He commented on what Yhwach saw only after Aizen was informed of what he saw not before and he commented that it was interesting to learn this. There is no reason not to add this just in case he might have been mocking him and thus being deliberately obtuse. In that way we should remove everything we have that came from explanations from characters just in case they were lying or mocking people. That logic would never work.

To see it as proof that he cannot control his illusions is also an assumption on your part. You see how that works? When he said it was irrelevant. Of course he's going to mock Yhwach when he is at his most vulnerable: after he impaled Aizen and having his back open for Ichigo to attack. The "interesting" he said was to add to his sarcasm. There is every reason not to add this; not because "just in case he might have been mocking him" but because Aizen never directly stated anything. It is your interpretation of Aizen's dialogue and not solid facts. The statement is very vague and it's meaning is assumed by you guys. Furthermore, Aizen even explained the entire battle to Ichigo during the next chapter on how he used his hypnosis on Yhwach. If Aizen's hypnosis really was weakened, do you really think that Kubo would leave out such an important and intriguing piece of information for the fans?

"In that way we should remove everything we have that came from explanations from characters just in case they were lying or mocking people. That logic would never work"-you said it yourself; the keyword is explanation. What Aizen said here was not an "explanation". It was dialogue that can have more than one plausible interpretation like ours. Please inform me of what other information this wikia has included which is similar to this one.

On a related note, I could argue that the "Energy Beam" Kugo Ginjo fired in his Bankai state was a cero. It had the exact same look and charge to it and the anime also used the exact same noise for the blast. Not to mention that Kigo even said he has a bit of hollow inside him. But nope, even with all the visual evidence it is still speculation until directly stated.

Another more solid example would be the "Cero Oscuras". Ulquiorra directly stated that the Cero Oscuras was something that the Espadas can fire in their release states. So why have you not put the Espadas down as the users on the Cero Oscuras page but instead just put Ulquiorra? Is it because Ulquiorra is the only one that has been shown using it? I mean, he even said that the Espadas can use it in their release forms right? But when it comes to the Gran Rey Cero, you put the users down as the Espadas. Why is that? Don't tell me that it's because you saw Szayel use it in the movie... I thought movies weren't canon? So in the entire manga series, the only Espada who used the Gran Rey Cero was Grimmjow but I don't see any mention of that on the page..?

Main point is: the "facts" on Aizen's page is literally your speculation. This is a very simple case of your interpretation vs my interpretation of a very vague dialogue where nothing is directly stated. This dialogue is too vague to put down as solid facts without any other concrete evidence but you refuse to accept this and keep on arguing that your interpretation is the correct one here. I just don't think it's a wise idea to put your speculation on the page, brand it as a fact and mislead fans without any real evidence. I thought that this wikia was against publishing speculation or do admins have a free pass? Feminist SJW (talk)


 * It is a fact that Aizen asked that, it happened. He made Yhwach hallucinate and questioned him on the hallucination. Due to the limited nature of text versus speech in manga, they usually show that it was done in a sarcastic way. The same with Cero, in the Manga when it was used it was made clear that it was a Cero. And it is not presented as fact it is presented as "here is the citation of where this information comes from" as if it was presented as fact it couldn't be changed as facts are indisputable and cannot be changed. It is a conclusion based on strong evidence to back it up. If it is ret-conned to a mocking tone it can be altered as such. And yes we have had things on the Wiki that were based on what was stated at the time. we listed Rangiku as deceased at one point because Gin stated that he killed her. With no other information, we stated as such. When it was revealed he was lying and he merely knocked her out we altered it based on that information. When another character said Byakuya was dead we said that he was dead as we had no other evidence. When he was revealed to be alive we fixed it again. It had nothing to do with the "I think.." users, we have what is and what isn't. If you have issues with other articles, open a discussion there, this one is futile, I have had permission from the Crat to close it and I will do. Although I have been told to reword it and I will.