Talk:Shunsui Kyōraku/Archive 3

Daruma-san and Kageokuri
I'm sorry I have to start a discussion for it, but it is impossible to edit the page, and it is also a complicated matter (at least for me), so I had no other choice.

In the part of the Daruma-san etc. game, Kyoraku specifies that it is thanks to Nanao he had reached Lille, and even complimented her abilities: this could mean that it is her Kidou that transported (the translation says "teleported") them there, and not Katen Kyokotsu's power. If that was the case, Nanao shouldn't have been able to go with Kyoraku. Moreover, the second time Kyoraku used it, Lille hadn't shot yet, so he couldn't have teleported along the line of his bullet. However, I'm not sure about the translation, so I could very well be wrong.

On the other hand, it is certain that Kageokuri is not one of Katen Kyokotsu's techniques. Kyoraku explained it is like a Reiatsu afterimage (basically an Utsusemi born from Reiatsu control and not speed), and the first time he used it, his sword was still sealed. Furthermore, it would make no sense for Lille to judge this skill impossible if it was merely one of the sword's abilities. --Martialmaniac (talk) 18:10, October 1, 2015 (UTC)


 * Im going to go out on a limb on this one seeing as im not sure this qualifies as something that has to do with the contents of the page or whether your making a statement to start a discussion. Seeing as if its the latter it doesnt belong on a talk page. Seeing as I dont know for sure ill assume its a question and answer it as such. Initially Lille is unsure of how Shunsui was capable of getting to him. After hearing the explanation for how the technique works Lille deduces the mechanics behind it correctly for the most part.http://readms.com/r/bleach/645/2954/8


 * Before that when Lille is still confused Shunsui asks him if he has ever played the game in question and then realizes they are from different cultures so he may not be familiar with the name or the game. Cut to a side conversation he then starts talking to Nanao where he praises her skills with being able to come after him as fast as she did. Basically praising her shunpo skills seeing as the last time back in the SS arc she was barely able to keep up and this time she was far more capable. Then he tells her to leave when she refuses he gets her to by giving her a order to relay a message. He doesnt say he got to Lille because of her and in truth that wouldnt make much sense. Seeing as we would need to know how thats possible especially when we eventually get doubled down information on how the technique works, proving she played no role. If your reading the translation i think your reading, yea thats inaccurate. http://readms.com/r/bleach/645/2954/5


 * Then secondly your other point, this to is misinforming. Shunsui specifically talks about it as a technique and the liner notes confirm the game it is based on. http://readms.com/r/bleach/645/2954/18 Also that was the first time he used it. What your thinking of the intital situation that happens at the end of last chapter and beginning of this one which he also explains. http://readms.com/r/bleach/645/2954/10 http://readms.com/r/bleach/645/2954/11


 * Lille as typical of the Quincy (as well as most villains of this series) this arc have assumed the role of overestimating his own power and underestimating that of his opponent. He doesnt believe that explanation as something he would fall for, but then Shunsui states why he would fall for it as he is no ordinary shinigami but the Captain-Commander. Its clear most Quincy seem to think all Shinigami are beneath them power wise and especially Lille. I hope that helps out with your confusion.--

Kidō Mastery
Can someone who is authorized please add Kidō Master into his Powers & Abilities section? Since he could use a #78 without so much as an incantation and still retain such power. Yatanogarasu (talk) 05:09, October 17, 2015 (UTC)

What does define the line between expert and master? Isn't 78 without incantation powerful enough to be master? Yatanogarasu (talk) 23:58, October 17, 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd say no. It's entirely possible that he's a master, given his age and experience, but I think a high-level spell below 90 performed without incantation is entirely achievable by an expert. If he had used two or more high-level spells one after another, then he'd definitely be a master, but expert seems fine for right now.--Xilinoc (talk) 00:42, October 18, 2015 (UTC)

Katen and Kyoukotsu or Katen Kyoukotsu?
A new(ish) concept from Chapter 650: Zanpakutou with separate wielders, yet possess near-identical forms/abilities. Would it make more sense to wait until they explain it? While we're at it, I request that this section doesn't get changed unless it's certain. The last thing we need is people debating names(the title of this topic), incantations(ie: is it just Flower Wind Rage and Flower God roar?), or bankai(ie: Katen: Karamatsu?) without anything validating the change.Lokker G (talk) 23:46, November 5, 2015 (UTC)


 * We will indeed be waiting until it is explained in more detail, which will most likely happen next week, because stating literally anything beyond "Nanao's Zanpakutō is named Kyōkotsu" on her page or "Shunsui decides to return Nanao's Zanpakutō to her" on Shunsui's is heavy speculation at this point, and god knows we don't even want to deal with that, so please bear with us.--Xilinoc (talk) 23:55, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

Corrected spelling/grammar
Hey, so I found a discrepancy with the following passage in the trivia. --- "While Shunsui is his first name and Kyōraku is his last name, his full name is Shunsui Sōzōsuke Kyōraku no Jirō. Kyōraku no Jirō means "second son of the Kyōraku family" whilst Sōzōsa means "assistant who conceals all" or "assistant who possesses all."" --- Now, Im not so great with japanese and their grammar so Sozosa could be the same word as Sozosuke (seems weird to me as in English those kind of grammar rules do not apply to names), so either there was a misspelling here or it is an unnecessary/unrelated addition to the wiki. If it is either of these please change it so it doesnt spread misinformation and such. If it is the same word please state that as I am a native English speaker I would appreciate it as it is difficult to find which meaning it is as I have a curious nature and want others who have the same issue to have it understood asap. So yeah cheers fellows. Alexofnz (talk) Alexofnz (talk) 00:11, December 1, 2015 (UTC)Alexofnz


 * This is a trivia point, one that if i recall was handled by someone who is proficient at translation. Im not sure your qualified enough to question it if by your own estimation your not familiar with Japanese. Not all languages are capable of translating into others seamlessly. Japanese is a complex and old language with many defied rules of operation while English as it is today a even more complex mishmash of other languages slang terms and influences that is more complex because it doesnt follow gender rules as well as having more inconsistencies and exceptions. So "Sozosa" is the closest thing to whats stated. We are not going to go into changing it simply cause a user doesnt understand it. This site isnt for translation lessons its a resource for bleach content. If you dont understand the translations you really cant determine whether its wrong or right. Its like not knowing how a engine works but having an opinion on how it should be fixed. It doesnt make much sense. What is translated there is what it is, its also not the point of the site to do character name translations. This case was specifically to explain the meaning by his elongated name which is uncommon for Japanese names in general but rare because its not uncommon for high ranking and noble Japanese names.--

Obviously you missed alot of what I was saying. I wasnt trying to say that I was qualified to talk about the translation, I was saying the meaning of the english translation is not well defined. I understand that in Japanese translation it can be different and even stated that. What I am asking is some explanation as to why two different words mean the same thing so other punters like me dont keep wondering at it, as googling it only brought this page up again. Now I am VERY qualified at english, I have a very good understanding of it, thus I think I am qualified to question the ENGLISH side of it as this part of the wiki? Yeah it aint in Japanese... Thus my reason for pointing out that my Japanese understanding was not something I have a great deal of knowledge in. (Thanks for unnecessarily reiterating that point...) A point of this site should be to have clear and concise explanations of whatever it could be talking about, as being able to understand what it says on here would help alot of users so its not a garbled unintelligible mishmash of information nobody can understand/read correct? Again I would like to reiterate that I did not try to talk as if I knew what I was talking about I was simply stating that it is a very bad english passage, (also with no references I might add...) I think it would be beneficial to rewrite it in a way that explains what it is talking about. I mean it basically says "This is his name and this is a word that means something else". Not very good ENGLISH, so I am asking that it be said "This is his name and it means..." Or "This is his name which when said like this means....". A simple ENGLISH translation discrepancy. Alexofnz (talk) 18:11, December 1, 2015 (UTC)Alexofnz


 * Actually understood entirely what you said and what i said still remains. Some languages dont translate nor arent even meant to be translated into english thus the best equivalent is given. We are not making a point to address that difference or explain it on the article pages seeing as what i said previously this is a simple trivia point to give some explanation to a full name nobody was aware the character had for the past 14 yrs the series has been going on. You point out english doesnt have those kind of grammar rules with names, but as i stated this is not english so why would those rules apply they are romanizing the translation with all options presented by the japanese characters in question. This is common for a an explanation to have two different meanings as a single character can change a words entire intent and meaning. You want to know why? well thats not the trivia sections, articles or sites job. While you may try to state what this site should be about Its actually for bleach content. A crash course in why this is that in Japanese it is not. As far as how it's written out thats literally a second point your just making now as your previous one was to know which meaning it was. We have actual translators for this site which we scrutinize well before we use their translation we dont need to question their capabilities with references they cant provide but by showing their capability. But we do have things translated and if you question the validity of it then why ask anyone here to clarify anything in relation to translations with your dig at pointing out references for translations like it comes from a book and on top of that change the point your making to grammatical sentence structure. Now the conversation between translators on this name issue took place here [|here]  where all translations take place.--

Alright, I took a look at that discussion and it seems Adam ruled that Sozosuke would be the more appropriate reading of the two, so I changed the Sozosa mention in the trivia section to that. Simple enough fix. Case closed.--Xilinoc (talk) 19:24, December 1, 2015 (UTC)