Talk:Isshin Kurosaki/Archive 2

Power
Reopening the floor on something. In the explanation of Isshin's abilities, it says that he sent Aizen through those buildings using the physical strength of flicking his finger alone. This doesn't make any sense, which is why a lot of people assume it was Kido. Looking through the archives, I know that this was ruled to be "speculation." However, attributing it to physical strength is just as speculative. My proposal: Since it's probably mentioned elsewhere in the article, why not just remove it from the explanation of Isshin's abilities entirely, until the anime finally clarifies what happened?Neo Bahamut (talk) 08:57, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

There is no reason to reopen this topic either its one or the other, no one can prove its Kido remotely hence why its more than speculative to state that. Its an explanation of skill and ability hence why its featured in the powers and abilities section where it has every right to remain. This point is not based on personal preference but what is known and or shown. Unless there is evidence to support another view it is to viewed a simple combat moved just as any other melee feat would be. --Salubri (Talk)  12:40, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Can it be proven as melee? Why are Aizen's barriers in the Kido section? They aren't stated as being Kido. You can't prove it. So, why are they there? Because they're obviously Kido! It is obvious from the artwork, completely independent of ever being stated, that those techniques are Kido. If that is an acceptable standard of proof, then people have given evidencee before. Maybe it's not personal preference, but it's unwarranted preference. It's holding one side of a debate to a standard of proof while assuming the other side as the default. The fact is, if that stays in there, & it's wrong, it is misinformation, so it really doesn't have a right to be there. No information is better than incorrect information. Really, if one wants to avoid unproven assumptions, one has no logical recourse but to tell it like it is: It is an attack of an unknown type. That is what is known. That is what is shown.Neo Bahamut (talk) 13:11, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

The very fact that you would place barriers in this is a point enough to not reopen this conversation. Your obviously bringing your personal view into the conversation rather then the realities of the series. Barriers are kido that goes without saying whatever way you wanna twist it, thats a reality of the series material. This is a nonissue that will not change as he is clearly engaged in physical combat. All one has to do is look at the chapter to see that hence why its referenced so therefore theres your answer. We arent getting into an argument about this and unless you have actual source material that states that the information shouldn't be there or that it should be placed elsewhere then the conversation on this is done. Read the policies of the sight and learn that we only go by what is shown and stated, you dont get to make points about the information because you dont agree with them personally if there is an issue that is clearly shown in the material. If you have issue with it and a lack of anything other then your own opinion about how things should be done then talk about it in the forum because officially this issue is closed. Salubri (Talk)  13:59, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Flash Steps abillities
Why is Isshin stated only as a Flash Step Expert and not a Master? The fact that he was able keep up with Aizen during thier fight should that they are at least on the same level. Ichigo was completly outmaneuvered by Aizen's normal speed even with his Bankai-Hollow mask speed increase while Isshin was going toe-to-toe with Aizen. Any thoughts? Darksusanoo (talk) 23:31, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Why would you be under the impression they were fighting using flash steps. If that was the case we wouldn't have seen the fight. The movements where just as general as any fight. Flash Steps weren't really a factor in that fight as most fights dont use constant flash steps, there are a few here and there unless your Soifon and Yoruichi. Also In the fight with Ichigo, ichigo wasn't using flash steps at that high of a level as some people seem to think he knows only the basic flash step movements, he using hyper speed combat which is not something the equals to the same thing as flash steps. --Salubri (Talk)  00:27, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Loss of Shinigami powers
From what i have read in issue 420 about Ichigos final getsuga tenshou could explain Ishins loss of shinigami powers prior to the events of the story. As Ichigo appears to have a similar zanpakutou to his father would suggest that Isshin could have also had access to a final getsuga tenshou which resulted in the loss of his powers. This is just a theory to try and explain some of Isshins backstory however so its not canon but i think it should be considered until it is explained in the manga. Yojimbo and diagoro (talk) 22:33, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

NO! We do not speculate on articles. We will not place that on the article until such a time as that is said to be true--God (Pray)  22:37, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Isshins shikai
ok we saw him uses his getsuga tenshou on aizen so my question is why does his zanpakutou say its form is unknown because he couldnt have used it in sealed state so i think it should be changed-FLAMESWORD300

Yeah, we saw him use Getsuga but we did not see what it looked like. The picture was not clear at all as to what it looked like.--God (Pray)  01:34, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Just to be clear, we aren't changing it just because of what you think. Secondly not all zanpakuto change form in shikai. --Salubri (Talk)  02:06, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Replace the manga picture?
What do you think? Can I use this one since it is from the anime, and is in color? Ltjuno (talk) 21:06, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Same thing for the one on Ichigo's page too. Ltjuno (talk) 21:06, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

Isshin Finger Flick
I have noticed that people are still arguing about the nature of the finger flick, so I thought that maybe a gif will help highlight the technique better and give people context and support our argument that the finger flick is a physical attack (air pressure manipulation as far as I can tell). Anyway, here is the gif, use it if you guys like! Tinni  (Talk)  11:44, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Looks good, it is obviously physical. The lines int he air that people claim to be kidō are just showing force and air movements.--God (Pray)  16:40, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

Which is why the conversation wont be opened again, there is no point. The same amount of air force seen in this gif is in the physical attacks Yamamoto uses against Wonderweiss. There just isn't any bases to say its Kido. --Salubri (Talk)  17:02, November 14, 2010 (UTC)

I think it was brought up because the anime finally cleared away all the confusion on the finger flick. Because up until then no one simply finger flicked an opponent through a building. I've seen plenty of people acuse it of kidou and that picture finally gives the definitive proof that it was physical strength alone. That and it is kinda hard to compare a finger flick with Yamamoto's punches. Darthwin (talk) 22:32, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Bankai
I know it hasn't been revealed yet. But can we at least reasonably speculate on its abilities? We know for a fact that he knows how to use Final Getsuga Tensho since he told Ichigo about it in the first place. And we can also probably assume that it has an enhanced Getsuga Tensho since his shikai has the same ability as Ichigo's.--Black kille (talk) 06:13, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

We do not speculate on articles, ever. Please read our Bleach Wiki:Speculation Policy--<font color="#660066" face="Verdana">God <font color="#660066" face="Verdana">(Pray)  06:27, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

In that case allow me to ask a different question. Would it be speculative to say that Isshin's Bankai's abilities include enhanced Getsuga Tensho and Final Getsuga Tensho? (especially the latter)--Black kille (talk) 08:40, December 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Umm... I am not sure where this is going. His Zanpakuto ability is Getsuga, so it is reasonable to assume that Isshin's Zanpakuto is capable of performing ALL forms of Getsuga Tenso but we cannot add them to his article until he uses them. Because until he uses them, we can only speculate that he can use them. We don't know for certain. Tinni   (Talk)  08:49, December 23, 2010 (UTC)

Saying anything on Isshin's Bankai is speculation. I am closing this discussion because of that.

Possible Trivia
Someone recently edited this page saying you could see the squad 11 division symbol on Isshin's haori in the newest episode, but it was removed. I watched the episode, waiting for the scene, and found it like he said. This probably shouldn't be in the actual article, but it sounds like it could be a good trivia point.CJett92 (talk) 21:30, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

I am iffy about it. We don't want people assuming that Isshin was the captain of squad 11. If it is made very clear that it was a non canon filler episode I think it would be all right.--<font color="#660066" face="Verdana">God <font color="#660066" face="Verdana">(Pray)  21:49, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

Haven't seen the episode yet, but judging by that picture, it is not the 11th Division's emblem, at least not done properly. For a start I think the division number (if that is what it is) is at an angle compared to the Gotei 13 emblem it is contained in, which it should not be. Also, the single horizontal stroke in the 11 kanji should be at the bottom of the Gotei 13 emblem (closest to the pattern at the base of the haori) but here it is at the top and is diagonal, not horizontal. I don't know if there is a proper 11th Div symbol shown elsewhere in the episode, but based on that picture alone, it is either saying something else (with similar kanji) or is a botch version of the emblem. 22:01, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I will put it in the translation corner and see if Adam can figure out if it is just botched if it means somethign different.--<font color="#660066" face="Verdana">God <font color="#660066" face="Verdana">(Pray)  22:04, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

Cazcappy (the guy who originally edited the page) told me about another seen where it's visible that I completely missed before. It's on the left, and it's now clear that it's not a division symbol. It appears to just be an X, most likely due to us not knowing Isshin's past yet, but I don't know if it's an a Kanji or not. CJett92 (talk) 22:59, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

i was looking at some kanji after i saw issins haori and i found it 父it means 'Father" Hlp922 (talk) 23:27, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Hlp922! Mystery solved, Isshin's squad has not been divulged. Nothing to discuss further. Tinni  (Talk)  23:37, January 11, 2011 (UTC)

Bankai 2
How do we know he has Bankai? Was it ever confirmed? --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk  22:14, September 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * The stance of this wiki is that all captain level fighters are listed as having bankai until proven otherwise.--

Isshin's Durability?
Shouldn't it be mentioned that he quickly recovered after and regained consciousness after battling chrylsalis Aizen?

Previous Occupation Change
Would it make any sense to create a "Previous Occupation" section for Isshin at the top of the page and write something along the lines of "Captain of the 13 Court Guard Squads" or "Captain of an unspecified Squad," or should this kind of change wait until it is mentioned what squad he was a part of (when and/or if that is ever mentioned)?Schiffy (talk) 10:45, April 3, 2012 (UTC)Schiffy


 * I think that is best left until it is actually revealed. 11:49, April 3, 2012 (UTC)

Getsuga Tenshō
Getsuga Tenshō is listed as a part of Engetsu's shikai ability, although we have yet to see the released form of Engetsu or him using it in that form it should moved to above his shikai like Rōjūrō's Arpeggio technique. And also because it's just him using gathered spiritual energy and releasing it as a slash rather than Ichigo or Kugo's version appears as crescent moon rather than a straight slash of energy. --Jigsaw Billy (talk) 18:03, June 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * This has already been discussed. The Getsuga Tensho is a Shikai technique. There is no evidence to state that the technique can be used outside of Shikai. People assume he did not release while using it because his sword did not look different but we have seen several swords that do not look different in shikai than they did unreleased.--

What is Isshin's Rank
What is Isshin's Rank. I personally think he is a captian. This is because attached to his shinigami Robes is a captians Robe. Also because in his battle with Grand Fisher, Isshin mentions that Grand Fisher shouldn't judge his power based on the size of his zanpakuto. He says that when a shinigami reaches the rank of captian they can control to size of they're zanpakuto, otherwise they would all b swinging around swords the size of skyscrappers.

--EngetsugaTensho (talk) 19:02, July 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * Isshin states he is Captain class, not a captain. There is a difference. Isshin's history is completely unknown and until such a time as his history is revealed, we will not be speculating.--

Ok but that is a very good point --EngetsugaTensho (talk) 19:13, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Isshin is a Captain, as stated in Chapter 528, Division is unknown at this point. Sicarius001 (talk) 11:28, February 27, 2013 (UTC)