Talk:Zangetsu (Zanpakutō spirit)/Archive 2

High-Speed Regeneration GIF
Does anybody think it'd be worth putting in a GIF of when Ichigo's hollow hole is closed up? I was going to put in an image of it but when I rewatched the scene there's no chance for a single shot to show it's effect because the camera angle moves with the energy effect. Prophet of Sanghelios 01:03, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, since Prophet of Sanghelios brought this up, I have made a gif for the High-Speed Regeneration article showing Hollow Ichigo regenerating. It wasn't use in that article but its still available for use if people think there is a need for it. Tinni  (Talk)  13:17, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

I guess there's no harm in doing so, but I was wondering if it would be worth using a gif of when he regenerated his arm instead, back when that it spawned that huge monster thing to attack Kensei. I wasn't sure whether or not to include that on the regeneration page, but it seemed to be related to the ability. Mohrpheus (talk) 13:42, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Getsuga .gif
isn't there a better picture of Hollow Ichigo's Getsuga Tenshou than a GIF?--Dusk-sama (対談) 19:22, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

I think there was a question like this and we've had this come up before so basic answer is. If anyone has a personal issue or their computers running slow or whatever have you then as a whole everyone cannot be accommodated. Gifs are just as qualified as the pics are and in certain cases of depiction are required even more than pics. --Salubri (Talk)  19:55, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

yeah but it's kinda bad quality and the words that are visible at the bottom are kinda annoying. but whatever tickles your peach.--Dusk-sama (対談) 06:08, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

thanks muches--Dusk-sama (対談) 02:53, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Well I understand that I'll see about getting something better put up. Salubri (Talk)  13:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

thanks very muches--Dusk-sama (対談) 03:08, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't realise there was a problem with this gif but Dusk-sama is correct, I the old gif was the wrong size and very low quality. I can't do anything about the subtitles but I have remade it to the correct size and it's hopefully better quality now. Tinni  (Talk)  13:17, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Adding gif of his telekensis
could someone add it because I don't know how to. Crimsonterminator1000 02:06, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

It is very complicated as you have to download the video, convert it into a animated file viewable in an image editor, reduce frame sizes to prevent excessive file sizes and saving it as .gif. Plus much more. Hanzō 15:24, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

I have nothing against making a telekensis gif but is it necessary? It just shows zangetsu flying to him. Tinni  (Talk)  13:17, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

New Bankai Images
I thinks this image is better, because this a full body pic.


 * Better for what exactly? If you meant a profile image for the infobox, then those changes are to be discussed on Bleach_Wiki_talk:Image_Gallery. 15:53, December 23, 2011 (UTC)

inconsistency in what colors are used to describe his version of Zangetsu.
in the article the shikai is described as a black sword with a silver edge ( it's normal appearance) while in Ichigo's inner world he used a version of Zangetsu that had a silver blade with a black edge. the bankai is described as a daito with a white blade, crossguard and handle. ( it's appearance when HI uses it in Ichigo's inner world) while Tenza Zangetsu. is normally all black. which version should be used in the article the normal version or HI's Inner world version. I personally would prefer the inner world version but the important thing is that it is consistent.

also in the section describing the Enhanced Getsuga Tensho used in bankai it is is described as white ( in reference to the white GT that HI uses in ichigo's inner world ) but otherwise the description is identical to Ichigo's Enhanced GT including stating that the name is Kuroi Getsuga due to it's darkened color. ( which contradicts the earlier description of it as white.) what i propose is that the Enhanced Getsuga Tensho ( which should probably just be called Kuroi Getsuga to simplify things) is described as a black version of GT first used by HI and then the fact that HI uses a white GT in Ichigo's inner world instead of Kuroi Getsuga should be noted. Kamiryu (talk) 02:26, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the shikai and bankai, it should be described as it was in Ichigo's inner world. I cannot remember the Kuroi Getsuga so I can't really put in my opinion on that. I will fix the shikai for now and if it is disagreed upon, we can change it back--God (Pray)  02:43, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Hichigo's personality
"His only reason for existence is to take over Ichigo's power and body to use it to kill everything and anything he sees." The first half of that sentence is fine. But "kill everything and anything he sees?" I don't recall that ever being stated. Could somebody provide a manga chapter/page, and if nobody else can recall reading this, can we change it? Chubert (talk) 02:21, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Hollow Ichigo in Heat the Soul 7
The second version of Ichigo's Hollow appears in the new game Bleach: Heat The Soul 7 as a selectable character. I think this is worth mentioning. LordChaotic (talk) 05:10, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

It will be placed in his appearances in other media section when the game is released--God (Pray)  05:12, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

It is officially released in Japan as of Tuesday. http://www.gamefaqs.com/psp/995176-bleach-heat-the-soul-7/data LordChaotic (talk) 05:49, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

He's right; it is out. But it doesn't matter anymore. I already put up that his new Hollow form is playable in Heat the Soul 7. Arrancar109 (Talk)  05:57, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

villian?
in the article it has been stated that he is a antagonist/villian but the only bad thing he has actually done is to try to take over ichigos body with the rest of the time making ichigo stronger or saving his life. so i think that bit is a bit prejudice so could it be changed to something like byronic/anti heroKaran8 (talk) 20:01, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

The definition of "antagonist" is "person who opposes the protagonist." Ichigo is the protagonist. Hichigo opposes him, therefore, Hichigo is the villain. Chubert (talk) 20:52, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding that definition, we should consider Tensa Zangetsu a villian since Ichigo opposes him. In addition, he borrows powers from both Hichigo and Tensa Zangetsu (and none of them is an individual being as well). DontCallMeCrazy (talk) 21:05, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Forget it, we are not doing this.We have had this debate before, see Talk:Hollow_Ichigo/Archive_1, we are not having this debate again. Discussion closed. Tinni  (Talk)  21:07, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't a characters personality make sense?
Shoouldn't a characters personality make sense? Such as removing quotation marks from there, well, personalities?Iamnofool (talk) 00:51, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

It's fine the way it is. Arrancar109 (Talk)  00:56, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

How about adding to Hollow Ichigo's trivia?
How about adding to Hollow Ichigo's trivia? Such as him and Tensa Zangetsu's, fusion looking like Kisuke Urahara? Iamnofool (talk) 01:02, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

No, that's Junk Trivia. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  01:04, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

How about that, when they fuse they, have two different eye colors? How about that, when Hichigo and Tensa Zangetsu, fuse they have two unalike eye colours? Iamnofool (talk) 01:17, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not really sure of where do you want it, but that will probably be added to the description of the Hollowfied Tensa Zangetsu. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  01:22, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

It would make sense to have under Ichigo's, Zangetsu's, and Hollow Ichigo's trivia's? It would make the most sense to have it added to the following triva's; Ichigo's, Zangetsu's, and Hollow Ichigo's. Iamnofool (talk) 01:28, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

No, Hollow Ichigo has his own article, so he has hiw own Trivia section, there is no point in adding his Trivia section to Ichigo's article. Zangetsu, as a character of the Zanpakuto Unknown Tales arc (and of that filler arc only, not the manga character Zangetsu or Tensa Zangetsu as of yet), has his own article and has his own Trivia related to it. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  01:36, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Hollow Tensa
Um, shouldn't Zangetsu get an article, and we can add all of his stuff there (including things that happened when he was Hollow Tensa)?--私はあくまで執事ですから - "I'm one hell of a butler." ("Heaven?") 18:40, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

This is more or less in the process of being done. Zangetsu's anime-only article is going to be expanded to include the manga information. The information about "Hollow Tensa" will be included there, since he was the dominant personality in that form. Mohrpheus (talk) 18:47, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

As Mohrph said, We will be adding manga content to Zangetsu's article and that is where the information will be placed. Just be patient.--God (Pray)  18:56, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * YAY! I didn't think u lot were gonna do it, so I just thought I should ask--私はあくまで執事ですから - "I'm one hell of a butler." ("Heaven?") 00:04, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

Fan Names
I propose we delete Hollow Ichigo's fan names in the "Trivia" section, as I don't think it is necessary anymore. Back before we had the policies in place, when I was the only active administrator, I could see it then, since people kept putting these names in place of "Hollow Ichigo" and actually changed the article name as well, but now that the site is much more organized and we have a large amount of policies in place, especially to stop the previous behaviors that I've mentioned, I think we can effectively keep his fan names off entirely. All in all, with our policies and guidelines in place, I think we can delete Trivia points #2, #4, and #5, and we can probably put Trivia point #1 in the "Personality" section. What do you guys think? Arrancar109 (Talk)  01:13, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Fan content has no place on the site--<font color="#660066" face="Verdana">God <font color="#660066" face="Verdana">(Pray)  01:28, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

I'm in full agreement. The problem with fan terms is that their so-called "popularity" is relative, and in many cases, only apply to a select demographic in a specific set of fan websites. It isn't as though they were universally recognized, and the fact that there were so many nicknames doesn't support the idea. Worse of all, the information cannot be referenced in any way that would abide by our standards in the slightest. Mohrpheus  (Talk)  01:46, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Well, since there are reasons to get rid of it and no reasons to keep it, I'm going to go ahead with this. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  03:13, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Unregistered Technique
It has come to my attention that there is a missing Bankai attack for Hollow Ichigo. This technique is called Kuroi Getsuga, which translates to Black Moon Fang. I state that I found this and has been missed. This technique is seen when Hollow Ichigo is fight Kuchiki Byakuya. To me, it looks like a spiraling but stronger Getsuga Tensho, has enhanced colors, and can be shot multiple times. But please remember, that its named differently and we might know more about this later. Seto Uchiha (talk) 15:17, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

Amusing, really amusing manner of wording things but no. There is no such thing as "Kuroi Getsuga". It's what Byakuya called the black getsuga tenso that both Ichigo and Hollow Ichigo perform in bankai. Moments before, Byakuya saw Ichigp perform a getsuga tenso that was blue, while he was in shikai. After this hollow took over, the getsuga changed colour and became black. So Byakuya went "a black getsuga? That's different!". That's all. Neither Ichigo, nor Hollow Ichigo or Zangetsu for that matter, has ever called that technique anything but Getsuga Tenso. Remember this, techniques are named by individuals who wield them, NOT their opponents and adding the word "kuro" in front of Getsuga has always been a way to differentiate the Getsuga that Ichigo can do while in bankai and the one he does in shikai. Tinni  (Talk)  16:40, January 23, 2011 (UTC)

Voice Actor
During his first appearance, not only did Hollow Ichigo have black teeth but also the same voice as Ichigo. Later on his teeth change to white and his voice is different. I don't know if Ichigo's voice actor is putting it on but I personally doubt that because it sounds so different. Bleach Episode 39 definitely had him with a very identical voice to that if Kurosaki Ichigo (must be same voice actor).

Next, specifically while Ichigo trained with the Visored, Hollow Ichigo's voice had changed again, to a different, more sharp and high-picthed voice.

The question here is, was he voice by the same person the whole way through or not? If not, they should be said in his Trivia or by where it speaks of his voice actor [below picture].

Can you prove he has a different VA?? SunXia  (Chat)  12:12, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope. that's definitely the same VA that voices him during the Visored training!! SunXia   (Chat)  12:26, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Could his "Enhanced Durability" be a hierro for his second control form?
I mean someone like Ulquiorra, slash with getsuga-enhanced zangetsu on his resucurion, i think thats how you spell it, nothing happens, second level hollow form, grabs Ulquiorras lance barehanded, smashes it, no damage, couldnt this be a hierro?


 * Unless it is stated in the manga to be Hierro, then it is not hierro. We can't go around speculating about information like that. We only put in what we know. Also, please sign your comments. <font color="#008080" face="Verdana">Ten Tailed Fox  <font color="#FF0000" face="Verdana"> (Talk with me) 17:08, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Merged with Tensa Zangetsu
Would it be permissible to add section to his abilities about his fused form with Tensa Zangetsu, and its abilities? After all, Zangetsu has a section dedicated to it. I see no reason why Hollow Ichigo shouldn't either. <font color="#008080" face="Verdana">Ten Tailed Fox  <font color="#FF0000" face="Verdana"> (Talk with me) 17:13, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * That seems fine, just work with the same format.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  17:26, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Possible Trivia
Has anyone else noticed that breaking Hollow Ichigo's new form's horn makes the transformation dissipate? It only happens once in canon, but it happens twice in the 4th movie. First when Renji cut the horn, and later, Ichigo breaks the horn himself and it halts the transformation. Should this at least be given a trivia bullet? <font color="#008080" face="Verdana">Ten Tailed Fox  <font color="#FF0000" face="Verdana"> (Talk with me) 23:38, September 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Id only deal in canon info here. And you have to remember that the cutting of the horn caused a Cero to explode in his face. It is not possible to attribute the cutting of the horn itself to dissipating the form. Would it have happened if there was no Cero to explode? We cannot know, so I don't think it should be said. Simply noting in the plot what happened is sufficient from my point of view. 11:07, September 5, 2011 (UTC)

Keen Intellect or whatever
I should've realized this a long time ago, but I only noticed today: Where on earth did we get the "realize mistakes in Ichigo's own tactics and correct them himself" and "perfectly adapt his fighting style to counter the opponent's strategy" jargon from? I have never seen that happen; he fights without any reason or rhyme as far as I have seen, save for completely and brutally crushing any and all of his opponents. There has to my knowledge been no instance of him ever thinking about how to counter his opponent's strategy, and he has certainly never acted through Ichigo to correct his mistakes for him. This sounds very fanfiction or speculation-ish to me. <font color="grass" size="2px">Aeron Solo wuz here <font color="gold" size="1px">(If you wanna talk)  18:15, September 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * He corrected Ichigo's mistakes by showing how to properly use Zangetsu as the flail. He has shown numerous times that he can counter his opponents fighting styles, squaring off against Ichigo and adapting his own moves as well as his fight against Muramasa.--


 * Adapted to their fighting styles, or just barraged them with attack after attack to leave no room for his opponent to counterattack? Because, you have to admit, he's been doing a lot of that. <font color="grass" size="2px">Aeron Solo wuz here <font color="gold" size="1px">(If you wanna talk)  18:29, September 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * He has adapted. When he fought Ichigo, as soon as Ichigo started to gain the upper hand, he switched tactics, releasing Bankai along with Ichigo. Remember, he is nothing but instinct when has has control over Ichigo's body but when he is inside Ichigo's inner world, he is a very capable fighter.--
 * I realize he is very capable; I applauded him for being all over the place when fighting Muramasa, that was my favorite moment with him in it. But if I remember correctly, Ichigo never had the upper hand before the last heroic-resolve power boost. He was still getting pummeled either way. Unless you count releasing Bankai at the same time as Ichigo as "started to gain the upper hand", but that was a slightly obvious thing; if someone brings out their biggest gun, you bring out your biggest gun. That's the only obvious tactic change. Otherwise, he's really just been doing his own thing, which is a brutally efficient beat-down "strategy" which murders anyone that gets in his way. With Muramasa, he wasn't doing things too differently from how he treated Ichigo either. <font color="grass" size="2px">Aeron Solo wuz here <font color="gold" size="1px">(If you wanna talk)  18:40, September 10, 2011 (UTC)

Irises color
It seems like even in color panels of the manga Hollow Ichigo has white irises, and not only on a volume cover. Can it really be counted as a trivia fact and not more than that? Adi212 (talk) 17:55, September 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Seeing as manga trumps anime, I will reverse these.--

Appearance
"He also has his own version of Zangetsu, Ichigo's Zanpakutō: In contrast to Ichigo's black cleaver with a silver edge wrapped in white cloths, his own Zangetsu is silver with a black edge and black wrapping cloths."

Is it really should be in Hollow Ichigo's appearance? It's already written in his Zanpakutō section, isn't that enough? Adi212 (talk) 16:59, September 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Good point. I'll change it to reflect this. <font color="#008080" face="Verdana">Ten Tailed Fox  <font color="#FF0000" face="Verdana"> (Talk with me) 02:28, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Personality
Shouldn't we mention that he became somewhat calmer, despite his destructive nature? He was shown to be protective of Ichigo's important persons, to a certain extent. He protected Inoue from Ulquiorra (but stabbed Ishida), and saved Yuzu from Kokutō in the Hell, as well as taking a direct hit for Rukia from Yushima's attack in the latest anime arc. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk  14:44, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Zanpakutō powers
It seems that a big part of his Zanpakutō powers was copied from Ichigo's page, and then a bit edited. I'm aware that they use the same Zanpakutō, and that some of its features displayed by Ichigo can be mentioned on this page. When I began to reference this copied text, I noticed it includes a small part of references which are present on Ichigo's page. If you do not mind, I'd like to add the rest of references and to edit bankai part so that includes more of Hichigo's bankai features. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk  04:23, December 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * That sounds fine. Sadly in the old days people copied and pasted info without checking (or caring) that it is written about someone else and not taking the time to make it about the character whose page they were adding it to. 11:30, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

It should be noted that hollow ichigo and his zanpakuto can arguably be one in the same. They show this when he is training before defeating Aizen. Hollow ichigo is in some ways a extension of his zanpakuto's abilities, a point break of sorts. He only shows up when Ichigo is near death/defeat and seems to have complete access to Ichigos riatsu and abilities.

Irkillroy (talk) 04:41, December 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is well established that Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo are two parts of the same being. 11:30, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

I'm still working on article, but I have a few questions I'd like to ask. H.Ichigo caught a zanpakuto's blade with his hand several times and didn't get cut. Should we count this as enhanced durability? Also, I can't find a corresponding reference for his enhanced speed in the first hollow form. The closest would be when he jumps quickly on Lisa  and heads toward Kensei. However, he was also in bankai state at the time, which would make him faster than normal. So, I'm not sure whether to leave it unreferenced or to delete it. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk  20:18, February 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I've found an anime reference for his speed. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk  20:41, February 16, 2012 (UTC)

-

Well, I finished what I could do. The paragraph about his spiritual energy in bankai still needs an overhaul, because it mainly focuses on Ichigo. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   02:46, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

I shortened the mentioned paragraph and added some new info. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   02:22, March 21, 2012 (UTC)

First holow form secound version
<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: normal;"> Notice the mask it's different. Permision to add. Ultimatex <sup style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; ">(talk) 20:56, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: normal;">The image lacks a rationale and violates the Bleach Wiki:Image Policy, and that form of Hollow Ichigo is non canon and therefore holds no place to be placed on his profile other than the filler arc itself. Plus, please place your messages at the bottom of the talk page, not the top. --<font color="green" size="3px">Cathal O'Hara <font color="yellow" size="1px">(Talk)  21:02, December 16, 2011 (UTC)

<p style="border-style: initial; border-color: initial; font-style: normal;">Should i add it in the Gotei 13 Invading Army arc Ultimatex (talk) 20:58, December 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * As Cathal said, the image has no legal tagging and until it has that it cannot go anywhere. As for the suggested location, there is very little text there and there are already two pictures in that section. There isn't room for it. 17:00, December 20, 2011 (UTC)

Enhanced Cero gif


Should we replace the picture of his cero with this animation because his first form has it, should the second have it. Ultimatex (talk) 01:30, December 18, 2011 (UTC)

White Ichigo
When was the Hollow form of Ichigo ever refered to as white ichigo??

This name is what readers/viewers call him to simplify his naming and should not be on the WIKI as if it's an official reference. If by chance I'm wrong then please give a reference to this naming or get rid of his alias'.

Irkillroy (talk) 04:30, December 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I have no idea where that is from, but if it is called that in an official source, then it is most likely a video game that calls him that. 11:30, December 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * In Unmasked he is referred as White Ichigo (page 156, 白一護) and Ichigo Kurosaki (page 150, 黒崎 一護). --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   11:46, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Then can we get those references put in on the page? Irkillroy (talk) 23:41, December 24, 2011 (UTC)

Possession
I'm thinking about moving this ability to his hollow powers section. When the Hollow takes over, Ichigo's body undergoes a mild hollowfication, causing his eyes to change and the mask begins to form. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk  21:06, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * No longer needed. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   01:45, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

Trivia
The front page of chapter 483 shows a pattern on Ichigo's hood which resembles his old Hollow mask. Is this an item that can be added to 'Trivia'?--Empty moon (talk) 16:37, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Shunpo
Are we sure Hollow Ichigo is a Shunpo Expert? I know that we use all the powers of Ichigo as a basis for Hollow Ichigo's abilities, but I've never actually seen him use Shunpo. Shouldn't we change it to Enhanced Speed? --Xilinoc (talk) 04:07, December 4, 2012 (UTC)

Current Status
Considering Ichigo lost his powers but then regained them is hollow ichigo still around, or was he destroyed along with the old powers?--Lordxehanort (talk) 21:32, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * Hollow Ichigo fused with his old Shinigami powers, which Ichigo lost when he used the Final Getsuga Tensho. We do not know if he has regained them since as we have not seen any instance of him using them. Kamikaze839 (talk) 21:37, February 27, 2013 (UTC)