Forum:Zangetsu

I have a theory I will throw out; why Ulquiorra refers to Ichigo's Bankai Getsuga Tensho as being like Cero Obscuras- 1- Ichigo's inner hollow and the spirit of Zangetsu are said to be one and the same. I think that this also alters Zangetsu's abilities in Bankai form as well; the physical enhancements (speed, strength) are a product of Zangetsu's power, while the getsuga is a product of Ichigo's inner hollows power. There is a lot to support this- a- the fact that Ichigo didn't know how to use Getsuga in his fight with Byakuya until his hollow did it b- the fact that Ichigo using his Getsuga before mastering his hollow helped his hollow to    come out c- in Ichigo's third fight with Grimmjow, Halibel said that it was more like a fight between two espada than anything else; when Ichigo dons his hollow mask, he becomes more like an espada; and his getsuga gets much stronger, as the Cero Obscuras aspect of it is enhanced --Ulquiorra Wannabe128 10:08, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Well it's too early to tell about your theory. It should be covered in the next couple of chapters, but Getsuga Tensho is NOT Hollow Ichigo's technique. Ichigo CAN use regular Getsuga Tensho in Shikai, not to mention retain it within Tensa Zangetsu before hollow Ichigo learned how. The only validity of your theory is that that Cero Obscuras looks similar to Getsuga Tensho, coupled with the fact that Hollow Ichigo learned Black Getsuga first. The reason Ichigo could not use Black Getsuga without his inner hollow appearing is simple- the more energy he expends the easier it is for the hollow to gain control. This is why he refused to go Bankai against Hiyori, so he could keep control. Bankai itself also uses plenty of reiryoku.Renji Abarai 21:16, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

He used getsuga before the hollow tok over. He learned it when he was training with Mr. hat and clogs (Can't spell his real name)

but when he trained with kisuke uraharra he got his shikai and hollow powers

actually when ichigo first learned zangetsus name was after he regained his shinigami powers and also attained his hollow powers due to training with kisuke urahara so since he gained his hollow powers before he learned zangetsus name mean that they shared one body and that ichigos shikai and bankai were based on hollow powers evidence when he battled kenpachi who had a gold skull signifying his spiritual power and a blue skull similar to a hollow mask signifying ichigo's power and kenpachi and ichigo have the same type sword staying in its in shikai due to their high spiritual energy so all they have is high spiritual power and a zanpakuto so ichigos inner hollow's power may have fused with his shinigami powers to make up his shikai and bankai abilities--Hitsugaya3194 17:14, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Although some of the spiritual power used to release a Getsuga Tensho may be attributed to Ichigo's inner hollow, the attack itself stems from Zangetsu, which at the instant of a slash absorbs Ichigo's spiritual power and releases it as highly condensed energy at the tip of the blade (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/161/05/). This ability is the unique attribute of Ichigo's zanpakuto, which stems from Ichigo's large reserve of spiritual energy, not his inner hollow. A cero basically relies on the same principle of firing concentrated spirit energy at the target in the form of an energy blast from a single point. In this way the two attacks resemble each other but Ichigo's is only made possible due to his shinigami powers, that allow Zangetsu to absorb spiritual power. Blackstar1 22:38, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't really think that the hollow has anything to do with the zanpaktou's ability, it only affects the wielder. Ichigo's soul formed zangetsu the hollow came from zangetsu, almost like the sword is the scales and the hollow and ichigo balance on opposite sides. The sword has its own identity but the power output is controlled by the user, Urahara said something along the lines of breaking the barrier between hollows and shinigamis to help strengthen a shingamis soul. I doubt the hollow adds or takes away abilities just strengthens them.

how could ichigo's inner hollow come from zangetsu when he was created within ichigo before ichigo could ever hear zangetsus name you dont make sense think about what you wrote--Hitsugaya3194 01:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Just because Ichigo could not hear Zangetsu does not mean he did not exist, the spirit of a zanpakuto is always present within the sword no matter what stage a shinigami has obtained. Even so, how can you say that one was created before the other when they are one and the same, they are both parts of Ichigo's personality and the only reason one was introduced before the other is that the dominant personality is in control of the other. Blackstar1 02:40, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

reason being ichigo's inner hollow power is a mixture of zangetsu and inner hollow ichigo's powers

yeah..hitsugaya3194 you have a point on that., and i have a question...is the other ichigo..the black one,.is his hollow personality? or someone else? because he returned to zangetsu after his fight with ichigo...and when the hollow takes control of ichigo..he's the one who's speaking...kindly tell me the details...I'm confused...O.o

Zankakku

Hitsugaya3194 how could ichigo's inner hollow come from zangetsu when he was created within ichigo before ichigo could ever hear zangetsus name you dont make sense think about what you wrote. Watch the part when he trains with the vizards, it comes straight from the horses mouth, u dont make sense. Check facts b4 u correct them.Anakin69 08:54, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok calm down everyone. I'll try and clear this up. Hollow Ichigo and Zangetsu are two different entities. Zangetsu is Ichigo's soul reaper power that has existed ever since he was born and was awoken when Rukia first gave Ichigo soul reaper powers. Hollow Ichigo was created when Ichigo recovered his true soul reaper powers after Byakuya destroyed the power he gained from Rukia. Both are the source of his power, however which ever one is the dominant power is the one that appears when Ichigo visits his inner world. So when Ichigo fights Zaraki, Zangetsu is the dominant one and so is able to call out and send back Hollow Ichigo from whatever part of Ichigo's soul he inhabits. When Ichigo is in Vizard training, Hollow Ichigo is in the position of power and so is the one who appears. Currently it is unknown what Ichigo's power source is as Hollow Ichigo warned him not to die if he wanted to truly master his powers. BollyW 09:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC)