Talk:Sternritter/Archive 2

Leader
who keeps changeing Jugram to a leader he is not a leader he is letter B and uryu ishida should be the leader or maybe just Juha Bach should be the leader what do you think but do not say Jugram is one of the leaders cause he's not either just Juha Bach is the leader or Uryu Ishida and Juha Bach is the leader not Jugram

On this page, Jugram clearly states that he has been made the Sterritter's Grand Master, in other words their leader. Furthermore, beyond being the successor, Uryū does not have any known role in the Wandenreich. Therefore, the information that Jugram is the leader will stand.

"Empowerment" abilities
I think that Mask de Masculine and Driscoll Berci's "Empowerment" abilities should be changed to "Self-empowerment" to avoid ambiguity. After all, they're raising their own power, not someone else's. This would look like "Cheering Induced Self-empowerment" for Mask and "Killing Induced Self-Empowerment" for Berci.

--Saigosaikyou (talk) 21:52, February 20, 2014 (UTC)

Power Up
We need to add a section explaining how each Sternritter got their powers from Yhwach, and what happens when they die.

Imagination Sternritter
is someone going to add the imagination sternritter or not yet since we don't know his name or his letter designation --Prince of zahard (talk) 22:05, March 12, 2014 (UTC)
 * Added. Seems the best idea for a name right now is "Guremi", which might change when we get the raw and cnet's translation, but for now, yeah.

Guremi and Gunael
I think we should review whether Gunael was intended to be real. The are a few discrepancies between him and other 'ritters: 1. His power does not include a 'the' before it. 2. His power contains more than one word, one of which is 'point' which doesn't start with 'V' 3. In the previous chapter, he was said to be a product of Guremi's imagination. He then exploded, which is not something Guremi has been shown to do against opponents,suggesting Gunael was actually a figment of his imagination. 4. He was never introduced as 'Sternritter V'. He just was said to have the power of 'V - the Vanishing Point' 5. Guremi is officially 'Sternritter V 'The Visionary' Guremi Thomeaux'. There are only one pair of 'ritters who share a letter, and they bear the same epithet, and are twins, which gives them a strong link.

I don't think Gunael was real. What do you guys think? This isn't speculation. I have listed reasons. Of course, people might disagree, and want to wait for further clarification, but I thought it is now pretty clear given dialogue in the chapter, and the naming scheme of Sternritter abilities. I doubt we will see more explanation on Guremi's character given the current pacing of the storyline. It seemed like he was just like James, a part of another ritters power. Chiligrinder (talk) 10:32, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

Have to agree with you here. Guenael was pretty much the same as James, a product from a sternritter power. He shouldn't be listed as a sternritter in this article. Martios (talk) 19:23, March 19, 2014 (UTC)

BG9 Dead or Alive
I don't think BG9 is dead yet. They didn't show his death and we haven't learned what his Epithet yet. Primarch11

==I agree. We were never shown BG9's death, so I think that we're just assuming he's deadSilverRain (talk) 17:08, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

BG9 is dead. He was executed by Jugram Haschwalth at Yhwach's command, together with Cang-Du.  SarisKhan  -- Do you hear the voices too? 18:35, September 15, 2014 (UTC)

Differently from Cang-Du we don't see BG9 dead or even armed, so I think that define BG9 "deceased" it's a speculation. Bogota X (talk) 17:10, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

He was about to be executed. Assuming he's still alive is illogical.  SarisKhan  -- Do you hear the voices too? 21:22, September 18, 2014 (UTC)

But it's "logical" to consider Pepe alive despite knowing that he get eaten/killed by Liltotto? -.-" Bogota X (talk) 13:45, September 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * Lets put this into perspective the burden of proof is on you to prove him alive if you feel thats the case. Using the point that we havnt seen it or we dont know his epithet is not an excuse. By that definition anything that happens off panel didnt happen. So the logical assumption to make is that NaNaNa, Candice & the old man just laid down cause they were tired while fighting byakuya. That Kensei just decided to stop fighting wonderweiss during the battle in fake karakura town cause he left the iron on or something. We go with the evidence presented from what we know. We know both he and Cang Du were not even eventually gonna be executed for failure but that they where in the middle of being executed for failure. Secondly bach benefits from him being dead as it equals more power for him, thus the point of killing him in the first place otherwise might as well send him back out to fight. The basic point is the evidence points to his demise. Now unless someone has something that swings it in the other direction its speculative to consider him alive.--
 * Not only this is a speculation, but also the burden of proof is on those who try to demonstrate his death without any evidence of it (that's the point), and not the other way around. Moreover you forget that they were going to be "judged" and not necessarily "executed" (as it was later for Cang Du) -.- Bogota X (talk) 14:51, September 25, 2014 (UTC)


 * I wasnt clear, the burden of proof on this site (not court) is for you to prove your point, which you havent. If your argument isnt able to convince then you have no argument to make. By your own logic we cant infer that he is alive either as you have presented no evidence. So that seems to be an impasse. Though to be fair until otherwise given more information a compromise of his status will be "Unknown".--
 * That's exactly why I said before that define BG9 "deceased" it's a speculation. So I agree that is more correct to define his status as "unknown" until further updates. Bogota X (talk) 17:32, September 25, 2014 (UTC)

Icons
Shouldn't we add the four Elite Sternritter in the section "Organization"? They have been called so by Juha Bach and have a different attire than the others: a giant black six-pointed star on their clothing. I would say we can consider them a "group within the Sternritter group" and actually the only organizational structure we have been given.

We already said that Jugram Haschwaldt is the grandmaster, shouldn't we point out Ishida's role too? As he is always at Ywach's side, he seems to stand on nearly the same level as Haschwaldt.# --Rafer.Alston (talk) 07:58, October 6, 2014 (UTC)

Just wondering shouldn't it be said that the Stern Ritter who fought the entire Gotei 13 are said to be of lower rank compared to the elite stern ritters? As well as according to the Wandenreich Leader, that his Elite Stern Ritter are capable of fighting evenly against the Royal Guard? As the Wandenreich leader stated so himself?--JustaNobody (talk) 21:53, November 22, 2014 (UTC)


 * Well if you recall right after saying that each one got totally killed by Oetsu alone with marginal effort on his part. Having that point made its clear that yhwach statement was a grandiose boast at best, seeing it wasnt until after empowering them that they were a threat. Also there isnt much to define why or how the "elite" are given that distinction. For all purposes if whats to be believed via the content they are elite primarily cause he chose them to the task of guarding him. By all accounts they are numbered on the same criteria as the others so beyond the special privilege there doesnt seem to be much making them stand out from other sternritter.--

Lille Barro's Gender
Hey can someone change Lille's gender to male? Don't know why it's a question mark...SilverRain (talk) 16:05, October 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * Fixsed, thanks for pointing it out.--Xilinoc (talk) 11:02, October 10, 2014 (UTC)

Updated with new information
Someone should change the epithet from "A" to "A - "The Almighty"" and the name from Ishida to Yhwach because of the chapter 609 --Kwztas (talk) 21:07, December 12, 2014 (UTC)Kwztas


 * We don't know if Uryū's "A" is also The Almighty. Also, Yhwach isn't a Sternritter, he's the Emperor, so he's listed on the Wandenreich page, where his epithet has been added.--Xilinoc (talk) 22:56, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

Some sternritters can share the same letter designation but (slightly) different powers. Take Royd Lloyd and Loyd Lloyd for example. They're both Sternritter Y-The Yourself, with the powers if appearance and power mimicry. The only minor difference is that Royd can also copy someone's memories as well. Guanel Lee and Gremmy Thoumeaux don't count since, Gremmy created Guanel, thus revealing that Gremmy was the true Sternritter V. This is something I similarly stated in another talk page. Poweltav (talk) 21:32, May 2, 2015 (UTC)

Sternritter Colors
I realize this is a can of worms well over a year old, but hear me out. You may recall the two-page color spread Kubo did of all the major combatants in the war at the end of the 6-week hiatus last year, and when that came out, we decided that we couldn't declare the colors of the Sternritter depicted as canon because of some of the Shinigami having blue hair instead of black, etc. However, 581 had a color page of Candice, Giselle, Meninas, and Liltotto where their hair and skin colors match up with the ones presented on the opening two-page spread from 547. I know we can get a bit contentious over color sometimes, but in this case, is it safe to assume that the colors of the other Sternritter on that page are also canon, and can thus be put in their appearance section and such?--Xilinoc (talk) 17:11, December 20, 2014 (UTC)

Epithet/Schrift Sections
There's something I've been mulling over for a while now in regards to the Sternritter epithets: shouldn't they each get their own subsection in their Sternritter's Powers & Abilities section? They seem to fit the criteria for such a section; they're unique, named abilities that nonetheless fall under a broad categorization (powers granted by Yhwach), and in addition, they're referenced at the very top of the page, so someone trying to learn what they do would find it easier to skip directly to a section about them instead of searching through the Powers & Abilities section, which can take some time. This just seems like an easier way of placing them on the page. Thoughts?--Xilinoc (talk) 11:17, January 20, 2015 (UTC)


 * Judging by Sal's recent spree, it looks like he compromised with moving the Schrift sections to the top of the P & A sections, which I'm fine with, so I guess this is closed. Hooray for executive action.--Xilinoc (talk) 23:42, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Purpose
Shouldn't we reconsider the purpose of the Sternritter? "Purging the Shinigami" is a quote of an unknown Sternritter (possibly Haschwaldt) at the beginning of the arc. Considering various quotes by Haschwaldt and Robert Accutrone's speech, isn't their purpose something like "Fight for his majesty and die after that in order to restore/boost his powers?" --Rafer.Alston (talk) 23:39, January 24, 2015 (UTC)


 * I think there is a misunderstanding. Based on what your providing for said change i would say no. The first two points are general facts of how he is usin g his powers and not specifically addressing the purpose of the sternritter as a organization. Roberts speech wasnt a explanation of purpose of their mission. Its essentially stating that the sternritter were created to serve at yhwach's pleasure to use as he sees fit and therefore if he deems them useless they are subject to ashwaulin. There is nothing there that addresses whats the point of the sternritter in regards to this arc. The fact that they are entirely created and made to serve is not a purpose in itself. Also dying to restore him doesnt appear to be a common fact even known to most sternritter given their reaction and roberts need to explain that point to them.--

Giselle's Gender
Shouldn't we change Giselle's gender to "?" or Male? The manga hasn't explicitly confirmed that the remarks about Giselle being a guy are just jokes.

And on the topic should Candice's status be changed to dead? Since Lilloto stated that "the enemy got to candy" and in the same page talked about Meninas but claimed that Meninas was alive but didn't state that Candice was alive.

TridentPuff (talk) 15:54, May 25, 2015 (UTC)TridentPuff


 * What if, Giselle is a transgender? She looks and acts like a girl, even saying that killing Bambietta made her "wet". But Yumichika, being highly perceptive, heavily implies that Giselle is a man, when he said "you reak of semen". Although this statement made her angry for some reason. Also Candice isn't really dead, just incapacitated. Remember, Robert Accutrone and NaNaNa Najahkoop survived Byakuya's assault, but with grevious injuries, so Candice survived too. Poweltav (talk) 16:32, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

Uryū a Schutzstaffel
Shouldn't Uryū be listed as a Schutzstaffel? Chapter 630, pages 6-7. Jugram and a soldat speaking of "all the members of Schutzstaffel have already split into five different directions...". Yatanogarasu (talk) 08:30, July 3, 2015 (UTC)


 * Yep, it's been fixed. Thanks for the notice.--Xilinoc (talk) 15:58, July 3, 2015 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. Yatanogarasu (talk) 02:56, July 4, 2015 (UTC)

Uryu's power as a Sternritter
Shouldn't Uryu's reiryoku power level be changed from High Spiritual Power to Great/Immense spiritual power. I mean he IS a member of the Sternritter and part the Schutzstaffel. All members of the Sternritter are at the level comparable to or greater than that of a captain level Shinigami after all. I tried to add that last year, but it was removed, and the person who undid the edit said "that's not how it works". Let's assess the already known facts: Yhwach said Uryu could surpass him, all Quincies who drink from Yhwach's blood unlock their true powers, and Uryu being appointed as his future successor/heir, it would make sense Uryu already has more power than we all think. Am I wrong? Poweltav (talk) 05:00, July 4, 2015 (UTC)

Sternritter Reiatsu - The Last Stand
This has been bothering me for quite some time, and I know its been talked to death before, but I truly believe that Akon's statement about their Reiatsu wasn't limited to those shown in the first invasion, and here's why:

https://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/35169

http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/499/5

http://mangasee.co/manga/?series=Bleach&chapter=499&index=1&page=6

All three of these sources, one of which we use often, says "At least 16" (MS goofed and said "6", admittedly). There were "at least" 17 Sternritter shown in the first invasion:

1 Jugram Haschwalth 2 Askin Nakk Le Vaar 3 Bambietta Basterbine 4 Äs Nödt 5 Bazz-B 6 Cang Du 7 BG9 8 PePe Waccabrada 9 Robert Accutrone 10 Driscoll Berci 11 Berenice Gabrielli 12 Jerome Guizbatt 13 Mask De Masculine 14 NaNaNa Najahkoop 15 Loyd Lloyd 16 Royd Lloyd 17 Shaz Domino

Now, let's consider the Sternritter that beat Rukia, the Sternritters that fought Yumichika and Ikkaku, the Sternritter that fought Shinji and Momo, and the Sternritter that seemingly Mayuri fought. And lets not forget all the Shinigami dying when Ichigo was trapped in the cage, BEFORE the Soldat were summoned. That's at least 5 more Sternritter unseen (4, because I'm not sure Mayuri was fighting, or even 3 if we assume Yumichika and Ikkaku fought together), yet were apart of the First Invasion.

What I'm saying is, we have reason to believe that more Sternritter than were shown took part in the First Invasion, and therefore would qualify for the Captain Level+ Reiatsu. Akon said "At Least 16", and also said that more information was coming in as he was speaking to Ichigo (about the casualties), meaning that there were more that he didn't know about at the time. Furthermore, the Schutzstaffel should at the very least get that Reiatsu level, as they beat the Royal Guard. And the Royal Guard got Immense Spiritual Power from a statement alone.

There, I've said my piece on why I think all the Sternritter should have Captain Level+ Reiatsu. To me, it just seems illogical to assume that Akon was referring to only 16 Sternritter when (when there was 17 shown, and a few more unseen, but present)~ SilverRain (talk) 19:31, July 14, 2015 (UTC)


 * Well its a moot point really. We can only determine who has what from what we seen (i.e. those who we saw in the first invasion) also in general most power level is determined by what each individual shows. Im not sure why such a thing so irrelevant is bothering you. Most of these characters are dead at this point. I would also point out random low level shinigmai dying isnot unheard of and doesnt say much about the opponents power level. Elite guard was only capable of defeat of the royal guard after a power up from yhwach prior to that they were all defeated by Oetsu with no release of power or otherwise besides simple swordsmanship.--

Stern Ritter's that lack Quincy Volstandig?
Is it worth adding a list of Stern Ritter's who lack the Quincy: Vollständig that appears only to be possessed by certain members, such as Robert?--JustaNobody (talk) 02:45, July 16, 2015 (UTC)

Shaz and Hubert
Why aren't they on the list? Both are Sternritter even if their epithets are unknown. Especially since Huebrt was the Vice-Captain 1000 years ago thats import to list.--AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 21:58, August 28, 2015 (UTC)

bump.--AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 20:51, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

In regards to Shaz, I'm fairly certain | you answered that question already. As for Hubert, he was a member of a previous iteration of the Sternritter, and the current list only features the members of the Sternritter seen in the current time period. However, if others believe he should be added I would have no objections. FutureQuincy (talk) 21:19, August 29, 2015 (UTC)

lol I did true, but at the same time I'm not entirely certain that the reveal in that is canon since it was written by Narita same as the other novels.

I think it couldn't hurt to list him i mean he was the 2nd in command of the original iteration so thats pretty important to list id say.--AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 21:23, August 29, 2015 (UTC)


 * Shaz and Hubert arent on the list cause they haven't ever been confirmed as being in the line up for the current sternritter.--

Deaths
I don't think Bazz-B, Liltotto, or Giselel are confirmed dead at all.--AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 06:24, September 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * "''I guess we really aren't ones to talk, either[...] It pisses me off that I couldn't kill you in the end ..."


 * No matter how you slice it, that's not something someone says unless they're about to kick the bucket. 07:53, September 3, 2015 (UTC)

Opinion.--AskinNakkLeVaar (talk) 08:08, September 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Look, in most cases it's impossible to 100% absolutely confirm whether or not someone has died, unless they've been reduced to ash or something. There are many instances in Bleach where an enemy has been killed, but it was never stated that they were. (Although it was self-evident that they were). If we're going to confirm deaths based purely on textual or oral confirmation, then by that logic the amount of people that died in this is series would be virtually nil.


 * Regardless, that statement by Liltotto is sufficient enough to quell any doubt that those three will be getting up again (somehow). 09:02, September 3, 2015 (UTC)