Talk:Ulquiorra Cifer

Pronunciation
I was always wondering, how do I pronounce Ulquiorra's name? Is it "Ool-kwi-oh-ra"? Or should I pronounce it similar to the Japanese way, "Ool-ki-oh-ra"? That is, does that "qui" in his name sound like "kwi" or "key"? :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 14:09, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It sould be pronounced ool-kee-or-ah, as "qui" is pronounced "key" in Spanish (like "que" is "kay"). LapisScarab 04:35, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Not sure if it'll stick in the official dub of the Anime, but in the English Bleach: Shattered Blade game, his name is pronounces as "ool-kwee-or-ah". I'm not sure what they were thinking at the time. They might correct it when the English dub hits the Arrancar arc, but nothing for sure as of yet. Arrancar109 05:46, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you. In that case I should follow the more Spanish pronunciation. :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 12:16, 7 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Two assumptions
Under the Segunda Etapa section there are two abilities listed, Overwhelming spirit power and Instantaneous Cero Oscuras, that I think should not be put in. There's no reason the overwhelming spiritual pressure couldn't apply to the first form as well, and the only reason one might think it doesn't is because Uryu said it when he was in second stage. But that's only because Uryu was just arriving, so it's a possibly false assumption to say it's exclusive to Ulquiorra's second form, and shouldn't be listed as such. Also, the Instantaneous Cero osc. is not really valid as a segunda etapa ability, simply because in one panel we see it charging up, and the next shot we see of Ulquiorra and Ichigo, it's been fired. Since they're still images though, that says nothing about how long it takes the move to charge up, so it's unjustified to say it's instantaneous, especially since it's drawn the exact same way (charging up in one panel, firing right after) in ch. 346. That one I'll change on my own, I suppose.

The "Overwhelming Spirit Power" one is quite legit. No sign is given to suggest that his Segunda Etapa is just as powerful as his first form - Uryu only senses it after he transformed. And it wasn't because he was "only just arriving" - he was still making his way up to the top of Las Noches' dome.

I do however, agree with you about the "Instantaneous" Cero Oscuras. I was the one that edited it to its current state, thinking that Ulquiorra had performed it without charging it. Looking back, he did indeed charge it, and nothing in the manga suggests that it was fired any faster than when he used it in his first form. Everything could be simplified as his original powers being greatly enhanced. Mohrpheus 14:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Since you put that one there, I'll leave it to you to edit it as you see fit. Xagzan 30 May 2009


 * Resolved

Age
In the article it says that Ulquiorra appears to be among the youngest of the espada, but Lilinette has stated to Ukitake that appearance doesn't equate to age in hollows. Seems a little misleading given the new info. Mr Gray 02:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree. The ages of Arrancar cannot be based on appearence alone, as this case suggests, so telling the youngest from the oldest is a challenge. From what we've seen, it looks like Wonderweiss Margera is the youngest of all the Arrancar, but this again could prove untrue, as the creation of new ones could've occured. So telling the age of an Arrancar could only be decifered if their original Arrancar number (Ex: Shawlong was Arrancar #11) was revealed. Hopefully Tite Kubo will reveal some more of the original numbers so a proper theory can be obtained. HuecoMuffin 20:03, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Quotes
Could someone make a section for his quotes? I would do it myself, but I'm new to this, so I'm asking all you professionals out there for assistance. Thank you.

-It seems to me like there's waaaay too many quotes in that section now- out of context, a lot of them probably don't need to be there. It's like isting every other thing he's said. Gendokihou 12:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree. There are WAY too many quotes in the section, some of which are completely insignificant. "Lanza del Relampago," for instance. The quote section should only have quotes that reflect Ulquiorra's personality, such as his opinions regarding the heart. "Long time no see, shinigami" fails in that matter. Mohrpheus 14:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Master Swordsman?
Ichigo has been recently ranked a master swordsman, Ulquiorra outdone him and nearly sliced his head off. Moreover Ulquiorra holds some sort of sword upon releasing using it to easily wreak Ichigo's mask and swinging it proficiently. If we don't consider him a master swordsman given these facts we will have to remove this status from Ichigo aswell. World Master 12:23, 23 March 2009

As for his name, you can pronounce it as you'll-key-aura to be simple about it. I don't think Ulquiorra qualifies as a Master Swordsman. This seems to be something that is being stuck onto every powerful character without any regard for if it is actually true. Think about how Ulquiorra fights, Ichigo himself said that "Its just like hes fighting with his hands, just with more reach". This seems to indicate Ulquiorra is far from a Master swordsmen, even if he is powerful, as he fights the exact same way with his hands as with his sword, relying completely on thrusts and wielding it with only one hand, a manner similar to Zaraki -Who does have the excuse of knowing Kendo and being a truly skilled swordsman, but prefers to hold back- I would go as far as to Say that Ulquiorra's skills with a sword might be Sub par, simply from lack of use. I wouldn't call someone who fought with a sword (A Bladed weapon) the same way as if he was using his hands (A Blunt Weapon) a Master Swordsman. The World Platinum 05:57, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

It's fairly obvious that Ulquiorra's hands are not blunt force weapons, after all he did pierce Ichigo's chest, also the fact Ichigo claims the sword is just longer reach implies that Ulquiorra is using the weapon as an extention of his body, therefore must be quite skilledArieus 04:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I believe the idea of him piercing Ichigo's chest relates more to his Super Strength then his mastery of a Bladed weapon. Your fingernails or your extended hand are not piercing weapons, if you hit someone like that, its not magically going to go through their skin, your hand is either going to snap upwards and possibly break, or snap down and your making a half-fist, so why should an Arrancar's fist, which is physically similar to a Human's, be a Piercing Weapon? I don't see Ichigo's comment that it is just longer reach as any basis on calling him a Master Swordsman, It seems to me, that Ichigo was just saying that he is fighting the exact same way as if he didn't even have his sword. The World Platinum 17:37, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

I agree w/ The World Platinum. Ulquiorra is very strong physically, which covers his attacks using a sword. If anything he is a highly skilled hand-to-hand combatant, only using his zanpakuto when he fights someone particularly strong or dangerous. I think he uses his sword only to block an opponent's sword, because it gives him the chance to fire a cero. Most of his moves only blocked Ichigo's Tensa Zangetsu.--Renji Abarai 19:59, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Renji makes a good point, Ulquiorra is possibly the strongest Physical person we have seen in the Manga, and even if he isn't the strongest, he is still extremely physicaly strong. This would mean, that he doesn't use his sword a lot, which would mean that his skills would get rusty, because he hasn't been practicing like he should. His use of his sword agianst Ichigo is just about Purely defensive, he relies on it to block Ichigo's sword, but then fires a Cero at him. I believe we should change that particular part of his Powers, either remove it or change it from "Master" to "Skilled". Lately I have noticed that every character who is introduced that is decently powerful has "Master Swordsmen" stuck on his Profile without any evidence for it, which goes agianst the Wiki's purpose of not providing Speculation, but information. The World Platinum 15:25, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * While Ulquiorra being physically strong is true, we have to remember Yoruichi. Her flashcry is an ability used for hand to hand combat, and seems to be extremely powerful and unstable, and her physical strength is probably greater than Kisuke's, which is pretty strong.  She's also quite possible older than Ulquiorra, who is supposedly one of the younger espada.  The only reason she was injured by Yammy's skin was because she wasn't expecting his hierro to be that strong, and even so she showed no sign of pain when beating him up.  She's also most likely the fastest character in Bleach, even though Ichigo apparently comes fairly close.  This makes me wonder though, because when Ulquiorra releases, Ichigo is much slower.  If Ichigo's inner hollow doesn't come back to save Ichigo from death, I'm hoping Yoruichi will, because her and Ulquiorra seem pretty similar.  --Utae
 * Uh, what does that have to do with Ulquiorra's Swordsmanship skills?The World Platinum 00:24, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree that Ulquiorra seems to rely on his hand-to-hand skills. Sorry for a theoretical, but I'd argue that Ulquiorra isn't used to combat using a sword, since we see no semblance of a sword in his segunda etapa, which could be his original form. This would explain his near exclusive use of his hands during combat. But of course a problem with that is that Aizen would've had to see him in this form to recruit him into the espada, sealing his power within a zanpakuto during shinigamification, and he said it himself that Aizen didn't see that form, but that's a whole 'nother ball game. Mr Gray 02:32, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Umm... Mr.Gray? When Ulquiorra releases he's able to create swords out of energy. What the hell are you talking about?


 * Note the date I made that post. It was before we saw his lanza del relampago in the manga, and I was speaking of his second form.  As new information came out, it's obvious that I had it wrong.  Looking back it was a bit boneheaded of me to say, but hey, I was new.Mr Gray 23:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Also I agree with Platinum. Ulquiorra isn't very efficient with swords. He's just outstandingly strong :D FlamingDogs 11:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Ulquiorra might not use his sword that often or even use techniques with his sword but he says he only uses his sword on people he thinks are worthy enough, so that must mean something, and he uses it quite well with just one hand, overall he may not be a master swordsman but he is damn good with a sword. Boogerbaloozoo 9:31, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Tozase?
If what I know in Japanese is correct, the verb "tozasu" (whose imperative form is "tozase") means "to close" or "to lock" rather than "to bind." Are the scanlations completely reliable? :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 16:13, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The problem is that, as far as I looked for, the 3 are available on different spoils/fanscan... :/
 * (?) ...Maybe we should include all three translations keeping Bind as the "official" one but including Close and Lock as "often translated" until the official translation come out Maul day 18:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


 * According to jisho.org's Japanese dictionary, "tozasu" means shut, close, lock, or fasten. But the kanji used (and given the reading "toza") is normally read as "kusari", or chain in English.  So the translation for the command should be "enchain".  The only translator of note to read it that way is "cnet" whose translation is available on . Big red01027 04:48, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Segunda Etapa
Before any one starts with the edits and reverts, it is call segunda etapa not segunda espada as most of you probably saw from the escanlations the kanji for etapa is ェタパ while the one for espada is エスパーダ. Hope this answers any questions anyone may have WhiteStrike 07:38, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I was searching for the kanji to prove that the correct translation is Etapa, not Espada, (thanks WhiteStrike). Guys, Onemanga doesn't offer us the right translation EVERYTIME, specially when chapters just come out. Don't take for granted that whatever you seen in Onemanga is actually the official translation, the current scanlation is the speed one, that means that some parts could be wrong. Maul day 07:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Resolved

Ulquiorra's appearance
hey, I'm new here and stuff, but I'd like to point out that during Ulquiorra's second release, or arrancar's version of a bankai (i froget how to spell it), that along with his tear tracks becoming wider, there are two additional lines added on. I noticed this whilst re-reading the manga, and I noticed that along with one of the tear tracks, there was a thinner, smaller, less noticable line running right along side the main one, and this applies for both eyes. If your confused then go look on mangafox (that's where I go to read the new manga) and look at chapter 348, page 10, and you can see it under one of his eyes, but I think there was another panel somewhere, where it showed both eyes...okay, and on pg 11, you get a better look at it. Just pointing this out 'cuz no one seemed to notice.
 * Nice catch, Kendai. In the future make sure to sign your post (just put 4 tildes ~ after your name). Mr Gray 03:23, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Resolved

Cifer?
Got this from the most recent Bleach volume. Stats for Ulquiorra. It seems to me that Kubo decided his last name would be spelled Cifer. I would think we should change it to match his desire. http://i39.tinypic.com/25yxgko.jpg RecklessFire 00:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I have seen the scans an yes while it has been belived for a long time that his last name was Schiffer (spelling of his name came from the offical site for Bleach: The 3rd Phantom http://bleach.sega.jp/3rd/charactor.html . Grimmjow name that was also released should be changed as well the manga takes presendence and while some people will be confused by the change proper references will be anotated. WhiteStrike 09:54, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

i'd give a reference but i don't know how. that's the english name the author gave him why don't you understand. that's his name why would you want to give false info?--Kisukeiscool100396 15:14, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

How can that not be enough for you? The author himself spelled it out in clear English in the latest Bleach volume. Why would you doubt series stats/facts from the author himself? What's more is that "Cifer" fits Ulquiorra much better than Schiffer". Look at Ulquiorra's releases...a fallen angel and then a devil. "Lu-CIFER-". Get it? This is no different from everybody thinking Grimmjow's surname was Jaggerjack, when it turned out to be Jaegerjacquez.

He says his name as Schiffer. Aizen says it as Schiffer. It' supposed to be Schiffer. They can say Sch sounds. So change it back.

Lucifer in Japanese is ルシファー Rushifaa. Take away ル ru and you are left with シファー shifaa, which is indeed how Kubo writes Ulquiorra's surname in katakana. I now think the Cifer spelling makes more sense and should be left that way. Rabukurafuto 17:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Alright, now that I think about it, "Cifer" does sound pretty good. I'll be taking down my old post about it. -Malzzel 20:00, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I kind of think "Schiffer" sounds better, not only because of Father Schiffer (you know, the Hiroshima guy?) and "Schiffer" has a good meaning and all. That's just my opinion. --KamekoSuzume 19:52, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think that whether or not a name sounds/looks cool matters here. Like others have said, Ulquiorra's name was written in plain english by the author as "Cifer." I don't see any reason why this is even debate-able. Mohrpheus 19:56, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Admin Message
I Would like to remind you that Talk Pages are not forums to disscuss your personal feeling about a Character or a Page in specific they are meant to help discuss ways into improving articles. While we appriciate your comments please keep in mind that they are many forums out there for which comversations such as the one above are more appropiate. Once again we thank you for your edits an appreciate the way you help improve all of our wiki. WhiteStrike 22:23, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Voice Actor
I dunno where you got that Steve Blum voices him, considering Ulquiorra is uncredited in the game, but it's obviously NOT Steve Blum. You can hear his voice clearly here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWI-tioMsKs

You can especially tell by his grunts, and his crystal-clear ultimate attack speech. It ain't Blum. Lordshmeckie 01:31, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

That IS him. D: Listen to Vincent's or Spike Spigel's voice. Kaihedgie 01:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, and they're nothing alike. In fact, Ulquiorra's VA seems to be whoever played Noba in the Bount Arc. As for Blum, his voice is actually slightly more nasally than Ulq's (not that Blum has a very nasal speaking voice). Blum acting in the tone of Ulquiorra's speech would sound more like his Jack from MadWorld, which isn't even close to this. Steve Blum isn't the only VA out there who does low-key, stoic roles... The biggest problem with this is that Blum is popular, and known for roles like these. People tend to want it to be Blum, almost pretending it is him.Lordshmeckie 02:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Ugh, this crap again. I'm inclined to lean towards it being Blum. I actually do believe that. BUT this is Shattered Blade we're talking about. And as such, it doesn't necessarily mean that whoever played Ulquiorra is gonna reprise the role, Blum or Smith. And I highly doubt it's gonna be Smith, since he did Noba. They'd sound TOO alike. Besides, Smith is Shinji, so I think 1 significant role is enough for him. Either way though, we're gonna wait until Ulquiorra appears in the dub anime before we write down who voices him. Besides, nobody can prove it's Smith (and likely can't prove it to be Blum either). And I don't fully trust Anime News Network (which is one of the prime sources of this speculation), since they've gotten errors in the past. Besides, they also have Scott McNeil as Grimmjow, and McNeil isn't even a part of the same group as Bleach's voice actors. Arrancar109 02:51, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

well wikipedia says steve blum sometimes uses fake names and roger smith was one of them (here is some proof )--Kisukeiscool100396 01:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Isn't his last name spelled schiffer?
I'm pretty sure his last name is spelled incorrectly on this website. I believe it is schiffer. Can someone check this?
 * His last name was orriginally Schiffer but as of the latest volume Fear for Fight the author speeled it in English as Cifer. Also make sure you sing your comments using ~ . WhiteStrike 00:08, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

No Blum for the English dub
I'm redirecting this to Forum:Dub voices. This would probably be a good thing to keep in the future, given the numerous roles that'll be coming up. Arrancar109 06:15, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I thought I read on this wiki that Blum was slated to voice Ulquiorra, but I just saw his intro episode on Adult Swim and it deffinitely wasn't him. And then I read this post. Where did that information come from anyway? Darth Havoc 06:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if it said he was slated, but it was a very common belief, since a lot of actors reprise their roles. Granted, it doesn't always happen, but it does sometimes, and a lot of people like Blum enough to embrace that belief. Arrancar109 06:27, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Resolved

Age: Deceased?
Is there any point in having that on the infobox? Ages have never been mentioned in Bleach, we can only especulate about some shinigamis, but Arrancars are out of the question. Besides, "deceased" is not age, but status. Lia Schiffer 02:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Techincally, you're correct. But only one user was filling those boxes as "deceased", and I don't think it goes in the age portion of the infobox. Why he felt the need to do it, I don't know, but I didn't see the point. Arrancar109 03:36, 9 May 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. I just wasn't sure if I should've deleted it or not. Lia Schiffer 03:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Resolved

New main picture?
There are some nice new pictures of Ulquiorra from episodes 215 - 216 I think would be a good replacement for the one up now. I know on some Wikis the main image is something people vote on, so I didn't want to change it without at least asking. --Henhouse 04:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is nothing wrong with the current picture. It shows his Hollow hole, Espada number and upperbody nothing more can be ask from it. WhiteStrike 14:13, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Henhouse on this issue. I can't quite put my finger on it exactly, but something about this image doesn't seem to fit as well as others. I have no problem with images that reveal this amount of the torso and agree that it demonstrates alot, but I feel that this may be better placed within his appearence while another suitable picture replaces it. I've found numerous HQ images that could take its place but I guess it all comes down to individual opinion in the end. Blackstar1 19:46, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Resolved

Wait, why is that the main image for Ulquiorra not only shows half his torso but his Espada tattoo along with it? All of the other Espada have mugshots for main images in their articles which precedes before their Espada tattoo which is usually displayed in the appearance/outline section so why should it be different for Ulquiorra? Kaihedgie 02:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently, changing mugshots with low-quality full body pictures is becoming a trend, even to the point of being unilaterally enforced by the sysops, as was done at Byakuya's article. The Seaweed Ambassador 19:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Past Tense
Ulquiorra is now dead. Here is proof. Shouldn't everything be moved to past tense? SEALBoy 02:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * [Out-topic, it's true that he won't come back, it's not a shonen...Oh wait.]

I don't think speculative returns from the dead should be entertained, even if it is a shonen. The fact is that he is CURRENTLY dead, and the article should be changed to reflect this fact. Besides, they say if you don't see a body in shonen, their not dead. While it may be true that there is no body per se in this case, there is a clear picture of this upper torso disintegrating, as well as the characters own admission that he would not survive this. SEALBoy 19:40, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Sir, you surely didn't get the "off topic" thing. Plus, okay, you say he is dead because he turned to ashes, I say that might be some kind of Arrancar stuff, who is right ? We don't know, you're also speculating ;). That wiki is using a kind of "wierd" wikifycation, since we are using present tense instead of past tense.

Uh... no. Any character who is alive by the start of Bleach has his/her profile written in present tense under the Synopsis sections. Only History sections are written in past tense at all, since it happens before the start of the Bleach storyline, even if they die later in the story. Arrancar109 19:45, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Resolved

Automated transfer of Problem Report #21947
The following message was left by Ursuss32 via PR #21947 on 2009-05-09 04:03:08 UTC

it never mentions that ulquiorra is the espada of nihilsm
 * Resolved

Beta appearance
Thought I should point this out. When Ulquiorra first appeared in the manga, his appearance was slightly different. His mask was a tad bit longer and it was broken, his hair was shorter, the uniform had no black borders and he had thinner eyelashes.

Reference here: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/190/19/ Kaihedgie 02:03, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Hollow hole movement
Perhaps his hole was moved because of the 'stabbing where the hole is' thing? Coz I don't think Ichigo would have survived being stabbed in the neck, so when Tite thought of it, he moved the hole? Blade Titan X 07:44, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm trying to replace the info box image. But I don't know how? BTW: Can you tell me how to or could someone else replace it?

This is the pic:

I think so, in the first Ulquiorra's appearance in the anime, his hollow hole is in his neck, but later, it is near his chest.

Trivia
The trivia says that Zommari and Ulquiorra are the only two Espada who have had none of their history revealed, but what history have we seen of Barragan, Harribel, Starrk, Yammy, and Luppi? Unless I'm just drawing a massive blank, I don't think we've been told anything about any of them that can really be constituted as part of their past/history. Twocents 07:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Since no one said anything, I removed it due to its inaccuracy. Twocents 17:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
 * RESOLVED

Trivia - Relevance
"His first Resurrección is more humanoid than his second Resurrección."

While technically true, I question its relevance in bothering to list it at all. Could someone please explain to me why it's so important that it's listed separately in the trivia? If not, I think it should probably be removed, since anyone can compare the two pictures shown earlier on the page of his Resurrección and draw that conclusion for themselves. Twocents 22:42, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

As no one disagreed, it has been removed. Twocents 02:22, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * RESOLVED

Before anbody changes Cuatro to Cuarta
Listen here ---> in this vid he says "Cuatro Espada" so please stop changing it to Cuarta--Kisukeiscool100396 13:27, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

Nelliel and Ulquiorra
"It is possible that Ulquiorra has been an Espada, or at least well known, during Nelliel's time as the third Espada, due to the fact that she seemed to remember his name."

Can I get a reference for this, please? I can't seem to locate it in the manga. Furthermore, I've been pondering it, and if the trivia is there simply because she is able to recognize him, then this trivia should be added to Grimmjow's page as well, because she does clearly identify Grimmjow (happens when he brings Orihime to heal Ichigo after Ichigo's battle with Ulquiorra).

Personally, I think it's a little assuming, as it could be argued that just by living in Hueco Mundo, of course she'd be familiar with Aizen and the most famous of his followers - the Espada. When she first meets Ichigo, she knows quite about what the Numeros are (onemanga, chapter 246, page 10) and knows about Lunuganga and his abilities. Twocents 02:22, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

We have to remember that Grimmjow has been confirmed as Arrancar # 12 making him the second oldest known Arrancar. Plus he & Ulquiorra have a serious rivalry with eachother eventhough Ulquiorra is a higher rank then Grimmjow. I would also like to state that Aizen seems to give Ulquiorra many greater responsobilities then the other Espada. So I think its safe to say that Grimmjow & Ulquiorra were both Espada when Nel was. Still all of this can only be assumed since Ulquiorras # & backstory have never been mentioned. Minato88 00:44, September 30, 2009 (UTC)