Talk:Wandenreich/Archive 1

Transcription
A short mention, since I just saw this on the current chapters and there is no seperate page for the topic as of yet. The correct transcription for what is currently called "Iacto Arme" is the german word >>Jagdarmee<<. The meaning is of course 'hunting party' as stated somewhere... This is a literal translation of hunting army, but again since Kubo does not speak german, as is clear from some previous cases, I found it worth mentioning. The pronunciation is basically what the prior transcription reads but without the 'o' (like basic japanese wordendings on 'o' and 'u') and a longer 'e', this being the 'e' like it is pronounced in "yes" for example.

Kitsune Ayanami (talk) 15:04, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't Jagdarmee be separated into 2 words? I looked up Jagdarmee with a translator and nothing came up. Then it gave the option of Jagd Armee which I clicked on and the translation was Hunting Army.Andrew2383 (talk) 06:27, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

Our translator confirmed Kitsune's comment above (thanks for that btw Kitsune!) and stated it was Jagdarmee, one rather than two words. Looking things up on translator sites is not really the best way to go about these things as they are frequently full of errors. 11:57, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

I understand. Thanks for clearing that up.Andrew2383 (talk) 13:06, April 12, 2012 (UTC)

That's it. You can of course type words like these into an translation page, but this won't do any good. The reason is that the composed word itself does not exist. In german the sense of a composed noun will (most of the time) remain even if the composition does not exist. The rule remains for composite nouns to be written together as one word and capitalized in the beginning (like every noun or name in each sentence). The same thing would be correct for Uryū's weapon, "Seelenschneider" rather then "Seele Schneider" or "Lichtregen" but i digress. Thank you very much for fixing this! Kitsune Ayanami (talk) 19:36, April 13, 2012 (UTC)

Remind You of Anything?
I don't know about anyone else, but the use of German terms, their uniforms, their methods, and their treatment of the Arrancar reminds me an awful lot of Nazis. Should we put that in a trivia section, or wait until we get confirmation or something? Daisuke Hikari (talk) 20:39, April 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, German does not mean Nazi, this would be a highly insensitive thing to enter into articles, people forget that the first country the Nazis took over was Germany so automatically aligning German terminology with Nazis is not something that should be written here!! Besides, Quincy already used German terminology in the same way that Hollows/Arrancar use spanish!!

I'm not saying it's just the German thing, but their uniforms seem to resemble S.S. uniforms, they take the Arrancar and, from what I've heard of the newest chapter, put them in camps where they force them into labor or kill them, and the Vandenreich aims to start a second war after getting massive disproportionate retribution in a previous war. I think there is evidence for it, but seeing the reaction I got, I'm glad I went and asked first. Daisuke Hikari (talk) 01:38, April 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * Stuff like this does not go into articles unless stated by Kubo.--


 * There have been many other armies or SS-like associations all over the world in history that have arrested people or taken them away, the Nazis only happened to be German!! As said, comparisons don't belong in articles unless Kubo has stated as such and besides this would be incredibly insensitive anyway!! Discussion closed!!

Luders
wasn't Luders Friegan with the Stern Ritters, so wouldn't he be a member? He was leading them to SS to declare war on Yama-ji after all. :p--RexGodwin (talk) 06:53, April 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * It does not automatically follow that he was one. We barely know anything at all about the Stern Ritter 12:26, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Image
Can the image for the vandenreich be its symbol? Makes sense. We have a clear shot of it in Bleach 490.
 * That image needs the Fair Use Rationale to be filled in first. I see no reason not to use the Vandenreich symbol, so long as it is a decent quality image. 12:26, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Techniques
Can Sun gate be added as the Vandenriech mode of transportation between world via shadows.

Ref:Chap 484, pg 10-11. Ref: Chap 490, pg 1. --Urie12 (talk) 19:27, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Vanden Reich Techniques
For Vanden Reich techniques. Can the ability to make blue fire out of condense reishi be added. Description:Blue Fire is strong enough to burn the rocks and sands of Hueco Mundo. Ref page Chap 487 pg 9.--Urie12 (talk) 22:23, April 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * No that is something belonging more on the Quincy.--

Ok. Will this info be transferred to the Quincy page. --Urie12 (talk) 22:53, April 29, 2012 (UTC)

Note on the new names
In the chapter raw, As Nodt is written with umlauts: --B14 (talk) 11:34, June 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks for that. Fixed now. 11:45, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

Number of SternRitters
I have looked though most of the chapters and believe there is between 9 to 11 SternRitters, since we don't know names as of yet for most of these characters, might me post images of them in the gallery and label and make pages for them after we know more about them?--LeafGreen Ranger (talk) 21:08, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

I just checked all chapters from the invasion on SS, and calculated most certainly 18 Sternritters including second Lloyd. I have them all here: I forgot to place another Lloyd on the picture and there are Quilge and the one fighting Rukia but i think it just might be Buzzbee. Anyway it's still at least 18 of them in SS known for now.--Sir Jump3R (talk) 14:55, October 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * There is not telling how many Sternritter there are. We are not going to speculate as to how many there are.--

I wrote "known for now" so there can be dozens of them, I get it. Nevertheless if I recall right there was 16 blue pillars in which Sternritters came to SS and I assume there were no more than 2 of them inside one pillar. It gives us max 32 Sternritters + Jucha Bach inside Seireitei... I think Gotei 13 can take them out, considering at least 7 of them already dead.--Sir Jump3R (talk) 15:51, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Medallion
One question: now that Juhabach has stolen Yamamoto's bankai, is the old man's theory on why some bankai can't be stolen incorrect? Juhabach's words after he stole the bankai also seem to imply the medallion was able to steal Yamamoto's bankai from the start. --1337 B33FC4K3 (talk) 00:36, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

It is most likely incorrect. Unability to steal bankai comes from power difference between medalion user and bankai user. Since Juha is the only one strong enough to steal Yama-ji bankai no one else from Stern Ritter army could have done it. Ichigo's case is simple. Neither Quilge nor Asguiaro had enough power to steal Tensa Zangetsu.--Sir Jump3R (talk) 11:27, October 4, 2012 (UTC)

Special Potential Power
Aizen is a special potential power. This classification is not something to offer or refuse. (It's kinda like your opinion about someone, they can't refuse what's you think of them nor do you offer what to think of them) The only thing Juhabach offered to Aizen was to join the Vandenreich. This misinterpretation might have come from mistranslation.--Zero62422002 (talk) 15:51, October 5, 2012 (UTC)

The issue has been brought up with our Translation Corner. Mohrpheus  (Talk)  16:09, October 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * I would hazard to guess that the five are the aforementioned and Byakuya, Renji and Rukia, as per chapter 517


 * Yea that would be a ridiculous guess. --

As and NaNaNa
Has it been confirmed that As and NaNaNa have been killed? I know they were struck down by Ryujin Jakka along with an, as of yet unnamed, Stern Ritter, but it would seem that that unnamed Stern Ritter survived. If I may direct the attention to the bottom left panel of this page:

http://www.tenmanga.com/chapter/Bleach511/299380-16.html

Is the battered guy with the mohawk standing on the downed Shinigami's face not the same mohawked Sternritter that Yamamoto struck down?

I don't remember seeing/reading anywhere that As and NaNaNa were confirmed dead, and if this unnamed guy survived Ryujin Jakka, isn't possible that As and NaNaNa survived. Again, I just don't remember seeing any confirmation of their death, and if someone can point it out to me then awesome, but if not then shouldn't their status be switched back to Unknown until it can be confirmed?

EDIT: I just saw on the Stern Ritter discussion page that this same topic was brought up and rejected because "No what you dont have is proof they are alive."

While I don't intend on making a habit of arguing with the moderators, I have to say this seems a little contradictory to the way things generally run on this Wiki. I've seen stated numerous times that things won't be added/edited into articles unless it's made - seemingly - crystal clear in the manga. Saying that a character should be listed as Deceased simply because we "can't prove they're alive" is no different than listing them as active because "we can't prove they're dead", or any other speculative material that is normally rightfully rejected.

Again, I'm not trying to argue with anyone, and if the Moderators truly wish them to remain listed as Deceased then so be it, but I just feel that we should wait until their death is confirmed. The fact that 1 of the 3 survived Ryujin Jakka does not mean all 3 did, I agree, but it does mean that it is possible all 3 did, and until we have proof one way or the other, shouldn't the status of Unknown be the most appropriate? Kuinra (talk) 03:26, October 23, 2012 (UTC)

HQ name
Could the Vandenreich HQ be the building Haschwald was referring to when he said that Juhabach couldn't stay outside the "Schatten Bereich" in chapter 514? Kamikaze839 (talk) 20:48, November 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * We have no idea what the Schatten Bereich is or the name of the Vandenreich Base. We don't make any assumptions here.--

Medallion
Shouldn't it be added that the Medallion can only steal Bankai and doesn't prevent the Shinigami from using his Shikai? Kamikaze839 (talk) 15:06, December 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't recall the manga saying it can only steal Bankai. That'd be speculation to add that.

In the article under Equipment, about the medallions used by the Vandenreich to steal Shinigami's Bankai, Yamamoto's opinion concerning the medallions' limitations is listed. That was however his first encounter with the medallion, so his words are nothing but pure speculation; perhaps in hope that Yhwach would respond and give away some of its secrets. The point I'm trying to make is that Yamamoto's speculations should not be listed as facts about the medallions, but rather included as part of the plot.Stefan (Shikai - &#34;Rust &#38; Shatter&#34;) (talk) 14:02, May 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * While there was a whole paragraph of speculation as to what way Yamamoto thought of how the medallions worked which has since been prioritized and removed. The fact that the most powerful and experienced Shinigami would question the power of a technique that he himself had only been witness and subject to previously and state that said power was inferior is not speculative especially when the intent of the attacker was to kill him with it. This is his first encounter with the medallion not his fight against Yhwach which did not involve a medallion until the real yhwach showed up and immediately stole the captain-commanders bankai. The conversation with the fake was speculative and inteneded to get information on why it wasnt being used against him at the time.--

Blue Flames
Why aren't the blue flames added to the Stern Ritter's pages? Can I add them? Or are we waiting for more to be revealed about them before adding them?--Yomiko-chan (talk) 21:29, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

Hm. The ability is currently listed in the reishi article. However, seeing as Pesche and the article both specifically attribute the fire to the Vandenreich, I don't see why it couldn't be added to this article. Mohrpheus  (Talk)  21:35, February 26, 2013 (UTC)

It is just reishi manipulation. I don't think it is worth mentioning everything a Quincy can do with reishi--
 * Yes, but as Mohrpheus-shi said, it was specifically attributed to the Vandenreich. And besides just because it's an ability that all Quincy are presumed to be capable of doesn't mean that it shouldn't be listed in the articles of the Quincy that have been shown using it. Just as we have Arrancars that have used Cero and Sonido mentioned, as opposed to just making a link to the Cero and Sonido pages. Plus the ones that have been seen using it have at least one application of it already shown, the pillars, which can be mentioned in their articles so that it's not just "they can make intense blue flames out of condensed Reishi".--Yomiko-chan (talk) 21:44, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * [Belated] Bump.--Yomiko-chan (talk) 18:22, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Yhwach's Epithet
The recent chapters have revealed Yhwach is the progenitor of the Quincy. Shouldn't his epithet be the "The Sealed King" since there is a legend about his return and how he regained his powers.--Wynia (talk) 20:31, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * The epithets are their official titles, like "The Question" or "The Yourself". If Yhwach does get one, chances are it will start with an A.

Aizen
Aizen is the 3rd War Potential. He turned down the offer to join the Vandenreich, not the fact of him being a War Potential. He can't refuse to be something that is something made by Ywhach to classify people. Big difference.--RexGodwin (talk) 06:17, July 4, 2013 (UTC)

Yhwach's offical rank
Shouldn't Yhwach's offical rank be written as "Monarch" rather than "Emperor"? That's what I think.--Shay.avigad.1 (talk) 12:05, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * Monarch and Emperor basically mean the same thing. There's really no point.

Uryu's Rank? Successor?
Should he be able to have the rank Successor? Although not an official military ranking, even in a fiction universe, it still gives some scope to his importance. Skitzo1 (talk) 19:08, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
 * His only official rank is Stern Ritter A. I think that's all we need for him. Serocco (talk) 06:46, July 27, 2013 (UTC)

Wandenreich
The official spelling of Vandenreich is Wandenreich, according to the scans of "The Dagger" (the Thousand-year Blood War arc review which is being released in WSJ while Bleach is on hiatus) which were released today.

They haven't been entirely translated into English, but "Wandenreich" was written in English on this page.

Andrew Crichton (talk) 12:33, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

Even better, here's the raw.

Andrew Crichton (talk) 12:43, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

Actually the sound [w] does not exist in German. German speakers pronounce their (English) V's as (English) W's when speaking English. In this instance even if it was written with a W it would be pronounced Vandenreich. Much of the confusion that arises when Germans pronounce words containing the letter "V" comes from the inconsistent pronounciation of "V" in German where it can be pronounced like "W" or like "F". The German "w" (and "v" when it's not pronounced like "f") is pronounced like the English "v". The English "w" does not exist in German. Besides what we hear on the anime there are plenty of names spoken incorrectly in this series by fans and users of this site alike seeing as we dont have some one to write down the phonetic breakdown on pronunciation. In any case this is an issue that should be presented to the Bleach Wiki:Translation Corner.--

Why hasn't the page been renamed yet? Mosley515 (talk) 17:08, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Had you read Sal's response, he said it needs to go to the Translation Corner before any changes are made.


 * There's nothing to be translated. It's already been romanized in The Dagger. Mosley515 (talk) 17:57, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

This is still an issue that needs deliberating as we know Tite Kubo is on a break and many of the names have been incorrectly romanized previously, ie Suì-Fēng. so no we will not be rushing into these things.

Lol. Somebody's mad. There's absolutely NOTHING to discuss. It's official printed Bleach material. It's the official spelling. Refusing to accept that will just invalidate this wiki's accuracy. When official material is released and it clashes with what you have, you change it to suit the official material. If you don't, then you're refusing to maintain accuracy. It's THAT simple. Mosley515 (talk) 18:24, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * No one's "mad." Your message was offensive. That's why it was removed.


 * You dont determine how the wiki maintains or verifies whats accurate and you dont determine whats to discuss. unless you edit here you dont know how we go about making sure the content is valid and done right. We need the page translated not takin at face value when we dont know what it says. If thats not enough an explanation to satisfy your need for instant gratification then i dont know what to tell you.--


 * "We don't know what it says." Why are you even editing on a Wiki if you cannot comprehend the letters of the alphabet?  There's a difference between "V" and "W", okay?  V is like a single V, whereas "W" is like two V's put together.  So, you see, when a word, or name is written with a "W" in it, it's not written with a "V".  As such, spelling it with a V is incorrect, whereas spelling with a W is correct.  Are you grasping the basic fundamentals here?  Keep up with me bro, keep up with me.  It's not that complex. I know you can do it, I believe in you!Mosley515 (talk) 18:45, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Your problem here is you have not been listening. German is a VERY different language than English, and until someone can CONFIRM that there should be a W over a V after being translated to ENGLISH, nothing will be changed.


 * Rofl, and you're not using your head. It doesn't matter how different the language is - it's one thing to question how you pronounce it, it's another on how you SPELL IT.  The spelling is there, in front of your face, in huge big black letters taking up half the page.  How well acquitanted Kubo is with German is irrelevant, because that is how it is spelled in the story.  You don't seem to be getting that fact - IT IS THE OFFICIAL SPELLING.  There's absolutely, utterly nothing to discuss. Mosley515 (talk) 18:54, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * I speak German as the third language and the "Wandenreich" spelling does indeed look more German than "Vandenreich" IMHO. My decent yet imperfect knowledge of German aside - I've become used to this wiki's rules against speculation because they are sensible most of the time (not always, though). However, this particular case is quite... baffling? There's nothing to confirm or translate, you can all clearly see the spelling for yourselves, so what the heck?  SarisKhan  -- Do you hear the voices too? 23:03, July 26, 2013 (UTC)