Forum:Retsu Unohana

Why everyone thinks that Unohana has to be some super strong captain? I mean yeah she has highest stats after Genryusai and Aizen but as we have seen, stats doesn't mean anything really... For example Zaraki is weakest captain by stats but he has beaten Tousen quite easily even though Tousen used his Bankai. I just don't get it. Ergroilnin 20:29, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

If thats your way of thinking then the generals and aizen's power doesn't mean anything. People where becoming aware of her power by the information given by characters in the series, regardless of her not being known for combat. If you know anything about the series yoruichi even states zaraki is a special case and his power is great regardless of not knowing the name of his bankai as shown. Zaraki just doesnt have kido or shunpo to use. But that matters little because its a fan thing to add the stats up and all that. The fact is with whats shown tosens abilities couldnt take zaraki, if it was another captain who knows but the fact is being a captain means alot in the series they are first line of defense against any enemy of soul society. Unohana is the second oldest captain after the general and she is even older then ukitake and shunsui who are the two most powerful captains in this generation or those that came before and they even fear her. Not to mention so does the 11th division. She is obviously not some push over cause shes nice and gentle doctor.Salubri 20:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually Salubri sorry to say this but she's not the second oldest captain but second oldest soul in Soul Society/Sereitei after the general and Ukitake and Kyoraku are the oldest captains but it's just a technicality and other than that everything you mentioned is correct.--SalmanH 21:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to say but its been documented. chapter -108, page 13 Kyoruku officially calls her senpai meaning that she is older then both him and Ukitake. There is nothing that actually states them as being captains before her as they are only documented as being the first to graduate the academy and become captains. All four were the only original captains 100 years before the flashback 110 years in the past. Meaning the general having created the academy never went himself and therefore seeing as its insinuated that there where generals before yamamoto then it stands to reasons there were captains before as well. the general is the oldest in soul society followed by unohana. In both respects she is older then them as senpai mean older as well as mentor in terms of age and organization.Salubri 21:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Moot point as it's filler, but in episode 234, she did sneak up on them without them noticing. And Ukitake's sweating when he disapproves of her helping Mayuri (most likely coz he's scared) TomServo101 22:21, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

"Why everyone thinks that Unohana has to be some super strong captain? I mean yeah she has highest stats after Genryusai and Aizen but as we have seen, stats doesn't mean anything really... For example Zaraki is weakest captain by stats but he has beaten Tousen quite easily even though Tousen used his Bankai." - Look at their purely physical stats though. Offensive power, physical strength, and defense. Tousen is one of the weakest in melee combat, but far more powerful with kido (as show when he blew up Grimmjow's arm) and intelligence. Zaraki's one of the strongest in the physical areas. If Tousen fought differently and tried using speed and kido instead of his bankai and melee he would've likely done better. It just means you gotta look deeper in the stats than the raw totals. Looking at them, it looks like Soi Fon may be able to beat Hitsugaya at melee but loses at ranged, for example.

Unohana has high stats in almost everyone area though. Even her physical stats are almost as high as Kenpachi's!

Also, stats aside? She can make pretty much anyone back down.ZeroSD 00:27, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

About those stats we actually did have a conversation on it before, those things aren't completely reliable and none of us know the full extent of Unohana's, Ukitake's, Kyraku's, Aizen's and Yamamoto's abilities and I doubt the person who made them really knows either unless it was made by Kubo himself but why would he do something like that now take a look at Byakuya's he has 510 and Ukitake's is at 470 Yamamoto stated That power is unrivaled by anyone who came before you and everyone since. So it'd be better to continue this conversation without referring to the stats.--SalmanH 05:45, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

That one's pretty easy to explain. Ukitake has horrible physical strength due to his sickness. Equal offense, better defense, better kido, better intellect. In good health he'd beat Byakuya. Just don't worry about the totals, they're designed to be looked at stat by stat and fit just fine that way. (And yes, Kubo did make it).

Not that that's the be-all and end-all either. Some sword abilities wouldn't figure into the numbers too well, and total spiritual pressure's not really in either. But it's a nice guide. ZeroSD 07:29, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Something interesting to note is during the birth of Wonderweiss. Aizen stipulated that to awake (temporary) the Hogyoku, it is necessary to possess twice the power of a captain. Then if Aizen was able to awake it and following his stats (560 of 600), we can assume that it means that the average captain would have 300 of 600, but I saw no one with that kind of stats. Besides Lieutenants. Moreover, Zaraki and Hitsugaia can still improve because they're not complete yet. But it is sure that Unohana is the strongest captain of the remaining captains after Genryusai and Aizen (the bad guy of this story) if accepting the stats. But we don't know anything about the strength of Kyoraku combine with Ukitake. We can make a parallel with soccer teams, if we follow the teams' stats, we could say that the team A is stronger than the team B, but that won't reflect the result of the match. As seen with the fight between Hachi and Barragan, it is probable that Barragan had the better stats but he lost before a more clever opponent.Baronofash 13:35, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I completely agree with Baronofash even though she is suggested to be powerful there would be some fights that she just would not win, for example, Byakuya and Zommari, Byakuya would have never have won against Szayell Aporro, but Mayuri did simply because of his character/personality so it shows that /unohana may be old and powerful but against certain opponents she may be no match....although personally a fight between her and Yammy would be long awaited and actually rather enjoyable...especially if she is as powerful as we are speculating and due to Yammy only technically having raw power with his aspect of death being wrath the fight could be potentially amazing and could sway to Retsu's favour? Thoughts?.... Sanbuntaicho 00:17, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I remember the episode where Aizen (560) submitted completely Grimmjow with only his reiatsu, then if we accept the stats, then it is sure to admit that Unohana (540) would had no problem to submit all Espadas under Noitra (5th), plus she is a medical and kido master, meaning she doesn't need to use her sword. Zommari was no match against Byakuya's kido, and Apollo was no match against Mayuri's poison. Then if we see the fights from the beginning, all antagonists fought their mirrored power: scientist (Mayuri against Apollo), fight lover (Zaraki against Noitra), Instinct power (Ichigo against Grimmjow), dark power (Ichigo hollow form against Ulquiorra), and so on...Baronofash 00:46, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I bet Byakuya still could've beaten Szayell as handily as he did Zommari, just through different means. Probably blitzing him at the start of the fight, or stealing the vodoo dolls, or hit him with a variety of attacks fast enough he can't analyze and counter them all. It probably wouldn't have been as awesome as the mad-scientist-faceoff, though. There is a reason Szayell was the second lowest Espada, he wasn't as tough or skilled or fast, if he doesn't have a good read on someone's abilities he can be in trouble, and even that can be somewhat overwhelmed by brute force (like when Renji managed a point blank kido).

Unohana vs Yammy... he's rage, while she's one of the most collected captains of all. She's experienced and powerful, but his raw might is massive. Instead of being like vs like, it'd be a juxtoposition. I'd look forward to that one. ZeroSD 03:16, 30 August 2009 (UTC)