Forum:Shunsui and Ukitake's Power

I personally have been into bleach since 2007 and have always heard about how powerful Shunsui and Ukitake are, yet have never seen them do much. The General who we all know to be extremely powerful has even confirmed that the two are most powerful captains in previous generations or the current. Its not until the past couple of chapters has it become apparent how powerful these captains are and what we know about their power is not what we originally thought and now we are learning we know little of anything about the power they have. But what we are learning is how incredibly powerful they are if only just getting a glimpse. Katen Kyokatsu can make child's play into reality, something so simple in the real world can easily be dangerous and give advantage to Shunsui, who knows beside the 4 we have seen what other games it plays and this is all still in shikai too. It now makes more sense why Ukitake tells him not to show his bankai where others can see, i cant even begin to imagine what that can do. Then there is Ukitake he is sick all the time and he doesn't get involved in fights normally but when he does its crazy and then you see how Sogyo no Katawari can redirect energy attacks, once again I don't think we are seeing everything and its becoming more apparent there are more to meets the eye with these captains and their zanpakuto.Salubri 16:09, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I just really hope that Ukitake has some sweet ability besides the reverse of the persons attack. Which is awesome enough in its own right. But i just feel that he should have something more. Jordanbobordan88

And thats what makes them so interesting. Its like the story is showing the hugh power gap between General and the other captains. But its teasing us with the in between. I mean they had no problems with facing off with him head on and even said he is falling off or I might say getting rusty. Now that have to give some type idea of how strong they really are. Thats is the reason I like these two. They know how strong they are but yet instead of proving it to everyone they only use their strength when need be. Tealang99 17:43, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

It was really interesting. When Shunsui went down with that cero and Ukitake was floored by Wonderweiss, everybody started talking about how the Gotei 13 were finished and didn't have anything more to offer. Especially when the Vizards showed-up. Even when it was made clear that the Kyoraku was fine, thanks to Lisa stomping on his head, people still thought it was going to be the Vizards vs the Espada show. As it turned out, Rose and Love with mask + shikai are not equal to Kyoraku with just his shikai. There is a reason Kyoraku is what he is. Scary, truly scary. Especailly since you wouldn't pick him for someone so terrifying given his laziness and general playfulness. Tinni 06:28, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

I think what is scary is that they are beyond the point of trying to get more power. You never hear, so far, of those two or Uno and the General trying to acheive more strength or abilities. They are so confident when the fight and they know no matter who they face they will only use whats needed to defeat them no more no less. Just like the latest chapter said that Shunsui wanted to gradually give the details of the game his zanpakuto wanted to play. He didnt just go all out. He still keeps some of his abilities to himself unless he has to. Tealang99 13:01, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Well, Tinni. Kyoraku is one of the oldest captains and has a lot of battle experience. Love and Rose may have hollow powers but they can't keep their masks for that long and obviously aren't as experienced as Kyoraku. And the fight per se isn't just about power. Some abilities are just best against certain enemies. Kyoraku's shikai's special ability may not kill Stark but will surely hit cause some nasty injuries. We'll see next week.. Deimonos 01:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You are preaching to the choir! I never doubted that Kyoraku > most of the vizards. Simply put, for someone like Aizen, who has hit the limits of the Shinigami body making the transition to vizard gives him loads and loads of power. No one said that the majority of the vizards have hit the limits of the shinigami body and so even with their vizard powers might not be as powerful as some of the just shinigami captains. I also get annoyed when people say thing like "the vizards have been training for 100 years! All of them must be uber powerful and everybody must have bankai". 100 years is not a lot to a shinigami besides which, the way I see it, most of these people are probably at the edge of what they can achieve in terms of power. So more training isn't going to make them any more powerful. If I am make an analogy, after a certain point in time Usain Bolt can't run any faster no matter how hard and how long he trains. He's peaked and that all there is to it! Tinni 02:57, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I don't think that just because they've been training for 100 years that it would immediately make them more powerful than all the captains. After all, Kyouraku and Ukitake have been training for 2000 years now, from what I've heard, because they were the first students out of the academy that yamamoto set up. If it isn't right, they've at least trained for a very long time. I think that that has to count for some things. I'm sure that they have much more power than they've let on, and that's enforced with the latest chapter.KnowledgeandImagination 03:15, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the vizards either, yea they have been doing some struggling themselves but we know they more powerful then a shinigami and a hollow would be on their own, they seem more or less to be holding back just as Shunsui and Ukitake were in their fight. Besides Kensei, Rose and Love no other one has released shikai yet and there is still bankai as well. Not to mention the full range of hollow abilities aren't possibly being shown, we have enough of the mask fighting with ichigo, has anyone noticed they are essentially doing the same thing here. Wheres the versatility that comes with 100 years. Yes 100 years maybe different for shinigami but alot can still happen in that time. Training is not enough these guys wanted justice they wanted vengeance as well. If it takes 10 years to learn bankai and 10 years to master it, then its pretty safe to say they most likely all have it (mashiro, Hachi, Lisa and Hiyari that is). But this situation doesn't take away from them or the other captains, as i stated before there is a reason the general holds shunsui and ukitake in such high regard and there is a reason he says they are the most powerful captain in previous generations or the current. It doesn't mean everyone else is less powerful it just means that these two are on another level. 100 years from now Shunsui states that hitsugaya may even pass him because he's a genius. The fact is the rose and love aren't putting anymore effort into the fight then shunusi and ukitake was initially, are they as powerful as them i don't know i try not to even go there but if i had to surmise id say you wouldnt want a vizard shunsui and ukitake as the current vizard may not have been on their level as shinigami but they are something else now and they have something more then they arent showing as vizard. Being what they are they have access to more power then a shingimi does hence the whole display of power that even amazed the captains with abilities they werent capable of, so we can assume they are powerful then most captains in their certain ways though if anyone could stand against up there with them would be shunusi and ukitake, but i give them the same amount of respect i give Shunsui and Ukitake they are former shinigami and deserve their revenge not to mention interesting characters with a whole new set of abilities and zanpakuto to explore. Im not sure why people are talking about them as if they are the problem when they came to help and get their vengence against aizen.Salubri 03:35, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

true. i suppose people just talk about them as the problem because they all wanted to see other captain's fight the espada, instead of just the vizards. I suppose that I was just a little disappointed that we don't see the other captains take out any espada as well. I don't deny that they're strong. I do believe that it is very probable that they have bankai. But I also do want to see Kyouraku and Ukitake's full potential. But I'm not saying that we've seen all the vizard's potentials as well. Please don't take me wrong. I am glad that they came to fight Aizen.KnowledgeandImagination 05:00, September 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well Love, Rose, Shinji and Kensei were captains so we know they have bankai. I just do not believe Lisa, Hiyori, Hachi or Masiro developed bankai during their 100 years away from the Gotei 13. They could have of course, but my understanding of bankai is that it is only ever achieved by a few shinigami regardless of training and/or reiatsu. In addition, neither Hachi nor Masiro seem particularly found of their zanpakuto. Hachi prefers kido, Masiro hand to hand combat. So their 100 years of training might well have been spent mastering hollow forms and adapting them to their preferred style of combat. But of course we'll have to wait and see about who has bankai and who doesn't. I also wasn't discounting the vizards, just saying that I think the Gotei 13 was brushed aside by many fans too soon when the vizards showed-up. If the recent chapter has shown us anything it is that Bleach is still full of surprises :) Tinni 05:56, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Tinni, not just anyone can achieve bankai with ten years of training. Zaraki certainly hasn't, and that's because he doesn't train with his zanpakuto, he trains just himself. So Hachi and Mashiro may not have bankai as they only train themselves. And Lisa and Hiyori might not have the reiatsu to get bankai. It seems to me as though Hiyori is very in touch with her hollow powers so perhaps that's what she's worked on rather than bankai. Whatever, i'm just repeating Tinni, but I can't wait to see more of Kyoraku and Ukitake's power. BollyW 06:16, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with that as well. I was just thinking that there could be a possibility, since they're are obviously powerful, cause they could take out all those hollows, so they possibly have the potential. but it is questionable whether or not they have it. Ah well, I'm more interested in Kyouraku and Ukitake's powers, and I do wish that the other captains aren't finished yet, and there's something more for them to be able to do. Otherwise, the idea of the captain's powers would seem dead.KnowledgeandImagination 06:28, September 20, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, yeah, I suppose Love and Rose are indeed holding back. They wanna get rid of Stark but don't feel like showing all their stuff right there before facing Aizen, Gin and Tousen. My point in the other post was not explained very well, but basically like Salubri said, Ukitake, Kyoraku and Unohana could be considered just on "another level". As for the other captains, I think we could say like that the former captains could be stronger than the current ones (that weren't captains back then), like Soi Fon, Hitsugaya.. but anything can happen.. Deimonos 13:00, 20 September 2009 (UTC)