Forum:Espada Deaths

I think Barragan and Harribel's death are just too fast...I think this just either shows how powerful the captains are (commented on by Stark) or how weak the espadas are. I don't know. I mean, Harribel's death is I think fathomable but Barragan's? I think he could have used his time dilation field or sonido to avoid Jakuhō. Not that I want Soifon killed, but I think the two espadas' death are just too fast. --Agate genbu 05:58, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I don't think that they are dead yet. Neither have been verified being dead, everybody have just assumed them being dead because being attacked with powerful attack. But it hasn't verified yet. Akeki 09:24, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

I severly doubt that they would be dead, especially when you consider that Hitsuguya and Soi Fon are meant to be two of the weaker characters --Eternal Breath 11:54, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Yea lets just stop this way of thinking now. All captains by virtue of their position are the most powerful characters in the series number 1, number 2 These personal opinions against certain captains really need to stop being stated as facts, if thats an individuals personal opinion then whatever but considering how the facts of the series prove that time and time again not to be a true or realistic way of thinking and considering the espada are dropping like flies, there is really no point to consider this concept as valid anymore as if it was ever. On to the point. I think it was drawn out long enough as usual myself but i also think that Aizen is just using these espada as test subjects, he had no concern over the other ones dying and lets be honest. Harribel was pushed just like Ulquiorra was to be so powerful but yet everything we have seen of her has been average at best its like if she were facing kenpachi it would have been an unfair fight for her to have as for barragan he was pushed to and its like ok its really getting old no pun intended with the time dilation and the deteriorating smoke and all. Salubri 12:18, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Halibel and Barragarn dead? Not sure about that. We'll see. But I think Salubri provides some good points. Captains tend to be underrated on most Fansites. How often have we seen Captains go down in Combat? 3 times if I recall correctly. First was Kenpachi then Tosen and last Byakuya. None were simple defeats.

Kenpachi: Thinking back it was more of a Draw than a defeat and seeing the Nnoitra Kenpachi fight it's hardly believable that he lost to ichigo, but he did. It was a clash of spiritual power and not of skill and abilities (which i doubt ichigo would have won at that time). The fight with Nnoitra has shown Zaraki to be capable of much more and to match the 5th Espada and surpass him. That was the first Captain to lose a fight

Tosen: Tosen lost clearly to Kenpachi, another Captain and perhaps the perfect counter for Tosen. Tosen's Bankai takes away most senses and leaves his oponnent vulnerable. But he understimated Zaraki and tried to go at him with sword attacks. Zaraki is incredibly durable and does not know fear or hesitation so he took a direct hit in order to land one himself. How many bleach characters could do that to Tosen? How many could actually dodge on touching sense and not panic? In my opinion Tosen would be more than a match for most Espadas, or characters in gerneral as he has speed, skill and a hard to counter bankai. This was the second Captain to lose a fight.

Byakuya: Again a fight against the main protagonist Ichigo. Ichigo won. But let me recap it a bit. At the beginning (before Ichigo beat himself by Bankai overuse) Ichigo held the Advantage. This situation completely turned around after a while around the time Byakuya used Senkei. Now Ichigo was not only on the receiving end. He was pretty much beaten. Then Ichigos Hollow turned the tables again. The Hollow was clearly a lot more powerful then just Ichigo in Bankai and Byakuya was injured multiple times during this short 'event'. Because of those injuries Ichigo was again on par with Byakuya and could win. One could argue that it took a hollow enhanced Bankai Ichigo to defeat Byakuya. This is not a small amount of power and to think that Ichigo couldn't stand after it but Byakuya could use Shunpo and even take a hit from Ichimarus Shikai after the fight...

How do these loses mark the Captains in general as weak?

However, Aizen stated that his top three espada will be enough to deal with all the shinigami in Karakura town. And i do not think that Aizen will make such a big mistake, because Barragan is hit once and dies or Harribel is encased in ice and dies. Like said before, i think that these death are a bit too fast. Gargamel711 18:00, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Not really the battles have been pretty drawn out and this part of the story is becoming stale. I mean fighting is all good and stuff but, its like we have seen all there is to see of these characters. To many people put it in their minds that bad guys are gonna be constant fixtures even when you know its not true. Like in any normal situation they serve their purpose and then you move on. Well how much more can they do with barragan really or harribel for that matter there is really no where to go with these, and Aizen says alot of stuff but he also said that ichigo and friends posed no threat to him or the espada. which ended up not being true. It seems that Aizen says alot of things and as much as he misleads his enemies and manipulates them he also misleads and manipulates his allies. So lets take everything aizen says with a grain of salt. Not to mention i dont think aizen is making a mistake on this, these Espada seem more less like like test subjects for him, he's just testing their capability, as seen he doesnt really care if they lose or die. he is obviously playing at something bigger like new and more powerful Espada (hint hint). All in all im not sure these battles matter to much but to show case the Gotei 13's abilities you probably wouldnt normally see. Also if they fight these powerful adversaries and win much like ichigo they can only get stronger, weird. Salubri 17:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

lol i dont think one of the weakest captians could take out the second espada with one bankai attack if that killed it Tite Kubo must really want this series to be over with lol i dont about halibel though the biggest question is what is Aizen thinking as he watches this?


 * Since when is Soifon one of the weakest captains? When was that ever stated? If you're reading them off those stat chart things, remember that one of those factors is intelligence and another is Kido, neither of which Soifon uses often. According to those charts, Zaraki is the weakest captain yet we know he isn't, its purely because he doesn't know any kido. If you are going to make a claim like that, support it with some proof. --BollyW 06:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Barragan's Death
I think we can assume the Barragan is dead,seeing as how he was shot with GIANT CANNON! Most don't survive that.

gohanRULEZ 05:14, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo had his chest blown out by a massive laser beam yet he still came back. Characters in Bleach tend to have a very good survival rate, think Renji, Tousen, Grimmjow etc. So just because he was "shot with GIANT CANNON", he could still be easily alive. --BollyW 06:16, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Alright,but eve if he is alive,I'll bet he could be injured.

gohanRULEZ 07:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * That's more like it. I agree, I think he's gonna take a beating from that missile but I doubt the second espada will go down so suddenly --BollyW 10:15, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Espada are underestimated as well.
I agree with all the comments of Captains not getting due credit. I mean these captians are captains for a reason. And compared to their leutinents they have to have a greater strength than we know. But when you compare the Espada to the strength of Ichigo then we must be missing something. Before I begin my explaination I just want to say this is my opinion. I am not stating fact. Now if we look at the huge battle that took place between Cifer and Ichigo. Ichigo damn near lost his battle. Which shows that Cifer was indeed a strong character. But he was only the number 4 Espada meaning that the top 3 maybe 4 should be stronger unless Cifer hid his power to stay at that rank. Now Ichigo has also defeated two top level captains. Kenpachi and Byakuya were defeated by Ichigo. That shows me how strong Ichigo is as well. So that makes me beleive that if they were to face Cifer those same two captains then they would also have the same trouble that Ichigo had. So now we have weaker captains fighting stronger Espadas but are having no issues at this time. I mean come on if they rank higher than Cifer than there is no way those battles are over. The only Espada battle that will show a true level of power as of right now for both captain and espada will be Stark and Shuhie. Both rank high in their league ( I mean for Gotie 13 and Espada)and both have been just toying around instead of truly battling. Im pretty sure the Espada wanted to see these Bankia to test their true power. Just like the Captains wanted to see the Ressureccion from them. I think well need to wait and let this play out. There to many characters that are not in play right now that I belive should and will be in play. I think this is far from over and no ones true strengnth has been displayed yet. Tealang99 16:09, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok I get your point but for accuracy's sake let me say this much. There is no question the Espada are tough but they do not possess the level of formal skill nor the centuries of experience that the Gotei 13 do. The Gotei are a formalized military after all. Arrancar in general are in a way a more intellectual and powerful group made originally from hollows that exist my instinct. Having said that there is no question of Ulquiorra's strength but you can't really rate that against anyone but Ichigo, as he is the only one he has actually fought. In the end Ichigo (regardless of what form) proved to be by far more powerful. Also in Ichigo's fight with both Kenpachi and Byakuya those fights actually ended in a draws, with both Captains conceding to Ichigo. Now look at the battles after that, Ichigo almost was destroyed by Nnorita who was only 5th and previous to that he could barely hold his own against Grimmjaw who was 6. Now Kenpachi could beat Nnorita. And if not for his Vizard abilities he wouldnt have beaten Ulquiorra. Having said that lets not forget that Ichigo himself has the spiritual power level of a captain but none of the skills or experiences, as shown in both battles he won by sheer chance and by the skin of his teeth. Its not until the vizard abilities came into play that he starts to totally dominate on Ulquiorra. The case can't be made that Ichigo is on par with a captain, there are just things he can't do on a regular shinigami level. but as he has gotten stronger so have the captains obviously. We cant say that Kenpachi or Byakuya would have the same problem because we haven't seen that battle nor we forget as powerful as ichigo is he is not a captain nor he the strongest in the series. I think we need to see it play out myself but, i also know there is not much else to do with these espada characters anymore, after all the bad guys have there time and they go away, and besides knowning Aizen they are more or less test subjects to test how the Gotei 13 can handle this level of Espada. Assuming the top 3 are the most powerful of adjuhcas level arrancar and the trouble the top 3 have been what would one do against a vasto lorde-level arrancar thats an espada. Its just a logical course of action otherwise the storyline would end with these 3 battles.Salubri 16:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you about the experience. The Gotei 13 are very much experienced in Combat because that is one of their purposes. But you may have also proven my point. You mentioned that both the Kenpachi and Byakuya battle ended in a draw. But neither one of them faced the power of Ichigo that Cifer faced. I konw that they all have grown in strength that I agree with as well. Yet Kenpachi still let Nnjorita come close to killing him as well. Now I said "let" because I feel that if Kenpachi did not love battle so much he could have ended the fight earlier. But that doesnt take away the fact that he was still able to bring him close death. Now when looking at the Arrancar battles I think that experience has been a big factor in all their loses. With each battle won by the Gotei 13, their experience in battle has been their key to victory. So with that said I feel that the top 4 Espada left may still be enough to cause more issues than being shown. I even see one of the captains currently fighting losing their battle. This is just my opinion. I also agree with you on this being a Test by Aizen as well. What makes me wonder is if Aizen will be able to get at least on of the Vasto Lorde to do his bidding. As powerful as the are I dont think he will be able to scare them in to working for him. Tealang99 18:03, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

lol yea exactly this isnt the 9th espada were talking about who gets a lame death by getting stabbed in the head by Rukia this is the second espada hes not going to die by something like that why would you even ask a question like that?

I Agree, There's No Way Aizen Can Scare The Vasto Lorde In To Servitiude. Rather He'll Use His Powers Of Persuasion. Also I Believe If He Used Swords Ability on them it wouldnt work either(Remember When Shinji Ripped His Way Out Of One the Illusions, Imagine That with a Vasto Lorde.)Also When The Most Of The Espada Were Beaten In Hueco Mundo,Aizen Congratulated Them For Their " Continued Success" Against Against His Espada. It Made Me Realize That The Current Espada Are Just A Test Run, and The Real Espada Haven't Been Seen Yet. I Believe None Of The Current Espada Are Vasto Lorde,Except Maybe Stark. They've Been Getting Beaten Too Easily(Aside From Nnoitra,Grimmjow,Ulquiorra,and Aaroniero, Who Gave Their Opponets A Little Bit Of Hard Time).For Everyone Who Whines That Characters Never Die:  None Of The Captains Or Anyone Else Have Been Too Seriously Hurt Or Been Killed Outright: If They Do Get Killled, They Aint Coming Back. This Aint Like Dragon Ball, They Cant Be Wished Back Or Brought Back Magically. So If They Do Happen To Die It's A Really Big Deal.Pookl-sama 03:20, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

both sides have an argument in that azin is unpredictable, there is support that the espada are not dead in that they could have more power because aizen dose not appear to be worried about them. But the same can be said about them being dead because aizen is very manipulative and that he could just be toying with all of soul society and have other true espada in the wings waiting to attk the weakened captains. All I have to add to this argument is that you have to look in big fights in this same manga earlier when the pillars were sure to be destroyed the luteants of soul society came in and ended that emergency. now apply that to this current situation, it looks like the captains have the espada the ropes so there is now emergency. there is how ever a force to respond to an emergency, the vizard. we have seen the vizard mobilize at the end of the turn back the penjalem mini series. so all there needs to be is an emergency to respond to that being the reaming espada being alive and defecting there opponents, so I side with those that support the espada being alive. this is how ever assuming they will side with soul society the ppl that exiled them shijis last words in the mini series were "we own a great debate to kusie..and aizen" they are free to interpretation


 * Defeating not defecting. Debt, not debate. Spelling is important in getting your point across so please try.


 * I don't like the idea of more Espada in the wings just because these Espada have been built up so much and have so much character, it just doesn't sit with me that there's just going to be more. I would like the top three Espada to win against the captains just because it makes it more interesting. At the moment there are well too many powerful good guys and not enough powerful baddies. I hope something changes that without the introduction of new characters into the mix. --BollyW 07:20, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with BollyW. I just don't see there being any more espada unless their numbers are negative, which is kinda stupid. I will agree with Salubri. The Captains are definitely strong and each one of them is a powerhouse in their own right. However, I don't doubt the power that the Espada hold either, and I am going to be honest, if the top three die that quickly then its just a waste. The suspense and excitement built up for them was immense in my opinion and for their opponents to go "You are strong, but this will beat you. Bam." when the fight was only what, three or four chapters is stupid. Seroiusly, even the fight between Ichigo and Ulquiorra lasted thirteen chapters. I don't know. I juust want something that was built up like this to last, not end in just a small number of chapters. Sorry if I sound like I am complaining--Moe1216 20:11, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

bolly, what I was saying didn't exactly mean that there would be more espada just something like that to give the coming vizard something to fight, if they are on soul society side, and I agree the power of the espada as been built up massively so it may not be over maybe they have second forms like uliqurra maybe azin well resurrect them, all I was saying is the time of the espada, the current, more, or what ever else, is not over yet. Trippyfalls


 * Yeh sure, I agree, cos the vizard are awesome and I want to see them rip it up old school style. I think as soon as Aizen and the others bust out of the flame fortress or whatever it is, the proverbial will hit the fan for the Gotei. I also think Stark is gonna turn out to be everything the other two weren't and be insanely awesome with added bear blasting brilliance. Just like at the end of the rescue Rukia arc just when it all looks like it's going to work out, Aizen just strolls in and ruins it for everyone. --BollyW 10:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I think what everyone is forgetting is the end of the soul society arc was the twist that no one saw coming. Another thing is while the focus has been pulled away everyone forgets the storyline is not about the Espada or the arrancar they are just plot devices and lets be realistic the bad guys serve their purpose. Same point i said before people may not like it but if these 3 are it thats the end of the story, and that makes no sense. Yes the espada where hyped up alot but really where is the awesome characters people are talkin about. Most of them dropped off like flies and we no virtually nothing to little about them. Meanwhile the captains we learn even more about them and what drives them. The only rememberable ones I can think of is Nnorita he loved battle for all the wrong reasons but he's a hollow at heart, while he was a serious bad ass, he was no kenpachi who was even a bigger one, the whole fight confirmed even more that kenpachi was a beast like he was when first shown. Grimmjaw, was the first one to take Ichigo to the next level. Ulquiorra was the most hyped up of all and it was a interesting battle but it was really predictable I knew he was to arrogant and constantly underestimating the Shinigami as somewhere they feel their so powerful a failing of the Espada (which normally gets them killed as has been shown) Don't get me wrong they are powerful but up that point what do we really have to go on besides some words. He himself as a character was just to overpowered for his own good, you just knew he was on the way out one way or another, but it was suspenseful. It got to emotional at the end. Ichigo is supposed to be stopping this group and he isn't even strong enough of will to realize the situation is kill or be killed a real shinigami would have took him out without hesitation instead of giving him the benefit that he would never give you if the roles were reversed. Then it was all this i have a heart and can we be friends stuff before i die. It was out of place, i mean who cares if he he had a heart or change of heart or whatever are we forgetting the last 13 plus chapters this guy was calling you and humans trash and believes they should all die and was adamant on killing you and all you hold dear. lets not make it into something it wasn't you know what you are and what you did. I dont see real character in him he was just really arrogant and superior acting. On the reverse Nelial is probably the best of them all In her true form she is powerful, skilled and her philosophy and intellect are refreshing. She comes off as realistic and minimal in her approach and isnt the least bit arrogant but a realist. She isnt as flawed as the other arrancar have been shown thus far, now if she was still on aizen's side that would have been a good character. As for the top 3 i dont know what to really say anymore. To be honest where is the character in them, Stark is possibly got some but Barragan and Harribel not really. The arrogant old grim reaper, i mean really we know nothing about him and he barely speaks and then arrogance again and self-absorbed im a god king thing and once again over powered. I didnt say soifon has to beat him but if he survived her attack i doubt he'll be around long, he's a dead end character. I mean besides his abilities as a number 2 he isn't really interesting, im not sure why they put the top assassin of soul society against him. As for Harribel the same thing ok yea she loved her horrible and annoying faccion but what is there to care about she seems reserved but thats where her nelial comparison ends, she lacks something important i cant place it. But from what has been shown so far she suffers from the same issue as all the other espada and as powerful as she is supposed to be im not seeing it, at the level she has been fighting i think anyone else would have destroyed her. im just not impressed, if she is defeated i wouldnt care because its her own fault. And if not she won't last long either. I mean we can hope and wish all we want but the fact is one way or another their going down now whether is sooner then later i don't know, if its the Gotei 13 or the vizard i dont know. But the more the story goes on the only logical thing is that these guys just aren't what is it. once again if they are it then thats the end of the series. No explanation of anything thats unanswered thats just it the end. Alot of people have become so hung up on these espada they forget the series very concept doesnt revolve around them, least we forget if there were no captains there would be no gotei 13 and then no soul society and then no world for the story to take place in. You can enjoy the characters for whatever reason, but dont set yourself up for disappoint is all im saying. The fact is the Captains are far me underestimated then the Espada but at the end of the day they have a job to do. Aizen is the main bad guy, so if he is then that makes them no more then henchmen and what happens to henchmen. I would be more concerned about him and his plans then the top 3 as they probably arent even aware of what he is up to, i think theyre being used just as much as anyone, its aizen after all. Salubri 11:17, 18 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree but not totally. I think this arc has just about reached its finishing point in terms of how far Aizen can go as the main baddy. It just gets too Batman or Marvel comics if he keeps coming up with new schemes and plans and so on and so forth. It's getting stale and I don't think simply switching back to Yammi is going to fix that, awesome fights have been going on for too long now (i know that sounds stupid but it's true) and it's time to get back to a bit of character builing and plot forward movement. I want more vizard and more Espada awesome. I do love the Captains, they are awesome but we've seen Hitsugaya, Komamura, Mayuri, Zaraki and Byakuya fight enough for the time being. I know its all personal opinion so there's mine! BollyW 11:27, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I understand what you guys are getting at. Yes, there seems to be no depth to these characters and the fights have gone for too long. I agree with you on that. I just don't see the captains beating them that's all, becuse it would make the story much more exciting and ironic if the visored battle the top 3. I mean Aizen created both and it would hybrid vs hybrid. Please tell me that would not be kick butt?--Moe1216 15:51, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Im in total agreement. The captains dont have to be the one to defeat them buts its gonna happen, i actually would prefer that in the middle of all this the vizards show up and is like well take it from here. its just that it seems like the window for them to get involved is getting smaller. And while i like the original plot twist. To be honest i never really liked Aizen's zanapakuto its powerful and all but its way too powerful. Where is the flaw that all main bad guys are supposed to have as a part of their creation. I mean even the devil has weaknesses. The only thing i can think of is that Aizen has bitten off more then he can chew, he wants to be at the top but he doesn't truly know whats up their beyond the Gotei 13, If he or the Espada had to deal with the Royal Guard or the Spirit King he might be over. But yea i would welcome him being taken out finally. Salubri 16:28, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

True on both parts. Unless the Espada pull off some kind of hidden power that deserves the restriction put on them in hueco mundo, they are gonna get beaten down. Aizen himself seems way over powered just like you said, but here is an idea that someone probably already came up with; what if people with higher spiritual power than Aizen aren't affected by kyoka suigetsu? I mean Shinji could see through it, so its possible that its gives a hint on its flaw.--Moe1216 18:01, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

ah now those are some factors that no one has said anything about, the royal guard and the king of soul society, this just isn't making since look at the sides of this war. society: 10 captains;, 1 of which is considered the most powerful of all shigani(yammato) 8 vizard with above captain level power, 2 banki powered lutenats, the royal guard which is who knows how many powerful ex-captions and the king himself who is an unknown factor but can be assumed to be powerful as he is after all the king. Okay that was soul society now lets look at aizen 3 powerful espada 2 of which may or may not be dead 2 very strong ex-captain who he may have turned into vizard's and him self how is already EXTREAMLY powerful and my have become a vizard to argument this extreme power. just look at those numbers I don't care how powerful azin and his zapato is he can not stand up to that its ridicules how one sided this war is becoming, if what everyone is saying is true and bleach is coming to an end all I can do is hope that the bad guy that has ben built up for what 150 chapters? is gonna go out that fast and that easy, there has to be more to come from the side of aizen other wise the end of bleach is gonna be a let down...--Trippyfals

Let me even out the point here. Soul Society has currently 10 Captains (1 of which is the oldest and powerful and has a zanpakuto that has the greatest attack power of all zanpakuto; 2 of which are said to be the most powerful in previous or current generations); There are 8 Vizards most likely to be against Aizen (5 of which are former captains and 3 former lieutenant level characters who may have achieved captain-level skills in the past 100 years along with the mastery of their acquired hollow abilities); 1 lieutenant with Bankai, 1 3rd Seat with Bankai, the Ryoka (1 Vizard with Bankai, 1 Quincy, 1 Human with Hollow-like powers, 1 Human with exceptional kido like abilities); Exiled Shingiami (1 former captain of the Kido Corps, and 2 powerful former captains, one being one of the most intelligent beings in the series and the other being the greatest hand to hand and flash steps master in the series); there is the Royal Guard (made up of former Captains who may be more powerful then normal Captains, questionable); And the Spirit King (who knows what he is capable of). On the opposite side is Aizen (who claims to have twice the spiritual power of a normal captain and is really powerful), 2 Ex-Captains who are powerful in their own right, but probably beatable against other captains, Tosen already lost once). 3 Espada left (assuming the 2 aren't down for the count). The difference in numbers is huge for the defense but assuming Aizen has no Vasto Lorde in the wings. The only problem I have is that Aizen never said he would do that he has talked about it to explain why he did what he did in the first place, and he has experimented on both sides and while they are beneficial at creating subordinates for his plans the risk is to great for the shinigami side of the process, lets imagine an issue where Aizen has to fight his own inner hollow, im doubting he'll survive that. Its just too risky for him and why bother with how overpowered his zanpakuto is. Its a possibility but largely unverified. What is being said is that if These espada are it then thats the end of story. Sadly for the fans of the espada or aizen who wants him to win, the story is built around a universal concept, soul society has to exist and shingiami have to exist in order for the world to exist. If the Gotei 13 is defeated thats the end of the series. If Aizen was just evil that would probably been a better storyline, instead of having his plan revolve around doing something that can destroy everything if he succeeds. Thats why i said if your a fan of the series, its ok to like whoever but the continuation of the series depends on the good guys winning. So the scenario works like this: Either Aizen's 3 espada win and thats the end of the series; the captains and or vizards win and aizen is taken out and on to new bad guy; or the captains and or vizards win and aizen retreats back to hueco mundo and puts together actual vasto lorde based espada and its round 2 (as there is no proof of the current ones being so and from what it looks like so far they arent). I prefer the middle one personally, because i like the series so i dont want the first and the third is unnecessary lets move on to someone fresh. Salubri 20:41, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

exactly my point thanks for clarifying salubri and I agree and want the series to continue, but rember it is the rember all of this build up I really doubt that this is just ANOTHER test run for aizen there is some support for your side of the argument which I will list in a later post, but in my oppion this is it, bleach is coming to an end and aizen has brought out all the stops. Despite the fact that he is extremely powerful aizen he doesn't like to put him self in the line of fire, this time he is on the battle field apparently going to fight with his "comrades" he cant just hope that it will continue for the sake of saying. to me it looks like this is the end.--Trippyfalls 21:20, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Ok so your for the series to continue, so your gonna take the 2nd scenario cause you think its aizen's last stand, ok cool.Salubri 21:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

support for series continuation
1. aizen is dose not look to be at all concerned that his espada which he had to plan and masquerade for 110 years to create are dropping like flies to the captains.

2. Aizen is not completely going all out because he left behind to of his strongest espada uiqurra and yammy in Los noches to guard orihime which may mean he is still interested in her powers.(saying these are some of the strongest because I am assuming that aizen was aware of what they were capable of doing because he created them and chose them for there power)--Trippyfalls 21:23, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I dont know. Aizen leaves Ulquiorra to run things (to which he ends up dead) doesn't seem as powerful as was thought at least in comparison to ichigo. not to mention aizen lied to the espada when ichigo and friends first came to hueco mundo. in telling them they were of no threat to the esapda (next thing u know most of them are dead, albeit because of the captains). So either he knew ulquiorra wouldn't survive or just didn't care if he did or not. Also Yammy just seems left behind, Aizen didn't seem to acknowledge him or even care to question his whereabouts, why not take your heavy hitter with you if you were gonna take your enemy out once and for all. I always thought Yammy was a one shot powerhouse and quit frankly all evidence points to that, yea he's probably real powerful when he releases but how long will that last before he burns out. Perfect time for chad to get vengeance and come into another level of power.Salubri 21:36, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

when telling the espada that ichigo was no threat I don't think aizen was lying to the espada, because he genuinely trusted ulrqurra and believe him when he was told that ichigo was trash, ulrqurra was killed because ichigo reached an great level of power that came out of no were surprising ulrqurra him self, with yammy I don't know, considering that his aspect of death is "anger" I would assume that his power fluctuates with his anger, and considering that there really wouldn't be much for yammy to get angry at considering the only anncar he cared for was ulrqurra who was in Los noches so he wouldn't have mattered much in the real world battles.--Trippyfalls 22:00, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

There is Aizen's statement that he wanted to gather 10 Vasto Lorde which would indicate he has something planned for the future. Would he gather them using his weapon's shikai or would it work on a Vasto Lorde? The shikai worked on the Gotei 13 so he was able to fool everyone into thinking he was killed in order to carry out the rest of his plan in secret. Since Vasto Lorde are stated to be more powerful than a shinigami captain then would Aizen have to use his bankai on it presuming a bankai expands on the shikai's abilities.Spacedone 09:06, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Unaccounted for factors
It is unlikely that the series is comming to an end as there is still alot about all the charactrers that we know nothing about. The Vizard can be said to hate Aizen since is his fault they ended up that way, but they also said they hate Shinigami and Humans so what side are the truly on can be left to anyone's individual thoughts. Next we got Ishin posible former Captain or at least some one of Captain level, why is he in the real world and what happened to him? He and Urahara said they they are preapering for battle as well wether he meant them or Soul Society again can be left up to you. The King and Royal Guard we know that the guard are all former Captains so we know that by comparision they are strong, as for the King, is his rank based on power or mearly birth right. and Azien yes we know what his Shikai can do but if that's the power that holds can we even begin to imagine what kind of power his Bankai posesses. Yammy is questionably the strongest Espada if we go by what he stated, yet how come Stark split his power into two separete Arrancar's is his power so great that this occur then how is Yammy supposed to be stronger. Lastly we got the Vasto Lorde Hitsugaya said that only ten of them would be necessary to destroy Soul Society, Was he just exagerating, although that's not his style. Too many questions are yet to be answer, and while maybe not all will, we can still expect that the seires will continue for quite some time.WhiteStrike 23:11, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I gotta say, excellent point. We really don't know what's about to happen, so its possible that anything can and may happen.--Moe1216 23:20, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Your right but im not saying out right the series is gonna end, what i am saying is there is one particular scenario that cant happen if he series is to continue and that is if Aizen wins. The point was only being made for those who want the captains to be beat by the espada. The idea about the vizards is their on their own side. Yes they hate humans and shinigami. But wouldnt you. They have nowhere to go. they aren't alive and they aren't shinigami any longer, the shinigami in fact turned their back on them. All they have is each other so yea their pissed and they hate aizen for the betrayal and what he did to them. The only real allies would be Urahara, Tessai and Yoruichi or they wouldnt be alive today. As stated before there is alot of unanswered questions. I really cant imagine Aizens bankai its probably even more overpowered then his shikai. But yes i did realize all the unaccounted factors. The question still stands is this aizens last attempt before he is replaced with a fresh face, who maybe continue his work or will he retreat and start from jump, or is this the end. Because from the last chapters its lookin like a wrap one way or another. The concept is to what end. True enough anything can happen but one thing can't if the series is to continue.Salubri 23:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

True, the Visored have no side. My best guess is that their hatred for Aizen is greater than anything else and are loyal to Urahara, who in turn is loyal to the Soul Society, so most likely we may see the Visored vs Espada. This may also give us a chance to see their shikai and bankai as well as their true hollow powers, because we don't know what they are fully capable of.--Moe1216 23:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

there seams to be some miss commutation, its felling like ppl are thinking the series will end SOON we still have a long was to go and tons of things to explain. were saying that after these battles end bleach may be over, im mean soul society is pulling out all the stops with this fight, after this I don't see anything that can follow this up. btw I have found new support for those how believe the espada have more bring to the fight. when ulrqurra says that he is the only espada with a send resurrection that not even aizen knows about, but if he was an artificial anncar then aizen changed him when he was a vasto lorde's, and aizen being the well informed man he is, would have know he would have greater power than most. if this is true then it stands to reason that the top 3 espada would also have a second form. because ulrqurra had a second form which aizen would know about and was placed below the top 3.--Trippyfalls 01:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I could have swore we put this to bed already. There is no proof at all anyone's a vasto lorde, now. And its getting pretty old talkin about something like its fact when its pure fan speculation. Ulquiorra is of the belief no one knows of his second release, not to mention it assumed and never elaborated upon what arrancar Aizen had a hand in making, even if he did he doesn't seem to know much about them, as when he mad wonderwise he was even in the dark about its name. So its more then likely unless the power is presented by them to him, he wouldn't know. Now there is argument about him being who he is he knows but we dont know that and what we have to go is on what we do know, and what we do know is the Ulquiorra claims he doesn't know. Secondly what proof is there of anyone of them being vasto lorde because, there is never an instance of anyone of them saying i was a vasto lorde or anything. There just isn't any proof, and therefore cant be any argument. And a second release proves nothing either, we have seen one espada do it and then say he is the only one who can, until there is another we cant assume they can. On top of that you would have to prove a connection between that release and a vasto lorde which you cant. Especially considering no one has seen one and dont know what it can do. Last checked Ulquiorra isn't even a part of the equation anymore, i doubt if a vasto lorde is as strong as the claims are a sword slash across the chest and a point blank cero is not enough to take them out. If the your speculation of it was true then vasto lorde arent any threat at all, Ichigo beat one and he isn't even the most powerful character in the series. Salubri 01:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Im gonna have to agree there is way to much talk about the Vasto Lorde, considering no one knows much of anything about them and yet people say things like its fact when its just pure fan speculation. Show some evidence of someone saying as much instead of making assumptions to fit you opinion.Ninjaman56 01:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Yea if people are gonna talk about it just say its speculation but also bring some real facts that can be proven to support your claim otherwise its just alot of wild what if's and maybe's. There's alot we dont know but making stuff up doesn't make it any better. Its one thing to have a theory but based on what, you cant take instances to prove your point if they aren't leading to something concrete. Im tired of all this vasto lorde stuff, we havent even see one and all we know really is that its more powerful then a average captain. You wouldnt know for certain that a espada was one unless they say as much. There is really no way of knowing unless its stated, mainly cause as said before we have never really seen one or know its capabilities. YesMonarch 02:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

All true, there is nothing actually pointing out that any member of the Espada are Vasto Lorde.Plus, all we do know is that supposedly they are the closest in shape and size to humans, are stronger than the average captain, and that among the Espada, they are all at least among the adjuchas class, escept for Aaroniero. We have no idea what they can do or if they are even among Aizen's numbers. Our best option to settle this would be to wait and see what happens, though I doubt any of us are that patient.--Moe1216 03:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

ah. my apologies I was misinformed =_= --Trippyfalls 04:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I've only just gotten to the fake Karakura Town up to the four pillars being attacked and the start of Ichigo's fight with Uliquoirra. Definitely four of the Espada are dead up to this point since they're shown being killed by the shinigami who served as their opponent: Aaroneiro killed by Rukia, Szayel by Mayuri, Zommari by Byakuya's bankai, and Nnoitora by Zaraki. Grimmjow was still alive after being defeated by Ichigo and was alive after being attacked by Nnoitora though he wasn't in the best shape.Spacedone 06:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

The only thing we really know is that Aizen is very confident in the his top four Espada. Whether this is a test or not His top four are not going down that easy. After all Aizen knows his enemies. I say this becasue of the way he orchestrated his plan in retrieving the Hogyoku. If aizen planed for his Top 4 on going down that easy I trully think that he would have never left Hueco Mundo and take the risk of being captuered or defeated. Time will tell what type of menos the Top Four or Five are so we all have no choice but to wait this one out. I also beleive that battle is far form over because to many charcters are deeply rooted into this Saga with out it ending with alot more questions answered. I just want to remind everyone that this is the forum page so we should be able to share our opinions. Not one these pages should be considered fact. So stop taking offense if someone mentions something that is opinionated. REally I understand that you guys take this seriously but you do that on the data pages not the forum pages. There is nothin wrong if some wants to talk about their opinion here If you dont like what is said then dont engage in the conversation. Tealang99 13:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Your misinterpreting the conversations. The forum is not just used for peoples opinions. people also ask questions that can either be answered with facts so their informed and other people can also give their opinions on the topic. The biggest problem is there are many people who express their opinions and they either dont know the story line well or are ill informed. Its more then having an opinion cause most tend to state opinions and speculations like facts and then other people not knowing the difference (cause alot posts dont say its opinion or speculation) think its fact and then next thing you know its getting put into the profiles and have to edited out. Your part right not one of these pages should be considered fact but there are those who answer the questions with facts so people are informed and get their answers. Also there are many people who dont know that the proper place to speculate or show opinions is in the forum, i should know i have to move the stuff off the articles and talk pages almost on the regular bases. People with facts have just as much right as people who come up with opinions to be on the forum. Especially when the opinions dont come from any of the actual information from the stoyline. There has to be some real information entered into the conversation too, whoever it maybe from.Salubri 13:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with that. No agruement there. Its jsut I notice that sometimes that when a person writes an opinion or spectulation that there are few here that tend to attack that person for such reason. If a question is asked it should be answered and if a opinion or spectionlation is written state that it is so. Tealang99 14:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)