Forum:Masaki Kurosaki

Please use this page to discuss all things Masaki Kurosaki. Starting with the two topic below that were moved here from her articles talk page. Tinni  (Talk)  02:59, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Spiritual power
It's written in the history section of her page that she realised Grand fisher was luring Ichigo does this mean she could also see spirits or was a former shinigami?--SalmanH 08:47, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

That probably a mistake. It's never made clear if she did or did not see the lure. For all we know she had no idea why Ichigo suddenly started to run towards the swelling river yelling like crazy. Tinni  (Talk)  03:03, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

question
if she was eaten by grand fisher that means when isshin destroyed him her soul turned free right? Shiny-gami 07:58, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

In the manga it is never explained if Arrancar (or menos for that matter) are subject to the same rules as ordinary hollows. However, in the anime filler concerning the cloning arrancar (which was a ordinary hollow that became an arrancar like grand fisher, as oppose to a menos that became an arrancar) Rangiku does say that the souls that arrancar ate would be reborn in soul society. So... at this stage its whatever you want it to be. Tinni  (Talk)  03:02, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Finding her Soul in Soul Society
Why is it that after the numerous times Ichigo has been to Soul Society not once did he even consider searching for his mother there, even if she might not remember who he is if everyone recalls that Urahara had said that it was highly improbable that a soul would retain it's memories after death (1st bleach movie).--SalmanH 10:44, November 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * Because he knows she was eat by a hollow but doesn't know that, that hollow has been killed by Isshin so now there is a chance that Masaki's soul might have gone to soul society. Also, the little boy who Chad helped in the living world remembered him when they ran into each other in Soul Society. Lastly, even if Ichigo, Inoue and Chad decided to look for their dead loved ones in Soul society, it was made clear early on that given the vastness of Rukongai, it would be near impossible to find them. Tinni 11:06, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

In addition to that, Ichigo has only actually been to Soul Society once in the manga, and he had a mission - to rescue Rukia. He didn't have time to go look through Rukongai. And the movies do not count as canon, so whatever was said about not retaining memories is not to be taken seriously. The kid that Chad met - his friend remembered that he was from Hiroshima quite clearly. --Yyp 11:21, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Forgot about the kid, but she wasn't eaten, killed but not eaten. Although they would only look if they had trouble letting go which so far no one has shown those feelings not even Ishida, and I wouldn't exactly say near impossible to find.--SalmanH 11:54, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

He wouldnt have looked because he probably hasnt thought about it. Its probably a possilbe plotline that TK might look at.

Masaki's species
In the new chapter 397 aizen said to ichigo "You have led a special existence from the moment of your conception. You are a shinigami and a-" then isshin showed up and stopped the discussion. Considering that we know isshin is a shinigami, could that mean that masaki is the same species as whatever completed that sentence? GIven that aizen wouldn't care if ichigo was half shinigami and half human then what would finish that sentence? I think he was going to say that he "was a shinigami and a hollow." It would make sense if you consider how much more powerful his hollow powers are compared to the vizards, if he was half hollow. This would mean masaki was a hollow. Pure speculation here but interesting thought isn't it? What do you think?Renshiro zaraki 23:39, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I should add that the quote was the mangastream scanlation not onemangaRenshiro zaraki 23:45, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know why being half human wouldn't be special, that could totally be what Aizen is referring to. I mean we've never seen a half human/soul reaper as far as we know except possibly Ichigo. --Kulash05 00:48, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think Ichigo is half hollow. Sure he is stronger than the other Vizards, but that's because of his high spirit energy. Also, he has displayed no real tendency to use hollow capabilities of his own free will. He has only used sonido and ceros when the hollow side of him took over. This is most likely because the hollow within him has just as high spirit energy as he does. Since Ichigo's resolve (or what not) fluctuates so often and drastically, he loses the battle to his hollow-side temporarily.

As for his mom, she's either a soul reaper or a human. All souls have the potential to become hollows. So being part hollow is a natural occurence. Whether the powers of a shinigami or a hollow manifest is determined by training (shinigami) or longing (hollow).Genbu noryb 05:35, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Or here's throwing a curve-ball... may be Masaki is related to the spirit king.. can't rule that possibility out can we? Kishen1912 08:48, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

If Masaki was a shinigami then she wouldn't have been killed by a Hollow so simply due to her sons high spiritual energy baiting it. There would have been some precaution. It doesn't make sense to say half human, as how is someone gonna be have human and have spirit. Your either one or the other. They are two existences completely separate. Humans are made up of atoms and are living while souls are made of spiritons and are by human standards another form of existence after death, at most a human can be spiritually aware. The only reason Ichigo is considered human is because he hasn't died and still retains a human body, without that body that he uses similar to a gigai he would be a regular shinigami. A shinigami is a soul with supernatural power. The opposite of a soul/shinigami is a hollow. By definition of being a Vizard which Ichigo has claimed to being and as well as been stated he is by other Vizard Ichigo is both Shinigami and Hollow. Ichigo has only used cero's and Sonido because those are the capabilities of a hollow, unfortunately he is incapable of using the abilities under his own powers like most Vizards are capable. As far as a soul having the potential to be a hollow that is true in a sense by its not a natural occurrence otherwise the world would be populated with hollows. Being a soul is a natural occurrence the level of spiritual power determines whether one can become a shinigami. Becoming a hollow is a degeneration of a soul because it falls to despair. They are states of existence not manifestations of power. In closing Ichigo is already half shinigmai and half hollow so anything regarding that pairing wouldnt be surprising. Secondly at the time of his birth his father was affectively human possessing no Shinigami powers. The only thing to account for his high spiritual power would be that he is a member of a noble family who by nature have higher spiritual power then normal souls/Shinigmai. There are only Soul/Shinigami, Hollows, Vizards, Arrancar as viable species so there really is little to pick from Humans have no power in relation to any of them except if you use Quincy. Ichigo as mentioned is already Vizard. The only thing unaccounted for is his spiritual power level and advanced growth rate. Thats what makes him special. We know his father is some former high ranking Shinigami. What his mother is either human or Quincy. Doubtful to be the last otherwise she would have been able to protect herself. His fathers significance may be the answer rather then his mothers.Salubri (Talk)  09:39, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

In addition to becoming a hollow because a soul falls to despair, a plus can also become a hollow if they are eaten by a hollow (as shown with Sora Inoue). Captain Brooks 12:22, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Salubri, I think you're right here, except I want to add one more conjecture. Again, purely speculative, but if Ichigo's father was such a capable Shinigami, Royal guard isn't completely out of the question, which COULD make his mother someone from the "dimension" (not sure where he resides) of the "Soul King". I'm going with daughter of the soul king. Giving Ichigo, you guessed it, royal blood, and capable of helping Aizen in his plan. I don't think that specific style of entry of Isshin into the battle and the line "you've said enough" or whatever it was, would've been used if she was simply a shinigami, or human. Orionradar 12:47, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Assuming for a moment that Isshin did interrupt Aizen for plot and not just for dramatic effect, I will accept the blank filled with anything BUT Arrancar/Hollow. For the simple reason that Hollows represent an end. They are an embodiment of death, decay. They are essentially stuck/removed from the cycle of birth and rebirth and can only be returned to it after being destroyed by a Zanpakuto. There is no evidence that Arrancar are any different. They have logical minds and are free from instinctive drives/can control instinct but there is no evidence that they "live". I.e. There is no evidence that Arrancar can have children. That alone means that Masaki couldn't have been an Arrancar. I have heard some people try and explain away that by saying that "Oh, but Urahara could have helped her be more Shinigami like etc, etc". Look, if you have to make-up stuff to make a theory fit, then the theory doesn't fit. Especially when there are a ton of alternative explanation that are perfectly in keeping with what has been established to date. Quincy, member of the royal family, Shinigami who lost her power (remembering that Isshin too was injured by the Hollow that attack the night Ichigo met Rukia so powerless Masaki could have been hurt by Grand Fisher even if she had been a captain class Shinigami once upon a time) are all viable option for what Aizen could have been able to say. ASSUMING that Aizen's revelation had to do with Masaki at all. He could have simply being about to reveal something more about Isshin that Isshin didn't want Ichigo finding out yet. As far as I am concerned, making Masaki into a hollow is the last grasp by Hollow/Arrancar fanboys to try and make Hollows/Arrancar matter in some way other then being punching bags of protagonists. Tinni  (Talk)  13:07, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

I don't get why people think Masaki is/ could be an arrancar/ hollow. She looks completely human.. which has never been a characteristic of any known arrancar/ hollow to date. She has no hollow mask/ hollow hole/ or hollow fragment. Which would make this a crack theory in my opinion. Quincy/ Royal blood member/ Shinigami sound reasonable to me. My thoughts lean a bit more on some other revelation about Isshin. Captain Brooks 13:30, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with all the reasons on why she is not Hollow or Shinigami. I beleive her being part of the Royal Family explains alot of everything that has been happening. It explains why Aizen is so interested in him. It could explain why Ichigo is strong. It could explain why Isshin left the SS as well. You know the forbidden love theory. And it could explain why they kept it a secret so the SS would not find out about the family. I think the Royal Family reason is the best option if you think about it. Tealang99 18:11, March 26, 2010 (UTC)