Forum:Hollow Ichigo... when this all started?

He may have awaken when Ichigo first confronted Renji and Byakuya refer Chapter 53 to 57 when trying to save Rukia.

Renji commented after Byakuya interferes Ichigo snapped and displayed some abnormal behaviour.

would like to discuss this matter in here, appreciate for any comments and or opinions.

Regards.Soulreaper1234 18:15, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

That would not be possible Ichigo did not start his hollowification until his training with Urahara to regain his Soul Reaper powers. Hollows form by the loneliness or regret a soul had during its time alive. So hollow ichigo always comments how weak Ichigo is and that he lacks killer instinct. Which leads me to think that hollow ichigo was born from Ichigo's regret of not being able to save his mother and rukia, plus if you notice hollow ichigo only comes out in battle when Ichigo fails to protect someone on his own accord and needs help, i.e., needing to win to protect. During Ichigo's final fight with Byakuya when it starts to look very grim for Ichigo he says to himself"Why have I come all this way nothing will change if I don't win!" in other words Rukia would have died(Byakuya would have most likely killed her and Renji) if Ichigo lost to Byakuya and Ichigo would have failed. This same case with the final fight with Ulquiorra. --Lemursrule 19:03, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

I was having doubt that the Hollowification (Shatter Shaft Training) created Shiro Ichigo or White Ichigo after reviewing this again and again and again http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/55/13/ and http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/55/14/ and

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/56/06/ Soulreaper1234 19:31, June 19, 2010 (UTC) In here Ichigo was talking about winning INSANELY, same like when he at his limit White Ichigo took over his body and ridicules Byakuya and then when normal Ichigo tries to regained controls all he says he was going to WIN before being subdued by Ichigo in that final battle with Byakuya plus in all the Darkside of the Universe chapters all he talks was about winning and becoming more powerful when arguing or teaching normal Ichigo.

This is reaching at best. First and foremost its like saying that Ichigo can't have a any personality traits that are hyperactive or elated (which he does at various times in the series), without it being Hollow Ichigo. Despite the fact that at this time there was no such thing as Hollow Ichigo. Common unknown fact is Kubo doesn't write the stories that far in advance at this point in the story that your talking about he hadn't even created captains or the gotei 13. He just does what he does as he goes along. Not to mention that Hollow Ichigo didn't gain the ability to take control over Ichigo until his final fight with Byakuya. At this current time in the storyline Ichigo didn't even have his own spiritual powers they were Rukia's he had no access to Hollow powers at all. In chapter 55 doesn't showcase anything your stating as Ichigo's spiritual power was always great not to mention up until that point Renji didn't know anything about Ichigo's power or the oddness around it even as he was human. So what Ichigo was happy he was feeling good and felt that he wasn't gonna lose because of it. Now he's not allowed to feel invigorated or powerful. He's not allowed to gloat. He is a human teenager, he may have a good concept most of the time but he still isnt above these characteristics. He is your typical teen alot of time outside of the shinigami stuff. In chapter 56 it also doesn't showcase much considering Renji is making a statement about Ichigo's actions and character when he doesn't even personally know the guy. The actions and character as well as power are abnormal to him cause he hasn't seen it before. If Rukia said it may have carried more weight but she didn't so these points dont help your idea they actually further disprove it. --Salubri (Talk)  20:56, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Salubri thanks for commenting in here, actually it was DOUBT, I doubt that the Shatter Shaft Training that created Hollow Ichigo, when I came accross this time and time and again, actually the idea should be Hollow Ichigo Creation: Not Properly Explained... WHEN is it all started?, even I say he may have been awaken at that time I still have doubts, ideas base on doubts and because seeing so vast info about Hollow Ichigo how he is a Hollow, a being of instinct, even some call him a Vasto Lorde, some call him a Beast, sometimes Inner Demon. Or maybe it was translation that got us mislead, I am having second thoughts over the hollowification method that created the White Ichigo, when Ichigo conclude what happen during the training he did not created a hollow, he or his body soul that was becoming a hollow if he does not succeeded in becoming a shinigami at that time. There is no indication at that time White Ichigo being Created. Even it is acceptable to named him Hollow Ichigo, by comparing them to the Vizard, if for any instances or any explanation or references the Vizard have a being in their soul I think this DOUBT will be answer, but I have check there are no further explanation about this, the Vizard do not have their own Inner Hollow no reference at all. The Vizard become a hollow because they were infected by the prototype that Aizen have implanted in them that is why they become shinigami-hollow hybrid right? If we reviews the chapters in question where White Ichigo appear, it is all titled the Dark Side of the Universe, but during the 3rd installment in the Vizard Training, this is what happen, Ichigo turn into a shinigami, then Shinji make him unconscious, thus he is sent to the innerworld, the body soul started to turn into a hollow while the main soul that is normal Ichigo and the secondary soul White Ichigo interacts and fights. So the things in question here should be the BODY SOUL that become a hollow or shinigami or just pluses not the MAIN SOUL in Ichigo's case both them Black & White. So in Ichigo's BODY SOUL contains 3 beings of soul which is Normal Ichigo, White Ichigo and Zangetsut (the 1st Dark Side of Universe chapter). So the creation of Hollow Ichigo as the majority of fans called him are not yet properly explained. We do not have a clue that what type of soul Hollow Ichigo really is? So I am sure he is not a Hollow just a soul who happen to live in Ichigo's BODY SOUL. But really I am sure there is not yet good explanation on when he was createdSoulreaper1234 06:07, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

One again I dont know if your forgoing explained information in order to be imaginative on your own. But alot of this is explained and is the only way it is, there will never be an explanation better then what is already presented. There is no reason to question the Inner Hollow creation, as we all saw when it happened. At the shattered shaft training it was clear as day, why thats not enough for you i dont get. If your seeing vast information about Hollow Ichigo and not getting that I would suggest stop looking on other sites or at peoples opinions and only look in actual articles because your misinforming yourself. As it stands that information on his creation is explained. Its explained why and how. Beyond that Inner demon was the term used by Ichigo once which is a plausible reference of what the being is for him, not literal. Being of instinct is also plausible as thats a trait of hollow creatures. Never has it ever in fact been called a Vasto Lorde, thats fan crap. Inner Hollows arent actual hollows they are negative inner consciousness in individuals plain and simple. Vasto Lorde are the pinnacle of hollow evolution, despite not knowing anything about them we do know it requires eatting lots of hollows to gain that level which is almost impossible to gain no matter how many hollows one devours. Something ichigo doesn't or hasnt done as he is no hollow. On top of that read Hollowfication which it explains some of this. How the vizard became vizard dont matter, Vizard in fact do have inner hollows, hence why ichigo went to them for help, hence why they know so much about inner hollows. They even mentioning fighting their own. This is a reality of being a Vizard. Also explained is the fact that Zanpakuto spirits are apart of the wielders soul and reflect their power and personality. A zanpakuto is the ultimate manifestation of a shinigami's power. The spirit resides in the a shinigami's inner world (their mind), In the case of a vizard an inner hollow resides there as well and shares a physical body with the zanpakuto spirit as each are apart of the vizards power. The Zanpakuto spirit defines a (shinigami) power and the inner hollow defines a (hollow) power. Whoever is the strongest at the time gains control over the physical body. Largly this is zangetsu for ichigo but sometimes hollow ichigo takes over, when that happens he can change ichigo's physcial body which takes the form of a hollow because that power is dominant. Its not the same as your interpreting it Ichigo is still ichigo regardless of the separate personalities of separate power sources residing in his mind. --Salubri (Talk)  09:36, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

Your explanation is great but, I am still not convinced if at the time of the training Urahara said something about the creation of inner hollow or even went further to explain us the consequences resulting from the training I would have no problems accepting this but I still have doubts over Ichigo's inner hollow's creation, then in chapter 397 Edge of Silence with Aizen claiming that Ichigo is the best subject for his research, he had known Ichigo special from the moment he is born, what does this mean anyway is he lying can we use what he is saying? Soulreaper1234 10:45, June 20, 2010 (UTC)