Talk:Lilynette Gingerbuck

It's Midna
She looks like Midna of Twilight princess fame


 * I don't know who left that^ message, but they're right. Midna even has markings on her body that resemble Lilinette's vest. Since the trivia section already says that she resembles Lord Ranewater, should we include this, too?

Why not, I can go ahead and do that--Vampier Master 21:05, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

No, references should not be made to things that are not from this Manga/Anime. This is a Wikia about Bleach, It should not incluce other things. Acacia Akiyama 21:04, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Appearance info
Would it not be a good idea to mention her arm-warmer like gloves and boots in this section? Acacia Akiyama 22:44, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Go for it. I think detail is a good thing. LapisScarab 03:11, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Would someone mind helping me on how to describe her arm-warmer things? i don't think arm warmer things is quiet a good way to put it ^^'Acacia Akiyama 23:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Taken care of. LapisScarab 01:03, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * THX Acacia Akiyama 17:03, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Lilinette calling Soifon out of her name
Why does a certain member keep undoing the quote where Lilinette calls soifon a bitch? It shouldn't matter if you like the character, its what Lilinette said. I have no problem undoing his revert.Thunderwitch 05:31, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Chapter 360
Anyone seen the... y'know, or are we jsut not allowed to mess with it yet. It refers to LilInette, of course. MementoMoriBlack 13:09, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Don't ya mean Lilynette or somethin'? I saw a Y there Kaihedgie 13:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

It definitely is a 'y' and I'm going to change everything. It's like the issue with Harribel. In fact Lilynette's name was the title page so it's definitely canon.--Agate genbu 14:11, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

only fraccion to assist an espada?
Under trivia it says that she is the only fraccion to assist an espada in battle. Didnt Tesla help out Nnoitra?


 * Kind of, but it wasn't exactly in the midst of battle. Could be a good point. Im not sure if we should include Tessy. Acacia Akiyama 19:27, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * You know technically Szayel's fraccion helped him out...by being eaten and healing him, yes but that would help turn the tide of battle...--Licourtrix 03:06, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Numeros?
Is she really still considered a numeros? Since she is apparently a part of stark (or something similar) is she actually considered a numeros? (Sorry if I misspelled that XD)Acacia Akiyama 19:29, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * By definition yes. She is Starrk's Fraccion mostly because they are one but she still serves under him. All Fraccion are numeros, and even if she is part of Starrk she is still an Arrancar. WhiteStrike 19:35, 2 August 2009 (UTC)


 * In the recent chapter (373) on page 17, Starrk called both himself and her, the Primera Espada. Shouldn't that be in the page? Also that would debunk the claim that she is a Numerous. The quote I believe was, "We are the Primera Espada, Coyote Starrk and Lilynette Gingerback, and this is our power." I believe this means literally that. They are both the First Espada and that should be put in the article as well as it be listed in her occupation. Something like: Primera Espada (along with Starrk, her other half). Just my opinion though it is backed by facts. Thanks for listening and here is a link for those wanting proof of what I claim: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/373/17/

Ten Tailed Fox 13:12, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Fan-translations are not reliable sources.--Licourtrix 01:34, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

Do you have a scanlation, then, that says something different? Otherwise, I see no reason to completely dismiss it, especially since if Sleepy Fans' scanlations were wildly inaccurate on a regular basis, people wouldn't read them. Twocents 03:02, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

Either way, Lilynette is still named as a Numeros. She doesn't have an Espada tattoo, nor is she referred to as an Espada by others. Additionally, on her own, her strength level doesn't even come close to matching an Espada's, given how easily Ukitake kept the fight in his favor. Finally, even though Lilynette is merged with Starrk in his released form, it's still pretty clear that Starrk himself is the dominating mind. It's for these reasons that I think Lilynette should'nt be categorized as an Espada. That, and her consciousness is in one of Starrk's guns. Arrancar109 03:13, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

See, those I will accept as viable reasons for keeping her status listed as a Numeros. Thanks for not being dismissive, Arrancar109! Twocents 03:23, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

Haha so what if she doesn't have an Espada tattoo or isn't as strong as the other Espada. She was just confirmed as the Primera along with Starrk. She was never confirmed as a numeros. While you do have good points Arrancar109. Shes still an Espada whether you like it or not. And I don't think you should keep her as a numeros just because putting her as an espada doesn't fit your tasteThunderwitch 09:47, September 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * I've checked three different scans besides Sleepyfan, which read as following:

"We are the Primera Espada Coyote Stark and Lillinette Gingerback and this is our power" - HuecoMundo Scans

"The title of Primera Espada belongs to us...Coyote Starrk and Lilynette Gingerback for this very reason" - Binktopia

"That is the power that we, the Primera Espada...Coyote Starrk...and Lilynette Gingerback...posses." -Franky House

And the Japanese for the sentence is "Sore-wa ore-tachi purimera esupada..." "Ore-tachi" means "we" without any doubt.

I don't think there's any way Lilynette can be considered Starrk's fraccion, when we plainly says here that they are the Primera Espada. Since the Espada are ranked in terms of overall power, not just power prior to release, and since Starrk and Lilynette require each other to release, Lilynette can also be considered an Esapda. And furthermore, I don't think her apparent lack of a tattoo has anything to do with it. We never saw Szayel's or Zommari's tattoos, did we?

Daisekihan 20:31, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

I never said anything about translation issues, but I still think there's reason to doubt her as an Espada, as she become a part of Starrk after he releases, but she still retains sentience... just in a gun, not the main body. Also, in addition to my previously stated reasons, she's not present in any of the Espada meetings either. Arrancar109 20:43, September 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, maybe she's not an Esapda...but at the very least, I don't think she can be considered Starrk's fraccion. Daisekihan 20:50, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not saying Fan-translations are inaccurate, just not always reliable. The whole debate shouldn't be centered around it, most fan-translators have an incomplete education in Japanese that may allow subtle ways the words are written to get by them. I agree however that the arguement goes more towards Lilynette not being an espada. She simply isn't strong enough on her own to warrant being called one of the deadliest fighters among the hollows and without stark to merge with (wonder how that works anyway? if they were twins I could see it but...)she wouldn't be associated with the espada. If anything this might mean merging her article with Stark's.--Licourtrix 02:14, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

She and Starrk are the same PERSON! That alone means that she isn't a numerous or a faccione like other numerous or faccione. Let's not confuse the fact and as has been noted, ALL the translators say that Starrk said "we are the prima" espada. I say that we change the article to reflect her special status. Saying just what we do know, "Lilynette is not like other numerous or faccione as she is part of Starrk, making her exact classification somewhat ambiguous. Indeed, Starrk states that the prima espada titles belongs to them jointly." This does not declare her to be an espada, but it captures exactly what has been revealed. That's what I think. Tinni 02:25, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Inaccurate is a synonym for unreliable. And when all the scanlations say essentially the same thing (thanks for getting those, Daisekihan!), it's hard to say that we can't use the scanlations as a foundation for making a decision about this. Especially since if it wasn't for that statement in the scanlation, there'd be nothing to center the discussion around anyway.

That being said, I don't think their articles should be merged, or that they should be considered the exact same individual. This is for a couple reasons:
 * 1) Starrk's article would be horrendous to read if we added on the entire length of Lilynette's (which sounds silly, but what's the point to an article if it's so lengthy that no one wants to read it?)
 * 2) They each have unique names - not even the same first or last name - and Starrk uses the pronoun "we" not "I" when referring to them, demonstrating that he doesn't consider them to be the same individual. If he did, there'd be no reason to use a plural word to refer to himself, a singular entity. Unless, I suppose, you want to argue that he uses the Royal we. Twocents 02:38, September 13, 2009 (UTC)