Talk:Gin Ichimaru

Repetition
Is it really necessary to repeat the information on his Arrancar research appearances twice? It is explained twice, with the exact same words. I removed it once, but it was replaced. I will remove it once more now i have this here to let you know the info is still there even if i remove it, it is just in a different section. Acacia Akiyama 16:32, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

An Ability of his Shikai left out.
I went back to the Soul Society arc chapters and noticed something. When Aizen orders him to kill Rukia, Gin uses his Shikai but instead of hitting Rukia he hits Byakuya. When Gin retracts his Shikai it is shown slithering and bending back like a snake instead of just coming straight back to him. This should be noted that Gin's Shikai can also bend like a snake.. Here is the chap and page to where this happens, http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/177/03/. I have also noticed that his that his Shikai phrase changes depending on the gender of his target. When he targets a female, he replaces him with her and vice versa. Heres the pages to that. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/176/22/ http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/132/11/ http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/75/14/ Also another thing I noticed it that sometimes when he use his Shikai the cutting part of his blade is sticking up, like a reverse blade sword. Heres more links. http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/75/17/ http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/177/04/ noted this this instance if you look at where his blade connects to the hilt you see whether its upside down seeing as the rest of the blade is covered in Byakuya's blood. Here's an instance when it's not upside up or however you say it, http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/132/11/. Saimaroimaru 04:59, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Well having looked at what you have provided there are some issues. The snake thing is not consistent in what we have seen of his Zanpakutō ability it commonly shoots straight, its never been seen in that instance but one time. Ill list that much about him changing the pronoun for a specific target. Its not really noteworthy whether its upside down or not because its a simple action he can hold it up side down for a upward cutting action or the right way for a downward or either way if its just shooting straight, its depending on his preference, but its no more then rotating his wrist or holding it a certain way like anyone else with a sword can do. Salubri 16:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I see what you mean but I looked at the one instance its not upside down or whatever but when it hits Matsumoto blade its upside down again, http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/132/13/. I think its worth mentioning that when ever he uses his Shikai it ends up upside down at some point. Snake thing should be mentioned as well seeing as it is apart of Shinso's abilities even if rarely done, its like saying Byakuya's white sword thing from his Bankai shouldn't be mentioned because it was only used once. Saimaroimaru 22:16, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Why should it be mentioned what i already said about it. Its cause he chooses to do that it doesn't necessarily mean anything as well the snake thing was shown once in one panel of an entire page and never again its not relevant at all and the white sword is not a good comparison because we know that's a definitive ability of that particular Bankai technique. Not only in manga and anime but even in official books it's recognized the same can't be said for either of Gins. Salubri 22:50, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Fine, I'll just leave it as is. However if Gin's Shikai snakes appear again in the upcoming battle, I will be adding it. However where in the article does it mention his tendencies to using his Shikai upside down?Saimaroimaru 22:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You are reading way to much into it, the snake thing is most likely the trail of blood he drew from Byakuya. As for and the the sword, upside is nothing more a flick of the wrist any one can use their sword blade facing up or blade acing down at any time so is not really an ability is just swordsmanship. WhiteStrike 23:14, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Right like it common for blades to bend like that, don't think, its his sword that bending like that. I'm just asking that his tendencies to have his sword upside down when his Shikai is released to be mentioned.Saimaroimaru 23:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Umm... I took a look at your links, and I must say that I'm with Salubri and WhiteStrike with this one. I didn't really get the blade tipping/turning/whatever thing since I didn't see it change position, unless gin himself did something. Both in manga and anime. And the snake thing... same thing as well as the fact that his Zanpakutō Shinsou, has been translated as divine spear, sacred spear or spear of god depending on the translation. Nevertheless, no snake in any translation. --Cyberflame 15:21, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I realise that this topic is a bit old, but Saimaroimaru is correct about the snaking of the Zanpakutō. We see it happen on two separate occasions. When Gin stops Ichigo & gang at the gate, and attacking Byakuya. Both times he withdrew his sword, it noticeably curved (snaked) quite a bit. Bottom right panel (through the gate): http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/75/17/ and here: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/177/03/. It is not an isolated incident. I think it should be noted in the article. Something to the effect of "When returning the blade to its normal length, it has been seen to curve, rather than returning in a straight line." would be fine. No need to go into detail on it. Just add those two links in as a reference. I think the upside down thing is either a drawing error (KT does make them often enough) or just Ichimaru moving his wrist around, flipping it --Yyp 15:39, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

The snaking is bound to just be how it returns to it's normal form. Medrike14 01:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Uh no, we decided if we see more it then bring it up, just leave it for now.Saimaroimaru 03:17, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Shinso is at it again, this time on release, rather than when returning. Middle panel:. I won't add it, as I want to see other peoples opinions first. --Yyp 22:42, October 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Are u talking about it looking curved? I'm sorry, but I don't think I fully understand you're question/statement. Minato88 00:57, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

How about we put a line that says, "Shinsou has demonstrated the ability to curve" and reference it to that page from the latest chapter and maybe the one in the SS arc and be done with it. However, I do not support actually using the word "snake" or "snaking" because it has implications towards Shinsou's zanpakuto spirit and frankly we don't know anything about said spirit. Tinni 04:03, October 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * Sigh. Snake is being used as a verb here. It in no way implies anything at all about Gin's zanpakuto spirit, it describes the way in which the blade moves, the word's not an issue. However, in this specific instance, it looks to me like we're just seeing the natural curve of Gin's blade from an angle, not that the weapon was actually bending itself. Katana and wakizashi traditionally have a natural curve, after all. Furthermore, it looks like Gin's blade bending is just when it retracts; it always (so far) shoots forward straight like there's immense force behind it, and reels in like a ribbon. Magugag 19:39, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

I sorry guys, but it is not curved or snaking or anything else!! In that one pic it only looks curved because Gin is swinging it. Kubo had to draw it looking curved in order to symbolize this.IF this is added I WILL REMOVE IT. Minato88 21:29, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * facepalm* have you ever look at the pics? Look at the first one, do just look at the tip of the blade if you look at the whole thing its moving back to its owner unnaturally like a snake, the way its bending its not natural to a sword.Thats my smoking gun right there. Use the bottom panel is you wanna show ii in the article.Saimaroimaru 22:54, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Facepalm, Smoking Gun(Dude What)? In the first one i'll give it to u, but it was the only time it ever happened & even though the Manga does take precedence, it never did that in the Anime. As far as the tip thing I just don't see how its different. When he hits Ichigo & Jidanbo, it looks like his sword was actually bending from their weight. With Toshiro; Well, u have to remember that Gins sword is a Wakizashi, which is a smaller version of a Katana, & the last time I checked Katanas are not completely straight. Another thing u have to remember is that the Manga is a book & when u want to symbolize someone swinging something it has to look bent.


 * In regards to u'or first pic where it snakes. I would put that in his Trivia saying something like; In the Manga, Chapter 177, Page 3, Gins Zanpakuto was shown bending & snaking after having stabbed Byakuya. It has never been seen doing this since. If the other users & admins think this might be acceptable in the trivia u can put it in, but i'd wait to hear what they have to say. Minato88 19:02, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

I don't really think that it is worth mentioning, it's basic physics, really. Despite being shot out so fast, an object as long as Shinso wouldn't remain completely straight. Metal swords are flexible, especially if they are as ridiculously long as Shinso. If I am correct, the blade's own weight causes it to bend. Hence, when it bends while returning to Gin, it appears to be waving back and forth, causing the so-called "snake" effect. At least that's the way that I see it - but for all intents and purposes, I very much doubt that it is an actual ability. Mohrpheus 20:18, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

So because it only happened once its not true, in that case we should go get rid of abilities used by the other characters just because they only used them once. Yes a sword is bendy but not that bendy, show me a real world example of a sword bending like what we have seen in that page or its bs.I'm gonna contact Salubri on this.Saimaroimaru 00:24, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Ok im not really sure why this conversation is still ongoing you would have thought a consensus would have taken place by now. There has apparently been been alot of questioning the panels where this was shown and the probable physics of it and so forth. My basic view on this is that seeing as it was shown in the manga it should be listed that should appease those wanting it added. Though seeing as it has only happened once and its neither consistent nor likely to continue to be shown its not notable enough to be considered important. No matter what side your on the basic fact is snaking or bending really isn't important to its function. If it shot out and had the bend-ability of a ribbon it wouldn't be an effective weapon. Seeing as we know it is a effective weapon for killing be it stabbing or cutting through opponents at a distance its questionable what the debate really is at this point. It may possibly loose some of its sturdiness as it retracts back to normal we havent seen it in that light really. So what I propose is that it be mentioned in the trivia section with a understanding that it has only taken place once and only in the manga. As well that it may be simply a error in drawing design. But for all those reasons as well as the fact that its not a important mention to the functionality of shinso it should just be mentioned in the trivia section as it simply not clear as to its importance besides what is possibly done in when it retracts. Salubri 02:10, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Thank you I'm fine with that, all I wanted was for it to be mentioned somewhere on this page. Please mark this as resolved.Saimaroimaru 02:29, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Will someone add it, sorry I suck at writing trivia.Saimaroimaru 02:36, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Child Prodigy??
"Gin is one of a handful of child prodigies in Soul Society along with Kaien Shiba and Tōshirō Hitsugaya."

In a way, it might be true... but since neighter gin or kaien have been confrimed to be child prodigies, I'll remove it for now. If something is confirmed, it can be put back. But for now it's really unconfrimed information--Cyberflame 18:42, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

This is why there needs to be more awareness of what is happening in the storyline and more reading of the manga. It is explained in the conversation between Ukitake and Kaien when he is trying to talk kaien into becoming his lieutenant during turn back the pendulum arc. It is confirmed that kaien was a child prodigy and that at the time gin who was still a kid was also and had even gotten through the academy faster then kaien and had become a seated officer.Salubri 18:58, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, no it was Gin
In chapter 364 it's Gin makes the "Stench of death" comment not Aizen. Those were clearly his freakishly long fingers and in the Maximum 7 translation, the dialogue was in Gin's slang. Aizen just thought the "stench of death" was a splendid thing and commented on it being fitting for the scene before them. Aizen's creepy. Tinni 11:46, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Trivia
"Despite being manipulative, Gin admits that he is pleased with his former lieutenant Izuru Kira after seeing him killing an Arrancar, this shows that there may be some good in him"

I'm pretty sure that doesn't show the possibility of any good. It just shows that Gin is satisfied that Kira is strong enough and, if anything, shows that Gin is just a twisted man. This, to me, sounds like the writings of a hopeful Gin fan. ThePortalMan 16:46, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree and i tihnk that part should be removedOne eyed king 22:08, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I concur, as it simply is one possible interpretation of what he means, and a single statement doesn't mean that he's good. As no one else said otherwise or provided an alternative in the past 11 days since you brought this up, I removed it. Twocents 01:52, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Speed
During his battle with Toshiro, he had amazing speed, stabbing his sword wildly at the young genius. Shouldn't this be noted?--Kylecharmed 00:42, September 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Anime padding. Don't get me wrong it was very cool and all but that particular move was not present in the manga so... no for now. Tinni 01:37, September 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Doesn't this wiki take into consideration information from both the manga and the anime? Magugag 16:31, October 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * Powers and ability are strictly from the manga, or at least it's suppose to be. Anyway, in this case that particular ability of Gin has no basis in the manga. In the manga his fight with Hitsugaya lasted all of 3 pages. Hitsugaya activated what later was revealed to be Tensō Jūrin, Gin jumped upto the roof of Squad three, Hitsugaya captured Gin's hand, Gin activated his shikai and Matsumoto blocked it and then it was all over. We really don't know what his speed is like in the manga. Tinni 16:49, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

In the latest chapter, Deicide 2, this ability is shown while he uses his ban kai.Chasbene 20:17, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Proposed profile image change
I propose a change to the image of Ichimaru that we use for this profile as it's very old and comes from the Soul society arc. What do you guys think of replacing the image with the new image from episode 232? Tinni 02:03, September 21, 2009 (UTC)



Yes to the change, no to the one you featured. It does look like you edited the background heavily, but I think it's because you took it from an episode where Ichimaru was trapped within flames along with Aizen. Tinni already knows this, but I'm looking for images on numerous characters, and I'm including Ichimaru on this. While I do think the current image is a good image, Ichimaru's not a captain anymore, so I do see Tinni's point of view on this. Anyone who can supply an Arrancar/Hueco Mundo/Fake Karakura arc pic of Ichimaru are welcome to do it. Arrancar109 02:18, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if this would be feasible, or if it would be too much work in and of itself, but could we maybe make a list of characters that we'd like to update the profile images on, so that way, those who want to help can reference the list, make comments about proposed updates, etc? Twocents 02:22, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Well, like I said, it's on the top of my "To-Do" List now, after Tinni and I had a discussion about Aizen and Soifon's profile pics. Some may or may not be suitable, since I've seen the same Soifon edit attempt countless times, so some may not be accepted right away. Still, I think we can change many of the characters with little to no problems. Arrancar109 02:31, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

I did edit the background but the pic actually comes from the arrancar encyclopaedia segment of that episode. Completely unedited it looks like as shown to the left. Ichimaru pictures are however not a problem. I have a ton of them. How about this totally unedited one from episode 154, also shown on the left, then? Tinni 02:55, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Not quite that one, but you're trying. I say keep at it. I'm looking throughout the eps for other characters at the moment, but if I come across a good Ichimaru shot, I'll display here. And yes, omake segments work too, which also might be helpful here. Arrancar109 03:02, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

That's gonna be tough, because in the recent episodes Gin has only turned up in the arrancar encyclopaedia in a pose that's "profile" worthy. But I'll keep looking. Good luck with your mugshot hunt. Tinni 03:10, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Right, more images. This time from episode 153. Totally unedited or cropped or prettied up in anyway. If any of them are picked, I'll crop it and make it more focused on Gin and less on background and stuff. Tinni 03:33, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think that the current image should be changed, as it is an old pic. I like the "Ichimaru pic from 154" one, but feel it is a bit too close to his face (zoomed out slightly it would be perfect, imo). "Gin Episode 153 Option 1" is good too. Both have a better angle on his face than the existing one. --Yyp 13:39, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Ok, "Gin Episode 153 Option 1" it is till we find something better. Tinni 14:46, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the reject images, as they serve no further purpose now. -- Yyp (Talk) 15:04, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

I have the software to capture HD images as they appear on screen. How about I get a pic suggested by one of you guys. Just tell me the episode and I'll do it. BlazeUchiha 09:46, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Okay I just uploaded this image of when Gin was trapped in Yama-jii's flame prison. Just wondering if it'd work as the profile image as the current looks kind of fuzzy and is from a while back. Prophet of Sanghelios 09:28, April 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Profile pictures must be front on, preferably with no foreign elements intruding (i.e. shadows, glow from a fire, dust, snow, rain, odd power glows etc) and they must show a good portion of the characters face and head. The image you uploaded failed all those things. So no, it won't work as a profile. Tinni   (Talk)  09:51, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

You could've just said no :'( jokes okay then if that's how profile images need to be presented then I'll continue searching. Prophet of Sanghelios 09:56, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

I know this might not work out but the pic used to depict Gin in the Arrancar Encyclopedia segments is a really good shot. He's facing the cam, grinning and all. Otherwise, can we get pics from the aforementioned segments? BlazeUchiha 17:15, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Chpt 399
Page is locked, so I can't do this myself. Chamges to be made: -

Opens eyes 3 times (third is when he acivates Bankai)

Shikai extends 100 sword lengths

Bankai - Kami-Shini no Yari (God Killing Spear on initial translations) Blade extends 13km.

Could someone do the honours please. Thanks. Night all. TomServo101 00:39, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Also could we change his status? it should be fighting ichigo, he's the only one of the 4 remaining fighters having his status as 'active'. Tensa Zabimaru 02:43, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Lightly injured?
Ummm, dude, a portion of his head and nearly his entire right hand is gone...how does that...Kaihedgie 01:35, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

As far as the panel shows, he's just bleeding from a wound that seems to be above his right eye. I don't know where you got that his hand is gone, that's just smoke covering it. Lia Schiffer 02:36, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Kaihedgie, I have labelled your forum post crack and closed discussion on it. I am going to do the same there. That panel does not remotely show the damage you are describing and therefore, there is nothing to discuss here. Tinni  (Talk)  12:25, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia
Gin's trivia looks pretty messy now, i think that the "times he opened his eyes" part should be removed to make it more presentable. it doesn't really add anything to the article. and we don't have the same for Yama-jii (at least not anymore).

chances are he'll open his eyes again several times in his (last?) fight against ichigo and this will keep extending.

if you don't want this removed please let me know. Nick D Wolfwood 11:45, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

I am taking the above as translating to "Tinni, o great Trivia nazi, please be merciless with Gin's trivia section!" Well if that's what the people want, that's what the people shall get! Tinni  (Talk)  11:57, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

The following trivia points has been judged to be junk. If you have a compelling reason as to why they should not be so, please make your argument here. Do not put any of the trivia below back without discussion. Tinni  (Talk)  12:07, April 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * So far Gin has fully opened his eyes only six times throughout the entire series:
 * In the flashback, when Momo, Izuru, Shūhei, and Renji were attacked by large Hollows.
 * In his battle with Tōshirō.
 * In the captains' tribute ending to him and Izuru.
 * In the opening sequence of the 91st episode.
 * Twice during his battle with Ichigo.
 * He has also opened his eyes twice in other media, albeit showing different eye colors:
 * On the cover of Volume 20 of the Bleach manga, showing blue eyes.
 * In a cut scene in Bleach: Dark Souls, showing golden yellow eyes.

''This trivia has become rather long and while it is true that it is rare to see Gin with his eyes open, it is no longer as rare as it once was. I think for now it is best to leave the trivia out. Once Gin's role in the series is finished, we might revisit this trivia. But right now this trivia is borderline junk.''


 * Gin is one of a handful of child prodigies in Soul Society along with Kaien Shiba and Tōshirō Hitsugaya.

''This should already be in the history section. In addition, it was determine sometime ago that while Kaien was a prodigy, we do not know if he was young enough to be considered a child when he graduated from the academy.''


 * The last of the two kanji that forms the name of Gin's Zanpakutō (sō) also means "harpoon" or "gun" (written in another way). In Chinese, "sō" means "lance" or "fire weapon."

These language type trivia are of very limited appeal and we have removed them from other articles.

Question...
Which reading of this symbol 殺 would allow for it to be spoken as shinu in its default form? Or is it something that hasn't been done before that the... hiragana? furigana? whatever!... was included in the article like that?

Plus, why wasn't the symbol usually used for "of" (の, no) included in the kanji for Gin's bankai? Were those exact symbols there in the raw? --Reikson 12:53, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Explanation so far is found at the bottom of the Translation Corner page.Salubri (Talk)  13:01, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Hm. --Reikson 13:26, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

On Gin's eyes
I was just watching the Gin and Hitsugaya fight, I noticed in the brief moment that Gin opened his eyes that they were red, not blue. Do his eyes change colour? NeroDynamic 06:54, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

No; actually, what happened is that Ichimaru's eyes were depicted blue in the original manga, while they appeared red in the anime during that fight scene. Many fans get confused on the topic, but this is the actuality behind why we have his eyes listed as blue-colored instead of red. Arrancar109 (Talk)  06:57, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to add that the reference that goes with the "blue" in the info box is actually to the cover of Volume 20 (shown to the right). It is very frustrating when people just change his eye colour to red without taking note of the reference. Not to mention listing red as his eye colour invalidates the reference! Look, Gin has very beautiful blue eyes! The anime team got it wrong (wouldn't be the first time). But when Kubo coloured his eyes, he made them blue and that's what we will be listing. Tinni  (Talk)  09:14, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Alright Tini dont pop a blood vessel... NeroDynamic 10:03, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Remember Tinni is Gin fangirl. Besides, Gin looks awesome with blue eyes, it sucks that the anime gave him red eyes, even if they look cool too, blue looks more awesome because it suits him better. And that's what Kubo drew period. Besides, repeating the same over and over again gets annoying at some point. Gin has blue eyes in the manga, that's all there is to it, and that's what we're going to reference Lia Schiffer   (Talk)  19:51, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

I never said his weren't blue I was just curious about why they were red in the anime and blue on the cover of vol. 20 NeroDynamic 22:10, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

May I cut in, while Kubo made them blue, they appear to be red throughout the anime and many fans tend to write him with red eyes. I think we should say his eyes are red in the anime and blue in the manga when listing descriptions of Gin. I don't see why we can't say both. Hallibel has half her chest out in the manga but she's almost completely covered in the anime and they but both down for her, we can put both eye colors for Gin.Mimi-soutaicho125 17:08, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

There is already a picture that shows Gin's red eyes in the anime, I don't know if any more reference to the difference is really necessary. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  17:27, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

This just brings up something that has been on my mind, because I love this wiki. We should use not only manga information, but also anime information, just specify between the two. For instance, Gin's eyes, or his incredible speed in his fight with Toshiro. A lot of anime fans visit this wiki, too. I am a fan of both, so I think its necessary.--KyleFanatic 20:44, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, there are couple of problems here. While we still have the image of Gin's red eyes in the appearance section, I noticed we no longer have the text that goes with it. Unsurprising as nothing that lead to out of universe language and so was clearly removed when the page went through regular edits. As such, I propose that we drop the picture of Gin's eye down to the trivia section, where we can address his eye colour issues in out of universe language. However, I see no reason as to why we need to clutter the infobox with his anime eye colour. In all good honestly, Gin is not the only person whose eye colour was messed up by the anime team. Yumichika is another person who had a different eye colour in the anime. Gin is just the one person whose eye colour everybody remembers. Secondly, we do have a Anime Policy that dictates how to incorporate anime based information and to the best of my knowledge, Gin's article as it currently is conforms to the policy. Some of the things KyleFanatic is suggesting might not be possible under the policy as the simple rule underpinning the policy is manga > anime. As such, the wiki regards Gin's eye colour in the anime as nothing more then an inconsistency and like all inconsistencies it will only be noted in the trivia section. Tinni  (Talk)  01:02, April 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think this is a much better solution. Yyp  (Talk) 12:43, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Well, my question is this: Does Kubo, or does Kubo not, have control over what the anime team does and does not do? Meaning: could he have made them change Gin's eye color from red to blue if that is indeed what he desired? If he does have such control, but decided to not make them change the color, then the question to all of us here is this: who do we think we are, supposing that we know better what Kubo wants better than he does? I should also point out that Gin's eyes are consistently red throughout the anime. In my opinion, the consistency within the anime, contrasted with the single, non-story colored manga page, is a very strong case for Gin's eyes being red and not blue (should Kubo have authority over what the anime releases). It is quite possible for people to change their minds. We do it all the time. I'm not going to say that it couldn't happen with Kubo. I think it is also worth pointing out, as briefly hinted above, that what is cited for Gin's eyes being blue is not part of the canon story, but instead is a simple illustration/cover. The actual illustrations of Gin within the canon story are pure black and white. This is contrasted with the fact that every time we see Gin's red eyes in the anime, it is during the active, canon story. If the one illustration/cover stands as absolute canon over the anime, then we should add in a new section titled "Music" with a text saying something to this effect: At some point during the story, Gin was dressed in a snazzy suit, listening to a Bleach soundtrack, and holding a pair of headphones with the index and middle fingers of his left hand. Why not? After all, this is exactly what you see on the cover of Bleach Beat Collections: Vol. 5. Therefore, if covers count as canon story material, the new section with said important information should added pronto! Jrutled3 21:12, May 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * In addition to what I wrote above, I would like to quote from the "Anime Policy" that Tinni keeps referring to.


 * "1.) Manga always trumps Anime (Though only in clearly defining circumstances) ... 2.) Anime is considered Secondary Source Material, as it is using characters and story material and background based on work down by Tite Kubo with his support."


 * Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure that the term "Manga" inherently includes information derived from the covers no more than "Anime" inherently includes information derived from the intro/credit animations. Therefore, I propose that the "Blue Eyes" cover is not to be considered canon material which trumps the consistent anime by the fact that: 1) It's contrary to the consistent "red eyes" of the anime (which is done with Kubo's support; see Anime Policy #2), and 2) It is cover material only, and not part of the manga story any more than the intro/credit animations are part of the anime's stories. It is evident to me that the cover does not qualify as "Clearly defining circumstances" and, therefore, Gin's eyes should be labeled as "Red." Jrutled3 21:27, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

What is with people and their fixation on an error! Look, manga covers are drawn and coloured by Kubo and Kubo only. They are considered Canon and always have been as they have always been under the sole control of Kubo Tite. End of story. I am also closing this topic because I am sick to death of people bringing-up ridiculous points that have nothing to do with anything. Kubo coloured Gin's eyes blue. If he approved of the anime teams depiction of Gin's eyes as red, he could have coloured it red on the cover (since volume 20 came out after the anime team did its shinanigans). He did not, so manga canon says Gin's eye is blue. Tinni  (Talk)  01:39, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

PS. And no, Kubo does not have "control" over the Anime team. The studio can hire him to consult for them and I am sure the studio would differ to this wishes 9/10 times. However, to say Kubo "controls" the anime team is false. Only thing he controls is the manga, including the manga volumes and their covers. 01:39, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Right, I know this discussion is close (I closed it myself) but in light of new evidence, let me add to it one last time. As of Episode 270, Gin has BLUE eyes in the anime. As seen from the screenshot on the right, which comes from the Arrancar Encyclopedia segment of said Episode. I hope this will put an end to this pointless debate once and for all. Now if you'll excuse me, fangirl code demands that I screem "kawaii" in a high pitched voice at the sight of Gin's baby blues. Tinni  (Talk)  10:18, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

Gin's Bankai Speed
Gin reguards his bankai's speed by the time in which it takes two forces-his hands-to make impact, not sound. He references vision in the next page "500 times what you just saw." Despite the obvious factor you can't see sound, I don't believe he would reference sound with his hands when he is infact speaking too him as well. It would be mere assumption to claim he was reffering to anything but the clap. Nonetheless verbly telling Ichigo his sword is 500 times faster than sound would be far more dramatic on Kubos behalf, desipte anything being 500 times the speed of sound remaining about as redundant as the phrase "tweleve noon." Whewts 20:19, April 16, 2010 (UTC)Whewts


 * There may be an issue with the translation, as a different scan suggests otherwise. When we get a more reliable translation (from Cnet and Ju-Ni), then it will be updated to reflect their translation, as they are the most reputable and reliable translators for Bleach. Hopefully we'll have Cnet's translation by tomorrow. -- Yyp (Talk) 21:25, April 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure that Gin was indeed referring to the speed of the sound. In the panel where he's clapping his hands, Gin is distant and to the side in the image - most of the space is taken up by the onomatopoeia of the clap. He then asks if "it" reached Ichigo; this would only make any real sense if he were referring to sound. Like Yyp said, it could be a translation error, but judging by the visual context, I really doubt it. Mohrpheus 00:03, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Cnet translation is out. ''Gin: Five hundred times... // ...that speed. // Kamishini no Yari isn't the Zanpakutou with the "ultimate length". // It's the Zanpakutou with the "ultimate speed". // But even now you know... // ...you still don't stand a chance.'' Tinni   (Talk)  00:08, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

All of which aren't evidence but mere observation, thus leading to asumptions Mor. And yes, he asks if it reached Ichigo, which could mean various things. It's clear "did you hear" would obviously be the elaboration on sound, he could possibly be reffering to comprehension as well. Which is a great possibility considering he then elaborated after stating so. Visual context and written context are two different things. To suggest even Ichigo would be able to block then dodge a bankai that moves at even the speed of light is a tad far fetched; nonetheless, 500 times that speed requires it's own word. Granted his bankai increases his speed, it's still not light speed.

Moving on to Tinni, it still seems to be sketchy, but I think that translation makes it a bit more clear by "that speed" he's reffering to the clap. Whewts 02:35, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

First off 12 noon is not redundant, if you know what's the context behind it. (12 o'clock is either 12 noon or 12 midnight, as it is meant to differentiate between two separate times with in the 12-hour clock). Secondly this is a matter of simple logic and whats written and the context. The argument your making is based on personal belief. The context is clear Gin is talking about his zanpakuto as he had been before its release. It is also clear that the conversation is about speed. He states that he will show him how fast it can reach him and claps. Then asks Ichigo if it had reached him. Then states its five times that. There is no other meaning in the context of the conversation on the zanpakuto and speed. Gin wouldn't need to question Ichigo's comprehension he already knows he knows its about the speed not the length. He's showing him how fast, how can anyone measure the speed of a clap its different for every individual and that ridiculous to base a explanation on something so simple it has no bearing on accuracy. He obviously was making a reference to sound asking him if it reached him (from the distance ichigo was at) after stating he would show him how fast it could reach him. Clapping his hands has no other connotation than making sound in this instance. He elaborated because this is Bleach, they always seem to elaborate on things they explain, it wouldnt be the first zanpakuto we learn about this way. As shown the swing he can block as any other sword but not the extension ability from the point. Hence why Ichigo noticed and was worried about it. Besides the fact this isn't Ichigo where talking about, so it doesn't matter how fast he moves. The only question is from the translation we need to find out if the number is given correctly. As 500 doesn't properly register under speed of sound. 5 or 5.00 would make more sense, making it hypersonic and full plausible in fantasy/supernatural fiction as an ability just as it is for planes in the real world.Salubri (Talk)  03:31, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Cnet says "You hear that? Five hundred times that speed" (in words, not numbers), while Ju-Ni's translation is not out yet. I changed the wording in the Plot section to reflect what was stated. For the P&A section, I think we should just put it down the way it was said, without specifying that it is "170,145 meters per second, arriving at its full length of 13km in under 0.08 seconds", as that was never mentioned in the story. Yyp (Talk) 10:35, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know that makes no sense you can't measure the speed of a clap and its not particularly fast either. As I said determining that he is talking about sound its best to find out from translation that someone who can explain it versus just another translation online. We need to know in what reference of is talking about. In the real world the guy with the world record for the most claps in sixty seconds is 793. We have to take into account its a bankai, claimed as the fastest. It has to rival or surpass Ichigo's hyper speed combat in bankai as shown and possibly some levels of shunpo. We should wait till we have something to put.Salubri (Talk)  13:15, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Adam went through the translation and has determined that from the characters used and their meanings Gin was in fact talking about the speed of sound (i.e. the amount of time the sound of his clap took to reach ichigo). The initial concept is therefore correct. Salubri (Talk)  03:36, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Length vs. Speed
The translation said that that makes his sword not the longest but the fastest. I think it would be more accurate to say "not JUST the longest, but ALSO the fastest"... what do you think? Cepheids 14:22, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

At least two source state "It's not the longest zanpakuto its the fastest zanpakuto". Therefore what you state is not what he says regardless of what anyone feels is the accurate way of saying it considering the likelihood that it is the longest, the point in the conversation he was getting at is that the conversation was about the speed. They had already determined the length wasn't the important aspect. Its therefore accurate the current way. Salubri (Talk)  15:30, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

Technically, Gin's Bankai isn't the longest Zanpakutō. Byakuya's Senbonzakura, petal for petal, is probably longer. Rangiku's Haineko is probably even longer if you lined up all the ash. Gold3263301 22:21, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

Speed of Extension and Contraction in Bankai
What was the formula for getting its exact (or very close, at least) extension and contraction speed?--Gold3263301 20:55, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

The speed of sound under ideal conditions in the air is about 343 meters per second. 500 times that is 171,500 meters per second, which is more than the length of Kamishini no Yari. To get the rate of travel, you must divide 13,000 (the length of the bankai) by 171,500 (how fast 500 times the speed of sound is). It comes out to about 0.076 rounded up to the nearest thousands (which is more accurate than 0.08) or 670 milliseconds.

To give a comparison of how fast that is, the act of blinking takes about 300 to 400 milliseconds.

Of course, sound travels faster in water than it does through air but that is a conversation for another place.--Shinitenshi 00:40, May 9, 2010 (UTC)