Talk:Kenpachi Zaraki

I don't believe he has a Shikai, that is it's unreleased state.--Spenuela 15:51, 15 January 2009 (UTC)SPenuela
 * = "I don't believe what Kubo say, he doesn't know anything about bleach anyway...", yes, it's Kubo that said that, in a charbook ;)
 * The sword is constantly released. He doesn't know the sword's name, but as per the manga, it's forced into it's release by Zaraki's massive spiritual power.Pixagi 20:48, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Shikai
Can anybody give an actual reference to Kubo saying this is his released state? I too have doubts that this is his shikai. And to be honest, it just doesn't make sense for Kenpachi to have released his Zanpakuto, without knowing its name. The Bleach world just doesn't work like that. Silavor 23:12, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Its the same concept as ichigo's zanpakuto being in shikai while not knowing its name or release initially. Zaraki and Ichigo have a constant-release zanpakuto as in there spiritual energy is so vast and they were never properly taught how to conceal it therefore it has had an effect on their zanpakuto causing it to automatically release to shikai without the name or release command. Even after ichigo learned zangetsu was the name of his zanpakuto he still doesnt have a release as it still doesnt seal therefore its always in shikai. The same goes for Zaraki.Salubri 02:01, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


 * But Ichigo's zanpakuto wasn't always in shikai form. Zangetsu was nothing more than a giant katana when Ichigo first became a shinigami. He only released it once he learned Zangetsu's name. Kenpachi, on the other hand, doesn't know his zanpakuto's name at all, so how could he have transformed it into its shikai state to begin with? Also, while it's not a definitive proof, Zaraki's sword doesn't look like a typical shikai at all. Most shikai have a white/black, yin/yang theme, and no matter what their shape or ability the majority of 'solid' shikai (as opposed to the disintegrating ones, like haineko or senbonzakura) will have definitive, coloured sections. Silavor

That is your interpretation but not fact. This has already been disguised at the top of the page. Also it is referenced on chapter 109, page 17 and Chapter 120, page 9.Salubri 03:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

height
I see a height problem here. The info box says 202 cm 6'6, while the artice says 202 6'7 1/2. What do you all say?

his official height is 6'6" according to the official character guide. Salubri 15:19, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Fixed it.Salubri 03:58, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Kenpaichi Number
Wait is Kenpaichi the 10th or 11th person to take the name of kenpaichi?Saimaroimaru 05:04, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

the 10th. Salubri 05:58, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Then he was captain during the pendulm arc. If hes the 10th then heres where Shinji talks about him.They say 10th Kenpaichi. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/315.01/10/Saimaroimaru 20:20, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Yea that point was argued but there are those that believe that even though the description given describes zaraki that they dont think its him. My main issue with that is he is the only captain we know that has defeated the previous captain in combat as per the rules of attaining the position and since thats the case it doesn't make sense to question whether its valid as there is no proof of anyone else with the same mannerisms and who achieved their status that way.Salubri 20:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

So other bielfs are over the manga? Sorry but I don't buy it, he was captain 100 years ago theres you stinking proof.Saimaroimaru 20:52, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

If you recall a certain flashback, Zaraki took his captaincy after Tōsen was a captain. Thus, no possibility of Zaraki being a captain until Tōsen got his promotion, which was not until after the events of the TBtP Arc. I can't remember where said flashback is, but I know it shows that Tōsen was a captain before Zaraki. One eye 21:02, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Well see this is were the issue comes up and i can tell you why its not credible for one the flash back was only in the anime because it took place during the bount saga which was straight filler. Also the TBTP took place after that had came out. Filler isn't considered canon to the plot line created by kubo, as the manga is primary source and it only takes place in the anime and is commonly outside of the normal storyline.Salubri 21:14, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

It was the Bount arc. Its a mistake by those who made the filler. Its a plothole. he was captain 100 years ago. I ask the article reflects that and disclaimer or something saids any events regards kenpaichi during that arc is filler and not true.Saimaroimaru 21:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, in regarding that page you showed us, that just describes Zaraki's personality traits. They really have no confirmation that it's Zaraki or not, only that "he's off doing what he wants" and he's "a loose cannon that became captain". That really says nothing as to whether this Kenpachi was Zaraki or not. I admit that it is possible that it is, but we can't go around saying "That's Zaraki alright" if they don't say it's him by name, confirm that this one became captain by killing his predecessor, or a clear visual image of him. Believe what you want, but fact of the matter is that we have no clue if this one is truly Zaraki or not. Arrancar109 21:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

It said 10th Kenpaichi, if Karaki is the 10th Kenopaichi which saluribi said then thats him.Saimaroimaru 21:21, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that article says "At least 9 prior Kenpachi", which means he had at least 9 predecessors named Kenpachi. That means there could have been 10, 12, 17, etc. before he became captain. It was never stated anywhere that Zaraki was the 10th or had exactly 9 Kenpachis before him; only that there were 9 or more Kenpachis that preceded him. Arrancar109 21:23, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

How Moronic can you people get? The manga gave you proof and still. I tell you what. I leave the article alone and wait till the manga or databooks elaborate more on him.Can someone mark this resolved.Saimaroimaru 21:28, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

No need to get offensive just because not everyone agrees with you. But yes, let's leave this issue alone for now. Arrancar109 21:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Just for general understanding there is nothing stating he is not and more clues that its more then likely him, all leaving it up does is allow people to make wild speculations that can't be backed up. Regardless he is basically described from the traits that we know of zaraki and then its mentioned that the previous kenpachi's lack of ability is what allowed zaraki to become captain, directly reflecting the method on which the position was obtained. While its true that he was not directly stated i dont think anyone can say for sure he doesnt fit the clues, and believing otherwise is gross speculation considering what else do we have to go on. Hopefully someone will mention it directly so this can really just stop.Salubri 21:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Um, I know this is resolved and all.... but, I found something that might support Kaname being a captain before Zaraki. In a flashback in chapter 146.

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/146/02/

It appears as if Kaname has his haori, so, was likely a captain before Zaraki. The only other explanation is the jacket he had under Kensei, but, his hair and the mask he wore are no longer the same, so I think this might prove that Kaname was a captain first. One eye 21:52, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

Kenpachis Zampakto
what is the origin of his zampakto? ive heard he picks it up off i dead body, but im pretty sure its his own sword. if someone finds out please let me know with a source, thanks.Utae 06:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

It is his own sword as far as the manga has said but there is no reason to believe otherwise. Tousen's zanpakuto is that of his deceased friend if maybe that explains any mix up. Greyexile 05:02, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo and Kenpachi's fight
Please stop changing the results outcome from a draw to Zaraki losing. Both of them admitted they lost so it's safe to say it was a draw

Stop changing it FireLordZuko 19:36, 20 August 2009 (UTC)FireLordZuko

Academy
I made a small change. In the article it said that Kenpachi was the only shinigami captain who had not attended the academy. But I read that the head captain founded it so he did not attend it as well. I hope no one disagrees. Greyexile 05:05, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

a) Not too sure about Unohana either, b) I think he did attend a few classes, to help refine his sword technique (Yama taught him Kendo there, didn't he?) TomServo101 22:03, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Yama may have taught him kendo after he became captain. ZeroSD 08:25, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * yama tought him kendo as part of the agreement for him to be a captain as he does not have bankai (this was mentioned in his fight against the espada) Fawcettp 09:45, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Timeline
Since Ikkaku knew about Urahara when he asked Ichigo who trained him that would most likely mean Kenpachi was the captain 100 years back, the one Shinji was complaining about.--SalmanH 20:20, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Possible, but not confirmed, since there was no confirmation that the Kenpachi of TBTP was the same as present-day Kenpachi Zaraki. Again, we're leaving it open as a possibility, but not as a fact, since we there isn't enough concrete evidence to support it. Arrancar109 20:50, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

But didn't Ikkaku join the 11th division shortly after Zaraki, although he could have heard rumors about Urahara and not actually have seen him so yeah I think you're right it's best to leave it for now.--SalmanH 08:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Tosens flashback shows when Kenpachi became a captain. Tosen was already a captain so it had to be after TBtP mini series. Therefore Kenpachi cannot have been a captain during the TBtP series.

Thats why this is a pointless conversation your tryin to use anime filler that causes a conflict with manga to prove your point. The fact is we don't know any other captain who has gotten their position by killing the previous captain per the rules of attaining captaincy but we also dont have direct confirmation that zaraki is the kenpachi in the past 110 years. Thus we its left up to possibility but that anime filler can't be used in this case as it totally takes out of context of what is established in the manga. The truth of it can only come from the manga which is directly from kubo.Salubri 18:54, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Turn back the pendilium was part of the manga that Kubo wrote. Also chapter 146 pg 2 shows tosen as a captain when Kenpachi is a captain. Unless Tosen was a captain before Kensei then Kenpachi was not a captain 100 years ago.

You have to take into account that Kubo has the right to change his mind and considering what was shown in chapter 146, it was a nondescript and small shot and could have been at any time who knows, the point making that the tbtp is more for it then 146 is so theres the issue thats why its unimportant until it can be rightly confirmed.Salubri 02:19, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Not to be disrespectful, but we can hardly consider that panel "unimportant." It is the only clear rendition we have of the period during which Zaraki became captain, sans the obviously uncanon anime. Tosen was clearly donning his captain haori, as well as the hair style he has during the Soul Society arc. The indication makes it clear that the Kenpachi in TBTP is NOT Zaraki. Kubo can change his mind, true enough - it's his manga after all. But he has shown nothing contrary to the page in question, so the statement is pointless anyway. Mohrpheus 03:49, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Captains Haori
Does anyone else think Salubri's change should be reverted, since in the anime he is seen taking it from the corpse of the previous Captain after killing him in battle?--Licourtrix 06:01, September 16, 2009 (UTC)