Talk:Hohō

Why?
Why is this list incomplete? I'll put the names of those who are not here, which I will be referring from their very own pages. Just make the necessary changes if I will make any mistakes. --Agate genbu 11:53, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Hohō vs. Shunpo
I'm really tempted to change Hohō to Shunpo everytime I see it in an article. Literally no one calls it Hohō. The specific technique used literally every time is Shunpo. It would be like calling every bakudo and hado spell "Kidō", without saying what spell it was. CorpusDei 04:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Just wanted to address this before I closed this off. Shunpo is not the only hoho technique and both Byakuya and Yoruichi have used non-Shunpo Hoho techniques. Besides which, "footwork" was called hoho in the manga. So this complaint is without basis. Tinni  (Talk)  00:36, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo's Ranking
Bankai Ichigo is faster than Bankai Byakuya, so how can Byakuya be considered a master at Hohō? Either Ichigo and Byakuya are both masters, or they're both Experts. I'd say they're both masters, but what do I know? CorpusDei 04:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo isn't even on the list anywhere. I'd say he should be up there with the "masters", especially with his bankai/hollow mask (although he's fast without those as well. He also subconsciously stood on air when he was fighting Inoue's brother Sora/Acidwire. I moved Hanatarou up from no skill to...practitioner, I do believe, since he can use shunpo, as seen when he and Byakuya are traveling to Hueco Mundo. It's just that he's slow.

The point is being missed without Bankai Ichigo is just an expert. Not only that even with bankai he is not knowledgeable in the various techniques of Shunpo as Byakuya is. This entire listing is based on what they are at basic levels and what skills they actually have. Not according to how fast they get in bankai. Also Hantaroru has stated he is no good a shunpo, and he in fact runs everywhere cause he can't even keep up with Shunpo users.Salubri 04:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Does slow = no skill
Alright, point taken on Ichigo. However, even though Hanatarou is slow, he can still use it, unlike Yachiru and Kenpachi (except for the 1st movie). Perhaps the text under the "No Skill" section should be changed to include something along the lines of "...possess little to no skill..." --Watchmaker163 04:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Lets put it to rest Chapter 300 page 3 Hantarou actually says he doesn't know shunpo. Salubri 04:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Meh, alright. The translation I read was different, and I thought he was using shunpo. Watchmaker163 05:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Yachiru
I thought Yachiru could use shunpo. She's extremely fast isn't she? Tinni 13:32, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually if you notice she never is shown using it, at most she is really fast like zaraki but not as fast to use shunpo.Salubri 15:07, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I thought she did use shunpo to stand on Ichigo's shoulder when they first met (http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/bleach/1/104/5) but she could have just jumped. She did run to Rukia's execution and didn't shunpo. So I guess at this stage it's probably safest to say neither she nor Kenpachi can shunpo (although as pointed out Kenpachi did use shunpo in the movie). We'll just have to wait to see her do some actual fighting before it's confirmed whether or not she can shunpo. Tinni 04:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * As for now there really is not much info on her fighting powers. Whether she can, or cannot use shunpo is still unknown. All we can say is she has never been seen using shunpo. As we know the other three of the top four members of the Division (Zaraki, Ikkaku and Yumichika) use have a way of devilitate themselves, so when we see her fight or when someone actually says she can't do it then we'll know for sure. WhiteStrike 04:22, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd take yachiru out of the whole list since parcticly nothing is known of her abilities (accept that she can run like crazy) ,but it could be either or... so removing her now is not (in my opinion) a really bad thing! --Cyberflame 13:09, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Yachiru is seen to flash step onto Kenpachi's shoulders at the end of episode 98 of the anime, after she bows to the defeated Ichinose Gmanzap24 12:18, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Ok right now this has reached the point of ridiculous. Yachiru was clearly using Shunpo in the resent anime episode (245). Yes I am aware it's a filler episode but we aren't talking about a fancy new technique or anything. We are talking about a basic technique all shinigami are suppose to have. I saw that err on the side of caution in this case is to list her as being a Practitioners until we are explicitly told otherwise, like in the case of Hanataro - who came out and said he didn't know shunpo. Alternatively, drop her from the list because right now it's giving the impression that we know she can't do it and we don't. Indeed, all evidence of "official but not Kubo" sources says she can. Tinni 04:08, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I have taken Yachiru off the list of "people who haven't learnt shunpo" because frankly that's speculation as well, especially in light of the anime. The current anime arc might be filler but it is still an official enough source that we can't rightly leave Yachiru on the list any more. I propose that we not comment on Yachiru's hoho abilities at all until we see something in the Manga. That is the course of least error at the present point in time. Tinni 02:45, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

I'm fine with that. I'd rather err on the side of caution than speculate needlessly. Twocents 03:41, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

In line with the new anime policy, Yachiru Kusajishi has been added to the list of Hoho practiciners. Tinni  (Talk)  00:11, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Kenpachi
I was just curious if anyone noticed Zaraki using shunpo in ep199 while fighting Nnoitra, does this technically count, since the fight was in the manga and we can clearly see him doing it? AuronValentine 19:02, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Not sure that counts since it's not in the manga and i think it was mentioned there that he doesn't use most of the shinigami skills.--SalmanH 13:17, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

In line with our new anime policy, I have removed Kenpachi's name from the "doesn't know hoho" skill. However, I have no added him to "practices hoho list" because while he knows it, he can't really be said to be a practiciner due to how seldom he uses it. I am closing this topic off until we learn more. Tinni  (Talk)  00:36, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Marechiyo Ōmaeda
Why is he an expert i mean come on ikkaku and yumichika are put on bproficient and ur telling me Marechiyo Ōmaeda can keep up with people like love and rose who were former captains and have hollow masks?

I don't believe we've ever had solid information on what exactly his limits are, except that he can outrun Nirgge, and for all we know that wasn't his fastest. Besides, he wouldn't be in such a high position in the O-Kudo if he wasn't suitably proficient in it. TomServo101 23:28, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Once again! Hoho skill level is based on knowledge and skill level. As a member of a the omnitsukido, Omaeda is highly skilled and knowledgeable in the art of hoho. That is why he is ranked what he is. Tinni  (Talk)  00:36, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

But it clearly says that omaeda is a liutenant only because he has a rich family and he wanted the position of liutenant?


 * You are mistaken. It does not clearly say anywhere the Omaeda is a lieutenant because of his families connections. His family is rich and that allows him to spend money improving his divisions headquarters and hiring a personal secretary etc, etc. It does NOT mean he can buy himself into the position of Soifon's Vice-captaion OR the Captain of the Omnitsukido patrol unit. I might also add that both these positions are highly dangerous and that if Omaeda wasn't any good. He would be dead by now. Marechiyo Ōmaeda is a skilled lieutenant and chief among his skills is hoho, the speciality of his division and the omnitsukido. Tinni   (Talk)  04:51, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

He has connections but he has to be able to survive in the division and the special forces. He is a proven lieutenant, despite your or anyone's personal feelings for him, thats not what is used to determine whether he is capable he expressly states that he is proficient in that chapter where he shows his skill in the fake karakura town arc, despite his inept attitude in most things.Salubri (Talk)  02:39, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Walking in air speculation
"Though never stated clearly it most likely relates to the Shinigami ability to walk on air using spiritual power. By collecting and solidifying Reishi beneath their feet, Shinigami can gain traction on thin air to either freely move about or to stop themselves from falling. "

I just removed the above from the article. We do not allow sentences with "most likely" in them in other pages, I don't see why we have to allow it in this article. If it was never made clear whether the whole "walking in air" thing was Hoho related, then we simply don't put it in here. Alternatively, we find a way to state this without using the phrase "most likely". Tinni  (Talk)  00:22, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

clones
Adding to the list of techniques under Hoho. Should not the technique that Soi Fon uses against Sosuke Aizen be included; this technique being the one where she makes several clones of herself?

On that account, should Sonido Gemelos also be added to list of these techniqes?

Evil 1 (talk) 18:51, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

As the clone technique was not named, or specifically identified as Hoho, we'll refrain from including it until we get further clarification in the form of a databook or something. As for Sonido and Gemelos, we just finished explunging Arrancar and Espada from the Zanjutsu article and the reason for that is that Hoho, Hakuda, Kido and Zanjutsu are Shinigami skills. We will not be including Arrancar/Hollow skills in these articles. Tinni  (Talk)  19:09, January 8, 2011 (UTC)