User talk:Ryulong

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Sui-Feng
The page is as it should be. That is how the databooks have her name. That is how we are going to list it. The databooks do not show soifon as the romaji.--

No, we go by what the databooks say, end of story.--

Translations
If you wish to change a translation, clear it with the Translation Corner first.
 * I didn't change a translation. Someone copied Bu when it should be Pu. Check the japanese wikipedia.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 10:42, November 4, 2013 (UTC)

Removing Talk Page Content

 * What? Good bye. Have fun having the wrong translation.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龍 ) 14:41, November 4, 2013 (UTC)

Translations et. al
Alright, I'm gonna step in here and make this as civil as possible before it gets out of hand. First and foremost, you should not be changing anything involving translations, even if it's just "miscopied katakana" as you claim without first taking it to the Translation Corner, where it can be confirmed whether you are right or wrong by this site's experienced translators. And I've seen many raws, the kana is extremely small, so case and point, leave it up to them to see which diacritic on the "fu" kana is actually there.

Now, the second point. Undoing an edit by and admin or committee member here is considered edit warring, which is a direct violation of the very strict (yet very necessary) policies we have here. Simply bringing the issue to the Translation Corner does not give you a free pass to change it back until it is resolved. As was also stated in the warnings above, you are not allowed to remove content from your talk page unless you are either a) archiving it, or b) it is harassment.

Long story short, you are free to edit here, but please make sure to actually read the policies, as they are what keeps this place from descending into chaos given its large userbase.
 * I wasn't aware it was against the rules to remove content from your own user talk page and it's been an ungodly amount of time between when I fixed the dakuten was demanded that I bring it to the translation corner, and then all of a sudden nothing has fucking happened in two weeks so I'm fed up with this particular site. You have fun with your incorrect information because of your ass backwards policies.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 14:15, November 18, 2013 (UTC)

Edit Warring Alert

 * See this just above this post?? That official warning that told you to stop edit warring which you did not do and continued to add information to the article without the agreement of those on this site?? That means you are to be blocked, you were told to stop it, you did not and only stopped it when I listed you to be blocked. You have absolutely no respect for how things are done on this wiki and have no regard for the rules, just what you think is right. Well the fact that you did not halt your actions despite being given a warning, which in fact, you should not have been given because this is not the first time you have done this and got a ban for it, means you should be blocked as it is in line with our policies. You are continuing to edit war now, that ADMIN REQUEST is not a discussion I have said it multiple times, but still you are continuing which means you don't respect anything here you just want to whine about being right and disregard everything else that is said to you.


 * Right since this seems to be causing arguments I will close the discussion for blocking, despite the fact you were edit warring today AGAIN by continuing to post somewhere I told you not to, I will close the request but one more rule, one final chance and it will be reopened along with links to everytime you have broken the rules and continued to break them despite warnings. Again I suggest you read the policies as that type of attitude is not tolerated here regardless of how right or better changes are not made on a whim they are discussed with the editors, agreed upon and then acted out. If you want to be here and if you truly care about this Wikia you will respect that.

Translation
First there is no rule that a name should be spelled like it sounds. Official name is all that matters regardless of what fan scans or whatever have you call her, doesnt make it right plus this site doesnt do pronunciation. Secondly your not a translator here hence why your translation points were removed. It clearly says if your not a translator dont dictate what a translation should be. The issue apparently is and has been for some time that we arent going with your translation and therefore it must wrong. Though that doesnt seem to be the case.--

I'm gonna have to agree with Sal here. Unlike the translators whom we do rely on (Adam, Mad6, cnet128, BadKarma), you haven't proven yourself to be an expert translator of the Japanese language - simply saying "this is right" does not automatically make you correct and believable. Additionally, none of those aforementioned, well-established translators raised either of the issues you did, and they've been doing this for a lot longer, so I'm not inclined to believe they are actually issues as you would have us believe.--Xilinoc (talk) 00:17, May 26, 2015 (UTC)


 * Jumping in here with a swift reminder that your Suì-Fēng edits were not welcome in 2011 and they are not welcome now in 2015. We pride ourselves in consistency and you have provided no reason to trust you have the goodwill of our Wikia at heart with your edits. This is a simple case of you think you are correct, despite the fact experienced editors and translators here disagree with you, and because you think you are correct, you want our Wikia to reflect your opinion rather than what is stated in official sources. Her name may sound like Soifon but in the end, it is not Soifon, it is Suì-Fēng. Unless something official states it to be something else, it is remaining as such. You have also been told before not to change thing here on a whim and you have been blocked for such behavior before. I would suggest you start respecting the Wikia and its policies or another ban will be inevitable as we will not tolerate Edit warring on any scale.
 * Wow, SunXia, Xilinoc, and Salubri, none of you have any idea what I am trying to tell you regardless of all of the footnotes and talk page messages and translation board posts I've done. I am aware that "砕蜂" is officially translated as "Suì-Fēng" but you guys have CONSTANTLY ignored the fact that this Chinese language name has a Japanese language approximation that has existed since this character was introduced and that is why everyone calls her "Soifon" still. I am NOT saying that "Soifon" is this character's name. I trying to show that "Soifon" is the romaji of the character's name just like "Esupāda" is the romaji for Espada. "Suì-Fēng" is pronounced as "Soifon" in Japanese. That is ALL I am trying to point out by having it presented as . And also, Ichibē Hyōsube has the wrong title and I've laid that explanation out for you at the translation corner thing but as usual it's "our Japanese experts know better than anyone who's studied Japanese or lived in Japan".— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 06:51, May 26, 2015 (UTC)

Stepping in
Alright I'm gonna weigh in here, seeing as there's a bit of a dispute over the Bleach Wiki Skype chat. First of all, I'm gonna make one thing clear. Your attitude is unacceptable. Fix that, and we can work together here.

Now, I agree with your Sui-Feng argument, fully. The databook page is quite clear. Her English name is Sui-Feng, the Katakana says Soifon. I agree that this should be noted in the template.

As far as Hyosube is concerned, one person's word is not enough to go on. While your argument seems like it has merit, I'd like to hear from other people. Give us some time, let us pull some strings with our off-site sources, and let us be sure before we change anything.

Please, let's be peaceful here. Respect that these kind of changes do take time to confirm, and that our policies here, as "ass-backward" as they may seem to you, are in place to stop things from going completely awry on a daily basis. All I ask is that you don't spit in the wiki's face like you've done in the past. Work with me here, and I can guarantee something will get done.
 * I'm sorry thatI didn't see this message earlier.
 * The way I've responded is perhaps unacceptable, but I've never been on any wiki that has been so strict, and I was yelled at for being strict at Wikipedia when it came to other topics.
 * The Sui-Feng thing is simple enough to fix. I definitely tried to do that 3 different ways. Either add it like every other thing with furigana is written (like it is on Espada) or use the Ruby formatting that most modern browsers support (it will show up like this: 砕蜂ソイフォン ). I don't know which databook gave her name with Pinyin though, cause it's certainly not the one with the page hosted locally. Also, the same databook might require some other title changes unless other translations are available.
 * And the Ichibee thing is simple. If two kanji are used there should be a split between them. The name is written 一いち兵べ衛え or "Ichi-be-e" and not "Ichi-bee". There's really no native long E sound in Japanese outside of the words for "sister", and even then it's rare to see "nēsan" when everyone seems to go with "neesan". Basically, if you plug "一兵衛" into Google Translate and look at the transliteration (which uses Hepburn), it will give you "Ichibee" while if you put in "姐さん" (sister) it shows you "Nēsan" (however if you use "兄さん" [brother] it will give you "Nīsan" which is wrong in Hepburn afaik).
 * I'm sorry fo the trouble I've caused. I'm just trying to fix these things and every time I do I'm penalized for it.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 12:00, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * We did try Furigana here for a short while, but the text-above-text caused some unneeded stretching and it ended up being decided against. Regardless, the Sui-Feng matter is being discussed and I'll be damned if something doesn't get gone.
 * Back to the Ichibee thing, like I said, it's gonna take some time, we've got a former scanlator among our sources, so we're checking with him on that. Please be patient.
 * I thank you for meeting me halfway here. Frankly I prefer that our information on Bleach be accurate. The reason we're so strict is because of past events that have given rise to policies that reflect their outcome.
 * As for the block request thread, the reason replies keep getting removed is because that thread isn't the place for discussion. This (and other talk pages) is. As I said, work with me (which you are), and things should go well.
 * (On a side note, no we don't have any ping function outside of the Wikia chat, but I keep an eye on RecentChanges so I will see when there's a reply to anything I type here).
 * Well I just know Wikipedia had a function that notified people if their username was linked to on any page, and they made a template to facilitate it. Also with how I've been doing stuff on Wikia more frequently the other ones have message walls instead of talk pages.
 * And the Ichibee thing is just simple. There are very few words native to Japanese that have long A, long E, or long I, and most other instances of A-A, E-E, or I-I sounds occur where there's a break in the word or name. Like with the name "Masaaki" (正明) which is supposed to be read "Ma-sa-a-ki" and not "Ma-sā-ki". With "Ichibee" it's similar, even though it is meant to be a long vowel, but that's why most people assumed it was "Ichibei". Hell, when I'm typing "Ichibei" into Google Translate it gives me the "Ichibee" name instead. Accuracy is one thing, but so is common sense. Also, macrons are kinda ugly.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 23:04, May 29, 2015 (UTC)
 * Minor tangent (this seems the easiest place to post to get this across) but I'd like to apologise for posting on said Block Request Thread, did not realize that it wasn't a forum for open discussion at the time. My apologies, and I'm glad to hear that things are being handled differently.--Tenevhrael (talk) 12:36, May 30, 2015 (UTC)

Feng
If possible, could you just point me to the Kana for Sui-Feng's birth name? That databook page did not seem to have that specific kana, unless I am mistaken.
 * I found it ages ago but I can't recall specifics. It's probably included on the page when that name is first mentioned in the manga.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 02:46, June 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * It's on the Japanese Wikipedia (which hasn't been changed in a while) and it's definitely in chapter 159 but I don't know where to find raws to prove it.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 02:54, June 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the chapter number. I found the page.
 * Also, you guys know Chinese names are translated in the Chinese order so it should likely be parsed as "Feng Shaolin" right?— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 09:47, June 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Much like Japanese names, we tend to use Western order predominantly while using original/Eastern order in the translation templates. Since her given name was Shaolin, it would go first when spoken by people in the west.
 * No, I mean, even in Western conventions, Chinese names are written surname first. Japan is the only nation one that switched to the Western name order when they modernized.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 10:29, June 4, 2015 (UTC)
 * This and this page state otherwise.
 * "Chinese people, except for those traveling or living outside of China, rarely reverse their names to the western naming order (given name, then family name). Western publications usually preserve the Chinese naming order, with the family name first, followed by the given name." Chinese names are in Eastern order when translated, while Japanese names are in Western order when translated. It should be parsed "Feng Shaolin(g)".— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 23:14, June 4, 2015 (UTC)

Well I'll be damned. Proven wrong by my own sources.
 * Now what to do about the Ichibee thing?— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 11:14, June 12, 2015 (UTC)

Sui-feng
The way you added the brackets is not how we use brackets here, creating unnecessary clunky space. Schiffy edited it to remove the spaces and you went and added them back in. I was aware you probably didn't realize he had done it but your "it looks better" attitude meant rather than another official warning because, you know, the whole edit warring thing you can't seem to get a handle on, I wrote it in the edit summary. I am chomping nothing, no need to get dramatic. You don't change the style of a page without discussion, even if you feel it looks better. I keep telling you that you don't just change styles on our articles, you discuss them or it is what you are meant to do. That's not how we use brackets here at this current time. "Look better" i a personal opinion and not a fact so if you feel a style should be changed then discuss it.
 * You're not a native English speaker are you— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 07:10, June 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * That's a tad rude, she said "that's not how we use brackets here at this current time." so it's clearly a policy thing. Go through things through the correct channels and you'll see changes, this is a highly organized wiki so just be patient and have a conversation before trying to forcibly change things and everything should go a lot smoother.--Tenevhrael (talk) 08:10, June 13, 2015 (UTC)
 * Wow what a way to pretend you did nothing wrong. English is my first language, learnt in the UK, born and bred. Just because it doesn't suit you that there are different dialects English, there is no need to be rude about it. This is exactly the kind of attitude that resulted in your ban before.
 * I was not aware of the earlier change by Schiffy. I did not think fullwidth parentheses would be such an issue.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 04:54, June 15, 2015 (UTC)
 * If it changes the style of a page, it's better to discuss it which what we have been repeatedly telling you to do. Also, the fact you made an edit to add them in and they were later removed should really have told you the change had happened so please be more vigilant.
 * Can you not take my word for it that I was unaware of who had done what? I added them. I came back days later and saw they were changed so I changed them back.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 06:42, June 16, 2015 (UTC)

I am sure you can appreciate that if you changed it then someone changed it back that it is counterproductive to have two users adding then removing then adding (then removing etc) as it results in a bunch of edits that have achieved nothing. Its is simply more productive to discuss a change, especially if the edit has been changed back. It applies doubly if a Moderator/Committee Member/Admin does it but either way its just best to discuss something rather then get into what is deemed an Edit War which we have a major rule against due to its counterproductive nature. But we have always use full brackets, I wasn't even aware there were ever half width but full is the style we use.
 * You really are good at making me want to stay and help out here.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 00:38, June 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * What you do with your time is your own choice but if you want to spend it here and edit our pages you will have to learn to respect the rules. If you add something to an article and someone, especially a member of the team but even another user, removes it you do not engage in an edit war by re-adding the change. You open a discussion and allow a decision to be made then change it. You don't open a discussion while continuing the counterproductive Edit War.
 * And don't add extra colons onto my message, I omitted them for a reason, it's getting to look ridiculous.
 * You see, the thing is that you have been hounding me for a week now about something I did not mean to do. I don't need to keep logging onto Wikia to see "You have a message at the Bleach Wiki" and it's you still on my case about these stupid fullwidth brackets. Just drop the fucking topic already and go do something more productive. Half of what you've done in your past 50 edits is hound me for this garbage.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 09:35, June 18, 2015 (UTC)
 * Then import one of the outdent templates from every other site.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 09:33, June 18, 2015 (UTC)

Drop the topic?? You are the one continually whinging about it. I am making you aware of the rules after you went and whinged to Schiffy about me. You brought the topic up, I did not, I made an edit summary reminding you you were violating the rules and I didn't request a block when I could have considering you are on thing ice because of your attitude. When I seen the over dramatic message, I messaged you reminding you of what edit warring is and then instead of just "I didn't realize" and moving on, you insulted my ability to speak English, deliberately I might add. You then used "not knowing" as an excuse but in the end, you have had multiple warnings about Edit Warring over the years, you should know what it is but instead I again, politely asked you to appreciate what counterproductive editing is. So I reminded you that regardless of who reverted your edit, changing it back is still edit warring. Then you respond with "You really are good at making me want to stay and help out here." basically passively aggressively insulting me again because I am reminding you of RULES on a topic you started. And no, if you actually paid attention to the amount of productive editing I do here, I have edited your page this week no more near 25 times, let alone half of what I have done this week. If you replied with "I understand and respect that" or something to that effect, the topic would be dropped but instead its moaning or insults or excuses that still don't negate the rules. And I don't care about indents and what not, it all serves the same purpose. We wouldn't have this problem (of over the top amount of indents) if you did what we do here and leave messages for users on their talk pages. May not be how other people do it on other wikis but it's how it's done here. Either way you can see what I wrote and its not all pulled over to the side too much.
 * I complain because every time I sign in to another site I see this again.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 22:00, June 18, 2015 (UTC)

Heiling Pfeil
Unless you can find a raw version of chapter 490, right now we're going by this archive, which clearly says "Bufairu".

If you can find me that, and a clearer version of this page, I will undo all the rollbacks. Until then, do not add the changes back without discussion.
 * Translation Corner covers the chapter 620 thing. I personally can't find anything in Google that comes remotely close to the translation you guys ahve up atm.
 * As for scans that say 神聖滅矢（ハイリッヒ・プファイル） (which you should be aware that ブ and プ look really similar and are often mistaken), I'll find them, but for now I'll point you to this Google search for "pufairu" and this one for "bufairu". It's a bad typo that whoever was doing the translation work 3 years ago really fucked up.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 05:29, December 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * I've found these two pages from chapter 490 that say ハイリッヒ・プファイル. The handakuten on the pu is just about visible as a circle and not the two hashes of the dakuten that would make it bu.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 05:53, December 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh and there were already a few pages that already had ハイリッヒ・プファイル on them locally that weren't changed by me.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 06:02, December 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Zooming those pages in, one looks clearly like two dashes and the other looks more like two dashes smudged together than it looks like a circle for dakuten.
 * There's a furigana dakuten on another character on one of the pages. It clearly shows the difference between ゛ and ゜. That and I've pointed out that there are over 1000 uses of pufairu in Japanese sources and the only use of bufairu comes from websites mirroring this Wikia (and like 4 Japanese blogs). It's Pu. The original scanlators made a typo 3 years ago.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 06:10, December 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * That judgement will be made in due time, if you change it you are guilty of editing warring so leave it as it is until we hear from our reliable translator. To me it looks like dashes.
 * See also NicoNico Douga's dictionary (basically their Wiki), Japanese Wikipedia, this website that lists Bleach terms that I've just found by changing my search parameters a bit, it's apparently in that Bleach mobile game too. Everyone uses Pufairu except you guys here because someone made a mistake 3 years ago. That said, mistaking ゛ and ゜ is fairly common, but even common sense dictates that "bu" makes zero sense here when it's a German word with a P in it. Kubo's at least decent with foreign languages AFAIK.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 06:24, December 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Fun fact. Jump has the chapter in color as a digital preview. This is as far as I can zoom in on the page in question as I can't save the file directly: http://i.imgur.com/NJU3bqo.png Pu.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 06:51, December 2, 2015 (UTC)
 * Alright, I can agree with (at least) the Schutzstaffel thing. But as far as Heiling Pfeil goes..... it's just very unclear. On all the images you're linking, I cannot tell for the life of me whether it is プ or ブ.
 * That is a very common problem when it comes to ゜ but I think with context it's clear it should be pu.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 02:57, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

I'm gonna agree with Ryu here: that looks like the ゜ mark to me, as even if it were blurry, ゛ would be thinner near the top due to the separation between the two lines, whereas in this instance the mark seems to be of consistent width all the way around. So yeah, change it to Pufairu.--Xilinoc (talk) 00:01, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

"Ping"
I check Recentchanges regularly. You really don't need to message me telling me you replied here. Just sayin'.
 * Just making sure.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 09:11, December 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Are we good on switching to Pufairu though?— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 09:13, December 3, 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok dude maybe you are mixed up a little but Schiffy is not an Admin, we are still discussing this topic as a team. No one person makes this decision.
 * That may be but I've put forward as much proof as possible that it's Pufairu when it's only this website that uses "Bufairu" because of one typo one scanlator made 3 years ago. The German word is "Pfeil". Multiple Japanese websites have "Pufairu". I provided as high a resolution an image from the chapter where the word shows up to show it's "Pufairu" and not "Bufairu" and you decide on your own that I must be wrong because why? It shouldn't be this complicated to say "Yo, the English scanlator screwed everything up because it's really easy to mistake the dakuten and the handakuten particularly when it's tiny furigana, but every single web entity that came after uses the correct form which makes total sense if you can understand that the word is 'Pfeil'." This is just like last time. I'm the outsider who can't be trusted to point out that the Japanese pronunciation of "Sui-Feng" is "Soifon" despite the proof sitting right in front of your faces.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 23:39, December 6, 2015 (UTC)

Relax and stop taking everything so personal. I told you before we were waiting to hear back from a translator Xil has contacted with your copies. The only person making it personal is you. You make decisions on your own without consulting people and then hound us when we have told you were are discussing it as a team. I don't care about translations, they are what they are, they are unclear and not clear cut. Relax, the world is not going to end over a couple of possible mis-translations. Its your attitude and behavior that makes you feel like an outsider because you refuse to have any patience and respect for anyones opinion but your own.
 * But it shouldn't be this complicated. "Hey, all these other websites and media use Pu and there's no reason the German P sound should be B in Japanese" should have been enough.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 00:09, December 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Just because a lot of people say its right doesn't make it right. There's a lot of site out there that are wrong too. Just because you don't think it's complicated, others disagree. So sit back, have a cup of tea, chill and don't edit my messages.
 * If 50 websites have Pu and this Wikia is the only one with Bu, I think there'd be something to look into. Also changing your indents isn't editing your messages.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 08:59, December 7, 2015 (UTC)

Again patience is a virtue. We have been discussing this and agree to wait for clarification from a trusted translator. And yes it is editing my messages. I am not going to continue discussions halfway across a page. Continue to do it to your messages if you wish but I have reset the indent for a reason and it was my choice on my message.
 * I don't know why it takes so long to go "yeah it was a typo" but okay.
 * The indent resets ruin the flow of the page when you're doing it on every line. I can understand resetting it at one point but every line? Really?— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 20:47, December 7, 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't matter that you don't like how I am messaging you. The point of the matter is that it is against policies to edit war. It is against policies to refuse to stop doing what a Committee member is asking you to stop doing. I chose to message you in this fashion and you are aware fully of that choice. This is why you classify yourself as an outsider because you lack all respect for us, our rules and our community. You wouldn't have to indent at all because here we message each other and reply to messages on each others walls. But since you fail to grasp simple rules I'm not enforcing that one. I've ask you to stop altering my messages, I prefer to type against the wall because usually I have a lot to say and frankly prefer to have the space to type in. It interrupts no flow as you can easily see the messages there and reply to them with your impatience again. In regards to the issue, again, be patient.
 * It wouldn't be a god damn edit war if you weren't so sensitive about something as minor and insignificant as the fact that I want to see these messages here in a threaded format. Modifying the indentation level isn't that serious that you have to give me a god damn edit warring warning for it. It's ridiculous and petty bullshit. It'd be easier if you guys switched over to the actual message wall format instead of the user talk page stuff.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 21:30, December 7, 2015 (UTC)
 * Correction I gave you an Edit Warring Alert for Edit Warring. If I had given you the warning for changing the indents, I would have given it to you the first time you did it but I didn't and you are aware of that. I gave you it for changing them several times despite me telling you not to. We like the Talk Page, its not for everyone but we like it. Since this is not an essay I will indent it.
 * But the only edits I had been doing was to the indents here. Because that's the most pathetic thing to be mad at me about to warn me over.— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 10:49, December 9, 2015 (UTC)

So, it's been well over a week since I first brought this typo to everyone's attention. Has it been corrected yet?— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 01:09, December 16, 2015 (UTC)
 * When we hear back from the translator who serves us well and respectfully, if it needs corrected it will be. Patience.
 * Okay. Will he be seeing the evidence I've put forward other than that one preview page? Like how multiple non-Bleach Wikia websites all use Pu?— Ryulong ( 琉竜 ) 08:45, December 16, 2015 (UTC)