Talk:Chain of Fate

Hollow Power
Where is it ever stated that the hollow powers ichigo has are gained from his training to regain his shinigami powers, in which he almost becomes a hollow? As far as im aware he could have always had hollow powers that were for a time hidden. GinIchimaru 12:40, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

It was made clear that the only power he had hidden was his shinigami powers. He nearly became a hollow, a potential all Plus have even if they don't have the potential to become shinigami, and that is the origin of his hollow powers. Anything else is speculation. Tinni  (Talk)  13:08, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Where was it made clear? ive never seen it written anywhere that ichigo gained hollow powers from this experience.GinIchimaru 13:33, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what you want me to tell you. The chapters 060 through to 064 make it crystal clear that is how Ichigo gained his hollow powers. I myself wrote the summaries for those chapters for the wiki within the last few months so I assure you the information you are seeking is in those chapters. Lesson two involved his chain of fate being severed. He was then placed down the shattered shaft which accelerated the process of encroachment. Urahara Kisuke then explains to Ichigo that once the process of enrouchment is complete he will become a hollow. Subsequently the process of enrouchment is completed and a hollow hole starts to form on Ichigo's chest but he gains a mask first while his body remains human. Urahara explains this means Ichigo is fighting the hollowfication process. In the meantime in Ichigo's inner world Zengetsu explains that Ichigo has always had shinigami powers and they were hidden deep in his soul and the only time he can find it is when the inner world is collapsing but if the inner world finishes collapsing Ichigo will become a hollow and be killed as such. Ichigo manages to find his shinigami powers but by then most of his inner world had collapsed. He emerges from the shattered shaft wearing a mask and black kimono of a shinigami, i.e. he emerges from the shaft a vizard. Thus Ichigo gains both his shinigami powers and his hollow powers from his time in the shattered shaft. I am not entirely sure how much clearer the entire thing can be. Tinni  (Talk)  14:26, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Its not made crystal clear at all. I agree there is a high possibility he got his powers that way, but the fact is that tite kubo has never definiatively stated that is how ichigo got his powers, and as such this page shouldnt be saying it is a fact that is how he got his powers. Right now it is only speculation as to how he gained these powers. I will continue to believe this until you link me to somewhere where it is stated for a fact that is how ichigo got his hollow powers. GinIchimaru 14:39, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

It is not speculation. It is quite clear how Ichigo got his power. Do not alter this page. Any alterations will be reverted on sight. I am sorry you need "additional" confirmation but the rest of us are quite convinced with the information given. Tinni  (Talk)  15:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

well this wiki is meant to be about fact and not speculation (no matter how fine with it you are) it has never been stated anywhere that this is definately how ichigo has hollow powers, couldve had them from birth and your previous statement just shows you to be an irrepressible fool GinIchimaru 10:38, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

What you are suggesting is an impossibility given the manga as presented. Therefore, the accepted version of events that is backed by manga events stays. If you wish to enter into wild theories then please take it to the forums. There is nothing to discuss here. The manga explains the origins of Ichigo's hollow powers quite clearly. Tinni  (Talk)  14:12, January 1, 2010 (UTC) I apologize for intruding on your conversation or debate but it would be best to say that it's common sense seeing as how it's impossible to be born with hollow powers when one parent was/is a shinigami and the other is most likely human as well as the fact that ichigo resisted becoming a hollow and instead went another way but you couldn't possibly believe that there wouldn't be something strange about him coming out as a shinigami with a hollow mask it was clearly foreshadowing.-- SalmanH  (Talk)  14:29, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Stating that Ichigo gained his Hollow side anywhere other than in the Shattered Shaft is pure speculation. So the choice is solely between keeping it the way it is or dropping any mention of his Hollow side from the article. We know of several ways to become a Hollow/gain Hollow powers: the Hōgyoku, Aizen's experiments in TBtP and the completion of the corrosion of the chain of fate. It is pretty clear that the third option occurred in Ichigo's case, complete with characters saying that he turned into a Hollow, but is resisting. That is not specualtion, and therefore should be allowed to stay. Sure Kubo might say otherwise down the line, but as things are currently presented in the story, that is where he got his Hollow from. But right now, that is what the story states. -- Yyp  (Talk)  14:41, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Ive been a fool, all i can do is apologise. GinIchimaru 15:26, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

It happens.-- SalmanH  (Talk)  16:33, January 1, 2010 (UTC)