Board Thread:Improvements and Issues/@comment-4380468-20160703011636

This is in response to the previous discussions entitled "Ichigo's place in the Shiba clan", and "Again...about the Shiba Clan" closed 3 months ago by SunXia. In retrospect, after writing and previewing before posting, this is a bit long-winded, so I'd like to say, you might be able to shorten your reading time by skipping over the sections with (parenthesis), because they aren't necessarily necessary, they just help clarify a few things I say here and there.

I first off would like to state, that while the discussion was going in circles, and was, in fact, perhaps a bit redundant, this is still the forum, and not an actual page containing only factual information. Forum's are for discussion, and therefore, if the discussion is still active, I cannot help but think that they shouldn't be closed for the reason of the conversation going no where in a hurry.

That being said however, I would also like to take this opportunity to state that in fact, SunXia is correct that it has not be Specifically stated that Isshin is the Uncle mentioned by Kukaku Shiba, and therefore shouldn't be listed as their Uncle.

Now that's out of the way, I'll get to the reason I am starting this thread. The main problem I have with the conversation from the previously stated thread, is not (as I stated above) the question of whether Isshin is the uncle of Kukaku and Ganju, but as to whether Isshin, Ichigo, Karin, and Yuzu, are members of the Shiba Clan.

I would like to start out by pointing out that "Clan" (I'm not sure where they got it from, but I got this from the Google search for definition of the word Clan) is "a group of close-knit and interrelated families". There can be "Clans" whose members are not related, but in that case, it is an Organization. The Shiba clan is not an organization, and therefore, to be a member, one must be either "Born" into the clan (by which I mean having blood relation, such as a Grandchild of a member would still be a member of the clan even though it is possible the actual relation to the clan is genetically "1/4") or one must be "Adopted" (which includes as SunXia put it, being "Inducted" into the clan).

In the case of the "Kurosaki" family, the only member which isn't related by blood to the Shiba Clan is Masaki. This means that the only one of the family that isn't a member of the clan is Masaki. Isshin, Ichigo, Karin, and Yuzu could be stated to be members.

Which brings me to my next point, that being, whether or not they are actually members of the clan just because they are (Directly in this case) related to the clan. Again I would like to bring up the definition of "Clan", being "a group of close-knit and interrelated families". While all of the current known (and listed) members of the Shiba clan have the name "Shiba", simply being a "Kurosaki" doesn't exclude them from being members of the Shiba Clan. This can be shown (somewhat) by the custom of in some (most would probably be more accurate, but since I don't know the actual statistics, I use "some") marriages, the woman who marries into a family (I don't know about Japanese customs, but I certainly know in America anyway) doesn't stop carrying the name from their original family. The name originally belonging to them becomes their "Maiden Name". While this isn't the case with Isshin (Yes, he's not a woman, that's not important to my point), that's not my point. My point is that they keep the name as a "Maiden Name", because they never left the family from which they came.

This brings us to the point of "He abandoned the Shiba Clan and the Gotei 13." This might be true in the sense that he hasn't Interacted with them, but he hasn't necessarily "abandoned" them. "Abandoned" implies that he has cut all ties with them, and is no longer associated with them. Concerning the Gotei 13, being an organization, having had his position filled, and therefore, revoked for him, he is essentially no longer a part of the Gotei 13. This however doesn't mean that he isn't associated with them, nor does it mean that he isn't occasionally their ally (but truly, I digress). As for the Shiba Clan, he never specifically left the clan, and that brings me to my next (and hopefully) final point.

For this point, I would like to take a direct quote from the "Again...about Shiba Clan" page, from SunXia. (Sorry, I don't know how to do the "??? wrote" thing, or if that even works across pages, but if you wish, you can check it in that thread, it is from the last post near the bottom, I just copied and pasted.)

" Ichigo has not been shown as a member of the Shiba Clan but he has been shown as a member of the Kurosaki Family with his father and sisters and deceased mother. This in now way takes away from the fact that they are related to the Clan by blood but they are not currently active members of that clan."

The key term in that quote I would like to draw your attention to is the "active members" part. It is true that Isshin (and therefore his children) are not Active members of the Shiba Clan, but that doesn't mean that they are not members. It isn't like they suddenly ceased being related to the Shiba Clan simply because Isshin took the name Kurosaki. In fact (again), Isshin never specifically left the Shiba Clan, he simply didn't go back to the Soul Society. Therefore, while Isshin and his children aren't "Active Members", they are still members. Also, I would like to point out again that the Shiba Clan is a Clan in the sense of being a Family, and not an Organization. You can't "Leave" the clan like you could an Organization. With an Organization, you can leave as you see fit, cut all ties and all what not, but with a family, while you can almost achieve the same thing, you cannot change the blood relation (i.e. You can't change your family). With Family Clans, you can be "Excommunicated", or you can specifically "Disavow" (being kind of the opposite of "Disown" in this case) yourself from the family, and in either case, you could say that Isshin was no longer a member of the clan. However, neither of these have been shown, and therefore didn't necessarily happen. (i.e. There are no Facts to support either of those actually happening.)

In closing, this very, VERY, long post (sorry about that), was about proving that while not ACTIVE, Isshin, Ichigo, Karin, and Yuzu, are MEMBERS of the Shiba Clan. Therefore, I would suggest adding it to their pages and the Shiba Clan page. This however to be fair should include the addendum of being Inactive, therefore there can be no mistake that there is little to no interaction, or acknowledgement of the connection, but the information is still included, meaning everyone is happy. Leave your thoughts, and thanks for listening to my long-winded rambling. :) Garrec3 (talk) 01:16, July 3, 2016 (UTC) 