Forum:Is a vaste lorde the pinacle of the hollow race? If so could they own a bankai?

Ok I know people r gonna shoot me down 4 this but here goes....... REMEMBBR i'm only specualating so don't get 2 emotional, The possiblity of what i'm saying happening is extremely slim i know that much. Ok A vizard can aquire a mask and maybe another transformation, which maybe one of the reasons Shinji wanted ichigo to complete his training and truely master his vizard powers. So incidents like when his mindless hollow form attacked Ishida wouldn't happen (Speculating). So far all the Esparda except one have demonstrated a sealed and an unsealed form with the exception of one the forth esparda who went a stage higher than everyone else. Personally I think the 4th esparda was the strongest of all the esparda, but forget that on with the suject at hand. Do u think we will meet Vaste Lorde that will be saying bankai? Yeah Yeah I know I know we don't know much about Vizard, esparda and even less about vaste lorde. Are esparda and vaste lorde related, obviously they hold different positions on the food chain and could Aizen make an artifical Vaste Lorde if the hollow was powerfully enough And would it share some of the same triats as esparda? I mean so far we have seen Esparda who look human and carry a soul slayer, but the vizards can use cero, sonido (Mindless ichigo I don't know if any of the vizards can conciously use it, bbut they have had more time to discover more about there vizard powers and shinji did use cero), And can go up another stage(speculation mindless ichigo). Maybe an artificial Vaste lorde could own a bankai if created with the Hōgyoku? I know it breaks down the barriers separating hollows and death Gods, but does that mean they have access to all or only selected abilities of their counter parts? Or is a bankai the equivilant of a Resurrección or Segunda Etapa? I'm Speculating hoping the veterans in this forum can shed some light on the subject Anakin69 14:32, 29 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Vasto Lordes are the highest form of Hollow; that much you have right. However, they are still that:  Hollows.  This means that, unless proven otherwise, they do not carry a Zanpakto, which means that they cannot achieve Bankai.  As well, and someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but evolution from Adjutas to Vasto Lorde is a natural evolution, but use of the Hōgyoku would only transform a Hollow into an Arrancar or a Shinigami into a Vizard.


 * So, to simply answer your question in the title: Yes, the Vasto Lorde is the pinnacle of the Hollow race, but no, they cannot achieve Bankai. Angeluscado 15:38, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok I was actually with you for a bit till you starting asking about the vasto lorde. The answer is im sure at some point we will see Vasto Lorde, having said that. No they cannot use bankai they would have to have shikai first and even more important then those two things they would have to have a zanpakuto which hollow dont have. Vasto Lorde and Espada are related in that Arrancar where once hollows and now they are more then hollows. But Arrancar are outside the normal evolution of a hollow. No Aizen can't just make a creature, it is hard for a hollow to evolve and even harder if not impossible to become a vasto lord. To date all aizen has done is finished the the process of an arrancar becoming a true arrancar, using the orb of distortion, i turn that was hollow which had at some point became arrancar but their process of transformation was not full or complete. So it had to be done artificially. The espada are just a system of power ranking any arrancar could be one depending on how powerful they are in comparison to other arrancar. The only trait among espada would be power level which can very over time. The vizard are shinigami who have gained hollow powers and use we have seen shinji use cero and who knows what else he or by what we have seen ichigo can do, or any vizard can do for that matter. The basic problem is vasto lorde are just hollow. Not if one was a arrancar then it would have a resurreccion but that is all an Arrancar has, there is no actual equivalent of a arrancar's release and that of a shinigami's shikai and bankai. If you also know arrancar gain shinigami-like abilities but the powers are hollow based. Sonido is their version of flash steps, then look more humanoid then a hollow normally would. they have hierro to protect themselves and make themselves more durable. Hollow versions but nothing really shingiami as the skills shinigami use have to be taught. They gain a zanpakuto. The important thing to notice there is that it is a zanpakuto in name only. It is not a part of their soul that is a separate sentient spirit like the shinigami possess, for arrancar it is their true hollow powers/form sealed away in a sword that is the reason why their release is called a resurreccion as they are just unsealing their true power, it doesn't do what a true zanpakuto does. The fact the Ulquiorra has a second form is pretty weird but the fact is the only thing we actually know about him in general regardless of the form is that he is more powerful then those ranked lower then him. It would be speculation to think he was more powerful then anyone of higher rank as we have no proof he has ever fought anyone higher that we know of. All we know is the ichigo in whatever the new form is, is more powerful then him and even then we only seen ichigo fight him in that form so we dont know how powerful in comparison to anyone else that form is if we are talking about ichigo. So basically when they release how powerful they are is just determined by the spiritual power level. As shown you can be an espada and more powerful then most arrancar but apparently the power level is varied from the 10 on up and depending on the opponents level of power you can be taken out easy or not. Rukia killed the 9th, mayuri killed the 8th, byakuya killed the 7th, ichigo defeated the 6th, Zaraki killed the 5th, Hollow Ichigo was instrumental in the killing the 4th. Also Angeluscado gave a complete accurate explanation to reinforce what he said. let me know if i didn't explain something lol. Salubri 15:51, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

ok lol.........

Thanks guys u shed some light on that subject. So could an arrancar have the power to rival a vaste lorde? would a vaste lorde be the Equivilant of Genryusai someone whose polished their skills and reached their fighting abilities limit? Anakin69 16:58, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

An arrancar by nature of what it is would surpass a normal shinigami in power as it would possess twice the power of a shinigami or hollow separately. So it stands to reason that it can surpass a hollow, now which class of hollow is left to chance, but considering we know so little about vasto lorde and what they are truly capable of its hard to say. Once again I dont know if the General can take a vasto lorde, i would think that a vasto lorde is more powerful then a average captain but the general is anything but average. If i was to speculate considering how old and powerful he is i would think he must have come across at least one in his life, he may have even defeated it, who knows.Salubri 18:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

ok so we can say that the soul society captains won't bbe involved in the conflict with the vaste lorde? from what i seen they struggled with the esparda I dont really see them really fighting on the same level as a vaste lorde. Maybe the older captains may stand a chance but do u think the threat would be dealt with by the royal guard? I know Aizen has thought a head he most probably gathered some vaste lorde he isn't going to go to the kings dimension with just Gin and Tousen? I know he has illusionary soul slayer but how many times is gonna use the same trick? will it even work against Royal guard captains as well as it did against soul society captains?

Salubri u've got a point though he must have come a cross a vaste lorde or someone else did, maybe thats how they could estimate a vaste lorde's strength bbut could they vary in strength Anakin69 20:20, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Well all i know is that whether they want to or not its their job so if there is a conflict they will most likely play some roll. Also while it is true that the top 3 have been a struggle at least for Hitsugaya and Soifon. What we know of bleach is that battles make you stronger the more you go into and go full force the stronger you become. So if they make it out of these battles they will be stronger for it. The issue with the royal guard is we know they are made up of former captains, but we still don't know how many there are and what level of power they have compared to the Gotei 13, Kido Corps or Secret Mobile Force. Or even what there position affords them in terms of powers and abilities. Aizen may have gathered some but we don't know, what we do know is that there arent many of them there might be 10 or 12 or 13 maybe, who knows but we do know that all Aizen needs is 10 of them to completely destroy soul society. Personally I get the impression that he is using Tosen's on philosophy against him, but he is good a manipulation. Also Gin is obviously a sociopath ever since he was a kid something was off about him, and Aizen is closer to him with them seeming like good friends where Tosen acts more like a simple servant. I also personally think Aizen's zanpakuto is just weak plot wise, how do you beat something like that unless you are blind, its overpowered and yes I would hope he would use more then relying on that as usual. Like i said who knows of the royal guards power and even more so who know what he would get himself into in the kings dimension he may get more then he bargained for, though the town plays a prominent role in the series i doubt he will succeed in destroying it. About the vasto lorde's strength once again we cant be sure but apparently some hollow and arrancar are more powerful then others and possess certain unique abilities between them so its logical to assume their powers may also vary.Salubri 20:37, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Lol yeah i see what ur saying u got a lot of valid points but one thing could u see Gin out growning Aizen and betraying him or leaving Aizen when he is in a tight spot and taking over where Aizen left off. Its kind of like a situation where the white Knights train the dragons and get devoured in the end, I don't really see Gin playing second fiddle forever. At the same time I don't really think that would happen cause Aizen is a really interesting character, in the sense that like kisuke he always has something up his sleve. There is something not quite right with Gin like u said, he's always confortable in situations where people would be sweating their asses off like when they were caught by kisuke in the hollowfication incident, When he had the confrontation with Toshiro and when he was caught by rangiku just before they escaped with the hollows. Anakin69 22:33, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

True enough i could see Gin outgrowing but he doesn't seem like his personality would match leading in any significant way. He just dont care. Aizen was interesting but im losing interest in him fast, its like he basically showed you everything before he left soul society what else is there left really. At least Urahara is mysterious as far as what he knows and isn't really telling but Aizen is like you know what he is about and what his goal is. You know he's powerful its just not interesting its like he is to overconfident and why it may seem like he knows all and is steps ahead how far ahead is he. I guarantee when it comes to the royal guard and the spirit king it would be a different issue. I just dont know Gins motivation for anything. Salubri 23:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)