Talk:Shūhei Hisagi

Kazeshini Picture
Excuse me, but I somehow dislike the colored version of Kazeshini that was added at the end of the page, not that it's bad colorized, far away, even, but I simply liked that Manga Touch' that uncolored manga images gave to the wiki...Does it annoy anyone if we stay with the original's one ?

Sorry, but i have to disagree i feel that the colored pics make it it look more like the anime, lets put it this way. would you rather havee all the images on this wiki to be colored anime style or manga black and white style? Dekoshu talk contrib 17:56, 30 November 2008 (UTC) Personally, I prefer colored images, for vividity, and for anime, phenomenal animation.

Don't take it so bad, Shuhei, I only want some pics to stay uncolored, manga touch, not manga-full ;) . Well, hu...

Kido Practitioner?
Hi guys its me shuhei, ive noticed that on some pages of liuetenants it says kido practitioner as an ability, but wouldn't it be kido master, because during the sneak entry arc Iba says to Ikkaku that if he had mastered kido and the other two Soul Reaper abilities instead of just swordsmanship, that he could get the promotion to liuetenant


 * Not necessarily. We don't know how skilled Shuhei is with Kido as of yet (though, I would say he's an expert, but still below Izuru and Momo), since his skills with kido isn't highly explored in the manga (or mentioned by characters). Also, to truly master Kido, a shinigami has to know at least all non-forbidden skills (including the Hado #90 that Aizen used). So far, I'd say the only ones who qualify as "Kido Masters" are Tessai, Aizen, Yamamoto, and possibly Hachigen, since they would know all non-forbidden kido spells (and in Tessai and possibly Hachi's case, also forbidden spells). Arrancar109 16:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Hisagi has shown to be very knowledgeable with kido as high level and without the incantation. The basic points to be a expert.Salubri 03:55, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Necklace

 * does anyone know anything about the necklace thingy used in conjunction with bakudo #62, is it part of the spell or just a spiritually charged object or another kido altogether Fawcettp 01:48, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The neck band seems to just be a spiritually charged item intended to be used like flash bangs, not kido. --れび (talk to Lavi!) 20:37, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Hisagi doesn't have Bankai?
Well for all we know, most lieutenants don't have Bankai with exception to Renji. Most are stated that they're trying to learn Bankai whereas for Hisagi, it hasn't been explained at all. Shouldn't the Bankai description be "Not yet Revealed/Achieved"? If not then in which chapter has it been made clear that Hisagi doesn't have Bankai? --Jezzarules 13:30, 5 June 2009 (UTC) Profiles are not coming soon spoilers they are for information that is factually known. The reality is that why potentially capable of achieving bankai. He does not possess it anymore then anyone below captain level (sans renji and ikkaku who we know have it). Until that fact changes all the amount of wanting to learn doesn't change the fact that one hasn't learned it. If its known by reason that you have bankai (which is the case with te captains excluding kenpachi) but haven't revealed it. It is listed as Unrevealed until it is. If you dont have bankai which most of those under captain don't then its Unachieved. We dont go by what if's there are completely unreasonable and without factual evidence to the point. there is no question that no one assumed renji may possibly had bankai either he did or didnt and no one said he did until it was seen. same with ikkaku. So the real question to ask on this site is, where in what chapter does it say he has a bankai? cause otherwise its not relevant to even put forth the notion. The simple answer is it doesn't say it anywhere nor is it inferred. Salubri 02:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Broken/unbroken Kazeshini chain
Hisagi's shikai was snapped by Allon when it was around his neck immediately before Allon crushed Hisagi in his hands (http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/337/12/). In ch.367, we see that Kazeshini is undamaged. Pages 18 & 19 show that the two parts are connected by an unbroken chain ( http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/367/18/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/367/19/ ). I think this be made note of either under the section on Kazeshini, or under trivia. Opinions? --Yyp 16:25, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, it is already inheritantly known that a zanpakutou is perfectly capable of regenerating itself. Like Zangetsu during Ichigo's fight with Kenpachi. Hisagi had plenty of time to recover from his injuries after the whole Allon fight had gone on - seeing as a zanpakutou is an extension of one's soul, it might have recovered as well. Besides, the damage seemed pretty minor to me. Mohrpheus 16:33, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

The Zanpaktou is able to regenerate overtime. The main person to show that this is possible is Renji Abarai because his Zabimaru has broken a number of times in the anime. such as fighting Aizen.Heruga59 18:03, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

He Hasn't Fought the Most
Hisagi - Findor, Allon, Tousen = 3

Matsumoto/Hinamori - Apache, Sun Sun, Mila Rose = 3

Yamamoto - Apache, Sun Sun, Mila Rose, Allon = 4 Ancient Chaos 23:02, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Were talking actual fight time not how many people. Hisagi has in engaged more people in an actual fight. Yama fought the creature and killed it, and burned the faccion. Matsumotoa ahd hinamori fought against the three faccion and were taken out without incident by the creature they never fought it. Hisagi fought findor and killed him, he actually fought allon and lost and now he is about to take on tosen. Fought the most as in actually fought not the amount of people.Salubri 23:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

That should probably be specified then, it's rather misleading the way it's currently worded. Ancient Chaos 23:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Granted but you can reword it so it makes sense then instead of just deleting it.Salubri 23:15, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Chain Length
is it worth noting in either the shikai or trivia section that the length of the chain is either adjustable or variable, given the length of it in the current picture and while he's fighting Allon (almost a block plus wrapping around him three times)? Ancient Chaos 22:05, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

If the cloth around Zangetsu is mentioned as being changable i'd think the chain on Kazeshini should be too. also the chains on hozukimaru in it three section form. Nick D Wolfwood 13:40, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Acting Captain
In Bleach the Diamond Dust Rebellion a Soul Reaper reports that Lieutenant Izuru Kira and Acting Captain Shuhei Hisagi encountered Captain Hitsugaya. Why is Shuhei called the Acting Captain while Izuru is still just a Lieutenant?--Kylecharmed 22:22, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Let's not forget that the movies aren't exactly canon. So that's the first thing you should remember. Second, it may be because of a subber's choice of translation. The fact is that Acting Captain is just a title and Lieutenant is a rank. Acting Captain means that in the absence of an actual Captain, Tosen in the 9th and Ichimaru in the 3rd, the highest ranking officer, the Lieutenant, will take over duties for the division until a captain is appointed. For instance, in the current filler, Renji takes over the 6th division as Acting Captain because of the disappearance of Byakuya. Hope that clears up that.--Shinitenshi 00:19, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

Well, Actually I was watching the Dubbed version, I dont watch Subtitled. I does clear it up somewhat, though, but why is Izuru still the lieutenant? Thank you, anyway.--Kylecharmed 00:50, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

Izuru hasn't been promoted to Captain. Neither has Hisagi. Both of them are Lieutenants. Acting Captain isn't a rank. It doesn't go Captain then Acting Captain then Lieutenant. It is just a title in lieu of an actual captain. It means that they lead their division because there is no captain. Simple as that. As for the dubbed version, there are so many things that are wrong with it or mistranslated that it would be too long to discuss in just a few sentences.--Shinitenshi 01:00, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I recall the sub version of DiamondDust Rebellion having that too. Either way, there's no real explanation as to why Hisagi's referred to as "Acting Captain", and like Shinitenshi said, it's not really a rank. But it seems that he's said all that needs to be said here. Arrancar109 01:03, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

Junk trivia clean-up
Removed trivia


 * Hisagi and 8th Division Lieutenant Nanao Ise are the only current lieutenants who appear in the Turn Back the Pendulum Mini-Series.

I don't know what the above trivia adds to the article. Tinni 13:32, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

someone keeps deleting my trivia adage. in omake chapters shuhei fantasizes about a snowball fight where he saves Rangiku and she "thanks" him. showing that he has a crush on her and/or he like to fantasizes about fellow Gotei 13 members. explain to me why it keeps getting deleted. and if someone wants to add it cause its not letting me. Consume and envelop: kurogami 08:22, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Well that is a junk trivia. Perhaps in his personality section or something we can say that he has fantasies of rescuing and seducing Rangiku, as his fantasies do say a few things about him as a person, but as a trivia... it's not really a trivia topic IMO. Tinni 11:15, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Zanpakuto translation...?
The translation for "Kazeshini" is stated as "Wind Death". Are we sure it's not "Wind of Death" or "Death Wind"? I think it would make more sense. BlazingStar 02:39, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but I ran the kanji through three translators (babelfish, google, and bing). Two of them translated it as "wind death" and one translated it as "death wind." I think either makes sense, and without being bilingual myself, I suppose I'd default to whatever the majority of the translators agree on. Twocents 02:42, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

'Wind Death' does not make sense. Either 'Wind of Death' or preferably 'Death Wind', as I'm not sure if the 'of' would change the name. TomServo101 10:36, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

"Wind Death" is a literal translation of "Kazeshini". "Kaze" means wind and "Shini", as in Shinigami, means death. It doesn't have to make sense as it is the name of the zanpakuto. As a point of interest, Maximum7 translated Kazeshini as "wind reaper", which, if we are talking about making sense, does indeed make the most sense. So I am happy to go with their translation. Tinni 11:10, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I know. After all, how else do you explain 'Wolves ain't howl alone'? Wind Reaper...while I admit it sounds good, I think there'd be a few objections going back to the 'Shinigami vs Soul Reaper' argument. TomServo101 13:26, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Yup, I was thinking something close to what Tinni just said. So I was wondering if it's alright to change it to "Death Wind". Can I? -BlazingStar 06:26, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Absolutely not! That doesn't make any sense and is wrong, being that it just mangles the name. About the only thing I am willing to go along with is interpreting the "Shini" part of Kazeshini as "reaper" instead of "death". Tinni 07:49, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Well, I guess that depends on whether you want the literal translation or the supposed one. I can read some kanji, and I can tell you that it does literally say "wind" and "death". Of course, I'm not an admin, but I just wanted to state my opinion. I think that the literal translation is good, but if people have a problem with it not making sense, I wouldn't mind it changed.KnowledgeandImagination 06:48, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

Why do we want to change the name exactly? Most of the Zanpakuto names are literal translations. There is no reason for it not to be. It's just a name and names when Zanpakutos, techniques or even release command are suppose to be literal. There is no reason to change things. Tinni 07:26, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

I know next to nothing about how exactly the Japanese language works, but I know for a fact that "shini" does not in any way, shape, or form translate as "reaper." I don't see anything wrong with the translation "wind death," as it implies "death by wind." It makes no less sense than the names of other zanpakuto. Mohrpheus 20:28, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry that some of you dislike the literal translation, but that's not enough of a reason to change the article. Since the translators say "wind death" and that's what each part of the name means, then that's how it's going to stay in the article. Simple as that. Twocents 03:28, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Right Eye
Quote: "A long time ago I went to Earth on a mission and lost my right eye there", but in every picture, including a close up from the same chapter, both his eyes look perfectly fine. Should this be mentioned in the article? It had never been implied that Shuuhei couldn't see with his injured eye. What should we do about it? Should we guess that he said "lost" metaphorically? Lia Schiffer 20:46, December 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * It is a translation error by Sleepyfans, one of if not the most unreliable scanlation group (but usually one of the fastest, which is why onemanga use them, sadly). They are well known for making mistakes, and this is a rather big one. Here is another translation: . -- Yyp  (Talk)  21:07, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

on page 15 at the bottom it shows a terrible injury to his eye and during that flash back sequence they never show his eye, and in the present that eye has three scars running down it. i was discussing with other anal bleach fans of my acquaintance and we sort settled on, ok his eye was injured/lost and either over time or through the tech bureau he healed or got a new one. my opinion on it is we should keep that there till more information comes up, only because if you get clawed over your eye, you've pretty much lost your eye.Viperaspec 23:47, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

First, to remove any doubt - the picture is from the battles in Fake Karakura Town and he clearly still has two eyes. Second - any suggestion that he got it healed by the research bureau is pure speculation and is not to be added to the article. -- Yyp  (Talk)  10:46, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Portrait
Needs to be changed as it is very old. I am current going through the episodes looking for something fresher. But the current one has to go. It's not even a good angle! Tinni 08:44, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

What do people think of this picture? Tinni 08:47, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I went ahead and changed the picture just because I couldn't keep looking at that weird side profile of Hisagi's face any more. If you have a better one feel free to replace it. Tinni 13:05, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I approve of the picture. It's quite nice. Thanks Tinni! Twocents 13:48, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Id say thats pretty decent, also on a side note see about a more updated version of mayuri if you could.Salubri 15:41, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Trivia
would it be fair to say Hisagi is the first character in Bleach to kill a Captain/Former Captain? Nick D Wolfwood 16:48, December 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * It would be considered junk trivia and removed pretty quickly. -- Yyp  (Talk)  16:55, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Trivia Technicality
In the trivia section of this page, it is mentioned that Yamamoto does not consider or say that Shuhei's shikai is a double bladed shikai.

I would prefer this be taken down, as it would make sense that double bladed shikai are shikai that are formed from two blades in sealed form. This would mean that Kyoraku, for example, is included in this category, but not Shuhei. --Cold hard steel will eat your soul... 13:22, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

He mentioned Ukitake and Ukitake's zanpakuto in sealed for is just one blade. Tinni 13:30, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

I also think he shouldn't be considered a duel-type, as his zanpakutos sealed form is in the form of a single blade, unlike Jushiro, who has two sealed zanpakuto.

Please don't make me endlessly repeat myself. The ONLY person who has two swords at all times is Kyoraku Shunsui. Ukitake Juushiro has a single katana in his sealed state but twin katana in shikai. Similarly Hisagi has a single katana in his sealed state and when in shikai he has twin doubled bladed Kusarigama. The only technicality here is that Hisagi has Kusarigama weapons while Kyoraku and Ukitake have twin katanas. There is nothing to discuss here. Tinni 17:03, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry. I originally thought he had two. My mistake. AlbertWeskerpwnsChrisRedfield 02:37, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

i dont think it should be there with only because yamamoto talks about the zanpakutou being pairs, and shuheis weapon is not a katana nor a sword, its a kusarigama, a weird one certainly but still a kusarigama, so its not paired weapons. its one chain with blade ends. and making the argument that ukitakes weapon has the same thing going is not correct because his is separate swords connected by a charm rope, whereas kazeshini is primarily a chain weapon.Viperaspec 23:38, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! Shuhei's Kusagrima is a TWO-BLADED KUSARIGAMA(I wish I could bold that more!!!!!!!!!!) Viper & EVERYBODY ELSE if u knew what u were talking about u would know the Kusarigama come as SINGLE WEAPONS connected via a chain to the users body or the chain is used for swinging and throwing attacks. YET Shuhei's is two Kusarigama connected by a chain. DUAL MEANS TWO PEOPLE!!!!! Enough of this. It is a DUAL-TYPE ZANPAKUTO! Minato 23:50, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

No offense, but Yamamoto described them as "dual-bladed" zanpakuto, not as "dual-type" zanpakuto. Strictly speaking, Shunsui and Ukitake's weapons take the form of swords in their released form, leading me to believe that that was what Yama was referring to. Shuhei's shikai is not a sword, as Minato said, it is a kusarigama, which in total, has more than two blades. It would be unwise and somewhat speculative to call them such, since Yama said that there are only two in all of Soul Society. And why would he be wrong? Mohrpheus 23:59, December 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ah, so thats it. I was wondering why Yamamoto would make a mistake. For anyone who is interested here is a link to a pic of a Pair of Kusarigama(Single Ones Not Connected Via a chain). . Stille, Dual-Bladed can fall into the category Dual-Type, but not the other way around. SO!!!!!, we leave it as Dual-Type Zanpakuto: Shunsui Kyoraku, Jushiro Ukitake, and Shuhei Hisagi. Any questions? Minato 00:07, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

That's the problem. "Dual-Type" isn't a canonical type, Yamamoto identified "Dual-Blade," which would technically be the real subtype since it can actually be cited. My problem is that: 1) Kazeshini was never explicitly stated to be a Dual-Blade zanpakuto by any character, and 2) Dual-Type zanpakuto do not exist, because the term cannot be cited. Mohrpheus 00:12, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * AHH!!!! "sigh" Mohrpheus, u r right. Dual-Type isn't a real type of weapon. And in Shuhei's weapon is a four-bladed weapon. Funny, its a Dual-Dual-Type "LOL". In the English version they said just Dual-Zanpakuto. Maybe we can us that instead of Dual-Type. Technically all three would fall under that. The reason is that if Shuhei's Zanpakuto gets removed from the Dual-Bladed type section then we would have to make a category for just him as Kazeshini is unique. And I don't want to do that. Minato 00:28, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

To be honest we should face facts and remember the comment made by yamamoto was made waaaay before Kazeshini was seen released. i'm sure we could start a thousand new arguments about hypocrisies and plotholes. You can speculate over the technicalities of what the Captain Commander said but in the end it boils down to him reffering to the fact that there were two released zanpaktou that exist as two sperate weapons, all before somebody decided that Hisagi would look awesome with two double bladed inverted sythes..... which he totally does! Nick D Wolfwood 13:52, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Just throwing this in. We can assume that Yama never seen Shuhei's released zanpakuto. AlbertWeskerpwnsChrisRedfield 04:10, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Firstly to Nick D Wolfwood, we cannot use out of universe explanation. That may well be the real explanation but Kubo can always say something to make the two facts reconcile. In fact, I suspect that's exactly what he did when he made the materialized zanpakuto for Kazeshini a single spirit while both Kyoraku and Ukitake had twin spirits. Secondly to AlbertWeskerpwnsChrisRedfield, no we cannot assume that because Vice-captains also have to sit a special examination. We do not know whether or not Yamamoto presides over those exams as well. He may well, given that Vice-captains hold and important position and end-up in default control of a division should something happen to the captain. As we cannot be sure that Yamamoto does not preside over vice-captains exams, we cannot say Yamamoto did not know about Hisaig's shikai. Visibly Hisagi has shikai has double blades and it is a fact that Yamamoto did not mention his zanpakuto when talking about double bladed zanpakutos. What criteria Yamamoto used to differentiate the zanpakutos of Ukitake and Kyoraku are up for debate but visibly, Hisagi's shikai does fall under the double bladed zanpakuto category. I am closing this discussion as there really is nothing left to talk about. Tinni  (Talk)  04:39, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Endurance
I am wondering if there is any scope within the article to mention is endurance. I mean, he got up after sustaining injuries from Allon. Then survived being slashed and stabbed by Tosen and still managed to flash step onto Tosen's head and drive his zanpakuto through Tosen and still had enough reiatsu left to release shikai. That's quite a feet. So I am wondering if that can be worked into his article somehow, assuming other think it is worth working in. Tinni 15:53, December 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Uhm... well I don't see y we couldn't add an enhanced durability section. While not as much of him has been seen as some others he has shown to be very durable and enduring. If its okay with an Admin, then its fine. Minato  (Talk)  19:10, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

While adding a quote, I noticed that Matsumoto has a enhanced endurance section in her powers and ability section. So I am in favour of adding one for Hisagi as well. However, I am struggling with the wording. I haven't added anything yet but what do people think of the lines below? Tinni 15:32, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Enhanced Endurance: Hisagi has demonstrated a high level of endurance. He was able to engage Tōsen in battle after sustaining heavy injuries from Allon. He also endured first being slashed and then subsequently stabbed by Tōsen, before dealing the final blow to Tōsen.


 * Looking at a few other characters powers sections, durability seems to be used, rather than endurance. But yeah, I think it can be added, so long as a reference is used. -- Yyp  (Talk)  16:49, December 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen other pages with a "enhanced endurance" section, except for Ichigo's page, which is labeled immense endurance. Of course then again I haven't exactly gone looking for "endurance" and "durability" section, but like Yyp said most r durability. I don't kno which is correct, but it would be best to ask Salubri as he is the expert in the terms and how they should be listed. Minato  (Talk)  21:53, December 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't like durability. Robots have durability, vehicles have durability. Living things have endurance. I think if most say durability that's something we need to change and bring all the articles into line under endurance. Anyway, I am not in any hurry to add this just because I am still iffy with the wording. I am trying to think of a way to convey truthfully the level of Hisagi's endurance without speculation. I mean, it's not like Hisagi got up straight after being crushed by Allon to fight Tosen. He had been brought to Kira and probably received healing and had something of a rest before he got upto fight. But trying to explain too much leads to a bulky paragraph and speculation but not explaining gives and erroneous view of events because it makes it appear as if Hisagi can just brush off his injuries. Which he can't. I wouldn't be surprised if he keels over and dies next chapter, having pushed himself past his limit. Tinni 12:11, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Well someone jumped ahead of me and added an enhanced durability section. It seems good enough. Lacking reference but good enough. I am satisfied. Although I am still not sure why we are not calling it endurance. Tinni 13:24, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

tosen's death


if you look closely he didn't carved the sword on the head but on his neck. then the blade of the released state went through his mouth

Shiny-gami 18:46, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, we already went through this on other talk pages. Tosen's dead unless Kubo proves otherwise in the future. Arrancar109 (Talk)  19:24, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Tosen's death 2
that's not what i meant

the articles tosen and hisagi says "stabbed in the head" but he was stabbed in the neck/spine that's all Shiny-gami 17:52, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Just to bring this issue back to light, Shiny is correct. It is clearly stated after Tosen reverts to his original form that his neck was injured. It is also visible in the pic of him standing on Tosen's back, where we can see that the pole part of Kazeshini is going through his neck - then the blade shot through his jaw, presumably. In other words, missing his brain entirely. Mohrpheus 04:21, January 19, 2010 (UTC)