Talk:Kaname Tōsen/Archive 3

Ambidextrous
I think he is ambidextrous along with Kyouraku and Lisa, because he wileded his sowrd in his left hand whne he wanted to slice off Shinji head. 19:14, Sept 6, 2010 (UTC) Domynyk

Sonido - Episode 290
I think that now we can actually say that Kaname has used Sonido this time. He used it multiple time in episode 290 and there was the clear and distinct booming/static sounds that Sonido makes. In my personal opinion he should be labeled as Sonido Expert (atleast), if the admins decide that is indeed what he used. (BTW, I made this new section because the other had been closed and I didn't want to put anything in there to get it deleted as fast as I put it up. Sorry if I wasn't supposed to make another one but just had to get this out.) Thanks. Klross (talk) 12:11, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Well, as I said before, if it does indeed have that distinct sound (which has remained consistent across the series thus far), then I don't think there should be any problem with putting it in, so long as the anime reference is put in. I'd wait until more people who have seen the episode comment, since nobody else seemed to hear the sound the last time you brought this up. Mohrpheus (talk) 13:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

This is actually the first time I brought this up and I was planning to wait until more people saw the episode and commented. That is the reason I didn't change anything on Kaname's page. Thanks Klross (talk) 13:36, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just finished the episode and that is indeed the sound used for Sonido. I think it would be appropriate to add that into the page, as he appeared to be quite proficient with it; enough so to shock Komamura with his speed. ---Ten Tailed Fox talk page 18:05, September 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Having watched it, I think it is clear that it is Sonido that he is using. I think it should be added to the article but it would definitely need an anime reference.--God (Pray)  18:13, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Manj brought it up before. Tosen was faster then expected but that doesn't mean its sonido. In addition, I am pretty certain that the so called "Sonido" sound effect was also used for Aizen in episode 283. Remembering back to the manga, "they used sonido" came up during this time to prove that Aizen, Gin and Tosen were all Vizards (hey, even I feel for that one) based on SPX and fast-movement lines. However, in the manga, the SPX and fast-movement lines were used even during flashback of the Barragan incident and most people would speak with some certainly that Aizen, Tosen and Gin were not Vizards when the recruited Barragan. Indeed, if you go back to episode 281, you'll hear that so called Sonido SPX when Aizen, Gin and Tosen arrive in Las Noches. So again, I object to SPX being used as evidence for sonido, when that SPX has been used for Aizen when he approached Harribel and during the flashback for Barragan. If we exclude the SPX, what do we have but Tosen being faster then usual. Which would be possible with just donning his mask and getting a power boost. So I am unconvinced. Tinni  (Talk)  18:52, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I went back and took a look and the sfx of Tosen's movement, Sonido and Aizen's movement is all very similar, I cannot tell if they are all identical but it is too close to tell. We cannot confirm that Tosen used Sonido--God (Pray)  19:07, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ouch. All well then. The only conclusive way to tell would be to check the Japanese onomatopoeia of his high-speed movement, but I don't think he ever even used it in the manga, so that's out the window. Mohrpheus (talk) 19:57, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

There was a signifigant difference in the sound of Kaname using Flash Steps (without the mask) and after donning it, the sound of his Sonido (which I personally think it is). Aizen using what sounded to be something similar (but not the same sound) to the sfx that Sonido makes when he used his Flash Steps could have been a mistake as I only heard the sound made when he used it one time (could have been a sfx mistake). But that's not for me to decide by myself as I do not work for the animation company making the show. Tosen however used it A LOT (not yelling) in his battle with Komamura. Most people are more than sure that what he used had the Sonido booming sound. We also have to take into consideration the fact that Tosen has developed his hollow powers FAR beyond the Vizard's hollow abilities (that we have seen thusfar), so there is a strong possibility that he did indeed use Sonido which is a common hollow skill as is the high speed regen he uses (another skill no Vizard has used so far). As for the speed in itself (being included on his page under Hollowfication), we could simply put that he is a Sonido expert/master (whichever) because it was rather apparent that he had exceptional skill in his movements to qualify for atleast expert. Mind you I am just one person and for the most part we must agree before anything is changed but this is just my opinion from what I have seen/heard from Tosen's movements. If the sfx for Sonido isn't considered then I believe we should take off the sfx (booming/static sound) mentioning on the Sonido page. Just my opinion. Thanks all. Klross (talk) 03:18, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

There is inconclusive evidence to support saying that Tosen used Sonido--God (Pray)  03:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Tosen's Resurrección
Well, with the release of Bleach 290, we got Tosen's Resurrección. We didn't get much good shots of it, and I managed to pan this together, as it was the best one I could find (aside from a very distant shot from standing behind Komamura, which is very distant, and likely harder to make out clearly). I'm wondering should we put this up now, or should we wait until the next episode for a possible better shot? Arrancar109 (Talk)  20:30, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

I say wait, this is a pretty bad shot so if we don't get anything next week, we can always put this up.--God (Pray)  20:37, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

won't the size of his resurreccion make it pretty hard to get a good picture? i mean with the wings and everything?Licourtrix (talk) 00:03, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Well, it looks like we have no choice. Because the anime never wants to just use the same shots as from the manga.... Mohrpheus  (Talk)  15:35, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I saw some images we could use. Some have his full body, but they don't look like this one.--Kuzer (talk) 19:13, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Best shot I could get from ep291 showing the whole thing. 21:36, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

I'd go with Yyp's 291 shot. It is a bit blurry because of the distance, but it does portray Tosen's entire Resurrección instead of most of it. So unless we get more options, I say we go with Yyp's 291 shot. Arrancar109 (Talk)  22:40, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Looks like that will be our best shot then. Its quality is slightly worse, but it is better overall. Perhaps if we can get a higher quality shot? Mohrpheus  (Talk)  04:50, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

I found the shot, but I couldn't get a Higher quality version. The scene is blurry in itself due to the distance and the position. But there's nothing better in the episode. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  05:08, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Tosen's friend
The new episode (290) has a better shot of Tosen at her corpse than the current one in the History Section. Can it be changed?Grimmjow2 (talk) 17:23, September 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ability Gifs
I made some gifs for Tosen's ability. Use them if you like. Tinni  (Talk)  14:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ressureccion Placement
A small question, but shouldn't Tosen's ressurection fall under his Hollowfication? I mean, he didn't have the ability before he was Hollowfied, I may be wrong here- and I won't change it myself until confirmation.--Lavaros (talk) 11:49, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

The reasons for this layout are explained in (both) the archives above. But in short, Resurreccion is a sword release, not part of the Hollow mask. So that is why it is in the zanpakuto section. 11:54, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Soul Society arc
Kaname first appears in a captain's meeting, as Gin Ichimaru walks in. As Gin heads to his position, he notices that Jushiro Ukitake isn't present. Kaname informs him that he is excused for injury. Bickering amongst the captains continues, though they are silenced by the Head-Captain. The meeting comences.

Shūhei Hisagi and Tetsuzaemon Iba appear, and welcome Kaname and Sajin Komamura. They converse about Sōsuke Aizen's death, and claim that all wars should be avoided. Though they realize that the current situation makes it inevitable. Kaname then states that war brings out the worst in men, and that is why he hates wars.

As Uryū Ishida heads to Rukia Kuchiki, he runs into Kaname. Kaname then claims that he has to terminate him for the sake of peace. He calls out to his Shikai and releases a sound wave, causing Uryū to fall asleep.

Kaname later confronts Kommamura, and briefly converses about him being on the same path as Kommamura.

Kaname, Tetsuzaemon, Komamura, and Hisagi later confront Kenpachi Zaraki. Just in time, Yumichika Ayasegawa and Ikkaku Madarame arrive. They both begin fighting Tetsuzaemon and Hisagi. The fight begins, Kaname and Komamura fight Kenpachi. Komamura angered by Kenpachi, releases his Zanpakutō Tenken, and causes an explosion on the top of the pillar they were all standing on. Kaname jumps up into the air, and tells Komamura to take two steps back. He then uses Suzumushi Form 2: Benihikō. The shards targeting Kenpachi fire rapidly, causing the pillar to break even more. The dust and debris of the explosion clears out, and Kenpachi is shown to be alive, astonishing Kaname and Komamura.

Kaname then explains to Kenpachi ways to become a captain. After explaining, he releases his Bankai, Suzumushi Tsushiki Enma Kōrogi, and a large black dome filled with darkness appears. Kenpachi then grows suspission. He notices that he can't see, hear, or sense reiatsu. Before he can even react, Kenpachi is cut from his shoulder, down. Kaname further explains that the one weilding Suzumushi is the one that can escape its Bankai, which Kaname refers to as his hell. Kenpachi attempts to attack Kaname, but ends up getting cut again. Many attacks are made on Kenpachi, which nearly get evaded. Kaname continues to question himself, as you cannot sense reiatsu, see, or hear within Suzumushi's Bankai.

Kaname begins to notice that Kenpachi's counter attacks are starting to get sharper. The grin on Kenpachi's face brings Kaname to belive that he is a demon. Kaname then stabs Kenpachi. Before he could even react, Kenpachi grabbed Kaname's Zanpakutōand regained his senses. Kenpachi then cuts Kaname diagnally across his body. Another attempt is made to kill Kenpachi, buts ends up getting cut again, causing his bankai to dissapear. Kaname's resolve has yet not ended, as he claims that he is still not defeated. Kenpachi then refuses to fight him, stating that he is half dead. As Kenpachi walks away, he gets stabbed by Kaname, angering Kenpachi. Kaname continues to insist, and nearly dies by Kenpachi's hand. His attack is blocked by Komamura's armour, causing it to break.

What happens afterwards to Tōsen is largely unknown, only that he heals and later appears before Renji Abarai and Rukia Kuchiki whom he teleports to Aizen once he is revealed to be a traitor, and watches the several attempts to stop Aizen. Tōsen leaves with Aizen and Gin. As he departs, Komamura demands an explanation from him about where his justice has gone, but Tōsen merely replies that he follows the path with least bloodshed. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So would this be suitable for replacing the new soul society arc? I really took the time to look through the manga until I got tired and copied/pasted the last paragraph (thus making this part of the plot partially mine......) I'm thinking that if we all contribute to its mistakes or simple grammar, then it will come out better and longer. This new soul society arc is made to add more equality between aizen's and gins soul society arc. Morgan silve (talk) 00:39, October 12, 2010 (UTC)Morgan silve

I think it looks very nice. I think it would be a nice change. *thumbs up* Ltjuno (talk) 01:16, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

ThanksMorgan silve (talk) 01:29, October 12, 2010 (UTC)Morgan silve

It is fine as it is now, you mostly just expanded the fights he was in and we are reducing the amount of text for fights because of the fight summary project. I see nothing wrong with the way it currently is, the reason Gin and Aizen have longer SS arcs is because they were more involved in the plot--God (Pray)  01:37, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Would it be okay if I added it to the plot?Morgan silve (talk) 01:47, October 12, 2010 (UTC)Morgan silve

No because as I said, his SS is fine as it is. There is no need to change it because if you did, the grammar corner would have to proofread it, it would have to be added to the article improvement project for a text reduction and then someone would have to claim it and do it. It would create needless work. It will remain as is.--God (Pray)  01:55, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Ok then.Morgan silve (talk) 02:26, October 12, 2010 (UTC)Morgan silve

Motives
I've been thinking that it might be useful for both Tosen and Gin's (although the latter is for obvious reasons not relevant within this discussion page) pages to reflect their MOTIVES under a clear section, perhaps under Personality as a subsection. as of now their motives are discussed briefly in both the storyline and personality sections, i personally would like there to be a conclusive couple of sentences to outline it in detail. any thoughts on this? sorry I'm new so i dont want to go ahead and change something without running it by a couple of regulars first, which i assume is probably the right way of doing things anyways. Sykoziz (talk) 10:45, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

As you said so yourself, the information is already presented in the article, twice in this situation. Here on the wiki, we generally try to avoid repeating information. No piece of information on the article is more important than another, so we present it in an equal fashion. It is not really necessary, but I suppose you could elaborate on what is already said, though I think it is fine as is. Mohrpheus  (Talk)  12:31, October 25, 2010 (UTC)

ok, thanks for the response! Sykoziz (talk) 14:22, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Resurrección: Mistranslated name?
Hiya! I'm talking as spanish I am. I was wondering a lot of time "why did Kubo called this Resurrección 'Grillar Grillo (gurijaru·gurijo)'?" One of my guessing is that Kubo mistranslated 'Grilla el Grillo (gurija·eru·gurijo; Crying Cricket/The Cricket Cries)'. Why? Well, other Resurrección as Pinza Aguda or Árbol has their own "style": 'pinsaguda' instead of 'pinsa·aguda'; 'arubora' instead of 'aruboru'. Maybe this one was also an "own-style" spelling. Just guessing; as spanish, I felt I must say that. :P Sorry for any trouble. SuikoRyos (talk) 19:26, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Kubo does not speak spanish. He does his best with spanish translations but he is not the best with them, hence why some mistakes are made in his spanish.--<font color="#660066" face="Verdana">God <font color="#660066" face="Verdana">(Pray)  19:32, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

As a native Spanish speaker and constant victim of Kubo's bad Spanish I can tell you firstly that "Grillar" is an actual word (I didn't believe it at first, I had to look it up in the RAE). Secondly, we are not going to entertain speculations of whether Kubo meant to use a different word. He has shown to use bad Spanish dozens of times. What was spelled out in the manga is what we're going to use and stick to because that's what he wrote and what was said in the anime. If that's what he wanted it to mean, we'll probably never know, but we're not going to twist his words to make it sound more gramatically correct. I'm not going to suffer another "Cero Oscuras/Cero Oscuro" controversy, thank you very much. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  19:37, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

@God, I know Kubo is not spanish and that no one is perfect. I, myself, am ashamed that I wrote "Cicada" instead of "Cricket" and "Feeled" instead of "Felt" (although I am fast to fix). I fail. ¬¬ Anyhow, I was just guessing... in the wrong place. I already noticed that there is a forum to talk about things like this (a.k.a. speculation and personal thoughs). So, I excuse myself for wasting your time with this. ^^ SuikoRyos (talk) 20:01, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

EXPANSION
I CANNOT STAND going into this page and looking at the shortness of his plot. LITERALLY, look at Gin's page. His S.S arc has four pictures and alot of text. I just want to add information, or expand it a little; such as other events that happened other than battle. I promise you that I will add manga references, I WILL DO IT COMPLETELY BASED OFF THE MANGA SINCE THE REFERENCES ARE ON THE PAGE!!!!!<font color="teal" face="Vivaldi">Luis Gabriel <font color="teal" face="Vivaldi">Lamborgini  19:25, February 15, 2011 (UTC) 

As we have said multiple times, Tosen's page is fine as it is. Gin had a larger part in the SS arc than Tosen therefore he has a longer SS arc section. His page does not need more pictures or text.--<font color="#660066" face="Verdana">God <font color="#660066" face="Verdana">(Pray)  19:28, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Boy, I have had it! I can't make one single edit in this wikia!! All I want to do is edit a section! How harmful can that be!? Kaname has made many appearences during the arc, and the way it explains it is too short. I know I take it far with the battles, but just give me a chance! NO TOSENS PAGE IS NOT FINE AS IT IS, ATLEAST IN THE SS SECTION! It's not like I am going to change the whole plot!! You know what; this is a wikia. Everyone has to take part in this not just the administrators/committee!! EVERY EDIT MADE BY SOMEONE THAT ISN'T PART OF THOSE GROUPS GET ERASED!!!! QUIT DICTATING AND LET ME EDIT!!<font color="teal" face="Vivaldi">Luis Gabriel <font color="teal" face="Vivaldi">Lamborgini  00:46, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Any edit that is helpful stays, any edit that is not is reverted. You have continually tried to expand this section and we keep telling you no. It is fine as it is. His SS arc as it stands explains his every appearance in the arc and does so in all the detail there needs to be for someone with such a minor part in the arc. Complain all you want but it does not change the fact that your edits in the past have been unhelpful and your current crop of edits are unhelpful. This section requires no changing.--<font color="#660066" face="Verdana">God <font color="#660066" face="Verdana">(Pray)  00:57, February 16, 2011 (UTC)