Talk:Izuru Kira

Zanpakuto Description
Does the zanpakuto section really require that long mathematical example? Mentioning that Wabisuke doubles weight is easy enough to understand - taking up half of the section with a winding example is completely unnecessary. Mohrpheus 00:23, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. It should be shortened & there are some mistakes in the article. I will begin editing this section shortly, though u can go ahead if u want(but think carefully on how u edit it). Minato88 00:26, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

It does sort of illustrate how effectively Kira uses its ability though. There had to have been some debate for it to appear in an article in a first place too. --Licourtrix 00:40, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I tried to remove it a long while back, and the only justification for it being reverted by an admin at the time was that "I was removing a large portion of the section." Not to mention that it is more descriptive of Izuru's strategy in battle. Otherwise it could warrant a part in every zanpakuto section describing how it is used in battle. Mohrpheus 00:45, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

To a degree there is a similar section for most zanpakuto, especially Renji. I agree its long winded but if you think "cumulatively increases the weight of whatever it strikes" is sufficient I'm not gonna try to revert it.--Licourtrix 00:49, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Please do not remove that description. Kira himself provides it when he fights Matsumoto. Therefore, he clearly feels that it is necessary for people to properly understand how awesome his zanpakuto is. So please just leave it in there. Thank you. Tinni 00:53, November 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * PS. I will revert any removal. Tinni 00:53, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but the wiki's purpose is to summarize information, not give it word-for-word straight from the character's mouth. If his description is truly that important, then it belongs in the quote section. Mohrpheus 00:55, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

@ Morpheus & Licourtrix. I didn't say to remove anything. There are some things that has been stated twice & incorrectly & I think I can shorten it. Give me some time to look it over, cause I want to think about how it should be changed. Minato88 00:58, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Apologies. I should have been more specific - I don't want it removed, I just want it to be replaced with something a little more concise. Mohrpheus 01:00, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I am not even sure why you are making such a big deal out of this. The description through example is usually the best way to explain something like this. The section can be shortened because we really don't need it to go upto 320 Ibs. It can very well stop around 80 Ibs. But the example is a good one and contribute towards ease of understanding. Tinni 01:03, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Like I said, it was really just the length of the example that was bugging me. I have no qualms about it being shortened. I just didn't want to edit it myself this time. Mohrpheus 01:07, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I've got my idea & I will begin editing. Tinni u can monitor my change & if u don't like it u can just undo it. I want to make this just one change so for the next 5 minutes please don't edit anything on Izurus page. Thank u. Minato88 01:09, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I think it looks perfectly acceptable now. Mohrpheus 01:22, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

It look good. Great job. Tinni 01:44, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Zanpakuto translation
Wabisuke (侘助; roughly "Miserable Man," translated in the English manga as "the penitent one")

There are multiple possible translations given but we only need one and the most accurate would be the best. Salubri (Talk)  19:18, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Wabisuke

This is an especially troublesome name. The element wabi is spelled with 侘 which can mean "(be) proud" (though mostly when read hokoru) but also "(be) lonely, wretched"--perhaps a not-unfamiliar-to-English notion of excessive pride leading to haughtiness and so alienation of others?--but wabiru "be worried, (ag)grieved; pine for" and wabishii "wretched, lonesome, comfortless" is usually written with the similar kanji 佗. A third, but again different kanji that can read wabi, 詫, means "apology, excuse."

The suffix -suke 助, apparently signifying "aide, one who helps," is frequent in masculine given names, including Ki suke Urahara (although Sou suke Aizen spells this element with the alternate kanji 介 "medium" to give a sense, I suppose, "one who helps as though a mediator"). However, I think the sense "aide" for -suke should be downplayed, even as I do the sense "full, whole" for -maru, as the full signifance of their meanings has seemingly been worn down by use as such common suffixes--even as -ful "full" in beautiful etc. has been watered down to mean "thing with beauty" instead of "thing full of beauty."

Thus, I would translate "(the) wretched" or "(the) wretched one." This takes into account the actual kanji used in the name, the most frequent meaning of these closely-intertwined (and so oft confused) words read with wabi-, and the semantic weakening of -suke as a kind of adjective-nominalizer. It even still well relates to Kira's release call for Wabisuke, "lift (up) your face," as one can easily picture a wretched or forlorn person fallen on their face, their head bowed to the ground, in their grief or remorse. Adam Restling 06:51, January 19, 2010 (UTC)