Talk:Zanpakutō/Archive 1

Kenpachi Zaraki
In Forms>Shikai, it is stated that Zaraki is incapable of Shikai, however in Types it is stated that his sword is in a constant Shikai state. Which is correct? Vaizard 05:24, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * From the information in both the anime his Zanpakutō is a constant release and he does not know the name of it what it has been stated is that he is incapable of Bankai WhiteStrike 21:13, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

"Achievement of the shikai is a mark of control of a zanpakutō, and it appears to be a requirement for advancement within the Shinigami ranks, as most (with the notable exception of Kenpachi Zaraki) seated officers and presumably all lieutenants are capable of shikai." It says Zaraki is incapable of Shikai. Vaizard 05:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * After reading the paragraph I re-wrote some of the info on Zaraki and his Shikai as to make it more understandable WhiteStrike 18:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I belive that zaraki is much like ichigo, their zanpaktous are in a constant shikai state. But unlike ichigo, zaraki is unable to communicate with his zanpakou, because of their ideal differences. --Cyberflame 12:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

This was already confirmed when i did the references for Kenpachi in at least two chapters. Salubri 16:17, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Arrancar and Shinigami
Perhaps an idea would be to create a seperate section for arrancar and shinigami. On the page we get tonnes of info about Shinigami Zanpakutō, yet only a ressurection section for Arrancar. Just need to know if this is a good idea. Chrono D. 07:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem is that there doesn't seem to be much to add that isn't already in the Resurreccion section. There aren't a lot of sub-divisons of Arrancar release states because they are all basically just variations of the same thing--the Arrancar's original Hollow powers. Any details about individual Zanpakutou are explained in the respective characters' pages.


 * But feel free to prove me wrong; it's not a bad idea at all. LapisScarab 18:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Dual Bladed
I don't think Shuhei's belongs in this category. Shouldn't only Shikai's with two handheld blades go here? Maggosh 17:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

He has a dual blade kusarigama. As you should know Zanpakuto is not limited to be just simple swords. Last checked there was two of them, they have separate handles. Salubri 17:13, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh. Sorry, didn't see it; the right side was cut off. Maggosh 17:14, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, then we may also have to put down Ikkaku' Bankai here. User:Elementite 6:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ikkaku doesn't have two separate blades in shikai so it doesn't count for him. Salubri 17:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I do agree with salubri, but yamamoto did say that ukitake and kyoraku have the only dualtype zanpaktous in whole of soul society --Cyberflame 12:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

That was also well before any other arc. later additions wouldnt be considered as well why would he even consider to speak on a lieutenants zanpakuto, seriously doubt it would matter to him. Not to mention its evident that hisagi doesn't normally release his. Considering how early it was when Yamamoto said it id take it with a grain of salt, mainly because alot happened in the arc that previously wasnt done before.Salubri 16:21, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I know this has been resolved but I just wanted to add that technically what Yamamoto said still holds true. Kyoraku and Ukitake are the only ones with duel swords. Hisagi has a Kusarigama-like weapon. While he does wield dual Kusarigama, each of which in turn has a double blade, they aren't swords. It's a very different and unique weapon. So, even if Yamamoto had remembered Hisagi's shikai (I think Yamamoto is probably the only person who knows the shikai and the bankai of all captains and vice-captains), it didn't really have any bearing on his comment because he was talking about twin swords. Not twin weapons in general. Tinni 02:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I know that I came in a little late for this but I agree with Tinni, it may be a different subbing group or not but what I saw was sword even though Hisagi has two weapons in shikai they are not swords.--SalmanH 19:01, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Shouldnt Kensei Muguruma be added to the list of dual-blade users?--SkyFlicker 21:41, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

No, & this argument has been resolved. Kensei was only dual in his Bankai, but the others are all dual types in their Shikai. If the other 3 ever have their Bankai revealed & the cease to being dual type, we will consider it. Minato88 22:07, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Hisage = Dual Blade - I have 2.5 reasons why not:
 * 1) Whan Shunsui and Jushiro are about to face him, Yamamoto says theirs are the only dual Zanpakuto.
 * 2) Hisagi's release command is one word, contrary to Shunsui's and Jushiro's which are double chants.
 * 3) (SPOILER: Ep. 246) In the filler Shunsui and Jushiro's Zanpakuto had twin spirits. Hisagi's had just one

Sorry for starting a new topic, I didn't notice the ongoing one.Weedefinition Weedefinition 15:19, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Technically hisagi has four blades.--SalmanH 20:02, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Ah u must have seen the talk on his talk page. I have been thinking about changing it from Dual-Bladed to just Dual-Zanpakuto. Technically in the English dub Yamamoto referred to Sogyo No Kotowari and Katen Kyokotsu by this. So I don't see the problem. Shuhei's Zanpakuto may not be Dual-bladed but it is NOT BY ANY MEANS LIKE THE OTHER ZANPAKUTO. If moved out of the Dual-bladed type it would have to have a category all its own as Kazeshini is unique. Also Kusarigam normally have one blade and there are only one of them. Shuhei has two two blades Kusarigama so its a multi bladed Weapon. And while we are on the multi-bladed subject, Sogyo No Kotowari also has four blades. The two small and technically unusuable ones on the back of his blades. So PLEASE, PLEASE just let me name it Dual-Zanpakuto. I can't see anyone arguing with this. Minato 20:17, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

The Issue stems from the fact that he is one of few characters (shunsui and ukitake) that have two weapons in shikai release, hence his inclusion in the sub-category. On the bases of number of blades alone and the fact that in shikai it's technically not a sword any longer but a variant kusari-gama much like ikkaku's becomes a variant naginata. So I see the argument for that being why some feel that it doesn't belong in the category. Though the argument that Yamamoto didn't mention it is a pointless one as it happened in the soul society arc, why would he bother to concern himself with what a lieutenant is wielding and foremost Kubo is known for coming up with story line ideas as they come to him and rarely has anything pre planned before he does it. Therefore he may just have thought of those two at the time and changed his mind later. Also totally unlrelavent is the length of his release command. Also we don't know if having more then one zanpakuto spirit is a factor espcially considering it doesnt explain how he still has two weapons. But in any case considering the issue being so big. He can be removed though, I dont think it would be a good idea to do so unless the picture depicting the three can be changed to just ukitake and shunsui. Salubri 20:44, December 5, 2009 (UTC)
 * One of the unnamed shinigami from episode 250, has a pair of twin Zanpakutō. Simant 23:56, December 27, 2009 (UTC)

Individual Zanpakutō Articles...
Should we create them? I'm conflicted on the idea, and because of the recent Zanpakutō popularity poll, I want to know someone else's opinion on the matter. Some Zanpakutō like Zabimaru, Zangetsu and Hyōrinmaru could deserve separate articles since their spirits have been seen, while those like Senbonzakura (& maybe Ashisogi Jizō) have multiple abilities that require more space. The Zanpakutō are technically spirits after all, and Bleach is chock full of those. Getsuga Tenshō(note the internal link) is the only technique from a Zanpakutō that has it's own article, so why not at least Zangetsu?(it could be like the Hollow Ichigo Article)--Renji Abarai 08:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

We kinda been down that road. Someone did that to the entire powers section on ichigo's profile. Not only was that wrong but it just made no sense. No matter how popular or important ichigo is, he doesn't get his own powers section. It also made it more messy. Im not really sure why the Getsuga Tensho has its own page, it seems more like a totally unnecessary reason to do what i was just saying. But either way it seems to be there because of the hollow ichigo article. There would really just be no room for it. For example how often do we see Toshiro use his zanpakuto in comparison to Ichigo, all you can say about the zanpakuto on Ichigo's page is a lot of basic fact, if it had its own page it would become a page mixed with speculation, the area on his page is kinda long winded as it is because what we know of it is prominent compared to others. Besides there is no full info on a zanpakuto's but ichigo's and u never know when you'll get more. So far you've listed 4 people outta how many people. What about their zanpakuto requires more space really, that cant be placed on the page. My point is what's the point of doing something like that, it kinda leads to making a page for every piece of information you put down. Then you get totally irrelivatyant pages and only 4 people get actual pages for theirs and no one else's cause there isn't available information on theirs to warrant them having their own page. The better question is what more information needs to be under the category that cant be put there that should justify it having its own page. I say no it shouldn't be a separate page. There's a page for zanpakuto already just like there's a page for cero. Every variation of cero gets listed under it maybe with its own page link depending on its importance but in most cases its something possessed by multiple users. While every shinigami has a zanpakuto they each have a different one unique to them. You cant really do something to showcase a handful over the majority especially when there would be so many important characters left out cause of lack of information.Salubri 10:10, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm with Salubri. Making separate articles for a Zanpakuto, doesn't matter if it's Zangetsu or Oomaeda's Gegetsuburi is just senseless and unnesessary. I think we must keep zanpakuto's info as an adressed section in it's respective wielder page, because those pages shouldn,t be shortened. In the past, some users done separate pages for zanpakuto's and we just redirected all of them 'cause those pages just display redundant info (the copy and paste technic to be exact). I don't see any point in doing a separate article for zanpakutos. Also i don't see any point in doing separate articles for EVERY single section of the best articles we already have (specially in Ichigo's one, with the exeption of Ichigo's relationships one). Yeah, we would have a lot of pages, but the majority of them would be short pages or even Stubs. So my answer is No, we shouldn't create separate pages for zanpakuto's, but i think we could create Zangetsu's spirit (aka Old man Zangetsu) own page, because he's actually a separate character, but the powers and abilities of Ichigo's zanpakuto should stay in Ichigo's page. Just my opinion. Maul day 11:55, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Maul day and Salubri. we tried it before and it wasn't a good idea. Having the Zanpakuto included in its own article makes it better for the reader since they don't have to be going back and forth between pages to find the info the want, kepping it together just makes more sense. To little info is know on each individual Zanpakuto so not enough info for even it's own article and like you mention am not really sure why there's an article on Getsuga Tensho but i think is something that we let go for so long is a little hard to just delete that article by now. I might agree to giving old man Zangetsu his own page since he has he's own identidy which is the reason Hollow Ichigo has an article but there are no other Zanpakuto that have shown any info on their spirit we seen Zabimaru but what do we really know about him other than how he looks? for now we keep the Zanpakuto with their respective owners in that page no need to create senseless articles. WhiteStrike 13:48, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I figured I was not the first to suggest it. I mean, I want us to reach 500 articles, but I do not want to create irrelevant articles that can be easily merged with character pages. The only reason it crossed my mind was the Getsuga Tensho Article, and I thought why not have a Zangetsu page?--then it expanded to all Zanpakutō w/ the recent fan poll. Thanks plenty for the advice. Renji Abarai 19:38, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Shunsui's Command-less Shikai
In the latest chapter it appears that Shunsui releases his zanpakuto without speaking its rather drawn out release command - should this be added to the section that mentions Renji doing the same? Mohrpheus 03:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

What ill say is no its not necessary. Its not impossible for one who is in touch with their zanpakuto and skilled in its use to be capable of the bringing it out without saying anything. Salubri 06:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I would like to bring something up there. In the trivia section of the Kira Izuru's page, as well as those of Hinamori, someone mentioned that only people who have attained bankai can release their shikai without using the release command. Where did this come from? I understand that to release you zanpakuto without saying the release phrase means you are highly tuned with your zanpakuto but I don't remember reading anywhere ONLY those who have bankai can release their shikai without using the release command. Just curious to know the source. Tinni 03:05, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Byakuya in his fight versus Renji is surprised that he stooped his shikai with his own without using a command phrase, denoting that one cannot do such unless they have achieved bankai. Its further elaborated on in the anime.Salubri 03:39, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Where did this come from
When did the following statement come from: ''Though rare, it is not uncommon for more than one soul to be attuned to the same spirit. In such cases ancient law of the Soul Society will not allow two beings to wield the same zanpakutō, in which case they must duel for ownership of the spirit, with the winner gaining it and the loser being sentenced to death.'' I do not remember reading it, and it seems to contradict other statements about zanpakutos. Should it be removed? --Reflections 04:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * While the wording in the first part of that sentence contradicts itself (it should be "Though rare, it is not impossible..."), it comes from the DiamondDust Rebellion movie. Toshiro Hitsugaya and Sojiro Kusaka both came in contact with Hyorinmaru, and Central 46 forced them to fight for ownership of the spirit. Arrancar109 04:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Bad example

 * "This is not the case for all bankai however as some bankais, like that of Kaname Tousen, are completely unrelated to their shikais."

Tosen's bankai actually is related to his shikai: his primary shikai ability involves him overwhelming the senses to knock out the victim. His bankai nullifies all of the victim's senses, which is essentially an upgrade from his shikai. If this statement is to hold any water, there needs to be a better example. I can't think of any. --れび (talk to Lavi!) 20:19, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I don't see the big connection between an ability that overloads the opponent's hearing/shoots out many blades and an ability that deprives of their senses completely while depriving the sword of its other abilities. However, a better example would be that Soifon's shikai, ideal for assassinations, doesn't relate to her bankai, which is of course, a giant missile launcher that could hardly be used stealthily. But, it would probably be better to remove that statement all together. Mohrpheus 20:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Tosen's zanpakuto is based around the manipulation of the senses, though the raining swords is an odd inclusion to its list of abilities (perhaps it hints Tosen's sense of justice is ironically blinding him? *speculation*). Anyways, the statement should be reworded rather than omitted, since its an obvious observation worded rather poorly and/or confusingly. Perhaps removing this one, then adjusting some other sentence to say that shikai and bankai tend to relate to each other in terms of abilities. That way, there is room to say that shikai and bankai do not absolutely have to be related, but the most common trend is that they are. --れび (talk to Lavi!) 22:08, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Zanpakutō's physical manifestations
Is it too soon to be adding pictures of the new physical forms of the Zanpakutō spirits from episode 230? Ultimt evil 16:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

It's already been done, but we don't put them in the character/"owners'" articles, since this is the debut for most of the zanpakuto, and some of their forms (namely Hyorinmaru and Zabimaru) contradict their earlier appearances. Each spirit has their own article now (minus Zangetsu, who has not shown signs that he has rebelled yet), but it they're title like this: Tenken (spirit), not Tenken. If the "spirit" part isn't in your search, they'll redirect to the characters who wield the zanpakuto, not their zanpakuto spirits. Arrancar109 16:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

I can see that now, but when I posted this I didnt see any links to the (spirit) pages on the character pages. I also searched Muramasa and it came up with nothing. Regardless, they're there now so it doesn't really matter either way. The new forms may just be from whatever Muramasa's powers consist of and whatever process he goes through to extract the spirits, but that is all speculation and has no solid evidence backing it up. Not trying to claim it as fact. Just a vague guess on my behalf. Ultimt evil 10:28, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Zanpaktou change
In the main Zanpakuto article, it is specifically stated that a Zanpakuto, being part of the owners soul, is virtually effortless to wield for it's Shingami. So why do the Zanpakuto articles about particularly large Zanpakuto does it compliment the wielder for being able to use the "heavy" weapon efficiently? The same with accrediting Renji's swordsmanship skills to his unusual shikai. As these weapons are part of their souls, then shouldn't this come naturally?--Ulquiorra Wannabe128 18:00, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Well the best idea is when they talk about wielding these weapons its meant to address the skill of the wielder not take anything away from the fact that its obviously not heavy for him. Its like an outside perspective for anyone else that must be heavy but considering no one can use another zanpakuto i would guess that it doesn't make sense to put that down. As far as renji's there is nothing to would suggest that a shinigami automatically has skill in fighting with his zanpakuto, training in sword fighting is the same as training with the use of the zanpakutos abilities, it takes time and practice. He wasn't automatically good if the new arc shows anything its that as much as they know of each other shinigami and zanpakuto spirit. They are separate beings that have their own mind and way of doing things, its only through mutual cooperation that something can happen. Kenpachi doesnt know what his sword is truely capable of and for a time ichigo didnt know the power that can come from knowing and communication with the zanpakuto.Salubri 18:23, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Not Yet Achieved to Status Unknown?
For Bankai, the status of the Vizards are 'Not Yet Achieved'. Should this be changed to 'Status Unknown'? For all we know, they could have achieved it over the some 100 years.

We've discussed this before. If it's not explicitly clear that they've learnt it (either we've seen it or we've been told they've got it), then we say they don't have it. All such judgements are of course subject to change when we find out more. TomServo101 15:03, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Kyoraku's zanpakuto
Well it's not wind based so I took it out and put it in unknown. Question is can we call it Kido-based or do we make a new category that says it's "game-base"? I am inclined to think kido-based is covers it. Tinni 13:45, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I agree, Kyorakus Zanpakuto appears to be Kido based. I mean, what else could it be? --JezzaRules2 14:02, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, I wasn't sure before, but having read the spinning top analogy to his tornado move (think it's Takaoni), it makes a lot more sense to me now. So yes, categorising it as kido based would, imo, be the best action for now. Hopefully we'll get more info next week, but hey, talk about original! TomServo101 14:25, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Alright, I'll move it to Kido for now. If anyone has anything else to add, please use this section. Thank you. Tinni 15:29, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

unknown till otherwise or melee till otherwise
I am talking of course about the zanpakutos of Lisa, Hiyori, Isane and Chōjirō. They are all listed under unknown as we have so far only seen them be released and never seen them in action. My question is, do we leave them in unknown or move them to melee until we are told otherwise? Tinni 13:17, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I'd class them as melee for now. At the moment we have nothing to even suggest that they have abilities, so on that basis, I say melee until otherwise proven. (PS sorry, I changed the page before you finished writing this). --Yyp 13:22, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Well in that case, for the sake of consistency we should probably move Isane and Chōjirō, too. I mean, we don't know if they have any abilities either. I am in favour of melee until otherwise too, but I also think we need to be consistent. Tinni 13:25, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I hadn't noticed them in it. --Yyp 13:34, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, since their abilities weren't shown, I think we should keep them under the "Unknown" class. I mean yeah, it looks like they are Melee-type zanpakuto's I'll admit, but then again, so does Yumichika's. We should probably wait until we see what kind of special attacks they're capable of. Arrancar109 13:29, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I am happy either way. But again for the sake of consistency we should probably move Iba down to unknown as well. I mean, most likely he is a melee type given he is ex-squad 11 but we don't even know his release phase or his zanpakuto name. We just saw it released a few times. Tinni 13:42, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Hinamori's zanpakuto
I could have sworn Hinamori had a fire-type zanpakuto. In fact I went and checked episode 224 and the corresponding chapter 334 and in both she seemed to be lobbing balls of fire. In fact, isn't Tabiume lobbing balls of fire in the new zanpakuto filler arc? Tinni 02:16, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * That's a good question. Like Salubri once suspected, an element-type zanpakuto may be a sub-type to Kido-type zanpakutos. But we never received any real confirmation on (the example is Maki Ichinose), so we never had that truly resolved. Either way though, I'd say Hinamori's is a Kido-type, given how she uses it in the Fake Karakura arc. I would also make the argument about the color of the fireballs, but last I checked, that changed when Hinamori returned to battle in the anime. Arrancar109 02:22, September 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * I know what you mean. Her "ball" was pink originally but by now it's pretty orange and looks like a ball of fire. Also what seems to have happened in Fake Karakura town is that she sent fire through the kido net she wove and the Arrancar got caught in. It looked like a fire based explosion. I know this isn't much of a source but in my Bleach Dark Souls game she also manipulates balls of fire (then again Kyoraku has wind based attacks in the game...). Anybody know what was said about her abilities in Bleach book of SOULs? Because I believe that book has a lot of extra information on the shinigami and their abilities but I have never gotten my hands on a fully translated version and I don't read Japanese. Tinni 02:32, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Seriously guys, I know Hinamori's ball was pink back in Soul Society but it does appear to be a fire-type based on recent chapters and she did cause an explosion. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/333/18/ http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/333/19/, in fact chapter 333 was called Ash (Matsumoto) and Salamander (Hinamori). Again, she sends fire down the web http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/334/19/. Indeed, even back in SS arc she was causing explosions http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/101/11/, http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/101/12/. It's a fire based zanpakuto! There really isn't two ways about it. Tinni 15:36, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

This has already been determined to be a kido-type, whether it looks like fire is not the point, its never stated as such and many kido spells can look like something different. (shot of red fire is used alot and it looks like a red orb and then when fired it looks more like a fireball of type) spiritual energy in form of fire balls but it is derived from kido rather then the elemental fire we see from Yama, Amagai or even the stated fire ability of Love's zanpakuto.Salubri 16:19, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Well I maintain it's a fire-type but I won't change the article or anything. But I personally think that's a pretty flimsy line in the sand you are drawing. It's manifests balls of fire thus it's a fire type. That's the logical straight line to draw. I mean, calling it a fire-type doesn't stop it from being a kido-type. It's a kido-type that manipulates fire. But I'll drop it. Tinni 16:38, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Yumichika plant-type
Am I the only one that thinks Yumichika Ayasegawa zanpakuto should be in the plant-type? I mean come on! He even hold up a flower that is the result of his zanpakuto's true power! http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/322/03/ http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/322/04/. It's clearly a plant type. Tinni 15:36, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

No he clearly states its a Kido-type.Salubri 16:19, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

But aren't "plant types" also Kido types? Look the definition of plant types as listed in the article is "Designed for the manipulation of plant growth for offense or defense", he grows a plant by sucking up his opponents reiatsu... I mean seriously, if Yumichka isn't a plant-type then we should get rid of the plant-type category because it's totally meaningless. Tinni 16:36, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing definite to state that kido types are anything other then what they are kido type. Fire has its on category and so does plant neither the two mix unless stated in the manga which its not only once has the connection between kido and light been used to state maki's zanpakuto (thats a connection between kido and elemental zanpakuto only) in the bount arc and that not only anime but its filler and never mentioned again and ties back to nothing we have seen or read. so we leave kido types under their own category unless indicated otherwise. That is why Kenryu is under plant, which it clearly depicts him using flowers and petals though your right he could best be put under kido as well and Enryu is defense (while originally it was thought to be earth, it was stated to be defense in the soccer episode).Salubri 17:00, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah well, I still think that if we are going to have a plant category then Yumichka should fall in it because it's clearly plant based. But you are correct in that he does call it kido type and the plant type thing is something we made up. So I'll drop it. But I must say that the "type" classification is fairly useless at this point if we aren't going to classify zanpakutos that fit the description to a 't' within said description or perhaps what should be done is that we should separate manga zanpakutos from "other media" zanpakutos... meh, I like the zanpakuto list page more then this page anyway. Tinni 17:10, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I think that all of the "made-up" elements just need to be removed. Only the elements directly mentioned in the manga (and the anime, I suppose) should be included. Anything else is technically speculation. Mohrpheus 19:33, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

I don't mean to get involved in something thats not really my business, but i'd like to point something out. Yes, Yumichikas sword once released is some-what plant like. But i'd like to point out that it is very different then Kenryus. Yumichikas glows with a special Kido-Like aura around it(hence why he said its a kido type). It as a base is a plant, but to be honest I don't like the idea of his Zanpakuto being under the plant classification, as i've never seen a plant like his Ruri'iro Kujaku. Minato88 19:36, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Izuru Kira:Kido Type
Can't we classify Izurus Zanpakuto as a Kido-Type? I mean the ability to double the weight of something has got to be derived from Kido. Either that or it is a unique Zanpakuto type & should be classified under its own section. Minato88 06:56, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

We've discussed this before. As he requires a physical blow to use the effect, it was decided back then to keep it as melee. Does anyone feel any differently now? TomServo101 08:33, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Rose Zanpakuto;Plant Type?
Do you reckon Rose's Zanpakuto should be classified as plant type? I just noticed it looks like a vine with a flower attached to the end of it. Also his ability is named "Sixteen Night Rose" which could have a reference in its plant properties (the ability is still unclear in the manga). What does anyone else think?--JezzaRules2 13:16, October 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the way I look at it is that we should not take the name or release command of a Zanpakuto as evidence of what its abilities are. As seen with the Zanpakuto's of Hisagi, Ukitake & Shunsui, they can be very misleading. Instead, they should only be judged based on what they have been shown to be capable of (or what we are explicitly told they can do). Rose has shown to be able to cause explosions and whip opponents. Nothing plant/earth-element about that. So, no it should not be classed as a plant-type. The existing plant type actually used abilities involving plants, whereas Rose's simlpy looks a bit like one and has a plant included in its name. If he demonstrates any plant-based abilities, or somehow in the story says that it is plant-based, then yes, it can be added as a plant-type, but right now, no. --Yyp 13:50, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Techniques section
I want to add a technique section to this page that discusses different types of techniques. For example, many Zanpakuto have an extendable attack in their Shikai or resureccion: Renji, Gin, Marechiyo, Toshiro (the kama on his hilt), Cirucci and Nirgge are the ones I can remember right now.

Another brand of technique is the fail safe or last resort techniques, like Renji's Higga Zekko, Rukia's third dance and Mayuri's self destruction of the weapon should it turn on him.

There are also techniques that do not coincide with their pronounced type. Tosen's Zanpakuto is not a projectile type, but it does have a projectile technique. Weedefinition 19:01, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like forum stuff. Speculate on the Watercooler.Salubri 19:10, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Will do Weedefinition 22:50, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

Soifon:Kido-type or poison type?
Given that Katen Kyokotsu was proven to be a Kido-type instead of a Wind-type Zanpakuto, should we consider Soifon's a Kido-type as well? Jakuho Raikoben fires a powerful, seemingly non-poison projectile, so I think it's reasonable, but that's just me. Thoughts? Arrancar109 23:08, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

We dont know what it fires besides it being a missile and thats not kido it cant be determined its ability in shikai is based on getting a hit while in bankai its the same but only once and from range. Seemingly derived from poison in shikai and who knows in bankai but kido wouldn't be a fair assessment. Katen Kyokotsu is obviously kido based (Reality manipulation via being in its reiatsu). Salubri 23:17, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Suzumebachi did not even use poison canonically; I've never seen a poison that causes a person to explode into a hornet crest. Personally, I don't think it should be given a classification at all, since one has not been explicitly stated. But since the series classifies the kido category as any zanpakuto that relies on its special ability, Soifon's fits the bill. Mohrpheus 23:20, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

True but its not questionable information beyond that its already under poison being under kido is a broad topic rather then specific one. If poison is not good enough then kido is no better so the best alternative will be to place it unknown. Salubri 23:26, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Then rather than create an "unknown" section, shouldn't any zanpakuto with an unidentified type in the series be omitted? In addition, the revealed types should at least have references with the place in the anime/manga that they are mentioned, otherwise the classifications themselves would be speculative. I don't remember a "projectile" type ever being mentioned. Mohrpheus 23:33, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

I actually have to agree with Mohrephus on this one. We know Gin's zanpakuto seems to be for melee attacks, but it is classified in the Unknown section. Since we have this section, we should be generous with it. The 4th Hokage 23:37, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

We all happy now no one else fight over whose possibly listed under what if its ambiguous. Salubri 23:59, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Shikai section
At the end of the second paragraph in the Shikai section it says However, not knowing the name of one's zanpakutō can put you at a disadvantage in terms of power against those who do know their Zanpakutō's name. I think that the word 'you' should be remove and replace with 'a Shinigami'. I think the sentence should be more like this However, not knowing the name of one's zanpakutō can put a Shinigami at a disadvantage in terms of power against those who do know their Zanpakutō's name. --Tripodssj6 17:04, December 5, 2009 (UTC)


 * Fixed. -- Yyp  (Talk)  17:41, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Projectile
Whatever happened to the projectile section? I thought Matsumoto, Byakuya, and the fat guy uryu killed were supposed to have their zanpakuto in that section...???Benihime101 20:27, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

As far as I know, Haineko and Senbonzakura have never been identified as projectile-type zanpakuto, despite their ranged abilities. The fat guy's was explicitly called a "projectile-type" by one of the Bleach databook equivalents, hence the only reason the type is mentioned in the first place. Mohrpheus 23:31, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

And is Muramasa an "illusion-type" zanpakuto? Just wondering. Benihime101 21:22, December 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it would be, since that is what Ginrei (or was it Yamamoto?) called it. Though I personally would not have called it that, it is what is stated in the story, so that is what we go with. I'll make the change. -- Yyp  (Talk)  21:40, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

ichimaru gin,melee?
I'm not shure, but in my point of view, gin's zanpakutou is melee, since all of his attacks consist in hittin the opponent with his blade even when it grows bigger.I know that the growing thing is a bit strange, but zangetsu also have non-melee abilites(getsuga tenshou), and is on the melee category. --Noyas 13:05, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

under "the melee type" it is written:Are typically designed for various forms of armed melee combat rather than magic-based abilities. gin's zanpakuto matches exactly with this sentence.--Noyas 21:49, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Gin's zanpakuto is designed around an ability. He has only been shown using it at range due to that ability. If anything it would more likely be kido-based. But that cannot be determined as of yet with such little evidence to go on. Salubri (Talk)  22:51, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

4th dual blade wielder
In ep 250 there is a shinigami who has 2 zanpakuto's. Look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiBhM3V0otQ about 5:12 (it's #251 but there is a flash back from #250) Geohound 12:15, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

No one cares about a rank and file shinigami from a filler episode who didn't even release his zanpakuto and thus the second sword might well have been an ordinary sword. Tinni  (Talk)  13:23, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

We only include named characters. -- Yyp  (Talk)  14:52, December 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Still IMO we should put this in trivia. Geohound 21:00, December 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * See my comment regarding we don't know if they are both zanpakutos or not. I mean, in the filler Amagai dual wielded but one of them was a bakuda or whatever that was called. We can't be sure both those were zanpakutos so its not going in the trivia. Tinni   (Talk)  04:27, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

Shinji
Isn't Shinji's zanpakuto an illusion type?--B14 12:55, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Technically both Aizen's and Shinji's can be considered illusion-type. Now as far as I know, Aizen never came out and said his zanpakuto is kido based and Shinji just compared his zanpakuto to Aizen's. So whatever happens we should probably keep those two zanpakutos together. So technically we could classify it as illusion-type but since "illusion-type" was only ever mentioned in an anime filler, it would be hard to justify classing a manga zanpakuto into that category. It is because of the difficulty of classifying zanpakutos that I personally feel that this whole type thing should just be done away with, EXCEPT for zanpakutos which have explicitly been classified in the manga. Tinni  (Talk)  13:19, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

I agree that Aizen & Hirako should be kept together. Illusion type has never been mentioned in the manga, so I don't think it can be used to describe Aizen/Hirako. Sensory manipulation and illusions are two different things in my mind. I see Aizen has been moved to the illusion section, so I'll move it back. -- Yyp  (Talk)  14:52, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

It seems we get really concerned with specifics to the point that we get mad. I dont think there is an issue of whether or not to split them up they are obviously together. The point is that anything that revolves around an ability is a kido type in general while specifics are good until we know for sure general classification will have to do.IT would seem everything is classified as either melee/kido/ or element with element and kido seemingly closely linked. Though i think what throws us off is the ones we cant put are finger on, which provides more confusion as some seem like possible mixes between the categories. Both Shinji's and aizens both work on the similar principles and they both are zanpakuto that are defined by the ability they possess making them kido, Any more detailed then that we cant determine.Salubri (Talk)  15:29, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Chōjirō Sasakibe, eletricity type
in the zanpakuto arc, his zanpakuto is definetly an eletricity based zanpakutou, and I know that it is filler, but I think that they won't change it.--Noyas 14:28, December 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * His Zanpakuto spirit uses electricity, but there is nothing to suggest that Sasakibe does. Until the day that he uses electric powers in the manga, we will not be including it here. -- Yyp  (Talk)  14:37, December 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Same as Koma'a Zanpaktou. In manga he can't use fire.. Geohound 20:59, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

"Sode no Shirayuki" mistranslation
袖白雪 translates to "Sleeve's White Snow"/"White Snow of the Sleeve". The possessive particle "no" operates backwards in comparison to its English counterpart "of". Please fix. MarqFJA 11:25, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to edit a closed discussion. But I just felt that it needed to be clarified that per the discussion on Rukia's Talk page, the agreed upon translation for Sode no Shirayuki is Sleeved White Snow NOT Sleeve's White Snow. I have changed the result of the discussion to reflect this. Tinni  (Talk)  01:31, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Zanpakutō spirits
Is there a specific Japanese equivalent for "zanpakutō spirit" in the original anime/manga, or is the term itself English dub-exclusive? Just curious. MarqFJA 14:43, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

A zanapakuto spirit is referred to on numerous occasions in the manga and anime entirely before the filler arc. Salubri (Talk)  22:51, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

I know that. I'm talking about whether or not specific terminology is used. MarqFJA 12:37, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

They just say spirit of the zanpakuto as far as i have seen in the manga. Salubri (Talk)  14:26, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

SHUNKO TYPES ?
as you all know shunko is a technique were kido and hakuda are combined. So since ichigo's sword zangetsu is said to be a melee type and has a kido attack, the getsuga tensho.An other example is izuru kira's wabisuke where its power is kido based doubling the weight of wat ever it strikes,and he can only use it at close range? since there is a kido type and melee type swords,why cant there be a shunko type?

Well maybe thats because we don't make it a point to just make up whatever we like this for one is not a fan fiction wiki. On top of that Kido are spells the bleach universe's version of magic. Ichigo has a melee zanapkuto it in fact has no kido properties. Getsuga tensho is just his spiritual energy being gathered and used as a ranged blast. With Kira's wabisuke its use is based around an ability which defines a kido type zanpakuto regardless of having to have physical contact so its probably closer to that but it can't be determined as such just yet. Also Shunko is a mix of kido and hakuda. Not swordsmanship, Hakuda is a specialized form of martial arts such as karate or kung fu. It is entirely hand to hand which makes its mix with kido to create shunko entirely new and rare (hence only Yoruichi and Soifon). Any use of swords is swordsmanship (zanjutsu). Neither is even in the same category. Salubri (Talk)  23:15, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Locked Page
Why exactly is the page locked? There are a few mistakes with spelling and its been kinda buggin' me. if anyone knows, please tell.Tensa Zabimaru 07:12, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Mainly cause its still under maintenance and reference. What mistakes are you referring to?Salubri (Talk)  07:50, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Nothin much. Just hitsugaya's bankai name and that zennosuke guy's release command. but there could be more.Tensa Zabimaru 09:54, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Then You have been saved a waste of your time, All zanpakuto names are correct as per translation. Especially Hitsugaya's. Had you changed it, it would have just been reverted. Salubri (Talk)  10:12, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that hitsugaya's bankai is daiguren hyorinmaru not diguren and zennosuke's release command is good morning not good mourning.Tensa Zabimaru 07:16, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Oh ok got you I thought you meant the translations. Ok good eyes didn't even notice that well they are both fixed thanks. Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  07:34, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

No prob. don't worry, if you need any help, holler.Tensa Zabimaru 10:39, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Hinamori's Zanpakuto, officially a fire type


I know I brought this up before and that discussion didn't go anywhere because I couldn't find any official source for claiming it's a fire type, well now I do have an official source! Bleach: Book of SOULs page 131. The little bit on Tobiume states, "It releases fire balls from its blade". For you consideration, I have placed an image of the relevant info box to the right. I would also like to point out that her Zanpakuto was never stated to be a kido type anywhere. It was such that the anime team initially depicted the balls released from her zanpakuto as pink, giving the impression that she was channeling her kido through her Zanpakuto. Well, she's not. She's releasing fire balls and so there is zero evidence that Tobiume does anything other then manipulate fire. Like I said before, she did cause an explosion.http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/333/18/ http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/333/19/, in fact chapter 333 was called Ash (Matsumoto) and Salamander (Hinamori). Again, she sends fire down the web http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/334/19/. Indeed, even back in SS arc she was causing explosions http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/101/11/,http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/101/12/. It's a fire based zanpakuto! Tinni  (Talk)  11:45, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Zanpukuto deaths
"A Zanpakutō's shape and abilities are based on their Shinigami's soul. Once a Shinigami learns his swords name, they are able to communicate with one another and grow stronger together. Zanpakutō are born with their Shinigami and they die with their Shinigami. Shinigami use them in battle as a reflection of their heart. When released, they can display a vibrant power. They are one with the Shinigami. They share a Shinigami's conviction." -the article.

If this is true, then could someone please explain how Tousen was able to take his dead friend's Zanpukuto as his own? If the above is true, then Tousen's Zanpukuto is his own, and the katana he has is simply a new body for his Zanpukuto.. But as we have been led to believe the Zanpukuto is that of his dead friends, according to the article regarding his Zanpukuto ("The ring itself plays a vital role in the activation of Tōsen's Bankai. It is unknown whether this is the Zanpakutō of Tōsen's own soul or the one he took from the grave of his friend."). This leads me to believe that the Zanpukuto does not die with the owner. This means that at least one piece of information is wrong in one of the articles, unless other methods of mastering a Zanpukuto exist, in which case elaboration on such techniques is neccessary, even if it's just limited to the talk page. SquirrellyWrath 02:33, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Ok this issue has been brought up so long ago, but here it goes again. There is no definitive proof that Tosen has the zanpakuto of his dead friend. There at most is a few shots of the sword laying upon her burial area. It is never stated or brought up later, nor was she ever seen with it. It is just as likely that he placed it there as a sign of respect and then picked it up after he left. We never see that much, to even make that determination. But the notion that it is her's is largely based on a couple of pics that are ambiguous at best. The information in article is correct as it is from the series. As far as Tosen is concerned that concept was taken out of his page cause as I stated that can't be proven. Nor if it could doesn't account for all zanpakuto. The problem is that there is largely no information on Tosen that far back. We know his friends story for the most part and her affect on his life but the details are gone and seeing as he is now dead there is not likely going to be any resolution. Other then this im not sure what else there is to say about the situation. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  05:00, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

And just as you said there is no definitive proof that Tousen has his dead friend's Zanpukuto, there is also no solid proof that the opposite is true, either. Perhaps the orthodox method of subjugating the Zanpukuto means it dies when the Shinigami dies, and Tousen's friend mastered her Zanpukuto in a more unorthodox manner which allowed the spirit to somehow survive at least long enough for Tousen to claim it as his own. It's a solid theory. Simply because it is not stated in a book does not mean it does not exist. Perhaps the 46 saw the subjugation method as the safest and or quickest way of mastering the Zanpukuto, or most Shinigami would rather subjugate their blades rather than use other methods. Either way, it would make sense; if her Zanpukuto survived after her death, it is because she used a non-standard method.

Oh, and out of curiosity, why would you place something on a grave only to take it out again? It's just disrespectful, if you ask me. No way would Tousen have done that. The pre-Gotei Tousen, I mean. After Aizen got to him, who knows... SquirrellyWrath 17:18, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Regarding your first paragraph: We do not allow speculation on the articles, only confirmed facts. This is set out in the manual of style and the speculation policy (policies can be accessed via the community tab in the sidebar). You admit that it is just a theory (which is essentially just speculation). There is absolutely no evidence that it was her zanpakuto (don't you think it would have been explained or mentioned if it was hers before Tosen died?). As for the final point: that is not relevant to this article and belongs in the forums. -- Yyp (Talk) 17:28, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yyp is completely right on the first part of the your concept as for the second it you are again stating a theory that has no more bases in fact we dont speculate on the articles the information given does not in any way prove that it belonging to her. While you can say the same of the other concept it is not presented either so there is no issue. No mention of it at all because there is nothing to state any case. Also thats your personal view of what you may have done in the sitaution or what tosen may have done but that is neither fact either its not disrespectful to put roses on a coffin or cards or keepsakes in the coffin of dead friend or family member. While a zanpakuto is a weapon it is a close and personal partner to a shinigami as well. There are a number or funeral rights throughout the world, whose to say that any of them are wrong. But just as unlikely as you claim it is it is also very likely, whose to say. In any case that was not presented in the article either so its a non-issue. But please refer to the regular forum where you can discuss such concepts as this has gone beyond a simple question of page content which is what this category is for not for debate. Thank you. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  17:57, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Aizen's Illusion Zanpakuto
Aizen has an illusion type zanpakuto, but it's not in the illusion type area. I didn't know if there was a reason for this or if it was just overloooked, so I'm just mentioning. Kingofdanerds 16:51, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

As "Illusion-type" was introduced in an anime filler, the general consensus is that Aizen (and Shinji's) zanpakutos will remained classified as Kido types. Tinni  (Talk)  16:53, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Following the introduction of the Anime Policy, Aizen and Shinji's zanpakutos have been classified as illusion type as per the rules of the policy, we they are illusion types until manga says otherwise. Tinni  (Talk)  20:14, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Soifon is not poison
I would like to point out that in chapter 391, Aizen survived Soifon's Nigeki Kessatsu by "suppressing her attack with his reiatsu" because her attack was based off her reiatsu. That would seem to indicate that Soifon is not poison based but Kido based. As far as I know, anyone who is exposed to Mayuri's poison is effected by it. They can't suppress it's effect using their reiatsu. Although in the filler Kenpachi was able to keep the poison away from himself using his reiatsu or something like that but its still not what Aizen did. As far as I can work out, Soifon being poison type was based off the Bount filler when she neutralized the poison in her body using her zanpakuto. I don't think the manga ever said it was poison type. Moreover, Soifon mentions "perfecting" her technique to Yoruichi and thus being able to maintain her hommaks indefinetly. Which again indicates that her zanpakuto is kido based and through manipulation of kido, she can keep the hommacks on or take them off. Anyway, just though I would mention it. Tinni  (Talk)  17:05, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

While you don't need to point that out as I read the same thing. Your not right in your observation. Any Zanpakuto that is designed around an ability is kido based. Some have specific categories as listed. It does not make them any less Kido based, it makes them a sub-section of kido. Ch 391 does not detail what type of zanpakuto soifon has, only that Aizen survived it, which states a common fact about Shinigami in general. All you need do is look on the Shinigami article to read all their abilities run on spiritual energy including their zanpakuto. Aizen's situation is based soley on the fact that he has more spiritual power then her so he trumps her ability, similar to what Kenpachi explained to Ichigo when they first fought. Also Soifon mentioning perfecting her technique has no barring on what type of zanpakuto that she has. All Shinigami work to perfect their powers and use of them. Rukia didn't learn her third dance until the hueco mundo arc. The Homonka's are marks of indication that she has hit her target so she can prepare for her second strike, nothing more. Her ability over them is no indication of its type but rather more to do with the mechanics of her control over his zanpakuto. Noting any different then byakuya's ability to control senbonzakura or Rangiku's control of her haineo. Mayuri's is another zanpakuto. Aizen and Shinji's work on perception but arent the same. Rukia and Hitsugaya's use ice but aren't the same. You stated that Momo is a fire-type, well even still not the same as Yamamoto. Also though not posted with the others, the policy on the anime is currently that if it offers information that is not contradicting to the manga material it is usable even if its filler. So kenpachi using his reiatsu to block Mayuri's poison or byakuya's senbonzakura is allowable just as soifon's counter-poison. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  17:42, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

...I don't say Hinamori has a fire-type zanpakuto, Kubo says Hinamori has a fire-type zanpakuto. If the zanpakuto manifests fire, it's fire-type. If it manifests ice, it's ice-type. If it manifests poison, it's poison type. Soifon's zanpakuto has only been shown to manifest poison in the bount arc. That's fine, I am not saying we can't count that. I am just questioning if the recent manga chapter negates what was said in the bount arc. I mean, once manifested, Hitsugaya's ice is just ice. Same with the fires that come from the fire-type zanpakutos. It stands to reason that once manifested Soifon's poison is just poison and I simply wondered how Aizen could suppress poison that's already in his system. I mean, that's not what Kenpachi did in the recent filler. Kenpachi stopped the poison from entering his system by blowing it away from his and Yachiru's body. Should Kenpachi and Yachiru had come in contact with it, according to Mayuri, they should have been effected. I.e. No matter how great Kenpachi's reiatsu, once Mayuri's poison enters his body, its all over because once manifested Mayuri's poison is just poison and acts like poison. Tinni  (Talk)  02:32, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well I get your point though the problem is that we have no real information on the technical function of Soifon's zanpakuto. Say for the sake of argument if she uses poison then when does it activate in the system. From what we have seen it seems the second hit is the activation of it. But again we dont know the mechanics. All we do know is her explanation about hitting the same spot internally. In the event of what happened with Aizen we have to remember that all their powers run on spiritual power. Whatever she does involves hitting a spot internally in the body. If he can beat it, then whether it is externally or internally it would seem not to matter as regardless it runs on spiritual power that his own trumps. If manga has something that clearly states otherwise then of course it will change. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  02:58, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

I hate to intervene, but I agree with Tinni. My example however, comes from Soifon's fight with Ggio Vega, which as we all know is the only instance of Nigeki Kessatsu succeeding in the manga. If I remember correctly, once the second strike landed, the homonka changed color, expanded and killed him, presumably through vaporization (ironically not elaborated on in any page). Clearly not a poison, though I suppose an "exploding" poison is not outside the realm of possibility. We must also consider the portrayal of Nigeki Kessatsu's effects in the anime; when used against the Bount Mabashi, he was alive long enough to hear Soifon's explanation of her zanpakuto's ability, and then dissolved (but was able to visibily resist its effects until then). My point being, the anime's "dissolving" deaths are radically different from Nigeki Kessatsu's one canon success. We could therefore reason that anything related to Suzumebachi's anime portrayal, namely the poison, is completely inaccurate. This is why categories shouldn't be "created" unless specifically stated by the series; it opens up too much debate on what zanpakuto belong in which categories. Mohrpheus 17:43, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Well thats the issue isn't your totally biased toward the page. If it was up to you there would be no page at all, which leads me to believe you cant make a fair decision here. In any case as per the anime policy her having a poison zanpakuto as insinuated in the anime does not conflict with what little we know of its ability. The affect is death in two steps. Can poison do that yes, is she an assassin yes. Do assassins use poison yes. Is the name of her zanpakuto suzumbachi yes. Are suzumbachi hornets, yes. Do they have venom that comes from a sting yes. Is that what is portrayed of its technique yes. Was so much presented as an explanation in the anime yes. Does the manga state anything along these lines no. Does it conflict at all with what we know of her zanpakuto no. Does it conflict at all with what we know of zanpakuto's in general no. Once again we do not know the mechanics nor can we state the accuracy with what little we know. Some Arrancar disintegrate and some just die like a regular being. Some things are affected certain ways then others. The very concept you use doesn't explain the mechanics at all of the technique to refute what was previously discussed. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  06:34, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Everybody is biased, including you, otherwise drawn-out discussions like these wouldn't even take place. To say that I don't want this page to exist is a ridiculous claim that has no merit; why would I want to get rid of one of the most essential pages on the wikia? I am perfectly willing to admit that my argument was more than a little flawed, perhaps driven by my general dislike of the anime. So I'll use an argument based more on logic: the recently introduced illusion-type category was added to the page, as it is the type of the anime-only Muramasa. However, Aizen and Shinji are omitted from this category, the reason being that "illusion" is an anime-only type. Aizen having an illusion-type does nothing to conflict with the manga, yet it is omitted despite the nature of its abilities being perfectly obvious. This clearly contradicts the case with Suzumebachi, which is only described as a poison-type in the anime, while the nature of its abilities remain ambiguous in the manga. My point is that the anime policy being used as an argument here isn't being treated consistently; that can be said without bias. Mohrpheus 18:16, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Discussions are drawn out for a number of reasons in part to not having the correct information. As far as being biased is concerned this wouldn't be the first time you have voiced issue with the page, it starts to feel as though your going out of your way to pick at things on the page. What Tinni and I where discussing was whether its viable enough information presented in the chapter of her attack on Aizen to determine what kind of zanpakuto it was. The answer is that it clearly isn't a case there to resolve the matter of what type it is. It is a situation of over all power in general. As far as whether or not Aizen or Shinji is illusion based, its clear that they are that much is stated. in fact im not sure why they aren't the category but i will look into it. The more general category is Kido-type and the specific one would be Illusion. That is what I think the misconception about the categories on the page. So they could very well be placed there. There as I said before, nothing in Anime that refutes these claims. In fact in some anime the elaborate further. The question is there anything definitive from manga that counters it. In terms of Soifon. Poison is a more specific term to use there's nothing saying its not in fact as per the guidelines if its found to be something else it will be changed to that. The anime gave us more information then we received. It is detailed as anime only in reference but it is the most information we have. So if there is conflict then it will be handed when it comes to that. As far as what is shown in manga you yourself said its not outside the realm of possibility that its poison. As stated before the full mechanics aren't known. But it is referenced material that is in no conflict. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  18:55, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion, it could be both poison and kido type. My reason is that, Soifon's shikai abilities was based on a BEE that when you get stink by the same bee twice, it would be fatal and at the same time, a kido type, because the poison effect only manifest after the second hit...Famine09 (Talk) 16:33, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * The article clearly states that poison-type is a sub-category of the Kido type. If a zanpakuto is in the poison type, then that means it is listed as a Kido type too, just in a specific section of that category. -- Yyp (Talk) 11:29, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Shinji poison type.
I know that sakanade is in the ilusion type section, but I believe it works like a poison type. It doesn't make no illusions at all, it just releases a gas in the air that make people see wrong. the reality is still the same, only those affected by the gas see the inverted world, of wich Shinji has no control. Noyas 03:50, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * We know that can give off a smell, but we do not know that the smell is the medium through which it affects people or if it always has a smell. And smell does not automatically equal poison. -- Yyp (Talk) 16:05, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo Zanpakuto Type
Ichigo's is both melee and kido because his sword does change size to effect his speed and power, but it also allows him to shoot off getsuga tenshou.Sethgrrr 03:57, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

sigh It is not kido type because it does not use kido in any shape or form. Getsuga Tenshou is merely Ichigo's reiatsu forced through the blade and released in a concentrated blast. Even in his bankai, the manipulation is of his own reiatsu which become compact. It has nothing to do with Kido. Tinni  (Talk)  05:32, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Loss of Communication
In Zanpakuto control, shouldn't we include how it's possible for one to lose communication with their sword if they regularly abuse it (like Koga did to Muramasa) but mention it hs only been shown in the anime? Orochidayu 23:27, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see why not. As long as it's sourced with the proper anime episode and noted in the reference section (so that the article remains in-universe) to be anime-exclusive, then it should be perfectly fine. Mohrpheus 17:27, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

You could also note Kenpaichi as an example. They seem even less communicable.Saimaroimaru 23:40, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

The cases are slightly different, but yeah, Kenpachi is also a good example. He can't tap into his Zanpakuto's full power (though he has a full-time release), just as Koga was unable to release Muramasa. However, Kenpachi didn't lose his connection; he never had it to begin with. I'm pretty sure Kenpachi's case is already in the article... I don't know exactly how Koga's case would fit in. Mohrpheus 23:45, May 28, 2010 (UTC)