Forum:Do U Think Gin Could Turn On Aizen

I know this a stretch n has no support or anything, its jus an idea but could gin turn on aizen. All I can give is gin is as cunning as aizen and showed a little compassion towards matsumoto when he left--Jwill35 15:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

can i get an opinion

Good question i don't know both have mental issues i think. Aizen is a megalomaniac and Gin seems like a sociopath. So its like the dictator verses the serial killer, who would win. I think all said and done they are probably about even without Aizen's cheap zanpakuto special ability.Salubri 15:28, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Good point i mean gin always seems like he knows alot if not more about aizens plans than aizen--Jwill35 15:59, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Gin would betray Aizen. Despite his less than noble actions, Gin has been a loyal ally of Aizen. Aizen himself holds both Gin and Tosen in high regard and would kill even the Espada if they tried to harm them. Yes, they are all evil, but even evil people believe in loyalty. Plus, if Gin wished to betray Aizen, what would he gain from it? Most likely, the Arrancar wouldn't follow him, because they are loyal to Aizen and appear to only respect Gin and Tosen because they Are Aizen's right hand men. Plus, Aizen is fearless, and both Gin and Tosen are afraid to die (said so by Zaraki), and the Arrancar only follow Aizen because of his power and his lack of fear, as Iceringer said made him inspiring to those born from fear(the Hollows).--Moe1216 19:20, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Thats a valid point. If anyone would turn on Aizen i think it would be Tosen. He seems the most unsure and he obviously is a hypocrite as Aizen's path is neither justice nor the path with the least bloodshed but the most. The reason i say unsure is the flashback between tosen and komamura a bit before komamura was introduced to Aizen by tosen. Tosen seems uncertain about answering a question komamura posed to him. Also if you notice true enough that Aizen considers both trusted right hand men but if you notice both act different in relation to aizen. Gin acts as a equal/friend/and co conspirator. Where tosen acts as a subordinate/servant. He is not as free and open to talking with aizen as gin is nor does he question aizen or show any real understanding of aizens mannerisms or mind like gin only seemingly following orders.Salubri 19:40, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Man, thats a good point. I never tought of it like that. Tosen does act more like a servant than an equal, plus he seems almost too submissive to Aizen. If what he believes contradicts Aizen's plan so much why would he continue? There may one thing he is trying to do, but it's just a hypothesis with no validation. What if Tosen wants to get rid of the gotei 13 to get revenge for the death of his friend? She too was a soul reaper, but she was killed by her husband who was also a soul reaper, but more violent. It kind of makes sense, and since Tosen believes that murder in the name of good is righteous, he might have no problem with destroying something he believs is evil, like Zaraki. So in his mind, the path he follows with the least blood shed most likely would mean the blood of his allies', not his enemies'. Once again, hypothesis so don't burn burn me at the stake please:).--Moe1216 19:53, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

There really is no grudge between Gin and anyone of the S.S. I can't see Gin squaring of with anyone in particular. Not like the Tossen and Kummoramura fight everyone wants to see. I think Gin could turn. You can only be in the back round for so long and Gins been there since he was 7

As a few people pointed out, Gin doesn't really have a personal grudge with anyone in Soul Society. By all indications, Hitsugaya has shifted all his rage onto Aizen in regards to all that happened around Hinamori. He might have some lingering grudge towards Ichimaru but nothing to the extent that people have against Aizen and Tosen.

What we do have is Kira and Matsumoto. Both of whom seemed to care about Ichimaru a lot and... I don't think they hate him for what he did... it's hard to describe but it's not a straight forward case of feeling betrayed and hating Gin for betraying them. At the same time, while Tosen has been rather cold towards his long time friend Komamura and has showed no concern for his Vice-captain. Ichimaru did seem genuinely sad about leaving Matsumoto and has shown concern for Kira. Kira is uninjured, so he might be going up against Ichimaru in the manga soonish. Maybe Matsumoto will try and fight Ichimaru too (try being the operative word). They are the only people Ichimaru has any kind of a personal relationship with. But Ichimaru betraying Aizen for love is, I think, only going to happen in the realm of fanfiction.

Ultimately however, I don't think Ichimaru is particularly loyal to Aizen. I think Ichimaru is only loyal to himself and may well be doing this for the fun of it. Anyway, I don't think it'll be long before we find out a little bit more about Ichimaru Gin, his motivations, his true feelings etc.

Incidentallly, my current desktop wall paper is the picture of Ichimaru Gin from the Bleach Art book: All colour but the black. The caption for which (as translated by Ju-ni) reads "The intent to kill, that is as beautiful as love." Makes me really wonder what Kibo Tite has planned for Ichimaru. Tinni 10:01, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

First of all, Salubri, your comment about dictator vs. serial killer cracked me up. Anyway...

It's pretty clear that Gin is out for himself. He killed that 3rd Seat from Fifth Division before he had any ties or loyalty to Aizen, which means he is capable of seeing opportunities for himself and taking them at any cost. I'm not sure what he's getting out of Aizen's plot besides an interesting diversion from Soul Society's antiquated moral structure, but I think if he sees something he wants, Gin will go for it without a second thought to Aizen. Could be he wants Kira and Matsumoto to live, but then again, it could be that he wants the King's Key/throne of heaven for himself. Should be interesting to find out. QuoteRadar 22:34, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I didn't read all the posts but I like Salubri's post explaining Tousen's relationship with Aizen. Before I just assumed that Tousen was just using manners or he was scared of Aizen, but him acting like that could mean he's unsure of what he's doing. I think both Tousen and Gin could betray Aizen, but Tousen is the one to most likely do it if it were to happen. Gin looks like he just kinda goes with the flow. Aizen probably just approached him, saw that he liked to kill, and said "Help me get the Ouken and be God", and Gin was like "Yeah." The only real emotion I remember seeing from Gin is towards Rangiku before leaving Soul Society. So if he were to betray Aizen, it would have to be a real odd reason. I think even if Aizen told Gin to kill Rangiku, he would do it with that smile on his face and say something like "Awww, that's too bad. I really liked her.". --Mr.Zeke 17:07, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

To add to Tosen's hypocrisy for following Aizen, not only does it contradict the bloodshed and justice, but it also contradicts Tosen's view on fear. Aizen is supposedly fearless, but Tosen himself his his on philosophy on fear that again, contradicts how Aizen is. One eye 17:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

YES!!! I completely agree with One Eyed, I've been thinking that for a while now and thought that was odd. Tousen believes that "One who does not know fear, is not fit to do battle...", but the Arrancar's express that Aizen is a man without fear. Whether or not Tousen's heard this from the Arrancar's or not, just from the way Aizen acts and speaks he shows no fear. That's a very good point that was pointed out.--Mr.Zeke 19:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that Ichimaru is as Mr.Zeke says, pretty laid back and goes with the flow. I think he's a bit power hungry but only his own power, not power over anyone else which is why he follows Aizen to further his own skills but doesn't mind being a subordinate. And he does also seem rather unconcerned when the battle appears to be turning against them. I'm under the impression that if Tousen hadn't interfered with Shinji, Gin would've just let it happen as it happened. I think it's telling that only Gin hasn't found an opponent and he sure as hell isn't trying to. BollyW 09:46, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I've had an inkling for a week or so now; what if Aizen too is afraid of death, and that is why he seeks the Ouken; possible immortality, therefore he can't die, something a megalomaniac like Aizen would find rather appealing?

I too believe Gin is playing Aizen as much as Aizen is playing him. We still don't know a lot about what he's really capable of (let's be honest, was he really trying against Toshiro?), so he could be more powerful than Aizen realises; Gin is a stated child prodigy, Aizn insofar as we know is not. I know his official stats put him way behind Aizen, but it's not unknown for Shinigami to hold back their real power. TomServo101 14:38, 9 August 2009 (UTC)