Talk:Yammy Llargo

Different Appearance
Is it just me or does Yammy's released form look different than it did when we initially saw it all those months ago?--Godisme 03:47, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

Ira
I joined this wiki exclusively to bring up this problem, so I better see it corrected. I've never done this before so sorry if my format is wrong. Anyway, who the hell put that the Kanji for "Ira" is 怒り？　Did they even bother to check the RAWs? The kanji is 憤獸 and it translated to "Angry Beast," or more poetically, "Raging Beast." Please fix it. Here is a link to the page from the RAW. http://mangahelpers.com/downloads/read-online/22838/13

I fixed it. Who is the person who is putting the wrong information in the Espada release pages? Better question, why do these mistakes go uncorrected, except by me? It happened just recently with Barragan's command too.


 * Resolved

Yammy Rialgo is the correct translation of his name.
Thunderwitch 09:46, 20 April 2009 (UTC)His last name isn't "Riyalgo". That most likely was a mistake by the person who translated the spoilers. Thats incorecct use of the spanish language. And doesn't make sense at all. Its should be "Rialgo". Thats also a very common last name in Mexico. One Manga Translation was correct.Thunderwitch 09:46, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I think only Kubo may provides correct surname. And he provided it in manga with katakana. Here. Maybe this situation is the same as Cifer's cero, but Kubo made a desision. Yammy is Riyalgo.--Layol 11:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

You are Hilarious!!!! You do know that when he uses katana you translate it to roman right? If what you say is correct, then Halibel's name would remain Hariberu Its best to leave as is until Kubo officially releases his name in English. Until then Rialgo it stays.Thunderwitch 18:35, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I saw that. Unless you know Japanese yourself, you have NO clue what it means, and when I translated it with help from my Japanese Language teacher it is translated into the romanized version of his name. The correct English version of his name is Rialgo.Thunderwitch 18:07, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect translation of his name, the "y" isn't necessary seeing as its from the romanized version of his last name. When you translate from the raws, you translate the name and romanize it. Which is where the y comes from. Its incorrect and the correct version is from onemanga. Unless you want to prove me wrong and show me the raw and translate each Kanji. Ive took japanese for 2 years. Its incorrect.Thunderwitch 18:12, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

ア - a. ヤ - ya. If Kubo want make him RiAlgo he would use ア. He use "ri" and "ru" in Halibel because japan language have not li and l. But it obliviously have "a". And why Kubo used ヤ? So you think Annie, Franky House, Ji-ni translate it wrong but sleepyfans not? They can read Kubo 's thoughts maybe... I agree we would change surname once Kubo provide official romanized name. But why we should spin it out of thin air now if Kubo has written his name with "ya"?

Wow. So you doesn't give a damn about original plans of kubo. Spin it out of thin air is very cool

I don't have a problem with the way Kubo spells the names of his characters but you have no education in the Japanese language if you don't understand that that is the ROMANIZED VERSION OF HIS NAME. リヤルゴrougly translates into Riyarugo. Once again, Rialgo it is.Thunderwitch 20:45, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I understant this. Why "ya" in the name must change to "a"?

Its the same reason why Lilinette is romanized as "Ririnetto" Its the Japanese Language. Its hard to explain so I'll put it simple. The japanese cant pronounce certain letters and words that us english speakers can. Thats why the Romanized version of most names are completely different from the English translations.Thunderwitch 20:56, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh my god... I learned Japanese around year and perfectly know that you explain. I directly ask you Why "ya" in the name must change to "a". But you didn't ask and said only obvious information. I perfectly know that. I said something around it about Halibel. If you don't understand question I explain. Yes, Japanese language haven't la,li,lu,lo,le,si,ti and etc. And not use single consonant except n. That's why Lilinette is Ririnetto, Halibel is Hariberu, Stark is Sutaruku etc. But japapanese language have "ya' and japanese speakers can pronounce it. Same to "a". Yammy's surname written with katakana so originally this is non-japan name. That obliviously. So if he is Rialgo japanese person (Kubo in example) write it as RiArugo. And if Riyalgo as RiYArugo. So why Kubo must invent new katakana-way for RiAlgo? Ask again. Why "ya" in the name must change to "a"?--Layol 22:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Please cease with the name war. Just leave it how it is - Rialgo - and take further action if something ever comes up about it via Mr. Kubo. Seriously, Rialgo, as stated by Thunderwitch, is the romanized version, as Schiffer is romanizer from Cifer as so on. It's not a hard concept, and persuing it any further is both pointless and trivial. - HuecoMuffin 17:27 April 20, 2009


 * There is the only difference between Schiffer and it. Schiffer is written with katakana as Shifa-. And Kubo wrote Shifa-. So Schiffer is fit. But Rialgo is Riarugo, that don't fit. Odd rabbit it! I've had enough of him. Stay article as now.


 * Indeed, but the true case here is that Yammy's last name has not been confirmed in anyway, so this bug fuss and controversy over Rialgo or Riyalgo isn't needed. Just leave it as it is until Kubo changes it. - HuecoMuffin 20:08 April 20, 2009


 * Resolved

Reason : Reverted
I reverted the last edit because there is no sources/proves that's right, Yammy can as well be with Ulquiorra in Las Noche or ready to fight Captains... Mili-Cien 19:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * i also reverted the last edit cause somebody is trying to put back an apostrophe in a word that doesn't need it. i mean, why would the phrase Japanese' Kaiju's need an apostrophe with the kaiju? A kaiju's what?! i don't mean to nitpick, but the sentence doesn't seem right.--Hollow ichigo 09:59, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

?
Can someone tell me what chapter the Espada meeting was in?--Inferuno Ryuu 15:39, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

The meeting was in chapter 244 & 245.Hlp922 21:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

So wait
Considering how this conversation became a long tangent having nothing really to do with relevant talk about Yammy the conversations carried under this heading have been moved to Forum:So Wait. Salubri 17:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

His Zanpakuto
Ira means Rage in Spanish, just so whoever is editing might want to know. The End 05:51, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't know where you learn spanish from but Ira is Spanish for anger and while "rage" is "anger" anger is NOT rage nor is there a specific Spanish word for rage. WhiteStrike 08:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

0 or 0th
Which one should we use? I prefer 0th, since it does actually exist.
 * 0th doesn't exist in the numerical system so it'd be 0- Eternal Breath
 * does this make him the cera espada?--Hollow ichigo 13:09, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * No! Cera is Spanish means Wax. There is no correct way to say it in Spanish as saying Cero Espada or Espada Cero would be like saying Zero Sword or Sword Zero in English, it just doesn't make sense. But all for intent and purposes the closes think to gramatically correct would be to say he is Espada Cero as if you say Cero Espada you would exoect an "s" at the end, as saying no Swords. WhiteStrike 13:30, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Using the already established numbering system, Yammy should be called the Cero Espada. The other Espada all call themselves the spanish name for their number, followed by Espada. So Ulquiorra was the Quatro Espada, meaning Espada Four. We don't translate the word Espada, it is a proper name, which pretty much negates WhiteStrike's argument. So since we don't translate Espada to sword, Cero Espada would mean Espada Zero. In Spanish, the noun comes after the modifier in most cases, which is the opposite of English. You wouldn't write "Espada Cero" in Spanish if you wanted it to mean "Espada Zero", you'd write Cero Espada. If you wanted to use the proper English translation, it would be Espada Zero, or Espada 0. CorpusDei 20:26, 11 May 2009


 * Resolved

Rialgo or Riyalgo
Apparently someone thinks his name is "Riyalgo" in the raws. Should we change the article from "Yammy Rialgo" to "Yammy Riyalgo", or should we leave it as it is? Arrancar109 14:23, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm Trying to find the raw but yes if it turns out that that's how it is spelled than we'll cahnge it. As we know the fan scanlations we all go by are not always 100% accurate. WhiteStrike 15:35, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll go with whatever you guys decide. Salubri 15:46, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Another fanat of crappy scanlation by sleepyfans change yammy surname again. I give link to raw page for him and other stubborn persons. Here is it. Kana read as RiYArugo/--Layol 10:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Thunderwitch 18:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)"Riyarugo" is the romanized translation. Its the same as "Hariberu" just the romanized translation, but end the end its translated as, Halibel. Rialgo is the correct translation, sleepy fans had it right for once lol. This coming from someone has attended has a Japanese Language for 2 yearsThunderwitch 18:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Resolved

Suggestion: Lock
I suggest this page be locked until such time that this insanity over his name passes over or an official and undeniable source to the proper spelling of the name can be found. Otherwise, each side is just going to keep baiting at the other and constantly editing the page. This is a Wiki, not a debate forum. Official information should be used only, as no official statement can be found that no one agrees on the page should be locked as is, edits made by Admins/Sysops, until the situation can be dealt with. In the least the page should be locked so people stop bloody moving it! --Kahn Iceay 20:52, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree on this. The person who moved his name first has no proof of his justification. I think we should leave it as Rialgo until Kubo shows otherwiseThunderwitch 21:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Then could someone who's been around this wiki long enough to know an admin contact them please to get it locked?--Kahn Iceay 21:06, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I contacted the two admins WhiteStrike and Arrancar109 about it earlier. The user Layol keeps changing the page back and moving it. I'll just undo his actions and revert it back to normal if he continues we should contact a mod again. He doesn't even understand the process of translating the japanese language -sigh-Thunderwitch 21:09, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Alright. I agree that those, such as my self, who don't know how to properly translate Japanese should stay out of the debate, and that it should remain the same till something official comes around. --Kahn Iceay 21:19, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow, look at all this edit warring. Yeah, I'm gonna lock this for now, but you'll have to talk it over with mostly Salubri and WhiteStrike. I'm going to be gone for the next few hours. Arrancar109 21:29, 20 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I have been observing this issue for a while now and I am glad it is finally being resolved. I thought that the best thing to do was to leave it as is until Kubo sets it in stone, via Arrancar information or such. So thank you for finally ending this pointless and rather trivial debate! - HuecoMuffin 15:28 April 20, 2009


 * Resolved

Unlock
Alright I'm going to unlock this article now. For now, we're going to leave it as "Yammy Rialgo", so do not edit war his name again. If you do, I'm re-locking the thread. Arrancar109 22:38, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, somebody just "Riyalgo'd" it again.--Lazer81095 23:28, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

0th and 10th espada
This isn't technically true, he is the 0th espada as their are only 10 numbered 0-9. So I don't know what that 10 is supposed to represent other than his relative strength but it most certainly is not his espada number.


 * I disagree. Although it is true that Yammy stated that the Espada numbers go from 0-9 as opposed to 1-10, this has not been completely proven. The 0 status Yammy claimed could be a farse, and used as something else, such as a scare tactic or power boost which will eventually drain until he reverts back. So, 0 and 10 should stay true considering there is not enough proof to back-up something that only one individual said was true. - HuecoMuffin 19:18, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

its most likely that both are true, most likely the 10th normaly, thus the weakest, but can become the strongest after a significant time building up spritual pressure and such to become the strongest. But with this kind of build up, its mostly likely a short-lived power that doesnt last long, thus should only be used when nessessary. --CloudHiro 01:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey, everyone! I joined Wiki for one reason only. Namely, it is written on Yammy's page that (quote)He holds the rank of décima (10th) Espada prior to releasing his Zanpakutō, but becomes the cero (0) Espada after releasing(end quote). The only time Yammy introduced himself to anyone (before the day he released his Zanpakutō), was back when he was engaging Hitsugaya in Karakura. Am I the only one who noticed that it wasn't décima Espada he said at the time, but Arrancar 10 (Diez) (somewhere around 2:00 of this clip from the episode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjqNWp1tBuM&feature=related ). So, is it possible that when he is sealed, Yammy is not an espada at all? OK, that probably would be pure guessing, but can I hear your opinions...? I won't change anything by myself on this page... Auron85 17:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I doubt the Espada Cero rank, because of a few reasons, but I won't waste anybody's time with that. I gotta agree with HuecoMuffin though, because to me that would make the most sense. Espada Cero isn't a rank, but just some kind of temporary power boost.--Moe1216 13:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Honestly I think you guys are over thinking things. I think that both 0 and 10 are correct. seeing as he reaches his full power when released he jumps to the rank of 0. while unreleased he has espada level strength just not as strong as the others so 10 could be called a "temporary" rank so to speakOne eyed king 18:57, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

To go on from what Auron said, he introduced himself in the Manga as Arrancar Diez, the tenth Arrancar, not the Decima Espada. As Shawlong told Hitsugaya before, Numeros go from order of their birth. Though Shawlong says that now they go from 11 and up, there probably was a time when Aizen had the Numeross go from 1 to whatever. So, it is possible that Yammy is the tenth Arrancar who was created, just as Grimmjow was the 12th before he became the Sexta Espada. Just a theory really. Nothing substantial behind it.--Shinitenshi 05:12, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Who cares? I think its very clear he's the 10th arrancar when in a non-released form. Clearly he's also the 0 espada when he is in a released form.--Licourtrix 12:53, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Dub Voice
i think it's the guy who did the voice for Grand Fisher--Kisukeiscool100396 05:41, 3 May 2009 (UTC) Could be. I can't tell with him either. Arrancar109 05:44, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes,there the same person.

gohanRULEZ 00:36, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Makes no sense...
when yammy releases his zanpakuto, he says "i am the only espada to reach full strength with the release of his zanpakuto". but, dont most all arrancar reach their full strength when they release their zanpakuto? makes no sense.


 * Yeah, that's true, but let's not forget that Yammy isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Hopefully when the manga moves back to Hueco Mundo we'll get some elaboration on his weird release. LapisScarab 22:59, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Worthy to make a history section?
Just wondering, would a History section be worhty enought to make for this bit of info regarding Yammy's past: In his and Ulquiorra's first appearance, Yammy makes a passing comment that when he was masked he visited Karakura Town a lot. Is this worthy to make a History section, or is it just trivia? Evilgidgit 16:56, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

There really is no history to speak of a passing comment itsn't enough to make a whole section. Barragan didnt have a history section till last week when the backstory of how he came into aizen's employ was shown as well as his life before becoming an espada. A flashback event similar to barragan, nnorita, grimmjaw, szayel would have to take place or some indepth conversation of what his past was but, no not a passing comment. Its best to just wait until something more relevant is given.Salubri 17:04, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that's fine by me. That's why I asked for opinions, as I wasn't sure whether or not to put it in for just one comment. Thanks for the advise, Salubri. Evilgidgit 17:38, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo cutting his arm off
The current info on that, reading as follows: "The only time so far that Yammy's steel skin has failed him is when Ichigo Kurosaki cut off his arm during the first invasion of Karakura. This was done within the world of the living, so it may have simply been caused by the decrease in reiryoku backing up Yammy's durability; his skin would have most likely been stronger in Hueco Mundo."

Seems a lot like speculation, since its not actually shown or discussed (but Ulquiorra watching this encounter notices that Ichigo's spiritual pressure is constantly fluctuating, and at its strongest is stronger than his own.) This could also mean that a fluctuation due to Ichigo's inner hollow made Zangetsu sharp enough to slice through Yammy's Hierro. If the current explanation is to be kept, it should probably be changed to sound less like a speculation "so it may have been".--Licourtrix 06:03, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

His inner Hollow did not interfere until after Ichigo delievered the blow to Yammy's arm. Gold3263301 04:15, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't mean Ichigo's inner hollow wasn't getting closer to taking over Ichigo and thus causing his strength to fluctuate.--Licourtrix 06:15, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

While I agree with you that statement is speculative but I don't think Ichigo's inner hollow comes into it and that too is fairly big speculation. I'll change it to sound less speculative. Tinni 06:29, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

lol it is, but its more fitting with what generally happens in Ichigo's fights. I like your revision, it doesnt say that any one thing actually caused ichigo to cut through.--Licourtrix 06:32, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Simply enough Ichigo was really pissed therefore he was so angry and filled with killing intent and most importantly he was concentrating and hardening his spiritual pressure completely focused on the enemy, i think i posted a similar response in one of the forums. Also the inner hollow only appeared when he said that ichigo wasn't strong enough even though he was at the time and even managed to cut Yammy's arm it was probably to prevent ichigo from relying on his own power and caused him to lose focus and doubt his own abilities. Before I forget Cifer would have said something had he felt the inner hollows presence since he is pretty adept with prequisa and would have definitely felt the presence.--SalmanH 13:10, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Starrk's memories
Someone put that maybe one the reasons Yammy couldn't be seen in the memory is because it was animation fault. But this has been put in the anime yet, it was striaght manga, so ill change it.--Black Artist 03:07, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Is it just me or does this, "It is interesting to note that in Starrk's memories of him standing behind the rest of Espada, Yammy isn't seen with the other Espada. This either means that as the "0" Espada he was standing behind Starrk, that Yammy wasn't a Espada when this memory took place, or the memory itself was more of a symbol than a memory", sound pointlessly long-winded and extremely speculative? I say we change it to the bare facts, i.e. "Interestingly, Yammy did not appear in Starrk's memory recalling his Espada comrades". Anyone have any objections? Tinni 08:30, September 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I'd agree with that. It is too long winded & speculative. Yyp 11:08, September 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * Change made. Tinni 11:53, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

That's what I thought too.HirinThunder 06:54, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Band Names
Erm, is it even significant that the Espada have zanpakutous with names that are the same as real world bands? The names are so very generic (Anger, The Wolves, Witchcraft and Panther) that I can't see this being anything more than coincidence. Maybe if every single Espada's zanpakutou was named after a real world band this would be noteworthy and clearly deliberate by the author, but as that's not the case I don't think there's any significance to Yammy (and the other Espadas) having a weapon that's named Anger and there being a band out there named Anger. Magugag 18:07, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Stating things like that is why there is a section called trivia. I would leave it, but if this really bothers u contact Salubri or Whitestrike & ask what they think. They are admins. Minato88 18:17, October 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * I understand that trivia doesn't necessarily have to be big, but this looks like total coincidence. It's like saying that Chad (yeah, I know that's not his real name) is named after every guy in history who's ever been called Chad. That's not the case; Chad is simply a common name, and it's not noteworthy even by trivia standards to write that down. I think the same goes for the zanpakutou names (again, generic) and the band names fitting out of sheer happenstance. Magugag 19:43, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

Trivia clean-up
I consider the following trivia to be junk either because they are obvious from reading the article as a whole or because they are of limited appeal. If you disagree, make your case but do not re-add without discussion first. Tinni 12:00, October 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yammy is the first and the only Arrancar seen so far using the Gonzui technique. It may be exclusive to him. What further supports this theory is that other Arrancar don't appear to have an appetite for other souls; they are ordered only to wreak havoc in Karakura Town.
 * Yammy was the first Espada to have appeared in Bleach, the second being Ulquiorra (by a few seconds due to his relatively small stature).
 * Yammy proclaims himself to be the top Espada in Aizen's army, but he still acts like a subordinate to all nine Espada that he is inferior (or now superior) to, particularly Ulquiorra Cifer. He said that he wanted to get much stronger by consuming souls and resting so that he can be more help to Ulquiorra in battle.
 * Yammy is one of the most exposed Espada in the storyline. However, he always suffers a futile defeat of a sort. Examples would include Ichigo severing his arm off, Yoruichi squarely knocking him out, Urahara deflecting off his Bala effortlessly, and Uryū causing him to fall down the fifth tower.
 * Yammy is the only Espada whose aspect of death matches his Zanpakutō's name.
 * Yammy is one of the three Espada to have their tattoo, which show their rank, visible during their released state. The others are Aaroniero Arruruerie and Nnoitra Jiruga.
 * Yammy is one of four Espada whose Zanpakutō release names are the same as a real-world band, in this case, Ira. The others are Coyote Starrk, Zommari Leroux, and Grimmjow Jaegerjaquez.
 * Out of all the Espada, Yammy has engaged in battle with the most main characters. He has fought Ichigo, Yasutora Sado, Orihime Inoue, Kisuke Urahara, Yoruichi Shihōin, Tōshirō Hitsugaya, Uryū Ishida, Rukia Kuchiki, Renji Abarai, and is now once again engaged in battle with Ichigo.
 * Yammy has one of the largest released forms of any Arrancar shown thus far, comparable in size to Choe Neng Poww's released form, though the two have not been shown together for direct comparison.


 * I'm all for this. Magugag 19:47, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Guess I was wrong, his last name is Riyalgo
His last name is Riyalgo. Sleepyfans got it right this time. If you look at the latest chapter, he says "Yammy Riyalgo" Just like every other translation. Boy, I feel stupid lol. I knew the Y in the romanization of his name wasn't there for the hell of it -_-Thunderwitch 03:56, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about it, we all make mistakes. I'll go ahead and make the change. Arrancar109 17:32, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Riyalgo?
did his manga profile came out?

where it's said his real last name?

someone have a pic?

Shiny-gami 18:43, October 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * It was an error, and the user who supported it thought it was a mistranslation, since the guy who translated his last name at the time it was first revealed to be wrong from time to time. However, the user who supported it admitted he/she was wrong and that Riyalgo is the right spelling. Of course, if a character page that comes out stating otherwise, then we will change it. Until then, we're accepting "Riyalgo" as the proper spelling. Arrancar109 20:45, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Black Cero
It states that his Cero is black in his released state. However, couldn't this just be a result of the fact that the manga pages (generally) are gray scale, and we aren't usually given a clear indication of color? For all we know, it could be a dark red or other dark color.

I read back through that chapter (378) and neither he nor any of the other characters say it's black in color. It seems to me like someone wanted to make a preemptive comparison of it to Cero Oscuras without any foundation for doing so. However, before I remove it, I wanted to see if there had been a legit reason for adding it. Twocents 20:37, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I think it would be worth it to mention that the cero is darkly colored, since every other cero in the manga (sans Cero Oscuras of course) has been colored lightly. However, as you said, until it is colored in the anime, we cannot jump to any conclusions. Mohrpheus 20:40, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Seems logical. People made the same mistake with Ichigo's second Hollow form's cero by calling it white before it was actually artistically confirmed (via colored page) to be violet. Arrancar109 20:42, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I reworded it to say that it's "dark-colored" rather than black, and I removed the comparison to Cero Oscuras. Twocents 20:46, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Alright, now this is just getting strange. As everyone knows, Yammy's latest use of Cero was colored the way as it usually is among other Arrancar. Yet, the first Cero he was charging was clearly much, much darker; I'm going to go ahead and note this in the article. Mohrpheus 01:23, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure it's noteworthy. For a couple of reasons: depending on how well the page was scanned/cleaned by the translators, pages in general can end up looking darker/lighter. And secondly, Ceros have a tendency to look darker when they're charging compared to when they're fired. So this even if it was darker when he charged it initially, that's not particularly unusual. Twocents 04:29, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

I suppose that makes sense, but when he charged it against Kenpachi and Byakuya, it was the same color as when he fired it. I doubt that scanning would turn an all-white cero black, but then again, I don't know much about the like. Perhaps another scanlation of the page would make things more clear. If it is indeed a different color, then it is worth noting in either the Abilities or Trivia section. Mohrpheus 17:29, November 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * I have seen several scans of that and they all show that the charge lines where dark. So unless it is a problem that has affected all of the scan groups, I think it was actually dark in colour. Why, I don't know - that is something we can only speculate on atm. If he dies without using the dark cero again and nobody in the story mentions it, then we can probably put it down to a (very unusual) error. --Yyp 17:39, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Edit
Can we edit yet? The chapters on everything but Onemanga and that's been slow lately.Endomarru 03:20, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Zanpakutou Release Call
Ira's release call isn't "destroy"; buchikirero is the imperative form of the intransitive verb buchikireru, "become enraged, flip out, fly off the handle," derived from the prefixion of verbal intensive buchi- to kireru, which itself means "become enraged, flip out." Tinni told me to take this up here on the Talk Page before trying to edit it again, since most people trust Sleepyfan's incorrect translation "destroy" and would end up reverting my edits in good faith. Adam Restling 22:00, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

Just to give a bit of context, this is how the scanlation groups translated his release,

Sleepyfan: Destroy

Ju-ni: Get Pissed (available on readbleach.com)

Maximum 7: Trash 'em

Cnet (translator) through Franky-house: Go Wild

In terms of repulation, Ju-ni and Cnet have the best rep. Whichever way there appears to be an issue with Yammy's release command. Tinni 22:20, November 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * That's fine, but I've gotten the meaning of buchikirero from two separate and reliable Japanese language sources. Ju-ni's "get pissed" and Cnet's "go wild" are essentially about-as legitimate (if more liberal/expressive) translations of the same basic meaning. If I was to choose a semi-neutral option, I'd use "flip out" since buchikireru is colloquial and "flip out" sounds like a good informal interpretation.


 * One thing's for sure, though: it's not "destroy." So I'm not sure why the tentative consensus on this contentious issue chose, as de facto, the translation furthest from correct. Just sayin' Viewerv. I mean no offense. Adam Restling 00:05, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm... this is a problem. Adam, can u provide some sort of proof to u'or "buchikirero" translation. It's not that Tinni and I don't trust u, but I think u know why we need that proof. Minato 20:41, December 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay. Here's some varied sources from google and my Japanese translator (the book one, being in book form, I cannot link to):


 * http://tangorin.com/words/ブチ切れる
 * http://www.kamus.com/jap-eng/BUCHIKIRERU
 * http://www.df.lth.se/cgi-bin/j-e/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PS&L=J&T=buchikireru&WC=none&FG=w&BG=b&S=26 (click entries for different transcriptions)


 * Let me know if that's enough. Adam Restling 21:45, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

That looks like enough for me, but don't and I won't change it yet. I want the Admins input on this. Minato 22:00, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

It's clearly not destroy, I think we can agree on that at this stage. The issue then is which version to go with, as there seem to be different translations. We need to settle on one. But which one is not so straight-forward. -- Yyp  (Talk)  22:18, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm.. I changed my mind. After looking at all three the first one it translates out to is "To be enraged" or "Be enraged" in accordance with Mohrpheus explanation. If so it should be this word-for-word. On Shuhei's page there was a debate about "Kazeshini" which means Wind Death. One user said it should "Wind of death", but it was pointed out that we here at this Wiki use direct translations. So it should be "To be enraged" or "Be enraged". Minato 22:25, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

"Be enraged" is still technically correct. I don't know much about Japanese, but the "to" is only there to indicate that the translation is a verb. Having the "to" in the command wouldn't really make sense. Mohrpheus 22:48, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

I am prepared to accept become enraged/be enraged as a translation of buchikireru, but Yammy says buchikirero. I have no way of confirming if it is indeed the "imperative form of the intransitive verb" as you claim, so I would like to see some evidence to back that up before we change anything. -- Yyp  (Talk)  23:28, December 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Change of the "infinitive" ending of ichidan (class one) verbs in Japanese from -ru to -ro indicates the imperative. These are the vowel-stem verbs. Check out near the bottom of the table here:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_verb_conjugations_and_adjective_declensions#Imperative


 * In the last of my above links (at 21:45), the item "(v1)" prefaced before the definition indicates that buchikireru belongs to this ichidan class. For more proof, look no further than BLEACH Wikia's own pages, e.g. here on the "Resurrección" page:


 * http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Resurrecci%C3%B3n#Known_Resurrecci.C3.B3n


 * Examples from this link include Barragan's (kuchiro, imp. of kuchiru), Apache's (tsukiagero < tsukiageru), Tesla's (uchifusero < uchifuseru), etc. Be not confused, either, by the consonant-stem verbs, which form their imperatives by change of -u to -e. Adam Restling 03:10, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * So, it should be "To be enraged" right? Srry, wasn't the best in English clas on Grammar and Verbs. Minato 13:16, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, "be enraged" would be the most accurate translation according to Adam's info. As I said before, the "to" is redundant. Mohrpheus 17:29, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

OK "Be enraged" word-for-word. I'll change it as soon as Yyp agrees, unless he is still not sure. Minato 18:09, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah. Like Mohrpheus said, the "to" in "to be enraged" is simply used, in English, to single this form out as the infinitive verb form. Most Zanpakutou release calls use the imperative, which is the verbal mood that indicates you are commanding the listener (here, the speaker's Zanpakutou) to do what the verb indicates. In a phrase like "eat something!", "eat" is being used in the imperative mood (though English doesn't usually change the verb's form for this mood). A phrase like "to eat something!" is just silly, grammatically, and makes no sense as a command. "Be enraged(!)" for buchikirero is thus best. Adam Restling 07:18, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

I haven't been keeping up on this, but instead of "be enraged", wouldn't simply "Enrage" work? It is a verb, and I think this is one case where it would work. Arrancar109 07:28, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Ok, you have me convinced about the imperative form thing. About what word(s) to use in the article - enrage can be used as a verb (though I would never expect to hear it in normal conversation), so I think we can do without the "be" as well as the "to". -- Yyp  (Talk)  09:00, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Alright I will change it to "Enrage". I actually like that, but am not sure if it is a proper translation. Minato 17:51, December 5, 2009 (UTC)