Talk:Sōsuke Aizen/Archive 2

Aizen's Third Form
Uhh... shouldn't his new Butterfly form be added by now? Please don't tell me we're waiting again for this whole "direct translation" thing. --Seireitou-shishō (瀞霊冬川平) 00:29, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Im not sure myself but I think it is because we have no idea what it is. Aizen has not said that it is the hogyoku again. We know nothing of it. For all we know it could be his bankai--God (Pray)  00:32, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

For now, can we label it Aizen's Seraph Form. superlogan7437 (talk) 17:30, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

The new form will simply be called the Second form outside the chrysalis form, plain and simple we aren't gonna make up names. Salubri (Talk)  00:02, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Second form powers and abilities
yeath do we have any indication whether this forms powers and abilities are greater or equal to the fully evolved form and if not than cant we start adding something since we got a look of what it could do last chapter like its speed Peinuchiha (talk) 18:43, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

There's nothing to add. We don't know if he really did show any increase in speed between his forms. Many characters weaker than Aizen have surprised characters on the same caliber as them with their uses of Flash Steps/Sonído/Hirenkyaku/etc, which regardless of skill level, can be used to achieve great distances in a short amount of time. At this point, listing an alleged increase in speed would be speculative at best. Arrancar109 (Talk)  18:53, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

On a similar note, should the forms just be named "first," "second," and "third" form? "Chrysalis Form" is a fan-made term, and "Fully Evolved Form" is no longer accurate, seeing as he has transformed again. Calling the newest form "Final" would be speculative as well, so naming them the suggested way would allow for the section to be expanded if necessary. Mohrpheus (talk) 22:04, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with that. It makes more sense that way. ~ Ten Tailed Fox (My User Page) 00:21, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Invention section?
Should he be given an invention section like Urahara and Mayuri for having created his own Hogyoku? The latest chapter states that he made his own Hogyoku and merged it with Urahara's to complete it.  ~ ~ Ten Tailed Fox   &lt;t al k &gt; 02:42, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it would be a good idea. Urahara and Mayuri have invention sections because they have both invented many things. Aizen, invented one thing and so until we learn that he created something else(soul society? the world? reality?), I say we don't create this section--God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  03:12, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Well, technically we could also include Wonderweiss under such a section if it were made. Aizen did specifically say that he modified him for the sole purpose of countering Ryujin Jakka, after all. Mohrpheus (talk) 03:19, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, and there are also the products of his Hollow experiments, like Metastacia and the Hollow(s) that can hide its Reiatsu. MarqFJA (talk) 03:42, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not to mention that all current Espada, other than Aaroniero Arruruerie, are a direct result of his Hollowfication experiments (even though Aizen can be attributed to Aaroniero's power because he created the Hollow that ate Kaien, which in turn gave Aaroniero his power). I think it would be perfectly legitimate to add this section.  <font #800080">~ <font color="#800080">~ <font color="#008000">Ten <font color="#000080">Tailed <font color="#808000">Fox   &lt;<font color="#800080">t <font color="#800080">al <font color="#800080">k <font color="#800080">&gt; 04:37, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not that much into it. If all those Hollows he experimented on were a valid reason to give him an Inventions section, he would have got one a long time ago. Experimenting and Inventing are different things. The only thing he actually created was this first incomplete "Hogyoku". He experimented on a lot of Hollows and gave them special abilities but those aren't inventions per say. As for the Espada, he just used the power of the Hogyoku to transform then into Arrancars, that isn't even experimenting. He didn't "invent" the Arrancars, he used the Hogyoku to give them power. -- Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  04:45, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Im not particularly in favor of it. I just don't think what he has "invented" warrants a section. I won't oppose it but I just don't think it is necessary--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  04:48, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Even if only his Hogyoku is included, I believe that it is plenty to justify it. Akin to the characters that have equipment sections with just one short entry, for example. However, you're right about the experimenting thing, so my opinion goes both ways. Mohrpheus (talk) 05:22, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll support whatever decision is made, but the user above me is correct. Characters get equipment section for one object that they hold, such as Starrk's sword, so why can't Aizen get an invention section for one invention?  <font #800080">~ <font color="#800080">~ <font color="#008000">Ten <font color="#000080">Tailed <font color="#808000">Fox   <span style="cursor:help;" title="Go to Ten Tailed Fox&lt;span _rte_entity=">' s Talk Page." _rte_attribs=" style=cursor:help; title=Go to Ten Tailed Fox's Talk Page."&gt;<font color="#800080">&lt; <font color="#800080">t <font color="#800080">al <font color="#800080">k <font color="#800080">&gt; 14:55, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I believe he also invented the Caja Negación. Tinni  (Talk)  15:01, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's true, it's a device used by his Arrancar.  <font #800080">~ <font color="#800080">~ <font color="#008000">Ten <font color="#000080">Tailed <font color="#808000">Fox   <span style="cursor:help;" title="Go to Ten Tailed Fox&lt;span _rte_entity=">' s Talk Page." _rte_attribs=" style=cursor:help; title=Go to Ten Tailed Fox's Talk Page."&gt;<font color="#800080">&lt; <font color="#800080">t <font color="#800080">al <font color="#800080">k <font color="#800080">&gt; 15:05, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Upon reviewing Mayuri's Invention section (which is called Research and Invention section for some reason...) it occurs to me that we can actually list three things in Aizen's invention section,


 * Hogyoku
 * Caja Negación
 * Hollowfication Virus - if Mayuri get's credit for "data-gathering bacteria", which for some reason has the totally made-up name of Data Gatherer, I don't see why Aizen doesn't get credit for his hollowfication virus.

We can add "Modified Arrancar" to the list and include Wonderweiss but I am borderline on that. Tinni  (Talk)  15:15, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, I'll write up the section and add some references and see what you guys think.  <font #800080">~ <font color="#800080">~ <font color="#008000">Ten <font color="#000080">Tailed <font color="#808000">Fox   <span style="cursor:help;" title="Go to Ten Tailed Fox&lt;span _rte_entity=">' s Talk Page." _rte_attribs=" style=cursor:help; title=Go to Ten Tailed Fox's Talk Page."&gt;<font color="#800080">&lt; <font color="#800080">t <font color="#800080">al <font color="#800080">k <font color="#800080">&gt; 15:43, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Teleportation
yeah umm i saw that someone added teleportation to aizen third forms ablities section but i read somewhere else that his speed just incresed even more so so were eather of these just speculation and if so should someone delete teloportation from aizen page since it hasnt been stated in the manga yet or not

Yeah, I'll take it down, it is speculation to say it is teleportation--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  00:26, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

ok thenPeinuchiha (talk) 00:33, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Translation Problem
In the newest chapter, I am having a problem with the translation. The sentence goes as follows.

Strangely enough, it seems that the appearance quite similar to the agglutination of our right arms and zanpakutos has brought forth an evolutionary discovery.

The problem that I have is with the word "agglutination". As an English major, I know what agglutination is, the adding of affixes to words. For example, the word fear. When agglutinated, it can become fearful or fearless, depending on the affix used.

Having said that, to me, agglutination doesn't seem appropriate in this translation. A better word would be amalgamation, which is the combination of multiple entities. I know that Blinktopia is a fast translator and they add their own flourish to the process. But I am just wondering if there is a better translation to this sentence. --Shinitenshi (talk) 16:02, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

The Translation you are referring to is a quick release translation which is never 100% accurate. On this wiki we usually give more authority to the translations from Ju-Ni, these take longer to be released but are on the whole more accurate. Wait till Monday and the translation may be different. GinIchimaru (talk) 16:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

The official translation by Ji-Ni states "strangely enough, it seems we have both uncovered the conclusion of our evolutions in similar forms."--<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  14:01, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Aizen's spiritual power
One question. why in Aizen spiritual power section of his 3 form dosen't have the title "overwhelming" like Ulquiorra's? By now we can see that Aizen reiatsu is miles away from anything Ulquiorra can muster! Appreciate an answer. Darksusanoo (talk) 20:04, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ulquiorra's "Overwhelming" is not meant to be above Aizen's it is a different designation that describes its nature, not its power. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  20:08, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Because no one has said his spiritual pressure is overwhelming. The reason we lis Ulquiorra's segunda etapa reiatsu as overwhelming is because Ishida said it was overwhelming--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  20:10, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, when Tatsuki was comparing Ichigo's to Aizen's, she said that Aizen had overwhelming spiritual pressure. SilverRain (talk) 20:40, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

At last someone noticed that.i think Aizen's reiatsu should also be given the "overwhelming" designation: people were crumbling into dust just being near him! Darksusanoo (talk) 00:22, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

We can't change it to that for one Tatsuki isn't really a authority on spiritual pressure as well it was just mentioning what she was feeling. The continual description of his spiritual power as enhanced should be fine as long its placed under the proper form. Overwhelming isn't a designation that we use and comparison to Ulquiorra isn't meant or warranted. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  14:01, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Aizen's Speed
Isn't it possible that we should add something about Aizen's speed and how he moved behind Ichigo to his Third form section? SilverRain (talk) 22:03, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Add it if you want, just follow the manual of style and reference it--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  22:13, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

I have my doubts whether its speed or teleportation.........he moves in the same way to find Gin after he stole the Hogyoku and he appeared to just dissapear and reappear in thin air with a flash of light. just a doubt though. Darksusanoo (talk) 00:26, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

Ok that doubt aside we can tell that Aizen's mobility has increased significantly, he pretty much warps from place to another, even Ichigo took a second to notice where Aizen had moved. That is something worth noting in the article. Darksusanoo (talk) 00:27, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

The most we could say is that Aizen can "vanish in a flash of light and reappear at another location." That way, we do not outright say that it is teleportation or high-speed movement. Mohrpheus (talk) 01:23, September 7, 2010 (UTC)

Arg, protection
Whichever editor wrote the fourth form bit made a lot of typos and other errors. Here is a corrected section, sans citations:

"After Aizen is struck by Ichigo Kurosaki, the Hōgyoku forces another transformation upon him, which Aizen claims is because it 'doesn't want [him] to lose to a mere human.' In this form, Aizen gains a third, vertical eye, and the skin on his face splits upon to reveal a blackened, demonic skull. He develops three Hollow-holes running vertically down his chest, his feet become single claws, and his hands becomes blackened, with his left hand fusing with his Zanpakutō. His butterfly-like wings change into a set of six sheet-like wings, adorned with skulls, and trailing into tendrils. Aizen no longer has any semblance of clothing in this form."

You should also add that the hougyoku remains in his chest and that his musculature becomes more defined.Darksusanoo (talk) 16:15, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Glorious  CHAOS!  15:56, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I came over here to mention that too. There is a LOT of errors that need fixed. Ltjuno (talk) 16:56, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Until such time as the actual discussion on content is discussed (taking place below) nothing will be placed as far as description is concerned. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  17:04, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Forth Form - Hollow?
Alright, so as we've all seen, Aizen's newest transformation is pretty Hollow-like in appearance. He uses an attack that looks similar to Cero, though personally, I think it is something else entirely. We need to determine what exactly will go into the article, because as it stands, it is highly vulnerable to speculation. Any thoughts? Mohrpheus (talk) 15:49, September 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well I dont want to say Hollow but Hollow-like does fit and is not speculative. His current form is reminiscent of various depictions of hollow and arrancar throughout the series. It wouldn't be calling him a hollow but his form fits the bill perfectly as far as description. We should remember that description of his physical traits are entirely different from claiming him as one thing or another. Were not talking changing his species as a definite though its clear he stopped being a shinigami some chapters ago. As for his capabilities its simpler to stick to what we know from information present in the series. Cero's are fired by Hollow/Arrancar/Vizard alike. Now the use of the attack was more bala like then cero true enough. But it comes from an attached hollow mask, so whats more likely in the realm of the information we currently have. True we dont know what it was simply calling it a spiritual energy blast is useable as a generic term. We should also affirm that we dont rely on his statements of transcending as absolute fact while he does transform and change his transformations have not entirely been out of the realm of established material. we just dont know whats up to state this any more an arrogant claim.--<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  16:07, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * The current version seems fine and non-speculative to me. All that needs to be fixed are the grammar, spelling, and term errors, as outlined above. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:39, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I also agree, other than a few misses and grammar errors the version is good. I just can't think of a description for the shape of Aizen's wings. Other than that: three hollow-like holes in a vertical position with he Hougyoku at the center of the top one, blackend claw feet and left hand, right hand fused with the blade which also blackens, more defined muscles, and no clothing, hollow-like skulls on the top of the wings and tendrils at the bottom and demonic skull-like head. Yep i think that's a good description. Thoughts? Darksusanoo (talk) 00:52, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't even have to refer to them as Hollow holes. Asides from just describing his appearance in general, we could say that he is "Hollow-like" overall, considering his face and the appearance of his tentacles. It seems like his "tails" are extensions of his wings - whatever the anatomical term for the long part of a butterfly's wing, or whatnot. As for the blast, I think we should stand by listing it generically for the time being. I don't have a doubt that we'll learn more about his new form sooner or later, so we can determine once and for all whether he is a Hollow or not. Mohrpheus (talk) 01:03, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's nothing in it's section, and the page is locked? Is a mod doing some official editing? Breakingspell (talk) 03:09, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * It has been temporarily locked by the admins to prevent vandalism and speculation due to the recent events of the latest chapters. The new info will be added once it's decided how it should be worded. Lia Schiffer   (Talk)  03:11, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay, then. You know, it may be just me, but he looks like something from Prototype... His zanpaku-to being an extension of his arm and his general form and all. Breakingspell (talk) 03:21, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Issue has been handled. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  17:58, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Aizen's Speed in 3rd form
i think by now we have enough evidence to write enhanced speed for Aizen's third form or at least something involving that. Aizen used this "issapear and reappear in thin air with a flash of light" ability for the for the 3rd time and since he went into a third form it clear that the 3rd form abilities end with that so it should be written. Plus if you need info on how fast he became, than there is. First he was abe to instantly appear behind gin and slash him before he could react. plus as stated from Aizen,he has surpassd both Shinigami and hollow, thats why he was shocked that ichigo dogded him with speed he shouldnt have. So it is superior to sonido and flash steps.

How many times must we have this conversation, the only difference here is the flash of light aspect which we all can see imminates from his body around the hogyoku. His speed has shown no difference since before started transforming when he appeared out of nowhere or moved when fighting the captains and vizards or when he fought Ichigo when he first got to fake karakura town. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  18:27, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

With it being a manga, it's hard to tell exactly what is happening from panel to panel, so we can't say that it is teleportation or anything. However, seeing as he has emitted that light several times, it should be noted somewhere in that section. It definitely isn't Shunpo. Mohrpheus (talk) 19:16, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

@<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri = you are just making an assumption that his speed stayed his previous forms. Plus its more than a simple flash of light, he is breaking apart and reforming instantly and in between this process he becomes light, so i highly doubt that Kubo went through the trouble of drawing a new type of movement for Aizen only for it to be considered the same as before. Plus think about it, Aizen is already such an extremely fast character that you dont see him dissapearing cause hes already at you, so by changing his type of speed he could have been trying to out do the previous speed. All in all the "flash of light" speed was the only new ability we saw in that form so it should be documented

We could just go with enhanced speed, i think its generic enough not to be seen as speculation then change if new information comes.Darksusanoo (talk) 03:23, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Can you provide a reference to where it says he is breaking apart and then reforming? No you cannot because it is utter speculation, I agree something is new with his speed but we have no idea what exactly. Saying anything other than generic enhanced speed is speculation--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  03:25, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that we do not have enough evidence so i think at least writing enhanced speed would be ok. Plus go back and check Bleach Chapter 418 pages 6-7 or chapter 415 page 15, i just decribed what i was the best way possibe, if you can describe it better then do so cause i wasnt saying i know exactly how ith works but you cant deny it looks the way i described. plus there are aquite a few other moves that were never explained by the charachers in the past but we infer what is happening without an them explaining it such a Ulquiorra's Lanza del Relámpago he move was never explained but an explaination was made though knowing how bleach does things and observing

The description of lanza is exactly what is seen, nothing more. What is seen with Aizen is that there is a flash of light, he dissapears then reappears. That is exactly what happens. He did not disintegrate or whatever--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  04:18, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

you focusing on the chest look more to the the edges of aizen as he doing it, the portions that you se is light doent match up, plus if the chest is emiting light how come in chapter 418 page 5, Aizen broke apart from the face first can you call that light, its because hes beaking apart not just flashing light. Plus in chapter 415 page 15 you can see in the top an image of him breaking as light so in the next image you should realize he is reforming the same way. if you still dont see this we'll just have to wait for the episode to come out.

Aizen has stopped using Kyoka Suigetsu's Illusion ability alltogether.
Is It ok, for to add to Sosuke Aizens trivia? For him having stopped using Kyoka Suigetsus Illusionary abilities, to avoid being harmed? Thekindwellmeaningone (talk) 18:30, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Junk Trivia--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  18:41, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Godisme is correct. Plus we dont know that he isnt using his illusionary capabilities... Kubo could decide that Aizen has actually never evolved and has just been using his bankai or some other plot device this whole time. GinIchimaru (talk) 18:45, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Still a shinigami?
Is he even still shinigami?

Sign your posts. And we cannot say he isn't, he just implanted the Hogyoku on himself, and why he stated that he "trascended his Shinigami self" we don't know what he is right now, or if he has stopped being a Shinigami. He hasn't undergone Hollowfication, and he hasn't lost his Shinigami powers, so he'll stay Shinigami until he specifically says he's of a different species. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  00:36, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Question
Why was the blurb for Aizen's Fourth Form erased? --Reikson (talk) 14:50, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

People were complaining about it so it is removed until we can find the best way to describe it.--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  14:57, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Really? Can I see where? --Reikson (talk) 16:23, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Situation handled. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  17:58, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Aizen's strength
Hasn't Aizen's strength increased in his 4 form? in his 3 one Ichigo stopped one of his strikes without budging an inch (the force wave destroyed the ground behind them). In this one he was to knock him off and restrain him (even if Ichigo broke the grip). Any thoughts? Darksusanoo (talk) 19:52, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Information noted. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  07:33, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Undetectable Spiritual Power
With the recent release of Ju-Ni's translation, we have received a definitive explanation as to why Aizen's spiritual power could not be sensed while he was in his "Chrysalis" Form:

"Both Shinigami and Humans have become unable to feel my reiatsu unless I voluntarily lower my level and allow them to interfere..."

So basically, because Aizen is on a level beyond that of Shinigami and Hollows, he has to lower his reiatsu in order for them to feel or be affected by it, meaning that he has been intentionally suppressing it since his second transformation. How should this be worded in the article?

Also: Aizen also basically states that Ichigo's power can't be sensed for the same reason, being a level above the level above Shinigami and Hollows (lol), but I don't know if we should put that into his article or not. Mohrpheus (talk) 15:52, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe, Ichigo, being in a higher level, is able to completely hide his reiatsu, despite he had a huge amount of it. Or maybe, being in higher level, his reiatsu automatically become undetectable, even though the actual amount of it is very huge. But, I guess we'll just have to wait for Ichigo, Tensa Zangetsu, Isshin, or even Aizen himself to explain what really happened. 16:04, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Sosuke Aizen has finally lost composure.
Is It ok for me add to Sosuke Aizen's trivia? Like Gin trying to kill him? Iamnofool (talk) 23:55, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

The info about him losing his cool is already noted in his personality section, along with his arrogance. Besides, it isn't the kind of info you'd put into a trivia point anyway. Mohrpheus (talk) 23:59, September 22, 2010 (UTC)