Talk:Zanpakutō

Kenpachi Zaraki
In Forms>Shikai, it is stated that Zaraki is incapable of Shikai, however in Types it is stated that his sword is in a constant Shikai state. Which is correct? Vaizard 05:24, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * From the information in both the anime his Zanpakutō is a constant release and he does not know the name of it what it has been stated is that he is incapable of Bankai WhiteStrike 21:13, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

"Achievement of the shikai is a mark of control of a zanpakutō, and it appears to be a requirement for advancement within the Shinigami ranks, as most (with the notable exception of Kenpachi Zaraki) seated officers and presumably all lieutenants are capable of shikai." It says Zaraki is incapable of Shikai. Vaizard 05:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * After reading the paragraph I re-wrote some of the info on Zaraki and his Shikai as to make it more understandable WhiteStrike 18:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I belive that zaraki is much like ichigo, their zanpaktous are in a constant shikai state. But unlike ichigo, zaraki is unable to communicate with his zanpakou, because of their ideal differences. --Cyberflame 12:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

This was already confirmed when i did the references for Kenpachi in at least two chapters. Salubri 16:17, 21 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Arrancar and Shinigami
Perhaps an idea would be to create a seperate section for arrancar and shinigami. On the page we get tonnes of info about Shinigami Zanpakutō, yet only a ressurection section for Arrancar. Just need to know if this is a good idea. Chrono D. 07:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem is that there doesn't seem to be much to add that isn't already in the Resurreccion section. There aren't a lot of sub-divisons of Arrancar release states because they are all basically just variations of the same thing--the Arrancar's original Hollow powers. Any details about individual Zanpakutou are explained in the respective characters' pages.


 * But feel free to prove me wrong; it's not a bad idea at all. LapisScarab 18:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Zanjutsu
Zanjutsu does not exactly mean "swordsmanship," though it is correct in a way. Kenjutsu (literally meaning blade technique) is a more correct term for that. It's a bit difficult for me to describe zanjutsu in a word or two, but think of it like the connection the shinigami/soul reaper (however you want to call them) to the spiritual entity within their zanpakutou and their combined ability to fight together.

Recall the moment early on in Bleach when Ichigo and Zangetsu combined their might against Kenpachi, right before the end of the duel. That is the most visual display of what I'm talking about. --Lavi (talk) 22:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I already put Expert and Master Swordsmanship Specialist under Zanjutsu--- and I'm going to edit them right now.--Renji Abarai 08:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Zanjutsu literally means "cutting technique" Cepheids 05:50, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Dual Bladed
I don't think Shuhei's belongs in this category. Shouldn't only Shikai's with two handheld blades go here? Maggosh 17:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

He has a dual blade kusarigama. As you should know Zanpakuto is not limited to be just simple swords. Last checked there was two of them, they have separate handles. Salubri 17:13, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh. Sorry, didn't see it; the right side was cut off. Maggosh 17:14, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, then we may also have to put down Ikkaku' Bankai here. User:Elementite 6:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ikkaku doesn't have two separate blades in shikai so it doesn't count for him. Salubri 17:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I do agree with salubri, but yamamoto did say that ukitake and kyoraku have the only dualtype zanpaktous in whole of soul society --Cyberflame 12:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

That was also well before any other arc. later additions wouldnt be considered as well why would he even consider to speak on a lieutenants zanpakuto, seriously doubt it would matter to him. Not to mention its evident that hisagi doesn't normally release his. Considering how early it was when Yamamoto said it id take it with a grain of salt, mainly because alot happened in the arc that previously wasnt done before.Salubri 16:21, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I know this has been resolved but I just wanted to add that technically what Yamamoto said still holds true. Kyoraku and Ukitake are the only ones with duel swords. Hisagi has a Kusarigama-like weapon. While he does wield dual Kusarigama, each of which in turn has a double blade, they aren't swords. It's a very different and unique weapon. So, even if Yamamoto had remembered Hisagi's shikai (I think Yamamoto is probably the only person who knows the shikai and the bankai of all captains and vice-captains), it didn't really have any bearing on his comment because he was talking about twin swords. Not twin weapons in general. Tinni 02:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I know that I came in a little late for this but I agree with Tinni, it may be a different subbing group or not but what I saw was sword even though Hisagi has two weapons in shikai they are not swords.--SalmanH 19:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Resolved

Individual Zanpakutō Articles...
Should we create them? I'm conflicted on the idea, and because of the recent Zanpakutō popularity poll, I want to know someone else's opinion on the matter. Some Zanpakutō like Zabimaru, Zangetsu and Hyōrinmaru could deserve separate articles since their spirits have been seen, while those like Senbonzakura (& maybe Ashisogi Jizō) have multiple abilities that require more space. The Zanpakutō are technically spirits after all, and Bleach is chock full of those. Getsuga Tenshō(note the internal link) is the only technique from a Zanpakutō that has it's own article, so why not at least Zangetsu?(it could be like the Hollow Ichigo Article)--Renji Abarai 08:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

We kinda been down that road. Someone did that to the entire powers section on ichigo's profile. Not only was that wrong but it just made no sense. No matter how popular or important ichigo is, he doesn't get his own powers section. It also made it more messy. Im not really sure why the Getsuga Tensho has its own page, it seems more like a totally unnecessary reason to do what i was just saying. But either way it seems to be there because of the hollow ichigo article. There would really just be no room for it. For example how often do we see Toshiro use his zanpakuto in comparison to Ichigo, all you can say about the zanpakuto on Ichigo's page is a lot of basic fact, if it had its own page it would become a page mixed with speculation, the area on his page is kinda long winded as it is because what we know of it is prominent compared to others. Besides there is no full info on a zanpakuto's but ichigo's and u never know when you'll get more. So far you've listed 4 people outta how many people. What about their zanpakuto requires more space really, that cant be placed on the page. My point is what's the point of doing something like that, it kinda leads to making a page for every piece of information you put down. Then you get totally irrelivatyant pages and only 4 people get actual pages for theirs and no one else's cause there isn't available information on theirs to warrant them having their own page. The better question is what more information needs to be under the category that cant be put there that should justify it having its own page. I say no it shouldn't be a separate page. There's a page for zanpakuto already just like there's a page for cero. Every variation of cero gets listed under it maybe with its own page link depending on its importance but in most cases its something possessed by multiple users. While every shinigami has a zanpakuto they each have a different one unique to them. You cant really do something to showcase a handful over the majority especially when there would be so many important characters left out cause of lack of information.Salubri 10:10, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm with Salubri. Making separate articles for a Zanpakuto, doesn't matter if it's Zangetsu or Oomaeda's Gegetsuburi is just senseless and unnesessary. I think we must keep zanpakuto's info as an adressed section in it's respective wielder page, because those pages shouldn,t be shortened. In the past, some users done separate pages for zanpakuto's and we just redirected all of them 'cause those pages just display redundant info (the copy and paste technic to be exact). I don't see any point in doing a separate article for zanpakutos. Also i don't see any point in doing separate articles for EVERY single section of the best articles we already have (specially in Ichigo's one, with the exeption of Ichigo's relationships one). Yeah, we would have a lot of pages, but the majority of them would be short pages or even Stubs. So my answer is No, we shouldn't create separate pages for zanpakuto's, but i think we could create Zangetsu's spirit (aka Old man Zangetsu) own page, because he's actually a separate character, but the powers and abilities of Ichigo's zanpakuto should stay in Ichigo's page. Just my opinion. Maul day 11:55, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Maul day and Salubri. we tried it before and it wasn't a good idea. Having the Zanpakuto included in its own article makes it better for the reader since they don't have to be going back and forth between pages to find the info the want, kepping it together just makes more sense. To little info is know on each individual Zanpakuto so not enough info for even it's own article and like you mention am not really sure why there's an article on Getsuga Tensho but i think is something that we let go for so long is a little hard to just delete that article by now. I might agree to giving old man Zangetsu his own page since he has he's own identidy which is the reason Hollow Ichigo has an article but there are no other Zanpakuto that have shown any info on their spirit we seen Zabimaru but what do we really know about him other than how he looks? for now we keep the Zanpakuto with their respective owners in that page no need to create senseless articles. WhiteStrike 13:48, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I figured I was not the first to suggest it. I mean, I want us to reach 500 articles, but I do not want to create irrelevant articles that can be easily merged with character pages. The only reason it crossed my mind was the Getsuga Tensho Article, and I thought why not have a Zangetsu page?--then it expanded to all Zanpakutō w/ the recent fan poll. Thanks plenty for the advice. Renji Abarai 19:38, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Where?
I've been wondering for a while now, where exactly do souls get their zanpakuto from?Rhysno1 21:46, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Zanpakuto are generated by the souls of their respective shinigami. So the zanpakuto is a piece of the soul and therefore apart of the shinigami, but at the same time they have their own sentient spirit. Salubri 21:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

yes but where do they come from, it cant just be there one day?Rhysno1 21:46, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * If a spirit in soul society has enough spiritual energy to become a shinigami from that energy the zanpakuto is generated. Its like the difference between a regular citizen of soul society who doesnt possess one but shinigami do. It just is generated at that point. Salubri 21:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

that doesn't make any sense, toshiro hitsugaya didn't have a zanpakuto when he entered soul society even the it was beyond normal shinigami?Rhysno1 15:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Im not sure what you wanna know. Hitsuguya didnt have a zanapakuto at the time, there is no indication when he generated it, all that is known is at some point the dragon appeared to him and from that point on he had one. The basic idea is look at ichigo becoming a shinigami thats probably the best example you'll find of a zanpakuto being generated. Salubri 15:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

How is this resolved? When ichigo has his soul reaper powers activated his zanpakto is already there. there was no materialization or anything. it came with the powers meaning it was already there. I doubt everyone attained their zanpakto in the same way, even generally. --G3N3T1C 14:30, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Shunsui's Command-less Shikai
In the latest chapter it appears that Shunsui releases his zanpakuto without speaking its rather drawn out release command - should this be added to the section that mentions Renji doing the same? Mohrpheus 03:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

What ill say is no its not necessary. Its not impossible for one who is in touch with their zanpakuto and skilled in its use to be capable of the bringing it out without saying anything. Salubri 06:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Actually, I would like to bring something up there. In the trivia section of the Kira Izuru's page, as well as those of Hinamori, someone mentioned that only people who have attained bankai can release their shikai without using the release command. Where did this come from? I understand that to release you zanpakuto without saying the release phrase means you are highly tuned with your zanpakuto but I don't remember reading anywhere ONLY those who have bankai can release their shikai without using the release command. Just curious to know the source. Tinni 03:05, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Byakuya in his fight versus Renji is surprised that he stooped his shikai with his own without using a command phrase, denoting that one cannot do such unless they have achieved bankai. Its further elaborated on in the anime.Salubri 03:39, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Where did this come from
When did the following statement come from: ''Though rare, it is not uncommon for more than one soul to be attuned to the same spirit. In such cases ancient law of the Soul Society will not allow two beings to wield the same zanpakutō, in which case they must duel for ownership of the spirit, with the winner gaining it and the loser being sentenced to death.'' I do not remember reading it, and it seems to contradict other statements about zanpakutos. Should it be removed? --Reflections 04:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * While the wording in the first part of that sentence contradicts itself (it should be "Though rare, it is not impossible..."), it comes from the DiamondDust Rebellion movie. Toshiro Hitsugaya and Sojiro Kusaka both came in contact with Hyorinmaru, and Central 46 forced them to fight for ownership of the spirit. Arrancar109 04:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Bad example

 * "This is not the case for all bankai however as some bankais, like that of Kaname Tousen, are completely unrelated to their shikais."

Tosen's bankai actually is related to his shikai: his primary shikai ability involves him overwhelming the senses to knock out the victim. His bankai nullifies all of the victim's senses, which is essentially an upgrade from his shikai. If this statement is to hold any water, there needs to be a better example. I can't think of any. --れび (talk to Lavi!) 20:19, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I don't see the big connection between an ability that overloads the opponent's hearing/shoots out many blades and an ability that deprives of their senses completely while depriving the sword of its other abilities. However, a better example would be that Soifon's shikai, ideal for assassinations, doesn't relate to her bankai, which is of course, a giant missile launcher that could hardly be used stealthily. But, it would probably be better to remove that statement all together. Mohrpheus 20:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Tosen's zanpakuto is based around the manipulation of the senses, though the raining swords is an odd inclusion to its list of abilities (perhaps it hints Tosen's sense of justice is ironically blinding him? *speculation*). Anyways, the statement should be reworded rather than omitted, since its an obvious observation worded rather poorly and/or confusingly. Perhaps removing this one, then adjusting some other sentence to say that shikai and bankai tend to relate to each other in terms of abilities. That way, there is room to say that shikai and bankai do not absolutely have to be related, but the most common trend is that they are. --れび (talk to Lavi!) 22:08, 21 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Zanpakutō's physical manifestations
Is it too soon to be adding pictures of the new physical forms of the Zanpakutō spirits from episode 230? Ultimt evil 16:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

It's already been done, but we don't put them in the character/"owners'" articles, since this is the debut for most of the zanpakuto, and some of their forms (namely Hyorinmaru and Zabimaru) contradict their earlier appearances. Each spirit has their own article now (minus Zangetsu, who has not shown signs that he has rebelled yet), but it they're title like this: Tenken (spirit), not Tenken. If the "spirit" part isn't in your search, they'll redirect to the characters who wield the zanpakuto, not their zanpakuto spirits. Arrancar109 16:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I can see that now, but when I posted this I didnt see any links to the (spirit) pages on the character pages. I also searched Muramasa and it came up with nothing. Regardless, they're there now so it doesn't really matter either way. The new forms may just be from whatever Muramasa's powers consist of and whatever process he goes through to extract the spirits, but that is all speculation and has no solid evidence backing it up. Not trying to claim it as fact. Just a vague guess on my behalf. Ultimt evil 10:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Zanpaktou change
In the main Zanpakuto article, it is specifically stated that a Zanpakuto, being part of the owners soul, is virtually effortless to wield for it's Shingami. So why do the Zanpakuto articles about particularly large Zanpakuto does it compliment the wielder for being able to use the "heavy" weapon efficiently? The same with accrediting Renji's swordsmanship skills to his unusual shikai. As these weapons are part of their souls, then shouldn't this come naturally?--Ulquiorra Wannabe128 18:00, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Well the best idea is when they talk about wielding these weapons its meant to address the skill of the wielder not take anything away from the fact that its obviously not heavy for him. Its like an outside perspective for anyone else that must be heavy but considering no one can use another zanpakuto i would guess that it doesn't make sense to put that down. As far as renji's there is nothing to would suggest that a shinigami automatically has skill in fighting with his zanpakuto, training in sword fighting is the same as training with the use of the zanpakutos abilities, it takes time and practice. He wasn't automatically good if the new arc shows anything its that as much as they know of each other shinigami and zanpakuto spirit. They are separate beings that have their own mind and way of doing things, its only through mutual cooperation that something can happen. Kenpachi doesnt know what his sword is truely capable of and for a time ichigo didnt know the power that can come from knowing and communication with the zanpakuto.Salubri 18:23, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Not Yet Achieved to Status Unknown?
For Bankai, the status of the Vizards are 'Not Yet Achieved'. Should this be changed to 'Status Unknown'? For all we know, they could have achieved it over the some 100 years.

We've discussed this before. If it's not explicitly clear that they've learnt it (either we've seen it or we've been told they've got it), then we say they don't have it. All such judgements are of course subject to change when we find out more. TomServo101 15:03, September 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Kyoraku's zanpakuto
Well it's not wind based so I took it out and put it in unknown. Question is can we call it Kido-based or do we make a new category that says it's "game-base"? I am inclined to think kido-based is covers it. Tinni 13:45, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I agree, Kyorakus Zanpakuto appears to be Kido based. I mean, what else could it be? --JezzaRules2 14:02, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, I wasn't sure before, but having read the spinning top analogy to his tornado move (think it's Takaoni), it makes a lot more sense to me now. So yes, categorising it as kido based would, imo, be the best action for now. Hopefully we'll get more info next week, but hey, talk about original! TomServo101 14:25, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I'll move it to Kido for now. If anyone has anything else to add, please use this section. Thank you. Tinni 15:29, September 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

unknown till otherwise or melee till otherwise
I am talking of course about the zanpakutos of Lisa, Hiyori, Isane and Chōjirō. They are all listed under unknown as we have so far only seen them be released and never seen them in action. My question is, do we leave them in unknown or move them to melee until we are told otherwise? Tinni 13:17, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I'd class them as melee for now. At the moment we have nothing to even suggest that they have abilities, so on that basis, I say melee until otherwise proven. (PS sorry, I changed the page before you finished writing this). --Yyp 13:22, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Well in that case, for the sake of consistency we should probably move Isane and Chōjirō, too. I mean, we don't know if they have any abilities either. I am in favour of melee until otherwise too, but I also think we need to be consistent. Tinni 13:25, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I hadn't noticed them in it. --Yyp 13:34, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, since their abilities weren't shown, I think we should keep them under the "Unknown" class. I mean yeah, it looks like they are Melee-type zanpakuto's I'll admit, but then again, so does Yumichika's. We should probably wait until we see what kind of special attacks they're capable of. Arrancar109 13:29, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I am happy either way. But again for the sake of consistency we should probably move Iba down to unknown as well. I mean, most likely he is a melee type given he is ex-squad 11 but we don't even know his release phase or his zanpakuto name. We just saw it released a few times. Tinni 13:42, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Zanpakuto names in bold or not
I'm a bit bothered about why some of them are in bold and some are not. I think they should all be either bold or normal, not a mix of both. I' votes for bold, as it makes them stand out better in the list, easier to read. --Yyp 13:33, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have been wondering about that too. I also don't like the bold text. Tinni 13:42, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Hinamori's zanpakuto
I could have sworn Hinamori had a fire-type zanpakuto. In fact I went and checked episode 224 and the corresponding chapter 334 and in both she seemed to be lobbing balls of fire. In fact, isn't Tabiume lobbing balls of fire in the new zanpakuto filler arc? Tinni 02:16, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * That's a good question. Like Salubri once suspected, an element-type zanpakuto may be a sub-type to Kido-type zanpakutos. But we never received any real confirmation on (the example is Maki Ichinose), so we never had that truly resolved. Either way though, I'd say Hinamori's is a Kido-type, given how she uses it in the Fake Karakura arc. I would also make the argument about the color of the fireballs, but last I checked, that changed when Hinamori returned to battle in the anime. Arrancar109 02:22, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * I know what you mean. Her "ball" was pink originally but by now it's pretty orange and looks like a ball of fire. Also what seems to have happened in Fake Karakura town is that she sent fire through the kido net she wove and the Arrancar got caught in. It looked like a fire based explosion. I know this isn't much of a source but in my Bleach Dark Souls game she also manipulates balls of fire (then again Kyoraku has wind based attacks in the game...). Anybody know what was said about her abilities in Bleach book of SOULs? Because I believe that book has a lot of extra information on the shinigami and their abilities but I have never gotten my hands on a fully translated version and I don't read Japanese. Tinni 02:32, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Seriously guys, I know Hinamori's ball was pink back in Soul Society but it does appear to be a fire-type based on recent chapters and she did cause an explosion. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/333/18/ http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/333/19/, in fact chapter 333 was called Ash (Matsumoto) and Salamander (Hinamori). Again, she sends fire down the web http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/334/19/. Indeed, even back in SS arc she was causing explosions http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/101/11/, http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/101/12/. It's a fire based zanpakuto! There really isn't two ways about it. Tinni 15:36, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

This has already been determined to be a kido-type, whether it looks like fire is not the point, its never stated as such and many kido spells can look like something different. (shot of red fire is used alot and it looks like a red orb and then when fired it looks more like a fireball of type) spiritual energy in form of fire balls but it is derived from kido rather then the elemental fire we see from Yama, Amagai or even the stated fire ability of Love's zanpakuto.Salubri 16:19, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Well I maintain it's a fire-type but I won't change the article or anything. But I personally think that's a pretty flimsy line in the sand you are drawing. It's manifests balls of fire thus it's a fire type. That's the logical straight line to draw. I mean, calling it a fire-type doesn't stop it from being a kido-type. It's a kido-type that manipulates fire. But I'll drop it. Tinni 16:38, October 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Yumichika plant-type
Am I the only one that thinks Yumichika Ayasegawa zanpakuto should be in the plant-type? I mean come on! He even hold up a flower that is the result of his zanpakuto's true power! http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/322/03/ http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/322/04/. It's clearly a plant type. Tinni 15:36, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

No he clearly states its a Kido-type.Salubri 16:19, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

But aren't "plant types" also Kido types? Look the definition of plant types as listed in the article is "Designed for the manipulation of plant growth for offense or defense", he grows a plant by sucking up his opponents reiatsu... I mean seriously, if Yumichka isn't a plant-type then we should get rid of the plant-type category because it's totally meaningless. Tinni 16:36, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing definite to state that kido types are anything other then what they are kido type. Fire has its on category and so does plant neither the two mix unless stated in the manga which its not only once has the connection between kido and light been used to state maki's zanpakuto (thats a connection between kido and elemental zanpakuto only) in the bount arc and that not only anime but its filler and never mentioned again and ties back to nothing we have seen or read. so we leave kido types under their own category unless indicated otherwise. That is why Kenryu is under plant, which it clearly depicts him using flowers and petals though your right he could best be put under kido as well and Enryu is defense (while originally it was thought to be earth, it was stated to be defense in the soccer episode).Salubri 17:00, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah well, I still think that if we are going to have a plant category then Yumichka should fall in it because it's clearly plant based. But you are correct in that he does call it kido type and the plant type thing is something we made up. So I'll drop it. But I must say that the "type" classification is fairly useless at this point if we aren't going to classify zanpakutos that fit the description to a 't' within said description or perhaps what should be done is that we should separate manga zanpakutos from "other media" zanpakutos... meh, I like the zanpakuto list page more then this page anyway. Tinni 17:10, October 21, 2009 (UTC)