Talk:Zangetsu (Zanpakutō spirit)

References for names
I'm curious, where do the terms "Hollow Ichigo" and "The Hollow within Ichigo's conscience" come from? My own assumption was that Hollow Ichigo was a fan term created to identify the character. White Ichigo I know is at least used in some games (and if it hasn't been before, Brave Souls uses it, so it has now appeared in some form of official media). But what about those two? If those names were created by fans, should they be included in the introductory paragraph, or in the trivia notes instead? And if they're from a canon source (databook, character profile, or otherwise), shouldn't there be a reference to show where it came from?—Mina Țepeș (talk) 07:45, January 22, 2016 (UTC)
 * This is still an issue.—Mina Țepeș (talk) 00:54, January 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * I think I remember seeing him called the "Hollow within Ichigo" or something close to that anyway in the publishers summary on one of the volumes, but nto sure which one. Probably No Shaking Throne. For the others, I guess databooks, video games or the trading cards. Someone would have to dig around to find out --SternRitterÄs (talk) 12:38, January 29, 2016 (UTC)
 * Then shouldn't someone begin digging? I would but I'm far from a frequent editor here and have like 11 BLEACH volumes, none of which feature Zangetsu at all. Probably best for one of you lot to do it.—Mina Țepeș (talk) 04:44, February 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * I checked the raw of the All-Stars for NO SHAKING THRONE, and it literally lists Zangetsu with Ichigo's name...but with the kanji flipped horizontally. So neither of these names came from there.--Xilinoc (talk) 05:11, February 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * Souls: Ichigo Kurosaki (Another Ichigo [mō hitori no Ichigo])
 * Masked: referred to as Ichigo's inner hollow [Ichigo no uchinaru horō]
 * Unmasked: White Ichigo [Shiro Ichigo] (and sometimes referred to as inner hollow)
 * That's all I found in the databooks. I could miss something though. 06:15, February 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * Then, and this could be just me, but those should be the names used in his introduction for what he has been "variously called", since they're from the databooks and can be accurately sourced. Like I said, I have 11 volumes, and none of them have Zangetsu, so I can't check the All-Stars sections for him. But since these come from the databook, and can be verifiably referenced in the references section, they should be used, aye?—Mina Țepeș (talk) 07:35, February 2, 2016 (UTC)
 * How to refer to him has always been a problem. I agree that the names used should be referenced to distinguish them from the unofficial fan names and we should list all the official names for him. However, the intro is quite cluttered as it is with his various names plus the kanji and romaji for them all. I wonder would it be better to move the full detail to the trivia section and keep the intro as just Zangetsu, and maybe just the English of the other names (or most prominent/informative such as Ichigo's inner hollow) rather than the whole thing in kanji/romaji because its quite a lot of fluff for the intro. That's my two cents on it 12:09, February 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * Yea I would agree with Yyp here.--

Bump --SternRitterÄs (talk) 18:23, March 25, 2016 (UTC)

Conscience
Just to explain my edit, since phone browser didn't have an exit summary field: naimen simply means "interior" or "within". It could possibly be a reference to being in ichigo's soul or heart, but it's definitely not " conscience", IE being able to tell right from wrong, which is ryoushin. Maybe the person who provided that translation confused conscience with "consciousness, but either way it's not an accurate translation. 20:06, March 21, 2016 (UTC)

Zanpakutō spirit?
Both Ichigo's Hollow and the manifestation of his Quincy powers are two sides of the same entity—Ichigo's power—so why is only this one labelled as the "Zanpakutō spirit"? Aren't they both Zangetsu and both his Zanpakutō spirit, as shown through his two new Zangetsus (one representing each entity)? Ichigo had to materialize his Zanpakutō and then subdue it in order to achieve Bankai, and at the time, his Quincy powers were overwhelming his Shinigami/Hollow powers, so it took on the form of the manifestation—but that doesn't make it any less of a Zanpakutō spirit.

This entity was always referred to as the Hollow within Ichigo, including in Chapter 676. How about this page is renamed to something like Zangetsu (Inner Hollow) or (Shinigami/Hollow powers), and make a note that both Zangetsus are the same entity and are both Ichigo's Zanpakuto spirit.

Lightning Laxus (talk) 23:38, June 2, 2016 (UTC)


 * This was handled nearly three years ago around the time chapters 540 and 541 were released. The discussion spanned across at least three separate talk pages and lasted probably well over a month. The result was to move "Zangetsu (spirit)" to "Zangetsu (Quincy Powers)", "Hollow Ichigo" to "Zangetsu (Zanpakutō Spirit)", and all of the spirits from the Zanpakutō Rebellion from " (spirit)" to " (Zanpakutō Spirit)" for consistency. We're well aware of the history behind both spirits, but because of how complex it is, this is the best we can do. To argue it be changed, either further or back, this much later, unless you can actually provide a sound enough reason to undo all of that work we did in June and July of 2013, is insane, when we have all the necessary information in the articles anyway.


 * If you're willing, can you link those pages to me? Or can you summarize the reasoning for "(Zanpakutō Spirit)" and the arguments against something like "Zangetsu (Inner Hollow)" or "Zangetsu (Shinigami/Hollow Powers)." Thanks. Lightning Laxus (talk) 03:15, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Still Existing
So why does this article document Zangetsu's spirit as still existing (it speaks of him as if he still exists) while Ichigo's Hollow powers — of which Zangetsu also constitutes — are listed as former powers and abilities? If Yhwach took those powers, Zangetsu would have gone right along with 'em.—Mina Țepeș talk 10:02, August 22, 2016 (UTC)

Eye Color
It's been brought up in Discord that the eye colour is in dispute and can't see the references for the dispute but opening the discussion here rather than edit warring.
 * I'm not aware of there being any real dispute here. What did happen was that someone made an edit to Zangetsu's page changing his eye color from manga-white to anime-yellow, regardless of the fact that the page clearly states "NOTE TO EDITORS: Do NOT change Zangetsu's iris color to yellow, they are white in the Manga". So all I did was revert that edit and explain why. Looks like said editor may be making a mountain out of an anthill. Timjer (talk) 15:12, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It doesn't help that the image used is from the anime, where his eyes are yellow. Perhaps we should consider changing it to one from the manga or noting in the appearance section that the anime adaptation changes his appearance slightly, since it's not just his irises that are different? Ascha&#39;Vovina (talk) 15:23, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The Trivia section alread states the fact that the anime changed Zangetsu's eye color. And we prefer to keep "appearance", "personality", "history", and other such sections exclusively in an "in-universe" style. Regardless, maybe we should put up a manga profile pic instead, I'll bring it up for discussion. Timjer (talk) 15:27, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Some wikis are set up so that different versions of the character are shown in the display box -- for example the pre- and post- timeskip and epilogue versions of the Naruto characters on that wiki. Could something similar be done to here showcase both the anime and manga versions of White Zangetsu? Ascha&#39;Vovina (talk) 03:32, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thing is, we already have such a setup, with character infoboxes having multiple images showing their differing apparances throughout the story. Look at Mayuri Kurotsuchi's page for a more extreme example of that. Regardless, I don't see how adding anime and manga versions on top of that is going to add extra value to the articles. Not only would it be a lot of extra work, but I doubt most visitors would even care enough about that. As I said, for most of these the differences between adaptations are already written in the "trivia" sections. Timjer (talk) 08:10, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It's ok, someone brought it up on the Discord and I am taking the opportunity to show how it can be discussed on the Wiki too because the question was "Should I re-edit it" which is not productive if there is a disagreement, right or wrong so opened somewhere it can be transparently discussed in a spot. I'm not sure what their evidence was so linekd them here and asked to be presented. With new content likely on horizon best to get practices in order too. They never replied so i did it for them.
 * Well, thanks for explaining that, Sun. Though now I'm wondering why said person never came to me, here on the wiki, instead. Afaik I wasn't rude or anything... Timjer (talk) 15:38, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Some people seem more comfortable asking on Discord first but since Discord isn't your jam I thought I would do two birds one stone, make sure the discussion takes place where you can see it, thus ensuring people know you are on the team and what to do, for any newbies, when edits are undone and where it can be politely disputed. Don't worry I don't think anyone was accusing, just more seemed certain their change was correct. Hope I haven't alermed anyone.
 * First time I'm ever using a talk page. Hopefully I'm doing this correctly since I'm used to communicating on discord. Anyhow apologies Timjer, I reached out to the mods on discord regarding the Zangetsu edit, but the eye editing back and forth wasn't done by me. All I did was edit the tongue, which is still intact. This is what happens when you react while being half asleep at work lol. But funny business aside, I do wish you and everyone else the best of luck that the eye situation is resolved. And yes Timjer, on a unrelated note, love your novel edits. Keep it up and if anyone needs me, hit me up! Xeno Gotenks