Forum:New Developments

Ok so Aizen takes out Harribel and tells her that he is basically disappointed and pissed off because he went to all the trouble of gathering the espada and he alone is more powerful then all of them. The he goes on to say that it is time to basically start the fight and calls out the Gotei 13 and what he terms as shabby arrancar wannabes. Now I wont say its confirmation by any means but I will say that these two accounts for Aizen would clear up at least for me 2 outstanding questions. 1> The top Espada are in fact no more then extremely power adjhucas made even more powerful by shinigamification as it is seriously doubtful that Aizen is alone more more powerful then a handful of vasto lorde class arrancar. 2> He obviously is unimpressed with the Vizard and seems to think they are inferior to the Arrancar and seeing as for the longest time he has dealt in shinigamification it would stand to reason that the notion of becoming a vizard himself never accured to him and was seemingly unappealing as he somewhat states. Hopefully if anyone else choices to see those point it will put those two bits of gross speculation to rest.Salubri 08:37, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I will agree that the current chapter does in fact seem to indicate that Aizen decided there is no point in breaking the wall between Shinigami and hollow from Shinigami side, I can't agree that it definitively indicates that the top two were not Vasto lords. I never thought that Harribel was but we have seen Barragan in his pre-arrancar days and he looks NOTHING like the confirmed adjuchas and it's not like we haven't seen adjuchas. Not saying it confirms him as a Vasto lord but he is the closest thing to the description of Vasto lord we do have. Then there is Starrk, who was so powerful that he couldn't live with other hollows... again doesn't say he is a Vasto Lord but it is a point in that column. To me what Aizen comments say is that he's disappointed with the whole arrancar thing. To begin with, when he came to Karakura Town he was saying, to Gin minus any other audience save Tosen, that he believe the espada would wipe the floor with the Gotei 13. If the top three were just adjuchas I doubt Aizen would be so confident of his victory. No, I think at least Starrk and Barragan were Vasto Lord and the fact that they were defeated has lead Aizen to be so severely disappointed that he didn't even wait for Harribel to finish fighting. I think his statement is more "I give up! Even Vasto Lord class arrancar are nothing but shit", not "None of you were Vasto Lords, I knew I should have waited to get more of them". I don't know if Kubo will ever confirm who is and who isn't a Vasto Lord, but I hope that when these chapters come out in the form of manga volumes, he'll include a profile page that'll settle this question. Until then, I am maintaining my position that Starrk and Barragan at least were Vasto Lord and Aizen just pulled the plug on this entire arrancar project because even his vasto lord arrancars failed him. Tinni 09:24, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

The Espada 4 and up are all more powerful than captains. Harribel survived Hitsugaya's ultimate 'this is dangerous could kill everything' attack without any noticeable damage (needed to be broken free but she wasn't *hurt* and that was Toshiro's best shot), and 1 and 2 both took multiple captains to beat. Vasto Lorde are only 'more powerful than captains'. Note the lack of 'significantly', 'greatly', etc..

Aizen just outright said he's more powerful than all the Espada which includes 4 'stronger than captains', two more 'about as strong as captains' who gave captains good fights, and 4 'near as strong as captains'. So with that the standards he's judging himself by? Heck yea I can believe he's more powerful than a handful of Vasto Lorde. I have no idea what he is, but he's stronger than everything.ZeroSD 11:12, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't this seem a little odd to all of you. Aizen seemed to plan for every possibility. But now, Yammy is the only arrancar left. And we all know he's screwed. I'm telling you Aizen has a backup plan. I mean he sounded pissed, but he didn't seem a little less pissed then he should be. I mean he has to defeat the strongest people good has, and win almost single handidly. he's got a backup plan, not sure what it is, but he's got one. Elementite 11:21, October 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * He has a back-up plan. Himself :D Tinni 11:36, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

He was probably just testing the espada, to see how good they are but now that all are dead except for Yammy and Grimmjaw he's probably going to implement his backup or real plan.--SalmanH 11:44, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Salubri complained about the the three (maybe even the top four) being Vasto Lord speculation and while I am not disagreeing that it is speculation, at least the weight of evidence, especially for Starrk and Barragan being Vasto Lord class arrancar, is a lot higher than for the speculation that Aizen has a "back-up army". I mean, the fact that Aizen approached Starrk and Barragan personally is probably the biggest tick to them being something extraordinary and Vasto Lord's are something rare and extraordinary when it comes to hollows. But this Aizen "back-up army" thing... what do we really have to go by except that Aizen has been known to plan things out well in advance. But that's just the point. Aizen DIDN'T expect his top three to be defeated. He said so himself and at this point there is no reason for him to lie about something like that. This to me adds another evidence for the top three being Vasto Lord AND another evidence in the box that says Aizen doesn't have a super secret back-up army. If he did, he wouldn't be getting ready to battle it out with the Gotei 13 and Vizards himself. Aizen has never shown he particularly likes to get his hands dirty. So if he is preparing to get his hands dirty that means he has activated Plan B which in this case appears to be "Screw it! I'll just kill you all myself." Tinni 12:10, October 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * If that's his plan B it will obviously fail. Aizen is supposed to be too smart for that, but maybe he's feeling really frustrated. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 12:37, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I think Aizen misjudged the power of the Espada compared to the Gotei 13 and not Himself when he said he is more powerful than them all. Now the reason I said this was because their was only one Espada that took two Captain level shinigami to kill him and that was Barragan. the only reason I say it two people for him was because Soifon was a bad match up for him so Hachi needed to step in. Starrk was defeated single handed by Shunsui and fairly easy I must say. Tia would have been defeated I think if she wasnt released by WW. Cuarta was defeated by Ichigo but we all know what happened there. From 5 on to 8 or lets say 9 were defeated by only one person. So Aizen is to be stronger than everyone who defeated a Espada so thats why he said he is stronger than them all. The only fight that has actually taken two shinigami to fight is WW. Though Mashiro gave him a beaten he and still out lasted her mask he had to be stopped by Kensei. Now time will tell the kinda fight he will put up against Kensei but we must remeber he still didnt release his zanpakuto yet either so he is not a full strength. Tealang99 12:47, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Alleluia! Aizen flips his lid at long last! He does have a personality afetr all. I can't wait to see what he does next. Sadly, it'll be for another time. Next week'll probably be Wonderweiss and Kensei, I bet. TomServo101 12:48, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I think Aizen has a back-up plan, because if he doesn't, he has to be defeated in this arc which would effectively end the series. Since it seems that Kubo Tite has plans for Bleach (like, some other mini-arcs and insights into different characters and lots of other stuff) he will keep the main villain alive and plotting until the very end. Besides, it was always emphasized that Aizen will do anything to achieve his goal, so it would've been rather odd for him to just stand there and watch serenely if the fate of his World Dominance project had actually depended on it. P.S. I read that Kubo Tite promised "a more evil Aizen" - that'd explain it. I wouldn't be surprised even if it turned out Aizen didn't need the King's Key at all, or already has it manafactured somehow =)

First up, Tealang what are U talking about? During the entire fight with Barragan, Soifon was the only captain he fought with. Marechiyo is a lieutenant, & I know Hacchi is strong enough to be considered a captain, but he isn't & wasn't, he was the lieutenant of the Kido Corps. Second during Starrks fight a total of 4 separate captain level shinigami fought him, Shunsui, Jushiro, Love, & Rose, count em'. I'm not trying to be rude, but I think U just aren't giving Starrk enough credit. Besides that the top 4 Espada were Vasto Lordes & heres why I think that. Ulquiorra stated that the top 4 Espada are forbidden by Aizen to release their Zanpakuto inside of Las Noches. I would also like to point out that the 4 Adjuchas we have seen were hardly a match for a 3rd or 4th seat shinigami 1-on-1. I would also like to point out that when Toshiro talked about the Menos he stated that the Vasto Lorde were BELIEVED to be stronger then the AVERAGE SHINIGAMI CAPTAIN. I don't know if there are any other Arrancar that could be Vasto Lordes, but it is possible that Wonderweiss is. I don't know why, but I have a feeling hes stronger & smarter then he's letting on. Minato88 15:30, October 2, 2009 (UTC)