Forum:Junk trivia

Defining Junk Trivia
Is it just me or has the trivia section of the majority of the characters become something of a joke. For example, "Yammy is the only Espada to have been seen visibly changing his rank"... I am sorry what does that suppose to mean exactly? He is the only Espada that changes ranks. Why would anyone else visibly or invisibly change ranks? Or is this just a backhanded way of entering the fan speculation that Ulquiorra in second stage is actually higher then rank 4? Then there are the paragraph long trivia entries! Am I the only one who thinks that trivia shouldn't be more then one, maybe two sentence at best? I strongly feel that the majority of the trivia sections have grown too large, too full of junk to the point that actual trivia of interest is lost in the clutter. Question is, am I the only one who feels this way. Tinni 10:49, October 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have to agree you Tinni. Trivia should only be a couple of lines long, otherwise it's too long winded. If it is any longer than that (and if it can't be condensed into 2 lines), then maybe it is long enough to justify its own section or inclusion in an existing section. But I sometimes find that some trivia is bloated with irrelevant info as well - some of them go on about other characters in a way that doesn't add anything worthwhile to the original point.

I would like to ask people's opinion on just what would be classified as worthwhile trivia (aside from length issue and avoiding speculation)? --Yyp 11:41, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

I cleaned up a few of them today but it'd hard because a lot of it I feel is both useless but somehow worth including somewhere in the article and there's not really a better spot for it. Trivia is really hard to classify because by definition it is something that is too trivial, to unimportant to be in the main body of the article. Which leaves it open for fanspec and that sort of thing. BollyW 11:47, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Well I consider the "theme songs as picked by Kubo" as good trivia. As is, and I notice we don't actually have them, comments Kubo made about a character in interviews. E.g. Kubo has said Matsumoto and Yoruichi is his favourite female characters and he would like to have Matsumoto as a friend because she's someone who is there for her friends. Kubo also revealed that Aizen and Mayuri are is all time favourite characters. These are interesting, to me at least, and add something that you can't get from reading the article. Tinni 12:04, October 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Those sound like good things to include in trivia, though if we're including comments made by Kubo in interviews, then I think that the text of, or a link to, the interview in question should be included (either in the references or on the talk page). Random little bits of info from datasheets/databooks etc - like Grimmjow formerly being no.12 - would be relevant too imo. --Yyp 12:25, October 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Upside of this would be that we would finally have references for the trivia which would stop people from making-up random stuff. Other good trivia include the one about Wonderweiss having unexplained marking on his body - I added the references to that trivia myself and it was one of those "hey that's interesting!" sort of trivia, especially since thanks to the references you can go back and have a look at the markings yourself and decide if they mean anything or not. I am also glad we kept that "Fura used to be known as superchunky" trivia because fans do still use "superchunky" and so that's helpful to new fans who might not understand what old fans are on about when they go on about superchunky. Tinni 12:29, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad i wasn't the only one to think this. I like the idea of trivia being things that happen outside of the manga, like OVA's or the databooks. Or something a casual fan wouldn't know or notice. And definitely no speculative trivia.14:32, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

I think the trivia sections themselves are a problem. Yes, I can see some of them need cleaning up, but I'm really going to leave that in other people's hands. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't want to help, but I've cleaned out SO much garbage trivia that I'm probably not a good candidate to assist with the clean-up. The kind of trivia I've cleaned up are trivia points like "Harribel is the last of the top 3 Espada to die", "Yammy is the only Espada to be confirmed alive", and "Soifon is the first female to use bankai". Seriously, can anyone tell me how ANY of these 3 trivia points are the slightest bit relevant? Because honestly, to me, these are like saying "the sky is blue" and putting it down in the trivia section. Seriously, "trivia" like this has been added for so long that they are the only ones that I know that need to be removed, due to the sheer uselessness of said points. Arrancar109 19:03, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Some of the ones I dislike are the ones that draw unnecessary parallels between other Bleach characters and characters in Tite's other manga. Unless Tite said he based so-and-so off of someone else, I think it's just fans making drawing those similarities. Name any two characters and you can find something they have in common. I also dislike the long list ones, like where they say, "Oh, she's one of the only people to have a weapon. -list nine other Arrancar here-" I think the obvious ones, where anyone can look at the pictures in the articles alone and figure that out for themselves (like that) shouldn't be included. Especially in Ichigo's section (since you brought him up), because it's ridiculous how many things are included in the trivia that are also in the actual article. It's just a space filler. Personally, I don't see any problem with cutting the trivia down to the most important points. I don't see why they have to be super huge sections that could be a page by themselves. Twocents 22:46, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I didn't see much of a problem with comparisons to Zombie Powder; it's only if someone actually states the words "Gamma directly inspired Grimmjow" or "Aizen's design was deliberately taken from C.T. Smith" that I would see a problem with that. Still, overall I think trivia regarding comparisons to Zombie Powder would vary from person to person, so whatever is done regarding it is probably depended on mass-demand on whether it stays or goes (essentially, I'm neutral on this). Arrancar109 23:47, October 17, 2009 (UTC)

I am happy to start the clean-up process but I would be fairly harsh with the trivia section, removing the majority of the trivia probably dumping them in the talk page with appropriate messages. I would, in short, go nuts. If that's cool with people then I'll start editing the pages but fair warning, under my clean-up the majority of the existing trivia is likely to disappear. Tinni 01:02, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

I reckon go for it, the vast majority should either be deleted or they are already in the article so why bother? BollyW 06:11, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Well I started with Ichigo's section and the number of trivia has been dramatically reduced. Although that article is such a mess this small improvement is likely to be over-looked but the trivia section no longer hurts my eyes. Tinni 09:58, October 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Good work, I've started grinding through the Espada and then the arrancar, but tell me if I'm not being aggressive enough at culling them. BollyW 10:15, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

My problem with the Zombie Powder trivia is that this isn't a Zombie Powder wiki. Although both Bleach and Zombie Powder are by the same person, I think it should fall under the "Don't compare Bleach to other mangas, because this wikia is about Bleach" rule listed on the guidelines page.

Tinni, I think you've done a good job thus far. I almost missed the trivia section since it's so small now that I scrolled right past it. But I do think it's much improved. No need for lengthy irrelevancies. Twocents 18:16, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

There is one piece of trivia that bolly removed, but it got readded(I didn't readd it). Its on Szayels page & i'm going to copy it here.

Szayel resurrected himself with Nemu’s body, using his Gabriel technique, but in episode 199 of the anime, it was completely redone so that it could be toned down. Instead of him laying his egg inside of her and emerging head first from her mouth, he is resurrected from an embryo which emerges from Nemu's mouth and develops into him. Also, Nemu doesn’t end up looking as dried up or decrepit as she does in the manga.

I feel this should be on his page, but is obviously too long for trivia. What do u guys think. Minato88 19:59, October 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe create a new section called "Censorship" and put it there. This is what was done with with a similar on Harribel's page.

Just wanted to say that Tinni & BollyW have done a great job getting the trivia sections back to something reasonable. --Yyp 20:15, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Yeh I wasn't too sure about that one but I thought that it was too long so I went ahead and culled it. I didn't even think of putting a censorship section in but if I come across another one like that I'll know what to do, thanks. BollyW 20:45, October 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about it Bolly, I have already taken care of it & removed it from the trivia. It does need a good pic like Hallibels page, so for anyone on this forum please feel free to add one to it. Minato88 20:52, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Can somebody take a look at Yoruichis trivia(the very first one). I don't think it belongs there, but someone typed it is noteworthy to mention in it. I'm not sure how to change it or where it would be added above. Minato88 22:19, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Using the Characters page as a to do list, I have gone through all the characters up to and including the Vizard, that had not already been done. I'm off to bed now as it is late here, but if anyone wants to continue from there, feel free too. I will resume the cull tomorrow. --Yyp 23:05, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Just removed this from the Espada page:
 * *Yammy Rialgo and Grimmjow Jeagerjaques are the only espada left alive. (not including Nelliel Tu Oderschvank).

See, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about that I'm dealing with constantly. Arrancar109 23:46, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

Hey guys, Thanks for all the work removing junk trivia. Really appreciated. On the censorship topic, I did make a censorship section for Harribel because she has been censored a fair bit. Also might want to check that how they have been censored hasn't been stated else where in the article OR couldn't be included else were in the article. My rule of thumb is that if they have been censored more then once, they deserve a section for censorship. Tinni 01:11, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Komamura
there's a scene on the background of omake 201 representing tetsuzamon's imagination where komamura is smiling. i don't know if it's worth adding since it was only his imagination and not the real komamura but it's the only scene so far that he smiled Shiny-gami 18:25, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but in my opinion it is not worth adding. With that said Tinni & Arrancar109 would more then likely delete it as soon as they saw it. Minato88 23:44, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * I did delete it as soon as I saw it. :-) Tinni 23:50, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * How is that not junk? I mean, sure that's the only time he "smiled" but what off it? How does that add anything to the article? Random observations are well and good but the thing about random observations is that most such observations are of very limited appeal. Unless we are talking about something like Wonderweiss's marking which might be hinting at something to do with the storyline. Tinni 23:50, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * I've been wondering about that mark on Wonderweiss's chest. I thought it was his Hollow Hole. It does look a little different then other Hollows holes, but the reason u can't see all the way through it is because his shirt covers that part of his back. Any thoughts about this. Minato88 00:35, October 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * It's purely speculative and that's why it had to be worded very, very, very carefully. But it is something "new" he got since appearing in FKT. Nothing he had before back when he turned up with Luppi and go. It could just be nothing or it could be something. Which makes it an interesting observation that is trivia worthy. At the same time it could turn out to be nothing and that trivia just a junk. Hard to tell with these thing. Tinni 02:14, October 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * but there's also this trivia "Despite his appearance Komamura seems to like cats, considering he proposed the idea of a videogame where you can raise a cat, as shown in Colorful Bleach, provoking Iba's shock." it's on the trivia and i believe it should fit on his personality.

Shiny-gami 18:33, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for pointing those out. I will remove them. Tinni 10:52, October 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * also there's some trivia in other articles that don't add nothing at all like the "names of hanataro and unohana have "hana" on it" Shiny-gami 19:06, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Kensei Bankai Potential Trivia
Ok so i have two questions about Kensai bankai, and after enough answer maybe some stuff to add to the trivia page. First, is kensai bankai the smallest to date (not counting ichigo, he's something different)and doesn't it look like that priveon espada, and we seen it has an explosive like attack, so maybe it fights the same. Give me your thoughts Kulash05 22:18, October 15, 2009 (UTC) Kulash05


 * Read the site guidelines while you can talk this to death here unless its factual it isn't to be placed on trivia. Speculation or fan thoughts aren't trivia just as someone thinking it looks like the priveon espada release is a matter of opinion, which is the exact reason why it was removed after it was previously placed on the article. Just stating that point so as to save you the trouble on that issue.Salubri 22:43, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

I like trivias, but in some pages are getting long and semingly unimportant, specially the "was the first or last" onesDaigo623 22:50, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

I agree, most are people one upping each other. And trying to get the most posts. Here's a real useful one regarding Ulquiorra:

"The slash that had done in Ulquiorra by Ichigo appears identical to the one Patros inflicted on the illusion Ulquiorra created by Aizen."

Go to any main character page, there's like 2-5 useless trivia listings. User:Superchunky_from_Denver:Superchunky from Denver 23:24, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

I am sick of junk triva too. But I'll tell you what I am really sick of, trivias that are a paragraph in length! If it takes you a paragraph to explain it, then it's not a "trivia" and should probably have it's own section. Case in point, Harribel's censorship. Currently it is sitting in trivia with a picture but it shouldn't be there! It should have it's own section! It's too long and trivias should be things you can expression one, maybe two lines. Come to think of it, I am going to go change the Harribel article right now. Especially since the chances are she's going to get censored further when she releases considering how naked she gets with her release in the manga. Tinni 06:45, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * sigh* I wish I hadn't gone and looked at the Harribel article. Right below the paragraph long censorship triva (which has been moved to it's own section) there is a purely speculative trivia comparing Harribel and Nel! >.< Tinni 06:54, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

To-Do-List
If possible, just so we all know what's already been done and what still needs doing, could the people responsible post the articles they've shredded? I just think it'd make the organisation easier all round. Thanks. TomServo101 19:47, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

I think the vizards, espada and the majority of the shinigami are done. Some of the lesser known articles are untouched but the less popular articles are also unlikely to have trivia at all. Heck, Aizen's article doesn't have any trivia! O.O I thought about adding the trivia about Kubo saying that Aizen (along with Mauyri) are his two favourite characters in all of Bleach but I can't source the interview. :( I'll keep looking. Tinni 10:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, all the pages have been gone through now. There may be the odd bit that was left in for being borderline or something, but virtually all of the existing junk trivia have been taken care of. --Yyp 12:59, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Name meaning Trivia
Alright folks, here is the thing. Only person whose name's "meaning" is explained in the manga is Ichigo. As such his name related trivia is safe and not junk as it does add something to the article. However, people have added "meaning of name" trivias to a number of other articles. Most recently to Ichimaru's article. I have two problems with this, 1) accuracy, 2) relevance/interest. I do think that people are interested in knowing what the characters names mean. But there is no way to verify the accuracy. So do we call them junk and remove them or just leave them in there because people are interested? Tinni 10:55, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * I find the name meanings to be quite interesting, but many characters' names can have several meanings, depending on how you break the name up. The meanings we find may not be the intention of the author, so I think for accuracy's sake, we should not add such things unless it is stated in the manga (like Ichigo), or Kubo Tite has explained it in an interview (I think he may have done this with Rukia, but I can't find the interview to confirm this). However, things like comparing the names of two characters (like that Hanataro/Unohana thing) are junk. --Yyp 12:45, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * This seems like a good time to hightlight another problem. Some of the name meaning business has been added to the profile under the "personality" section. The one I know about is Matsumoto Rangiku. So removing all non-sourced name meaning information isn't just a "clean-up trivia" problem. :/ Tinni 12:50, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I don't see how that adds anything to the description of her personality, so it shouldn't be in that section. As for whether or not it should be anywhere on her page, I don't see the benefit of having it. I can't remember seeing it in the personality sections (or any section other than trivia for that matter) of anyone else though. Will keep an eye out for them. --Yyp 13:18, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Last paragraph personality section "Her first name, Rangiku, can be translated to "rangaku" which in japanese terms, means western medicine. However, the most common translation divides the name into the words "Ran" and "Giku", "Ran" meaning distortion or a large number and "Giku" meaning Chrysanthemum a word which is spoken as "kiku" usually.". Tinni 13:24, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * That definitely doesn't belong either in that section, or anywhere else on her page. It adds nothing of value. --Yyp 14:01, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * A tricky one: under the trivia on Karin Kurosaki's page, it states that her name, Ichigo's & Yuzu's are all fruits. If I remember correctly, Mashiro refers to Ichigo as "berry-tan" (or something similar), while there are chapters titled with Strawberry. So I think that there is merit in mentioning the strawberry meaning on Ichigo's page, but not so sure about his sisters. I'm inclined to say it shouldn't be listed on their pages unless KT or a character in the story mentions it. --Yyp 13:18, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * While I am fond of looking up the meaning of characters name, it does fall under speculation and given how we generally come down like a ton of bricks on speculation, for the sake of consistency we should come down like a ton of bricks on these name related speculations. Tinni 13:25, October 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, putting aside whether or not it is junk trivia, on the basis that it is pure speculation, it should not be included. I've removed it from Karin's page. It wasn't mentioned on Yuzu's or Ichigo's.--Yyp 14:01, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking, since both of us (and I assume quite a few other people, find the name meanings interesting, maybe it would be good to start a separate watercooler thread and list the character name meanings in there? That way people can find out what they mean, and post the meanings that they know, without it affecting the articles. --Yyp 14:01, October 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Good idea! Tinni 14:05, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Moving this thread to keep things consistent with the new forum structure. Tinni 11:44, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Too Strict?
I seriously think this so called "junk trivia" policy you guys adopted is far too strict. What's the harm in letting in a little insight every now and then that doesn't connect directly to production goofs and Bleach plot-line or character development? Weedefinition 16:35, January 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because 1. that kind of thing is often speculation, 2. it is of limited appeal - we adopted the policy because the vast majority of the people did not find this kind of observations interesting and actively complained about it (going so far as to look down upon the quality of the wiki for allowing them), 3. this kind of observations can quickly get out of hand and had gone out of hand, and 4. it doesn't add anything to the article of significance or value. We are strict for a reason. The trivia section was an eye-sore for the majority of the articles before we cleaned things up. I am sorry if people find it too strict and want a place to share interesting observation they have made but the article isn't the place to do them. I am happy to make a place in the forums for this kind of thing, similar to what we have for name meanings - which both me and Yyp enjoyed but couldn't keep around in article because its speculation. Tinni   (Talk)  16:51, January 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't wanna argue about this specifically, but about the admins attitude towards the trivia and your's in particular, Tinni. 1. If it's speculation, undo it. If it isn't keep it. I don't see a problem. 2. I can't really argue about it, since I have never had a problem with the content of the trivia sections. Perhaps since you allowed so much speculative trivia to begin with (name meanings and what not) you had to over react and do a massive sweep of anything that didn't fall into a very narrow column. I'm sure this type of insight (two people found it interesting enough to discuss) won't bring down the value of an article in the eyes of most people. 3. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by getting out of hand, but, once again, the people who allowed it to go out of hand are the admins. I agree that the guidelines must be kept but do they really need to be this stern? 4. I disagree with you on that point the most. First of all, the word trivia comes from trivial. It doesn't need to add anything to the article. Anything that adds to the article shouldn't even be in the trivia in the first place. The trivia sections became an eyesore because you let it slip and sat on it for a long time until it was a complete mess, and when you finally decided to do something about it you over reacted so severely that you wiped out a lot of the most interesting trivia (eye of the beholder territory, I admit). I know I don't really have a chance of changing your mind about this, and I'm not going to go against the policy (even though I think its far too restrictive), but I did want to have my say on the matter at least once. Weedefinition 18:39, January 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * I resent the accusation directed at me personally, especially since the trivia problem is something I discovered once I joined and then spearheaded the clean-up once I realised how bad the situation was and how detrimental it was to the wiki. The other admins did try to keep it under control but without a specific policy behind it, the clean-up effort was a bit futile because the trivia being added wasn't against any policy. Now we do have a policy and therefore CAN clean-up trivia without it being arbitrary. I also resent the implication that I do not know that trivia comes from trivial. I am well aware of it but there is trivial and then there is trivial. The kind of observations are the lowest form of trivial and, as I said, of limited appeal. In this case, you found it interesting but then you also observed it yourself. Therefore, you didn't need the trivia. In addition, the trivia is not an insight into the character. It's just a random observation and in this case, as Yyp pointed out, it is something people can easily deduced based on information already present. So the answer to the question is no, we won't be allowing such observation based trivia. The appeal of which, as you said yourself, is highly subjective. Tinni   (Talk)  01:48, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * To start with I'd like to point out that nothing I said was meant as a personal attack against Tinni or anyone else and I apologize if it was perceived as such. Nor was it my intention to teach you the meaning of the word trivia, which I'm positive you already knew without my help (You know I only wrote it to get my point across. Seriously, lighten up!). I have read Yyp's post on the Ashisogi Jizo discussion page and have (reluctantly) accepted it. But my complaint about the strictness of the "junk trivia" policy remains and I'm hopeful that in time the admins of this Wiki will see fit to allow less restrictive guidelines for trivia items. As I said before, I have no intention of going against the said policy before I manage to get it changed (which may be never). I really wish you hadn't taken it so personally, Tinni. Maybe if you didn't you'd take the time to actually read my complaint and ask yourself if it had any merit, instead of fishing for insults that weren't there. Weedefinition 03:01, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I didn't fish for insults, they were plainly there AND I resent the accusation I went fishing for insults. I did read your complaint and it has no merit. The key here is "limited appeal". Two trivia I cannot add because of the junk trivia policy are "While Kubo has drawn Chibi version of Gin, Tosen, Grimmjow and Ulquoirra, he has never rendered Aizen as a chibi" and "While Rukia has referred to Gin as a snake in the manga, he has been associated with a fox in the Colourful Bleach omakes by Kira and Iba". But while both those trivia are fascinating to me as a I am chibi obsessed and Gin obsessed, I rather doubt very many other people are interested in this kind of observation no matter how factually accurate it is. As I said, I am happy to have an "odd spots" forum post where people list their observation but they have no place in the article. The trivia section was a joke before we cleaned it up. The kind of observation based trivia you are promoting would turn it into a joke again. So my vote is against any laxing of the policy period.  Tinni   (Talk)  04:35, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can feel free to be offended if you want. My conscience is clear because I never meant to insult you. I can't control how you feel, only what I mean. I understand better what you had to deal with, but I'm still gonna look for a way to broaden the horizon, so to speak. Maybe the real problem is the fact that so much about Bleach is speculation as it is, so it becomes hard to find trivia that's backed up by known facts. Weedefinition 12:18, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

This was getting off topic on the Ashisogi Jizo page, so I've moved it here (I responded to on the page to that particular trivia proposal). All I'm going to say is that most of the trivia that was removed was posted on the talk page of the article it came from & if you find a particular point that was removed to be good, you can make a case for it there. If people agree that it is worth having (& it is in line with policy), then it can be added back in. The same applies with proposing new trivia. -- Yyp  (Talk)  18:58, January 1, 2010 (UTC)