Forum:Ulquiorra Cifer

This forum is for discussing anything relating to the 4th Espada, Ulquorra Cifer. There are already a number of existing topics, but feel free to add new ones if what you want to discuss is not related to the existing posts. Do not create new topics about Ulquiorra outside of this page. Twocents 20:54, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Existing Ulquiorra Topics
All of these are open and available for continued discussion. Twocents 20:55, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

How Strong is Ulquiorra?
I have a theory that Ulquiorra is stronger than everybody speculates. Every article i've read says that only the top 4 espada are forbidden from releasing their zanpakuto inside menos noches, but this is incorrect. In every scan i've read of bleach 345, Ulquiorra clearly states that any espada OVER Cuatro(4) is forbidden from unleashing inside the dome. If so, why would he break through the dome to release? If only espada over Cuatro, which is his rank, are allowed to release outside the dome, he should be allowed to release inside the dome of menos noches, right?

This can only mean one thing, Ulqiorra is stronger than his given rank. He is as strong as at least Halibel,the third espada, maybe even stronger. Its possible than he may even be the strongest espada(based on what he was able to do to ichigo in one blow after releasing his zanpakuto). Well thats my theory anyway.

Im not sure exactly what your askin. What was stated was no espada from 4 and up is allowed to release their zanpakuto or use gran ray cero within las nochas by order of aizen. He never said he wasnt included in the line up, the place is called los nochas and in this particular chapter he calls in menos nochas i think its a miss interpretation at best he clearly stated last chapter he was included now he says above. Still questionable but as far as him being all the powerful is reaching he is 4 if he was higher he would be 1 theres no need to maintain a lower position when u can have a higher. He is strong but ichigo by no means can defeat stark. he barely beat grimmjaw and nonarita almost killed him. now ichigo is more powerful but enough at best to overcome ulquiorra. who i agree is powerful with alot of skill but i havent personally seen him do anything which would make me think hes more powerful then what he is. Fighting or beating up ichigo doesnt count cause ichigo is not even close to what he can potentially do. Salubri 22:01, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Right. Dont get me wrong, but ill argue this point with you when you take a lesson in grammar and proper sentence structure. :D

Also, for your statement about beating Ichigo is nothing, look at it this way. Luppi raped Toshiro using his bankai. Grimmjow killed Luppi in about 5 seconds after gaining his arm back. Ichigo beat Grimmjow, and Toshiro is, I'd say, pretty close to ichigo in terms of strength. So to say that Ulquiorra isn't as strong as the top three Espada might be a little speculative. Also, the top 4 espada being forbidden from using ressurecion isnt what Ulquiorra said. He said anybody OVER THE FOURTH ESPADA IS FORBIDDEN. Which means he is srtonger than what his tatoo says. Personally, I would love to see part of his tatoo to rub away to reveal that he is really the Primera(1) Espada.


 * Also he's the only one with a second release. That has to count for something. Personally I want -1 to appear, because yammy is just pathetic. --(QQ)∞wertyasdf 14:32, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

I agree that Ulquiorra is the Top Espada. I think the numbers thing is an Aizen ploy to toy with his own Espada and cause some inner turmoil and misdirection. Ulquiorra and Yammy were the first Espada introduced to us and Ironically they are the top strongest ones in the end. I don't think that was a coincidence. I think Aizen (in Kubo's Mind) is fully aware of Ulquiorra's full strength and second form. Why wouldn't he be? He obviously is aware of everything that happens. Therefore I think that Yammy is the strongest brute strength wise but needs too much time to power up, thus the 10-0 ranking. Why Ulquiorra had the number 4 rank puzzles me but in watching the manga it's clear that Aizen has always favored him and been his right hand man outside of Tousen and Gin. He sent them to earth in case Ichigo was too powerful and left them both behind to deal with Ichigo once he was trapped. I don't think that's coincidence. I feel that Aizen didn't take his top two Espada to the FTK fight because his main concern is Ichigo who was in Hueco Muendo. I also think that when Ichigo gets back to FTK, Aizen isn't going to be surprised at all to see him.... He's a tricky SOB. Hollowmajinbuu1 20:14, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

@ Qwertyasdf, dude I know u think that Ulquiorra should be the Cero Espada(I feel the same). Still, i'm not going to just sit here & let u downplay him. U'or argument is completely ludicrous & backwards u keep pointing out that Espada above the 4th ranking are forbidden to release their swords. Why? U are basically saying that Ulquiorra is weak enough to release his Zanpakuto in Hueco Mundo. His tattoo won't & didn't change. He is/was the Cuarto/Fourth/Yon Espada, whatever language u want to type it in. Minato88 22:19, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Salubri on the misinterpretation, cause Ulquiorra was never planning on using his second resureccion until Ichigo pissed him off. Plus they called it Menos Noches a,d It's Las Noches and they kept the japanese version of his release. Remeber, scans aren't perfect, because generally they are left up to the way a person translates Japanese. Example: Throughout an arc in reborn, they kept calling a dude a girl til he showed that he was a dude by transforming.--Moe1216 20:08, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, in defence of Hitsugaya, getting caught off guard by Luppi's multiple arms does not > getting raped. It is Hitsugaya who pwned Luppi with his 1000 year ice prison. Luppi had even dropped out of resurrection, which happens when you are near death. Now on to Ulquoirra. As I have stated in the past, Ulquoirra's big claim to fame was his high speed regeneration. Which is a cool skill and all but completely defensive. As such it is highly doubtful that his is stronger then no. 4. His second stage does throw people off but do we even know how much stronger it makes him? Bankai is suppose to make you 5 to 10 times stronger. People like Renji and Ikkaku probably only get a x5 boost from their bankai, while the top captains get the full x10 boost. But we have no comparable information on the second stage. People assume it's like bankai. But that's just wild speculation and an attempt to classify and compare that doesn't really work. We don't know how much his second stage improved him.
 * In addition, another reason people think Ulquoirra is strong is because they believe Ichigo is stronger then Hitsugaya and as Hitsugaya in bankai comfortably matched Harribel and even managed to imprison her in the ice obelisk Harribel must be weaker then Ulquoirra. This is not true. Hitsugaya has a stable power-level while Ichigo's fluctuates wildly. If those to ever met in battle, it could seriously go either way depending on what mood Ichigo is in.
 * Anyway, I don't think Ulquoirra is ranked incorrectly. People just got too excited over the whole second stage thing. I person began to loath it just because after it came out, everybody suddenly wanted to see Starrk's, Harribel's and even Barragan's second stage despite the fact Ulquoirra said he was the only one who could do. Oh the mental gymnastics that was happening around the second stage... "Ulquoirra could have lied", because he has been doing that a lot. "Other's could have achieved it and kept is a secret!", why? etc, etc.
 * Which brings me to my next point. Ulquoirra never once claimed that he was stronger then 4th. By the end he was trying to get Ichigo to feel despair and stop trying to fight him. Makes sense to taunt him by saying "I am actually the strongest espada". Ulquoirra didn't do that. Why not? Because Ulquoirra doesn't lie or make empty taunts and so he didn't do it. No point trying to thrust the title of the strongest on him when he himself doesn't want it. Tinni 23:35, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Tinni...that was awesome, dude.--Moe1216 05:18, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

'applauds'. But seriously, all that needs to be said is that Ulquiorra was the 4th. If he was stronger then the other espada he'd be the 1st or 2nd or 0th. People twisting the rankings system just to make their fav Espada the most powerful seems foolish to me, Grimmjow is my favourite and I've never had to do any of this mental gyrations, just because he's awesome doesn't make him more powerful then Nnoitra who annoys me. BollyW 11:00, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. I don't understand why some people try to twist words/events in the story to make their favourite character look better. I like Yammy, Grimmjow & Ulquiorra regardless of whether or not they're the most powerful or not. They're the most interesting of the Espada. That's far more important that being the strongest. And of course, the Hitsugaya hate. People really should leave their personal hatred of a character at the door when discussing a characters power/abilities. It seriously clouds some people's judgement. Underestimating him and failing to understand how well his abilities were suited to interfering with Harribel's attacks mean that she gets underestimated too. She clearly was a strong fighter, just not suited to fighting Hitsugaya. Finally, since Ulquiorra never mentioned being stronger than his no.4 rank suggests, then he likely is not. And I don't see anyone else wandering in and mentioning that he was actually the strongest either. --Yyp 11:41, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I personally prefer to belive Starrk is the strongest despite Yammy's supposed new rank. The dude made Kyoraku admit he was a tough opponent and even pushed him into a corner. That has to mean something.--Moe1216 13:48, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

How does Ulquiorra compare to the other Espada?
due to his second release is he stronger then Starrk, Barragan, and Harribel cause its a little confusingKensei24 23:22, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Since we have no way to directly compare, it's hard to say. We don't have any measure of pure strength alone, and plus, the strength of his abilities depend on how effectively he is able to use them. For example, some might argue that Harribel didn't effectively use her skills, so they may be able to say that in his second release, Ulquiorra was stronger. It just depends. Twocents 23:51, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. By his own admission Ulquoirra's "thing" was high speed regeneration. Just like Nnoitra's "thing" was a his Hierro. On the other hand the top three espadas' "thing" were various attack abilities. Harribel's was her water-based attacks, Barragan was his respira and Starrk his energy based attacks (since the wolves were a hybrid of cero and his own soul). So I don't think we can really say Ulquoirra was more powerful when his greatest ability is defensive not offensive. Plus you also have to look at their opponents. On top of everything Ichigo is unstable. To properly judge strength you would have had to get all the espada to fight against the same opponent, one with a stable power-level, not widely fluctuating like Ichigo. For all we know that's how they were ranked! Aizen got them to fight Gin or Tosen and timed how long it took the espada to do sufficient damage to their opponent and that's how he ranked them. Tinni 00:07, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

i believe and this is just speculation that each rank has a certain criteria like the 6th is a fight loving psycho(i love GJ), the 5th would be just plain power hungry, the 2nd is a raving lunatic, the 3rd is a compassionate female even the Privaron Espada the 103rd is a female(she may not be the former 3rd because she does not seem to compassionate), the 4th would be the most loyal, first strong but lonely, and so on and so fourthKensei24 00:37, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * No offence but that seems pretty far fetched and highly unlikely. I don't really think that's the kind of criteria Aizen would put together for his espada. I mean, why would he rank someone really powerful no. 6 just because of his personality or not give the position of an espada to someone very powerful just because he doesn't have the personality... that doesn't make sense. I know the aspect of death business does through a wrench in the ranking theories. But Barragan did say that the aspect of death was based on power and personality. Which doesn't really change. No reason to think that Nnoitra was a "glutton" when he was no. 9. I think he was always "despair" just that "despair" once used to be the aspect of death of espada no. 9. Similarly, Nel's aspect of death didn't have to sacrifice, although it is likely that it was, just because she was no. 3. I think people are giving too much importance on their personality. Only aspect of their personality that would have matter to Aizen is killing intent. Which notably Starrk didn't have a lot of. Just goes to show how powerful Starrk would have had to have been for Aizen make him an espada despite the fact he wasn't all that ruthless, certainly compared to the rest of the espada. Tinni 00:47, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

I'm of the personal opinion that Ulquiorra was just the fourth strongest. He said it himself "Even if you were to defeat me, there are still three Espada stronger than me." Why he would be lying I don't know, but he has never lied or given people a reason to doubt his words, so I am with the idea of the top three being the strongest.--Moe1216 01:08, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

but if aizen was "out of the loop" about his second release then why would he admit to "trash" like ichigo and yammy being 0 was probably a big secret so "even if you defeat me there are still 3 more espada stronger then i" would be a lie sorta i think so at leastKensei24 01:52, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Ulquoirra would have kept Aizen out of the loop about this second stage. He did say "Aizen hasn't SEEN my second stage" not "Aizen doesn't know about my second stage". It might just be that he got is recently and hadn't had time to show Aizen yet. Ulquoirra seemed pretty devoted to Aizen and Aizen was treating him as a deputy. Those two trusted each other as far as trust can exist between Aizen and anyone. I don't think Ulquoirra lied. I just think people got too excited over this second stage business. Tinni 02:00, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

How is ranking established? I've got no clue. Most likely, the higher ranked Espada were created by the Hyogoku as Zommari states that Aaroniero is the last of the original Espada. Higher ranking Espadas are Adjuchas or Vasto Lordes. We can speculate that 7th and 8th are Adjuchas because we know that Grimmjow is an Adjucha. But whether the other Espadas are Vasto Lordes, we don't know. However, we know that Baraggan and Starrk were personally invited to join his crew by Aizen. To continue from what Tinni was saying. I doubt that the aspects of death have anything to do with the rankings. I believe that they already had these qualities before they became Espadas. (As a side note, I really thought that Harribel would have had a kamikaze attack at the end, being the Espada of sacrifice). But that's just me rambling.--Shinitenshi 02:12, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

i don't get it! Why does their rank even matter, even of thm have their own bull **** power...      -Aaroniero Arruruerie-  if hehave live longer he could have reached beyond god-like if have have went around eating other's dead body,i think it was a waste he died so eaily. -Szayel Aporro Granz- the power the do Voodoo, and most of all reborn himself. no one could have take him on other than a science freak like Mayuri -Zommari Leroux- to take control of all, he pick the wrong captaint, who could do such a bankai. -Grimmjow Jaegerjaquez- can't say too much for him. -Nnoitra Jiruga- his iron skin, strong offence, godlike defend, it took a moster like Kenpachi to you two hands on him. -Ulquiorra Cifer- regen, if only he wasn't against the unstopable 2 nd form hollow ichigo. -Tia Harribel- power over water, i would say she didn't get to use her power at her full, she might be stronger with the battle field was a by a sea or lake. -Baraggan Luisenbarn- the over over time/age, i swear no one could've beat him, if it wasn't someone like Hachigen Ushōda. -Coyote Starrk- hellfireing cero,Wolves, he could fired his ceros from far and send his wolves out.but he didn't     -Yammy Rialgo-i don't see much in him other than being able to tank Ichigo's Tensa Zangetsu Getsuga Tenshō, powered by his new mask. i give him a bit a credit for that.

you amy not agree with me, alot of them took on someone that is counters their power, or fight at the wrong place. or died by fluke or careless. why does rank mater, the Alizen only used it to keep them in order. but the thing is most of them are all DEAD. so why does it matter?

sorry the thing on top is by me i forgot to name it again --Ace 09:41, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Why wasn't there any history about Ulquiorra?
He was one of the main characters of bleach.Unfortunately he is dead now.But who was he?What was his true goal?why did he join with aizen?where are the answers? please write anything you know about it.

He was emo. The end. --Ihaveaname 12:34, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

We don't know anything more than you do. I guess Tite doesn't always feel like providing background on characters. I wanted more info about Harribel, but he apparently decided to move past her. We also didn't find out anything, really, about Szayel (I consider the flashbacks to be more focused on Nnoitra, rather than a true account of Szayel's history), Aaroniero, or Zommari. Of the deceased/status unknown Espada, we only know some about four of them. And even that info's pretty limited. Twocents 12:46, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

I think with Ulquiorra his past wasn't very important. It was all about the present. I.e. what happened to him after he met Ichigo and Orihime, especially Orihime. We got to see a lot of what Ulquiorra was about, his personality, his thinking etc, through his conversation with Orihime. This is different from other Espada, even Grimmjow, who usually don't do much beyond fighting. As such we need to get a dedicated flashback from them. Starrk of course got two and he really needed it because his interaction with Kyoraku hinted that there was more to Starrk, that he was different and we needed to see his flashback to understand that. But hey! Yammy is still standing. If he get's a flashback, maybe that'll reveal a few things about Ulquiorra as the two of them seemed to be good friends. I mean, Yammy was visibly upset when Ulquiorra died. Honestly the look in Yammy's eyes when he realizes Ulquiorra was gone... I still vividly recall it. Kubo does a very good job with drawing eyes. Tinni 13:27, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I think Yammy is going to go after Ichigo with a vengeance. As far as the Espada go, it has kinda been a little disappointing. Grimmjow, Nnoitra, Starrk, & Barragan are the only ones we really know anything about. & of these 4 Grimmjow is the only one who has really been talked about. Personnally I would have liked to know more about Szayel, Hallibel, & Aaroneiro. In particular Starrks & Hallibels death were kinda sad & disappointing. Oh well, we will just have to wait & see what Kubo has planned for Yammy & Grimmjow in future episodes. Minato88 17:34, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

You know who didn't get any history or coverage? Zommari. You know who I'm glad didn't get any? Zommari. Although I wouldn't have minded some from Harribel and Ulquiorra. Nick4444 18:23, October 9, 2009 (UTC)