Bleach Wiki:Translation Corner/Archive 10

White Bone Hell and Blood Pond Hell
So, currently we're listing the two hot springs in the Kirinden as the White Bone Hell and the Blood Pond Hell. However, Cnet's translation, which is generally much more accurate, lists the White Bone Hell as the Skeletal Pit and the Blood Pond Hell as the Bloody Inferno. Would you mind taking a look at the kanji and determining what the proper translation would be? --Xilinoc (talk) 16:37, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
 * White Bone Hell - 白骨地獄, Hakkotsu Jigoku
 * Blood Pond Hell - 血の池地獄, Chi no Ike Jigoku

Thanks to Xilinoc for posting the Kanji. Based on those above Kanji, our current translations can stay. While hakkotsu is used to mean/translate "skeleton", it more lit. = "bare/white bone(s)", and what is a skeleton but a body's bones stripped bare? It's previously been used with more lit. intent in BLEACH in that ch. title during the Starrk/Kyouraku fight which was all about colors (via "Irooni"), 374: "Grey Wolf - Red Blood - Black Garb - White Bone" (灰狼・赤血・黒衣・白骨 Kairou - Sekketsu - Kokui - Hakkotsu).

The original Japanese, of course, suffers no such problems (more poetic or more literal?), as it can mean either of these things--the "trouble" (if there's any) then being a bit of ambiguity as to which is intended ... unless Kubo wanted both to be possible to add nuance, which seems plausible.

I suppose, though, that it then comes down to preference and consistency, this last being arrived at, maybe, by comparison with the similar nomenclature with "official" Hells, like the "black rope(s)/cord(s)" (Kokujou). This is similar to the way that chi no can be translated as "~ of blood" (rendering it lit. as noun + genitive particle) OR "blood(y) ~" (rendering it as the genitive particle no transforming the noun "blood" into an adjective, which is one of the functions of no).

Maybe I just lean more toward "White Bone" because of a combination of the above considerations and because we get a nice "syllabic synergy" with it comparing to the other one named: White - Bone, Blood - Pond XD. Adam Restling (talk) 09:42, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Wandenreich
According to a "origin questionable" (as probably not by Kubo, but by editors at Jump) release known as "The Dagger", which is a Bleach review page released by Weekly Shonen Jump, during Bleach Hiatus. The usage of the name Wandenreich was placed on the page in English. General Issue is we dont commonly go by the raw here and we dont go by content that Kubo himself didnt officially release and we dont know if he actually wrote any of this or if this is the opinion review from people at jump.--

Here's the Chinese scan, and the Japanese raw. It's printed clearly in English letters, and is consistent in pronunciation with the Japanese transliteration.

Could somebody please confirm that they look at that and see English letters which clearly spell "Wandenreich"? Thanks.Andrew Crichton (talk) 01:22, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Don't be afraid, everyone: I can see Wandenreich, too. XD

Well, while the exact "purity of extraction" (from Kubo, or, somehow, "only" JUMP) of † BLEACH The Dagger † may remain unclear, the situation, therefore, doesn't seem much different from that of the databooks and related material we took the other romanizations from--or, indeed, the Kubo-produced names and titles featured in the weekly vs. the volume chapters. The concept of "canon" has always been more elastic in BLEACH than we might like, even that canon we get from the author (!); from "You're a Shinigami and a--I mean, a human and a ...", Proyectil becoming Ola Azul, etc.

I'm really pleased we're getting so many (so-far) apparent "official" romanizations for these guys so early, compared to those we did for the Arrancar ... even if it's still not as early as I'd've hoped.

It makes me wonder, though: where did Kubo get the first element for this word Wandenreich? The closest word I can find in my dictionaries is Wand, which means "wall", "face (as of a wall, cliff, etc)", but is also used similarly for "partition, edge, precipice"; however, in a compound with it, we should prob. expect, rather, *Wandreich instead (although I agree that Wand en reich has a better cadence).

The underlying Japanese of Wandenreich, Miezaru Teikoku, do mean "unseen/invisible empire", but I suppose use of Wand "wall" or some derivative of it--if this is the origin of Wanden---could make sense, in the sense of "walled-off/sheltered (from sight)", the same way the Arabic jinnī ("invisible [spirit]", the source of English genie) is held to derive from the Semitic root gnn "cover, surround".

P.S. Based on the parallel spellings Wandenreich and below (split into two columns for concerns of space) as Wanden reich, this would seem to suggest a similar treatment for Sternritter--i.e., that we should prob. spell them, respectively, as Wandenreich, Sternritter (and I think we still spell the latter as two words, *Stern Ritter, on this Wiki--but I can't quite remember). Seemed appropriate to just briefly bring that up here. :) Adam Restling (talk) 10:22, July 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks Adam. On the Stern Ritter / Sternritter issue, it was previously brought up (here) and the discussion seemed to indicate that it was initially split due to spacing issues but later uses of the word show it as one continuous word. I don't have access to raws to check that out but I'm sure someone can provide them (hopefully). Btw, here are somewhat higher quality raws for the Dagger in case you need them. 12:38, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Stern Ritter
In the same publication there is a page on stern ritter that we basically need to know what the page itself says. The raw can be found here: http://24.media.tumblr.com/bf17e96b9e156ad74196826518500c47/tumblr_mqjahg5aFQ1risqr3o1_500.png --

This might be a good place to start re: translations of what this, the first week of The Dagger, contains, and a good place to check for similar data/Daten ) on the following weeks as they are released.

If the translations so far are any indication (most of them via the Chinese translations of the original Japanese text), a decent amount is just clarification or reiteration of stuff we already know--but they are also useful for some additional tidbits and romanizations, it seems; and they seem to be done by people who prob. have more resources and fluency than I can command, at least overall.

Perhaps additional renderings could be made (from the Japanese raws, which are also provided at the link above) by some of the more fluent (in Japanese grammar and texts) members of the Corner, if necessary :). Adam Restling (talk) 12:57, July 28, 2013 (UTC)

Senbonzakura Kageyoshi
Having recently decided to look up the meaning of the kanji for Senbonzakura Kageyoshi's name, I was stumped when I found that none of the results give credence to translating "Kageyoshi" (景厳) as "Vibrant Display". To be more accurate, while the first kanji 景 does translate to "view, scenery" (and thus figuratively "display"), the second kanji 厳 translates to "severe, rigid, solemn", which is pretty much the opposite of "vibrant". MarqFJA (talk) 21:05, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

It's a fairly liberal translation of the Furigana (would rather be "pleasant display"), due to the fact that the Zanpakuto name uses Ateji (Kanji and Furigana which share no correlation). It's the same with Suzumushi, which has Kanji that means something else (more like "clean bug"). I'm not a member of the corner, but that's the reason why the translation doesn't seem to match. Andrew Crichton (talk) 11:51, August 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * From what I understand of the language, furigana does not overrule kanji when it comes to the actual meaning of the word, only in the pronunciation itself. MarqFJA (talk) 20:01, August 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * That is correct. I was going to bring up Suzumushi to ask if it should be changed to reflect an actual translation of the kanji rather than the furigana, as a proper translation of the kanji makes the connection between Shikai and Bankai a lot clearer. Realistically both meanings should be listed for all cases of Ateji (Minadzuki, Suzumushi, Senbonzakura Kageyoshi, Gegetsuburi(?)), since it's meant to operate like a pun. Andrew Crichton (talk) 22:34, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Cang Du
Apparently this guy has both kana and Chinese characters given for his name. Not entirely sure if they are correct, but these are what someone tried to put in: 蒼都 (ツアン·トウ)

Here's the relevant RAW. -- Mohrpheus  (Talk)  07:12, July 1, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ack, doesn't allow hotlinking. Mohrpheus   (Talk)  01:41, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Cang Du (蒼都) seems to tap good old Mandarin Chinese, whence the superscript (furigana) katakana reading Tsan Tu (ツァン·トゥ), approximating the Mandarin pronunciation [tsʰang tu]--the Japanese pronunciation of the Kanji would be Sou To or the like. Note the small ァ (a) and ゥ (u), compared to the approximations above.

Because of the interpunct ( • ) between them, it's probable, in that ol' Eastern order, that Cang is his surname, and Du his given name (whether this ever comes up is uncertain ;) ). 都 can mean "capitol, metropolis"; "(the) all, whole" (? < "capital amount")"; or "fine, elegant" (? < "metropolitan"). 蒼 is "blue" or "pale" again (it turns up here and there in other BLEACH names/terms). Adam Restling (talk) 05:28, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Stern Ritter Titles
Looking at the previous request for Quilge's epithet, it strikes me that all the Schrift for the Stern Ritter are done just like the Arrancar's Zanpakuto names are. Could we have the romanji and translations for the kanji?

Quilge - 監獄 Driscoll - 大量虐殺 Loyd/Royd - 貴方自身 Berenice - 異議 Jerome - 咆哮

-- Mohrpheus  (Talk)  23:58, July 15, 2013 (UTC)


 * You menat like that ?

or also like that :

Mad6 (talk) 10:04, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, Mad really went the whole nine yards giving us all that info, thanks :)!

I don't have all the raws to help with these--and those I do are often more blurry than is helpful when it comes to the furigana--but, from what I *think* I can see, the above seem correct.

All that's really left to me, then, seems to be a couple of notes, which may only be worthwhile to myself XD: 大量虐殺 "massacre, genocide" (as Mad noted) is more lit. "great amount" + "atrocity" (< "oppress" + "kill")--that's fun; 貴方自身 "yourself" specifically combines 貴方 "you" (polite) + 自身 "(one's) self". Interesting usages to note. Adam Restling (talk) 11:52, July 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * No need to thanks Adam ;) It wasn't THAT easy to right read them, as I too have blurry ones, but I'm glad You verified all of them as correct :) and Adam, Could You take a look at my post about Haschwalth Grandmaster and ''Emperor's Advisor" titles to verify if I'm correct. Mad6 (talk) 13:11, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Nimaiya's bodyguards
Their names are revealed in tankobon edition of the chapter. — talk 01:53, August 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * (Bodyguard 1)
 * (Bodyguard 2)
 * (Bodyguard 3)
 * (Bodyguard 2)
 * (Bodyguard 3)

Meanings of kanji of Nimaiya's bodyguards' names
Something occurred to me recently. Nimaiya's bodyguards are Zanpakutō in human shape, which would mean their names are their Zanpakutō names. Since we always list the meaning of the kanji present in a Zanpakutō's name, could someone post the meanings of their names so we can add it to the article?--Xilinoc (talk) 23:24, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Despite being Zanpakutou, these “Zanpakukko” (you might could call them) seem to have names meant to emulate strange/archaized versions of real names. However, their names generally refer to their function in the Zanpakutou forging process, or some trait(s) of it.

Mera, being katakana, is of uncertain (if any) meaning. Hiuchigashima could mean “kindling island”. The Kanji rendered hiuchi, which would seem normally to be “fire-striking” (火打ち, i.e. “striking sparks [like with flint] to kindle fire”), is 燧 “(signal) fire”; ga, rendered as it sometimes is by small ke (ヶ), is usually the conjunctive particle ga, which in rarer and older formations can seemingly be used for possessive/adjectival. Combining this with shima “island”, I would render it “kindling island”, as it could be seen as embracing the multiple meanings intimated by both Kanji and furigana-born intended reading (which itself shades meaning). Mera does strike the fire, igniting and blowing it, in the forging process.

Tokie is “time bay” (bay as in the body of water). Tonokawa is “whetstone river”. This would seem to refer to the “river” (pail of water) she pores onto the molten sword (to hone it like a whetstone, I guess), forming a “bay” at the appropriate time in the process (?).

Hasuka (katakana hasu + Kanji for “flower”) prob. means “lotus flower” (with ハス for 蓮 “lotus”). There is a word hasuka in Japanese, used to mean “Nelumbonaceae (plant family)”, sometimes called the “lotus-lily family”, but this is spelled with katakana hasu (prob. for “lotus”, 蓮) + the Kanji 科 “department, course, section”—sic the “hasu/lotus family”. Hashihara means “chopstick field”. She catches hold of the tempered sword between her pigtails, as one would a bit of food between chopsticks.

Nonomi combines a double hiragana no with mi (美) “fair, beautiful”. I guess you could “translate” this as “nono beauty”, but if nono was intended to have a meaning, it’s impossible to discern what that might be. More likely it was meant to echo, by metathesis, the surname. Nomino is “chisel field” (nomi can also mean “drill, bore”, but it seems like chiseling was more likely when dealing with a sword). She assists, it seems, Tokie in the honing/tempering of the molten sword.

Tsumiko is “sin child”, although tsumi also means “fault, guilt, crime” in general, without the religious trappings; this could reference her dark, concealing clothing and quietness. Tsuchimiya is “hammer shrine”, with her turning one of her own pulled teeth (torn from its “shrine” in her mouth???—this could well just be a “completion” of her name from a single word, the same way field is in the others) into a hammer that Nimaiya uses to beat the smelted sword into shape. Adam Restling (talk) 01:56, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Haschwalth Stern Ritter's Grandmaster Tile
I am not sure about my interpretation of his title of Stern Ritter's Grandmaster, but as far as I see from raw it goes like : 星十字騎士団 (シュテルンリッター) Shuterunrittā, [最高位], Saikōi [グランドマスター] Gurandomasutā) which Kanji literally means a : pride of place;  most prominent;  top-ranking, and as "Emperor's Advisor" 補佐 (Hosa) and it literally means : aid;  help;  assistance;  assistant;  counselor;  counsellor;  adviser;  advisor, and I leave it to You Guys, officially working in Translation Corner to decide how to properly spell his titles. here I put link to raws if would be needed to verification. Have a nice day Guys ;) Mad6 (talk) 13:11, September 7, 2013 (UTC)