Talk:Kūgo Ginjō/Archive 4

Bankai & Zanpakutō
I was just re-watching some of the earlier Bleach episodes, specifically Ichigo's Bankai training and I noticed a detail that is very important. It is impossible to use Bankai without having a Zanpakutō spirit. That is because it requires one to materialize the spirit in the real world and train with it. So then, if Kūgo isn't using a Zanpakutō of some form, using Bankai is impossible. We also cannot use the argument that he stole the Bankai from Ichigo since 1) such a thing was never stated by either Kūgo nor Ichigo (only his Fullbring was taken), and 2) it is impossible to steal a Bankai, because doing so would require the stealing of the Zanpakutō spirit, which is clearly not the case here.

Kūgo does have a Zanpakutō, shown in the flashback of Tsukishima as a child (it is resting on his hip). What happened to it (whether it fused with his Fullbring or something else) is unknown, however, it is clear to me at least that his use of Bankai comes because he has a Zanpakutō of his own. Therefore, I suggest we make a Zanpakutō section, detailing the appearance of the Zanpakutō shown in his flashback, and place the Bankai under that section. It'd make more sense than what is currently there.  ~ ~ Ten Tailed Fox   < t al k > 00:59, April 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * Im going to go with a no on this. Kugo's powers have been increasingly all over the place, since the realization of him being a substitute shinigami and none of his abilities have made any sense nor where they properly explained. We cant make a section for information we just dont have or can verify. We can talk up and down about the facts of a zanpakuto, but continuity was dropped in relation to the particular arc in question. It actually wouldnt make anymore sense, seeing as never in the canon material of bleach have we had someone go straight to bankai with no name mentioned or unique abilities. Its simply floating information at this point and would still continue to be under your idea seeing as we have literally no information besides whats already there, it would just be under the zanpakuto title. Considering how all over the place this is we dont know if thats even remotely accurate in Kugo's case. Maybe at a later time when we have more information, most likely from the databooks, we will be able to determine the information and properly place it.-- Salubri  (Chat)     02:01, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Needs more quotes

 * "Why? I will crush the Shinigami who betrayed me! You were supposed to tell me that that was wrong. Won't you... even give me that? Why? Those eyes... are the eyes of someone who is trying to understand me! To stand where I stand... and stay by me shoulder to shoulder! Will you- after all of that... still deny everything that I am!? Ichigo?"

Grimmjow2 (talk) 17:55, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * "Ichigo, if the order we arrived was reversed... I wonder, would our positions be reversed as well? Would you... be like me? Say, Ichigo... if we were reversed... If we were... would we..."

Do you have the references for these?? That's important!!

For the first quote, chapter 476. For the second, chapter 477. Grimmjow2 (talk) 01:35, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Well, Kugo's page has been unlocked recently, so you're more than welcome to add them yourself, but in addition to the chapter numbers, you also need to add the page numbers as well. Arrancar109 (Talk)  01:48, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

And finished adding the quotes. Someone might need to check it because I'm not good with adding citations.Grimmjow2 (talk) 13:22, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

That's good work thanks!!

Personality
I think it needs a rewrite to make it flow better. The first paragraph will be rewritten to talk about his more "good" qualities, while the second and onward will speak about the "true" Kugo.

Kūgo is a calm and cool-headed individual. He is shown to be very cautious and caring for his comrades, as he warns them in the presence of a great danger, fights together with them and is ready to even sacrifice himself in order to save a comrade. His comrades regard him as their savior and trust him enough to give him partial control of their abilities, a trust he reciprocates by giving them the power of Ichigo, as he promised. Perhaps the greatest instance of Kugo's altruism was when he found the young Tsukishima, crying, and befriended him, teaching him how to use his powers. According to a member of his group, he is a charming individual that talked them into following him. He can be brash and will go to extreme lengths to help those he considers comrades, even going so far as to play the role of an enemy, but he sucks at acting and cannot give an original performance and makes a 'cliched villain' out of himself. He also appears to be very concerned about innocent people and, in order to not involve them, he only picks the empty buildings if the battle were to occur.

He is quite manipulative, shown when he attempted to hire Ikumi Unagiya to do a background check on Isshin Kurosaki, intentionally doing so in front of Ichigo in order to get his attention.[4] When not under the influence of Tsukishima's Fullbring, Kūgo's manipulative nature is shown to be very malicious and he becomes sadistic, delighting at Ichigo's emotional and physical pain. He also becomes very arrogant, bragging about his accomplishments and underestimating his opponents to the point where he decides some people aren't worth killing, and ruthless, planning to kill a blindly loyal subordinate because he may cause a danger in the future. He becomes excited very easily, showing a psychotic smile whenever he is excited, and enjoys taking risks, like leaving Ishida out of Tsukishima's victims to give Ichigo a chance of figuring out what was going on.

He is shown to be a vengeful person, as he planned to get revenge on the Shinigami for long past transgressions. He is also fairly introspective as when he fought Ichigo he spent the last moments of it pondering if his choices were wrong and if he and Ichigo would be in opposite places had Ichigo become a Substitute Shinigami before him.

He claims that he carries ramen around with him because he likes it. (Why is this needed?)

Let's improve upon this draft together. The personality section as is is definitely lacking. Grimmjow2 (talk) 03:57, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

"Ramen" is just part of the personality, just like it says that Aizen liked tofu when he was a captain back on his page. Anyways, I like the rewrite. Just remember to add references so it does not get undone.--Blossom Tree (talk) 04:10, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

None of that is referenced--

I'm waiting for confirmation before I go find the references. I had them open while writing it. As for his love of ramen, that seems like trivia at best. Perhaps if someone could work it into a personality trait of some sort.Grimmjow2 (talk) 05:04, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Well, his love for ramen does go along the lines of his personality.--Blossom Tree (talk) 20:55, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I'll concede on the ramen thing. It'd be great if someone looked over the draft and possibly improve upon it. For someone that had so much panel time, his personality section cannot be so bare-bones.Grimmjow2 (talk) 03:28, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Kugo's Fullbring
A few points i'd like to mark...first off, i believe that another pic should be added in the original Cross of Scaffold Fullbring, showing it's black form with the skull emblem, and move the fullbring absorption ability to his original Fullbring, not the enhanced one, since he showed these forms and abilities before go stole Ichigo's Fullbring...opinions and ideas please? Thank you! Darksusanoo (talk) 23:28, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * The enhanced Fullbring section denotes his abilities after placing his badge on his sword. The things listed under there are correct as is.--


 * All fullbringers enhanced abilities, are of when they took Ichigo's powers...Kugo's one the other hand were previous to taking those powers, at best it should show pics of both blades on the original section...remember, Yukio stated they traded powers when they formed the group...plus combining the badge and blade isn't an enhancement, at best it's Kugo showing the true form of his Fullbring, much like Chad changes the form of his arms. Somethings should stay, but other should be moved because they are inaccurate Darksusanoo (talk) 23:54, July 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think it's worth pointing out that the Fullbring Armor he used is because of the powers he stole from Ichigo, and not just an enhancement. WestleyCole (talk) 16:59, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Abilities/Energy Beam
Shouldn't it be pointed out that the energy beam he fired off after entering Bankai appears similar to a Cero, given his Hollow powers? We can't say it was, because they didn't say it, I know. But I think the similarity should be noted, as well as the possible connection with his hollow powers. WestleyCole (talk) 00:01, August 29, 2012 (UTC)


 * Its speculation, we don;t speculate here.--


 * I realize I'm taking a risk by adding to this, and I do apologize if I am mistaken, but it sounds as though I failed to get my point across accurately. By that, I mean that I was not talking about speculation. See, if I said we should put, "it is basically a Cero", or "it is similar to a Cero", then yes, that'd be speculation. What I said was that it -appears- similar to a Cero. I did not even say that we should add the part about his Hollow powers, or that we should say it is somehow hollow-based. We shouldn't, to avoid giving off the wrong impression. AND to avoid speculating something we don't know. It could just as easily be a Bankai ability of his, or an upgrade of his Energy Blade thing similar to Ichigo's black Getsuga. Obviously, we can't put any of that because it would be speculating. I'm simply saying that it looks like a Cero. And that's worth noting, -for descriptive purposes only-. Kinda of like calling it purple. WestleyCole (talk) 17:08, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

Half Shinigami/Shinigami Power Origin
The article states that it's unknown how Ginjo got his power, however in chapter 433 he says the previous substitute shinigami (him), like Ichigo, was also born from a shinigami and a human. Red-kun (talk) 09:59, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
 * He was under the effects of Tsukishima's Fullbring at that point. The Substitute Shinigami he referred to is not him but a creation of Tsukishimas Fullbring. Even so, that does not answer the question of how he got his powers. Just because you are born of a Shinigami and a Human does not mean you magically awaken Shinigami powers one day. Karin and Yuzu do not have powers, Ichigo went through a very specific training to awaken his. We don't know how Kugo got his.--

Type of Swordsmanship
There's something I've been wondering about for some time now. Why do we link the Master Swordsman section of Kūgo's Powers & Abilities section to the Zanjutsu page when we have no idea if he ever received Zanjutsu training? Wouldn't it be more accurate to just have him as a Master Swordsman without a link, like the Arrancar, Quincy, and other Fullbringer articles? Seems speculative to me to say he was taught Zanjutsu when we've only seen his Shinigami past for less than a chapter, in which there was no fighting.--Xilinoc (talk) 04:59, August 16, 2013 (UTC)


 * Good point, its fixed.--

Question?
Just wondering if we get a flashback chapter or 2 that shows us how Ginjo and the other Fullbringers meet the Shibas, which part of the plot will we place it in, the Lost Agent arc or the 1000 year Blood War arc? CoolJazzman (talk) 17:14, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * Since they would have met the Shibas upon or soon after death, it would likely be placed in the Fullbring arc section.--Xilinoc (talk) 21:12, September 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * It will depend on exactly what is shown in any such flashback and will be examined at the time (if it ever happens). We cannot give a definitive answer before then. 10:39, September 13, 2013 (UTC)