Talk:Sternritter

Bazz and the other two defectors status
Who put that Bazz-B, Lilleto and Giselle were dead? We have no proof of that yet. Isn't that speculative at this point?


 * You provide no proof of them being alive. This is the last arc, speculative is assuming someone is alive simply cause you want them to be. The reality with this arc is alot of people are either dead or missing and with no confirmation coming in the direct stated form because why would it, in fact thats not even a concept that is common in bleach. By the notion you want us to go by we might as well say most of the espada are alive as well. Gin too maybe Unohana. In this instance we have characters (yhwach and hashwalth) that suffer no problem with killing their own if they fail (in fact the point is for virtually everyone to die for him) and in this case they committed treason by attacking their superiors with the intent to kill them. Also to the very point that everyones death serves to further empower Yhwach.--

I will freely admit that I have no proof that they are alive, and I'm not trying to argue the point. However, a similar case is that of Lille. With the end of chapter 653, we could say that Lille is dead. However, we haven't, as saying that would be speculative until the next chapter comes out. We know that Haschwalth dealt Bazz-B a severe blow, as Yhwach dealt grievous injuries to Liltotto and Giselle. However, nobody has expressly said they are dead, so I just thought that that should be taken into consideration. Sorry if I seem confrontational, I'm just trying to defend my point.


 * Alright, I figure this sort of topic has popped up frequently enough that we may as well post a catch-all answer to it now for posterity. In Bleach, we do not often get explicit confirmation of characters dying: very frequently, they are left with severe/mortal injuries and the focus shifts to another battle, or something like that. I wish that it did what JoJo does, aka providing a status report at the end of each battle (who has been injured beyond the point of recovery and who is dead), but unfortunately this is not the case, so we are left to extrapolate a given character's status based on what we know about their injuries and their opponent. While this arc was ongoing, we've had to do this multiple times - sometimes changing statuses back to alive, other times leaving them be, based on evidence from later chapters. Why? Because we work with what we know, and there's no harm in listing someone who's taken a ridiculous beating and been left for dead as dead until proven otherwise. Now, let's look at these three Sternritter. Bazz-B fought Haschwalth, a no-nonsense guy who had every intention of defending Yhwach, and was left bleeding out with a missing arm and a massive cut in his chest. Meanwhile, Liltotto and Giselle fought Yhwach himself, a guy who is renowned for not sparing subordinates or punishing them lightly, and took serious enough injuries to drop them. In both these scenarios, the deceased were faced with very powerful opponents and suffered grave injuries - Bazz-B even got a flashback/development arc, which is in itself a flag of death for shonen characters a lot of the time. You would need to provide proof from the chapters we have that they are in fact alive for us to remove the deceased category. If, in the future, one or more of them is revealed to be alive, that's fine, it's an easy change - but until then, we work with what we've got.


 * Hope that explains it.--Xilinoc (talk) 01:58, December 1, 2015 (UTC)

More or less, Xilinoc. I'm sorry to bring this up, considering from your statement that this is a common thread on the wiki, I just wanted to make my concerns known. But I have made them quite clear now, and so I can leave this topic alone and not bring it up again. I hope I didn't annoy anybody too much. Thank you!