Bleach Wiki:Chat/December 15, 2012

 [11:41]  you cant just end a discussion..... [11:41]  so yeah. Sneak it in low key *nod* [11:42]  So yeah, I am thinking just leave the page name alone and put the no Jirou on to the introduction paragraph mention of his name [11:42]  or translate Jirou to Second Son... [11:42]  I am glad I am not a mod xD [11:42]  *bangs head against desk* [11:42]  WHY KUBO WHY? [11:42]  Hi KuroAshi98, welcome to the Bleach Wiki Chat! Please remember to follow our Bleach Wiki:Chat Policy when you are here. Also note that you need ten productive edits to articles to be in here otherwise you will be asked to leave. [11:42]  my issue is we know that he's a second son in no way is that his name [11:43]  Yo guys, what's up? [11:43]  Hey K [11:43]  the trouble is, salubri, it is... [11:43]  part of his name [11:43]  because its [11:43]  there [11:43] <Vraieesprit> &gt;&lt; [11:43] <Godismebot> HAI KURO [11:43] <Vraieesprit> but as you say, its not a name [11:43] <SunXia> letters are often very formal in that instance [11:43] <SunXia> i dont think we need those names in the title [11:43] <Vraieesprit> well when i talk about cultural elements salubri yells at me :P [11:43] <Salubri> thats my point its not his name just cause its there its a form of official address used in that letter [11:44] <Vraieesprit> salubri, it is his name [11:44] <Salubri> what we are asking it what is his name plain and simple [11:44] <Vraieesprit> his name is kyouraku no jirou souzousa shunsui [11:44] <Vraieesprit> that is all his name [11:44] <Salubri> not what the thing says but what his actual name [11:44] <SunXia> Do you call Queen Victoria by her full name??? [11:44] <SunXia> no [11:44] <Vraieesprit> queen victoria is dead [11:44] <Vraieesprit> o.o [11:44] <SunXia> hes not real o.o [11:44] <Vraieesprit> but if you want a real example [11:44] <Vraieesprit> Minamoto no Kurou taiyuu no Hougan Yoshitsune [11:44] <SunXia> my point being there are always parts of names not included [11:44] <Vraieesprit> ^^ real samurai name [11:45] <Vraieesprit> all that said though [11:45] <SunXia> i dont introduce myself with BA at the end of my name but thats my official title [11:45] <Vraieesprit> don't [11:45] <Vraieesprit> for the love of sanity [11:45] <Vraieesprit> change the name of his page [11:45] <SunXia> i know his real long name [11:45] <Vraieesprit> but do try and put the full name somewhere on his page. [11:45] <Godismebot> Sun SunXia BA [11:45] <Godismebot> doesnt seem right [11:45] <Godismebot> Oh wait, I know why [11:46] <SunXia> lol [11:46] <Godismebot> Sun Devilwoman SunXia BA [11:46] <Salubri> im the first born son i dont have that in my name though [11:46] <Vraieesprit> o.O [11:46] <Godismebot> that sounds better [11:46] <Jushiro971> :o [11:46] <Vraieesprit> you're not japanese [11:46] <Vraieesprit> or a samurai [11:46] <Vraieesprit> :P [11:46] <Salubri> he isnt a samurai either [11:46] <Vraieesprit> he is [11:46] <Vraieesprit> its in his biography in vol 18 [11:46] <SunXia> hes a shinigami [11:46] <Vraieesprit> he's from a samurai family [11:46] <Vraieesprit> :P [11:46] <Vraieesprit> hence the name [11:46] <KuroAshi98> I SHALL CHECK IT THEN [11:46] <Salubri> really i don't recall that at all [11:46] <SunXia> hey kuro lol [11:47] <Jushiro971> Sun's not a Devilwoman, God [11:47] <Godismebot> That is her name [11:47] <Salubri> he is from an aristocratic family [11:47] <Godismebot> She is devilwoman [11:47] <SunXia> lol [11:47] <KuroAshi98> Boop he's right [11:47] <Godismebot> This was on a trivia quiz I made for a friend once [11:47] <Godismebot> What is SunXia's real name [11:47] <Godismebot> Answer: Devilwoman [11:47] <Salubri> lol [11:48] <SunXia> made by him might i add [11:48] <SunXia> or reinforce [11:48] <KuroAshi98> "Second son of the high-ranking Kyoraku family. Born to a long line of martial artists, but hates academics and martial arts. Forced to enter the Soul Reaper Academy because he was leading an aimless life. [11:48] <Jushiro971> ... [11:48] <Salubri> yea we knew that [11:49] <Vraieesprit> the japanese says its a buke [11:49] <Vraieesprit> a military family [11:49] <Vraieesprit> aka a samurai family [11:49] <Vraieesprit> *waves book* [11:49] <Salubri> thats a leap [11:49] <SunXia> samurai is different from military [11:49] <Vraieesprit> no it isnt [11:49] <SunXia> so someone in the imperial navy is a samurai ?? [11:49] <Salubri> apparently [11:49] <KuroAshi98> There's a difference between an aristocratic family and a family of martial artists lol [11:49] <Vraieesprit> there's also a difference between a japanese term [11:50] <Vraieesprit> and a western understanding of that term [11:50] <Salubri> a family i high standing regardless kuro [11:50] <KuroAshi98> Samurai are military, yeah. [11:50] <Godismebot> Vraie, does this seem right? http://bleach.wikia.com/index.php?title=Shunsui_Ky%C5%8Draku&amp;action=historysubmit&amp;diff=335883&amp;oldid=335293 [11:50] <Vraieesprit> a buke family in japanese is synonymous with a samurai family. :P [11:50] <KuroAshi98> Well I thought the debate was over whether he was from a family of samurai and the whole second son thing. [11:50] <KuroAshi98> Iunno, I came in late to the discussion lol [11:50] <Vraieesprit> God, no, because as I said before, Jirou has to connect to the surname [11:50] <Vraieesprit> otherwise as you've written it he's the second son of shunsui [11:50] <Vraieesprit> which [11:51] <Vraieesprit> is a bit painful to contemplate, though possibly not beyond him [11:51] <Vraieesprit> given his flirting [11:51] <KuroAshi98> "Samurai were the military nobility of pre-industrial Japan." [11:51] <KuroAshi98> Boop - he's right again. [11:51] <Salubri> wait a minute [11:51] <Vraieesprit> I have a degree in this Kuro :P [11:51] <Vraieesprit> in japanese and in samurai stuffs :P [11:51] <KuroAshi98> I'VE GOT YOUR BACK [11:51] <Vraieesprit> i am trying to be helpful :P [11:51] <SunXia> But saurai was not until the 12th century we do not know how old Kyoraku is to assume he is samurai [11:51] <Salubri> Shunsui Kyoraku is fine but if no jiron then its not [11:51] <Vraieesprit> jirou [11:51] <Vraieesprit> and erm [11:51] <Godismebot> Alright, so give it to me again, how would you recommend putting it' [11:52] <Vraieesprit> samurai existed before the 12th century, SunXia [11:52] <Vraieesprit> and since Bleach is set in an edo setting [11:52] <Vraieesprit> thats irrelevant [11:52] <Vraieesprit> erm [11:52] <Vraieesprit> Shunsui Souzousa Kyouraku no Jirou [11:52] <SunXia> ys but wasnt until 12th century that it was equal to samurai [11:52] <Vraieesprit> SunXia, the shogunate began in the 12th century [11:52] <SunXia> what its set in and how old kyoraku is is not the same [11:52] <Godismebot> Isn't that how I have it? [11:52] <Vraieesprit> hang on, maybe i need to refrehs [11:52] <Godismebot> Shunsui Shōzōsa Kyōraku no Jirō [11:53] <Vraieesprit> ah [11:53] <Vraieesprit> yes you do [11:53] <Godismebot> is what I put in the article [11:53] <Vraieesprit> gomen [11:53] <Vraieesprit> its the alternate romanisation that's in the other order [11:53] <Vraieesprit> and just because Minamoto no YOritomo began the shogunate in the 1180s/90s [11:54] <Vraieesprit> does not mean samurai were magically invented then :p [11:54] <Godismebot> Hi Dark Seeker Kotsu, welcome to the Bleach Wiki Chat! Please remember to follow our Bleach Wiki:Chat Policy when you are here. Also note that you need ten productive edits to articles to be in here otherwise you will be asked to leave. [11:54] <Vraieesprit> and since the edo period began in 1603, and that's bleach's setting [11:54] <SunXia> i never thought so it was taken from poems i am aware of my history [11:54] <Godismebot> Hey Kotsu [11:54] <Vraieesprit> ...i think we can safely say shunsui can be a samurai [11:54] <Dark Seeker Kotsu> Hey... [11:54] <SunXia> but that is still assuming [11:54] <SunXia> hey Kotsu [11:54] <Vraieesprit> Gomen, but my specialist area of japan is the twelfth century and the samurai clans :p [11:55] <SunXia> we have never heard of in bleach "this is a samurai" theyre spirits [11:55] <Salubri> ok here is the problem Bleach is not set in the edo period its set in a concept that takes many respects from the edo period. Secondly the names on the sight is written with western point of view. Putting no Jiron on the end of his name would signify to the english that Jiron is his last name. i dont need samarui/edo version i need version that translates into a western understanding [11:55] <Vraieesprit> Salubri [11:55] <Vraieesprit> its jirou [11:55] <Vraieesprit> :P [11:55] <Salubri> whatever [11:55] <Vraieesprit> and if you want to do a wiki on a japanese subject [11:55] <SunXia> saurai, written in poems, was still only ~900AD [11:55] <Vraieesprit> you need to accept certain levels of japanese [11:55] <Vraieesprit> because otherwise people are going to mock you [11:56] <Salubri> who exactly [11:56] <SunXia> its not set in 1600s japan, its set in SS that looks like it [11:56] <Salubri> oh people that are japanese cause they come here [11:56] <Vraieesprit> xDD [11:56] <Godismebot> Okay, basically what I am getting is that if we add the full name, there is no way we can get out of tacking no Jirou onto the end because it would not make sense otherwise [11:56] <Vraieesprit> Well you can get around it by [11:56] <Vraieesprit> putting Shunsui Souzousa Kyouraku, Second Son [11:57] <Vraieesprit> that would remove the surname problem and be nice and English-y [11:57] <SunXia> or just the first part, its already mentioned he is the second so [11:57] <Salubri> ture [11:57] <Salubri> true [11:57] <Godismebot> But second son is a part of the name [11:57] <Vraieesprit> it is. [11:57] <Godismebot> Whether it is already mentioned or not, it is a part of his name [11:57] <Salubri> interestingly enough we dont seem to know how [11:57] <Vraieesprit> I know how [11:57] <Vraieesprit> you won't listen how [11:57] <Vraieesprit> ask adam :p [11:57] <KuroAshi98> Oh snap [11:57] <Salubri> thats not goood enough, he said he doesnt know [11:57] <Vraieesprit> well thats because he doesn't speak japanese. [11:58] <Salubri> if i cant understand it then i dont see the point [11:58] <Vraieesprit> he's just a very intelligent linguist who knows a lot about characters [11:58] <Salubri> ok forget it throw it into the trivia section and call it a day [11:58] <Vraieesprit> hang on [11:58] <Vraieesprit> let me see if I can find something that explains it [11:59] <Godismebot> Sal, if we add the full name, we have to put no Jirou on the end because that IS part of the full name. I know from my study of german that last names often consisted of the german of "son of x" [11:59] <SunXia> his name is Kyoraku though [11:59] <Godismebot> Yes, that is his last name [11:59] <Salubri> Shunsui Kyoraku (first name, surname) [12:00] <Vraieesprit> agree [12:00] <Godismebot> And full name is Shunsui SHozosa no Jirou [12:00] <Vraieesprit> kyouraku no jirou [12:00] <Vraieesprit> the no jirou has to go with the surname [12:00] <Godismebot> my mistake, forgot the kyoraku [12:00] <Godismebot> If you dont want to add the no Jirou to the end, then his full name cannot be added [12:01] <Salubri> I dont need Byakuya Kuchiki, first son, out of (mothers name), from Sojun Kuchiki [12:01] <Godismebot> But thats not his name [12:01] <SunXia> sal has a point [12:01] <Godismebot> Shunsui's actual given name is Shunsui Shozosa Kyoraku no Jirou [12:01] <Vraieesprit> So basically, bleach wiki is only going to record the information salubri thinks is in bleach [12:01] <Vraieesprit> rather than [12:01] <Salubri> people dont name themselves like that anymore [12:01] <Vraieesprit> the information Kubo tite thinks is in bleach [12:01] <Vraieesprit> o.O [12:01] <Godismebot> But they do in Bleach [12:01] <Godismebot> Because Kubo gave him that name [12:02] <SunXia> in a letter and official letter [12:02] <Salubri> well name me who else has a name like that, go ahead ill wait [12:02] <Godismebot> Whether we like it or not, that is his name [12:02] <Vraieesprit> Sasakibe Choujirou Tadaoki [12:02] <Godismebot> No one else in the series so far [12:02] <Salubri> titel [12:02] <Salubri> title [12:02] <Vraieesprit> the person who you decided, Salubri, couldn't have his real name because you didn't understand it.... [12:02] <Salubri> watch it [12:02] <Vraieesprit> even though choujirou means main second son [12:02] <Vraieesprit> watch what? [12:03] <Vraieesprit> o.o [12:03] <Vraieesprit> am i wrong? [12:03] <Vraieesprit> besides, the fact is this is a japanese series. [12:03] <Godismebot> Sal, if you want it your way, his name remains Shunsui Kyoraku no mention of the other names [12:03] <SunXia> as in dont be rude about it if you disagree do so you dont need to make it out like hes the only one disagreeing [12:03] <Salubri> thats fine [12:03] <Godismebot> If we put it the way Kubo put it, then it has to have no Jirui on the end [12:04] <Vraieesprit> Perhaps i overstepped the line [12:04] <Vraieesprit> Sorry, Salubri [12:04] <Vraieesprit> Point noted, SunXia [12:04] <KuroAshi98> It's hardly being rude when Sal himself stated he didn't understand [12:04] <Vraieesprit> sometimes i am too direct, especially when something seems obvious to me. [12:04] <Godismebot> I am fine with leaving the article name as Shunsui Kyoraku but the intro paragraph should have his name as Vrai has said [12:04] <Vraieesprit> well thats what i thought, it wasn't meant offensively [12:05] <Salubri> its not a jump for me to understand something, my point is we are getting to deep into this. What i wanted to know was what order the name goes in western style and whats actually a name and a title [12:05] <Vraieesprit> Okay. Well. In western style the name goes Shunsui Souzousa Kyouraku no Jirou. [12:05] <Vraieesprit> and Shunsui is his first name [12:06] <Vraieesprit> Kyouraku is his last name [12:06] <Vraieesprit> Jirou is his family position [12:06] <Vraieesprit> Souzousa is his "title" [12:06] <Vraieesprit> all of it is his name [12:06] <Salubri> my issue with putting no jirui on the end is we will have no end of people thinking that we changed his last name [12:06] <Vraieesprit> I agree with you [12:06] <Vraieesprit> even though we've crossed here, I think people might think that too. ALTHOUGH [12:06] <Vraieesprit> a lot of bleach fans.... [12:06] <Vraieesprit> are very japanese savvy about names [12:06] <Vraieesprit> and japanese name order. [12:06] <SunXia> right in things like this, in wiki and such they usually list all titles and full titles and names at the bottom or as in like the trivia [12:07] <Godismebot> Thats why we leave the article title alone and then just make the into paragraph have the full name [12:07] <Vraieesprit> Can you do that for Shunsui? [12:07] <Vraieesprit> Like, leave him as Kyouraku Shunsui [12:07] <KuroAshi98> Yeah I was just about to say the same thing as God [12:07] <Vraieesprit> and then put his full name, the JAPANESE way around... [12:07] <Vraieesprit> so you don't have to mess with it [12:07] <Vraieesprit> in trivia [12:07] <Vraieesprit> with an explanation ? [12:07] <Vraieesprit> I will write it for you if you want me to... [12:07] <Godismebot> if someone asks, we explain to them that the no Jirou is not his last name but his family position [12:07] <KuroAshi98> He's best known as Shunsui Kyoraku. [12:07] <KuroAshi98> Full name, lesser known name, can go in the intro. [12:07] <Salubri> actually more people who come here from my experience know nothing of japanese culture, those that do are a handful of people. [12:07] <SunXia> of course [12:08] <Vraieesprit> the other forums I translate for are pretty savvy [12:08] <Godismebot> We dont get many people here who know much about japan [12:08] <SunXia> in the trivia thers more room to explain it rather than having people confused [12:08] <Vraieesprit> The trouble is... [12:08] <Vraieesprit> when those of us do come along [12:08] <Vraieesprit> we get... [12:08] <Vraieesprit> not much encouragement [12:08] <Salubri> just put it at the top like you have it, Marechiyo has his full name up as well [12:09] <Vraieesprit> or just plain disbelieved &gt;&lt; [12:09] <Godismebot> I think we need to re-evaluate our article naming process here. I think article names should reflect refer to name, not full names [12:09] <KuroAshi98> It's okay Vrai, I believe you. :3 [12:10] <Vraieesprit> Well, I just want it understood that I don't make stuff up to vex you people. [12:10] <Vraieesprit> if I don't know the answer, I don't try to translate it or suggest it [12:10] <Salubri> that could work, unless they are stated like Yamamoto's though we might as well keep chojiro's its already up [12:10] <Vraieesprit> and ive had a lot of fairly hostile comments when I've done that up to now [12:10] <Vraieesprit> If you want to do proper names, you could make it Yamamoto Shigeku.... [12:10] <Vraieesprit> sorry [12:10] <Vraieesprit> Shigekuni Yamamoto [12:10] <Vraieesprit> and Tadaoki Sasakibe [12:11] <Vraieesprit> but folk will be confused [12:11] <Vraieesprit> esp with Yachiru Unohana [12:11] <Salubri> Yea thats why i say leave them [12:11] <Godismebot> Genryusai Shigekuni Yamamoto has been said several times in the series by several characters, so that is his refer to name [12:11] <Godismebot> Chojiro has always been called Choiro Sasakibe [12:11] <Vraieesprit> i think there's a big risk of a lot more of this happening... [12:11] <Vraieesprit> i think kubo's on a streak [12:11] <Salubri> that hasnt changed we just through in a "middle name" per se [12:12] <Vraieesprit> i know you said you didn't want byakuya son of soujun etc, salubri, but i wouldn't rule it out [12:12] <Godismebot> I can handle all the moves again with my bot but I believe it would be best to have his article name as Choiro Sasakibe and into paragraph has Tadaoki [12:12] <Salubri> he's noble so im not surprised if it did happen [12:12] <Godismebot> Then we dont move Shunsui or Unohana and just change the intro paragraphs [12:12] <Salubri> Marechiyo Yoshiayamenosuke Nikkōtarōemon Ōmaeda this is at the top of his page i think thats fine [12:12] <Godismebot> I think that is the best solution for consistancy sake [12:13] <Vraieesprit> you're getting the hang of this :P it doesn't help that japanese people tend to change their names a lot. [12:13] <SunXia> like Matsudaira?? [12:13] <Godismebot> So right now I only see one article that does not conform with the rest, and that is Chojiro, if we move that back to Chojiro Sasakibe, all articles will be uniform [12:13] <Vraieesprit> sigh [12:14] <Vraieesprit> i fought very hard to get tadaoki on that article :P [12:14] <Godismebot> But its not his refer to name [12:14] <Vraieesprit> its his real name... [12:14] <Vraieesprit> but i see your point [12:14] <Godismebot> It may be his full name, but people ddont refer to him as that [12:14] <Vraieesprit> just there's that risk of refer to names becoming...erm... [12:14] <Salubri> we might as well leave it no one knows the difference really [12:14] <Vraieesprit> subjective [12:14] <Godismebot> I prefer uniformity [12:15] <Salubri> what are we doing about unohana [12:15] <Godismebot> The only hassle the move would cause is on me [12:15] <Godismebot> Leave the article as Retsu Unohana, intro says Retsu Yachiru Unohana [12:15] <Salubri> wait i missed it, is retsu a name or title [12:15] <Vraieesprit> I dunno if this makes it simpler, could you put Retsu Unohana (formerly known as Yachiru Unohana, the First Kenpachi) ... [12:15] <SunXia> I'd rather have Retsu Yachiru Unohana [12:16] <Vraieesprit> that way you don't have to worry about which name means more. One is the name she used before, one is the one she uses now. [12:16] <Vraieesprit> in the opening paragraph i mean [12:16] <SunXia> well the First Kenpachi side of her is clearly coming out [12:16] <Vraieesprit> Retsu's a name, but its a different name from Yachiru [12:16] <Vraieesprit> so she changed it [12:16] <Godismebot> Its possible Vraie, but is Retsu more of a title or a nickname? [12:16] <Vraieesprit> ^^ [12:17] <Vraieesprit> I think its different from yama and sasakibe [12:17] <Vraieesprit> i think she physically changed her name from Yachiru to Retsu at some point [12:17] <Salubri> the problem is we dont really know the story behind her name change, what she explains it then what [12:17] <Vraieesprit> yeah [12:17] <Godismebot> So more so a new name than a title or anyting [12:17] <Vraieesprit> thats why i suggested putting unohana retsu, formerly unohana yachiru [12:17] <Vraieesprit> because it is all we know right now [12:17] <Godismebot> I think that could work [12:17] <Salubri> yea me too [12:17] <Vraieesprit> oh sorry, [12:17] <Vraieesprit> i meant [12:17] <Vraieesprit> retsu unohana [12:17] <Vraieesprit> &gt;.&gt; can't do western order [12:17] <Godismebot> Its fine, we get what you mean [12:18] <Vraieesprit> im trying to think how that could work with shunsui too [12:18] <Vraieesprit> but i don't think it can [12:18] <Vraieesprit> stupid samurai names [12:18] <SunXia> well i dont want it changed until we get something with unohana [12:18] <Salubri> So long form names go on top, explanation of names goes in trivia [12:18] <SunXia> sure [12:19] <Vraieesprit> is there anything i can do to be of help, after creating complete chaos here with shunsui? [12:19] <Vraieesprit> i do actually WANT to help, believe it or not :p [12:19] <Godismebot> Nah, I think we have this, most of the pages are locked anyway [12:19] <Godismebot> and unless you are good with bots, leave the mass edits to me [12:19] <Salubri> Vraie i guess you are on explanations. Just something simple like what they mean. Like state (first name), (surname) and what any additional names mean. [12:20] <Vraieesprit> For which characters? I can do it in MS word and post it on your or GOdisme 's page if you wanted me to [12:20] <SunXia> ugh i wana delete robo images [12:20] <Salubri> umm yamamoto, chojiro and shunsui for right now [12:20] <Godismebot> Id say get the explanations for Yama, Shunsui, Chojiro and Unohana [12:20] <Vraieesprit> aye aye cap'n [12:20] <SunXia> ^ [12:21] <Salubri> does unohana need one its a name change [12:21] <Godismebot> I think an explanation that it is a new name rather than a title would be nice [12:22] <Salubri> ok so Vraie do that and leave it on my talk page and ill look it over, remember it doesnt have to be long just a general explanation [12:22] <Vraieesprit> i shall do my best to be concise and comprehensible [12:22] <Vraieesprit> ...and western name order &gt;.&gt; [12:22] <KuroAshi98> Huh... still no new FT. [12:22] <Salubri> yes please [12:22] <Godismebot> Kuro, its on break this week [12:23] <Salubri> sucks^ [12:23] <Salubri> just when it gets good [12:24] <Godismebot> Yeah [12:24] <Salubri> Vraie a side note ive seen Shutara as a first name is that right [12:24] <SunXia> YES just got confirmation i can take little ones to cinema tomorrow, it will be tough to pry them from me, kids are sooo precious [12:24] <KuroAshi98> It is? D: [12:24] <KuroAshi98> Bollocks. [12:24] <Godismebot> http://i.imgur.com/d9h30.png Kuro, look what Jakuho said [12:24] <KuroAshi98> Haha nice :P [12:24] <Salubri> Wow sun is gonna eat some kids [12:25] <Salubri> good for you sun [12:25] <SunXia> lol [12:25] <SunXia> it would be so easy, i love babies and toddlers, when they hugh you everything about them feels new [12:27] <Salubri> then u eat them [12:27] <Salubri> like a prey mantis except you eat kids [12:27] <Salubri> so more like a demon or witch [12:27] <Godismebot> No, like a devil [12:28] <Godismebot> cause her name is Devilwoman [12:28] <Salubri> so does eating children for their innocence taste good [12:28] <Salubri> i bet it tastes like chicken, everything tastes like chicken [12:29] <Salubri> more things need to taste like bacon, ummm bacon [12:29] <Godismebot> Sal, can you move Chojiro, since you can rename his talk page in one go as well [12:29] <SunXia> oh i love blowing and sucking on their skin, they love it at play time, the giggles they get so tickled [12:29] <Godismebot> *image gallery [12:29] <Vraieesprit> ...now you're eating children &gt;&lt; [12:29] <Godismebot> not talk page [12:29] <Vraieesprit> first aizen killing people, now children snacking [12:30] <Salubri> sun likes to eat children go figure [12:30] <SunXia> yay looks like brian that whinge bucket gave up [12:30] <Salubri> Vraie you see my question [12:30] <KuroAshi98> Brb shower time~ :3 [12:31] <Salubri> god am i renaming the talk page and subpages too [12:31] <Vraieesprit> i...have just posted on your page and i am about to...go read my email... [12:31] <Godismebot> Yes [12:31] <Godismebot> Vraie, did you see Sal's question about Senjumaru? [12:32] <Vraieesprit> no, i saw a question about eating children [12:32] <Vraieesprit> o.o [12:32] <Godismebot> Is Senjumaru the first name or is it Shutara [12:32] <Godismebot> Cause I have seen it both ways [12:32] <Vraieesprit> senjumaru is the first name, shutara is the surname...i am pretty sure BUT [12:32] <Vraieesprit> i will go check [12:32] <Vraieesprit> with the raw [12:34] <Salubri> thats pretty good you forgot to mention which is the first name on chojiro but thats a easy add in [12:35] <Salubri> Souzousa means "Assistant who conceals all" or "assistant who possesses all." - I wonder what this is supposed to mean [12:35] <Vraieesprit> well. [12:35] <Vraieesprit> kubo is using too much reijutsu [12:35] <Vraieesprit> ^^ my opinion [12:35] <Vraieesprit> although... [12:36] <Vraieesprit> 8ths flower has some meaning like "to hold all in these hands" or something [12:36] <Vraieesprit> but honestly, i don't know. Ask Adam if he has any better ideas, because it still makes me go O.o [12:37] <Godismebot> Yay, bot is up and running and I super checked it so Yyp can't yell at me for making a mistake [12:37] <Godismebot> Hi Vraieesprit, welcome to the Bleach Wiki Chat! Please remember to follow our Bleach Wiki:Chat Policy when you are here. Also note that you need ten productive edits to articles to be in here otherwise you will be asked to leave. [12:38] <Vraieesprit> do you know which chapter shutara's name is in? [12:39] <Salubri> You know interesting point there was 5 (currently 4) major noble families in bleach and in real life there was 5 major noble families in japan [12:39] <Godismebot> http://godisme.sexyi.am I think I have the raw for it up there [12:39] <Vraieesprit> oh i have it. Shutara Senjumaru [12:39] <Vraieesprit> ok [12:39] <Vraieesprit> first name in western order is senjumaru [12:39] <Vraieesprit> second is shutara [12:40] <Vraieesprit> i have so many issues with this character, seriously. [12:40] <Salubri> cool [12:40] <Godismebot> Such as the maru in the name? [12:40] <Vraieesprit> yessss [12:40] <Godismebot> I know a lot of people were complaining about that [12:40] <Vraieesprit> and the very female pronouns [12:40] <Godismebot> Maybe its take 2 on the genderless character? [12:40] <Vraieesprit> Kubo has a fixation with that too lately [12:41] <Vraieesprit> new names and no gender [12:41] <Salubri> very american [12:41] <Godismebot> I still have my money down on As being a male [12:41] <Salubri> or hermaphrodite [12:54] <Godismebot> I don't think she would be 12th division. As much sense as that would make, it means two royal guard members were 12th division [12:54] <Vraieesprit> Well, we know they know each other somehow. [12:54] <Godismebot> We'll have to see [12:54] <Godismebot> hopefully Kubo will give backstory on the royal guard [12:54] <Vraieesprit> we don't know anything else ... [12:55] <Vraieesprit> but I suspect we'll get something on that later on [12:55] <Vraieesprit> anything else would be speculation. Just that her name is mentioned. [12:56] <Godismebot> Ill add it to her trivia [12:57] <Vraieesprit> =) [01:00] <Godismebot> Well, I must go eat now. Ill be back in a few [01:10] <Jushiro971> that was fast [01:11] <Salubri> here's a question whose gonna be 8th division captain now [01:13] <Godismebot> Love [01:13] <Jushiro971> eh [01:13] <Godismebot> He is the most logical choice [01:15] <Salubri> ok then where the hell is Love and the rest of the Visoreds [01:15] <Godismebot> Chillin in Karakura town [01:18] <Salubri> are they? [01:18] <Jushiro971> maybe [01:18] <Godismebot> Probs [01:18] <Godismebot> Aka Kubo forgot about them [01:19] <Godismebot> again [01:21] <Jushiro971> old well [01:22] <Salubri> chapter 481 page 1-2 there is something odd [01:23] <Godismebot> The tearings? [01:23] <Godismebot> I was just talking about this with Mohrph yesterday [01:23] <Godismebot> They technically fixed the problem, but now its just going to start all up again now that the Vandenreich are not invading Soul Society [01:25] <Salubri> huh [01:26] <Salubri> oh yea, so thats what it was [01:26] <Godismebot> Because of the imbalance, the world was tearing itself apart [01:26] <Godismebot> Thats why Mayuri killed all those people [01:28] <Salubri> right right [01:29] <Salubri> YES YES YES, BASK IN THE GREATNESS THAT IS MY CODING ABILITY, GAZE UPON THE NEWNESS OF THE Gotei 13 PAGE. [01:30] <Godismebot> Oh damn, alright I was going to pick on you a bit but that is actually pretty god [01:30] <Godismebot> *good [01:32] <Salubri> yea took some figuring out but i made it work all with 2 half hours [01:32] <Salubri> *within 2 1/2 hours [01:33] <Godismebot> Maybe now the idiot will shut up and go away forever [01:34] <Salubri> If love takes 8th Division then whose gonna be his lieutenant? Mashiro, Hiyori Lisa and Hachi have already been left behind but something tells me they arent simply that level anymore but regardless Lisa was the lt of the 8th division previously anyhow [01:34] <Godismebot> Who knows, maybe Tatsufasa is promoted? [01:36] <SunXia> WAIT has this given them the excise to promote Love to Capt status again?? [01:36] <SunXia> sorry was looking at Sals thing and VACANT flashedo ut at me [01:36] <SunXia> *flashed out [01:37] <Godismebot> Love would make the most sense [01:37] <Godismebot> He was a former captain and all the other visored captains are captains again [01:38] <Salubri> true but what to do with those left oh wait there is probably plenty of vacacies now that so many are dead [01:38] <Godismebot> Yep [01:38] <Godismebot> And we still dont know if Kira is dead or not [01:39] <Salubri> i find it hard to believe that in 100 yrs none of them said humm lets learn bankai, nope we are gonna instead take all this time to learn how to keep a hollow mask on for 3 minutes (sans Mashiro) [01:40] <Salubri> seems like an incredible waste of time [01:40] <Godismebot> Controlling their Hollow was probably the most important step, so they could not be taken over [01:40] <Godismebot> Its possible they have learned Bankai, its not implausible [01:40] <Salubri> takes 100 yrs to do that when ichigo had a day or two [01:41] <Godismebot> They didn't have anyone teaching them how to do it [01:41] <Godismebot> They had to figure it all out for themselves [01:41] <SunXia> why wouldnt the other bankai capts help [01:41] <Salubri> a decade or two yea but a century idk that seems kinda dumb [01:43] <Godismebot> Then there is the whole Bankai is supposedly rare [01:43] <Salubri> The biggest plot hole that gets on my nerves is everyone was supposedly giving their all to stop Aizen and only the usual suspects pulled out the bankai, and nobody was supposed to find that weird [01:43] <Godismebot> even though everyone and their grandma seems to have it these days [01:43] <Godismebot> Yeah, well, Kubo hates revealing Bankais [01:44] <Salubri> Yamamoto gave up a damn arm instead of using his bankai [01:44] <Godismebot> Shunsui"Ban.." Ukitake: "No, you are revealing it too soon. Make people wait for a few hundred more chapters." [01:45] <Salubri> matter of fact had he used bankai right then and there he would have killed Aizen, as he didnt fully meld with the hogyoku at that point. Wow i guess nobody was supposed to figure that one out [01:46] <Godismebot> Blame Kubo [01:46] <Salubri> oh i will [01:46] <SunXia> lol true [01:46] <Godismebot> You should write him a sternly worded letter [01:46] <SunXia> but he was going to kill aizen and everyone [01:46] <Salubri> I need to translate it inot japanese first [01:47] <Godismebot> Ask Adam, Im sure he'll help [01:47] <Salubri> oh damn i forgot about wonderweiss, yea nvm [01:48] <Salubri> ok kubo played that one perfectly, though it was still super lame [01:48] <SunXia> i dont think WW would have been able to go toe to toe with bankai [01:48] <SunXia> well Yama-bankai [01:48] <Godismebot> Still, Shunsui, Ukitake, Unohana y u no Bankai? [01:48] <Salubri> no but he sucked up the flames [01:48] <Salubri> so zanpakuto was not a option at that point [01:49] <SunXia> WW the worst created character [01:49] <Salubri> Yamamoto has purposefully kept Unohana out of fighting, by either sending her elsewhere (hueco mundo) or telling her to stay at her Hq (vandenreich invasion) i find this odd [01:50] <Godismebot> Because he didnt want to show her Kenpachi skills [01:50] <Salubri> obviously [01:50] <Salubri> is she really that dangerous, she must be the trump card [01:50] <Salubri> something is really scary about this [01:50] <Godismebot> As powerful as all fans thought Zaraki was, I bet Unohana is 10x that [01:51] <Godismebot> She is the strongest captain now [01:52] <Salubri> yea but then again why make shunsui captain-commander and not her, something is not right, mark my words [01:53] <Godismebot> I think it is honestly just that 1. Shunsui is more of a leader and 2. Yamamoto thought of him as a son. [01:54] <Salubri> he thought of Ukitake as one too so that doesnt seem to be it [01:54] <Salubri> then all the sudden Shunsui is leader material out of nowhere (this arc) [01:54] <Godismebot> I think he has always had it in him [01:55] <Godismebot> He has just never needed to show that side of himself before [01:55] <Godismebot> and Shunsui and Yama seemed closer than Ukitake and Yama [01:55] <Godismebot> Shunsui grew up around Yama [01:55] <Godismebot> and then the whole Ukitake being very sickly thing [01:56] <Salubri> i think in battle unohana is gonna be far worse then zaraki, now thats something to see [01:56] <Godismebot> Definitely [01:56] <SunXia> she has to be [01:56] <Salubri> maybe thats why she doesnt fight, berserker rage [01:57] <Godismebot> Her name means, violent or fierce [01:57] <Godismebot> So she is obviously ridiculous in battle [01:57] <Salubri> Interesting point though, if Kirinji taught her healing that must mean he is pretty damn old himself [01:58] <Godismebot> We know he was captain over 200 years ago [01:58] <Salubri> we need a TBTP mini arc right now. Hell we need a few of those [01:59] <Godismebot> 110 years ago is the earliest point at which we know that Unohana was 4th division [01:59] <SunXia> oh yeah [01:59] <Salubri> thats not helpful cause so was she [01:59] <SunXia> theyve given hitsugaya one we need more [01:59] <Godismebot> I would love if Kubo decided to stop this arc in place and just do a series of flashback mini arcs [01:59] <Salubri> yes hell yes [01:59] <SunXia> wouldnt bother me in the slightest [02:00] <Godismebot> I loved TbTP, I loved Kakashi Gaiden, I am a big fan of backstory [02:00] <SunXia> theyd be better than emo tobi [02:00] <Salubri> i told you all at this point all i care about is zanpakuto, and backstory, i could care less about anything else [02:01] <Godismebot> I hate how Kubo teased us with Kugo [02:01] <SunXia> lets see we need unohana, isshin, why yoruichi is a cat [02:01] <Salubri> I hate how this asshats are still alive [02:01] <SunXia> zanpakuto arc was awful those characters..... [02:01] <Godismebot> Kugo could have been redeemed and given a reason why he was so hateful [02:01] <Salubri> huge ass plot hole [02:01] <Godismebot> instead we got a page showing him finding Tsukishima [02:02] <Salubri> his whole reason for his actions was so stupid [02:02] <SunXia> yeah a single page.... [02:02] <Salubri> like really nothing with some actual weight to it [02:02] <SunXia> "i did it because they spied on me" oooooooh [02:02] <Godismebot> We dont know the reason behind his actions. He said it was the badge but it was obviously more than that [02:02] <SunXia> theyre the ss they look at everything [02:02] <Salubri> you were watching my like big brother so im gonna do all this, so lame [02:03] <Godismebot> If Kubo had actually given us backstory, we could see how he got Shinigami powers, what made him turn evil etc [02:03] <Godismebot> Because good guy Kugo was a good character. Bad guy Kugo was a crap character [02:03] <SunXia> i like to think he stole the powers [02:04] <SunXia> so much crappy rapey face with kugo [02:04] <Salubri> either way he had no justification for doing that regardless if that was the real reason or not, hence why no redemption. He would have been a better character if kubo stopped trying to make twists like M. Knight Shamalyn's dumb ass and just left kubo as he was when he was cool with ichigo [02:04] <Godismebot> Yep [02:05] <Godismebot> I think the arc would have been so much better if Tsukishima was the true bad guy and Kugo had to fight against his brainwashed friends [02:05] <Salubri> plus the entire arc should have been mainly about chad anyway [02:05] <SunXia> ^ [02:05] <SunXia> like this one is about Uryu.....HOW [02:06] <Salubri> good question [02:06] <Godismebot> How was the Arrancar arc about Orihime? [02:06] <Godismebot> The only character development we got from her in the arc was her admitting she is in love with Ichigo [02:06] <SunXia> yeah isnt she a fullbringer???? lmao [02:06] <Godismebot> ugh [02:06] <Godismebot> Why can people not accept she is not a fullbringe [02:07] <Salubri> also making kugo the first substitute shingami had no purpose to it, like who cares, what does that do to the story but make a pointless revelation, just make him a regular fullbringer and call it a day, it didnt even have to go down that road. [02:07] <Godismebot> "She used bringer light" No, she used her abilities, which have always glowed [02:07] <Godismebot> It gave the arc its title though [02:07] <Salubri> lol [02:07] <Salubri> well thats a reason [02:07] <Godismebot> Kugo was The Lost Substitute Shinigami [02:08] <Salubri> or that could have been ichigo [02:08] <Salubri> see what i did there [02:08] <SunXia> lol [02:08] <Salubri> you could make a case for it [02:08] <Godismebot> Or it could have been Isshin before Kubo decided to confirm that Isshin was 100% soul [02:07] <Salubri> lol [02:07] <Salubri> well thats a reason [02:07] <Godismebot> Kugo was The Lost Substitute Shinigami [02:08] <Salubri> or that could have been ichigo [02:08] <Salubri> see what i did there [02:08] <SunXia> lol [02:08] <Salubri> you could make a case for it [02:08] <Godismebot> Or it could have been Isshin before Kubo decided to confirm that Isshin was 100% soul [02:09] <Salubri> isshin's backstory is already written in from day one so im not surprised [02:10] <Salubri> i will fly to japan and punch kubo in the face if he makes misaki a quincy i dont wanna see ichigo learning archery next, this is already overkill, ichigo has had every power and race in the series besides a bount with a Doll [02:11] <SunXia> lol and that was filler so everything [02:11] <Godismebot> Ichigo is going to gain a doll and a bakkoto [02:12] <Godismebot> and then Zangetsu will be released from his sword and fight alongside Ichigo [02:13] <Godismebot> oh and a reigai of Ichigo will be made who also fights with him [02:13] <Salubri> yes and then he is gonna go sky surfing in his nirvash and take out his sword of omens to defeat juhabach and then he is gonna use a mixture of his earth, water, fire, air bending to end Aizen's existence for good [02:14] <Godismebot> Nope, Aizen is going to unleash the true form of Rave, Ravelt and kick Ichigos butt [02:15] <Godismebot> And Aizen will also become a contractor who's ability is to snuff people out of existance at the cost of having to lick his foot every time he uses his powers [02:16] <Salubri> then Aizen will fight God zilla and the Ichigo and his friends will become power rangers call on their zords and beat his ass, but then aizen will reveal his ultraman and fly off into space thee end [02:16] <Godismebot> lol [02:16] <Godismebot> Its perfect [02:17] <Salubri> yea and we will be left confused as hell and kubo will be left was alot of people suing him for copyright infringement [02:17] <Godismebot> Him and Mashima are already trading characters back and forth [02:18] <Salubri> it amazes me how nobody in manga/anime can look original [02:18] <Godismebot> Ichigo is working in Fairy Tail these days and Wakaba is working in Bleach [02:18] <Salubri> What magic would you have [02:19] <Godismebot> Mashima doesn't even try anymore. Almost all the characters in FT are based on Rave characters [02:19] <Salubri> im thinking Arc of Embodiment [02:19] <Salubri> for myself [02:19] <Godismebot> Either Heavenly Body magic or Juvia's water magic [02:20] <Salubri> hummm [02:20] <Godismebot> Heavenly Body magic is probably the strongest magic we have seen so far [02:21] <Salubri> u think do [02:21] <Salubri> so [02:21] <Godismebot> Well, he was about to take down Jura [02:21] <Godismebot> and Jellal's thought projection was one of the ten wizard saints [02:22] <Godismebot> So I have to imagine heavenly body magic is insanely powerful [02:23] <Salubri> Yea but the problem here is their rating system doesnt account for alot of things. Like Jura and Jellel are up there as Makarov but there are obviously people that should be up there that aren't [02:23] <Godismebot> Erza is probably close to that level [02:23] <Salubri> i mean they arent being counted in that category [02:24] <Salubri> yea thats a safe bet, she beat all those monsters one that they said a wizard saint would be hard pressed to beat [02:24] <Godismebot> plus when she almost died, she was posthumously declared one [02:25] <Jushiro971> He's back [02:25] <Godismebot> I saw [02:25] <Salubri> Natsu i would say yes to as well, but i dont know, his power obviously has limitations on power level yet he always comes out on top [02:26] <Godismebot> Natsu is an odd one. On his own, I would not say so but if he were to master that Lightning Flame Dragon magic, he could easily be up there [02:28] <Salubri> Dragon slayer magic is a particular kind of magic [02:29] <Godismebot> His own Fire dragon slayer magic is strong, but I dont think it is strong enough that he would be considered a wizard saint level. However, his lightning flame dragon slayer magic has proven to be unbelievably powerful [02:30] <Salubri> Its made to specifically to kill dragons the fact that it works against others is because its destructive nature so anything of the level of below a dragon (which is exceedingly powerful creatures in their world) is gonna get the bad end of the situation [02:31] <Salubri> if nothing else he has proven 1st generation dragon slayers are more powerful but not by brute power alone [02:31] <Godismebot> Pretty much, but the other dragon slayers we have seen are not always the strongest. Wendy is pretty weak at this point. Gajeel is strong but not near Natsu's level imo, Cobra was weak, Laxus rarely uses his dragon slaying magic and Sting and Rogue are powerful but they got owned by Natsu 2 on 1 [02:32] <Salubri> Now apparently its Gajeels turn to do 2 on 1 [02:32] <Salubri> lets see what he does [02:33] <Salubri> Wendy is more supportive with some offensive capability. Im guessing though she is capable of similar feats as natsu and gajeel but she hasnt showcased it [02:33] <Salubri> maybe due to youth and inexperience [02:33] <Godismebot> Likely so [02:35] <Godismebot> Id like to see what Mira can do at full power [02:36] <Salubri> idk that maybe overkill [02:37] <Godismebot> The form she used against Jenny is supposedly her strongest [02:37] <Godismebot> I want to see what it can do [02:38] <Salubri> they always say thats her strongest form and then ive heard 2 different armors of erza's called that too. so ill wait they both seem to have multiples in their respective magics so thats a to be determined issue [02:39] <Godismebot> Yeah, Erza has a new strongest armor every fight [02:39] <Godismebot> From what has been seen though, Heaven's wheel armor seems to be her strongest [02:42] <Salubri> Armadura Fairy &amp; Purgatory armor were both called the strongest [02:43] <Godismebot> Neither of which we have actually seen in use [02:44] <Salubri> exactly least she has options [02:46] <Godismebot> Mashima really needs to do something with Juvia [02:47] <Godismebot> She hasn't been in a serious fight since Tower of Heaven arc