Talk:Shunsui Kyōraku

Typo
I know this is not a major issue but still, being a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to English this is kind of bugging me.

Under his Powers & Abilities his trait Master Strategist & Tactician it says in the second sentence: "According to Yamamoto, even when he was younger, Shunsui has always had an eye for seeing the truth character of anyone he meets."

Shunsui has always had an eye for seeing the "truth" character of anyone he meets. The "truth" character? I think "true" character is more fitting. But, the page is locked and I can't fix it. So I guess if an admin catches this or someone gets a chance to fix it when it gets unlocked please do. It is urking me. =p Thanks. Ltjuno (talk) 11:20, August 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fixed. 16:32, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly! Ltjuno (talk) 16:35, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you kindly! Ltjuno (talk) 16:35, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Reiatsu and defeat of Starrk
Continued from edit history.

"Thats not true they were in a fight when he defeated starrk who just wasnt paying attention when he got hit)"

Starrk's attention was focused on Love and Rose at the time. If the results of Shunsui's other sneak attacks are any indication, Kageoni wouldn't have worked nearly so well if Starrk was aware of Shunsui in the area. He also never landed on the ground in the first part of the fight, so I doubt Kageoni would get a chance to be used. And even if he landed, it would probably be after Shunsui was in the kind of shape Love and Rose were, so... Zira1 (talk) 08:29, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Im not sure what your talking abut he attacked his from behind true but that attack didn't weaken him any they fought up front after and Starrk lost he wasn't strong enough, his defeat by a shikai proved as much. The sneak attack had nothing to do with it. There is nothing in the fight that proves that it did. If your going the additional footage put into the anime then thats also incorrect the information up is from the manga. Kageoni wasn't even being used when Starrk was defeated.--Salubri (Talk)  08:41, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Umm, generally when a sword goes through your spine, it effects your combat performance. After Kageoni, his speed was hugely reduced. How do you explain him being able to dodge attacks from behind (Which was Shunsui trying his best to kill him, he said so himself: http://manga.animea.net/bleach-chapter-362-page-11.html ) Then is unable to dodge a head on attack, even when he sees it coming? http://manga.animea.net/bleach-chapter-374-page-18.html

Shunsui was going to use Bankai in a head on fight after one use of Cero Metrelleta, so I don't see how it can be argued that he can win in Shikai without two other captain levels to distract Starrk.

I also don't think that that line even belongs in that section anyway. His kill of Starrk doesn't say anything about reiatsu, it just means he had the right tools for the job. Zira1 (talk) 18:09, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

All matter of injury in the series you can make claims on how it affect the performance but in all characters continue to fight anyway. Starrk was not paralyzed or half dead, he didn't even think of how he is badly damaged or anything. Which brings one to the conclusion the injury wasn't an issue to his continuation of the fight. We are not stating something based on what could possibly be. Also Shunsui was thinking about using bankai but he didn't and still defeated him regardless. Also spiritual power is directly proportional to the overall power as its what all shinigami life and power run on so it does belong in the section as it stands to how great his power is in comparison to those who were incapable of a feat at that level on a high ranked opponent. --Salubri (Talk)  18:33, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, how do you explain Starrk's sudden decrease in speed then? As I said, he even sees the "black" slash coming, and can't avoid it. As for why he didn't think of how badly damaged he is, when has any character in the series ever shown thoughts like that? Why would you spend time thinking about it when you already know? And as I said, his speed was noticably decreased, regardless if he commented on it or not. Zira1 (talk) 21:48, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

What is your point? There have been characters in the series that sustained more damage than Starrk without any visible effects on their overall combat performance. That's the equivalent of saying that Zaraki's combat performance took a dive during his fight with Nnoitra, when he was getting slashed repeatedly to the point that he admitted he would die if he went on like that; despite that, he managed to take him out with ease once he whipped out Kendo. The same goes for Starrk; we can't say that his speed took a dive simply because he was injured. Also, seeing an attack coming doesn't always mean that you can dodge it. Mohrpheus (talk) 22:04, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Not all characters are as durable as Yamamoto, Komamura, Kenpachi, Ichigo, ect. The Kageoni would have at least cut his spine somewhat, which is more crippling than the wounds Zaraki took from Nnoitra that you used as an example anyway. I know that seeing an attack coming doesn't always mean you can dodge. But if you go from dodging surprise attacks like this: http://manga.animea.net/bleach-chapter-362-page-7.html or this: http://manga.animea.net/bleach-chapter-363-page-13.html to being unable to dodge an attack you can see coming at you, I'd say that there's been a decrease in your speed. Zira1 (talk) 22:15, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

"We are not stating something based on what could possibly be. " Actually, that is exactly what is currently being stated. The statement in question implies that the result of the battle would have been identical had Love and Rose not interfered, which absolutely cannot be verified. As for reiatsu being an exact indicator of Shinigami strength: obviously not. Aizen had twice a Shinigami captain's normal reiatsu as a Shinigami -- yet he defeated no less than 7 of them. Much of what happens in Bleach battles depends largely on circumstance and a balance of abilities, aka, "match-ups". I thought everyone would have understood that after Ishida's and Sado's battles with Demora and Iceringer -- unless you think that Hisagi is genuinely more powerful than Tosen? Anyway, I think that its fairly hypocritical to denounce speculation as a whole and yet openly speculate that Shunsui's overwhelmingly amazing reiatsu had anything to do with his defeating of Starrk, despite no direct reference being made to said overwhelmingly amazing reiatsu. Curious91 (talk) 23:31, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

The statement as it stands now simply says that he has an immense amount of Reiatsu and that his strength is great enough to beat the primera with shikai only. There is no speculation in there. It does not say that it was only because of his reiatsu that he won. It does not say anything other than that he has an immense amount of reitasu and that he has strength enough to beat the primera with shikai alone. All of this is true. We are not putting some speculative statement up there that he only won because Starrk was injured. We do not know that. The fact of the matter is that he beat Starrk with Shikai alone and that is all the statement says--God (Pray)  00:03, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'll admit that the "with his Shikai" part doesn't really belong in that statement, as that has less to do with his reiatsu and more to do with his actual combat ability, and the advantages he gets from his individual abilities. However, the statement doesn't mean that he won because he had higher reiatsu, it means that if his reiatsu weren't on par with Starrk's, he wouldn't have been able to win against him in the first place. We can't say that having his spine cut affected him at all, because: 1) that would be making assumptions about Arrancar anatomy (Starrk already has a hole where part of his spine should be) 2) as you said, durability varies greatly among different characters, so we can't make any assumptions about one character based on another 3) as was said repeatedly, nobody said or implied that it affected Starrk in any way, so we have no way to reference that it happened 4) with the same logic, Shunsui should have slowed down as well after being shot in the back; instead, he was able to outmaneuver Starrk. Mohrpheus (talk) 00:16, August 30, 2010 (UTC)