Talk:Visored

The bit on "Hollowification"... if I remember clearly, Aizen dubs it "Hollowization" (the episode where he retrieves the Hougykou from within Rukia). Although it is unknown which is the preferable one because of the possible error in translation, we can look at the differences between the suffixes. While "-ification" refers to the production or making of, "-ization" is used to suggest an action, process or result of doing.

Hollowification would be more fitting for Aizen and Urahara's processes of making something achieve a higher position of hollow while hollowization would suggest the actual action involved of going from human/shinigami to hollow. 151.118.197.176 08:25, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Automated transfer of Problem Report #10503
The following message was left by Arrancar79 via PR #10503 on 2008-06-04 18:35:29 UTC

This page is no longer in use, and should be merged with "List_of_Vizards"


 * Resolved

Why I moved this page
The logic is simple. We don't call the Arrancar "Arancaru", nor do we call Soul Society "Souru Sosiyeti", so it just makes sense to use the correct transliteration. And considering Vizard rhymes with "wizard" as opposed to "visor(ed)", I don't see why we should continue using an incorrect word. Got a problem with it? Take it up with Merriam-Webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?vizard01.wav=vizard Omarciddo 08:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)omarciddo

The logic is simple too, Vizard is the real word, and the only reason for which we don't use Souru Sosiyeti&cie, it's because they doesn't really fit with the "Style" of the wiki, but I don't see any problem with Vizard, I reverted it, you can still see on a poll if people wants to redirect it or no, but we can't seriously redirect an important article without any saying before.

EDIT : Also, Anime is NOT a safe source, just see for Mayuri, in the manga, we only see half of his face and much of his "implants" got censured in the anime... Mili-Cien

That particular name comes from Viz Media who is actually known to make up names and not ask the original authors what the names should be. Besides as already said before Vizard is the correct term no matter which way you look at it. Vizard is even a real English word which fits the characters. I seriously don't get how some people prefer incorrect terms over proper ones like this and Soul Reaper. Drunk Samurai 03:01, 21 May 2009 (UTC)


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Vizard and Visored
Which is correct? I've never seen concrete proof of either, though I'm more inclined to believe "vizard" is correct, as opposed to "visored," it's a real word. I don't have a preference, if "Visored" is correct, I'll gladly use it, but I would love some actual set-in-stone information. Has it been written out in English anywhere in the manga? A databook? MementoMoriBlack 01:36, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Basically the actual word is Vizard. When you see visored its not an actual word, its just the english pronunciation of the word Vizard thats all. Salubri 01:41, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

I am confused. If the Japanese spelling for Vizard and Visored is identical, then how can one be sure of what the correct one is? Has Kubo ever spelled it out in plain english before?

Its common logic really. Vizard is defined as a mask or disguise. Visored is defined as the act of protecting with or providing a visor (used on a cap or helmet to shade or protect the eyes). So the reason i said its not an actual word before is because in the particular context it is being used visored is just the pronunciation of vizard in english. The only other spelling for visored is vizored. It seems more then likely whoever does the translations got the two mixed up as the similarity between vizard and visored or vizored is close. But they mean two different things. I just look at the actual meaning of either and the obvious one is correct. As for whether or not Kubo has said anything on it, not specifically that i know of, he likes to make things and then leave it, he doesnt draw it unless he has to, apparently he has alot of ideas before he decides what to do, most likely why we know so little about the vizards in general. Salubri 16:38, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Oops, I had never realized that Vizard was a real word - I suppose that shows how foolish I am. In that case, I agree - Vizard seems to be a far more likely spelling. My guess is that Visored was favored for the English dub because it is a far more common word than Vizard. However, as you said, Vizard's definition seems to fit the description much better, especially since Kubo likes being abstract with his terminology. Mohrpheus 02:45, 5 June 2009 (UTC)


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Speculation on Vizard's Intentions
I edited the last bit of the Synopsis section by adding in the fact that the Vizard may be heading out to fight Soul Society. I did that because it was in parenthesis that they may be going to fight Aizen and I felt that if for some reason we were going to offer one possibility we should probably offer both. If you want to remove the speculation all together I'm also fine with that. Jacksane 19:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

The "Unknown Intentions" thing that was mentioned is actually good enough. That's why it's there. Arrancar109 19:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

When I edited the page all it said at the end was "The Vizard are then seen heading out (possibly to fight Airzen)" so I edited it. Jacksane 19:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not sure who originally put that up, but from the moment I saw it, I had a feeling they may not necessarily side with the Gotei 13 either. The "unknown intentions" thing was always there, but I think it is a common belief that they'd take up arms against Aizen. But the key word is "belief", so, like we both said, it isn't clear which side they're actually fighting on. Arrancar109 20:02, 7 June 2009 (UTC)


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Hachi's Mask
I believe that at some point, it was stated that Hachi's mask looked "rather plain" or something of the sort. That it was shown briefly at some point before the most recent manga chapter? I think it would be worth stating somewhere (maybe in the Trivia area) that Hachi's mask once looked different, but Kubo decided to give it more detail. ShadowDragoonFTW 16:44, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

It's already stated under the hollow mask section on Hachi's page, that his mask was first briefly seen as a plain one with goggle eyes, but it wasn't fully formed yet and that it was only later when it was fully revealed. However, I guess you could add something similar under the trivia here. Blackstar1 17:02, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh. I actually kinda forgot that each Vizard had their own character page... eh... how silly of me? ShadowDragoonFTW 17:10, 11 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Identical pictures
How come the same picture is on the page twice? The one with the Vizards with their masks on and getting ready to fight. It's both up in the Arrancar arc section with the caption "The vizard begin to attack." and then again in the Hollow mask section with the caption "All Vizards with Hollow Masks on." Doesn't that seem a bit unnecessarily repetitive? Perhaps the first one could be eliminated, since the photo isn't affiliated with the Arrancar arc. Twocents 16:54, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Removed it. Arrancar109 16:58, 16 July 2009 (UTC)


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Visoreds or Vaizards?
The English dub calls them Visoreds. Should everything be changed to Visoreds on this page then or is there some reason for leaving it at Vaizards? IchigoKitty 03:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Just slightly up this section on this page is the explanation for why the page is left at Vizards. Twocents 03:27, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Read above...The English pronunciation is Visoreds. The correct one is VIZARDS.--Espada Speed 03:29, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think many people mention this, but what about the pronunciations? The "I" in "Visored" is pronounced the same way as "Vaizaado." However, "Vizard" is pronounced differently and doesn't sound the same as the Japanese. Check it here. -Mr. Toto 23:52, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I hardly consider this resolved, Vizard was used by fansubbing groups, when it came time for the manga to roll out Kubo approved Visored.--Licourtrix 09:37, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

In Chapter 188, page 9 the term used is actually Vaizaado. The websters dictionary defines Vizard as a mask for disguise or protection. Pronunciation: \ˈvi-zərd, -ˌzärd\. While the term Visored is spelled in the manga using kanji meaning masked army (仮面の軍勢 kamen no gunzei?), it is pronounced as the English visored (ヴァイザード), an archaic meaning being "masked". Visored is an defined as an extension of the word Visor. which is the front piece of a helmet, while it can be considered a mask, it does not refer to the same thing as a mask as it is only part of a whole structure and is not separate on its own as a mask, as its attached to another piece such as a helmet. In Chapter 215, page 19 the term used is Vaizards which then refers to Vizard, in romanji is spelled Vaizado it is only taken by fans to be spelled visored in translation even thought that is apparently not the case, unless there is something official that states that the word that makes no sense logically nor is consistently translated is in fact the correct version.Salubri 16:07, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

There was this same debate on Wikipedia, I cannot, nor will I repeat it word for word or even provide a link, as the Visored page was moved into a list of Bleach characters and lost its individual talk page.--Licourtrix 11:56, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Exactly what I thought. In case your wondering this site focuses on bleach and what it does, not what outside sites do, as you can see its already been spoken of here with little people taking issue about it and until it can be confirmed or denied its moot point. You yourself can't even find nor bring up the credible information with which to even push your point of view, so i would ask that your debating be taken to the forum as the talk pages are only for conversation on content and maintenance and thats obviously not taking place in this conversation simply cause you don't agree cause other people where talking about it on some other wiki format.Salubri 14:40, September 3, 2009 (UTC)


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Bankai?
I've noticed on many of the pages of the Vizard former Lieutenants that the Bankai slot says "Not Yet Achieved". We really don't know if they have or not, so shouldn't we show that doubt?

The accepted practice is 'unless explicitly stated, they don't have it'. Same vein as 'innocent until proven guilty'. I wouldn'nt be suprised if they had, but we haven't seen any proof yet. TomServo101 10:21, 18 July 2009 (UTC)


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Vizard Species?
There apparently is some contention about whether the Vizard are a species all alone. Personally I think that they are in situations dealing with them there has been numerous occasions when they refer to themselves as separate from Shinigami all together. Maintaining that they are the opposite of the arrancar, which have long been considered a separate species from their original species of hollow. It only makes sense to allow them their distinction as they a are obviously not shinigami anymore (as they have gained a hollow mask via 'Hollowfication') then arrancar are hollow (as they have removed their mask via 'Shinigamification').Salubri 05:58, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Their affiliation really has nothing to do with their species. I believe Vizard and Arrancar are subspecies, rather than completely separate species. Ancient Chaos 06:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Ancient Chaos. Many of the Arrancar have called themselves Hollow, so it would be reasonable to presume the same for the Vizards. There's a difference between merely not wanting to affiliate yourself with a certain group and actually being an entirely different species. Twocents 06:13, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Well this goes back to my point all 5 (arrancar, vizard, shinigami, human, hollow) are presented as separate species in one form or another. It is commonly seen that the Vizard are capable of more then any shinigami as well as the arrancar are capable of doing more then any hollow and that in fact they each dont engage in what their respective former lives would entail. The point i think im making is either subspecies or species they are no longer truly what they once were.Salubri 06:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

What constitutes a new species is not as clear in bleach. Most would consider Humans, Shinigami and Hollows to be the main three species and everything else a sub-species of it, however even this three would fall under a sub-species category. By going thru the process we can get a closer view to them.
 * A soul that is incarnated becomes a Human.
 * When a Human dies it becomes a Plus
 * A Plus may be sent to Soul Society, become a Hollow or be devoured by one
 * If the soul goes to Soul Society and develops spiritual power it may attempt to become a Shinigami. If not it will simply live and die and start the process again.
 * If the soul becomes a Shinigami it may gain Hollow powers and become a Vizard.


 * If the plus becomes a Hollow it may evolve into a Menos and continue is evolution.
 * At any point during is evolution it may gain Shinigami-like powers and become an Arrancar.

So in short the core of everything is a Soul, and it just goes thru changes. If we consider anything in between to be a new species than by all means the final product would also be consider a new species. WhiteStrike 00:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

At the base core of everything...theres a human soul. From that standpoint, they're all still humans. Except perhaps Hollow who could be considered part of a human soul, since what made them a human is gone, thus resulting in their transformation to a hollow in the first place. Until they put the mask on, a visored is still a shinigami, the way Urahara talks though and from what i've seen, all Vice Captain's or Captains seem to have an inner hollow that can be "awakened" via hollowfication. Perhaps one should submit whether or not a visored is still a human in his view to Kubo, along with the whole Vizard/Visored Shinigami/Soul Reaper thing. :D --Licourtrix 09:46, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

What are you talking about Humans dont inter into the equation seeing as they are living, this is about the souls, while it stands that Vizards can be considered a sub-division of shinigami as that is the base they originally come from, but they do not consider themselves shinigami. They stop being human after they die, if you notice when something becomes a soul/shinigami/arrancar they speak of humans as entirely separate beings at this level no one is human unless your alive. Hollows become hollows due to its soul becoming empty because of its circumstances of lose. I would also really like to see what manga your reading cause Urahara never hints at anything like that at all. Also im not sure if your new to the site but we have no contact with Kubo so we can't submit anything.Salubri 16:07, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Aren't you a feisty one. Let me put it this way. You can speak of something as if its entirely different, from you, but that doesn't make it so. As Ancient Chaos and Twocents stated, it seems like Arrancar and Visored, are more like subspecies of Hollow and Shinigami respectively. With the exception of hollows, who lose their "heart". The very core of what a shinigami is is a human soul, that has passed on to soul society and had, or developped spiritual powers. In my opinion just because they're dead they're still the soul of a human. diagram explaining what i mean.Thus making shinigami a subspecies of humans. I've been reading Bleach, and watching the anime, same as you. I didn't think you did have contact with Kubo, most especially not the wiki anyway as he tends to avoid online groupings of his fans. However, certain fansites occasionally have a Q&A session with him which use questions submitted by fans....I'm sure with alittle googling for "Bleach Fansite" you could find them...This will be the last time I answer about this, as anything else would simply be a re-hash of whats already been said.--Licourtrix 11:51, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Wow I could have swore I brought up the fact that they may very well be a subspecies of shinigami. Your entitled to your opinion but there is 371 chapters of manga that state multiple times that shinigami are no longer human nor consider themselves as one, seeing a humans are alive and shinigami arent, that makes no sense a soul cant be a subspecies of human as to be considered so they would have to make up of the same material humans (atoms) and souls (reishi) arent.Salubri 14:40, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Theres nothing here to resolve. Suffice it to say discussion has ended at a stalemate any thing said here would probably be considered original research either way since its never really discussed in the anime/manga, and in the future I'll appreciate if you don't remove my posts simply cause they make you look bad. If you don't wanna look bad, take second to look over what you've said. --Licourtrix 00:11, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Take into account you make yourself look bad when you talk about things that have no bearing in the content of the series as if it were facts. Next time you decide to argue with someone back it up with some actual material so you don't look ridiculous and i would also suggest you dont get personal with me when making your comments cause you dont want me to go there with you.Salubri 00:56, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Oh spare me your lame threats. In my opinion (which I value greatly) it does have some bearing on the series. If I have to quote specific examples from the show however as to how a soul is still human without its body it'd waste time with obvious things. As Urahara stated in Memories of Nobody the souls go from the world of the living, to soul society, in a continuous loop. They're human when they're alive but somehow dying they're not? pfft. Also if Orihime's brother wasn't still human somehow when he died he wouldn't have stopped himself from attacking her and killing her. There is nothing in the show to suggest a human soul seperated from the body isn't still human. Furthermore since Hollows can be purified and the soul go to Soul Society to be reborn, the original soul must still be there thus the hollow isn't much different than the souls in soul society that can go on to become Soul Reapers. I see your spelling has improved, now I'd work on punctuation.--Licourtrix 00:17, September 9, 2009 (UTC)