Forum:Filler and Bleach Wiki

I have a really big problem with the fact that Bleach Wikia does not make any distinction between canon material and anime filler/videogame characters. I really think it should be noted in all articles relating to filler characters (Patros, Amagai, Seigen Suzunami, etc) that the characters are not part of the manga canon. This is the single biggest thing that people site as a reason why Bleach Wikia should not be considered a valid and trustworthy source for Bleach facts. I would think that keeping this wiki as factual and helpful as possible would include letting people know which characters are canon and which are not. This distiction must be made if you want informed Bleach fans to take this site seriously. CorpusDei 22:58, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

It is noted. Each article says something like, "Appears in: Anime Only" and each character is in a category that says the same thing, that they're anime-only characters. If you're looking for reasons to be insulting, you should at least pick a valid one. Or, you should contribute more and help be a part of the solution. Twocents 23:02, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

I really don't think that a tiny blurb at the bottom of the right hand table is sufficient. People who have no idea what is canon and what isn't probably wont notice it, and for someone new to Bleach, it could be quite confusing. In my opinion, it should be made abundantly clear that these character are filler, and that they have no bearing on the canon story of Bleach. And I wasn't trying to be insulting, I'm just letting you know how quite a few people view the reliability of the information on this site. If you want to get defensive about the flaws in the site, whatever, do whatever you want. CorpusDei 21:30, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

It's pretty sad (yet somehow unsurprising) that no admins or mods have bothered to fix this. The fact that you guys refuse to acknowledge when things are filler in a staraight forward way (instead hiding the information in the character info box on the right side of the page in tiny letters) is still the most blatant problem on this site. There is a template already in place for use in this situation, here: http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Filler. That message should be placed at the top of every non-manga or non-canon piece of information (anime only and videogame only characters and info) on here, it really wouldn't take that much time to do. I would be willing to go through every page and do it myself, but I have a suspicion that if I did that, someone would just go back and delete the message. I'm going to do it to a few pages now, and see if the mods will leave it, before I go through and do it to every page that needs it. CorpusDei 00:19, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Ummm... not that I am against this but is this really necessary? We already have those things listed under the category of anime/game/movie only. Are people really that dumb that they can't deduce from that this is not manga based? Also, if people really are that dumb then adding that template is not going to help. Not that I am against it. I just think this is a waste of time and effort. If people don't get it based on the information that is already associated with those pages, they aren't going to get it. Tinni 00:24, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Well Corpus Dei has already added this to Shusukes page. I'm not against it, but as an anime watcher & the fact that I don't really follow the manga, I really won't help with this. If Corpus wants to do this either by himself he can just as long as he doesn't make any serious changes to the page. Minato88 00:29, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Well as I said, I am not against it, but I am not willing to spend time on this either. Tinni 00:39, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

I have been adding to the intro of filler characters that they are anime-only, but that is a work in progress (one of many). They are also categorized as such, as well as the info box. If there are any pages that do not have this on them, please post them below in a new heading. Also, all the admins here agree that manga comes before anime, and that the fillers are unreliable not the best sources. You may have noticed the Zanpkuto spirits all have their own individual pages, rather than being made part of the canon character's articles. Also, canon characters that have a role in an anime-only arc have that arc listed as being anime-only in the synopsis. Also, each of the episode pages has in the statistics section a note of what chapters the episode covers, and for filler episodes, states that none were used. --Yyp 00:57, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * I am sorry but I object to the use of the phrase "unreliable as sources". I mean, filler are just that, filler and as such information that is exclusively presented in filler anime should not be part of character profiles without explicitly being distinguished as such. However, "unreliable as sources" cast a doubt on all anime episodes, even those that are based of the manga. Often the anime episodes clarify points of contention that were left vague/considered to have been left vague by fans. For example, anime episode 215 clarified for me that the hollow that were chasing that little ghost girl was killed from the spiritual pressure of all the captains. I was a bit confused as to what was going on when I read that scene in the manga. There is no reason that an anime episode that makes a point explicit that the manga left in doubt is "unreliable". I think this bashing of the anime is gone far enough. The manga comes first but the anime isn't fanon is it but I feel that it is being dismissed as such. The anime is still a legitimate official source and should be treated as such were appropriate. Tinni 01:14, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * I did not say that the anime as a whole is unreliable. And I do not typically indulge in anime bashing. The anime is vital for clarifying many details from the manga and we use it for quite a lot. I am not saying an anime episode that makes a point explicit that the manga left in doubt is unreliable. Far from it. What I meant (and perhaps I could have been clearer) was that things like Sasakibe's zanpakuto spirit being lighting based is not allowed on to Sasakibes page. Instances like that, not the simple animation of the canon manga storyline. --Yyp 01:28, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with you in that things that appear in the filler only should not be drawn into the characters profiles that are manga based. But I still object to the use of the world "unreliable" it has connotation that are really not what we are discussing. Tinni 01:38, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed. Use of "unreliable" withdrawn. --Yyp 01:48, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

But the problem is that even anime episodes based on manga chapters can be tainted with non-canon material. For instance, every anime episode that features the mod souls from the bount arc. A good example are the episodes where Isshin was revealed to be a shinigami and fought Grand Fisher. In the anime, the fact that the mod souls were there taints the canon-ness of the anime episodes, since the mod souls don't even exist in the manga universe. It's not that we're bashing the anime, it's fun and I enjoy it, but it isn't strictly canon, only the manga is. And while i agree that in certain instances the anime does help to clarify certain things that might have been confusing in the manga (a good example being the one you mentioned), for the most part the anime shouldn't be considered canon, even the epsidoes that are based on the manga. Also, Yyp said "the fillers are unreliable as sources", and that is 100% accurate, otherwise we'd be faced with huge problems deciding what is and isn;t legitimate. Filler is never canon, and as such is inherently unreliable as a source. CorpusDei 01:24, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * No what Yyp was was not accurate, the manga takes precedence but what happens in the anime is 100% reliable in the context of the anime. My problem is that you are implying that the anime is little more then fanfiction, which is an insult to every fan of bleach who watches the anime only because it implies that they are somehow getting an inferior version of Bleach. I am ware that the mod souls from the bount filler arc have hung around and I am also aware that Omaeda's fight was longer in the anime as fight usually are. Even Ichimaru and Hitsugaya's fight way, way back in SS was padded in the anime. I am all in favour of making it clear what only occured in the anime and I totally support powers and abilities that only appear in filler material be kept out of character profiles. However, I vehemently object to the anime being referred to and treated as if it's a speculative piece of fanfiction that has no official standing. As far as the anime only Bleach fans are concerned, anime is the only canon! I would hate for this wiki to give the impression that the only fans we care about are the manga fans and treat anime only bleach fans and their primary source of bleach with disrespect and bashing. My problem is with the attitude pervading this discussion. Tinni 01:38, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * We can't base our core canon on more than one source, especially when the anime and manga differ so much on so many things. I'm not trying to say that the anime is worthless, but the fact is that the core canon of Bleach is the manga, and when the anime diverges from the manga in any significant way, the anime becomes less reliable for that specific piece of information. CorpusDei 01:50, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * I would also like to point out that not everything in the new Anime Filer arc has been strictly Filler. There was the flashback when Toshiro first met Rangiku, saw Hyorinmaru, & was convinced to become a Shinigami. This is something that happened in the manga(or so i'm told) & is very much Canon. So I would like to ask that u guys are CAREFUL with what u CHANGE. Minato88 01:27, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * You are correct, that scene was from a manga one-off chapter, it was chapter -15 "Death in a Field of Ice". Trust me, I've read all of the chapters multiple times, I know what parts of the anime are canon. I'm not trying to make this into "the anime is bad", since the anime is what got me into Bleach and I still watch it religiously, I'm just trying to clarify what is and isn't filler in an attempt to help this wiki become the most reliable source for information on Bleach in the world. CorpusDei 01:51, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

OK guys, I've gone ahead and added a text blurb at the top of a few characters pages (all of the anime only charcers that start with A) that explicitly states that the characters are filler. I got it from an already existing template here: http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Filler. I am willing to go through all of the character pages and do this, as long as you guys are cool with it. I also filled out the page for the word filler, which already existed but was blank, here: http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Filler. It includes links to the "Anime only characters" and "Movie only characters" pages, and Yyp just created a "videogame only characters" page that I will add shortly. If anyone can figure out how to make the links to the "* only charcters" pages text-only links (so that the whole link doesn't have to be shown), that would be great, it seems that since they're "category" pages and not normal pages, the wiki wont allow me to make the text only links in the "internal link that shows different text" method suggested in the wiki help page. Anyway, once I get a feel for if you guys are down to let me put the filler blurb on the rest of the filler characters pages, I will get the rest of them done. Thanks. CorpusDei 01:33, November 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have a question? Is the only thing u are doing is adding the blurb, cause if thats the case I am cool with anything u do. Most users who are so adament about Anime Filler usually want the whole section eith downsized removed from the Link pages or sometimes just plain deleted. Minato88 01:38, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, all I want to do is make it clear at the beginning of the article that the information being presented on the page is based on filler (whether it be anime only, movie only, or videogame based), using the blurb. I do not intend on changing the body or text of any of the articles. The only thing I want to do is make it clear for readers from the beginning that the article isn't based on the manga canon. I don't want to downsize any of the articles or remove info from them, since they are legitimate information about characters and scenes in the Bleach universe, albeit non canon ones. CorpusDei 01:47, November 4, 2009 (UTC)