Talk:Ichigo Kurosaki/Archive 3

Age
Maybe he is 16 right now but he was 15 years old in the first chapter shoudln't you include that? --Cococrash11 (talk) 21:16, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Only the current traits of the character are listed, hence why he is no longer classified as a Shinigami. Mohrpheus (talk) 21:18, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Status
He is no longer human as he is now fully getsuga. He used the FINAL getsuga tenshou, so i was wondering in what section should he be now? Human( he's not a human anymore ), shinigami( moved past that ), hollow( nope ) so what IS his status now? A Zanpakutō? Lure.d (talk) 20:17, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Sign your posts, please. Like the case with Aizen, until what Ichigo is is stated, we cannot change anything as far as his race goes. Mohrpheus (talk) 13:17, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

At what point was it said he wasn't human or anything else. He just said he had given up his Shinigami powers. There will be no change in his species, unlike Aizen who is currently an unknown.--Salubri (Talk)  14:02, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Mugetsu
I noticed that it called the energy thing-a-ma-bob in Ichigo's hand a blade.

And that the sky went black with its presence.

First of, it could be a rod. We didn't see anything confirming it was a blade.

Second, we don't know if it was a energy lance like Ulquiorra's Lanza del Rampalago. That black reiatsu could have been an explosion.

I think we need to modify those sections or hold out. Bleachshinigami (talk) 00:05, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with your first point. We didn't see enough of what Ichigo Generated to confirm it was a blade. That should be modified. However, we can't really say that the sky darkening was an explosion, since there wasn't enough environmental destruction involved. Either way, you're right, we should modify the article just in case this stuff turns out to be speculation. Also, near the end of the FKA I noticed a few spelling errors and grammar mistakes. So someone should probably get to that soon. I would, naturally, being me, but I can't edit the page for a reason unknown to me(It could be locked, but since I'm relatively new to the wikia, I'm not entirely sure.)Pwndulquiorra (talk) 00:22, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Information is presented as it is shown or stated. Anything else is speculation. We put down what occurred nothing more. saying that Ichigo would use anything other then sword, which is the only weapon he is comfortable or trained in is speculation. He is not Ulquiorra so thats a what if statement. We do know a change as per the weapon being brought forth. That is all that is mentioned.--Salubri (Talk)  04:07, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * How do you even know it's a weapon, Salubri? All we saw was a black line forming in his hand and then him saying Mugetsu, followed by the shroud of darkness. We can't call it a sword, and lance or even a stick. We just need to say the energy began to gather in his hand, since we know that Getsuga's black energy was around that arm, and leave it at that until it's confirmed to be a weapon. ---Ten Tailed Fox talk page 23:19, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yea we wont be going with the point of saying speculative stuff like its the energy around his arm. Its obviously a weapon and from the injury to Aizen its obviously a weapon and one that resembeles that type of weapon Ichigo commonly uses. --Salubri (Talk)  07:41, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Bankai
Well since Ichigo has a new Bankai form shouldn't it be proper to include both of his old and new bankai? EpiKc (talk) 01:31, September 17, 2010 (UTC)EpiKc

It is not a new Bankai. After exiting the dangai, his appearence changed slightly, which was noted in his bankai. Now, the Final Getsuga Tenshō is something entirely different than bankai and is noted as such--God (Pray)  01:52, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

It is stated multiple times that the Final Getsuga Tensho is a technique. As shown it is one activated through bankai.

Zangetsu Article
Looking through all of the information that we have on Zangetsu, I was wondering if we could reconsider using the Zangetsu (spirit) article for manga content. Unlike the other "canon" Zanpakuto spirits, Zangetsu has an in-depth personality that we could really flesh out in an article, which really isn't explained in Ichigo's article. The revelations from the newest chapter are a good example. Plus, he has two different forms, and a third one since he has dominance over the Hollow Tensa fusion. The Ichigo article can't really fit most of these pics into one spot, and the rest of the content would interfere with the fact that the article is supposed to focus on just Ichigo. Mohrpheus (talk) 03:27, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmph. I would agree. I know it has always been said that the spirit page is only for the zanpakutō arc but we need somewhere where we can flesh out Zangetsu's personality and Tensa Zangetsu as well as the fusion. I think this would be the best place. --God (Pray)  03:31, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

There is nothing stating that we have to include any pictures. The same issue could be said of any other zanpakuto. The fact that hollow Ichigo has a page is an enigma. There can be no preferential treatment for one zanpakuto spirit unless you classify the same for the others. Zangetsu has no role outside ichigo's inner world. Even in the zanpakuto arc he doesn't engage anyone besides Ichigo. His role while important doesn't affect the outside world. Fleshing it out seems forcing the issue when its not necessary. Especially making more work when there are plenty of pages that already require attention. The article currently reflects his free outside world version via the zanpakuto arc. It doesn't correspond to the manga canon character. --Salubri (Talk)  04:07, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

I see what you mean, but my point is that there is a lot about Zangetsu that is not currently in this article, or any article for that matter. Zangetsu is as much of a character as Ichigo or anybody else is, and his actions have had just as much of an impact on the outside world as Hollow Ichigo's have. Of course more work would be involved, but that's to be expected. The only other two Zanpakuto spirits that could receive the same treatment are Hyorinmaru and Zabimaru, and we've seen both for all one minute total in canon material, so the change wouldn't be nearly as significant. The change would be no more significant than how Kiganjo's article mentions the Bount arc even though he didn't even "exist" at the time, or how any other character have filler arcs mentioned in their articles. Mohrpheus (talk) 13:50, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that Zangetsu should have his own page. Alternatively, Zangetsu could share a page with Hollow Ichigo since in Hollow Ichigo's own words he "is Zangetsu" as well, he's just an alternative personality and form for Ichigo's power. Bastian964 21:29, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

I also agree with Zangetsu getting his own article, or having canon info added to the already present one. There is too much about him that is left out on this page and would fit greatly on it's own. Hollow Ichigo isn't known to affect the outside world outside of Ichigo's involuntary transformations, so by Salubri's logic, he shouldn't have an article either. Zangetsu needs an article to address his abilities, personalities, and different appearances just like Hollow Ichigo. ---Ten Tailed Fox talk page 23:24, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

I protest! Well not really, I do think that Zangetsu Spirit page CAN be expanded. However, I don't believe in preferential treatment, if only because "exceptions" are hard to enforce. So if we do this, we have to alter the pages of Zabimaru (spirit) and Hyōrinmaru (spirit) as well. This means that the profile image of both would have to be altered to their manga animal versions not the Zanpakuto Arc human version and yes, their plot section expanded to include manga canon plot appearance. Now this does have the added advantage of us being able to take the spirit infobox and the spirits plot appearance from the respective character pages. I mean, both Hitsugaya and Renji have fairly big pages but not as big as Ichigo. Any information we can remove to curtail the page length, I think, would be beneficial. Alternatively, I am in favour of moving the Hollow Ichigo page to -> Hollow Ichigo and Zangetsu and use that page to cover both Hollow Ichigo and Zangetsu. Tinni  (Talk)  03:01, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well seeing as there are people for it lets put it like this. Mohrpheus this was your idea which I have addressed the point before. Your in charge of the Article Improvement Project the listing there is pretty large and doesn't seem to be getting smaller and adding another page that isn't gonna get touched isn't progressive. Instead of trying to make another page or add more content to a page lets worry about the pages already in need and we can come back to this concept at a later date. As anyone here as a contributor should be investing their time into the work needed on the site.--Salubri (Talk)  03:59, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Alright then. I agree that there is a lot to work to that is in more need of work than Zangetsu's article, so I'll put this off for now. I more or less just wanted to get a general concept approved; this move is a little more ambitious than other ones, so it doesn't have to be done immediately. Mohrpheus (talk) 04:34, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a particularly big contributer to this particular wikia so I'm really only going to edit things here that I'm interested in. This is the main thing that I'm interested in here. So I'll do this particular bit of improvement while the rest of you can go about doing your other duties. I would mainly like to know which option we are going to take so I can get to editing these pages. Bastian964 20:23, September 18, 2010 (UTC)

Personally I think that putting Hollow Ichigo and Zangetsu together in one article would create too much clutter and disorganization, but that's just me. It's gonna take a larger effort to tackle an article like that. I'd say wait for the time being, but I don't want this to fall onto the backburner. Mohrpheus (talk) 02:45, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

I would actually support putting Hollow Ichigo and Zangetsu on the same article. Call it something like "The spirit residing in Ichigo's conscious" or something like that and then creating three sections, one for Hollow Ichigo, one for Zanpakuto spirit which is divided into Zangetsu and Tensa Zangetsu and one for the combined form of HI and TZ. It would be alot of work but User:Bastian964 has volunteered. It does not need to be done now but I think it should be done eventually--God (Pray)  02:57, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

In that case, I suppose it can work. The introduction can describe how they "collectively embody Ichigo's spiritual power," or something like that. Mohrpheus (talk) 03:12, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Whoa your talking about making a page that doesn't fit the criteria of any page on the site, doesn't fit the manual of style or layout policy or anything. Such a thing would be a cluttered mess and largely disorganized, by placing Ichigo from main protagonist to preferential status just because we know more about his zanpakuto spirit or inner hollow then anyone elses. Im not certain how any of these ideas would work to better the site or its content. In all there is nothing distinctive about zangetsu or tensa zangetsu that can't be summed up simply in the area it already holds regardless of how long it makes the section. His interactions with them are already provided on his plot section. His Hollow ichigo page was allowed because it was a precieved threat internally and externally on multiple actions. The same can't be said of zangetsu, his role can't be claimed to be any more significant than any other zanpakuto spirit, just because we see him engaging. Anything on Ichigo's power source can be placed in a section of its own on his page along with the other stand out issues about him such as his species status and affiliation loyalty. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  04:04, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

That's why I am in favour of expanding the Zangetsu (spirit), Hyōrinmaru (spirit) and Zabimaru (spirit) pages to include manga information. We can replace the existing info boxes with... o here's a mock page showing what it would look like. The page conforms to the Bleach Wiki:Layout Guide for characters and has the added advantage that we can now remove all that spirit information from Ichigo's power section, thus shortening the section and Ichigo's page overall. In addition, we can add extra pictures like Tensa Zangetsu and hollow-zangetsu combination and other things. In addition, you can't say we don't have enough information for such a page. That mock page is already very long and we haven't even added the plot information! Tinni  (Talk)  04:28, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

PS. Just to make it clear, I support this because I believe it'll improve readability and absorption of information. Right now Ichigo's page is very off-putting and a reading of the power section will not provide the reader with the needed information on Zangetsu Spirit. For that they have to read through the plot and even then, as Zangetsu's appearance is scattered across multiple arcs, its difficult for the reader to find and process the information. I would suggest remodelling the existing Zangetsu (spirit) page and making it a general page about Zangetsu the canon manga spirit with a section about the Zanpakuto Unknown tales arc. I would suggest similar remodelling on Zabimaru (spirit) and Hyōrinmaru (spirit) as well for consistence. I have never been fond of the "spirit info box" in the power section. They way I see it, there is a certain critical mass at which point you separate out something into its own page. As soon as you can generate an info box, its time to separate it out. Alternatively, we can leave the Zangetsu (spirit) article along and just make a new page called... I don't know Zangetsu? Tinni  (Talk)  04:34, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe this idea has better merit then the previous ones discussed. Zangetsu (spirit) would be more exceptable as a page as it already exists and it can be expanded. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  04:47, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

The example page is looking pretty good so far, Tinni. However, looking at how large it is at this point, it might be better to keep it separate from Hollow Ichigo. I don't think the template would support all of the voice actors and seiyuu and whatnot, so we should just keep them as counterpart articles. The form and powers section would be even more of a nightmare. Since Zangetsu is the dominant personality in their fused form, perhaps that form should just be mentioned in his article. Mohrpheus (talk) 04:53, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that could work. The more I think of it, my idea would take WAAAAYYYY too much work. The expansion of Zangetsu's page would work fine the way Tinni is doing it--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  05:00, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Well as it turns out work has gotten quite busy since I now have an unexpectedly demanding client. So I'm going to wait until life settles down again before I can do this project. Bastian964 15:59, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Image request
Please replace the image when Ichigo and Unohana dives into the Garganta with this screenshot (I know its quality is bad because I encountered problem with those high quality videos, they don't load at all). Thanks. Apekiller96 (talk) 06:23, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

The image is of rather low quality as you said. I would wait for a higher quality image before placing it in the article--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  06:28, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I've just replaced it. Apekiller96 (talk) 06:30, September 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * The image has been added to the article. 09:03, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Mugetsu
Can we have a pic of Mugetsu (The technique) on Ichigo's article? Shiro Spiker II (talk) 09:03, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

The image has been added to the article.--<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  09:12, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

spiritual power
Should Ichigo's spiritual power section be changed since he explained the reason that neither Aizen nor Tatsuki could feel any reiatsu at all.

Since he evolved in another dimension from other shinigami he became a three-dimensional being. A two-dimensional being cannot touch a three-dimensional being. Thus neither human nor shinigami can feel his reiatsu at his current level.Light sage96 (talk) 04:03, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

That was Aizen talking, not Ichigo who said that.--<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  04:12, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

I thought so too until i realized that everybody can feel Aizen's reiatsu, yet nobody can sence ichigo's. Tatsuki said she felt enormus power from Aizen yet none from Ichigo. How is that possible if Aizen said that and not ichigo.Light sage96 (talk) 23:38, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

The entire page is largely ambiguous to who is talking the words are grandiose and use the terms dimension and evolution which appears in only Aizen's language. Ichigo doesn't remotely speak this way. Either way the words make no sense. We will wait for JU-NI translations before making a decision. We have to understand what is being talked about before information can be placed.--<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  23:47, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

durability
yeah shouldnt ichigos durability be updated with the lates chapter information of him taking one of aizens energy blasts cause i think theres enough information to update it by now, any anyway a leave it up to you.Peinuchiha (talk) 02:12, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Issue fixed. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  07:41, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

What is he?
Since it doesn't look like Ichigo is a soul reaper anymore, should we call him a regular human or otherwise?-Hockey Machete (talk) 22:49, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

When we have confirmation that his powers are gone we will list him as a human who once had shinigami powers. Right now I don't think it is clear if he truly lost his powers.--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  22:51, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

You think so? Ichigo did say he felt his powers fading away.-Hockey Machete (talk) 22:52, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Fading, as in the process of doing. We can't classify him as an ordinary Human until we know his powers are completely gone. Technical yes, but there is no need to jump on this so fast. Mohrpheus (talk) 22:54, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

exactly, we don't know if he has lost his powers entirely, because look at isshin, he has obviously used it before and has regained his powers, how else would he know about it, and if he is without his shinigami powers, we don't know if that includes his hollow powers as well.Cmcwiki (talk) 22:59, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Good point. If Ichigo's powers disspear. my guess is he'll either has new powers transferred to him by Isshin or Rukia again or some other soul reaper or he will regain his in the ambigious way Isshin did,-Hockey Machete (talk) 23:02, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

OK calm down, nobody said Isshin had used the Final Getsuga Tensho and that it caused him to lose his powers. Until we have a confirmation for that, the reason for Isshin's power loss will remain unknown. As for Ichigo, Mohrpheus already answered to that, he said his powers were fading, not that they had completely disappeared yet, so until we know he has lost all of them for sure, we can't make the change. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  23:05, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

If you say so. BTW:I did say the way Isshin regained his power WAS ambigious..-Hockey Machete (talk) 23:07, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Lose of shinigami powers
Since the latest manga episode we know that he has lost the shinigami powers, as stated by himself. So is his status changed or we need to wait untill the next chapter? Lure.d (talk) 23:16, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Uh..might wanna look above at the last discussion,pal.-Hockey Machete (talk) 23:26, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Bankai: Tensa Zangetsu


Can we have an image of Ichigo's new Tensa Zangetsu? It has no handle and has a somewhat different look than the normal Tensa Zangetsu plus the fact that Ichigo's hand is connected to his Zanpaktou. He isn't holding the blade anymore, his hand is literally part of his Zanpaktou. by: Moonlesss Sky (talk) 21:23, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

I would not be opposed to adding an image of his post Dangai Zanpakutō to his article but the one you have lacks proper licensing. It is listed as a free image which is not the case. Also, we do not know that his hand is part of his Zanpakutō. For all we know it is a glove. That will not be listed if it is added.--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  21:28, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, well thanks anyway. by:Moonlesss Sky (talk) 21:32, September 19, 2010 (UTC)

Okay so I corrected the licensing so I guess it is now alright to add this image to the article. I think we should include both the current and this image of his Bankai, titling them as "Original Bankai Form" and "Post-Jinzen Training Form" so people know which came first and what it now appears as. Prophet of Sanghelios (talk) 09:20, September 22, 2010 (UTC)