Bleach Wiki talk:Masked Project/Archive 1

New translations
Yeah I had a strange feeling when viz translated apache as apachi. I think someone at shueshia(their parent company) gave them the heads up on that so it would not need to be changed later. So, I have a feeling that any of the names viz has translated in the last two months are the official name spellings. But, man if this is really legit than the next few weeks editing-wise will be complete and utter HELL. But, man if we think we were screwed...poor viz! Everything manga and anime name wise might be completely wrong, I mean manga you can re-print with an updated translation...but anime... aww man! But again for all we know this could have all been photoshopped for a good laugh(sick people) and before we change anything lets wait for one of us to get a copy of masked. --Lemursrule (talk) 22:56, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think Viz cares. After all, aren't they the folks who gave us "Cero = 'doom blast,'" and continue to misspell it as Sero in subtitles XD? Adam Restling (talk) 02:35, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

No, they use cero in the subtititles and they only used doom blast in volume 22 and never used it again. In all of their manga and subbed and dubbed releases they use cero.--Lemursrule (talk) 03:28, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I saw it still misspelled as "Sero" in the subtitles of one of the latest anime volumes released in the US, when Yammy was about to shoot one at Yoruichi I believe it was.

But you're right; overall, when not taken with flights of fancy like "doom blast"/"doom cero"/"cero," they spell several things pretty correctly. I abhor all the inconsistencies with say, ô alongside o alongside oh alongside ou, but then, all translators from the beginning unto forever fail at that, so it's not just Viz. Adam Restling (talk) 05:43, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

New birthdays
Apparently Arrancars have birthdays, well I guess their birthday is the day they became Arrancars. --Lemursrule (talk) 00:07, August 3, 2010 (UTC) Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  21:42, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ulquiorra December 1st
 * Grimmjow July 31st(Leo makes sense)
 * Nnoitra November 11th
 * Tesla/Tesra May 13th
 * Neliel April 24th
 * Yammy April 3rd
 * Luppi June 5th
 * Pesche May 25th
 * Dondochaka June 30th
 * Loly January 27th
 * Menoly December 7th
 * Cirucci February 27th
 * Dordoni August 28th
 * Zommari October 13th(goes with his whole voodoo theme)
 * Aaroniero April 23rd
 * D.Roy June 19th
 * Shawlong November 4th
 * Edorad August 25th
 * Yilfordt June 22nd
 * Nakeem August 3rd(day before my b-day)
 * Wonderweiss July 6th
 * Iceringer/Aisslinger November 23rd
 * Demora July 27th
 * Szayel June 22nd
 * Gantenbein September 21st
 * Shinji Hirako May 10th (Mother's Day?)

How are October 13th and Voodoo related?Erik1310 (talk) 13:41, August 5, 2010 (UTC) October 13th is a reference to the term friday the 13th, the unluckiest day in the year. When October 13 falls on a Friday, in urban legends it is considered more unlucky than usually, thus the term "bad voodoo." All of Zomari's attacks are based on Louisiana Voodoo. --Lemursrule (talk) 16:20, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Here are the rest of the Vizard's birthdays (well, I guess it's Visoreds now) except for Hachi. Also Ginrei's b-day came in that Pendulum data picture. I hope I got them right

Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  07:17, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Love October 10th
 * Rose March 17th
 * Kensei July 30th
 * Mashiro April 1st
 * Hiyori August 1st
 * Lisa February 3rd
 * Ginrei Kuchiki June 2nd

Thanks for those. All the ones in the current list have now been added, but in future please add any newly found birthdays to the Bleach Wiki:Masked Project rather than the talk page. There is no need for two lists. 13:00, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

The "Soul Reapers" (< Kubo's preferred term?)
In case this was missed on the Translation page:

Jinemon Kotsubaki (小椿刃右衛門 Kotsubaki Jinemon)¹ "blade-guard gates | small camellia"

Chikane Iba (射場千鉄 Iba Chikane)² "thousand-iron/ore(s) | shot range"

The previous Kenpachi was Kiganjou (鬼厳城) "demon-harsh castle"; his former name was Gosuke (五助) "five(fold?) aid(e)" (cf. previous discussion of the name suffix -suke)

Soujun Kuchiki (朽木蒼純 Kuchiki Soujun) "blue-pure | rot tree"

Marenoshin Oomaeda (大前田希ノ進 Oomaeda Marenoshin) "phenomenal-advance | great before the (rice) field"

¹The sequence (右)衛門 -emon itself seems clearly inspired by names like that of the famous Japanese folk hero Goemon Ishikawa, as it is likely, also, in Iba's first name.

²The same element 鉄 tetsu, kane "iron, strong" appears in both Tetsuzaemon and Chikane's names. The unusual reading kane for the graph may have been to emphasize the intended significance of "strong metal (in general)."

Maybe I'll include some trans. when I've more time... y'know, just for kicks! (a.k.a. pointlessly) XD Adam Restling (talk) 03:20, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I did it XD. However, if there are some hidden linguistic puns beyond the more-lit. trans. that I missed, please forgive me :). Adam Restling (talk) 03:20, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Here are some pics of Kubo's soul reapers--Lemursrule (talk) 05:03, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

In case people are a little confused about this one, we will never, ever, ever use Soul Reaper as it is not a romanization but an adaptive translation of the Japanese term "Shinigami" (the literal translation of Shinigami is Death (Shini) God (kami/gami)). We will stick to the Japanese word "Shinigami". Indeed, where possible, we will always use the original Japanese term such as Jigokuchō (for hell butterfly), Kidō etc. In fact, I encourage you all to go through the wiki and flag any articles that are not using the Japanese term for a name change/page move. Thank you. Tinni  (Talk)  03:44, August 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, but then also "Visored" is such an adaptive translation of Kamen no Gunzei, "Arrancar" is an adaptive translation of Yamen, etc. If the intended reading is meant to be "Soul Reaper(s)," then apparently that's what it should be, even as the intended readings Visored and Arrancar etc. are--despite the odd circumstances (i.e. Kubo not doing as he does with the other terms and, say, writing it as "死神 (ソウル · リーパー) Souru Rīpā"). But if we reject "Soul Reaper(s)" because it's such an adaptive trans., we run the risk of opening a Pandora's box with regard to similar adaptations, which proliferate in BLEACH. Adam Restling (talk) 03:22, August 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * O no, no, that's not what I meant to imply at all! I meant we use Shinigami because that's what the characters say in the original Japanese. I mean, if you watch the original anime, you can hear the characters saying "Shinigami". Just like you can hear the characters saying "Arrancar" and "Visored". What I meant was that we know how to write Shinigami, a word that pre-dates Bleach, in English. Which is different from Visored, which is a modified non-Japanese word and so we don't really know how we are suppose to write it in English. If that makes sense... Tinni   (Talk)  03:29, August 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, my question regarding this is: Can "Shinigami" translate to "Soul Reaper" as well, or is it just limited to the literal translation as "Death God"? Because if it can, then what we could have is something like: . This itself wouldn't change our site's standards, but it also wouldn't neglect the "Soul Reaper" translation as just "Viz's". Arrancar109 (Talk)  03:33, August 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Arrancar109 you were apart of this decision when we made it so why are you backtracking. very few people ever brought this up and its mostly people who wanted to americanize everything and had not appreciation for japanese. SoulS says Soul Reaper too its a dumbed down version of whats supposed to be stated. What your asking would allow horrible mistranslations and changes all over the site. Salubri (Talk)  03:41, August 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was simply asking if it were a possible translation, not that we go around and use "Soul Reaper" everywhere where "Shinigami" is already listed. My mind hasn't changed about that; we're keeping that the way it is. I was only asking if it's a possible translation and not just something that Viz came up with, or in this case, something that the databook is just referencing. Arrancar109 (Talk)  03:51, August 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, now I understand what Tinni meant, that "Shinigami" is the term actually spoken, and written without further modification (such as occurs with the other terms), in the original Japanese forms of the manga and anime. Frankly, Shinigami ("death-numen[/ina]/spirit[s]" [sometimes more generalized to "-god"]) as "soul reaper(s)" would be an extremely liberal trans. (equivalent to Macross > Robotech XD); a Japanese form "soul reaper(s)" would be better as 魂刈 Tama(shii)gari. Even though the concept of the Shinigami was supposedly imported from the European "Grim Reaper" concept during the Meiji period, at most this would mean Shinigami could liberally be trans., also, as "Grim Reaper(s)," but not "Soul ~" (which is a term without such historical/folkloric precedent). In summation, "Soul Reaper(s)" seems to be just a *kewl*, extremely liberal rendering of Shinigami Kubo made up--just too late to incorporate into his own canon usages in most cases.


 * The current assertion, confirmed in English even in the Japanese form of MASKED, would seem to be that Kubo had a change of heart, too late to amend it in the volumes already in print, that he actually wanted to pull an Arrancar ~ Yamen-style nuancing with the word Shinigami + "Soul Reaper(s)." But, like I said, it was too late, so all the Japanese written (in-manga) and spoken (in-anime) forms have only "Shinigami." In a way, it's a pity, since the Shinigami seem alone in this respect, as (almost?) all the other major (canon) classes of being in BLEACH are so nuanced.

I believe Jinnemons is more accurate (with two N since the hiragana says Ji-n-ne-mo-n instead of simply Ji-ne-mo-n). An N to go together with the I sound in order to make it nasal and another one to form the ne sound. - Fraccion (talk) 02:42, August 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Where are you seeing a second n ? There's only JI- N -E-MO-N in the picture. Adam Restling (talk) 03:00, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

New Char. profiles images
i've uploaded them here for when the articles are finally created. --RexGodwin (talk) 23:45, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Why you flipped image of Chikane, Soujun and Kenpachi? Soujun wore kenseikan on the left side, but your picture show the opposite. Same for Chikane's gray locks. I think that pictures must be replaced.--Layol (talk) 09:52, August 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * The images have been fixed. 12:26, August 6, 2010 (UTC)