Talk:Reiryoku

Captain Level
This page describes users with Great Spiritual Power as having captain level spiritual power. However, out of all captains that we know of, both past and present, only Sui-Feng and Mayuri Kurotsuchi have this level of spiritual power. That's out of about 20 captains, the rest having Immense Spiritual Power. Does it categorize this level of power as such in one of the databooks, or is there another reason? Xilinoc (talk) 04:55, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the Visored Captains, I suppose it's because of their Hollow powers; Great Spiritual Power on its own + significant boost from the Hollow reiatsu = Immense. Some of the non-Visored Captains are clearly that strong on their own, but I'm not sure about several others.

Also, I'm dumbfounded by the fact that Hiyori, Lisa, Hachi and Mashiro are all listed as having Immense Reiatsu. One could've expected that since they're all former Lieutenants (High Spiritual Power), with Visored augmentation they would be perfect candidates for the "Great" designation, but apparently their power is substantially higher than average Captain level now...

P.S. Don't forget Chojiro Sasakibe, he's got Great Reiatsu as well!

 Lord Galvatron  -- Do you hear the voices too? 12:35, November 19, 2012 (UTC)

That may be so, but that still leaves about 13 captains who naturally have Immense Spiritual Power. Xilinoc (talk) 00:05, November 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Looking back over some of the character articles the spiritual power is overblown. Addressing this the power levels have been changed to better reflect what is known about the power of each individual captain/captain-level character in question. Hopefully that helps. Also the Great is used as general captain-class level while immense is still captain-class but a more advanced form and high is considered lieutenant-level. We use these as a simple means of categorizing the power levels of individual characters in the series.--


 * That's very helpful, indeed. One final question, however. In the list of spiritual power levels, average (unseated officers, low ranking officers, etc.) is written like it should be on the list, but is instead the header of the list. Should we change that? Xilinoc (talk) 12:26, November 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for considering our opinions :) The new designations make much more sense from an objective point of view. And yes, I also wonder about the "average power", I think it should be in a separate cell, not in the header.  Lord Galvatron  -- Do you hear the voices too? 13:19, November 20, 2012 (UTC)


 * That somehow escaped my notice all this time, it is now fixed, thanks for the heads up.--

Sensing Reiryoku
Shouldn't there be a level range for spiritual awareness; high, great, immense, enhanced, and so on. Some characters like the Quincies are very adept in sensing spiritual energy like Uryu. Other characters like Yuzu only have slight abilities. Steveo920, 17:15, January 5, 2013

Addition to the Classification
Shouldn't there be another spiritual power level that's below High but above just Average? For characters like Orihime and Hanataro, just putting them on the same level as humans like Tatsuki and Keigo seems inaccurate. Also, characters like Ganju shouldn't be put on high when their spiritual power level isn't anywhere near a lieutenants. Can someone please tell me if you think this is possible? Thank you (Himelover567 (talk) 06:45, July 19, 2013 (UTC))


 * If anything there should be a level thats lower as "spiritual power" is the average classification. Even still I wouldnt call orihime and hantaro higher then average there is no justification that change and true enough Ganju isnt lieutenant level.--

Do you think you could add that lower level then because it would make more sense to put humans like Keigo and Mizuiro in that category? Also, Orihime's spiritual power has been stated by Mila Rose to be quite something so there is that to prove that she is above average. However, I understand that it isn't enough to justify her having High spiritual power unless she shows us some feats. Anyway, if you think it's a good idea to add another level, please do. I would really appreciate it. Thanks (Himelover567 (talk) 10:43, July 19, 2013 (UTC))

Revamping the power level system
I believe the current system we are using is inadequate as of this moment, seeing the power creep we have witnessed. I also disagree with certain Reiryoku ratings for some characters, such as most Sternritter being listed at Great while they effortlessly pwn captains who are listed at Immense. But a bigger issue is that we might need another level or two to accomodate some of the most powerful characters. The system we have is starting to become not descriptive enough. I think we could call them "Tremendous" and "Gargantuan". Based on what we have seen in the manga, I would suggest the following classification:

Great (Average Captain level)

Sui-Feng, Gin, Rose, Shinji, Byakuya (pre-RG training, at least), Komamura, Love, Kensei, Tosen, Hitsugaya, Kurotsuchi, Rukia, Espada 9-5

Immense (Senior Captain Level)

Most Sternritter, Espada 4-0, Unohana, Renji, Shunsui, Urahara, Ukitake

Tremendous (Top Captain Level)

Royal Guards, Kenpachi, Haschwalth, Aizen, Isshin (I presume Ichigo and Byakuya will be there as well now, but that's speculation)

Gargantuan (Final Boss Level)

Yamamoto, Yhwach (Final Fusion Aizen and Post-Dangai Ichigo as well, I believe).

The main point is: Most Espada are listed at "Immense", yet they were a fairly manageable threat in their own time. Quite unlike the Sternritters, who pwn Captains left and right, yet are listed only at "Great". This should be changed in favor of the Sternritter even now. Also, adopting a system with more tiers like I just proposed would allow to better demonstrate the difference in power between certain captain-class fighters. Please discuss! Xfing (talk) 20:12, March 9, 2014 (UTC)


 * Yea thats not gonna work the current level is just fine, where not doing DBZ power levels. upping the level because certain people are of the opinion that characters have ridiculously high levels. Everything you put up here is based on point of view and doesn't leave room for the situation or particular circumstances already listed on the character pages that determine the level of a character. I see the same type of levels used on fan fiction pages and thus they arent required here.--

Reimyaku and The Hell Verse
Now that we've got this worked in would it be appropriate to mention the effect that Hell had on Ichigo's Hollowfication in Bleach: The Hell Verse? It's canon equivalent would be the case with Chad. The atmosphere of Hueco Mundo drew out Chad's powers. The atmosphere of Hell likewise drew out Ichigo's Hollow powers. Something along the lines of: Bleach: The Hell Verse establishes that a location's atmosphere can likewise have negative side effects. Hell dangerously affected Ichigo Kurosaki's Hollowfication, making it difficult for him to control, and ultimately causing a resurgence of his uncontrolled Hollow form. Thoughts? Kenji-Taichō (Talk)  19:14, February 24, 2020 (UTC)

A New Power Level
This has been discussed here before, apparently shortly after the Ichigo vs. Aizen fight, with regards to adding "Transcendental" as a new category/classification, but it's come to light after a discussion with Timjer that not all characters classified as having Immense Spiritual Power are equal - Urahara is not on the level of Yhwach, for example. Rather than move certain characters a rank down to Great Spiritual Power, which I feel would be inaccurate in most cases, I'm instead proposing we create one more rank above Immense to use for the top-tier big guys - Ichigo, Kenpachi, Aizen, Yhwach, Yamamoto, and others. Right now, I'm thinking of calling it either Colossal Spiritual Power or Monstrous Spiritual Power, both of which have different benefits and connotations, so I'd love to hear what others think.--Xilinoc (talk) 02:15, May 19, 2020 (UTC)


 * I think most people realise that I dont give a damn about power levels and dont get involved with those discussions as they are nothing but a sideshow in Bleach. So all I'll say is that if there is to be a change, the name needs work. Monstrous in a series with monsters (Hollow/Arrancar) might not be the best word to use. Likewise transcendent and overwhelming have connotations which limit their use. Colossal kind of sounds too much like a fanboys description of their favourite character's power level for me, but is better than the others Ive seen proposed on the thread and here. Might also consider prodigious or exceptional (my personal preference). Actually prodigious might get linked to Hitsugaya too much, so yeah, colossal or preferrably exceptional. 13:28, May 19, 2020 (UTC)


 * "Exceptional" doesn't sound too bad either. Either that or "Colossal" seem to be the best options we have, though I wouldn't mind bringing "Vast" back just for this... I'll see if I can find some better options, though. P.S.: I didn't know you don't care about power levels, Yyp, but the suggestion is merely there to avoid confusing newcomers, as all characters stronger than the average captain are listed as "Immense", no matter how big or small the difference is. Timjer (talk) 13:34, May 19, 2020 (UTC)


 * I've found some more synonyms for "extra large" here; my favorites I found there would be "Tremendous", "Enormous", or "Titanic".Timjer (talk) 13:38, May 19, 2020 (UTC)

This is coming from a user with a background in fan-fiction. The terms used have always felt too fan-like to me. Using terms like "Great" and "Immense" is all well and good, but you always have someone who thinks that their favourite character should be labelled alike to the others. I feel something that's actually citable would be better. So, rather than a new term, here's my two cents.

You could go with a larger departure and use an entirely new system, one which could actually be cited more easily. The terms I'm suggesting are Seated officer class, Lieutenant class, and Captain class for Shinigami. Someone like Ichigo is stated to be Captain-class even whilst battle-worn, whilst characters like Chōjirō Sasakibe and Ikkaku Madarame are noted to have Captain-level ability. The benefit? Lieutenant-level and Captain-level are terms used in the manga, especially around the SS arc, and continue to be mentioned later, albeit less regularly. The Espada, meanwhile, would use the same Captain-class designation as the Shinigami. I'm fairly sure its mentioned in the manga that the Espada as a group rivals that of the Gotei 13's Captain's. The Fraccion and Numeros all seem to be around Lieutenant-level as well judging by the battles in FKT, so Lieutenant-class could be applied to them as well.

In practice, it would look like this:

Captain-class Spiritual Energy: Byakuya, in addition to his rank in the Gotei 13, is stated by Ganju Shiba to be the strongest leader in the history of the Kuchiki clan. He can exert an immense amount of reiatsu, over large distances, and it has the tendency to make people perspire in fear.

Now, this works for instances of the above. For those like Ichigo and Aizen, a simple Beyond Captain-class would probably suffice. Just a thought. Kenji-Taichō (Talk)  21:14, May 19, 2020 (UTC)