Forum:Was ulquiorra a vasto lorde? (Thread Closed)

when ulquiorra first appeared everyone thought that he was a vasto lorde i bet.I still believe it. with his first release he was able to kick vizard ichigo's butt without problem.Vizard ichigo is above an average captain so ulqiorra is far beyond an average captain so what do you think?

There is something to be said about interpretation. There really was nothing to note Ulquiorra actually being a Vasto Lorde beyond some fans hopes. The evidence used to support it is minimal and at the same time counts against him as well. Having said that there was more hype behind his power level but it turned out to be just that hype. Ichigo has the spiritual power level of a captain (which is confirmed) but he by no means is the most powerful in the series nor is he powerful enough to qualify at the level of a captain who has 50 to 100+ years of experience on him not to mention skills he can't even perform. Lets also mention that he has only learned to retain the mask for long periods of time, he doesn't know how to use the full capabilities of his hollow powers, nor how to maintain control without allowing his inner hollow to take possession. With all that in mind it says nothing about Ichigo's power compared to Ulquiorra's but says alot about how Ulquiorra can so easily beat Ichigo. In fact seeing as the only instance we have seen Ulquiorra fight seriously was verses Ichigo we can only really compare him to Ichigo and seeing as I stated before he could easily take Ichigo and then the second form kicks in and he suddenly begins to lose. Ichigo went from being barely able to keep up with Ulquiorra to totally owning him. So its not likely Ulquiorra was as powerful as he was insinuated to be with all the brooding and acting all superior, it doesn't qualify as confirming his strength. Even being one of the top espada doesn't guarentee a testament of almighty power, considering Barragan who is 2nd in power compared to Ulquiorra who is 4th in power, is the most powerful espada to date and is now dead. In the end Ulquirroa is dead and if for the sake of argument if he was a Vasto Lorde it doesn't say much about their power if they can be killed just like that.Salubri 04:53, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

-There really was nothing to note Ulquiorra actually being a Vasto Lorde beyond some fans hopes. The evidence used to support it is minimal and at the same time counts against him as well.-

Minimal? The only known picture of a Vasto Lorde is of Ulquiorra.

Yes, he's a Vasto Lorde.

- In the end Ulquirroa is dead and if for the sake of argument if he was a Vasto Lorde it doesn't say much about their power if they can be killed just like that. -

Always killed by more than a single captain (either a team or an awakened hollow-vizard), exactly as VLs are insinuated to be. The description of them was 'more battle power than a captain', not 'far beyond a captain' or 'stronger than two captains' or 'invincible' or anything like that, and both Ulquiorra and Barragan without a doubt showed beyond captain power. I'm not sure how you can say 'just' when that's how they were described in information about them all along, anything beyond that is pure speculation.

I do think what some fans place VL as is beyond what anyone in the series has described them like.ZeroSD 07:46, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

You just stated my point the speculation is fueled by fans who place the concept of Vasto Lorde beyond everything in the series in power level. First off thats not true it is a simple silhouette of any possible hollow VASTO LORDe he wasn't referring to arrancars and that is not proven at all that its ulquiorra, its pure speculation to assume so, a person can discern whatever they want from it but it doesn't prove anything along those lines. secondly where does it say anything about how a vasto lorde is killed or who it can be killed by. Its never even brought up to that level cause all that is ever stated of a vasto lorde being a arrancar is on what if terms and they are talking about the danger that would pose to soul society they do go into the detail of the vasto lorde themselves. Also like i previously stated Ulquiorra never fought a captain, yes someone with the spiritual power level of a captain but not a captain who is leagues away from ichigo. Ichigo is who he fought and as previously stated Ichigo has more weaknesses counting against him then advantages and in the end if you really want to use him he fought ulquiorra from jump with his hollow mask on and wasnt winning and then later with the new transformation he lost. If Ulquiorra was fighting ichigo beyond captain level then what level was ichigo at in this new transformation. The fact is you can only compare Ulquiorra to ichigo, the only one he actually fought, there is too many flaws in the combatant he faced for it to be an accurate understanding of his power. All that is proven is that a arrancar can be taken by a vizard far easier then a captain shinigami can take them. All that is in fact described about a Vasto Lorde is that they are extremely small in number, to the point you can count them on your fingers. They are roughly the same size as humans and that their combat capabilities are beyond that of captains. When there is something beyond a hollow silhouette and this little information then theres something to work with. Until then its speculation. Salubri 14:11, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

- First off thats not true it is a simple silhouette of any possible hollow VASTO LORDe he wasn't referring to arrancars and that is not proven at all that its ulquiorra, its pure speculation to assume so, - Pure speculation? It's a pretty unique silhouette.

-ll that is in fact described about a Vasto Lorde is that they are extremely small in number, to the point you can count them on your fingers. They are roughly the same size as humans and that their combat capabilities are beyond that of captains. When there is something beyond a hollow silhouette and this little information then theres something to work with. Until then its speculation.-

All of which is consistent with what we know of the upper Espada, and the silhouette is clearly just like Ulquiorra's headdress, which is at least one piece of solid evidence that goes past speculation.

You were saying 'there's nothing indicating he's a Vasto Lorde beyond fan hope', which isn't true. It fits the facts and we have an image. Then you said his power level was just hype and that if they can be killed 'just like that' it doesn't say much about their power, which is, again, not true, his power was beyond that of vizard Ichigo. Most captains < Vizard Ichigo < Ulquiorra. Again fitting with Vasto Lorde (he's beyond a *vizard*, who already have power of both captains and hollows), and showing extreme levels of power. His shown strength in itself is a good argument for him being a vasto lorde, and his image just adds to that. It's highly highly probable he's a vasto lorde and there's nothing going against it.

Please stop saying there's nothing to go on whenever this comes up, there's a fair amount of evidence which all lines up.ZeroSD 17:36, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Your not even basing it on material of the series. yea its unique to the same fact that silhouette of the adjuhcas is unique. You have yet to admit its not a fact or even likely a fact more then you want it to be. Also all of what we know of a hollow vasto lorde is not consistent of what we know of espada the vast majority had humanoid form just like that of some lesser arrancar so that proves nothing. That proves what little we know of those level hollow nothing of the arrancar especially vasto lorde. Clearly look again unless there is something that states it was him and its the same its all your wishing it to be, its not even in the same context or chapter so thats pointless considering when hitsugaya mentioned we didn't even know that arrancar had a release. It all fits the facts that you want to believe but there are no facts that are true set in stone facts. Your getting to the point where your making up stuff. Vizards of course are above most captains with arrancar seemingly of equal level as them spiritual power wise. When in what world is Ulquiorra beyond anyone, you didnt even read what i previously wrote he is beyond Ichigo until ichigo went full power on him and then his second release meant nothing. Vizard still beat out an espada (two times now, not to mention all the others dead) so who is beyond who. His shown strength is a good argument of his power being greater then ichigo's (and only ichigo as he is the only one he fought) at the time and it was later proven not so great. There is alot going against it more so then you can argue with. Like i stated its pointless hes dead and even if he was he fell pretty easy for someone so powerful which only proves a vizard is more powerful then an espada level vasto lorde arrancar. Which way do you want it either he wasn't and was a powerful adjhucas who died or he was and was a powerful vasto lorde he who died. Either way he was defeated as was one two levels higher then him as well as more powerful then him with no second release. Im not convinced he was until some manga chapter says otherwise, its just opinion and speculation and not even that convincing of one just cause he is believed by some to be so powerful, if he was so powerful why is he dead? Is it so horrible not to have yet witnessed the power of a vasto lorde arrancar yet. Have patience and wait till some actual confirmation instead of stating things as fact. We know really nothing specific of vasto lorde or their full capabilities or what they look like for real. Not to mention its doubtful something so powerful would be subservient to aizen.Salubri 18:16, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

I would have agree with Salubri on this. While I understand some fan points of view. A silhouette and some info on the different types of hollows doesn't make a fact. Ulquiorra is powerful in his own right but he is also the 4th. Yes he has high speed regeneration, powerful hierro and a second release but in the end he proved no match to the power to this new transformation. Salubri also is correct in the details of Ichigo which in turn makes the justification of classifying Ulquiorra as a vasto lorde unlikely. Ichigo is good and powerful but not in the least as powerful as to be considered a captain except in relation to his spiritual strength and he has no real understanding of the full capabilities of his hollow powers. That being said it would seem Ulquiorra wasn't fighting some high powered captain-level vizard (except in relation to this transformation which shows Ulquiorra as in over his head). Now if he fought Shinji or one of the others then you would have a case to make, but he only fought Ichigo so you realistically can only compare him to Ichigo's power which while it has potential has alot to make up for in the next 50 to 100 years on both sides of the spectrum (shingiami and hollow).Halibel101 18:48, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Yes a Vasto Lorde has greater combat capabilities then a captain. When has Ulquiorra fought a captain (I mean an actual full blown captain whose been around for 50+ years who knows kido and has years of swordsmanship and bankai experience). The simple answer is he hasn't he has fought Ichigo and like the previous people state thats not much to say about Ulquiorra's power. As far as the silhouette goes that can really be any hollow, some look alike so its probable to be anyone. I find it easy to fit things to match up to my point of view but It doesn't make it a fact. While I can say its probable to look like him thats as far as i can go. Other then that we need actual confirmation that he was one and not picking info not directly about him or even the arrancar (seeing as hitsugaya was specifically talking about hollows). Also whens the last time a captain has fought a vasto lorde let alone seen one, it would stand to reason much like humans, shinigami and hollow and arrancars not all vasto lorde are equal in power, they must have weaknesses and varying strengths for all we know a captain can take them depending who it is and what their capabilities are. In any case Ulquiorra is dead and was totally owned in the end i think its safe to say that his skill while good may have been exaggerated except in the case of ichgio which in the end proved it was exaggerated then too. All we have to go on his fight with Ichigo so if anything prior to the transformation he was more powerful then Ichigo, we cant claim that for anyone else cause we dont know. Same as we dont know for a fact that he is any higher then adjuhcas. I say the same as the previous guy wait for it.Instigator545 19:00, September 4, 2009 (UTC)