Forum:Zanpakuto Questions

This thread is for asking any questions or seeking clarity on any doubts you may have about Zanpakuto.

Can Nemu have a working Zanpakuto?
Along these same lines, then, do you think Nemu would have a Zanpakuto in the same sense as all of the other Shinigami? Because unlike them, she is an artificial entity, as noted by Tite himself, so do you think she'd even have a soul of her own, and if so, have part of it sealed into a Zanpakuto? It's something I've been pondering for a bit. Twocents 05:02, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah Nemu has a soul. Or more accurately Nemu IS a soul. Thats true of any constructed soul, artificial soul, or mod soul. I have never seen it called into question that these beings are true souls. Mod souls (and Bounts for that matter) may have been treated like tools to be disposed of or ordered destroyed to hide the shameful doings of superiors but they are still souls. And since Nemu seems to have been derived from similar technologies I think that she is equally ensouled.

But can she generate a Zanpakuto? Thats a good question. I would say yes simply because everyone else seems to have one and nobody has ever noted that Nemu is different in that regard. It might be something innocuous or maybe Mayuri forbids her from wielding it without permission. Plus I could see it as a point of pride for Mayuri to make sure his future lieutenant is as capable as possible even to the point of having a Zanpakuto. It would be a weakness in his creation if she couldn't do that! Great Cthulhu 07:38, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know how canonical this is, but in the picture of all the current lieutenants (plus Kaien) shown on the Gotei 13 page she clearly has one. TomServo101 14:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Ganju Shinigami ?/ Zanpakuto?
Ganju has a zanpaktou?!?! where was mentioned?? I thought it was just some random sword he was carring around--Cyberflame 22:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought so too. But according to our dear fellow Bleach fans, it's his Zanpakuto. It does sort of resemble one doesn't it? Also, is he a Shinigami? o.O Akami.40 16:54, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

One can assume, seeing as he came from a noble house, and his older brother was one. Plus, we don't see anyone else carrying around a sword randomly, so it's likely a zanpakuto One eye 18:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

You cant be considered a shinigami unless you were trained as one and belong to the military and perform their duties. Seeing as he hates shinigami it would seem that he is not one. While a former noble house memeber he would be considered a soul. Though he does have some form of powers but i dont think that counts against any soul before they were to become a shinigami. Also it may or may not be a zanpakuto. I seriously doubt he has an inner spirit to talk to or subjigate and he has been in countless fights during the soul society arc and never really used it or released it so it can't be a real zanpakuto. Think of the kusomaoji family they made weapons as a specaialty. I dont know why they would in soul society who needs weapons besides shinigami but in any case it could be just something he has as a regular weapon.TeamBleach2 13:49, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

LAst i checked he had one.Time to go look up chaps for it.Saimaroimaru 19:13, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess we may know it if he participated in the war against aizen.Frostymoon

It's not just shinigami who have zanpakutou, someone (Yoruichi, Urahara, can't remember) says that some in Rukongai have them. Anyway, Ganju's is abut a foot long and sucks, so it doesn't really matter.

According to her page, Kukaku also has a Zanpakuto... has this ever been explicitly stated? Only Shinigami have ever referred to their swords as Zanpakuto, but is it possible to have one without being a Shinigami? Kukaku and Ganju are just souls right? And we know that souls can become Shinigami 'coz Rukia, Renji, Zaraki did etc. (actually that raises a further point - Zaraki has been shown to be carrying around his released Zanpakuto since before he joined the Shinigami, so it would appear that Zanpakuto can be released without being a Shinigami, but since he never learned the name of his he's something of a special case) so it would seem that all souls have, at the least, the POTENTIAL to have Zanpakuto... maybe they can have them but just not release them. Snappydog 11:47, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

you can also see in the single chapter that tells about toshiro's beggining, he wasn't a shinigami yet but he still had a zanpaktou soul with out even having a sword. so i think the whole mythology of zanpaktou can be fuzzy with the little info we have. Shillagan 06:59, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, opening a discussion, but at least it's simple for my first time.

A thought was presented to me and I have reason to disagree with it as it is almost entirely speculation on zanpakuou, hell even then the only evidence is the name meaning Soul cutter.

For some unknown reason people have determined others outside of shinigami at having Zanpakuto, simply because they have been seen with some form of blade or another. This is not determine that it is a zanpakuto it could simply be a blade. Outside the seireitei can be a dangerous place. Regardless of Shinigami who come from outside of Seireitei there has not been one manga based character who has shown the ability to use one in shikai before formally becoming a shinigami, least of all Kenpachi zaraki, as in everything he is a special case. By virtue of his spiritual power he was a shinigami. Kukaku and Ganju are for all purposes souls, souls from noble lineage so higher then common souls and possessing of unique ability such as magic and kido and various skills but not necessary shinigami abilities or duties that would otherwise classify them as one. Also it was Toshiro's connection with a zanpakuto spirit that made him go to the academy to becoming a shinigami, he had no zanpakuto before doing so regardless of his interaction with the spirit, so that still doesn't equate to anything discussed here other then to say that one must be a shinigami and have the connection with a zanpakuto spirit to eventually develop a zanpakuto, though it is determined without proper training communication which is key is impossible to use or develop control over ones spiritual power.Salubri (Talk)  11:48, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Yes but you also have to remember that Ikkaku and Yumichika both had zanpakuto in Rukongai and they never went to the shinigami academy so thats proof that if you have high spiritual power then you can get a zanpakuto without going to the academy as for ganju and kukaku the swords that they carry might be their zanpakuto but its never been stated.I also remember kukaku using kido and the only other people that we have seen that can use kido are the shinigami.GrimGhost 19:10, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Simply put Kukaku and Ganju are not Shinigami they are never stated to be Shinigami they are never said to have Zanpakuto and every weapon is not a zanpakuto. Except those exiled not one is shown to reside outside the Seireitei. Regardless of Zaraki or Ikkaku having weapons we also need to recall the only one with shikai before coming a Gotei 13 is Zaraki. Ikkaku just shows a sealed sword. Its not said that one cannot be a Shinigami without going to the Academy, obviously before the existence of the Academy they became Shinigami some way by skill. But in the current time one cannot advance without structure from the academy. Point being only Shinigami have zanpakuto, Ganju by own admission hates Shinigami, he and his sister are therefore not Shinigami as he doesn't classify himself as one and speaks of them as entirely seperate. We know little to nothing about Kido and who knows what regarding its use. We do know Shiba family used to be a noble family, so suffice to say with a great amount of spiritual energy innately they obviously have knowledge of the skills required by use of the military of soul society as all noble families are involved in the operations of soul society to some level. Its not unlikely that they would possess skills of this level. Not to mention we dont know what Ikkaku and Yumichika did as far as their background that was never established. Salubri (Talk)  20:47, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

hi salubri.. just wanted to clear your point. what you're saying is that you can't be a shinigami without entering the academy therefore you cannot have a zanpakuto withouth entering the academy first, am I right?

No basically what Im saying is, is that at one point in time before the Academy existed there was obviously a set of circumstances which allowed one to be a Shinigami. A Shinigami is a soul who possesses supernatural powers by way of having high spiritual power. The duties of a shinigami go along with that purifying hollows, sending pluses on soul burial and regulating souls that enter soul society. One first gains entry into the academy because of the potential spiritual power or any reason one would go to school. One can attain contact with zanpakuto spirit without being a shinigami but one does not become a shinigmai without understanding the fundamentals of spiritual pressure control, communication with ones zanpakuto and the like. Its a hard question to speak of zaraki as he has a constant release zanpakuto its in shikai permanently because of the level of his spiritual power not because he has had any communication with his zanpakuto spirit. In all you aren't considered a Shinigami unless you pass the academy or through some form of criteria to meet those standards. Zaraki has always been a special case and no one disputes him being a shinigami just that he hadnt attained it in civilized and conventual way thats currently practiced. There is reason to believe that those who attain a zanpakuto are not uncommon but they are just sealed swords, nameless. Ganju doesn't meet any criteria, doesn't associate or even like shinigami and is different in most respects it is not uncommon for souls to carry regular weapons. Not every weapon has to be a zanpakuto.Salubri (Talk)  04:20, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

I won't bother reading any of the previous discussions since Salubri's posts are always too long and boring but the bottom line should be that no one knows if Ganju's and Kukaku's swords are zanpakutos. Just because they look like the swords shingamis use does not make them a zanpakuto. Anyone saying that their swords are zanpakuto is just offering speculation and this site supposedly doesnt allow that on its articles so clearly their articles have to be fixed so that it is clear than whether or not their swords are zanpakuto is currently unknown. Benihime101 04:11, May 20, 2010 (UTC)

Does a shikai have a required "sharp or pointy" cutting piece?
Any kind of spike or blade I mean. It is true we've yet to see anyone, except filler and a movie, that didn't have some spike or blade or stabby points on their shikai release state. However as a bleach community I am curious whether a majority believe that Zanpakutou must have some form of sharp edge on them. Fensake 04:15, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Nope. Look at Retsu Unohana's shikai, it's a flying mantary and as far as I can tell, no "sharp or pointy" part (though I am not sure if it has teeth or not). As for do all Zanpakutou need a sharp edge to them, I think not. Not entirely sure, but I assume that the staff Tessai has in the TBTP arc is his zanpakutou. For Ganju's sword, I always assumed it was his brother's (Kaien's) sword. I don't know why I have always thought this.Genbu noryb 04:57, February 20, 2010 (UTC)genbu noryb

Can Madarame Ikakku's zanpakuto be considered a "Dual-Blade Type"?
Ok, obviously other than the fact that Hozukimaru has 3 sections, and is a three-section staff in shikai form, but what about his bankai Ryumon Hozukimaru?

Originally, when this "special" type was mentioned by Yamamoto, he specifically stated that the only two in Soul Society were Ukitake and Kyoraku. But only Kyoraku's is two separate swords in sealed and released forms. Ukitake's is one in sealed form, and connected by a rope when released. Then recently we have the appearance of Hisagi's zanpakuto, which is a katana in sealed form, and while not two swords specifically, are two separate kusarigama connected by a chain. On this wiki already, Kazeshini has been classified as such, but is it correct?

My guesses are: (1) the "Dual-Blade Type" literally means two blades, and one per hand. Because if we're being ridiculously technical, Kazeshini has 4 blades and wouldn't qualify; so with this logic, then Ryumon Hozukimaru with 3 blades wouldn't qualify either. (2) the zanpakuto has to be two (bladed?) weapons in both shikai and bankai form, but this can't be confimed unless/until Ukitake's bankai is also revealed to be "dual-bladed". So unless there are other multi-sectioned weapons that I am currently forgetting, these are my conclusions. Your thoughts?

Simply put only considered so in shikai, not bankai that would be unnecessary for classification. Initial release is followed as the criteria for it as shikai is considered the true form of the sword. Bankai is the final release where the zanpakuto spirit is brought out in the physical world. No point in trying to pick the concept apart Yamamoto stated this while they were in shikai. As for Hisagi its of course debatable but Kubo doesn't have things predetermined he comes up with them as he creates it so using the fact of what Yama said in the soul society arc to determine something not developed till the fake karakura town arc isn't a viable argument. so there is a case that Hisagi's classifies because of two "weapons" rather then one blade two blade concept that the criteria could also mean. But no that is not determined by bankai that wont change on this site so talking about it would be a waste. No Ikkaku doesn't figure in to that connection a three-sectioned staff is hozikimaru's true form that doesn't classify as a dual-type there is nothing remotely dual about it. Its a staff with more attack versatility but thats about it. Salubri (Talk)  11:34, March 16, 2010 (UTC)