Forum:Anyone else miss Ichigo's Fullbring powers?

I dunno, while his new appearance as a Shinigami is cool, I honestly rather liked Ichigo as a Fullbringer. It was more interesting to see him have powers in his human body, and the entire concept of Fullbringers just sort of fitted for his character. Am I the only one that's kind of disappointed they gave him cool new abilities just to take them away and give his old ones back with a different look? Bloodtom1 (talk) 23:19, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Nope it couldn't be gone fast enough. Look at Fullbrings in general they are unique and different and thats nice to have in the story for some change but over all Fullbrings are weak. Prime example look at Chad through the series while he was a good fighter he barely made it through his fights. If its an Arrancar or Shinigami they essentially dont stand a chance we know that much. Ichigo having one didn't really even make any sense considering the description on how someone attains a fullbring. They never explain how Ichigo can even have one so it really doesn't fit him, it actually makes no sense that he even has one. Mostly what we see of it is the look it really wasn't used enough for it to be missed. Also humans bodies arent as durable its easily to get killed, thus why Quincy powers are ranged they stay as far away from the opponent as possible cause of this very reason. I also would say what cool new abilities he didnt do anything but move a bit faster then normal as a human, get some body armor and shoot a little getsuga tensho there was really nothing there. Whatever his fullbring was its not enough to fight on par with the opponents he has to face.--Salubri (Talk)  23:44, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Actually, I myself liked it. I can see Salubri's points, but I feel that Ichigo's Fullbring was gone too quickly, and we didn't get to see how he would adapt to fighting with Fullbring powers in his Human body. It's too bad that it's gone, but even so, it's still good to have his Shinigami powers back. Arrancar109 (Talk)  23:55, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Fullbrings arent exactly weaker - bare in mind, Ichigo underwent giant leaps in power, so naturally he dwarfed Chad pretty fast - he similarly outpaced many Shinigami who've been training for hundreds of years. That being said, while Chad may not have grown in power as much as Ichigo did, neither did anyone else - everyone else's power was pretty constant, with the most any of them did really becoming a new way to use existing powers (the only exceptions to this rule seem to be the Shinigami who learned Bankai through the course of the series and Tosen after hollowification.) Fullbrings may not be quite as strong as Shinigami powers, but I think that was part of the charm - Ichigo was no longer so powerful that he could beat anything. He was no longer weighted by what I like to call Dragonball's Folly - where characters become so powerful through the course of a series that there's really nothing that can challenge them without making it even more inhumanly powerful, at which point they'd just become even stronger, beat that, and the problem is born anew. There is evidence in what I say, as in the recent chapter, Kugo states that stealing Ichigo's powers has allowed him to survive an attack that normally would have killed him, showing that Ichigo's powers are acceptionally strong - even his Fullbring. This is, perhaps, why Xcution was focused on stealing his powers, because it would let them take advantage of something that is apparantly unique to Ichigo himself. Bloodtom1 (talk) 00:25, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

What your referring to is Ichigo as a Shinigami as a human he is gonna be limited, there is no gauge of how much powerful he is compared to to other fullbringers. Also Shinigami are more likely to constantly grow in power due to a number of factors they are consistent in that regard. Chad has become a bit stronger and Orihime learned a new technique so they have advanced as well though slower then a shinigami most likely would have. There is a great inconsistency in Ichigo's power in the show at times he seems greatly powered and at others he is average, his power in the series is consistently inconsistent. While different his fullbring wouldnt be sufficient for the opponents that he would have fight. I also dont recall Ginjo saying that him being able to survive the attack was because of ichigo's power that he took either. Xcution was after power in general, its never explained why they target ichigo for that purpose, maybe cause he was a former shinigami at the time. --Salubri (Talk)  00:42, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

I also sort of miss Ichigo's Fullbring powers, yea I also hated it at first but I actually sorta like the look of it and would like to see it reencorperated into Ichigo's restored Shinigami powers when this is all said and done. It would be nice for Ichigo to have something to fall back on in human form so he dosen't have to become a shinigami all the time so he can fight. I hate how it looks better on the Xcution members then it dose on him. Hopfully if it gets returned to Ichigo it will evolve into a better look. But like I said the spiderberry look kinda grew on me. I'd also like to see how it affects his hollow mask and bankai if it changed his shikai form that much. Also, love the new design for Zangetsu. On a side note I think that Yamamoto desided to restore his powers because either his dad somehow related to Soul King which is my friends theory or that Yamamoto isn't too long for this world and wants Ichigo to replace him which is mine. --Thunderstudent (Talk)  August 31, 2011 (UTC) 8:55 pm *can't remember what it is in military time*

Have you read the recent two chapters? Ginjo stated in today's chapter (I found it on Mangastream) that Ichigo's power allowed him to survive a Getsuga Tensho - he stated had he not taken his powers he would have been dead. Afterwards, he went on to share Ichigo's powers with the rest of Xcution, who's fullbrings all transformed into clad-types apparantly (he said they don't evolve by growth - never said anything about power-stealing apparantly.) This implies that Ichigo's fullbring was exceptionally powerful, and when paired with Ginjo's, gave him enough strength to stand up to a massive Getsuga Tensho. Also, Shinigami are probably more likely to become stronger, but that's cause a Shinigami's existence is heavily combat oriented - training and growing in power is a prerequisit. Bare in mind, Ichigo's growth is much greater than any known Shinigami - by the time he came to Soul Society, he could fight Renji on even terms, and by the time he left, he was very closely matched to Byakuya (probably would have been evenly matched if Byakuya's Bankai wasn't considerably more dangerous.) Fullbringers, likewise, probably don't do much in the way of training, as it is implied most, if not all, Fullbringers are born with their powers (Ichigo and Chad seem to be the acception to this rule, though it's hard to say if they werent born with Fullbring or if they just manifested it later.) Ichigo's power fluxuates - this is stated by Ulquiorra. Also, Thunderstudent, I agree, I would like Ichigo's fullbring to look a little less 'labored' but the concept, to me, is far more interesting than his original powers were. Bloodtom1 (talk) 01:17, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Thats a leap to say that Ichigos power is so great it protected him. It could be that it acts like armor the insinuation isnt enough to state it was the greatness of the power but the fact that the power has obvious defensive capability. Once again its good storyline to make ichigo the great protagonists, but largely inconsistent thats what it is to be Ichigo. Chad is also not the acceptation he always had the power it just didn't awaken till later which apparently is true for all Fullbringers, it would be a whole different problem if they were born capable of using the powers instead of them awakening later. Ichigo is the only one that doesn't make sense, he shouldnt have it at all, he doesn't fit the criteria for how it develops. Also Thunderstundet you should read the speculation policy, your basically putting out fan fiction at this point. --Salubri (Talk)  01:26, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

One can assume this, true, but considering before the scene they had one of the traditional 'bunches of lines' effects that is usually used to express a massive reiatsu, shortly after, the reveal of Ginjo with his new armor, that it was an attempt to say 'he just got REALLY powerful.' Also, Ichigo DOES fit the criteria in a sense - remember, his Fullbring is actually an expression of his Shinigami powers - which may explain why his Fullbring was stronger. This is implied when Ginjo states that someone born of a Shinigami and Human can releive them of their powers, and seeing as it is implied one needs to learn Fullbring to do this (though I submit this could also have been a lie on Kugo's part, though this is unlikely as at the time he thought he was Ichigo's ally) so while a true Fullbringer may gain their powers from Hollows, Ichigo probably got his by way of his Shinigami heritage instead. Also, let Thunderstudent have some speculation - just because this is a discussion doesn't mean you can't let some occur once in a while. I say have fun with it if it's relevant. Bloodtom1 (talk) 01:37, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Policies are what keeps the line of thinking out of articles which users tend to like to do. Speculation is fine as long as it comes from existing information when you make stuff up out of nowhere thats fan fiction and thats another site altogether. Read Fullbring there is no relevant connection explaining why Ichigo has access to a fullbring regardless of what Kugo has said this is a old issue. In fact Ichigo having one especially while possessing no powers at the time is even more of an issue considering how it is explained, while a object is a focus it is not where the power develops from. They basically just gave it to Ichigo. Then again theorize if you choose, I personally only deal in confirmed info.--Salubri (Talk)  02:11, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

No need to be one of those people who starts cracking skulls over the speculation thing - I mean, it really does little good in the end. As for what I said, it is admittedly speculation, but my speculation DOES revolve around heavily made implications - particularly, he says that someone with human and shinigami powers could take fullbrings. He doesn't make any statements besides that, like one of the parents having to have been attacked by a hollow (though one might submit that a shinigami will likely be attacked by one at some point.) This suggests that shinigami/human offspring have the power in them to learn Fullbring by default. This maybe in a sense speculation, but even your theory that Fullbringers are weaker than Shinigami is speculation based on what you've seen - the story hasn't given such a scenerio, and even shows that Chad's growth in power has allowed him to fight powerful enemies (he just has the misfortune to get attacked by particularly strong opponents at certain points that even dwarf Ichigo's power at the times he (Chad) faces them. Bloodtom1 (talk) 02:27, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

As an admin it is exactly my job to watch out for the wrong kind of speculation as this is one of the strictest sites to be on. Secondly fullbringers being weaker isn't speculation the information is based on determined evidence based on a number of factors, being human the most defined part of that. Chad misfortune doesn't really feature in Quincy, Human with spiritual powers, Fullbring I do the fight articles on this site i know for a fact they get by but in sheer power they dont match up with more spiritually capable opponents.--Salubri (Talk)  03:34, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Salubri, calm down. We don't know much about the Fullbring except what Kubo has revealed. There might be more to the Fullbring then what we were already told. As for Ichigo having one, it is possible Masaki was attacked while she was pregnent with Ichigo due to his high spiritual energy. It might also be possible that Grand Fisher attacked her once before but she survived the encounter. Another possibility is that since Ichigo's Shinigami and Hollow powers are somewhat linked and were driven to dormency after the FGT *Yamamoto said the would restore Ichigo's powers, not give him new ones, not change his soul RESTORE, also Rukia and Uruhara have both mentioned Ichigo's powers come from deep within his soul* his Fullbring might be a partal manifestation of his dorment hollow powers. Until more is revealed we can only guess and speculate on how Ichigo had the potential to gain a Fullbring, what Yamamoto's motives were and are and where Kubo will take the story next. Also speaking of Ichigo, his page needs to be updated, everyone else involved in the story seemed to get a page update and not him. Thunderstudent (Talk) August 31, 2011 (UTC) 12:55

I miss calling Ichigo a Spider-Strawberry.Licourtrix (talk) 15:54, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Salubri was a little bit right to put a leash on the discussion. "Yamamoto not long for this world"..."Fullbrings being obtained through the Shinigami Powers"... These things thrash beyond the limits of speculation we can allow until proven, particularly the one concerning "Isshin is related to the Soul King". I really don't remember too much of that stuff, but there were a bunch of things that were rampantly speculative.

On Ichigo's Fullbring: he's a head-scratcher. It could be any of the things you mentioned; leftover Hollow power (unlikely), Masaki getting attacked by a Hollow (plausible), the Hollow reiatsu coming from Isshin fighting Hollows (much more likely but even more head-scratching), the list goes on and on. It's a jumbled mess, and if it weren't so muddled then Sal probably would've let you continue to speculate, except that the origination of his Fullbring could have hundreds of roughly plausible paths, and he wants to stop it while the number of paths are relatively few. Ichigo is an extremely special case, having shinigami and Hollow powers already and being a human too is quite unique enough, but having a Fullbring too is just way too much. Too convenient, if you ask me. That's why it's best if we leave the subject and agree to disagree.

Fullbring vs. Zanpakuto: There is no confirmation that Shinigami are more powerful than Fullbringers strength-wise, but the fact is Fullbringers are human. Shinigami can survive hits that are lethal to most humans. That's where their advantage lies, besides Bankai and whatnot. Some of the things that would kill most humans would be barely noticeable by the Shinigami, with the exception of definite criticals like head-shots. Fullbring is nice, but human bodies are frail by temperament and can be destroyed far more easily than Shinigami bodies. Kugo was extremely lucky he had Ichigo's defensive clad-type to protect him, or he would've been vaporized easily; the Fullbring protecting him is more durable than he is.

I personally didn't like the Fullbring. It wasn't anything particularly special. I looked at it at first and said "ok, he's got a shield now! That'll make things interesting!" I was really hoping Ichigo could play defensive and offensive interchangeably, as having a shield and a sword leaves you with more options rather than just a sword. However, Kubo ruined it for me by turning it into a clad-type. It was still nice, but I really face-palmed when I saw Getsuga Tensho. Really? Come on. This is nothing new whatsoever. It was pretty much at that point when I wanted his Fullbring to die so we could have the old Zangetsu back. And I didn't get my wish ;(

...instead...

We got the NEW Zangetsu!! XD AHAHAHAHAHAHA Sorry, I'm really starting to turn into a trollololer, aren't I? I'll wrap this up now: I like Ichigo's new Shinigami form way better than any of his Fullbring forms. You're probably tired of me typing now, so I'll just leave off there. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  22:54, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Then answer me this - if Fullbring powers are so much weaker than Shinigami powers, why would Ginjo have gone to the effort to train Ichigo to take his power? There is stronger evidence that Ichigo's fullbring powers beefed him up considerably (He emits a strong spiritual pressure after transforming) than there is that armor just protected him from a massive Getsuga Tensho, and then he had enough to spare to actually divide amongst him and the other four members of Xcution that we can easily assume they are all considerably more threatening, if Kubo keeps up with his usual pattern. Also, my idea about Ichigo's Fullbring being related to his Shinigami powers maybe speculation, but it has evidence - his Fullbring mimics his Shinigami powers (particularly in that he is 'cloaked in power' and can access Getsuga Tensho) and at the same time his fullbring powers experience the same jumps that his Shinigami powers did (as evidenced when he evolved into phase two and it was believed his Fullbring was going berserk) so while there may not be 100% proof positive my speculation is right, it is just as possible as Fullbringers being fundimentally weaker. You have to remember, on that note, that Fullbringers are not weaker than Shinigami - they just rely entirely on their fullbring focuses in combat. One must remember that Chad's development, while not matching Ichigo, was still pretty descent - we can't say if he is stronger or weaker cause you must remember the major fights he loses are agains a particularly powerful Shinigami (Shunsui) and a particularly powerful Arrancar (Nnoitra) - the former of which fought on par with Coyote Stark, the Number 1 Espada, and the latter of which was almost evenly matched by Kenpachi. To say he is weaker for losing to these two (with at least one of them having had hundreds of years of training) is to merely assume that they can't beat enemies who are weaker. We never really had a proper guage for how much stronger Chad became because he kept getting attacked by opponents even Ichigo would have trouble with - one opponent (Nnoitra) who even came close to killing him. Bloodtom1 (talk) 13:24, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

We have no idea why Ginjo went to the effort he did with Ichgio. There could be any number of reasons, but there isn't enough evidence to determine anything. The basic point is that Ichigo is capable of holding a large reserve of spiritual power. Therefore its easy to distribute what he has to others. Its pressure is inconsistent through the series so to say that how much he has and how powerful it is are balanced out the same as with most characters isnt true in his case. (In other words while at times he is capable of feats of great power its not consistent enough to say he is powerful right off in every instance). Its the difference between quantity and quality. His fullbring powers are also stated to have eventually merged with his shinigami powers (which he barely had at the time) which was the apparent point Ginjo had, thats why he was able to use a getsuga tensho with it, otherwise they are entirely separate. His fully formed and stabilized fullbring had nothing to do with his shinigami powers. The unstable one had the look of him as a shinigami proving that with any power he has it was gonna be clad-type just as Ichigo has when he is a shinigami, which the opposite of the majority fullbringers whose powers are object-types. Also trying to state fullbring is powerful because its unfair to rate chads powers cause his opponents where powerful isnt accurate. Its about whether he can take on any opponent he comes across, if you just pick the weakest characters that wouldnt be any more accurate a showing either. To date Chad has between (in manga) a few hollows, a 3rd seat (who wasnt taking the fight seriously and got knocked out before anything even happened), a privion espada and a low level arrancar. He completely lost to a captain and an Espada. No one said he couldnt fight but when brought against true high level opponents he couldnt even hold his own when (even by luck) when his human friends could (namely uryu). Now by the extra power Xcution received they maybe a problem. Though with base power they are no more dangerous to a serious shinigami then chad was or even the more powerful Quincy who had been all but wiped out. To say chad is weak compared to a captain or espada would be completely accurate, in any series or fight the small wins are good but if you cant take the big problem, and he had advanced alot by then, then what was the point. If you use chad as a reference that could be true of all fullbringers, to say they are not weak they just really rely on their fullbring in combat is accurate but just as accurate would be thats also all they have to fight with. Even the Quincy another group of humans with power are capable of more with just their innate powers, immediately we know they arent as powerful as a shinigami or an espada either but their versatility and way their powers work to make up for the fact they are humans. Its just a fact of the series humans regardless of power arent gonna be as powerful as spiritual beings (aside from Orihime's which arent combat based), even ichigo has to go into spiritual form, which his wins have been achieved in). I could say that the fact that Ginjo would steal anothers power to empower himself as well as the rest of xcution would confirm that under normal circumstances they cant fight a shinigami, which is what they are apparently about to do. Though I will allow the story to give that answer, then we will see whether your speculation is right or the facts already presented in the story are gonna remain consistent to the pattern and foundation Kubo has already set up. -<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  15:24, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

I really don't miss them. I like the Soul Society being in the story a lot more than Xcution. Besides, I don't even like Ichigo that much anyway. The Soul Society was way more developed than Xcution, along with the Visoreds (who I sincerely hope reappear again). User:Shadewing/Sig 16:53, September 2, 2011 (UTC) Shadewing

This is no big news, but I really liked Ichigo's Shinigami powers more than his Fullbring powers. For the first one Ichigo had, I kind of thought it was interesting, but my opinion dropped when he did the "throw Fullbring like a Shuriken" thing and failed. It would have been funny if he had been able to do something like that. His second Fullbring, why did I like it? Guess.



The third Fullbring? I really thought nothing of it. It just didn't look too great on him in my opinion. All I saw was what appeared to be Ichigo as a superhero. And it really didn't fit.

Although, I still hope Ichigo's Bankai hasn't changed too much. I liked it as it was. <font color="Navy" size="2px">A Shining Star appeared!! <font color="silver" size="1px">(Make a Wish)  18:13, September 2, 2011 (UTC)

Like I said, we don't know much about Fullbring and Kubo has yet to explane why The Xcution want's to use Ichigo's powers to boost their own. Just the fact they're humans makes them somewhat more vulnerable then even a non-shinigami or hollow spirt, but we don't have any sort of real basis to compare them to. Also we don't know who made Kūgo a Substitute Shinigami. For all we know it could have been Aizen who did so as apart of his plan or as a back up, however the prevailing rumor is that it was Isshen and that he had to use the FGT to stop him. I just hope this is explaned in the next chapter. There are a lot of loose ends here that need tieing up, almost makes me wish Mayori was there to give some sort of in-universe scientific explanation for everything.

Thunderstudent (Talk) September 3, 2011 (UTC) 6:26 pm

After some recent chapters of Bleach, this much can be determined (assuming it isn't 'too much speculation' or something) - it was stated that Ichigo's Fullbring was the ability to 'wear ones' powers as a mantle and use them in the physical world' - through this we can assume that Fullbring essentially allowed Ichigo to use his Shinigami powers while in his human body. It may still count as speculation, but at this point I feel it is very well-educated in status. I may post more in a speculation friendly environment on what I think of this. Also, I wasn't too fond of the appearance at first myself, but it grew on me fast. It didn't seem like a superhero outfit to me - it seemed like a knight's armor. It gave Ichigo a less 'old japan' appearance and gave him something more modern. But his apperance is not why I liked the Fullbring - I liked the concept. Weakened, but not too weak, he could be challenged again, he could grow again. To me this was also cool cause it took away much of his game-breaking power - I like the hero to be strong, but when they become as strong as Ichigo did, the novelty wears off. Also, baring in mind what Ginjo did, I have to ask myself: what could have changed? I won't elaborate on that for fear of it being counted speculation, but it is fun to wonder. Bloodtom1 (talk) 08:47, September 16, 2011 (UTC)

Second post in a row, sorry, but I thought of more to say.

One thing I liked about Fullbring is it gave Ichigo a new dimension. He started fighting in his living body, rather than having to shed it like a shell and fight as a superpowered ghost. Ichigo was made simple. His powers were back in a simpler fashion, he didn't have to shed his body like a jacket and 'die' temporarily, and he was brought down to being on par with the other heroes rather than being the single mightiest warrior in either the living world or soul society. Plus, given his fullbring was supposed to fuse with his shinigami powers, it was like he was using powers exclusive to him as a human born from a shinigami father. Not to mention, as a Fullbringer, he was less 'beurocratic' than the Soul Society's shinigami.Bloodtom1 (talk) 06:10, September 17, 2011 (UTC)

musings
There are too many posts to read through so I don't know if anyone's said it but Ichigo's Fullbring was just an extension of his shinigami powers. When he used the final Getsuga against Aizen, it didn't take his powers away, it only hid them which we can see by the fact that Isshin has already used it yet he's back to captain power. It's in the premise of the show that Ichigo is always stronger with his friends. Rukia and everyone else just made him remember who he was. Also, is Xcution the final Bleach arc? Chapter 479 was released two weeks ago and there hasn't been an update. Someone told me it would be released February 13 but Bleach has never been on hiatus this long before so it seems as though the series ends with "Memories are our bonds." and "The young shine so bright that the old avert their eyes."


 * Sign your post. That is somewhat of am inaccurate simplification. Ichigo's powers were for all purposes gone. He had no spiritual power or awareness at all. Gradually over time they started to return (at least the awareness aspect of it) but to say that they were hidden is like saying a person experiencing memory loss had their memories hidden away. While it would make sense to say that to a degree it would be a lazy and dumbed down way to say what has really taken place, in this case thats not really what happened. His fullbring is also not an extension of his shinigami powers. They are two separate powers and possess two separate origins. Fullbring is hollow based and is only possess-able by a human, shinigami are spirits who possess great spiritual power that allows them to do supernatural things. Whatever the situation was that allowed his getsuga tensho to merge with his fullbring is never explained or really understood. Isshin lost his powers for 20 years, hidden would imply he only had to work to get them back which wasnt the case, for either Isshin or Ichigo. Ichigo is also not stronger because of his friends. They may act as a reason for him to become stronger and fight back with greater skill but thats largely his choice. The premise is that Ichigo is only significantly strong when he has to protect his friends. This arc showed him that is not only the reason to fight but that there is more to him then simply wanting power to protect others. The Lost Substitute Shiningami arc is not the final arc and in fact bleach was on hiatus for 3 weeks previously before this current one. --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  23:03, January 25, 2012 (UTC)