Talk:Zangetsu (Zanpakutō spirit)

Adjuchas-class or higher?
I think that the note about possibly being an adjuchas should be removed, because of the paragraph before stating:"If Ichigo were ever to turn into a complete hollow, it would be the end of the world, according to the Shinigami." I think that would be enough to illustrate his power, and anyway, how would a mere adjuchas be the end of the world when even Rukia can kill one? Wouldnt that be a decrease in power, because Ichigo easily "kills" an adjuchas (it turns out the adjuchas is still alive later, but thats what you get for not releasing Bankai). If it says anything about a possible hollow class, I think it should say possibly Vasto Lorde.Crimmastermind 06:33, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking of the same thing

I'm not sure if the "end of the world" statement is even in the manga, but I won't touch it for now. However, I have removed claims of Hollow Ichigo being an adjuchas or vasto lorde. Technially, both classes are made up of multiple hollows, with one's willpower in control. While his strength is at least as strong as an adjuchas-class hollow, Hollow Ichigo is still technically a singular hollow, since he hasn't consumed other souls or hollows in all of Bleach canon. Arrancar109 21:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)



His name is NOT Ogihci.
Look here. A mirror writing is different from a backward spelling. Now let's take a word like bid. What is the backward spelling of this word? dib. Now what is the mirror writing? Same, bid. The backward spelling of Ichigo's name and the mirror writing are different things altogether. And most importantly, the mirror writing was in Japanese. I forgot to mention this in the article, but a Japanese mirror writing will deviate from an English backward spelling even further. Therefore, the Hollow Ichigo's name is not Ogihci Ikasoruk, and as he claims, we can say that he actually has no name. :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 06:36, 25 October 2008 (UTC)



Ichigo vs Ulquiorra
I think the section which say: ''While he is quite confident that he can defeat both Yammy and Ulquiorra together, Ichigo in his Vizard state could not inflict a scar on Ulquiorra. It is assumed that this is either because the Hollow's power is absolute but Ichigo is yet to learn how to use that power fully, or simply because the Hollow was underestimating Ulquiorra, and only recently gained the power to match him.'' is misleading, because it implies that Ichigo's attacks cannot damage Ulqiorra, much like his first attacks on Kenpachi. However, this is not true, since when Ichigo fired his Getsuga Tenshō at Ulquiorra, he said afterwards that it was too powerful for him to stop (though I admit that he managed to dodge it and was not really hurt as a result of the blast). Still, at least reword the paragraph (under trivia) so that it better reflects this fact.Crimmastermind 06:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I wrote the paragraph, so I guess I should be responsible for it. Okay, but until recently the fact that Ichigo's full power Getsuga couldn't even hurt Ulquiorra is true. So I think I'll just add that part (which states that even though he was unhurt Ulquiorra couldn't block it either) to the paragraph. What do you think? :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 21:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Getsuga doesn't work against Ulquiorra, even now. I think since the Grimmjow fight, Ichigo has gotten stronger, which means his hollow has gotten stronger.  That's why he was able to crack Ulquiorra's sword and force him into releasing.  Whether or not the hollow itself could beat Ulquiorra is immaterial, since Ichigo is (firmly?) in control.Big red01027 21:44, 12 February 2009 (UTC)



New Cero
This may be stupid but I think that since Ulquiorra's Cero is called Cero Oscuras meaning Dark or Black Cero, then Ichigo's Cero should be called Cero Blanco meaning White Cero (because of it white appearance). Hollow Ichigo is know for using white attacks so I'm pretty sure the color is white. The reason I say that is because most of the words that have anything to do with Hueco Mundo are Spanish words. Just a suggestion. --- Klross1.


 * There is no proof as of yet that Ichigo's cero is white. I mean yeah, it is possible that it will be, either stated by a character, or shown in the Anime (MUCH later, unfortunately), but do not forget that manga pages are naturally black and white. Just because Ichigo's new cero looks white in the manga doesn't confirm it until someone from the story (or Tite Kubo) states it. Don't forget, in the manga pages, just about every cero looks white, so it's too soon to assume that Ichigo's new cero is white. Arrancar109 19:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It's worth pointing out that the color page for chapter 353 shows that Ichigo's cero is white with a dark-pinkish trim like that on his black Getsuga Tenshou. Daisekihan 00:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * We can't take the luxury of inventing the techniques name, just because it seems to fit. If it hasn't been given an official name, then, just like Ichigo's Hollow, we can presume it has no name, or at least that it doesn't have one yet.Lia Schiffer 01:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

If I would have known that the comment I made was going to create a problem I wouldn't have put it on here. I also know that it's quite hard for one to forget that manga pages are black & white when i read various manga everyday (as i'm sure others do as well). I was just saying.. like everybody else does. It's called voicing ones opinion. If need be this "New Cero" section can be taken down by anyone if it's going to cause anymore "speculation" or "inventing" problems. (thnx:) ---Klross1.



Scarmask
One thing I had to notice was that the illustration on chapter 289, titled the Scarmask, featured a (top right quarter of a) skull face very similar to Ichigo's new Hollow mask, though there are notable differences. Do you think Kubo drew this to foreshadow Ichigo's new transformation? Its different shape and coloring might be because the design was still being processed, like Di Roy who appeared as early as in the first arc. :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 12:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

The changes to the mask are very pronounced, the horns are now pointing upwards and much longer, also the mask does not have the face of a human school. the design on it is nothing like the current mask, etc. etc. I doubt it.Killa0norris 00:34, 21 March 2009(UTC)

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/289/02-03/ before

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/350/08/ after

Compare the two mask, the only resemblance is the horns.Killa0norris 00:36, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

not sure if this is relevant but if you look at the new mask on this hollow form it has more black then his normal mask, it was original thought by many that this represented the control he had, what if this is actually the amount of the hollows powers he is accessing (similar to the tails in naruto) this would explain why when it first appeared in the series it only had 1-2 strips and increases with the strength of his opponents

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/351/02/

Fawcettp 00:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)



Automated transfer of Problem Report #23585
The following message was left by Anonymous via PR #23585 on 2009-06-25 08:08:46 UTC

Under the Fake Karakura section, it states that Hollow ichigo uses "Shunpo" to get behind Ulquiorra and rip his arm off. This is incorrect. Ulquiorra himself recognizes and distinguishes it as "Sonido"

Technically it is a shunpo but its speed is as fast as a sondio wich is faster than a shunpo the difference is when arrancar use sondio they make a vrrrm sound the shunpo does not

Yo
You know, could someone please get a picture/video from Bleach 233? Cause the Hollow taking over on that episode looked great - KingBlackChicken

energy release
should it be mentioned that whenever ichigo regains control over his body, after the hollow side takes control, there is a massive release of energy (as seen all three time the hollow has had complete control (vizard training, fighting zangetsu ep 233, and when fighting in HM)) this is great enough to shatter hachi's barrier and destroy several pillars in SS Fawcettp 09:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The Creature in his Chest.
In episode 233 there was a creature that popped out Ichigo's chest that attempted to consume Muramasa. Does anybody know what that is?--22:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * the worm thing also appears during his vizard training Fawcettp 01:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

It Looks similar to the touge of the Arrcanar when they first entered Hunco Mundo. Otherwise I am not quite sure myself, since the inner mouth of a hollow could be the touge, if you notice in the early manga and Anime Hollow have a second mouth inside their main one. -Desruprot

Hey i'm new here. i think that each vizard has a measurement like hollows. i think b/c of ichigo "naturally" became he can evolve like hollows.

Trivia clean-up
As per the junk trivia topic, I have removed the following things from the trivia section:

''Hollow Ichigo has stated that he doesn't know what he is. This could mean he might not even be a hollow, but something in between a Hollow, a Shinigami, a Vizard and an Arrancar. Also, he shows some of the ordinary Hollow characteristics, like the black eyes, but he neither has a hole nor a mask. Also, despite him being a hollow, Hollow Ichigo performs Shikai and Bankai much like a Shinigami, a feat that the Espada are not capable of. This is likely due to the fact that he was created in the very same moment as Ichigo reacquired his Shinigami powers after losing them during his first fight with Byakuya Kuchiki. As none of the inner Hollows of the rest of the Vizard was yet shown, it could be that he is a unique being.''
 * I shortened this to "Hollow Ichigo has stated that he doesn't know what he is." The rest is speculation.

When Ichigo transforms into a Hollow form during his second fight with Ulquiorra, he speaks only briefly to Orihime, though it is unknown whether this is the hollow mocking her or Ichigo speaking, though the latter is unlikely, as Ichigo doesn't remember anything after the fight.

''In his second form, despite being seemingly a berserker, Hollow Ichigo did not attack Orihime at first sight, being his only instinct was to "save" Orihime from any kind of danger, whether it's a friend or an enemy since he can't tell the difference in his current state. Why she is the only person Hollow Ichigo won't hurt is still unknown.''
 * These two were removed as we don't know that that form was controlled by Hollow Ichigo.

''It is unknown if this is truly an evolved form of his Hollow state, or something to do with the power of a Vizard. In either case, it appears that Ichigo is unable to control this power as of yet and may have to fight Hollow Ichigo again to gain that power.''
 * The remainder is either speculation or junk. --Yyp 20:07, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Inner Hollows
I think that vizard's inner "hollows" aren't hollows at all. Think about it; arrancars are the opposite of vizards and you dont hear about arrancars have inner shinigami. I'm just saying.

Take it to the forums or the blog page. The talk page is not for airing speculation or crack theories. Tinni 02:34, October 19, 2009 (UTC)