Talk:Zangetsu (Zanpakutō spirit)

Adjuchas-class or higher?
I think that the note about possibly being an adjuchas should be removed, because of the paragraph before stating:"If Ichigo were ever to turn into a complete hollow, it would be the end of the world, according to the Shinigami." I think that would be enough to illustrate his power, and anyway, how would a mere adjuchas be the end of the world when even Rukia can kill one? Wouldnt that be a decrease in power, because Ichigo easily "kills" an adjuchas (it turns out the adjuchas is still alive later, but thats what you get for not releasing Bankai). If it says anything about a possible hollow class, I think it should say possibly Vasto Lorde.Crimmastermind 06:33, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking of the same thing

I'm not sure if the "end of the world" statement is even in the manga, but I won't touch it for now. However, I have removed claims of Hollow Ichigo being an adjuchas or vasto lorde. Technially, both classes are made up of multiple hollows, with one's willpower in control. While his strength is at least as strong as an adjuchas-class hollow, Hollow Ichigo is still technically a singular hollow, since he hasn't consumed other souls or hollows in all of Bleach canon. Arrancar109 21:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)



His name is NOT Ogihci.
Look here. A mirror writing is different from a backward spelling. Now let's take a word like bid. What is the backward spelling of this word? dib. Now what is the mirror writing? Same, bid. The backward spelling of Ichigo's name and the mirror writing are different things altogether. And most importantly, the mirror writing was in Japanese. I forgot to mention this in the article, but a Japanese mirror writing will deviate from an English backward spelling even further. Therefore, the Hollow Ichigo's name is not Ogihci Ikasoruk, and as he claims, we can say that he actually has no name. :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 06:36, 25 October 2008 (UTC)



Ichigo vs Ulquiorra
I think the section which say: ''While he is quite confident that he can defeat both Yammy and Ulquiorra together, Ichigo in his Vizard state could not inflict a scar on Ulquiorra. It is assumed that this is either because the Hollow's power is absolute but Ichigo is yet to learn how to use that power fully, or simply because the Hollow was underestimating Ulquiorra, and only recently gained the power to match him.'' is misleading, because it implies that Ichigo's attacks cannot damage Ulqiorra, much like his first attacks on Kenpachi. However, this is not true, since when Ichigo fired his Getsuga Tenshō at Ulquiorra, he said afterwards that it was too powerful for him to stop (though I admit that he managed to dodge it and was not really hurt as a result of the blast). Still, at least reword the paragraph (under trivia) so that it better reflects this fact.Crimmastermind 06:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I wrote the paragraph, so I guess I should be responsible for it. Okay, but until recently the fact that Ichigo's full power Getsuga couldn't even hurt Ulquiorra is true. So I think I'll just add that part (which states that even though he was unhurt Ulquiorra couldn't block it either) to the paragraph. What do you think? :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 21:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Getsuga doesn't work against Ulquiorra, even now. I think since the Grimmjow fight, Ichigo has gotten stronger, which means his hollow has gotten stronger.  That's why he was able to crack Ulquiorra's sword and force him into releasing.  Whether or not the hollow itself could beat Ulquiorra is immaterial, since Ichigo is (firmly?) in control.Big red01027 21:44, 12 February 2009 (UTC)



New Cero
This may be stupid but I think that since Ulquiorra's Cero is called Cero Oscuras meaning Dark or Black Cero, then Ichigo's Cero should be called Cero Blanco meaning White Cero (because of it white appearance). Hollow Ichigo is know for using white attacks so I'm pretty sure the color is white. The reason I say that is because most of the words that have anything to do with Hueco Mundo are Spanish words. Just a suggestion. --- Klross1.


 * There is no proof as of yet that Ichigo's cero is white. I mean yeah, it is possible that it will be, either stated by a character, or shown in the Anime (MUCH later, unfortunately), but do not forget that manga pages are naturally black and white. Just because Ichigo's new cero looks white in the manga doesn't confirm it until someone from the story (or Tite Kubo) states it. Don't forget, in the manga pages, just about every cero looks white, so it's too soon to assume that Ichigo's new cero is white. Arrancar109 19:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * It's worth pointing out that the color page for chapter 353 shows that Ichigo's cero is white with a dark-pinkish trim like that on his black Getsuga Tenshou. Daisekihan 00:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * We can't take the luxury of inventing the techniques name, just because it seems to fit. If it hasn't been given an official name, then, just like Ichigo's Hollow, we can presume it has no name, or at least that it doesn't have one yet.Lia Schiffer 01:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

If I would have known that the comment I made was going to create a problem I wouldn't have put it on here. I also know that it's quite hard for one to forget that manga pages are black & white when i read various manga everyday (as i'm sure others do as well). I was just saying.. like everybody else does. It's called voicing ones opinion. If need be this "New Cero" section can be taken down by anyone if it's going to cause anymore "speculation" or "inventing" problems. (thnx:) ---Klross1.



Scarmask
One thing I had to notice was that the illustration on chapter 289, titled the Scarmask, featured a (top right quarter of a) skull face very similar to Ichigo's new Hollow mask, though there are notable differences. Do you think Kubo drew this to foreshadow Ichigo's new transformation? Its different shape and coloring might be because the design was still being processed, like Di Roy who appeared as early as in the first arc. :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 12:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

The changes to the mask are very pronounced, the horns are now pointing upwards and much longer, also the mask does not have the face of a human school. the design on it is nothing like the current mask, etc. etc. I doubt it.Killa0norris 00:34, 21 March 2009(UTC)

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/289/02-03/ before

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/350/08/ after

Compare the two mask, the only resemblance is the horns.Killa0norris 00:36, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

not sure if this is relevant but if you look at the new mask on this hollow form it has more black then his normal mask, it was original thought by many that this represented the control he had, what if this is actually the amount of the hollows powers he is accessing (similar to the tails in naruto) this would explain why when it first appeared in the series it only had 1-2 strips and increases with the strength of his opponents

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/351/02/

Fawcettp 00:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)



Automated transfer of Problem Report #23585
The following message was left by Anonymous via PR #23585 on 2009-06-25 08:08:46 UTC

Under the Fake Karakura section, it states that Hollow ichigo uses "Shunpo" to get behind Ulquiorra and rip his arm off. This is incorrect. Ulquiorra himself recognizes and distinguishes it as "Sonido"

Technically it is a shunpo but its speed is as fast as a sondio wich is faster than a shunpo the difference is when arrancar use sondio they make a vrrrm sound the shunpo does not

Yo
You know, could someone please get a picture/video from Bleach 233? Cause the Hollow taking over on that episode looked great - KingBlackChicken

energy release
should it be mentioned that whenever ichigo regains control over his body, after the hollow side takes control, there is a massive release of energy (as seen all three time the hollow has had complete control (vizard training, fighting zangetsu ep 233, and when fighting in HM)) this is great enough to shatter hachi's barrier and destroy several pillars in SS Fawcettp 09:32, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The Creature in his Chest.
In episode 233 there was a creature that popped out Ichigo's chest that attempted to consume Muramasa. Does anybody know what that is?--22:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * the worm thing also appears during his vizard training Fawcettp 01:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

It Looks similar to the touge of the Arrcanar when they first entered Hunco Mundo. Otherwise I am not quite sure myself, since the inner mouth of a hollow could be the touge, if you notice in the early manga and Anime Hollow have a second mouth inside their main one. -Desruprot

Ressurection?
I know it's a dumb idea but could it be considered that this new hollow form is hollow ichigo's ressurection? Maybe he has some how become an Arrancar? --Bereisgreat 17:10, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Full Hollow
I edited the page already, but has anyone noticed that Hollow Ichigo's mask is fractured over the left eye when his "full hollow" form emerges? I think he can only really complete the mask if ichigo is dead and there is no more contest over the soul.Utae 21:13, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Hollow Ichigo's Power
i believe "hichigo" in full transformation (vizard training) is comparable to adjuchas while i believe this new transformation is comparable to a vasto lorde any objections --Cmcwiki 10:17, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this issue is LONG dead, as seen up on top of the Talk Page. Any attempt to put change it to say Hollow Ichigo is any of these classes is gonna get reverted, due to it being technically untrue. Arrancar109 15:41, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

i have no intention of changing the article, i am merely saying that hollow ichigo's power suggests his status as a vasto lorde, considering that he took out ulquiorra's second release, and his appearance is similar to the sillouhete of the vasto lorde. notice the white skin and the near human appearance. evidence points to being a vasto lorde, however until proven this will remain only as suspiscion.--Cmcwiki 19:15, October 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay Cmcwiki, we understand what you're saying & yes once transformed into his full hollow form his power is possibly comparable to a Vasto Lorde. However, his inner hollow is controlling ICHIGOS power not its own. Also a Vasto Lorde is a Menos Grande. It is the 3rd class of Menos as well as the strongest & Menos aren't regular Hollows. In order for a Hollow to become a Menos it must devour many many other hollows. After it has devoured a as of yet unspecified amount of Hollows(Though it is thought to be well over 100) it will become a Gillian(The weakest of the Menos). An arrancar named Grimmjow who when he was a Hollow was the 2nd class of Menos(Adjuchas). He alone devoured at least 3,000 hollows & never ascended to Vasto Lorde. To further prove my point Aaroneiro the 9th Espada was a Gillian class Menos. He boasted that during his entire lifetime he had devoured more then 30,000 hollows & was still considered a Gillian. This makes it impossible for Ichigos Inner Hollow to be a Menos let alone a Vasto Lorde. Any changes to this even if it is just speculation will be changed back. Minato88 20:45, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

you are forgetting that all power is based off of spiritual energy. ichigo and hollow ichigo are very powerful and in turn i believe that the amount of spiritual energy they possess allows them to bypass consuming other hollows, by the time hollow ichigo's full form appeared, ichigo had faced and defeated two captain level shinigami, byakuya and zaraki. this suggests that hollow ichigo's power is at least adjuchas possibly before the training. by the time he faces off against ulquiorra's 2nd release, hollow ichigo is on par and even surpassing him (i personally believe the top four espada to be a vasto lorde, again speculation) making me believe he is on par with vasto lorde if not one himself. again i say that this is all speculation and i have no intention of editing the article until all suspicions are proven true or false --Cmcwiki 21:28, October 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Cmcwiki, first I would like to thank U for agreeing with me about the top 4 Espada. I too think they are Vasto Lorde & if U go to the Watercooler under forums & look under the new developments U will see my arguments about this. Still what I said was true. The Hollow is manipulating Ichigo's massive amount of power. If U read the Hollow Ichigo page & look at his abilities it states as far as combat skills are superior to Ichigos in every way, Yet Ichigo's spirit power overwhelmed him & Ichigo subjugated him. Vasto Lorde aren't just really really really powerful Hollows. They are a conglomeration of many different hollows. It is possible that Ichigos Inner Hollow has evolved into a very powerful Hollow since it is stated that Ichigos Hollow & Zangetsu are actually the same, but it is still IMPOSSIBLE for him to be a Menos Grande. To further state my point is that Ichigo has truly massive amounts or Spirit Energy. His Zanpakuto is possible proof of this. Kenpachi(Whose Zanpakuto is also a constant Release type) has stated that his Zanpakuto can't be sealed because his spirit pressure is too strong & Ichigo is the only other character whose Zanpakuto is always released. So its not impossible to say Ichigo himself is on par with a Vasto Lorde. Minato88 23:14, October 4, 2009 (UTC)

so that being, we have established (speculation) that while not being adjuchas or vasto lorde, hollow ichigo and in turn ichigo himself are on par with them (speculation ends)--Cmcwiki 23:34, October 4, 2009 (UTC)