Talk:Zangetsu (Zanpakutō spirit)

Adjuchas-class or higher?
I think that the note about possibly being an adjuchas should be removed, because of the paragraph before stating:"If Ichigo were ever to turn into a complete hollow, it would be the end of the world, according to the Shinigami." I think that would be enough to illustrate his power, and anyway, how would a mere adjuchas be the end of the world when even Rukia can kill one? Wouldnt that be a decrease in power, because Ichigo easily "kills" an adjuchas (it turns out the adjuchas is still alive later, but thats what you get for not releasing Bankai). If it says anything about a possible hollow class, I think it should say possibly Vasto Lorde.Crimmastermind 06:33, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking of the same thing

I'm not sure if the "end of the world" statement is even in the manga, but I won't touch it for now. However, I have removed claims of Hollow Ichigo being an adjuchas or vasto lorde. Technially, both classes are made up of multiple hollows, with one's willpower in control. While his strength is at least as strong as an adjuchas-class hollow, Hollow Ichigo is still technically a singular hollow, since he hasn't consumed other souls or hollows in all of Bleach canon. Arrancar109 21:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe he would be a vasto lorde singular hollow, but I would be asking only an theory or opinion. Maybe Hollow Ichigo could already be an inner self vasto lorde class, I don't think there could be a possiblity of it. A singular vasto lorde? IMPOSSIBLE, maybe possible. Maybe he never had a class to begin with, maybe not.Dekoshu 03:04, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Could it not be possible for him to be a vaste lord because he is Zangetsu and Zangetsu has killed a lot of hollows? R0H0 08:41 6 April 2009

I don't believe that anywhere in the summary it said that a hollow has to physically eat a hollow just the energy it has, and ichigo has killed plenty of espada's with the hollow mask that with out ethier of them knowing could have absorbed that power, in turn evolving his hollow beyound a normal espada. Also hollow ichigo is dormant in Ichigo all the time so we don't know if he is leaching off Ichigo power to make him stronger. I guess if hollow Ichigo would say if you can't kill the king the horse should steal to someday do it.

Like someone says lower its speculation at best, what proof is there that is how it works. Even the speculation of that is far fetched because its not based on any logical fact from the series just what someone wants to happen or be the case. Also by that very notion all shinigami are hollows. Zanpakuto do not kill hollows they purify them and return them to the cycle of reincarnation. Its also portrayed countless times they eat a piece in order to evolve no time has any one hollow been seen sucking energy from another. Also espada are arrancar who are outside of hollow evolution as when they remove their masks they stop the evolution at where ever level they were at. That idea would mean that all arrancar or espada would just leech off another to be more powerful which is not the case. Hollow Ichigo is a consciousness entity and it isnt leaching off anyone thats speculation besides the fact that he has been shown more powerful then ichigo and with greater skill in using power then ichigo, with ichigo fighting at the same power level and with the same skill as always. Salubri 15:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

His name is NOT Ogihci.
Look here. A mirror writing is different from a backward spelling. Now let's take a word like bid. What is the backward spelling of this word? dib. Now what is the mirror writing? Same, bid. The backward spelling of Ichigo's name and the mirror writing are different things altogether. And most importantly, the mirror writing was in Japanese. I forgot to mention this in the article, but a Japanese mirror writing will deviate from an English backward spelling even further. Therefore, the Hollow Ichigo's name is not Ogihci Ikasoruk, and as he claims, we can say that he actually has no name. :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 06:36, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Bankai

 * Advanced Growth Rate: Like Ichigo, Hollow Ichigo's most astounding ability is his growth rate: he grasps the basic control of advanced techniques in days where it would take even months or years for the most gifted Shinigami, even Learning things faster than Ichigo. One example is the Bankai of his Zanpakutō, which he learns in three days alongside Ichigo with the assistance of a special device invented by Urahara. So far, Hollow Ichigo is the only Hollow known to have a Bankai.

While he is the only Hollow proven to have one, by deductive logic, you can know there are others. In the Soul Society Arc, someone remarks that Kenpachi is the only captain in he history of Soul Society to not have mastered Bankai, or something to that effect. Then, there are captains in the vaizard, so one could assume they had Bankai, and through them, their hollow, when it was prevalent, also had Bankai. I say this because Hollow Ichigo says he got Bankai at the same time Ichigo did, signifying Ichigo's having it was the reason for him to have it.

Then again, Hollow Ichigo already existed when Ichigo obtained bankai, whereas the inner hollows of the Captain-level Vizard developed after said captains developed bankai.

Ichigo vs Ulquiorra
I think the section which say: ''While he is quite confident that he can defeat both Yammy and Ulquiorra together, Ichigo in his Vizard state could not inflict a scar on Ulquiorra. It is assumed that this is either because the Hollow's power is absolute but Ichigo is yet to learn how to use that power fully, or simply because the Hollow was underestimating Ulquiorra, and only recently gained the power to match him.'' is misleading, because it implies that Ichigo's attacks cannot damage Ulqiorra, much like his first attacks on Kenpachi. However, this is not true, since when Ichigo fired his Getsuga Tenshō at Ulquiorra, he said afterwards that it was too powerful for him to stop (though I admit that he managed to dodge it and was not really hurt as a result of the blast). Still, at least reword the paragraph (under trivia) so that it better reflects this fact.Crimmastermind 06:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I wrote the paragraph, so I guess I should be responsible for it. Okay, but until recently the fact that Ichigo's full power Getsuga couldn't even hurt Ulquiorra is true. So I think I'll just add that part (which states that even though he was unhurt Ulquiorra couldn't block it either) to the paragraph. What do you think? :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 21:30, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Getsuga doesn't work against Ulquiorra, even now. I think since the Grimmjow fight, Ichigo has gotten stronger, which means his hollow has gotten stronger.  That's why he was able to crack Ulquiorra's sword and force him into releasing.  Whether or not the hollow itself could beat Ulquiorra is immaterial, since Ichigo is (firmly?) in control.Big red01027 21:44, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

New Cero
This may be stupid but I think that since Ulquiorra's Cero is called Cero Oscuras meaning Dark or Black Cero, then Ichigo's Cero should be called Cero Blanco meaning White Cero (because of it white appearance). Hollow Ichigo is know for using white attacks so I'm pretty sure the color is white. The reason I say that is because most of the words that have anything to do with Hueco Mundo are Spanish words. Just a suggestion. --- Klross1.


 * There is no proof as of yet that Ichigo's cero is white. I mean yeah, it is possible that it will be, either stated by a character, or shown in the Anime (MUCH later, unfortunately), but do not forget that manga pages are naturally black and white. Just because Ichigo's new cero looks white in the manga doesn't confirm it until someone from the story (or Tite Kubo) states it. Don't forget, in the manga pages, just about every cero looks white, so it's too soon to assume that Ichigo's new cero is white. Arrancar109 19:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC)


 * We can't take the luxury of inventing the techniques name, just because it seems to fit. If it hasn't been given an official name, then, just like Ichigo's Hollow, we can presume it has no name, or at least that it doesn't have one yet.Lia Schiffer 01:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

If I would have known that the comment I made was going to create a problem I wouldn't have put it on here. I also know that it's quite hard for one to forget that manga pages are black & white when i read various manga everyday (as i'm sure others do as well). I was just saying.. like everybody else does. It's called voicing ones opinion. If need be this "New Cero" section can be taken down by anyone if it's going to cause anymore "speculation" or "inventing" problems. (thnx:) ---Klross1.

Scarmask
One thing I had to notice was that the illustration on chapter 289, titled the Scarmask, featured a (top right quarter of a) skull face very similar to Ichigo's new Hollow mask, though there are notable differences. Do you think Kubo drew this to foreshadow Ichigo's new transformation? Its different shape and coloring might be because the design was still being processed, like Di Roy who appeared as early as in the first arc. :(His Wrath falls from the Heavens. :Starshade) 12:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

The changes to the mask are very pronounced, the horns are now pointing upwards and much longer, also the mask does not have the face of a human school. the design on it is nothing like the current mask, etc. etc. I doubt it.Killa0norris 00:34, 21 March 2009(UTC)

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/289/02-03/ before

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/350/08/ after

Compare the two mask, the only resemblance is the horns.Killa0norris 00:36, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Speed
On Hollow Ichigo's page in the Evolved Full-Hollow Form section, shouldn't we put Sonido Master since he was obviously faster than Ulquiorra (and it was stated by Ulquiorra that the movements were that of Sonido and not Flash Steps). ---Klross1.

Mask
not sure if this is relevant but if you look at the new mask on this hollow form it has more black then his normal mask, it was original thought by many that this represented the control he had, what if this is actually the amount of the hollows powers he is accessing (similar to the tails in naruto) this would explain why when it first appeared in the series it only had 1-2 strips and increases with the strength of his opponents

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/351/02/

Fawcettp 00:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)