Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-5551986-20181227102057/@comment-957629-20190107131558

DodoMD wrote: Except it can. Kubo had stated previously that Rangiku's backstory would be relevant for the final arc. Also, she doesn't have the nail. The nail is inside the Hogyoku and is the reason Rangiku survived having parts her souls ripped out and why Gin stole the Hogyoku and why he apologized to Rangiku and that he couldn't return something. Actually Rangiku's past was described as "key" to the final arc. THIS is key?? Rangiku having THE NAIL of the Soul King inside her is SO KEY to the final arc he didn't bother to mention it. Can use his illness and rushed ending as an excuse all you want but if something is "key" then its included in the arc. But its not really key at all was it. I really don't care that Aizen stole the nail (damn I laugh every time I say it, what next his scrotum?) from Rangiku. Defend it all you like but it sounds stupid and convoluted.

DodoMD wrote: Hikone isn't both a Hollow and an Arrancar hybrid. He is just part Hollow. What you have demonstrated her is the failure of translators and why, when its done in an amateur, unprofessional fashion, it turns into Chinese whispers.

DodoMD wrote: We only have three characters who had created artificial beings. That's not really much and Hikone's story doesn't resemble Ururu or Nemu's story at all. Not to mention how they were created is completely different. See I wasn't even including Ururu in my original thought. But anyway, doesn't detract from fact that it just dilutes Mayuri's uniqueness in his one-sided rivalry with Urahara and what his goals and such were. Can be done quite easily apparently. You really are not going to justify this to me and satisfy me with this. As it is, there is a character added in to the non-manga story that is also artificial so really on the outside looking in, reminds me much of fanon I have seen over the years.

DodoMD wrote: It was explained that Tsunayashiro was branded as an dangerous element thanks to Shunsui. He got a few weeks in the Maggot's nest and then was put under house arrest, thanks to his connections. And all you have said to me that the explanation suits you. Given what we were told of the Maggot's Nest, changing it now is a Retcon. Maggot's Nest isn't what is used as a prison for criminals, we seen the prisons used in the Soul Society Arc where Rukia was imprisoned in various locations.

The Maggots Nest was established as a place where people deemed a hazard to Soul Society were placed, most of the time secretly and without trial. Now it's where a "noble"can be conveniently imprisoned like its a proper prison system?? That's an after thought.

DodoMD wrote: And before the final arc the Quincy were just there to give Uryuu a backstory And yet, no. The Quincies were properly developed and properly influenced the story from the first couple of chapters. They did multiple things throughout the story and the divide between Quincy and Shinigami was maintained throughout and was fundamental in the relationship between Uryu and Ichigo and later Uryu and Mayuri and then later between Uryu and his father.

By comparison the Fullbringer arc existed so Kubo could, in his own words, reboot the story and get Ichigo powers again. The Quincies did not just "drop in" in the final arc to solve convenient plot problems like getting to the palace again or fixing Ichigo's Zanpakuto before vanishing again. They played a much more developed role than convenient fixer uppers.

DodoMD wrote: Ukitake is not put in a negative light. The worst that could be said about it him is that he was unable to do more. And here we have the problem of it being Japanese-only again because you say one thing and someone else says another like implying strongly that Ukitake tried to have Kugo assassinated. Chinese whispers.

DodoMD wrote: Neither was that stated in the novels. Why are you continually quoting me and replying to me on this when clearly I am replying to someone else who laps up the novels? Shouldn't you be more productive with your posts and maybe correct him instead of quoting me with no context? When your point is to correct something but you instead are trying to degrade my reply to a point made by someone else, its kinda counter productive.

But yeah again this merely highlights one of my issues with the novels and their scope. They are Japanese-only and we have to rely on translators who write like they are on Fanfiction dot net. Seems to be a lot of confusion even amongst those who love the novels.

DodoMD wrote: So far it is consistent. This is also not a case of too many cooks. All the information Narita gives, comes directly from Kubo. Kubo discusses the events of the novels in Bleach Jet and treats them as completely canon. Nothing Narita revealed is not from Kubo.

Things done and shown after the cancellation or ending of the Manga can have immediate connotations with it in terms of motives and actions. You don't see the inconsistencies we (not just I) see because you don't want to, you want to believe their rambled or drawn out explanations even if they contradict things we have already seen before.

Most other media stuff still comes from Kubo influence, this is nothing new.

DodoMD wrote: So far everything is consistent. You just make it out to be inconsistent when it really isn't. Honestly, before you criticize the novels so much, you should read them yourself, instead of just bullet points.

I could easily reply with "You just make it out to be consistent when it really isn't".

I can't read the novels, they are in Japanese. I can only read secondary amateur translations of the novel and have tried so many times and they are putrid. This is a voluntary project and I have manga and anime relate stuff to be getting on with.

We will remain consistent in our policies, we are a wiki for the manga and subsequent Anime adaptation of that Manga. Other such content can be place on the wiki on relevant pages.

DodoMD wrote: That was already heavy implied in the manga, when Yhwach stated that Soul Society was created by the Shinigami or when Yhwach called his castle Wahrwelt, aka True World and his entire plan was to bring back the world to how it previously was. Even the Kaisergesang stated that he will reclaim the world. Antagonists imply things all the time. Yhwach was defeated and took centuries to rebuild for a war to destroy the realms. If his intention was that the world was different before and now he's just rectifying this while committing mass murder, easily could have been explained but it wasn't.

Subsequently it's now an afterthought, written by someone who is not the primary author under the influence of the primary author who could easily have written himself but didn't. You may not want to see real world motives here but there are easily many that could explain it.

DodoMD wrote: Nothing the novels stated contradict the events of the manga. This is not a case of too many cooks. If I'm honest, this sounds if you want to discredit the novels as much as possible. The novels only said that Orihime can't heal something if there are no traces left and if the time limit is up, which is at least 24 hours long. How does that contradict the manga?

The very fact that Grimmjow lost his arm on September 7th and didn't get restored in its entirety until 31st October.

If there was a time limit at all this would matter but it doesn't. Then you are going to say that the time limit only applies in mortal wounds and such other convoluted limits that didn't need to be altered.

We already seen Orihime struggle with healing Ichigo during his bout with Ulquiorra. We already knew her will was a big thing which is why her rejecting events to "heal" people was usually more successful than her attempts to hurt them. That was enough, we don't need after thought limitations.

You might not find them to be inconsistent but these limitations to her four abilities could easily have been touched upon once in the 15 years but they were not. We seen her effortlessly heal many things, many times where these could have been explored hell, even in the last arc when she did one or two things that were "fundamental" could have touched upon but no nothing.

DodoMD wrote: Except this was already stated before. They are talking about the new C46 that was established after Aizen was defeated. We see the new 46 in the manga. I will concede that point, no problem admitting I was wrong there. We all make mistakes.

However, we never seen them be attacked or anything and now there's only a few left per the point I was replying to so do not know why this is relevant or an interesting point to mention.

DodoMD wrote: It is not a retcon. Tosen's main motivation was revenge. The truth about Soul Soul Society was why he believed to follow Aizen. Yes yes the "truth". We already knew that the process in C46 is imperfect, this was already stated. But now its needs to be an even bigger conspiracy and part of a group of powerful people who weren't even glanced upon.

I never said Tosen's motivation was not revenge. The point I was making was that its all this trying to make it "more deep" when it comes up shallow because we are now creating even higher ups just because and trying to justify a murderer being a murderer because he was angry the justice system didn't go his way.

You did not refute my point. He could have, at any point, stated why he wanted revenge why things were corrupt and such.

But he didn't.

Instead what he does the entire time is mock Komamura revealing that he is a deeply disturbed individual who justifies his own hurt for his murderous actions. He could have said about the state of things that he knew "the truth" and was trying to change it from within but no he doesn't he just bangs on and on about revenge and how not joining Aizen in his murderous cause would be evil.

That was enough. Literally. There was no need to invent a massive higher up conspiracy that is in control of everything when we already have higher ranked beings who have already shown they can do corrupt things. Adding more grit for the sake of grit rather than actual depth.

And sorry, but when Chapter 168 states that Central 46 is the highest court in the realm and the novel now CONTRADICT THAT by saying that its actually the noble houses then yeah that inconsistent. That's a retcon.

Also a council of nobles that is above Central 46 but instead Byakiuya blindly follows them despite being a noble? No sorry none of it makes without retconning it.

Could have easily said the guy Tosen was angry at was rich and paid off members of the Central 46 for a lesser sentence without inventing a whole new corruption that Seireitei are guilty of.

Just because you like this does not make it consistent. Just because a couple of antagonists were disaffected and claiming about corruption and "all lies" does not make it consistent with what was already put to paper.

DodoMD wrote: Again, that was already heavy implied in the manga, when Yhwach stated that Soul Society was created by the Shinigami or when Yhwach called his castle Wahrwelt, aka True World and his entire plan was to bring back the world to how it previously was. Heavily implied, hm OK so when creating a new country for Quincy or destroying Soul King and enjoying that the realms would shatter. At any point this could have been stated that he was fixing the realms but he didn't. He just enjoys that he is destroying them and when Mimihagi stops the utter destruction, he absorbs he and formulate another plan.

Not once is it stated that he is fixing the realm to how it should be. Sure he makes the usual vague references to how his way is right and others is wrong but that's literally true for almost all antagonists. Honestly sounds like an Astrologist now, vague statements that could be used in any way now being used to say "It was this way all along" when there was literally nothing to show it was. Mere vague allusions to "My way is right this way is wrong" don't count.

DodoMD wrote: Because there is a reason for why the Sword is with Oetsu and not in the Seretei. This was not even related to the points (plural) that I made here. Nimaiya literally does nothing when this all powerful sword is released from the evaporating seal and just goes about with other matters. Like a prison warden whose prison evaporates around him and does nothing and then wakens days or day (whatever) later to realise the prisoners are gone or might be gone. Not a natural response to something shoehorned in to be so important that it is protected. Thus unrealistic and inconsistent.

DodoMD wrote: How dare Yhwach become a character who is complex and has nuances. He was already complex but trying to portray his actions as "good" when he's clearly insane and enjoying the destruction is inconsistent with how he was portrayed. And again you are taking "I like this development thus it must be consistent and how dare this person point out flaws because it makes sense to my favorable mindset."

DodoMD wrote: When Yhwach met the Soul King, he stated that he will end the lifelong humiliation he had to suffer. When they arrive in the Soul Palace, he calls it a rotten graveyard and Haschwalth believes that Yhwach is shaken with fear. When they fight Ichigo, Yhwach tells him, that Ichigo is soon to be crushed by the gears of fate and offers to at least end his life before that happens. Also, why do you think was Yhwach so confused that Mimihagi was against him? Again this is nothing more than a usual antagonist of "I am right, your way is wrong and I can't fathom the alternative". You are literally taking vague outrages and turning them into "He was saving the world really, his genocidal action are really saving the world, he's so deep now".

He constantly treated life like it was secondary to him, he was regularly flippant with it. He regularly killed even when frankly it wasn't needed. If he was "complex" then focus on it instead of just constantly on how he throws away the lives of those around him.

DodoMD wrote: He literally stated in the manga that he is going to end the lifelong humiliation his father had to suffer. You have said this many times and again its a vague thing that can easily be cherry picked into this whole good cause. But its not because he's enjoying the destruction and death around him.

If he stated something like "end humiliation and right the world as it should be before people mutilated it into something its not" fine but he doesn't he says vague things that could be interpreted in anyway. Being arrogant and considering someone else's position beneath you isn't a new phenomenon.

DodoMD wrote: Not to be rude but it sounds like you remembering what happened in the manga wrong and blaming the novels for disagreeing with your headcanon.

Not to be rude but it sounds like you are reinterpreting what happened in the Manga to forcefully fit it into the novel canon.

See how that works?? I can easily say it about you too. And again, not my headcanon because people who actually put effort in and work on this Wiki and have done for years agree with me. Our policies are consistent and remain as such. You want us to change to suit your novel love but sorry no.

Timjer wrote: Well, to be fair, the final part is still being translated and a lot of things are yet to be revealed or clarified. That being said, it's mentioned that the reason Hollows are attracted to potential Fullbringers is because they can sense a piece of the SK in them.

Wow because "Hollows are attracted to people with Spiritual Power" just wasn't enough. Have to shoehorn in more stuff.

Timjer wrote: That's actually adressed: the piece of her Aizen stole to complete his Hogyoku. It's even metnioned that despite such a crippling piece of her missing, she still was able to become a (relatively) powerful Shinigami lieutenant. Still failed to justify it at all. A nail. Its utter laughable. The nail being inside someone random it just silly. Her history was stated to be key before the final arc and nothing even revealed here is key at all.

Her having the nail inside her, for random reasons, given other parts of the Soul King act independently, just doesn't flex. It doesn't change anything. Aizen was still a murderer. Gin was still a murderer with his own goals. Yhwach still a murderer. Tosen still a murderer.

All the justification for this was Rangiku was supposed to be key in the development and turned out, given the story continued without her doing much significant or being discussed he obviously couldn't work it in. Being a nail is not key.

He also said Yumichika was a good choice for a Bankai and that a relationship could develop between Momo and Shinji. These aren't set in stone, he was clearly brainstorming because again nothing anyone has said has been "key". Its all an afterthought.