User talk:Minato88

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Bleach Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Bleach Wiki:Featured Article page.

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Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Arrancar109 (Talk) 23:23, September 29, 2009

You said you were confused about Tousen's Resurrecion?
It turns out that Grillar is a Catalan word, part of a language mostly spoken in and around the Pyrenees Mountains.

grillar [greel-lyar’] verb neuter: 1. To chirp or squeak (grillo). (n) verb reflexive: 2. To shoot, to sprout.

any idea what the deal is about his resurreccion? i mean he's a soul reaper so he should only have a mask.Soul reaper magnum 02:30, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

At your request (and to supplement the good start Soul reaper magnum gave you above), I happened to, in my excitement over this chapter's events, have focused much attention on these questions. First off, you do seem indeed correct yourself, Minato, that "Suzumushi Hyakushiki" is just like saying "Suzumushi Tsuishiki" before unleashing his Bankai. Here's the breakdown:

清虫百式: 狂枷蟋蟀 (グリジャル・グリージョ)

Suzumushi Hyakushiki: Gurijaru Gurījo

"Suzumushi Hundred Style: Grillar Grillo"

Suzumushi (lit. "bell worm/bug") is Japanese for the insect native there which we call the "bell cricket." Grillar Grillo is Spanish for "chiming/chirping cricket," whereas its underlying kanji (as occur also with all Arrancar Zanpakutou) mean "crazed/mad shackle(s)/bond(s) cricket"; in fact, the "crazed/mad" kanji 狂 also occurs in Katen Kyou kotsu, and the "cricket" part, 蟋蟀, is koorogi, same as in Enma Koorogi.

Grillo is traced to Latin gryllus, from Greek grúllos, "a cricket, grasshopper"; grillar from Latin gryllāre, grillāre, "to (make the sound of a) cricket, chirp," a verb derived from this noun. The Royal Academy of Spanish even cites that grillar is sometimes used as a synonym for cantar, "to sing," as well as "to (produce) sound(s)" in general. It's also worth noting that whereas most times, Resurrección (帰刃 (レスレクシオン) Resurekushion) has the underlying kanji "return blade," when Tousen says "Resurrección" in this ch. 385, the underlying kanji are "sword release" (刀剣解放 (レスレクシオン))--exactly as they were in the underlying kanji of Ulquiorra's Resurrección (Segunda Etapa)!

As far as how Tousen can perform Resurrección, nothing concrete and canon is known for sure so far. But it has inspired me to wonder, and here's my theory (though this is all conjecture--and so can't be used in any actual article--I hope you like it):

A Plus > a Hollow by losing their hearts and being consumed by the dark side of their soul. Without a heart, they cannot manifest a Zanpakutou (a "sword of the heart/soul"), so they may only gain power by cannibalizing other Hollows--but they cannot regain the ability to get a true Zanpakutou. If the Hollow > an Arrancar, they regain some rationality, and they can seal their natural Hollow powers into a kind of "fake Zanpakutou" (i.e. without a soul like old man Zangetsu actually in it) when they don't want to use these powers. When they do want to use their true form and its powers, they perform Resurrección.

However, if a Plus > a Shinigami, they keep their heart and can manifest a Zanpakutou, then advance (if strong enough) from Shikai to Bankai.

The Visored are the second type, so they can keep their hearts--and so use Shikai and Bankai of a true Zanpakutou--as well as, thanks to being half-Hollowfied by Aizen's trickery, use a mask and some Hollow powers. However, as they told Ichigo, they can wield their Hollow powers without losing to their inner Hollows because they suppress their inner Hollows, "crushing them down into their souls." Thus, they may, as a result of the suppression, be using only the tip of the iceberg in terms of their Hollow potential.

Now we come to Tousen, apparently made a true/perfect hybrid by exposure to the Hougyoku. He could be called a "super-Visored." In him, we may be seeing what would happen if a Visored, instead of suppressing their inner Hollow and so limiting the amount of its power they can tap-- mastered/embraced their inner Hollow, and thus gained all of its potential power! And it seems that if a Visored does embrace their inner Hollow, the inner Hollow's Resurrección--or unleashing of its full, enhanced power--is absorbed into their true, Shinigami's Zanpakutou and almost becomes an alternate Bankai.

Developments with Ichigo are also highly suggestive. Didn't his inner Hollow claim "I am Zangetsu!" ? Didn't Ichigo transform into a new, berserk Hollow form with incredible power? It does seem that true hybrids--made with the Hougyoku or not--or those on the way to becoming true hybrids see their inner Hollow's maximum potential and its twin, their Zanpakutou's power, fuse together.

Here's a breakdown of my theory (in the below items, "~" means "analogous to/the equivalent of," but not "is exactly like/equal to"):

Shinigami's Asauchi (nameless Zanpakutou) = Hollow's Menos evolution(s) = Visored's forced Hollowfaction first step toward power, though still raw, not fully tapped, and uncontrollable

Shinigami's Zanpakutou manifestation/name-learning = Hollow's Arrancarifaction = Visored's learning to keep control achieving stability and the chance to access the power

Shinigami's Shikai = Arrancar's Resurrección = Visored's mask unsealing of power into its natural state so they may use it freely

Shinigami's Bankai = Arrancar's Resurrección Segunda Etapa = True Hybrid's Resurrección enhancing the natural state's power to new heights

Thus a true hybrid like Tousen now seems to be able, theoretically, to use a Shinigami's full arsenal--Shikai, Bankai, Shunpo, Kidou, etc.-- and a Hollow/Arrancar's full arsenal--Resurrección, Sonido, Cero, ultra-fast regeneration etc.--even without starting off as a Hollow first. The Visored probably could, too, if they dared to embrace or conquer their inner Hollows completely, instead of just suppressing them.

Hope this answers your questions/gives you food for thought, so let me know your thoughts. Sorry for the length, but this chapter has revved me up and fired my imagination! Hope to here from you soon. Thrilling stuff! :) Adam Restling 12:07, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

I think the point is being missed and getting alot of speculative when there is already information present.


 * Shinigmai - zanpakuto (shikai, bankai)


 * Hollow


 * Arrancar - zanpakuto (Resurrección)


 * Vizard - Zanpkauto (shikai, bankai) Hollowfication


 * Shinigami-Hybrid - zanpakuto (shikai, bankai) hollowfication, Resurrección

Whether the vizard are capable of it is a obvious, they are. We have seen it before Kensei and Mashiro weren't hollows 100 years ago that was a inner hollow controlled Resurrección similar to Ichigo during his fight with Ulquiorra. Whether they have attained control over it in the past 100 years is something we dont know, obviously ichigo hasn't. As well anyone can assume alot but the point being that Resurrección: Segunda Etapa was only seen once and only referred to one character. Despite the fact that it carries itself as a plot device, it was somewhat useless besides forcing ichigo into a more powerful form. Also All the Espada above Ulquiorra didn't possess one and they're all dead. So its quite clear what it was used for, at this point the use of it would be unnecessary to further the plot (as ichigo isn't strong enough not to use it every fight as he constantly uses bankai and hollowfication every fight). Also an espada's Resurrección is shown to be more then enough to take on most captains (in some cases even with bankai being used), furthering the point. The idea behind arrnacar is to attain access to shinigami like abilities (sonido, humanoid shape, pseudo zanpakuto) but thats where its stops apparently they are by in large still hollows and their release is enough to reflec that they dont need more levels. Even the shikai and bankai its more a way of separating captains from lower seats as the shingiami exist in a more formalized military, where the espada are only partially organized and tolerant of the organization seemingly created by aizen. They are noticeably antagonistic even to each other in or out of the ranking system.

Also the way this works is simple as determined by ichigo's advancement. In any shingiami there is their zanpakuto spirit in their inner world. It is the source of their power if your dealing with a vizard they have attained hollow powers and therefore they then have a inner hollow. Hollow ichigo once explained to ichigo while in the inner world, he is zangetsu. that he and Zangetsu were originally one being, as both are the source of Ichigo's power and Hollow Ichigo was part of Zangetsu. Although they both share one physical body, if the master and servant exchange roles, the form changes as well. As Hollow Ichigo's power grew control was transferred to him and Zangetsu became a part of him. Therefore the more Ichigo tries to draw out Zangetsu the easier it gets for Hollow Ichigo to take over Ichigo's soul. Ichigo realizing if Hollow Ichigo is defeated will put Zangetsu back into control. With that information we can note that to be the case with all vizards, hence to attain the position they release their zanpakuto like we have seen so many arrancar do. It is another release the difference is instead of bringing out the power of the zanpakuto spirit your bringing out the power of the inner hollow. From the information that would have it be more like this:


 * Shingimai - Zanpakuto (shikai, bankai)


 * Arrancar - Zanpakuto (Resurrección) Ulquiorra -Zanapkuto (Resurrección, Resurrección: Segunda Etapa)


 * Shinigami-Hollow Hybrid/Vizard - Zanpakuto (shikai, bankai, Resurrección) Hollowfication

Sorry for the long extension on the conversation. Salubri 19:50, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Minato for your thanks (?! Thanks overload! XD). Also, if you use say a browser like Firefox, open the " V iew" drop-down menu at the top of the browser window, and there should be a " Z oom" option to maybe allow you too see certain characters better. I know one of your earlier messages mentioned the difficulty your small screen gives you :).

@ Salubri - yeah, not much is known about these recent developments that counts as canon, that's why I was careful to preface most of my ideas with "this is all conjecture" or the like. All my theories and reasons behind this tenuous conjecture can be found in the data I posted above, as well as in related posts. We have no way of knowing, for example, if Segunda Etapa is the Hollow analogue of Bankai--which takes many years for most Shinigami to achieve--because all the Arrancar we know haven't had many years to live! XD Adam Restling 07:37, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Hence it being a plot device it serves no other purpose, there was no true leap in power besides becoming even more hard for ichigo to handle which he already was before its release, hence only something to push the envelope create the desperation and take it to another level to justify ichigos change. Not to mention time cant be a factor for it not only was he the 4th but he couldn't feasibly be any older then say barragan or starrk and Ulquiorra was the only one with it. As i stated if those of greater power then him doesn't have it then how significant can it be. We also have a tendency to ascribe the release as something of greater power because its a second release amongst those with only one. The issue here is we dont know that and cant ulquiorra has only seriously fought ichigo so we can only determine that it was more powerful then him we have nothing to prove he is anything but more then a match for ichigo. Unless its used again it seems to be a moot point to even include it when it pretains to only one character who states that he is the only one capable of it. Salubri (Talk)  06:44, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Re:Vizard is a race
Hello I'm Cococrash11 can you help me convince that in the Talk:Vizard or Talk:Kaname Tosen that Vizard is a race. --Cococrash11 07:49, December 12, 2009 (UTC)Coccorash11

Sure Tosen and Shinji's group are very diffrent but they are both still half Hollow. Beside you said Tosen's Hollow power is diffrent then Shinji's group well what about Ichigo's his hollow power is also way diffrent then Shinji's group when he fought the 4th Espada(I don't know how to spell his name) and he's still called a Vizard. Beside maybe Shinji's group haven't revealed all their Hollow power and I still think Tosen is a Vizard. --Cococrash11 23:03, December 12, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11

You said don't write something in the discussion word then where should I put in my writings? --Cococrash11 23:03, December 12, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11

Name Change
I'm not positive, but I think the new user who made that forum wants to change "Jaegerjaquez" to "Jeagerjaquez", which would be an incorrect change (I reverted her edit of this earlier). Still, if she does, tell her that "Jaegerjaquez" is proven to be correct, and for proof, this page:.

I know you already know this, but if she asks, this is the reason why, in addition to what I said on the forum. Arrancar109 06:30, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank for the help with who created bleach.wikia. The reason that I put the question on my talk page was because don't know were you put questions at and the reason I wanted to know who created bleach.wikia is because I like to know about history I like to know where something comes from. December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Hey I just found that picture in the image library for this site. It had already been uploaded. I thought I put the fair use tag. Sorry. Faded.roses 17:11, December 13, 2009 (UTC) Faded.roses

Re: Image Policy
You know, I'm not too sure. I noticed that Twocents was working on the Policy, so I don't know what rules she added and haven't familiarized myself with it yet. I'm going to look into it and see what changes have been made. In the meantime, you might be better off asking her instead. Arrancar109 00:45, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

hey
hey been awhile, thought i'd see what u were up to.Soul reaper magnum 05:35, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

i was looking on ichigo's page and i noticed that in the picture with all the vizards holding down ichigo that there zanpakuto were black with silver edges. i haven't seen it mentioned befor so i thout i'd say something. what do you think?Soul reaper magnum 03:50, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

thanks for the link.Soul reaper magnum 02:18, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

thanks for the link(again) and as always let me know if you find out anything about 5d's.Soul reaper magnum 19:19, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

it's taken forever but shinji's zanpakuto's name and shikai have been reveled. and i think it looks kind of neat, what about you?Soul reaper magnum 05:49, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

gamertag:super magnum45.Soul reaper magnum 10:06, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Re: References
Yeah, I kinda wondered. I'll look into the matter soon. Arrancar109 21:00, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Hollow Ichigo
Hey there is some obvious issue with the last posts on hollow ichigo's talk pages they are general conversation that belong on his forum not on the talk page. Salubri (Talk)  23:04, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you.Salubri (Talk)  23:09, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Actually burst is not confirmed as of yet. So as far as the discussion it is closed cause i dont feel like arguing but ask adam to get some translation on what we currently have and find the raw for that particular chapter as well as the the one she initially releases against gin and is stopped by izuru. the reference is on the zanpkauto. Salubri (Talk)  08:06, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Tosen
Actually the Resureccion is an action of a zanpakuto similar to how a arrancar's release. Hollowfication is only used as a term to donning a hollow mask. So its acutally listed under zanpakuto just like the arrancars are.Salubri (Talk)  17:07, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Category
Im not sure what you mean exactly. Salubri (Talk)  17:26, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Well chad has a need help category which i put there cause he is lacking alot or references and the page needs to be overhauled in general. As for the forum thing i had nothing to do with that. Also categories have to be added manually. Salubri (Talk)  17:38, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

its simple type Category:(whatever your listing) and put it in Salubri  <font color="cyan" size="2px">(Talk)  17:55, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Re: Momo Hinamori
Yep, both raws for the pages you indicated use 弾け hajike. This is the imperative/command form of hajiku "flip, snap" (tr.), i.e. "flip, snap, or strike something else." Tr(ansitive) and intr(ansitive)--and forgive me if you already know this--indicate action directed at something else, versus not at something else. For example, breaks is transitive in he breaks the cup (i.e. he made the cup break) versus intransitive in the vase breaks (i.e. the vase itself broke).

Hajiku, thus, means "flip, snap, strike (at)"; its intransitive/passive form hajikeru means "split or burst (open), pop." It's probably from confusion or, more likely, greater license with this other intepretation "burst" that resulted in the translations you were asking about.

As for hajiku, command form hajike itself, though, the most usual translation would be "snap" or "flip". Whichever you think is best. Interesting side-note: the infinitive-gerund form of this verb, hajiki, is used also for "(metal) spring" (< "things that flips, pushes (up), repels"). Adam Restling 17:39, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Mayuri Reference
I think Eliskuya2 was acting in good faith there. The reference he removed was not added properly in the first place & wasn't helpful. Instead of being added with the text it was referencing, it was added separately under the references heading, so there's no way of knowing what it is actually referring to, making it pretty much useless. I've gone back through the edit history to see if I can find what it was added with, but no luck so far. -- Yyp  (Talk)  17:55, December 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * It's okay - we all have to start somewhere. I'm surprised it had lasted so long there, but I've added it in the correct place. By the way, I saw in your conversation with Salubri above that you are marking pages for deletion by adding the candidates for deletion category. Is that right? You can also use or , which add the category automatically. -- Yyp   (Talk)  18:23, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Re: Commttee
Sorry about that, I've been very busy for the past couple of days, so I haven't had time to look into it yet. I'll go ahead and look into it now. Arrancar109 18:03, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Alrighty, I submitted my voting, but I gotta check out Animeluvr's history first, as I'm not familiar with him/her. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  18:47, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

I think you can go ahead with both Gold & Tom for now. We'll see about Animeluvr later. -- Yyp  (Talk)  18:47, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Yes that should be alright. I am not too concerned about who get's what seat as they are essentially the same in terms of rank, i.e. it's all seated officer. But if Gold has a higher edit count to Tom, then Gold should get a higher number seat to Tom. Tinni 19:05, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Re: Signature
Yeah, I noticed the signature coding you and Salubri use are different, but either way works actually. Also, I'm not too familiar with the number-letter color coding, since it's a bit more randomized. Still, I got it up, so it should be fine now. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  18:51, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

It would have worked, but it wouldn't have been the color I'd wanted (and I did have trouble choosing a color to begin with). Also, if you're wondering what color it would have been, it would have been green (my new one is teal). <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  18:59, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Watercooler
Thanks Minato, this was just what i was looking for. Nick D Wolfwood 14:23, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

If there is, I can't find it, and I went back a few pages to before when we started to combine similar threads, so if you want to start one for him, that's fine. I must have missed this guys post, cause I usually fix them as soon as I see problems like that. -- Yyp  (Talk)  16:20, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Committee Initiation
Hey Minato, before you go ahead with the initiation, I just wanted to tell you that you should give candidates the option to do manga chapter summaries if they don't have access to the anime episodes. I mean, asking them to download the anime episodes afresh if they don't already have them is a bit much. So you should offer them the option of doing manga chapter summaries instead, because manga chapters are easily accessible online. However, to be fair, they would have to do about 8 manga chapters as the are much shorter then anime episodes. They can do the 8 chapters from either the "current volume" or the "alternative volume" that the volume summary project is working on. They can also do some from the current volume and some from the alternative volume. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. Tinni 18:49, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Re:Adminship on Yu Yu Hakusho
Done. DragonBallZ 22:51, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Re:Image Policy
Yes, pictures need both a fair use license and the fair use rationale. the rationale basically justifies the licensing and confirms legality. Twocents  (Talk)  23:24, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your help in adding those tags. :) Just so you know - my intention isn't to do, like, mass deletions, but rather get some attention called to improperly labeled images, and see if the correct fair use information can be added. If it can't, well, then I suppose we can look into replacing images.

And congrats! ^_^ That's very exciting. I'm sure you'll be great as an admin. ^_^ Twocents   (Talk)  23:51, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Chapter 386
Yes. http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/386-15/1 Tinni 23:49, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Re: The Commitee
I was aware that was the idea. Do the last 2 anime episodes (both of which I did) contribute to this amount? TomServo101 00:09, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

No, I'm talking about episodes 249 & 250. TomServo101 00:25, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Initiation
well i yea you set up right let them do a couple and well see how that goes. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  01:01, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Fights, Tosen & Butterflies
No, these were never protected. I think they might be some of the first ones he made, before he had to start protecting them. I'll look at the Tosen thing in a bit, just trying to catch up with the rest of the edits. -- Yyp  (Talk)  23:20, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Vandal taken care of and I've caught up with everything. Salubri beat me to changing Tosen's thing, and the offending line has been removed. Also, thanks for saying that to Lia Schiffer earlier. -- Yyp  (Talk)  00:00, December 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * I truly do not know what he was on about. I thought he meant real life mosquitoes, but the bitto makes far more sense. Though the bitto don't even have their own page - they are a subsection of the Dolls page, so I don't get what he was on about. Regardless, it was totally pointless and I nearly just deleted it outright. -- Yyp  (Talk)  00:09, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Re: Video pics
Actually I don't use anything fancy. I watch Bleach episodes on Windows Media Player classic because a lot of my Bleach episodes are in the .msk format and since Windows Media Players classic is fairly stable, I use it to watch the .avi versions of the Bleach episodes as well. Windows Media Player actually has a option under file for "save image as" and so after pausing the video on the scene I want, I just "save image as". Tinni  (Talk)  02:15, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks :) Well enjoy your break whenever you take it. Have fun! Tinni   (Talk)  02:22, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

Bounts
Hey, I just realised You reverted my edits in Bount articles... but WHY? Does "... is an (anime-only) character in the anime-exclusive Bount arc" sounds good to You? For me it's just repeating that she/he is an anime only character in one sentance... Nekosama 21 December 2009, 23:00 (UTC)

new 5d's episodes
just got some news from one of my friends on the yu-gi-oh! wiki. 4kids has put episode 53 and 54 or 153 and 154 as they number it (don't know why) on there website.Soul reaper magnum 01:32, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

as far as i know nobody has yet. and i'v been having problems with 4kids myself. the thing with youtube is it's hard to find episodes with good resolution. most of what i find is blurry.Soul reaper magnum 11:52, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

MERRY CHRISTMAS
I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  11:09, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

While You Were Away...
Hi Minato. Hope you had a good break. Since you were away for a few days, I thought I'd bring you up to speed on some of the things that have happened since you last posted.
 * 1) Bleach 387 was released on Christmas Day, in case you missed it. So that means no Bleach (manga or anime) for about 2 weeks.
 * 2) Salubri has been updating the navigation templates, making them take up much less space. You can see the new ones on most character pages, though there are still some that have not be changed.
 * 3) Salubri has also made a new template for use on the talk page to tell others that your away (Template:Inactive) - I guess that would only be for when your away for a while, not just a day or two.
 * 4) You've probably noticed that the featured article vote is open.
 * 5) Tosen's page was briefly unlocked, and then placed back under protection due to edit war. I've added it to the list of high-risk articles on the Committee page, as it will need monitoring during the times when it is open for editing.
 * 6) On the Committee front, we've had a few more applicants: User:GODKING OF ICE CERBERUS WERE-GARURUMON, User:Nwang2011, User:KiranTheBoi, and User:SerialSniper14. Due to the jump in interest, Tinni has made a suggestion that the existing Committee members screen applicants (link to exact location on the Committee Page).
 * 7) Nwang2011 and SerialSniper14 have been helping out with the reference project. They've done a few articles between them (Iceringer & Demora are the only ones I remember off hand).

That's all that I can think of atm. I'm sure I missed a fair bit, but that's what happens when you have such a busy wiki. Welcome back. -- Yyp  (Talk)  23:06, December 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries. Whenever you are ready. Everyone deserves a break around this time of year. As I thought, I forgot to mention a couple of things. You've already spotted the extra seat for the Committee. I've update the adminship request page with reasons why people have been declined (I admit that should have been done sooner). You would of course be considered when the time comes. -- Yyp  (Talk)  12:58, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Re: Committee Page
Yes I think all committee members should have a say about who get's to join and who doesn't. Just because we all have to work with each other and it should be a inclusive process. Of course this might change in the future when we have more seated officers. But given that there is only three of us at the moment.... we should all have a say. Tinni  (Talk)  14:49, December 30, 2009 (UTC)