Forum:Ichigo's new form (non-wikia talk)

Man, I'm positive that nobody saw this coming. I mean, last week, I was pretty sure Hollow Ichigo was going to make due on his threat to appear if Ichigo was almost killed again (and he still might have), but I'm surprised, to say the least, that Ichigo actually attained a new form. I wonder though... is he in control, is Hollow Ichigo in control, or is he currently in a mindless state? Arrancar109 18:00, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

It's hard to say. Since he wanted to protect Orihime so bad, instead of just wanting to win, he might have some control since he didn't go after the nearest person, which was her. Though with his apparent inability to communicate, this opposes such a theory

I gave my whole two cents on the entire new form in the Ichigo talk page. Kaihedgie 18:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll say this I think its the effect of Hueco Mundo. I mean ever since Chad got there his powers which are more related to a hollows powers have been acting funny and then all of the sudden he's more developed then normal. Ichigo seems like he experiencing something similar. Its hard to gauge what has happened here but best i can make out is this. Over 110 years ago when Aizen was carrying out his experiments and hollowfication first took place in the Vizards, something unique happened and you can see what is happening to Ichigo somewhat the same. Prime example Kensei's transformation was not really that of a actual hollow but like a hollow/shinigami hyprid (with the shinigami being more of a dominant trait because thats what he originally is). In this form kensei was still for all purposes himself but with his appearance taking on hollow characteristics, most notably the mask. Now when you see the current vizards you note them donning the masks. Which allows them access to hollow powers and advances their already considerable power. Without the mask they seem as normal shinigami. It took them fighting their inner hollow for control over their body and powers. But the question then is what happened to that form taken by Kensei originally. Now ichigo is unique in the fact that one he attained hollow powers differently and two he is technically still human though he has gained shinigami powers. What we do know is that the hollow tried to take over and ichigo needed to defeat it as the vizards had done with theirs or it would control him and he would be no more then a hollow. Thats the only way for him to gain control and access to his hollow abilities by use of the mask. The biggest problem for ichigo is he left before shinji could properly train him. It appears he hasnt truly won the war with his inner hollow he has only won a battle. What we also know is that transformation that took place when the vizards fought him when he was fighting his inner hollow. The best guess i can come up with is, that form was a direct result of his inner struggle when he had the upper hand he was fine but when his inner hollow strated beating him you can see the inner struggle turning more on the inner hollows side because the full hollow manifested itself physically. Now this new form seems on par with a shinigami/hollow hybrid as shown when kensei was transformed. It seems to have ichigo's body with hollow characteristics blended in (unlike the previous form this form seems to have a hollow mask but more advanced version then what he had). It seems just as brutal and savage as kensei was, so best guess is this form like kensei's is somewhat the 2nd release if you will of a vizard. The mask gives them access to hollow powers and then after that a second release of some form allows them this form. Salubri 18:27, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Remember after Grimmjow almost killed him during the arrancar arc, Ichigo sustained injuries that contained the Espada'a reiatsu; That is why Hachigen told Rukia to take him elsewhere as they too had reiatsu similar to hollows, and for some reason this could effect him negatively. Later on after Ulquiorra almost killed him Orihime expressed difficulty in healing the wound in his chest because it also had Ulquiorra's powerful reiatsu. Now Ichigo was impaled in the chest in the same manner by the same person, only Ulquiorra was using Segunda Etapa- Ishida compared his reiatsu to an ocean in the sky, so if he was that powerful I think his injury to Ichigo caused so much damage that he's transformed completely into a hollow. Notice his hollow hole did not regenerate like before. Then there is the matter of control: This new Ichigo is different, but he exhibits neither the conscience, reasoning and emotions of Ichigo, nor the malice, blood lust and insanity of Hollow Ichigo. Don't forget the chapter also seemed like when Ichigo was talking to himself, someone, perhaps Zangetsu or Hollw Ichigo, answered back. (Shes calling me.) "Stand Up." (I...)"Stand Up." Regardless of the explanation, the fact is right now in this transformation Ichigo looks like, and definitely has the power of a Vasto Lorde.--Renji Abarai 06:17, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

I still cant figure how everyone goes off in the tangent of hollows and their evolution. I dont care how much hollow abilities he has ichigo is not a hollow. Why is that the first place everyone goes, he must be a hollow cause he transfomed into one once, or he must be a hollow cause he has one in his consciousness. Lets not forget he is not the only one in ther stroyline that has hollow abilities. Whose to say the vizards cant shed light on what is currently happening, its amazing how ichigo so special he totally trumps everything we know so far because its happening to him. Arrancar are subject to hollow evolution and most likely are taken out of the equation when they become arrancar. we have seen him fight all of one manga panel and all the sudden everyone knows the internal process of what his personality is. Its interesting to note that the current transformation only attacks ulquiorra. The biggest issue i think ive had with this new transformation is how everyone immediately goes to, oh he has horns hes a vasta lorde. I can see theres alot of hollows and some arrancar with horns it doesnt make them vaste lorde no matter how much you wish. Lets be honest none of use really know what a vaste lorde looks like, we have only seen the outline of their shape. We also have no real idea of a vaste lordes power. All we know about them is that they are the pinnacle of hollow evolution. There arent many of them. They are more powerful then a single captain of the gotei 13 and that 10 of them could destroy soul society. Other then that we dont know their power level, what they look like or even if they are all the same in appearance or power. What i do know is ichigo isnt even a hollow and regardless of his power the inner hollow or the transformation doesnt warrant him being called anything without proof to that effect. I think we far to often get caught up in how powerful we assume ulquiorra to be, lets not forget ichigo isnt really all that powerful take into account the winning by the skin of his teeth in most battles. He is getting there, but using him to gauge the powers of others probably isnt the best idea cause in truth we dont really know how powerful the heavy hitters really are. Salubri 06:37, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Salubri. Ichigo is not Vasto Lorde since all we know about them is that is the final evolution of Hollows. To become a Vasto Lorde one must have consumed the powers of other Hollows like we saw in Grimmjow's back-story, in facgt I don't think that any of the Espada are former Vasto Lorde since in Nel's Hystory we saw that her mission was to seek out Vasto Lorde meaning she wasn't one and the fact that instead of getting demoted Nnoitra was promoted from 8 to 5 really rules out there being Vasto Lorde in the Espada. The way I see it is if mor powerful guys joined in the the ones at the top would get push back and Nnoitra would have been kick out of the Espada. Now in Ichigo's case it may just be the power of Hueco Mundo affecting his last transformation into a new one just like Chad's power. All in all we'll have to wait on the next chapter maybe even more to really get a view of what Ichigo is now. WhiteStrike 07:05, 20 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I never believed the possibility he would become a hollow until this last chapter, but the only reason I think he might have is because of the whole soul chain argument. I never said Ichigo was a Vasto either, but from the silhouette of a Vasto shown being similar he looks like it. The fact that he is (seemingly)easily overpowering a fully resurrected Ulquiorra makes him have the power of a Vasto Lorde-- and the other reason I believe that is because Hitsugaya stated that "a Vasto Lorde is stronger than the (average) captain. Ulquiorra using Segunda Etapa is the most powerful transformation seen yet as far as reiatsu level, which makes him above the average captain, and this new Ichigo is above that. But like WhiteStrike said we have to wait for Tite Kubo to tell us what's what. The main thing I want is this transformation to not be Hollow Ichigo taking control, since for some reason even at the very beginning of the fight everyone kept saying how if he takes over then he'll definitely win and this and that. The story's about Ichigo, not his inner hollow, and besides he was defeated once before; I don't want to see Ichigo's inner evil fight his battles for him. I think that this time however he's lending Ichigo his power. --Renji Abarai 17:34, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

This is the issue how can u determine the power of a vaste lorde if you havent seen a vaste lorde or even know what its capable of. I too know what hitsuguya said and last i recall ichigo isnt a captain. Yes ulquiorra has amazingly powerful reitsu, but what information is there to state that its more powerful then a captains. Has anyone seen Yama at full power or aizen or kyoraku, ukitake or for that matter unohana, Yoruichi or urahara no, no one hasnt so that makes no sense to state that he is more powerful then anyone but ichigo, who while very powerful isnt the most powerful person in the series. Salubri 23:53, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo's new form
Even though Ichigo is one of the strongest beings in the universe, he has events that only happened to him. Dekoshu talk contrib 23:45, 21 March 2009 (UTC)