Forum:Old chapter discussions (merged topics)

I deleted the two 'majors' talks about that chapter in the watercooler and moved it there

Yammy's theory
Hey-ya, while I'm on the wiki, I can't resist, I'm gonna put there something that came to me with the new chapter :

[As I already said in the tittles, the chapter is not even released into fanscan

so don't read below

if you don't wanna be spoiled

!SPOILER!]

If anyone thinks it's clever enough to be commented :)

Well here's my theorie. Again, if you don't want to be spoiled, do not read this.

--Suzumushi 22:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

-- Lia Schiffer 22:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Salubri 23:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Salubri 23:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

--Suzumushi 13:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

--Suzumushi 13:07, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-367-page-9.html

thats why he was taken with aizen or used his full power. he was just building up engergy this entire time. I knew that couldn't be it. like aizen would be an idiot and leave Hueco mundo unprotected with just Ulqu with 4 captains, and ichigo and company. its going to play out as everyone attacking yami at the same time. some will be batted around like flys and when they actually start getting the upper hand. yammi will do some big ass cero and try to kill himself along with everyone, but then nel will try to aborb it and end up killing herself in the process firing it back at yami, but i really hope that does not happen cause nel is one of my favs.

Yammy, the ultimate Espada, or the enemy of gigantic proportions? Dekoshu talk contrib 20:06, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

=Chapter 354's talk=

Wow... just wow. That's just a bunch of crazy stuff down there. Yammy reveals that he is actually the 0 Espada? This brings the question: what exactly is he? I'm aware of the other thread revolving around this, but this isn't the only thing I wanted to talk about here. It also seems like the fight between Halibel and Hitsugaya is about take a new turn. I've been anxious to see her release for a long time. It seems like the attention is gonna shift back into the Fake Karakura Town for awhile now. I wanted to see that again, but not until after the Hueco Mundo team's stuff with Yammy and Ulquiorra was dealt with at least, and that's only half-done. While I would like to talk about how the biggest idiot in the Espada turns out to be the strongest as well, I'll get to that later. Personally, regarding the Hisugaya vs. Halibel fight, I think Hitsugaya should lose this fight though. No, I don't hate him, but Ichigo couldn't even scratch Ulquiorra's first stage of resurreccion, and he was in bankai and using his Hollow Mask. Assuming Halibel can't do Segunda Etapa (I still find it doubtful) as well, Hitsugaya still shouldn't be able to win... at least not alone. Maybe we'll get to see some of the other captains' bankai as well. Any thoughts? Arrancar109 05:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Well as you know I feel the same way about the Yammy thing I dont know how any of it really makes sense. It just doesnt add up for me. But I als o think we're doing alot of reaching assuming just cause he has the position that means something. It means nothing normally, Yammy isn't really smart and he might just have alot of strength. I think the Espada in general are cannon fodder, something set up by Aizen to distract or ware down the shinigami. I dont really think as smart and as he is, he actually believed the best of soul society would be beaten so easily by beings that cant be more powerful then him (considering how could he control them otherwise). As far as hitsuguya's fight Im sure he can hold up enough, i mean i know ichigo couldn't barely scratch ulquiorra but lets not forget as good as ichigo is he is not the most powerful in the series despite being what he is, if anything he's only as powerful or more so then the opponent he is currently facing at the time and then how powerful are they in comparison to others. Hitsuguya might struggle and might not i think it depends (even as a captain i doubt he has reached his full potential so its uncertain) if anything i think this would be a opportune time for the Vizard to make their appearance finally. After all they owe Aizen some serious pain. I really hope to see some more from the lesser seen captains and lieutenants. At the same time we have to recognize though theres a broader picture to this. Shinigami losing is kind of a danger to the support of the series. Its based around them. They are a fundamental part of the cycle of life, without them well existence is gonna become nonexistent the balance will be destroyed and that wont do any good. The storyline part isnt even so much about the arrancar as it is about Aizen and his plans set forth by them. Salubri 19:06, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I already am well aware that Ichigo isn't the most powerful character in the universe. I actually think some of the elder captains (including the vizards) surpass him in strength. My comparison of Ichigo's strength to Hitsugaya's comes from their opponents, not just states of power. Ichigo and Hitsugaya both fought against a 6th Espada. While in the living world Ichigo struggled with a powered-down/one-armed Grimmjow, he was able to get unusually stronger between then and his third fight with him and maintain his Hollow mask stronger. Hitsugaya fought against Luppi and was losing at first. In fact, Hitsugaya himself states that he was only able to turn the battle against Luppi because Luppi was distracted with other opponents and his attention was turned away from Hitsugaya who had time to build up a finishing move. I won't factor in the fact that Grimmjow easily killed Luppi (mostly because he was only recently treated almost after they returned to Hueco Mundo), but Luppi wasn't even an Espada until after Grimmjow was demoted. These and Hitsugaya struggling with Halibel's sealed form are reasons why I see Hitsugaya not winning against Halibel on his own. I actually only think he'd win if he got help from at least one of the other captains, and I think it is probable that one of them might help him.

As for Yammy... I myself have my suspicions of his newly revealed 0 rank. While it seems to imply that he's the most powerful, he said he was building up energy over the time he was inactive during the Las Noches invasion. This suggests to me that his level might not be set in concrete. Additionally, his size is ridiculous. He might just have pure power and strong projectile attacks in this form, but considering how large he is, he may not be able to maneuver very well in this form. Assuming his hierro isn't too resistant to the invaders' attacks, they might have a speed advantage over him, but I see them needing help with the still-aloof captains at least. I wouldn't count on the "releasing within Las Noches" rule saying anything about Yammy's strength just that. With the exception of the fact that Ulquiorra's been hiding his full power from Aizen, he seems to do everything Aizen says, including following this rule, despite him being away from Las Noches. Ulquiorra pretty much thought for Yammy and had to restrain him from releasing in the Human World, and Yammy has shown that he isn't very perceptive, nor does he think things through. So I highly doubt the Forbidden Release rule confirms his strength level. Arrancar109 07:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I for one, would like to see one actually losing by themselves to one of the Espada. Dekoshu talk contrib 19:14, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I see what is being said about the Yammy thing it does seem just too weird. As for the Hitsuguya thing it seems like everybody likes to discount him all the time. Least we not forget Ichigo wouldn't be defeating anyone if not for his Vizard powers, as he just doesnt have the much skill and experience yet. Hitsuguya is young but he obviously has lots of potential and like ichigo in the right circumstance when pushed to his limits he will come out and do his thing, after all he is a prodigy. Mind that they all have never really seriously fought arrancar up until this point, its all new to them, like fighting a hollow was when they originally became shinigami, they just gotta learn and get better. So I dont know whats gonna happen but im itching to see. YesMonarch 00:38, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

RE:Wow
I'm,like,freaking out! I didn't think that Yammy would be the most Powerful Espada,this hurts my brain. And About Toshiro-taichou;I think it's safe to say Some one will help him,unless Kubo wants people to stop reading... gohanRULEZ 06:42, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Concerning the "10's" in question:

Hitsugaya activated Bankai against Halibel before she even considered releasing. She was then able to hold her own against him without too much effort. We already know that an Espada's Resurrección gives him/her an enormous increase in power. So, unless Hitsugaya has been hiding some previously-unseen form, a la Ulquiorra (although I find such a development absurd), he has already lost, and the only question is whether Hitsugaya is defeated outright or is bailed out by another captain.

As for Yammy, I had noticed earlier that even after the 9th through 4th had shown their Resurrección, Yammy had yet to do so. From a writing perspective, it would be ridiculously anticlimactic for the weakest Espada to release his zanpakuto only to be taken down by Renji or Chad alone. Also, since Yammy is rather large even in his unreleased form, it would be logical to assume that, like Poww, Yammy's size would increase dramatically upon release. I had a feeling his number would change upon release, and am very unsurprised that his "true" number is zero. Zooropa XIX 06:30, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

This is stupid
When there will be a shinigami captain that will actually lose to a Espada for real this is tiresome, unoriginal, and unbelievable. I wanted to see a captain lose to Yammy in his released form or to Halibel for once. I mean, is Tite Kubo is TRYING to make Espada look weak on and defeated by captains on purpose?! I watched other anime, and this is the opposite. I mean, even I see Ichigo losing sometimes. This is racist! Come on Tite Kubo, make them really lose in battle for once. Tite Kubo better not ruin his own creation. At least Akira Toriyama made them lose once in a while. Even the elite should lose once in the while. D:< Dekoshu talk contrib 18:32, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I really hope Halibel win this time, and if the author wants Toshiro to win because he's a man, then that's sexist. It should be Halibel who will win against Captain Hitsugaya.Dekoshu talk contrib 18:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I still believe there should be one losing to the Espada. I don't care what you say. Unless one of them truly lost to them, I won't agree. If one wins, they should lose as well. If one loses, they should win as well. Same thing: If a Shinigami wins, they should lose, if an Espada loses, an Espada should also win. Are they the most powerful arrancar for a reason or without a reason? At least Ichigo lost to Grimmjow and Ulquiorra, and that's believable. Dekoshu talk contrib 19:09, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

The Espada are just another group of bad guys like bount, but theyre a focused part of the storyline then the bount, who were just in the filler. So as we have seen in the espada are by in large, skilled opponents, but lets not forget theyre all basically hollows, Shinigami are around to fight hollows and the arrancar are just more powerful hollows. I think you are to busy trying to compare the series to other stuff. This is bleach, entirely original so how fair is it to say Kubo is not doing what he supposed to or the right thing, when your reason for questioning what he is doing so is because they dont do it on some other series. Also Ichigo is not a captain of course he lost he doesnt have the power or experience to be that good, he had to work at, someone in a captains position shouldnt have to. Also im a female and i really dont know what you mean by sexist, where is that from. You shouldnt throw around words if you dont know in what context they should be used. i dont recall anyone even remotely saying anything about that. Your reasoning basically if a guy fights a girl and the girl loses then thats sexist. By what standard makes that sexist because with that logic if the girl wins thats sexist too. Sexism is when someone feels that one gender is inferior to the other. The only remotely sexist character on bleach is Nnorita. Hitsuguya happens to be a guy but where does it say he is gonna win cause he is a man, no it doesnt if he does it would be cause hes better. It has nothing to do with feelings it has to do with skill. You know the shinigami are the main characters of the series, if you dont like them and hope they lose all the time this might not be the series for you cause your not likely to see alot of that. YesMonarch 00:38, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Ah... Just wanted to mention...
I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, and if they have I'm sorry for reiterating, but Ulquiorra said that the top four Espada weren't allowed to release their zanpakuto within the confides of Las Noches walls... And numbers aside, even if it is one through ten or zero through nine, Yammy's new number would mean that he is in the top four, and thus would not be able to release where he does, which was clearly within Las Noches.

In addition, it would also mean that Ulquiorra would have had no reason to break through the roof and release outside like he did, because if it is zero through nine, he would not have been in the top four... And Ulquiorra hardly seems the type to take unnecessary actions.

I'm not sure what this would mean or if it is even a valid observation, but... I wanted to point it out.Emmi11 19:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

i dont think yammy is the strongest. hes probably trying to scare rukia and renji and chad. the dissapearing 1 is probly just a side effect of his release. as for halibel she will PWN toshiro since he got his ass handed to him by luppi who may not even be worthy of the espada title

Just A Side Of Looking Over 344.
The Espada are looking like a group of weaklings because Ichigo and the others are kicking butt. I don't really like Yammy. I would prefer ANYONE except for him to be given the 0 title. And It seems like the whole thing with his power, it looks like all for show. Also, I'm hoping Halibel wins, cause she's awesome. [Not that I don't like Toshiro]and it's time for an espada to kick and haul some serious butt. GO HALBIEL! Espada22 23:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Halibel hasn't even done anything but stand around and comment, we have barely seen her fight, how is she awesome. YesMonarch 00:38, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

halibel is cool i wish she was the primera. and she has big tits