Forum:The Power of the Gotei 13

Musing's of A Shin Otaku

First off as this is my first post I would like to thank all the contributors and editors which make this site so great... I remeber when there was no bleach community in The united states and I had to be a walking billboard for this manga any who onto to the show.

 My Thoughts on Young Strawberry 

I have for the longest time figured Ichigo would be the final villian of this manga ( At least 4 years ago) and I think its finally starting to come together. I know this has been suggested before but I don't think anyone has really put all the pieces together. As I think that the change over is coming as soon as the end of this Arc (rumored to be June) I will lay out a full argument because I would love to have some feedback from all you guys who think Aizen planning all this from the start is a croc or otherwise bulls**t. First of all I must state that I think Kubo didn't know way back in the SS ark that Aizen was watching Ichigo his whole life he came up with it later. Ok enough prologue this is my theory.

Gotei 13

First of all I must state that I don't think Aizen is over powered. I know that that is in its self enough to start a flame war but hear me out. I think of the Gotei 13 as one Captain Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto and 13 military units made up of Sargents (Called Captains) their second in command (Vice Captains) right on down. I base this huge assumption on a few things first on all there is the elephant in the room and its called the Royal Guard anyone who was truely powerful would have been already promoted to this Elite unit. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that no one in the Gotei 13 is strong I'm just saying that most people of Aizen and Yami ji's level of expertise would have most likely been promoted long ago or in other words the Gotei 13 is much like the Marines of our country, the first to be deployed. Another big reason for my assumption for this is Yam ji's willingness to destroy everyone in order to defeat Aizen. Do you guys really think that he would he would have destroyed everyone if he didn't think that there was another branch that could take over the Gotei 13's role of protecting soul society and the human world. Also as evidence I would like to state the following battles which show the ineptitude of the Gotei 13 thus undermining their claim to strenght ; Ishida Vs Mayuri Kurotsuchi ,Ichigo Vs Byakuya Kuchiki ,Ichigo Vs Kenpachi Zaraki (3 out of my 5 fav battles by the way) there is no way that any of the "Captains" should have lost these battles to a couple of kids without any real combat experience. In the past the Gotei 13 was responsible for destroying the entire clan of the Quincies and your telling me a captain lost a straight up battle to one??? And then Ichigo defeats one the best swordsman (The meaning of Kenpachi) and a captain of Royal Blood. I believe this shows that the Gotei 13 is the equilavent of a triple A league right there.

My Thoughts on Aizen Sosuke

The man with the plan alot of people seem to think he is over powered or some kind of demi god I really don't think so and i have a couple of reasons. First of all I think he needs to be this strong considering that if he he can complete his plan and get the key he will go from playing with the Kanas City Mud dogs (Gotei 13) to playing with the Yankees ( The Royal Guard). Imagine 13 Yami ji level opponents (If the Royal guard has 13 captains) how could he hope to contend with them if he has trouble with the Gotei 13 it just wouldn't make sense. There is also another large Elephant in the room and they are called the Vasto Lordes yet to be officailly introduced. They are already stated as having higher than captain level Reiatsu. They must be introduced eventually and I believe once they are transformed into Arrancar they would most likely destroy the Gotei 13 therefore there must be fighters of higer calibur to face them in the future. Ok one more point on Aizen just because he is sucessful at creating the kings key does not mean he automatically becomes king of Soul Society he can win this battle without bleach ending or everyone present having to die and I'm sure someone like Kisuke Urahara or Nanao Ise has a nice trap waiting for him if he manages to make it to soul society to make the key. Also i don't think Aizen would be stupid enough to go after the king right after he makes the key anyway a man of his intelligence would most likely send scouts just as he sent Ulquiorra Cifer and Yammy Riyalgo to scout Karkura town.

My Speculation

I believe there is a reason why Aizen hasn't shown his Shikia realease to Ichigo yet. Its not because he could easily defeat him without it, to someone like Aizen this would be a pitiful reason. With so many fighter even one that could see through his ruse could be game changing. The reason is Aizen is planning on driving Ichigo to the edge of despair to draw out his true strenght and in that moment he will use his Shikai or even his Bankia (which I believe might be some kind of mind control) to bring Ichigo over to the darkside thus pulling a reverse Darth Vader (going for the son instead of the father). With Aizen, Gin, Ichigo and an Espada like force of Vasto Lordes Aizen might actually have a force worthy of Facing the Royal Guard.

That at least is what i see coming but its not like KT is whispering in my ear or anything this is just some of the possible ways he could go at this point. I look forward to the other Otaku on this site reading and reacting to my musings this is my first and no where near my last post ok boys tear me a new one...

Omegaday 11:32, March 31, 2010 (UTC)Omegaday

I think it would have been better if you made this all into a blog but anyway.. this is all interesting and makes some sense; especially with Gotei 13 being that much weaker to the Royal Guard etc. Ichigo as an enemy would be SOMETHING special. Captain Brooks 13:19, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

I did but I figured more people would see it here thanks for the advice though I will keep it in mind next time Omegaday 13:22, March 31, 2010 (UTC)Omegaday

There are some significant flaws that should be pointed out here. There is alot of speculation here but its not speculation based around the facts of the series which are conveniently ignored entirely.

The Gotei 13 = They are a military branch with Yama as the General with Various captains under him and lieutenants under them. This much is stated by the use of the word captain and the organization we have seen, they are not sergeants or some lowly nobody military force. They are the elite and true power of the Gotei 13 the only defense for Soul Society. Why a organization meant specifically to protect the king and thats only been mentioned once or twice more important then a organization that has the basic job of sending souls to there final resting place and maintaing universal balance so that the world still exists. Essentially in your view 397 chapters and 264 episodes we have been we have been watching a bunch of nobodies fly around and fight hollows and then on top of that we get deep into their character development and backgrounds with even episodes and chapters dedicated entirely to them with their name in the title but that doesn't matter because the Royal Guard exists. Im sorry it doesn't hold weight. The Royal Guard are similar to the Secret Service or the Swiss Guard. Their primary role is the protection of probably one of the most important and unseen individual in the series. But where do they come from... The Gotei 13. Does this mean the Gotei 13 aren't important no, in fact it makes sense that only captains are promoted as their skill and power make them skilled in the task. There is no evidence to suggest that makes them more powerful then Gotei 13 captains. Essentially its seems more or less like being taken out of the action as they never have to engage anyone unless directed by the King, to date we have not seen such a thing happen. Also not for the fact that Yamamoto basically states that no Shinigami in 1000 years has been born more powerful then him. We also do not know why they recruit who they recruit. For all we know it can entirely based on defensive ability or simply when someone gets tired of the job and wants to retire so they pull someone from the Gotei 13 to replace them. There maybe captains who have been offered and denied promotion, who knows but it cant be stated that they only require the most powerful we dont know their capabilities in comparison to the Gotei 13. Your placing importance on a group that is currently less important then the kids Ichigo goes to school with. As far as Yama's intentions on destroying everything, Aizen is a slippery character always getting away or blocking, dodging. He needed to do something that was gonna get him and take him out plain and simple. Its been discussed that Gotei 13 is pretty much it otherwise they wouldn't have bothered coming out in force at all. When the military falls the Secret Service doesn't come out and protect the country. Yes the Royal Guard are probably more like the navy seals but to date we haven't seen one and whose to say their a big group at all. Your also right all those captains shouldn't have lost there battles. But blame the guy who created those scenario's as the same guy involved in most of the battles Ichigo has moments where he can take them and moments where he gets beaten seriously. Ichigo is written as character whose power is fluctuating up and down and inconsistent. That inconsistency is shown in the captains as well with their techniques alot of the time falling short or them not making the best decisions. Kubo wrote them as elite and powerful and has a tendency to downplay that power and then play it up in the series, confusing many of use as to whether or not these elites are powerful or not. But its how he does it but that provides no real backing to your claim, because their are gains in there as well as loses and circumstances behind why. Its not so simple and I doubt its meant to be.

Aizen = He essentially overpowered this has been stated by fans and critics alike since the SS arc. Villains in general can be powerful but its not so much the power that makes them great even if they dont have it they are fearsome because of their intellect, goals and willingness to do evil. Prime example Superman is basically as powerful as a god in some respects and his main villain is a genius whose only human. Does Superman win alot sure does he lose alot sure. Lex Luthor is a great bad guy but with all his intellect he has flaws. Aizen doesn't seem to possess any. He has a zanpakuto that all you have to do is see and your placed under illusions. Now in a world where everything is a sword fight thats unbelievably fair as there is no way to defend against that. Whats worse is that it has no weakness, so how do you combat something like that. No one is saying he can't be powerful but there has to be a limit, the good guys gotta get something to even if its a little bit. Is he intellectual of course, but to blatantly know everything and how everyone will react to every situation is impossible. So what we are left with is a character with no flaws and all the right powers and abilities to make him interesting but that only goes so far before the story can't go anywhere with the other characters and their interactions with him. This wouldn't make him a bad character it would make the story less one sided, to not even be able to touch him or land one blow doesn't do to much for the story advancement, whats the point of fighting someone like that. Once again you through in the one mentioned Royal Guard, they have one job and thats protection of the king. You have no verification of this its almost like your writing the story that makes sense to you but it has no basis in fact from what we know. Its a big leap your making. No where is it ever said Vasto Lorde have higher then captain level reiatsu, its said that their combat ability is higher then a captains and thats according to Hitsugaya, who knows how accurate that is. Not all captains are equal in strength neither are all hollows of the same level. Also to create the key he would have to destroy a main setting of the story. Ichigo's family and friends and all that. But once again another way for you discount loads of chapters and episodes featuring these individuals. Salubri (Talk)  14:25, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

I was expecting this from you Salubri (Aizen grin ^^); I'll keep this very simple as opposed to your lenghty rebutal.

The BIG issue here is what is known versus possibilities; if you read over your post you will realize that a lot is riding on possibilities; for e.g. We know very little about the Royal Guard; their purpose besides protecting the Soul King, their abilities, their numbers, how they got promoted, why they got promoted, if you can even refuse to work for the Soul King, if some are on par with Genryusai; note he says more powerful than and not "equal to" or "even a bit less powerful than", and Toshiro's knowledge and trustworthyness in his statement about Vasto Lordes.

I'm not saying your post was wrong but just somethings are more questions than answers; with many things being stated having necessary things left out which we don't currently know.

I want to ask you; how many Captains/ Vice Captains/ Seated Officers do you think would be able to take on a Vasto Lorde or even a Vasto Lorde class Arrancar one on one??? If the Vasto Lordes do come into play; I am sure as can be that the Gotei 13 will not be the ones to deal with them; and I'm sure if you think about it.. you will agree. The only solution is for the yet unseen Zero Division (whom I believe are all stonger than average Captain class shinigami) to enter the fray and save the world. As seen by the elite of the Gotei 13; Adjuchas class Arrancar are enough of a threat to cause serious damage to them. Captain Brooks 15:01, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

I am loving this already thank you Brooks Taicho and Salubri for responding as this is my first post

@Salubri I concede that this is all my speculation but to say that I ignored the facts of the series completly is a gross exaggeration and many of the things you stated are in complete agreement with me I am by no means saying that the Gotei 13 are unimportant I am simply stating the fact that while the Captains who serve the Royal guard were captains the current Captains of the Gotei 13 were seated officers, Vice Captains, still in the academy, just regular plus souls with larger than normal Reiatsu or even still alive in the world as a living human. Therefore the former Captains which now serve the Royal Guard have had longer to train and increase their powers and most likely helped trained the current group of Captains. Plus the academy was created 2100 years ago so there is another 1100 years before that period when there could have been Shingamis born who were stronger than yami ji

Omegaday 18:14, March 31, 2010 (UTC)Omegaday