User talk:Minato88

Welcome
Hi, welcome to Bleach Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Bleach Wiki:Featured Article page.

Here's a wiki tip for you -- you can sign your name on talk/discussion pages by typing ~ which automatically adds your signature and the date.

Check out Help:Contents for more tricks. Also, remember that a wiki is a community, and that you'll almost always find someone to help you if you're having problems. Don't hesitate to ask for help! ;)

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Arrancar109 (Talk) 23:23, September 29, 2009

You said you were confused about Tousen's Resurrecion?
It turns out that Grillar is a Catalan word, part of a language mostly spoken in and around the Pyrenees Mountains.

grillar [greel-lyar’] verb neuter: 1. To chirp or squeak (grillo). (n) verb reflexive: 2. To shoot, to sprout.

any idea what the deal is about his resurreccion? i mean he's a soul reaper so he should only have a mask.Soul reaper magnum 02:30, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

At your request (and to supplement the good start Soul reaper magnum gave you above), I happened to, in my excitement over this chapter's events, have focused much attention on these questions. First off, you do seem indeed correct yourself, Minato, that "Suzumushi Hyakushiki" is just like saying "Suzumushi Tsuishiki" before unleashing his Bankai. Here's the breakdown:

清虫百式: 狂枷蟋蟀 (グリジャル・グリージョ)

Suzumushi Hyakushiki: Gurijaru Gurījo

"Suzumushi Hundred Style: Grillar Grillo"

Suzumushi (lit. "bell worm/bug") is Japanese for the insect native there which we call the "bell cricket." Grillar Grillo is Spanish for "chiming/chirping cricket," whereas its underlying kanji (as occur also with all Arrancar Zanpakutou) mean "crazed/mad shackle(s)/bond(s) cricket"; in fact, the "crazed/mad" kanji 狂 also occurs in Katen Kyou kotsu, and the "cricket" part, 蟋蟀, is koorogi, same as in Enma Koorogi.

Grillo is traced to Latin gryllus, from Greek grúllos, "a cricket, grasshopper"; grillar from Latin gryllāre, grillāre, "to (make the sound of a) cricket, chirp," a verb derived from this noun. The Royal Academy of Spanish even cites that grillar is sometimes used as a synonym for cantar, "to sing," as well as "to (produce) sound(s)" in general. It's also worth noting that whereas most times, Resurrección (帰刃 (レスレクシオン) Resurekushion) has the underlying kanji "return blade," when Tousen says "Resurrección" in this ch. 385, the underlying kanji are "sword release" (刀剣解放 (レスレクシオン))--exactly as they were in the underlying kanji of Ulquiorra's Resurrección (Segunda Etapa)!

As far as how Tousen can perform Resurrección, nothing concrete and canon is known for sure so far. But it has inspired me to wonder, and here's my theory (though this is all conjecture--and so can't be used in any actual article--I hope you like it):

A Plus > a Hollow by losing their hearts and being consumed by the dark side of their soul. Without a heart, they cannot manifest a Zanpakutou (a "sword of the heart/soul"), so they may only gain power by cannibalizing other Hollows--but they cannot regain the ability to get a true Zanpakutou. If the Hollow > an Arrancar, they regain some rationality, and they can seal their natural Hollow powers into a kind of "fake Zanpakutou" (i.e. without a soul like old man Zangetsu actually in it) when they don't want to use these powers. When they do want to use their true form and its powers, they perform Resurrección.

However, if a Plus > a Shinigami, they keep their heart and can manifest a Zanpakutou, then advance (if strong enough) from Shikai to Bankai.

The Visored are the second type, so they can keep their hearts--and so use Shikai and Bankai of a true Zanpakutou--as well as, thanks to being half-Hollowfied by Aizen's trickery, use a mask and some Hollow powers. However, as they told Ichigo, they can wield their Hollow powers without losing to their inner Hollows because they suppress their inner Hollows, "crushing them down into their souls." Thus, they may, as a result of the suppression, be using only the tip of the iceberg in terms of their Hollow potential.

Now we come to Tousen, apparently made a true/perfect hybrid by exposure to the Hougyoku. He could be called a "super-Visored." In him, we may be seeing what would happen if a Visored, instead of suppressing their inner Hollow and so limiting the amount of its power they can tap-- mastered/embraced their inner Hollow, and thus gained all of its potential power! And it seems that if a Visored does embrace their inner Hollow, the inner Hollow's Resurrección--or unleashing of its full, enhanced power--is absorbed into their true, Shinigami's Zanpakutou and almost becomes an alternate Bankai.

Developments with Ichigo are also highly suggestive. Didn't his inner Hollow claim "I am Zangetsu!" ? Didn't Ichigo transform into a new, berserk Hollow form with incredible power? It does seem that true hybrids--made with the Hougyoku or not--or those on the way to becoming true hybrids see their inner Hollow's maximum potential and its twin, their Zanpakutou's power, fuse together.

Here's a breakdown of my theory (in the below items, "~" means "analogous to/the equivalent of," but not "is exactly like/equal to"):

Shinigami's Asauchi (nameless Zanpakutou) = Hollow's Menos evolution(s) = Visored's forced Hollowfaction first step toward power, though still raw, not fully tapped, and uncontrollable

Shinigami's Zanpakutou manifestation/name-learning = Hollow's Arrancarifaction = Visored's learning to keep control achieving stability and the chance to access the power

Shinigami's Shikai = Arrancar's Resurrección = Visored's mask unsealing of power into its natural state so they may use it freely

Shinigami's Bankai = Arrancar's Resurrección Segunda Etapa = True Hybrid's Resurrección enhancing the natural state's power to new heights

Thus a true hybrid like Tousen now seems to be able, theoretically, to use a Shinigami's full arsenal--Shikai, Bankai, Shunpo, Kidou, etc.-- and a Hollow/Arrancar's full arsenal--Resurrección, Sonido, Cero, ultra-fast regeneration etc.--even without starting off as a Hollow first. The Visored probably could, too, if they dared to embrace or conquer their inner Hollows completely, instead of just suppressing them.

Hope this answers your questions/gives you food for thought, so let me know your thoughts. Sorry for the length, but this chapter has revved me up and fired my imagination! Hope to here from you soon. Thrilling stuff! :) Adam Restling 12:07, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

I think the point is being missed and getting alot of speculative when there is already information present.


 * Shinigmai - zanpakuto (shikai, bankai)


 * Hollow


 * Arrancar - zanpakuto (Resurrección)


 * Vizard - Zanpkauto (shikai, bankai) Hollowfication


 * Shinigami-Hybrid - zanpakuto (shikai, bankai) hollowfication, Resurrección

Whether the vizard are capable of it is a obvious, they are. We have seen it before Kensei and Mashiro weren't hollows 100 years ago that was a inner hollow controlled Resurrección similar to Ichigo during his fight with Ulquiorra. Whether they have attained control over it in the past 100 years is something we dont know, obviously ichigo hasn't. As well anyone can assume alot but the point being that Resurrección: Segunda Etapa was only seen once and only referred to one character. Despite the fact that it carries itself as a plot device, it was somewhat useless besides forcing ichigo into a more powerful form. Also All the Espada above Ulquiorra didn't possess one and they're all dead. So its quite clear what it was used for, at this point the use of it would be unnecessary to further the plot (as ichigo isn't strong enough not to use it every fight as he constantly uses bankai and hollowfication every fight). Also an espada's Resurrección is shown to be more then enough to take on most captains (in some cases even with bankai being used), furthering the point. The idea behind arrnacar is to attain access to shinigami like abilities (sonido, humanoid shape, pseudo zanpakuto) but thats where its stops apparently they are by in large still hollows and their release is enough to reflec that they dont need more levels. Even the shikai and bankai its more a way of separating captains from lower seats as the shingiami exist in a more formalized military, where the espada are only partially organized and tolerant of the organization seemingly created by aizen. They are noticeably antagonistic even to each other in or out of the ranking system.

Also the way this works is simple as determined by ichigo's advancement. In any shingiami there is their zanpakuto spirit in their inner world. It is the source of their power if your dealing with a vizard they have attained hollow powers and therefore they then have a inner hollow. Hollow ichigo once explained to ichigo while in the inner world, he is zangetsu. that he and Zangetsu were originally one being, as both are the source of Ichigo's power and Hollow Ichigo was part of Zangetsu. Although they both share one physical body, if the master and servant exchange roles, the form changes as well. As Hollow Ichigo's power grew control was transferred to him and Zangetsu became a part of him. Therefore the more Ichigo tries to draw out Zangetsu the easier it gets for Hollow Ichigo to take over Ichigo's soul. Ichigo realizing if Hollow Ichigo is defeated will put Zangetsu back into control. With that information we can note that to be the case with all vizards, hence to attain the position they release their zanpakuto like we have seen so many arrancar do. It is another release the difference is instead of bringing out the power of the zanpakuto spirit your bringing out the power of the inner hollow. From the information that would have it be more like this:


 * Shingimai - Zanpakuto (shikai, bankai)


 * Arrancar - Zanpakuto (Resurrección) Ulquiorra -Zanapkuto (Resurrección, Resurrección: Segunda Etapa)


 * Shinigami-Hollow Hybrid/Vizard - Zanpakuto (shikai, bankai, Resurrección) Hollowfication

Sorry for the long extension on the conversation. Salubri 19:50, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Minato for your thanks (?! Thanks overload! XD). Also, if you use say a browser like Firefox, open the " V iew" drop-down menu at the top of the browser window, and there should be a " Z oom" option to maybe allow you too see certain characters better. I know one of your earlier messages mentioned the difficulty your small screen gives you :).

@ Salubri - yeah, not much is known about these recent developments that counts as canon, that's why I was careful to preface most of my ideas with "this is all conjecture" or the like. All my theories and reasons behind this tenuous conjecture can be found in the data I posted above, as well as in related posts. We have no way of knowing, for example, if Segunda Etapa is the Hollow analogue of Bankai--which takes many years for most Shinigami to achieve--because all the Arrancar we know haven't had many years to live! XD Adam Restling 07:37, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Hence it being a plot device it serves no other purpose, there was no true leap in power besides becoming even more hard for ichigo to handle which he already was before its release, hence only something to push the envelope create the desperation and take it to another level to justify ichigos change. Not to mention time cant be a factor for it not only was he the 4th but he couldn't feasibly be any older then say barragan or starrk and Ulquiorra was the only one with it. As i stated if those of greater power then him doesn't have it then how significant can it be. We also have a tendency to ascribe the release as something of greater power because its a second release amongst those with only one. The issue here is we dont know that and cant ulquiorra has only seriously fought ichigo so we can only determine that it was more powerful then him we have nothing to prove he is anything but more then a match for ichigo. Unless its used again it seems to be a moot point to even include it when it pretains to only one character who states that he is the only one capable of it. Salubri (Talk)  06:44, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Re:Vizard is a race
Hello I'm Cococrash11 can you help me convince that in the Talk:Vizard or Talk:Kaname Tosen that Vizard is a race. --Cococrash11 07:49, December 12, 2009 (UTC)Coccorash11

Sure Tosen and Shinji's group are very diffrent but they are both still half Hollow. Beside you said Tosen's Hollow power is diffrent then Shinji's group well what about Ichigo's his hollow power is also way diffrent then Shinji's group when he fought the 4th Espada(I don't know how to spell his name) and he's still called a Vizard. Beside maybe Shinji's group haven't revealed all their Hollow power and I still think Tosen is a Vizard. --Cococrash11 23:03, December 12, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11

You said don't write something in the discussion word then where should I put in my writings? --Cococrash11 23:03, December 12, 2009 (UTC)Cococrash11

Name Change
I'm not positive, but I think the new user who made that forum wants to change "Jaegerjaquez" to "Jeagerjaquez", which would be an incorrect change (I reverted her edit of this earlier). Still, if she does, tell her that "Jaegerjaquez" is proven to be correct, and for proof, this page:.

I know you already know this, but if she asks, this is the reason why, in addition to what I said on the forum. Arrancar109 06:30, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank for the help with who created bleach.wikia. The reason that I put the question on my talk page was because don't know were you put questions at and the reason I wanted to know who created bleach.wikia is because I like to know about history I like to know where something comes from. December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Hey I just found that picture in the image library for this site. It had already been uploaded. I thought I put the fair use tag. Sorry. Faded.roses 17:11, December 13, 2009 (UTC) Faded.roses

Re: Image Policy
You know, I'm not too sure. I noticed that Twocents was working on the Policy, so I don't know what rules she added and haven't familiarized myself with it yet. I'm going to look into it and see what changes have been made. In the meantime, you might be better off asking her instead. Arrancar109 00:45, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

hey
hey been awhile, thought i'd see what u were up to.Soul reaper magnum 05:35, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

i was looking on ichigo's page and i noticed that in the picture with all the vizards holding down ichigo that there zanpakuto were black with silver edges. i haven't seen it mentioned befor so i thout i'd say something. what do you think?Soul reaper magnum 03:50, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Re: References
Yeah, I kinda wondered. I'll look into the matter soon. Arrancar109 21:00, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Hollow Ichigo
Hey there is some obvious issue with the last posts on hollow ichigo's talk pages they are general conversation that belong on his forum not on the talk page. Salubri (Talk)  23:04, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you.Salubri (Talk)  23:09, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

Actually burst is not confirmed as of yet. So as far as the discussion it is closed cause i dont feel like arguing but ask adam to get some translation on what we currently have and find the raw for that particular chapter as well as the the one she initially releases against gin and is stopped by izuru. the reference is on the zanpkauto. Salubri (Talk)  08:06, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Tosen
Actually the Resureccion is an action of a zanpakuto similar to how a arrancar's release. Hollowfication is only used as a term to donning a hollow mask. So its acutally listed under zanpakuto just like the arrancars are.Salubri (Talk)  17:07, December 15, 2009 (UTC)