Forum:Was ulquiorra a vasto lorde? (Thread Closed)

when ulquiorra first appeared everyone thought that he was a vasto lorde i bet.I still believe it. with his first release he was able to kick vizard ichigo's butt without problem.Vizard ichigo is above an average captain so ulqiorra is far beyond an average captain so what do you think?

There is something to be said about interpretation. There really was nothing to note Ulquiorra actually being a Vasto Lorde beyond some fans hopes. The evidence used to support it is minimal and at the same time counts against him as well. Having said that there was more hype behind his power level but it turned out to be just that hype. Ichigo has the spiritual power level of a captain (which is confirmed) but he by no means is the most powerful in the series nor is he powerful enough to qualify at the level of a captain who has 50 to 100+ years of experience on him not to mention skills he can't even perform. Lets also mention that he has only learned to retain the mask for long periods of time, he doesn't know how to use the full capabilities of his hollow powers, nor how to maintain control without allowing his inner hollow to take possession. With all that in mind it says nothing about Ichigo's power compared to Ulquiorra's but says alot about how Ulquiorra can so easily beat Ichigo. In fact seeing as the only instance we have seen Ulquiorra fight seriously was verses Ichigo we can only really compare him to Ichigo and seeing as I stated before he could easily take Ichigo and then the second form kicks in and he suddenly begins to lose. Ichigo went from being barely able to keep up with Ulquiorra to totally owning him. So its not likely Ulquiorra was as powerful as he was insinuated to be with all the brooding and acting all superior, it doesn't qualify as confirming his strength. Even being one of the top espada doesn't guarentee a testament of almighty power, considering Barragan who is 2nd in power compared to Ulquiorra who is 4th in power, is the most powerful espada to date and is now dead. In the end Ulquirroa is dead and if for the sake of argument if he was a Vasto Lorde it doesn't say much about their power if they can be killed just like that.Salubri 04:53, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

-There really was nothing to note Ulquiorra actually being a Vasto Lorde beyond some fans hopes. The evidence used to support it is minimal and at the same time counts against him as well.-

Minimal? The only known picture of a Vasto Lorde is of Ulquiorra.

Yes, he's a Vasto Lorde.

- In the end Ulquirroa is dead and if for the sake of argument if he was a Vasto Lorde it doesn't say much about their power if they can be killed just like that. -

Always killed by more than a single captain (either a team or an awakened hollow-vizard), exactly as VLs are insinuated to be. The description of them was 'more battle power than a captain', not 'far beyond a captain' or 'stronger than two captains' or 'invincible' or anything like that, and both Ulquiorra and Barragan without a doubt showed beyond captain power. I'm not sure how you can say 'just' when that's how they were described in information about them all along, anything beyond that is pure speculation.

I do think what some fans place VL as is beyond what anyone in the series has described them like.ZeroSD 07:46, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

You just stated my point the speculation is fueled by fans who place the concept of Vasto Lorde beyond everything in the series in power level. First off thats not true it is a simple silhouette of any possible hollow VASTO LORDe he wasn't referring to arrancars and that is not proven at all that its ulquiorra, its pure speculation to assume so, a person can discern whatever they want from it but it doesn't prove anything along those lines. secondly where does it say anything about how a vasto lorde is killed or who it can be killed by. Its never even brought up to that level cause all that is ever stated of a vasto lorde being a arrancar is on what if terms and they are talking about the danger that would pose to soul society they do go into the detail of the vasto lorde themselves. Also like i previously stated Ulquiorra never fought a captain, yes someone with the spiritual power level of a captain but not a captain who is leagues away from ichigo. Ichigo is who he fought and as previously stated Ichigo has more weaknesses counting against him then advantages and in the end if you really want to use him he fought ulquiorra from jump with his hollow mask on and wasnt winning and then later with the new transformation he lost. If Ulquiorra was fighting ichigo beyond captain level then what level was ichigo at in this new transformation. The fact is you can only compare Ulquiorra to ichigo, the only one he actually fought, there is too many flaws in the combatant he faced for it to be an accurate understanding of his power. All that is proven is that a arrancar can be taken by a vizard far easier then a captain shinigami can take them. All that is in fact described about a Vasto Lorde is that they are extremely small in number, to the point you can count them on your fingers. They are roughly the same size as humans and that their combat capabilities are beyond that of captains. When there is something beyond a hollow silhouette and this little information then theres something to work with. Until then its speculation. Salubri 14:11, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

- First off thats not true it is a simple silhouette of any possible hollow VASTO LORDe he wasn't referring to arrancars and that is not proven at all that its ulquiorra, its pure speculation to assume so, - Pure speculation? It's a pretty unique silhouette.

-ll that is in fact described about a Vasto Lorde is that they are extremely small in number, to the point you can count them on your fingers. They are roughly the same size as humans and that their combat capabilities are beyond that of captains. When there is something beyond a hollow silhouette and this little information then theres something to work with. Until then its speculation.-

All of which is consistent with what we know of the upper Espada, and the silhouette is clearly just like Ulquiorra's headdress, which is at least one piece of solid evidence that goes past speculation.

You were saying 'there's nothing indicating he's a Vasto Lorde beyond fan hope', which isn't true. It fits the facts and we have an image. Then you said his power level was just hype and that if they can be killed 'just like that' it doesn't say much about their power, which is, again, not true, his power was beyond that of vizard Ichigo. Most captains < Vizard Ichigo < Ulquiorra. Again fitting with Vasto Lorde (he's beyond a *vizard*, who already have power of both captains and hollows), and showing extreme levels of power. His shown strength in itself is a good argument for him being a vasto lorde, and his image just adds to that. It's highly highly probable he's a vasto lorde and there's nothing going against it.

Please stop saying there's nothing to go on whenever this comes up, there's a fair amount of evidence which all lines up.ZeroSD 17:36, September 4, 2009 (UTC)