User talk:Vraieesprit

Welcome
Welcome to Bleach Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Talk:Rōjūrō Ōtoribashi page, and thanks for joining our community! There's a lot to do around here, so I hope you'll stay with us and make many more improvements.


 * Recent changes is a great first stop, because you can see what pages other people have been editing, and where you can help.


 * Questions? You can ask on the "discussion" page associated with each article, or post a message on my talk page!


 * Need help? You can find it right here! You can also find a full list of help pages here.


 * Don't know what to do? The Community Portal has an outline of the site, and has links to pages to get you started!


 * Here are some more pages you might find useful:


 * Policy - follow this to ensure harmony on the wiki
 * Manual of Style - a guide to how articles here are organized and written
 * Spoiler Policy - follow this to not ruin upcoming stories for those yet to read or watch the new chapter or episode


 * Sign your name in discussions by typing ~ , which automatically adds your signature and the date, so we know who's talking!

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Yyp (Talk) 12:41, 8 June 2012

Hello
Hi I'm Salubri an Admin here at the Bleach Wiki. If the Japanese Language is your passion or area of interest then try out the Bleach Wiki:Translation Corner. We are always looking for capable and skilled translators currently only Adam Restling is are main go to guy (he isn't always available). We basically defer to him on all official translation for the site. We also predominately go by true Japanese translation as opposed to what Viz Media (as they are usually heavily Americanized) or the questionable fan translations done in scans (as they are usually rushed).--

Hiya - I'd like to do that but when I looked at the Translation page it didn't seem like new applications were being considered! I spend a lot of time correcting/retranslating/transliterating stuff from Bleach on forums and stuff, so I'd like to help out. Should I just leave a message with the person you mentioned??Vraieesprit (talk) 14:54, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Actually the admittance to the associate groups are open and free assuming the person is capable of doing the edits right. Just remember usually we go through some discussion if there is a serious edit involved. --

Hrm. Then how do I go about being included? Or am I now? I know some sites have translation tests before they let people translate for them - I've done that before on song lyric sites so wasn't sure if this was the same here...And sure. Some translations are ambiguous anyway o.O nature of the language...Vraieesprit (talk) 15:26, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * No we have nothing like that we can usually tell when someone doesnt really have any actual knowledge on the subject and are just using google translator or something. Basically all you have to do is add your name to the list on the translator page. --

Ok, have done so - thanks! Vraieesprit (talk) 15:43, June 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * There are some unanswered questions relating to the names and release names of three zanpakuto, maybe u can help in that regard. Also remember to read of the translation corner page to see whats required and expected. Thanks.--

I will do so. As regards the three zans, they seem to have been translated (although I don't think the one of them means bamboo flute, I'm not sure how to render it into acceptably phrased English for a sword name, so I left it alone. The others look okay to me.Vraieesprit (talk) 18:03, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sasakibe's Bankai
I've found what I believe to be some information that might influence how Sasakibe's Bankai has been translated, but as I have no knowledge of Japanese and the matter is already considered closed, I was wondering if you could help to check if what I've found is actually beneficial.

Checking with Tangorin, "離宮" can be translated as "villa (imperial)", so when I then searched for the term "imperial villa", I came across and. Both are imperial residences that are in fact separate from the Imperial Palace, with "離宮" used to signify such places rather than a shrine (as is implied by the current translation), which I believe is explained in greater detail here. Hopefully this information proves useful, but I'm sorry if it turns out that I've bothered you unnecessarily. Blackstar1 (talk) 20:54, August 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Stuff like this is never unnecessary to me, don't worry ;) The thing is that kanji, Miya, has a lot of different definitions, for example, one online dictionary definition:


 * 宮

[音] キュウ グウ ク クウ (On-yomi reading: Kyuu, Guu, Ku, Kuu) [訓] みや  (Kun-yomi reading: Miya) [名] ぐ み (Name use reading) Gu, Mi     [英] (English):  Shinto shrine; constellations; palace; princess


 * Rikyuu 離宮 literally means "separated from the royal palace" from which probably comes the translation "imperial villa."
 * Soo...this is really a decision for site admin to make over what they feel is most logical for the page. I don't disagree with you that a "rikyuu" is commonly used as "imperial villa" in English translation.


 * The biggest trouble is that the zanpakutou release itself is comprised of six characters without any spacing in the middle. Scanlators have separated it into what they feel is logical "Koukou Gonryou Rikyuu" but those are not spaces put in by Kubo. Though rikyuu is a compound on its own merit, we cannot be absolutely certain that Kubo means us to divide the word here and consider it such within the Bankai release. For example, Kou (yellow) and Kou (glittering) are two separate characters denoting two separate elements of the release and cannot be translated as one word together. The same applies for "Gon" and "Ryou" which are given as Solemn and Spirit respectively. I think this is part of the problem with translating this release - we can't be sure where to put in the divides for the last two characters. It may be Imperial Villa, but it may be "Separate" and "Shrine" or "Palace" and we just don't know. Does that help or have I made it worse? Vraieesprit (talk) 21:37, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, you've helped greatly and don't worry, I've spoken with enough translators to understand that what they do isn't an exact science. However, I would like to ask that if your translation accounts for each kanji individually, shouldn’t a term for "離" also be included (e.g. separate(d)/detach(ed))? If so, maybe "Glittering Yellow Detached Palace of the Solemn Spirit" would be more appropriate. While the current translation is more concise, this one accounts for all kanji and the possibility that rikyuu may be a compound here, well if Wikipedia is to be believed on how such Villas are alternatively referred to in English. Blackstar1 (talk) 22:59, August 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * I can't argue with that. It's hard to know when to draw a line between aesthetic and exactness, though. These techniques aren't created with the intention of being rendered in another language and really, a lot of them (this one included) either don't make sense or are ambiguous if transferred literally into English. Senbonzakura is a good example - the second character is a counter, which is a counter for blades and a counter for the stems of flowers. So should it be 1000 Cherry Blossoms or 1000 Blades of the Cherry Blossom? Personally I favour the latter, BUT...that doesn't make the former incorrect. Vraieesprit (talk) 23:26, August 31, 2012 (UTC)

Definitely not an exact science ;). Anyway, I won't pursue this any further given my non-existent Japanese knowledge, so I'll defer to you and whatever decision you ultimately make. Thanks for all your help, it was much appreciated. Blackstar1 (talk) 23:35, August 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's really up to me, but the admins to make a final decision on the translation they use. As far as I'm concerned Sasakibe's name is written the wrong way around in the Western version (and probably Genryuusai's as well) but they didn't want to change it so I have to bow to their greater authority.


 * I would make your point in the Sasakibe or translation corner thread, since the discussion doesn't seem to have been formally closed as far as I can see? You are not wrong, and my suggestion - which was only a suggestion - to keep with the shrine from someone else's translation was really for alliterative purposes (since the kanji also has that meaning). If it were me, I wouldn't be translating "Gon" as solemn, but that's an entirely different argument since Gonryoumaru is already Wiki'd as Solemn Spirit. I think the release name could equally mean Imperial Villa or Separated Palace, depending on how you choose to translate it - as with most of these sword techniques, there are multiple versions, all of which can be considered correct.Vraieesprit (talk) 09:58, September 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry about my ignorances on some of these factors. I've made what should be all the necessary corrections of my errors on the Sasakibe talk page, including explaining why I failed to find the raw data for as long as I did (the link pic failed, and going to the raw main page, you have to click the thumbnail of what looks like a completely different page to get the page in question, which I hadn't expected I'd need to do), so I hope you aren't too mad at me. :) Adam Restling (talk) 10:16, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Not mad at all, LOL ;) Just I try to keep my 'translationish' posts as much on topic as possible, so probably come across more official and impersonal than I really am xD. Don't want to be told off for being OT since I have a habit of rambling! The Mangahead page usually updates with the raw, tho you are right that the thumbnails for 504 are wrong. I have to click through each time to find it XD. I also agree with you about "stern" rather than "solemn" for "gon" but the trouble is Wiki already has "Solemn Spirit" for Gonryoumaru and I didn't want to upset the applecart by questioning this as well. You really do have to squint for the "go" but I'm pretty sure it is there. Easy to see how the scanlators missed it though.Vraieesprit (talk) 12:22, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok let me point out two things here in relation to talks regarding translation in general and specifically on chojiro's page, one that in the event of final translations to be added to an article the admin determine from trusted translators what will be on the site as the final translation. Secondly Adam is that trusted source. He has done great work for the site and its not appreciated to come at him with unnecessary attitude especially over something he wasnt aware of. Simply stating he may have missed something is one thing, but telling him with added attitude that he was wrong as if he should have known the character was wrong with the information he was presented makes no sense. He's nice enough to allow the attitude I on the other hand am not overlooking it, considering he has done more for this site id expect more respect to come his way as he has earned it. If your intention was not to come off in a negative way then you didnt succeed in that regard. --


 * I'm sorry, [***edit for confidentiality***], and sometimes it means I make statements more bluntly than they're meant to be taken. If I said something I shouldn't, then I apologise - I was just adding my contribution to the conversation because I thought we were aiming for accuracy. O.O. In future I won't post anything at all o.O. Vraieesprit (talk) 13:45, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Its not about you not posting anything the fact is that Adam is the lead on translation he doesnt need to be kept in check when it comes to translation we as a site commonly follow him. Simply stating that he may have gotten something mixed up and showing him what it is will be far better then seemingly getting mad at him or whatever. Recall your points where correct it was simply how you were presenting them that was the only thing at issue. Hopefully this is a isolated non-issue and you will continue to contribute on the site.--


 * Well, in case it's in doubt, I wasn't mad at anyone. I was trying to avoid my usual habit of rambling and going off topic by citing simply what we knew. I've no disrespect to Adam or anyone else - its just his source in this case was out of date and that was my real message. If I continue to contribute, am I going to be hauled up by mods every time I post something that's a correction to someone else? Because I can't guarantee I'll know when I'm being too blunt, but it's upsetting getting a message accusing you of being nasty when you'd only been trying to help.Vraieesprit (talk) 14:33, September 2, 2012 (UTC)


 * Only stating there are better ways to present your point, as we encourage being accurate and no you wont get in trouble all the time. we just have to be able to get along you know, if you happen to come off a certain way and as you have explained it i can understand you meant no harm and even stated as much in your response. Its just that we have had issues with users with attitude problems who do nothing but attack and belittle others and we are attempting to curb it and i brought this issue up to you because i dont want you caught up into it seeing is that is not your intention.--


 * All right, thank you for the clarification. Just your original post here upset me because I really didn't mean any harm...I'll try and be more careful in the way I post and hope for the best from now on :) Vraieesprit (talk) 14:46, September 2, 2012 (UTC)