User talk:Renji Abarai

This is my talk! Msg me if you need anything, XD, or you don't like one of my edits, >=(.

Tosen/Byakuya
I knew you were going to go there but my edits aren't in question Byakuya is a kido master to say you have to be kido captain isnt true, because by that definition Kenpachi is the only master swordsman in all soul society since hes the captain of the 11th division who specializes in swordsmanship. While Byakuya isnt as fast as yoruichi he is a master at flashsteps. Soifon isnt as fast as Yourichi but shes pretty close so i guess she isnt a master either. The point being he has use of high kido anyone who does and knowledge is a kido master, Aizen was never kido captain and hes a master of kido. As for tosen check again if he wasnt worth his skill he would have not even bothered to fight Kenpachi there is no question of his skill. By your definition anyone who kenpachi defeats has no skill at swordsmanship that's not the case. Salubri 05:18, 25 February 2009 (UTC) No, not just Kenpachi. He cannot even use Shikai(correctly.) If you read what I put people who show real skill deserve master, and Kenpachi's the only one w/out Bankai that fits the criteria. Captains Byakuya Kuchiki, General Yamamoto, Shunsui Kyoraku, Jushiro Ukitake, the captain Vizard, and some of the Espada all fit the criteria as well. But the point is just because someone's really strong does not make themn a master swordsman. I see where you're going with Kido, and I guess Tosen could be a master but Ichigo, Ikkaku, Renji and Toshiro are not(these are just examples.) They're very high in skill but their Bankais aren't mastered like Byakuya's, nor can they fight exceptionally well using just Shikai. I think we need to figure out how to categorize between masters and experts in swordsmanship because it just seems ridiculous that so many characters are near flawless using a sword, especially when they Lose.--Renji Abarai 06:08, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I read what your wrote over there but i think your going too deep, the master qualification is not based entirely on bankai its based more on the users skill with his weapon. The last time i checked Ichigo beat 3 captains and an espada. Ikkaku has been training others in swordsmanship for years not to mention both he and reniji attained their bankai, at below captain status mind you, on their own merit based on mastery of their zanpakuto which is required to attain bankai (what your talkin about the 100yrs or so required to fully master it but that's a portion of skill learned over time, not what is taken into account to measure mastery), but more so on their skill with fighting with their sword in general. Toshiro is a captain and more then that a child prodigy, making him a master in many shinigami arts before he is a actual adult. Its no question what his skill is its been show cased many times without bankai in certain cases. Its explained or at least should be in the profiles why anyone is considered what they are in their qualifications. It doesnt take away from the high placed masters cause its explained why they are good but that a reflection on their skill not something in comparison to anyone else. Also by your own estimation Kenpachi who doesnt know his zanpakuto's name and therefore is incapable of bankai is a master. He doesnt need bankai to be a master cause hes that good with his weapon. Not everyone is classified as a master just those who are seen to be such. Mayuri is not even listed as having any swordsmanship skill at all cause he has not been shown to have real fighting skills so far. Yoruichi has not been listed as such either cause no one has even seen her zanpakuto to know if she is proficient at it. Strength of the character is entirely separate from their skill with a sword. Espada dont even have bankai but a good amount of them are masters as swordsmanship. Salubri 06:43, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree with your points( I wanted to prove mine but yours are very good also); I'm going to leave the whole swordsmanship deal alone now, but I am going to edit Zanjutsu, since I believe we should at least elaborate a little more on swordsmanship(EVERY Character uses a sword so it makes sense.) To be honest I just feel like doing something about it....Renji Abarai 03:03, 26 February 2009 (UTC)