Talk:Ichigo Kurosaki

GIFS
i wanted to ask if people prefer gifs to jpg because ive got this great pic of ichigo taking the spritual pressure from rukia at the very start.KDOTKAY88 18:41, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

GIFs are for instantaneous abilities only (like Shinso's release, or Suzumushi's Benihiko). Arrancar109 (Talk)  19:13, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Removing Zangetsu (spirit) Section
Is there really any need to have the information on Zangetsu (spirit) on Ichigo's page? After all, Zangetsu already has a section of his own, along with the other Zanpakutō spirits. Shouldn't we remove that information? Seiyounashi 23:43, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

No. If you have noticed the only reason Zangetsu, Hyorinamaru and Zabimaru have their own pages is because they appeared in the anime only Unknown Zanpakuto Tales Arc. All information where they are featured on the wielder pages is the manga appearance. Anime only material is inconstant to the manga (which actually written and drawn by Kubo). These separate pages only detail information from the anime and considering that they are now largely over whatever information shown on those pages will be only from the two Unknown Zanpakuto Tales and Beast Sword arcs. Unless another anime only arc takes place featuring them. All canon information is listed on Ichigo's page entirely.Salubri (Talk)  23:55, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, OK, that makes sense. Seiyounashi 00:04, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Talks about Status as Sub Shinigami
Recently I was looking at the Omakes and I realized that Kuramada Zennosuke actually is a really minor shinigami. He lacked the knowledge about the reason Rukia was caught and sent back to Soul Society (which is supposed to be a big crime and big news), so I would not be suprised that he is not informed about the Substitue Shinigami Ichigo as he is such a minor character in Gotei 13. I do think this is a worth noting point to put on. -KingBlackChicken

Anime for Manga
Stupid Admins protected the page >_> So Ill leave this picture from the Anime here, so it can replace the one in Manga. Sorry about the Quality.

Sign your posts. The page is being overhauled, so it will not be unprotected. Also, you have to wait until the episode is subbed. It doesn't matter if we already know what's going to happen, it has to be subbed before we can even think about putting it onto any pages. Arrancar109 (Talk)  21:11, May 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Seems like I missed a discussion regarding this sometime ago, but I'd rather wait until a higher quality version of that image is uploaded. The image is of low quality, and I'd rather wait until a medium-quality or high-quality image is available. Arrancar109 (Talk)  21:44, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

The image is up. Arrancar109 (Talk)  05:51, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo's powers
On the first paragraph they state that Ichigo is a human with shinigami powers. Shouldn't it be that he is a human with both hollow and shinigami powers?

So far Ichigo himself has only shown Shinimgami powers. Only his Inner Hollow has used Hollow Powers, and only when possessing Ichigo. Evnyofdeath 19:41, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

First and Second Mask the Exact Same Thing?
I don't really see how Ichigo's first and second mask are any different from each other. Perhaps merge the two parts together?--Gold3263301 22:57, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. If I remember correctly, Ichigo's mask remained virtually unchanged, but it did gain more and more stripes up until his fight with Grimmjow. So, there are technically more masks, but it'd be easier to just sum it up in two sections. Mohrpheus 23:47, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

I've also noticed that his third mask says that the right eye shows neither scelera nor iris. However, Chapter 396, page 10 says otherwise. Apparently, during his brief rampage, his scelera is black and his iris is probably yellow.--Gold3263301 02:58, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Bringing up an important point (though this topic is a tad old), Chapter 379 page 5. I was right; Rukia says that the pattern has been gradually changing, gaining more and more stripes. It would not be accurate to say "first" and "second" masks; they should be described/organized in a different way. Mohrpheus 23:57, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Got this point awhile ago just haven't gotten to it, this a pointless conversation from the beginning. Salubri (Talk)  00:04, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Ending the Four Month Protection
This article has been protected for the past four months due to "extensive maintenance". Now I obviously wasn't here, but it would at least seem that the maintenance period is over, and the article should allow standard editing.--TheUltimate3 22:38, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Actually its not over it just has been slow going is all. The whole point of the protection is to keep extensive work from being messed up by high volume edits. There are many things to do on site and this page has been a big labor due to the amount of content on it requiring the attention of all admin available. Though It should have been done already. I'll speak to the others about getting the edits done and having it open by the end of next week. Salubri (Talk)  22:49, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I suppose I should explain that while the personality, appearance, history, equipment, powers&abilities affiliation and quotes sections have been put in order, the plot section is still being rewritten and updated. I've gotten the plot done for chapters 1-46 and once I reach chapter 68, the agent of the shinigami arc will be done. Chapters 47-68 are currently squashed into a single, short paragraph, leaving out a massive amount of info. It is extremely slow going due to the fact that Ichigo has so many appearances, but now that I'm passed Ishida's debut, he is appearing less and less, so I'm getting through them a bit quicker now. I'll get as much of that done over the weekend as I can. And yes, I agree that 4 months is excessive, but we are getting there. Yyp (Talk) 10:52, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Races
Why do you consider Ichigo is only a human and a vizard? He is a shinigami as well. He was born as a human, became a shinigami as a result of taking Rukia Kuchiki's shinigami powers, but (only) a substitute and became a vizard after subjugating his inner hollow. So, in fact, he is half-human, half-shinigami as stated by Captain Mayuri Kurotsuchi during the Fake Karakura Town. -- Gran Danku 16:59, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

By definition, a Vizard is a shinigami that has obtained Hollow powers, so I suppose that leaving shinigami there would have been redundant. However, I agree that shinigami should be put back in, considering that that is what Ichigo considers himself to be. There is also still the whole debate on whether or not Vizard is the name of Shinji's group or of the race itself. Mohrpheus 17:28, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Totally Opinion based topic. First He is a Shinigami because of his own powers not those he took from Rukia which were gone when she left back to Soul Society. Secondly He is a Substitute cause he is not a real Shinigami cause he still is living and has an actual human body technically. Thirdly a Vizard is a Shinigami who has attained Hollow powers. Gran Danku you have a tendency to to do alot of opinion based edits on the articles that are either incorrect or not necessary. A simple look through these pages Vizard, Shinigami, Hollow, Human, Ichigo Kurosaki would have corrected you on all those things you just stated entirely wrong. Also unless you can site where captain Kurotsuchi said such a thing it never happened. Seeing as that makes no sense being called half human and half spirit. You are either one or the other the only thing that covers is his partenage which is his father as a Shinigami and his mother as a human but his father was not a Shinigami at the time of he was born. Also until otherwise brought up by Kubo in the manga or elsewhere there is no debate on the Vizard being a group or race. Despite the fact that Ichigo can consider himself a Shinigami it doesn't make him one as he hasn't been since the inception of his hollow mask. We cant go by his ignorance of what he is because he isn't familiar with the spiritual world enough to be bothered with understanding races, techniques evolution or otherwise. Salubri (Talk)  19:40, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

Tensa Zangetsu
Does he deserve a face in the article if the old man does??SunXia 21:40, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

It will be determined later whether or not this pic will be placed in the powers and abilities section until such time anything placed there will be removed. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  21:42, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

If we do, I'd suggest having both images. Not sure if in the profile image or not, but if we go for that, we should pan both images together. Another possible option is to put a second spirit template for Tensa Zangetsu below Zangetsu's, as Zangetsu himself stated that he appears the way he does because Ichigo entered his Inner World in Bankai mode. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  22:54, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

If anything it should be featured in the article or split within the profile image there is no room for it be placed in a who other template. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  23:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

I woudln't have entered it into t he Article without permission, I just had a buzz and uploaded the picture then remembered we can't touch Ichigo due to the amount of spam that goes on in his profile so I just thought I'd put it here as a heads up!! SunXia 17:49, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Chapter 409 Plot
Ichigo's page is still locked. I've written a synopsis of chpt 409:

Ichigo emerges in his inner world, and is shocked to find himself underwater. He is ridiculed by a hooded figure. Ichigo asks who the figure is, as he was expecting to see Zangetsu, and is scolded by the individual. He pulls out Ichigo's Bankai. He removes his hood to reveal a young man and attacks, being not willing to teach Ichigo the final Getsuga Tenshō. He reveals himself to be the spirit of Tensa Zangetsu. While Ichigo says he wants to protect Karakura Town, Tensa Zangetsu states he doesn't care about that, and what he wants is something different. .

Do with it what you will. <font color="red" face="Verdana">TomServo101 <font color="red" face="Verdana">(Talk)  22:00, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

New Bankai image


I think Ichigo shuold get a new Bankai image instead of that stupid back veiw one.

I know im using a back veiw but mine is more detailed and shows more.&nbspHollowIchigo58 01:24, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

The current one is fine--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  01:34, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, there's no real reason to change it. The current image clearly shows Ichigo's bankai blade and outfit. Prophet of Sanghelios 01:42, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

these are way more better, because it show's the front of him and there more detailed and besides you changed Renji and Toushiro's bankai image why not Ichigo's, you people have absolutely no taste what so ever.HollowIchigo58 03:30, June 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * 1) Actually we all have opinion and everyone's taste is different, if we happen to like how the current one sits is our own perogative and we do not need to be insulted for it!! We respect that you have your own opinion but most of us so no reason to change the current image as it suits its purpose and like Lia Schiffer says, it's based on the original picture from when he first used Bankai, a pivotal moment in the series so it's nice the way it is!! SunXia 06:41, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

It's not a matter about "taste", it's about wether the image can properly show what it is meant to. In this case it's Ichigo's bankai, and the current image shows it just fine. I know your just trying to help, but we don't just replace long-standing images like this just because one person doesn't like it. Prophet of Sanghelios 03:42, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, please watch your language, insults are not tolerated in this wiki. As for your proposal, it is, as stated by others, simply unnecessary. We use the picture because it is based off from the original manga sketch drawn by Tite Kubo, from when Ichigo first used his Bankai, which is what we prefer to do. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  06:08, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Your right, you didn't ask for my opinion specifically. What you did do was propose that we replace an image with several alternatives that you provided. Generally what happens then is anyone interested enough will speak their opinion on wether the change is nessasary or not or provide alternative images themselves. Or what, did you just expect to put the images up and then what? No response at all? Prophet of Sanghelios 06:18, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

you change Sajin, Byakuya, Renji and Toushiro's bankai images.HollowIchigo58 06:44, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

The ones that were changed were for the sake of showing the entirety of the Bankai, in the case of large Bankais that couldn't be fully appreciated in the previous pictures. This is not Ichigo's case, there is no real need to change his current picture, as various users have pointed out already. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  06:52, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

They were changed because people decided they needed to be changed. Sajin's I believe was changed because the anime originally got the colour scheme wrong and so when he used it again in episode 220 we used a shot from there to show the correct colours. Hitsugaya I remember seeing someone say the image was poor quality and possibly not even from the anime. Renji and Byakuya were given much clearer and better quality images of their bankai upon request. All of these changes were agreed upon beforehand by the user's of this wiki, but right now those very user's are trying to tell you, this is not a nessasary change and we're all happy with what is being used currently. Prophet of Sanghelios 06:54, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Arc?!?
Are we going to put the current events (RKT events) under the FKT arc? <font color="dark grey" face="Tallys">BlazeUchiha <font color="red" face="Eurostile">(Talk)  13:48, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

We've had this discussion before, and recall ALL of the administrators saying that we're not going to make changes just yet. And I seriously don't want to see this question anywhere again, because it is unclear as to what direction these events are going, and we don't know how long the Deicide Chapters are going to be. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  16:34, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Why my edit it reverted?
The article as it is outright states that Ichigo's Inner Hollow was gains control of him after he's defeated by Ulquorria but then he manages to break free of it's control. This is innaccurate and has no evidence behind it, Ichigo can hollowify at will to a degree so why not further? Why would his inner hollow want to protect his friends when hollows normally want to kill friends and family members first? Plus he didn't "break free", Ulquorria caused his cero to explode causing the form to destabilise. All we see up into this point is a new more hollowified form similar to a ressurection and Ichigo in some form of beserk state...

Then Zangetsu outright states that Ichigo's fear isn't of his hollow but of the that form which causes Ichigo's destructive power to take over his heart. None of that implies anything other than Ichigo being the one in control of his body even if he wasn't in control of his own heart and mind at that point. "you feared transforming into this form, where your heart is overwhelmed by your own destructive power". If he was afraid of getting taken over by his hollow I think that would have been stated outright? No?

TL;DR: Don't edit back in your speculation.

MrGradius (talk) 02:03, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

We say this because it is directly shown. First, it is shown when Ichigo is killed by Ulquiorra, the hollow immediately takes over. It is not so much trying to protect Ichigo's friends as defeat Ulquiorra. It will not harm Orihime though because of Ichigo's desire to keep her safe. How you could say Ichigo is in control is beyond me. He nearly killed Uryu and seeing as when Ichigo finally comes to, the mask breaks and he can't remember what happened. His hollow took over, end of story--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  02:19, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

And that isn't speculation? Zangetsu stating that it was just the form causing Ichigo to lose his sanity is speculation but "Ichigo isn't acting like himself and has little memory of what happened therefore it must be his hollow" isn't? :| In real life when people undergo the fight or flight reflex they can often go "stab happy" and then "black out" the memory of it... does that mean their inner hollow took over? I can appreciate you not wanting to change it to reflect what I believe happened, that WOULD be speculation but so is what there is now, your opinions arn't fact either. What's wrong with changing it to something that reflects exactly what was shown to happen not what was implied or what you think probably happened?

MrGradius (talk) 14:11, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Godisme is correct. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between Ichigo and his Inner Hollow as shown thus far. The Inner Hollow has on numerous times stated that he desires to take over Ichigos body for himself and has in the past partially taken over in order to stop Ichigo being killed ( such as in the fight with Byakuya). When Ichigo hollowfied during the fight with Ulquiorra it was after he had been pushed to the brink of death, it is at this point that the Hollow again takes over. With ichigo at his weakest his will power alone can no longer hold back his inner hollow. Aside from this Ichigo in full hollow form attacks Uruyu, arguable one if Ichigos best friends. Furthermore in the most recent manga Ichigos Inner Hollow is seen int he full hollow form that Ichigo went into when fighting Ulqui, thus prooving that it was created under his influence. I dont see how you can continue to argue against these facts. GinIchimaru (talk) 14:29, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Tensa Zangetsu was shown wielding Tensa Zangetsu, by your logic Ichigo has never been in control of his body during Bankai. Ichigo's hollow is controls Ichigo's hollow powers, it would make perfect sense for him to be the one in that form, especially when the point of the fight it for Ichigo to confront that form.

Now I'm not saying Ichigo was necessarily in full control or even in control at all, simply that it wasn't necessarily his hollow taking over. Even then the caption "ichigo breaks free" would be incorrect, the form was shattered by UIquorria. It could be interpretted as Ichigo regaining his senses or being freed from his Hollow's control but "breaks free" implies that the cero exploding had no effect but that Ichigo was just fighting back for control which simply has no basis considering Ichigo was either unconcious during it (making it rather hard for him to "break free") or was in control but cannot remember it. Until one part of Ichigo's soul explicitly states that "lol he took over ur soul" it's going to remain speculation no matter what even if it would be a logical conclusion (similar to how it would be speculation to say that Hinamori, Hiyori, or Rangiku are dead even though they've been respectively stabbed and cut in half for several minutes).

MrGradius (talk) 14:53, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know what manga you read but it has been said that that form is his new hollow form. Ichigo had no control. That was his inner hollow. It is not speculation, it is fact. Cry all you want about it but the fact remains that Tite Kubo killed Ichigo and then had his hollow take over. More evidenced by the fact that he used Sonido during his fight with Ulquiorra.--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  14:59, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Killed? He's a soul, if he cannot die without his entire soul passing on to be reborn in the human world. That would be contrivining existing Bleach-universe logic.

We've seen the vizards use Cero but Sonido is impossible? That's speculation. Is it a new hollow form? Of course, there's clear. That doesnt mean he didn't force it out though.

There are a few facts that were stated though "that wasnt me". Ichigo's logical non-instinctive and "concious" side was definitely not in control. The destructive power form takes overwhelms Ichigo's heart and he fears the form specifically (this again is outright stated by a character in unambiguous terms). What would be the point of a form that takes over Ichigo's heart if Ichigo isn't even in control during it?

Unless of course you're saying that the following things are impossible: A vizard using hollow powers instinctively. Short term memory loss due to trama. Someone loosing control and going bat shit crazy to the degree they try and kill a friend.

I find the concept of a mortally wounded (it's actually shown over two pages that Ichigo is fully awake and concious of Inoue's attempts to heal him on the ground but unable to move) Ichigo hearing his friend's desperate sobs for help and pulling out his hollow's full power, getting overwhelmed by it and going temporarily insane as a result of it (which is what TZ's speech implies is the effect of the form) slightly more likely than Hollow Ichigo being brought out by Ichigo's will to protect Inoue and then going around chanting "I will protect you" rather than his usual "Ichigo you're so weak AHAHAH". Plus isn't Ichigo hurting his friends far more interesting to the plot than his hollow taking over again forcing a battle where Ichigo must use his true instincts to gain control of his soul once and for all ... again...?

There is atleast some "evidence" that points to both sides. I don't see what would be so terrible about changing the article to reflect what we saw happened rather than what may have been implied to have happened?

MrGradius (talk) 15:17, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Im done arguing, The facts are on our side but you seem to ignore them and substitute your own. This discussion is done. It is me, GinIchimaru and Salurbi against you. It will not be changed--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  15:42, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Hollow Mask
Why does the Hollowfication section show Ichigo's old Hollow mask as opposed to the new one?--暗闇の門番 - "Gatekeeper of Darkness" (言うことを何かを得た - "You got something to say?") 23:40, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

The anime has not shown his latest mask yet and the one there now is a really good shot of just the mask--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  23:47, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oh. Makes enough sense.--暗闇の門番 - "Gatekeeper of Darkness" (言うことを何かを得た - "You got something to say?") 23:52, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Tensa Zangetsu
It seems as though the chain on Tensa Zangetsu has lengthened that it wraps around his arm in the new chapter. Is this something we add now to Ichigo's Zanpakuto or will we wait until next chapter when there is more information? --Shinitenshi (talk) 00:24, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

We would have to know whats going on before we can actually add it. Right now all we know is that is much longer then normal and wrapped around his arm, the significance of this is still unknown as of yet. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  00:33, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

It looks as though something is attached to Ichigo's right arm at or where his wrist should be; that plus the fact you can see all of that arm except for the hand, and the outline of what is there looks a little thin as compared the to rest of his arm. Dontjuststandthere (talk) 01:17, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

This is nothing new, we have known that his shikai cloth extends and contracts to his will and Hollow Ichigo showed the same for the bankai chain--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  01:43, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

This is new: the chain is longer than his body!

Jinzen is how a person masters their Bankai. It's pretty much safe to assume that the lengthened chain represents his mastery since he's standing before Aizen. Kaihedgie (talk) 07:47, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me or Ichigo's hair got longer as well? DontCallMeCrazy (talk) 22:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

His does seem a little longer, but I doubt it has anything to do with the bankai. Three months is plenty of time for someone's hair to grow out that much. Mohrpheus (talk) 23:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

It's definately changed, because the manji on the hilt/guard is completely different, too. But we should wait until the change is explained until adding anything about it, so we don't have to do a lot of back editing and correcting...Gerokeymaster (talk) 23:22, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

The end of his bankai chain seems to be connected to/pierced his arm.http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/24565756/3 Near arm pit.Umishiru (talk) 10:45, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * No it does not. It wraps around it, but does not pierce or join it. 11:32, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Age
I think we should note somewhere that he isn't 16 anymore. Judging by his hair length and Isshin's beard growing longer, time obvious passed a great deal while in the Dangai. I doubt Ichigo is 16, but then again, this is speculation. Though, it is painfully obvious, and I'm sure many will agree with me on this note. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity 23:49, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

From what Isshin said in the chapter where he explained the dangai's time/space powers, he could only stop it from consuming them for three months, so we should assume the amount of time they were in there was at most...three months ^_^ Also, Ichigo's hair and Isshin's hair/beard aren't really that grown out. It looks like a couple of months worth of growth, at best. If they were in for a year or more, Isshin would be starting to look like Yama and Ichigo would look like his hollow...Gerokeymaster (talk) 23:54, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Isshin said he could hold it for 3 months, which is plenty of time for hair to grow out, as well as for a full beard to grow on a man who has not shaved within that time. There is nothing to support Ichigo being 17 or older; additionally, Ichigo is fighting Aizen in October and his birthday is in July. Another 6 months would have to pass in order for anyone to consider Ichigo older. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  23:58, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Powers & Abilities
Should the section be updated to reflect his recent power-up? Or should we wait for a while to see the full extent of his new abilities? Dok (talk) 03:18, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

It would be best to wait as the only thing we can really say is that Aizen can't sense his reiatsu and update the description of his bankai--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  03:22, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

New Arc
We are in a new arc already. All the stuff in Karakura Town after the Fake Karakura Battles should be moved.

Based on this interview:

http://forum.mangastream.com/showthread.php?t=5781

"The next arc will take place in Karakura town."Umishiru (talk) 10:21, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Zangetsu
On the section about zangetsu, should we also add a picture of Tensa zangetsu (the guy, not the sword)? Hardly worth the effort. 14:36, August 26, 2010 (UTC)