Talk:Bleach: Can't Fear Your Own World

Synopsis
Is there a reason the Synopsis has a chapter one section that ends with an incomplete sentence? Either you summarize the chapters or you remove the section altogether. I know Bleach is gone, but lets not use that as an excuse for sub-par work on here.

This is what I am seeing "Nel and Grimmjow bust in the Soul Kings palace to see Ichibē Hyōsube. Who sees Grimmjow and " Umishiru (talk) 21:51, June 29, 2018 (UTC)


 * I agree that is very poor work on the article. Personally I have no interest in the Novels and they are not released in English so it's not work I am going to be seeking out. The translations online are pretty poor and basic sadly so I wouldn't use those. I have removed the Chapter 1 section. Its welcome to be added back along with the others sections by anyone who can write it comprehensively and properly.

Fleshing Page Out A (Little) Bit
In the interests of getting some movement on this page while there might be some appetite for it out there, I suggest a list of characters that appear in both volume 1 and 2 (when its out) be drawn up. I don't think there could be any translation issues getting in the way of that, just needs someone to go through the book/scans that are out there and pull a list together. 14:04, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * That's a good idea, since I love the story and its reveals so far, but I have two questions. What would you prefer as (easy accessible) reference material? By that I mean where do you prefer any official scans come from, since I follow the story through the reddit translators and all. Secondly, there are some original characters introduced in the book (Hikone, Tokinada, Aura...) that are very significant to its plot. How should we do that, since it might be more difficult to find them. Timjer (talk) 16:32, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it was agreed that given we can't do page numbers as usual, because of the nature of the translations, that Chapter numbers would work. In regards to the new characters we could do pages for the like Ganju's Gang or List of Tōjū only focused on characters from that novel but would need admin consensus on that.
 * I'd go along with that Sun. Per whats said about the translations, we're unlikely to be able to do extensive pages on them, so grouping them together like that seems the best way. 19:44, October 11, 2018 (UTC)
 * I have another idea, actually. If a list of characters is allowed, as well as a seperate page grouping together the novel charcters, how about adding a bullet list of "major events" or "major reveals" or something? Even if we can't do a full summary (yet, I really hope they'll get a western release), I think it'd be good for new visitors to at least have some idea of what the novels are about. And even if their canon status is debatable, at least those people can determine if they want to add anything to their own headcanon. Of course, I'll await admin consensus before doing anything.
 * I already have some ideas, such as Yhwach = New Soul King, Yoruichi's Zanpakuto, Gremmy's nature, Noble Families' ancestral Zanpakutos, etc... And who knows, maybe we can eventually, finally add Hisagi and Shinji's Bankai to it as well.Timjer (talk) 19:56, October 11, 2018 (UTC)

Volunteering for summary
I'll just get straight to the point here. I have enough free time, I'm interested in the novel, I've been following it's translations for some time, and I consider myself decent enough at writing summaries. If you don't mind, I'd like to try and add them here. All I need to know is how you'd prefer I do it. For example, references. Where should I link the references for everything to? Page numbers or something? 'Cause I'm not sure if I have easy access to each page, as I don't have the books themselves, just access to the translations. I'll await your response and if you'd like to know more, I'd be happy to answer. Timjer (talk) 14:18, February 6, 2019 (UTC)


 * Oh, and if you'd like an idea of what my summaries are like, I'd like to direct you to the Monster Musume wiki where I'm pretty active (don't judge). Some decent examples of chapters that I've written complete summaries for are Chapter 31, Chapter 41, Chapter 47, Chapter 55, & Chapter 56. Timjer (talk) 14:28, February 6, 2019 (UTC)


 * See the references are tricky but I am pretty sure we settled on Chapter numbers for the references to make it easier because the translations are amateur and don't list each page. The Bleach Wiki:Manual of Style should help you in how we write in-universe for the plot sections (none of "It is revealed" because it suggests the book revealed). IT's very kind of you to suggest helping out if you have the time. Our regular contributors here don't really have interest in the novels and as this is voluntary its not fair to expect people to spend their time doing things they do not enjoy.


 * Alright, I'll check the manual of style and try to do my very best. Just one more question for now: what would you prefer? That I write the entire thing on my computer first and then copy-paste it all, or that I write and add it chapter per chapter here? Timjer (talk) 14:50, February 6, 2019 (UTC)


 * Well its up to you so long as you aren't adding multiple edits in a row quite quickly you should be fine. Of course there are errors and such that might need to fix but I mean like say if someone had the chapters already and would post each one individually right after one another like minutes apart. Personally I try to do it all in as few edits as possible but that's me. I will have a wee look when I get a chance. Everyone edits differently, but just try not to do too many if its not needed like say whatever work do one day and then next and such. Some of us also use like our own test wikis to copy from but either or. Thanks for making this effort.


 * So just having a look good so far, now I'm not the best at spotting mistakes just because I be on strong pain killers but so far I think done well in-universe. Xil heads Grammar Corner which was designed to help proof read so don't worry too much about spellings. Would just say if using same chapter reference multiple times, which we do for using anime references for episodes, use a  tag and that way one can be put at the end of each paragraph, using and thats all that is needed after the first one. Probably didn't explain that right but you can see what I added here. I removed the scroll bar just for now until work out the layout as not sure if the short summary at the top is needed. Will chat with the dudes on that one but so far thanks :)


 * To elaborate on what Sun said above, if, somehow, you can reference by page number(s) that would be great; if not, I totally understand, just go for chapter numbers. Also, we don't really have precedent for what a novel summary should look like and be formatted as on here (since, well, no one's bothered to put in a summary for ANY of them before) and I don't know if you've ever written one on another wiki, but I think a section for each chapter as we did for this game's story mode would work fine. Many thanks for volunteering to work on this, I was eyeing doing it at some point but I've got a million other things I want to hit first on here and I don't have ready access to a translation.--Xilinoc (talk) 17:44, February 6, 2019 (UTC)


 * Xilinoc, that's actually a very good suggestion for structuring it, I think I'll use it. However, considering how long the first half of the prologue of the first book seems to be, I think that it might be best if we consider putting each of the three CFYOW books on their own page. But I suppose we'll cross that bridge when we get there, and even if I work extra hard on this, it might still take enough time to make a decision. Timjer (talk) 17:52, February 6, 2019 (UTC)


 * That should be fine, the admin/mod team is all about reducing page length where applicable (e.g. Ichigo's page). I guess for now, write up the summary for the first book (and no pressure! I know how long it takes to write a good summary when factoring in real-life stuff like work and school, so take as long as you need) and we'll evaluate whether or not more pages are needed once you're done. Also, I don't know if the book has a 1:1 ratio of chapters to sketches, but feel free to use the latter in the chapter summaries where applicable - illustration is always a plus when it comes to summaries.--Xilinoc (talk) 18:07, February 6, 2019 (UTC)


 * Timjer, thank you so much for taking this on, I honestly didn't think anyone would be willing to put in the time but Im very glad you are doing this and I know lots of others are too. What you've done so far looks good. The only advise I'd add to what Sun and Xil said is try not to get bogged down in specifics given that these are unofficial translations and the length of the book. Just make sure you get the general idea of it. We'll worry about splitting the page up / trimming the length later. Thank you again. 22:02, February 6, 2019 (UTC)


 * Happy to help. While I was indeed afraid I might be making the summary a bit too detailed, my reasoning was that it's better to have too much details that can still be trimmed away later on than too few. But I'll try to go into less detail from now on. The problem is just that it's not always clear which details are important the overall plot and which ones aren't. At any rate, it's getting late here, so I probably won't be able to respond to any more until tomorrow. Timjer (talk) 22:11, February 6, 2019 (UTC)


 * Thats fine Timjer, you can carry on like that. When you get in to the second half of it it will probably be clear by then what details are more important and it can be trimmed afterward if need be. Keep up the good work. 22:23, February 6, 2019 (UTC)

Yes it can be difficult to trim sometimes. I am a bit like that myself that I put more in and then see what can be trimmed out without the story losing its focus. We do text reductions here, hasn't been one in a while because not much new information outside novels, but it is something many of us have done to our work so I wouldn't be against you doing what you need to, as you are the only person doing this work and then address trimming later if it stresses you out to much. Thanks again. (reset the indent for convo because getting a bit over to edge)

Top of Page Notice
Since these are unofficial translations I think we should put a notice at top saying as much. I dont mean to in any way diminish the work of the people who have translated it, its just that we don't know the quality/reliability of them as we haven't worked with them before. So I think a disclaimer that the translations are unofficial would cover that. 22:02, February 6, 2019 (UTC)
 * See can be argued we use a lot of unofficial translations compared to say Viz or such but I am in agreement here. This is because, I have seen some people say one thing happened and then someone says it doesn't so it does make it very difficult to say for sure.
 * Yeah, it occurred to me as I was writing that that while our translation corner is something we know and trust, it is unofficial as well. But I think in this instance as people are trying to use the translations to say what happened rather than debating the correct way of translating a technique name etc its the way to go. And as you say it would let people know there is room for errors / contradictions in it. 22:23, February 6, 2019 (UTC)
 * Since I'm the one writing it, I'll just say that I also support this. Even if it's only to lessen my responsiblity if anyone complains about any translation errors. Timjer (talk) 13:41, February 9, 2019 (UTC)
 * So, is this still going to happen? I mean, I would put the disclaimer there myself, but I'm honestly not sure how to do it. Or if I even have permission. Timjer (talk) 07:31, April 15, 2019 (UTC)
 * I've made and added a disclaimer. 22:04, April 17, 2019 (UTC)

Splitting page
Considering my summary of the second volume is slowly reaching the end, I wanted to ask something. The entire page is obviously getting rather long and full, so is there a plan to split it up into 3 separate pieces or something? Or are we just going to collapse the individual sections like we tend to do with filler summaries? Timjer (talk) 09:54, May 15, 2019 (UTC)


 * Hmm because its a novel I am assuming thats why its so long. I would be for if maybe we split it into Tabs like Volume 1/Volume 2 etc etc. Collapsing also works of course too. Will say to the guys to weigh in.


 * Looking at the length of it, I think its probably best to split it across three tabs. Theres more than enough there to justify each of the three books having their own page but tabs would work better imo. 11:25, May 15, 2019 (UTC)


 * Supporting the tabs idea as well.--Xilinoc (talk) 22:54, May 15, 2019 (UTC)

On that note, do we know how many chapters there are in volume 3 (and any left to add in volume 2)? Trying to get a sense of just how big it is going to be. 21:16, May 18, 2019 (UTC)


 * Well, for Volume 2 there seem to be only 3 chapters left (though 15 is only halfway done), as it is the biggest one afaik. Volume 3, well, that's complicated. For some reason the translator who'se work I'm following changes ordering format there (and is not fully finished yet), so I can't say for sure. I'll have to check some other way. It does seem to have less pages than Volume 2 does. In any case, if you want to know, I use this reddit post, which provides links and key notes, to help keep things in order. Timjer (talk) 08:08, May 19, 2019 (UTC)

Ive split the page into its 3 volumes and left this page as an overview/summary of the series. I dont know if its my tiredness or what but I really, really, really despise that tab template all of a sudden. Page titles were ridiculously long and repeating themselves so I ended up turning the subpages into proper pages. It needs a new template to make it work like we had imagined it. I'll see what I can do about it during the week. 22:38, June 11, 2019 (UTC)
 * Well that was the biggest pain in the neck but its sorted now. 12:05, June 12, 2019 (UTC)

Info Placement
Is there any particular reason why certain things from this series hasn't been posted on other pages, such as Shinji's and Shuhei's Bankai or the lack of pages for characters that originate from this series? --Fox Boss (talk) 21:54, May 21, 2019 (UTC)


 * Hey there, in future please take posts like this to relevant pages or forums. Talk pages are meant to be about discussion of the actual article the talk page is attached to and specifically it's improvement. But for help this will help explain things. Closing discussion that is not about the Article that is being filled by Timjer, thanks dude as always.

Canon status - Kubo's name in writing credits.
So, as I already told Xilinoc (who told me to post it here now that the forums are gone), since I have my own physical copies of CFYOW 1 & 2 now, I took a good look at the credits and believe it or not, Kubo is literally listed as the author besides Narita. I even made a screenshot with my phone of the credits section. Now, since afaik the argument the wiki made for decanonzing CFYOW is that "Kubo didn't write it", I really feel like this should be brought back up to discussion. While I admit I don't have the original japanese version of the novel (and quite frankly I don't plan on spending money on it, sorry) I do feel like pointing out that it's likely not some liberty with the translation. I do believe that if Kubo is listed in the official credits as one of the two authors, he very well is one. Timjer (talk) 18:05, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I mean him as a co-writer is basically an executive producer credit. Just because Stan Lee had a producer credit, didn’t mean he wrote any of the marvel movies when he was alive. Unless Kubo says in an interview “yes I told Narita this was okay to write and it is approved canon,” there’s really no way to be 100% sure 18:52, 1 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I have to disagree with that, Lemurs; because a separate, earlier section also literally says "Original story by TITE KUBO", and then afterwards it also lists him as co-writer of this novel alongside Narita. While I'm sure Narita did most of the actual writing, it does seem like he couldn't have written anything that Kubo didn't want to put in. Timjer (talk) 18:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Its still not different to "based on characters created by Stan Lee" and the "Executively Produced by Stan Lee". I have known about this credit from the beginning and its never swayed me. Kubo contributed with sketches and as he is a Mangaka, that is contributing to the story but the author is Narita. Its clear from the style of story telling to how he uses those characters.


 * Alright, I only intended to point out the exact wording of the credits, I didn't know you had already heard of it. While I honestly disagree with your reasoning on this (as it seems to be the best proof we'll ever have), I'm not forcing the issue. I presented the facts and my interpretation of them so they can be discussed, and with that my part on this topic is done afaik. P.S.: Having rereading this I realize it might come across as cold or offended, but I swear it's not! Timjer (talk) 20:34, 1 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I agree with Timjer on this. Also, there's an interview with Makoto Matsubara -- author of Bleach: WE DO knot ALWAYS LOVE YOU -- where he talks about a meeting he and Ryohgo had with Kubo, who was working on CFYOW during this time. In it, Matsubara talks briefly about needing to seek confirmation from Kubo, and that the stories expanded based on the feedback Kubo gave them. Another interview -- iirc it was from JET -- that states Kubo went into great detail regarding the lore. This shows that Kubo had full control of the content both authors used. There's more than enough evidence pointing to Kubo having a more direct involvement in these novels than him merely providing illustrations and designing two Bankai. When it was announced internally that the manga was coming to an end the novel project was launched -- also covered in an interview. Kubo was involved from the start. As Timjer said above, we'll likely not get direct confirmation in the form of "THESE ARE CANON". But at this point there's more evidence supporting the canon argument. Kenji-Taichō (Talk)  21:22, 1 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but what's the status of this discussion now? Is it resolved or not yet? Because, again, I'd like to point out that this is probably the best evidence we're ever going to get, and IMO it's pretty good evidence. Timjer (talk) 10:12, 3 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I think theyve decided its pretty much as you were. Kubo being involved was known a long time ago. I dont think there is anything there thatll change peoples minds. I am curious about something though - I believe you have volume 1, but this picture is from vol 2. Did vol 1 not have the same listing in the credits? I find it very strange to have changed them from one volume to the next if they were different rather than just a detail that was missed first time around. Anyway, Ive added that he is listed as co-author on vol2, which only seems fair. Other than that All I have to say is what I've said before - I couldnt care less if its canon or not, to me its a all a bit silly and irrelevant. The important thing is whether or not it is enjoyable (not all of the manga was!) and that all the info that needs to be on the wiki is on the wiki. And in that regard I think we (by which I mean almost entirely Timjer, thank you and well done once again) have done a great job with it. 08:16, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


 * "Did vol 1 not have the same listing in the credits?" Oh, yes, it certainly does. I even double checked right now, I just only noticed it when studying the credits of vol 2, and found it redundant to post 2 (pretty much identical) images here. Also, you're very welcome; I'm happy I could be of such help to a wiki about one of my favorite mangas. Timjer (talk) 08:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Regardless, Yyp, wile I normally am less caring about side material being canon or not, the thing is just that I'd like to have confirmation now if it's okay to move some EU stuff (like Shinji's Bankai and such) to the main pages, now that it seems to be clear Kubo had a greater part in making them than just making sketches. Timjer (talk) 09:36, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


 * I'd be fine with them on the main pages - in the Other Media section.--Xilinoc (talk) 19:57, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Unverified Translation Template Notice
Should we update the notice at top of this and other pages saying that the info is unverifiable since its not available in English, to say it only applies to volume 3 since 1 & 2 are translated officially now? Maybe a new template as Im not sure if this is used on other untranslated pages like games not released in the west etc. 08:16, 4 November 2020 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I was thinking of doing that myself earlier, since 2/3 of the novel have already been localized, but I wasn't sure how to do it and how to word it. But you make a good point about the untranslated games, I hadn't thought of that. Timjer (talk) 08:38, 4 November 2020 (UTC)