Forum:Official Muramasa Discussions

Here you can discuss anything about Muramasa, the main bad guy from the current Zanpakuto Unknown Tales filler arc. Existing topics are listed below, but feel free to add new ones if what you want to discuss is not covered here already. Do not add create new forums about Muramasa, as they will be deleted and their content moved to here. --Yyp 15:13, November 2, 2009 (UTC)


 * You can discus the Zanpakuto Filler arc's story here.
 * You can discuss the Zanpakuto Filler arc in general here.

Muramasa's control over Zanpakuto
Ok, when Muramasa seperates a shinigamis zanpakutou, why does it suddenly attack its owner? is Muramasa using some kind of Mind control on them? I mean, if the zanpakuto spirt of someone who is capable of bankai, therefore has the highest level relationship with their spirit, is separated from them then it should be helping them, right? What the hell is this? Just makes no sense to me. If i dont know something, tell me. I havent seen the recent anime on this subject. Or are their spirits all just pissed off about something? --Ulquiorra Wannabe128 12:34, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately Uli, we know as much as you do. No-one's gone into the specifics, so stay tuned...TomServo101 13:40, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

It looks like Muramasa removes a Zanpakuto's self-restraint (ie "Follow their instincts"). They are weapons of war with no strong hand to guide them so they lash out at everything and anything. Though Muramasa seems able to rein them in a bit.

Otherwise this arc can kick it in the butt a little. They are starting to drag. Great Cthulhu 02:38, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

His control seems to hinge on something that the spirit dislikes about its master and going from there. Some kind of mind control works well there, but it looks like they can break out and need to be reminded physically. I want to say it's like taking something they dislike on their owner and amplifying it, or amplifying a fault or desire of the spirit itself. Probably why Ryūjin Jakka wouldn't rebel, Yamamoto is very old and has been fighting for a long time, any difference between him and his zanpakuto is either resolved or Ryūjin Jakka is loyal beyond all doubts.

Well either way as of ep234 his power to make zanpukto turn on their owner does not extend to hollows as it didn't work on Hollow Ichigo from the looks of it.Saimaroimaru 08:51, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Or say, Muramasa pointed the fact that he called the Zampakuto's instinct, then his power could be to amplify the doubts of the Zampakutos who feel that their wielders don't deserve their powers. A sort of Try to be in harmony with your instincts or they can kill you...Baronofash 03:59, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the reason it didn't have any effect on hollow ichigo is that he is pure instinct, there is no other inner instinct to listen to or to draw out.

While Muramasa has suggested (I believe) that he has some control over them, I think he's right to an extent; the shinigami often don't respect their weapons. I'm betting that rumor that Tosen isn't using his original zanpakuto is true, and that his original was Muramasa. (Would be funny if it were true, but probably not likely.) PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 00:49, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

As I remember (correct my if I'm wrong) it was meantioned that Tosen take his zanpakuto form grave of his friend. And like zaraki is example to don't know name of his sword Tousen is example that it's possibly to wield not you zanpakuto but it wasn't never mentioned what side-effect it causing to him (if it have any but using sword that wasn't create from your soul should have some drawnbacks).--Kazuki Senzo Miyakami 17:58, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Well it appears the Muramasa does use some form of mind control on the zanpakuto, freeing them of their restraint by getting to their instincts and warping them, but he has not actually taken them from the shinigami as has been shown they are only denying their shinigami the use of their power and when defeated the mind control is broken and they return back to normal. Also it is never stated that Tosen's zanpakuto ever belonged to anyone but himself, and the idea that it belonged to the woman before can't be proven, she is never even seen with it so its more of an assumption. If we have been watching the arc it states that a zanpakuto is born with its shinigami and dies with its shinigami.Salubri 17:22, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Muramasa's appearance
He's like a mixed Ulquiorra, Kusaka from DDR and Aizen (he resembles him in the way he treats his subordinates - he seems friendly to them). Tmasterson 12:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Kinda interesting idea... What if he`s a Resurrección Spirit? He kinda looks that way...--Sleuch Mizzur 12:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A lot of people are suggesting he may be Kenpachi's zanpakuto spirit. Evilgidgit 22:06, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * He does remind me of Ulquiorra. Muramasa's appearance also reminds me of Lelouch from Code Geass. Somehow I doubt Muramasa will be Kenpachi's Zanpakuto, considering he's a filler character, but Tite Kubo is overseeing this arc, so who knows? LapisScarab 06:09, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems extremely unlikely if not impossible that he is kenpachi's zanpakuto spirit seeing as he claimed that he killed his former master with his own hands bfeldz1023 00:44, 30 august 2009 (EST)

Theory behind Muramasa
Muramasa is a Rogue Zanpakuto, like he states but he doesn't really have the ability to set free the other Zanpakuto. Instead, he seals the Zanpakuto inside their Shinigami and masks them using his detaining power (as demonstrated when fighting Hichigo.) After that, he creates an avatar (clone) of that Zanpakuto to use against the Shinigami. When he attacks the Shinigami with their Humanoid Zanpakuto's, the Shinigami are weakened because their Zanpakuto's are sealed within them, unable to help and because they are scared of destroying their Zanpakuto when they kill their humanoid form.

Why?


 * In the first episode of the Filler Arc, the Zanpakuto Souls have been gathered by Muramasa in a cave, which cannot be done since Zanpakutos remain in their Shinigami Spirit Realm.
 * Renji could call upon Zabimaru, eventhough the Spirit of his Zanpakuto was right in front of him. This would be impossible because Zabimaru wasn't in Renji's soul at the time. This can be explained with the detaining ability of Masamune, which might have been broken because of Renji's desire to defeat Byakuya.

But, this is only a theory and will be confirmed or broken down as the Arc continues.

Kai Hirogame 14:46, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Tosen's wielding of a different zanpakuto is odd, yes. I think it's for one of two reasons: 1. the spirit died with its owner and when Tosen became a shinigami, his zanpakuto spirit opted to inhabit that form (This holds less water given the nature of its bankai execution, which involves the ring on the hilt). 2. He truly stands for what his friend stood for and is able to use it as a result, this shows his beliefs in a different light, and challenges his hypocrisy about his path of least bloodshed. Either way, I doubt Tosen was associated with Muramasa, who bears the symbol of the kido corps on him and his sword; while Tosen is skilled in kido, he was never in the corps.

Well the latest episode has confirmed that Muramasa is using mind control and theres something strange about him, his body was fading before he retreated then he said Ichigo might be the one and plus he seems to be interested in the bond between a soul reaper and a zanpukto spirit so this is what I think. Muramasa is endanger of fading away since his shinigami owner is dead so his source of existence is gone. I think he planed to either eventually absorb the zanpukto spirits to prolong his existence or pit them against their owners and see which shinigami have the strongest bond with their zanpukto.I think thats how he survived this long by absorbing other spirits but he now wants to find a permanent spirit to absorb as he probably tired of the need to keep feeding on other spirits. I think he identified that person as Ichigo. So I think he plans on absorbing Ichigo or Ichigo's power into himself to keep himself alive or maybe merge himself with Zangetsu.Saimaroimaru 06:21, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone think that Muramasa imprisons and enslaves the zanpakuto within his own body? In the first episode of the new arc, whenever he 'crys' out blood onto his nails, he flicks it and the zanpakuto spirits appears within the city. He does this again for all the zanpakuto to appear in front of the shinigami. Also in the latest episode when Zabimaru and Zangetsu were defeated, he was in great pain and clutched himself as if something disappeared within him (judging from his transparent appearance). --JezzaRules2 01:18, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

That's an interesting theory. It seems like the zanpakutou's loyalties are directly connected to him in a way that it would hurt him. But him being hurt could have been a coincidence. Maybe it takes a lot of energy for him to keep the spirits imprisoned like he does, and that's why he was fading. I don't know, but I'm really considering your theory. KnowledgeandImagination 01:48, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Muramasa's Sword
if he is a zampakuto, and they all seem to be able to summon their sword form. does anyone recognise the gaurd on the sword? this could tell us who it is Fawcettp 05:59, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Nice catch that is actually worth noting, but I just took a look at that and it was only shown on one side so it's the same thing everyone else saw, Katana or wakizashi, violet hilt and regular cross guard so it's not Kenpachi's he's either the zanpakuto of someone we've never heard of or most likely someone we do know but haven't heard of in a long time. (PS. Even though this discussion belongs on a forum, so should one of us continue it we'll move it ourselves.)--SalmanH 06:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

From the picture on the page and the most recent episode the design seems to have changed, the guard now looks like the Kidō Corps emblem. Ancient Chaos 02:59, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd say the guard looks like the symbol seen when he summoned it; a circle with a V covering one quarter. Maggosh 03:31, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The hand-guard is the same in both 230 & this episode. The symbol that appears when he summons it is the exact same as the tsuba's design. I took a screen-cap of the design from 230, which shows it best. It is clearly different to the Kidou emblem (though there is a similarity) --Yyp 14:13, 19 August 2009 (UTC)Muramasa_Zan_Tsuba.jpg

Ok - after watching the episode again, it is the same symbol seen when he summons it (which, without the circle is the same symbol on his legs.) Though, with it being solid, it appears more like the kidō corps symbol than the summoning one (at a glance at least). I still think it looks like a geass symbol to...(which ironically does somewhat relate to his powers) but that's better left to the forums...actually this whole conversation is...Ancient Chaos 17:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that, that possibility can be added in the Trivia. Just because he shows disliking to the Shinigamis, and Kenpachi hates his Zampakutoh. Then, when Kenpachi fought against Ichigo, there was shown two "spirits", and the Muramasa's reiatsu shows to be really high. Rambard 00:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The idea that Muramasa is Kenpachi's Zanpakuto spirit is speculation and sould not be placed in the article unless there is concrete evidence. LapisScarab 06:09, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Take a look at the forums.--SalmanH 06:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I know that, that's a speculation, that's why I say to put it in the TRIVIA n.n. Rambard 21:10, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

we can savely say that all is speculation since no one knows who muramasa belongs to and since he killed his former shinigami we might never know if you look at the legend of muramasa wich was a sword smith and compare it with the characters from bleach well see for yourself and write down your ideas then. Muramasa Sengo (千子 村正 Sengo Muramasa) was a famous swordsmith who founded the Muramasa school and lived during the Muromachi period (16th century) in Japan. Oscar Ratti and Adele Westbrook said that Muramasa "was a most skillful smith but a violent and ill-balanced mind verging on madness, that was supposed to have passed into his blades....They were popularly believed to hunger for blood and to impel their warrior to commit murder or suicide."[1]

Speculation is not allowed even in trivia - speculation belongs solely in the forums. Ancient Chaos 21:12, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I see, sorry for the bothering ^-^. Rambard 21:20, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Kenpachi Zaraki (更木 剣八, Zaraki Kenpachi) is the Captain of the 11th Division in the Gotei 13. Among the current captains in the Gotei 13, he's the only Captain to have obtained his position by defeating and killing the previous Captain of the division. He's also the only Captain who doesn't know the name of his Zanpakutō and can't perform its Bankai. He is well-known for his blood-lust and fanatical love for fighting.

Kenpachi wishes to learn more about his Zanpakutō because he wants to become stronger. He can also identify with the pain of not having a name to be called by, Zangetsu notes that Kenpachi's disharmony with his sword causes the two to damage each other's powers and that he cannot hear the cry of his sword because of that.

Not relavant as Muramasa has already explained that he killed his wielder and not to mention him and kenpachi have nothing in common personality or attitude wise. Nor does his powers fit with something that would sit well with zaraki.Salubri 02:32, September 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * ...kenpachi have nothing in common personality or attitude wise. Nor does his powers fit with something that would sit well with zaraki. Sounds like Hisagi Shuhei and Kazeshini, doesn't it?Baronofash 06:09, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Muramasa's age
My speculation: As Muramasa knows almost all and what's related to the zampakuto spirits how old could he/it be? If I reference to the Japanese concept of Sempai (senior)and Kohai (junior) then
 * As Muramasa has been able to talk par to par with Katenkyokotsu or Minazuki that might define him as old as them, but older than Senbonzakura because the latter protected him from Ikkaku, not because he sees him like a master but rather like an elder.
 * But he might be younger than Ryujin Jakka, because Ryujin didn't care about Muramasa's call.Baronofash 04:48, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

As these spirits are supposed to be part of their respective Shinigami's souls, it seems to me that he'd be as old as whatever Shinigami he belongs to. But, as we've seen with the others, the way he looks isn't necessarily indicative of how old his Shinigami is, or even the gender of his Shinigami.

And a point of correction - Hyōrinmaru defends Muramasa from Ikkaku, not Senbonzakura. Twocents 04:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)


 * My beg on this one, that was of course Hyorinmaru.
 * For the other question, maybe the aspect of the spirit may not show their age but rather their maturity or, in the other way, in which manner the shinigami feels his Zampakuto. To understand these kind of relationships, you need to see them from a Japanese view, not from a western view. The concept of seniority (Sempai and Kohai) is very important and used in Japan, especially in entreprise.Baronofash 05:58, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Muramasa's Previous Master
For starters the Zanpakuto spirit of a Captain's is most likely the leader right, and which Captain has had the least respect for his zanpakuto, Zaraki, this is just a thought but of all the zanpakutos we know of none of them really had a reason to rebel except for one not to mention that Kenpachi and Yachiru are away at this time even though I know that it may have nothing to with it but it seems to fit.--SalmanH 08:42, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I brought this possibility up on an earlier thread and I still think Kenpachi's Zanpakuto makes an excellent source for Muramasa. The only reason I would hesitate to declare this without reservation is that this is a filler arc and so far filler arcs don't change or reveal much of anything substantive. They don't want to deviate from the manga.Great Cthulhu 09:06, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Didn't Kubo himself say that he wants to go into Zaraki and his zanpakuto in more depth, and he is helping out in this arc so even though it's circumstantial evidence it makes sense.--SalmanH 09:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Some of us suspect the same, but it is yet speculation. If you watch that blue flames when Muramasa hit the ground with his sword (ep. 230) and compare with the scene presenting Zaraki in Bleach 3rd movie's ending, something presenting the same blue flames got out from Kempachi's Zampakuto, but it could nothing too..Baronofash 12:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC).

Then let go of the fact that this is speculation and just put some of your ideas in, and '''where exactly did you watch the third bleach movie I've been looking for it for months? Seriously anyone'''.--SalmanH 13:26, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Well...Kenpachi has demonstrated a desire to learn more about his Zanpakuto and is trying in his own clumsy way. I'm thinking that maybe Kenpachi succeeded in drawing his blade out of its sulk a little too well. Still feeling its resentment at the disdain Kenpachi held it in for so long it took off and decided to help others shake off their masters as well. Hell...Kenpachi might be off somewhere still trying to commune with his blade and totally unaware that its 'woken up' and running amuck through Soul Society!

Which leads to some interesting speculation about what Kenpachi's Zanpakuto's actual powers are. Muramasa has demonstrated an ability to free and control other Zanpakuto...that would be devastating if that was Kenpachi's actual Bankai. Great Cthulhu 01:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

He'd definitely hate it then, and he'll probably try to never use it to keep the fight going longer, but I doubt that should he ever achieve Bankai it would grant him the ability to control other peoples zanpakutos that would be ironic.--SalmanH 05:58, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe Muramasa is lonely zanpakutou spirit, without Shinigami. That would explain why he wants to set all zanpakutous free, he is so frustrated because he was the only one without host. Akeki 06:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Not likely since the zanpakuto is part of the shinigami's spirit they are completely tied together and i'm not sure if abandonment is entirely possible.

Yeah, I know that, but tbh releasing zanpakutou spirit (part of soul) from Shinigami doesn't make any more sense either. Or maybe Muramasa was somehow released from his Shinigami at some point in the past and the Shinigami died for some reason, leaving Muramasa alone. Because fillers won't usually develop characters or tell us anything new, I doubt that Muramasa belongs to anyone we allready know. And loneliness would explain his anxiety for Shinigamis. Akeki 06:57, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

To answer SalmanH, you could check by looking here. I talked about the ending, I haven't say I've seen the movie indeed.Baronofash 12:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Well that was something, how do you know thats the 3rd movie's ending.--SalmanH 12:28, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, who knows... The song is Houshi Boushi, but you could watch it in Youtube if you enter Bleach 3rd movie ending. Then, as there is only 2 movies showed before, this ending belongs certainly to another movie, more purposely to Fade to Black the movie...Baronofash 14:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey, wait! Am I getting this right? Third MOVIE ending? The ending for Fade to Black is called Koyoi Tsuki wa Miezumono, to begin with, and EVERYONE knows that Houkiboshi is the 3rd ending of the ANIME. Sheesh. Lia Schiffer 22:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Your surely right, nothing's sure, I'd rather say I do not myself which ending it is either. cheersBaronofash 03:26, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

so, just guessing, but i believe that muramasa's ability also relates to earth, since he stuck it into the ground and it raised up. other things could do that, but it's the most logical. also, there aren't many earth-based zanpakutou's so that would work nicely if it was zaraki's

I have reason to believe Muramasa isn't Kenpachi's zanapakuto,for starters, all Zanpakuto Spirits carry the weapon their master uses in shikai (Wabisuke has the bent sword, Zangetsu has the huge sword, SUzumebachi has the stinger.) Muramasa's blade doesn't resemble Kenpachi's, and Kempachi's sword isnt sealed, it's like Ichigo's (In constant Shikai.)

Shini Rebirth 22:01, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Seen in the last episode, Muramasa's power relies more in magic then say Kido power. Could be a zampakuto from the 4th, Kido corp or Onmitsukido's someone. As Muramasa's hand could extract Zangetsu's spirit from Ichigo's body, I thought it is quite chirurgical practice then thought about 4th squad medical surgery technique. And how Muramasa attacked Ichigo made me thought about a hypnotic technique then thought about Aizen's sword. Of course i don't think there's relation with Aizen in any ways.Baronofash 03:51, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

After seeing the last episode (237), the last scenes (the menos part) remind me of Ashido Kano [], the shinigami who's blocked in the Forest of Menos...Ace of Spade 12:29, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Not to pull hairs here, but Baronofash, I had thought kido = some kind of magic. --Ihaveaname 15:20, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Well I don't think it is Kenpachi's zanpakuto for several reasons. One all the zanpakuto shown thus far wield their shikai states. Muramasa and Kenpachi do not have the same swords and Kenpachi's is always released so thats point one. Point two is that Muramasa clearly states that his master is dead. You cannot kill off a canon character in a filler arc. It just doesn't happen. So I think it is safe to assume that Muramasa is not Kenpachi's. Ten Tailed Fox 15:09, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

i think his shinigami was Ashido why else would he go to the menos forestKensei24 02:47, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I could believe that. I mean it would be sad if Ashido died (I actually like him), but its a better point than him being Kenpachi's.Ten Tailed Fox 03:39, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I could see him being Ashido's. Especially since, in the anime, Rukia promises to come back for him, so some fans would want an explanation as to what ends up happening with that. Unless they wanted to make him a semi-recurring character, like they've done with Noba, Ririn, etc. Twocents 03:41, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Hi I'm just new here(I really don't know how to properly add my insights, please bare with me). Just a thought though, I think Zaraki could be the owner of Muramasa, although we already know that Muramasa's owner was killed by Muramasa himself. but if you would remember before Ichigo got the name of his Zanpakuto, his sword is different from the sword that he had when he got the name of Zangetsu. right? could it be that this has a similar case with Kenpachi? but then again, I remember, that Ichigo got a different sword the moment he got is own shinigami powers back with the help of Urahara...hehehe...now I'm again confused. Browzah 08:36, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Not quite. Zaraki never knew the name of his zanpakuto, so it couldn't be the same as Ichigo, and Ichigo's sword was, as far as I can understand, always zangetsu, it's just that once it was released, it never goes back to it's sealed form. Plus his original sword was half rukia's power anyway so that makes it a bit complicated. The most likely candidates I think are Ashido or some nobody who died ages ago. It isn't going to be a manga character. BollyW 12:41, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

My opinion on this is since we have never heard the name of Zaraki's Zanpakuto or much information released on it, the reason they made him absent in the anime is because they would have to make a spirit, have him fight with Zaraki, basically tame him again.. all with everyone going, wait... when the hell did he learn his Zanpakuto's name!? Its a filler Arc and T.K doesnt care to reveal much since it has nothing to do with the Manga. Also, Yachiru's absence is explained, well.. because Zaraki isnt there. Less spirits for them to draw I think.KamikazeNewf 20:27, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Well, first off, lemme start with this. You have all been thinking only about Muramasa's wielder, but have you once noticed that, first off, he cannot be any already-seen character's zanpakuto. For one, it CAN'T be Zaraki's, case closed. I shouldn't even have to explain, but most of you are slow so I'll do it anyways. Firstly, he's a canon character as Ten Tails said. It can't ben done to kill him off in Filler, it defies the laws of Manga and Anime, and is just spitting in Kubo's face. Secondly, he can't be Ashido's simply for the fact that even if Ashido died there, Muramasa stated himself that he killed his weilder. While there are plot holes in that, let's say for the sake of arguement, he was in fact Ashido's blade. Zanpakuto, even Shinigami, from what we've seen cannot use Garganta (Save for Tosen and Urahara, but both aren't Vizards). This means, that even if he was in fact Ashido's blade, he would not be able to travel back to Soul Society and Hueco Mundo. This is also interesting as to how he can go to the Forest of Menos and back, and could even mean that he either has a power to cross dimensions which disproves my claim, or there is an Arrancar, even a Hollow working under him to cross dimensions. Honestly, he can't be Zaraki's, nor Ashido's. Plus, since Zanpakuto can't be manipulated on their own, Muramasa would've had similar ideals to Ashido, and wouldn't call the Shinigami his enemy's. In fact, he would despise Hollows for forcing this hell of his life. Now then, my own theory as to why eh was in the Forest of Menos: "When Zanpakuto spirits seperate for good, they start losing their spiritual forms due to their shinigami (death) partners are gone from the cycle of Shinigami and Zanpakuto. Thus, to maintain themselves, they need to feed off on Menos to survive as sustinence." Anyways, whether you all agree or not, it is up to the Anime to prove or disprove. So, shut up and tune in.

--Seireitou-hanshi (瀞霊冬川平) 06:45, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Is it an illusion or Muramasa fought a Vasto Lorde-like Hollow in ep.239?Baronofash 01:10, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Muramasa i think was just fighting a Hollow that could do the cool glowing thing. after all thew were in the menos forest. we know that the really powerful hollows live above the forest. Muramasa did seem annoyed that his opponent was too week. Muramasa absorbing the hollow was kinda cool tho Darkgoku 06:14, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

First off Seireitou-hanshi, calling the people on this wiki slow was totally uncalled for and unnecessarily rude, it's a discussion not an argument, there's no need to take shots at people. Anyway, back to the topic, I think it's totally plausible for Muramasa to be Ashido's zanpakuto. I mean, just cuz he said that he killed his former master doesn't make it true. I mean, how often do villains lie. It was never shown and thus can't technically be proven to be either true or false. I'm very excited to find out who his master is/was and how he got to the menos forest. My theory is that he overtook his masters body and materialized himself as the dominant form, but to sustain that form he needs to absorb the energy of powerful hollow or something like that. bfeldz1023 3:19 am (EST)

I dont believe its Ashido's, there a bit different. Im sure the wielder is some no-name character who was just mentioned for the Arc. I dont really believe he holds any merit to the story other then he used to own Muramasa. Also, killing him makes Muramasa look tough :P KamikazeNewf 20:43, September 30, 2009 (UTC)



Like Browzah i'm kinda new here, but here's my opinion. I don't think Muramasa belongs to either Kenpachi or Ashido. Though it is possible he is Kenpachi's. When U think about it where is Kenpachi. Kenpachi is attracted to fights like a moth to fire & there has been nothing but non-stop action with the Zanpakuto's. Besides that, I think he went to Hueco Mundo to try & increase his strength. When he fought Ichigo he was intrigued by Ichigo's Inner Hollow. So I think he was trying to gain his own Hollow powers, but thats just my opinion. Minato88 01:15, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Actually, no, it's not possible that Muramasa is Kenpachi's. Muramasa said he killed his former master, and Kenpachi is not dead; we haven't seen him thus far in this arc, but you can't kill off canon characters in a filler arc. Twocents 01:40, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Comparing pictures of Ashido's sword doesn't rule him out as a possibility. All of the released swords use their Shikai, so we don't know what that would look like for Ashido. But to be honest i'm not totally sold on it being Ashido, but maybe with mumuariso in the Meno's Forest, Ashido will make an appearance and fight him. i doubt it but it would be a nice nod to fans

Well, in the case of Muramasa being Zaraki's sword, it is impossible.

1. Zaraki was not present when the zanpakuto's were released.

2. There are no unknown zanpakuto spirits.

3. In the credits where they show the zanpakuto, there is no sign of zaraki's.

I may or may not be wrong. Someone correct me if i am. Nick4444 04:04, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Muramasa & Baishin
Muramasa by saying that he killed his wielder, reminds me of Baishin (Sword of Frenzy) who merged with his zampakuto. Is there any possibilities that Muramasa was Baishin's zampakuto?Baronofash 12:45, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

i thought Ichigo killed BaishinStark Toshiro 00:10, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Baishin was not killed by Ichigo but freed by Ichigo. Baishin was already dead but his soul was swallowed and imbricated with his zanpakuto's spirit. But maybe (or surely) there is no connection at all.Baronofash 00:16, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

ok but i really doubt he is maramasa's shinigami just does not seem to fitStark Toshiro 19:56, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Muramasa & Kuchiki Household
Considering the recent developments in the filler arc, one possible theory as to the identity of Muramasa's former master is that he belonged to a member of the Kuchiki house.

This would explain why Byakuya is so determined to protect him (if he has no ulterior motive, which is also possible). It's unlikely that it belonged to his father, or his grandfather (former captain Ginrei Kuchiki) since the other captains would remember the name. Since the Kuchiki house are supposedly the historians of Soul Society, it's likely that Byakuya is familiar with the ancient history of his house.

The last time Byakuya said he was "protecting his pride" was when he stopped Zommari Leroux from killing Rukia. It could be surmised that his family is the symbol of his pride, and by that reasoning, he could view Muramasa as a family member if he indeed belonged to an ancestor.

Of course, Byakuya could be playing an angle (although an obscure one) and has no idea who Muramasa is. I just thought the theory warrants some consideration. -- Ginookami

Kenpachi being the Master of Muramasa
Im not too sure on it but i am just digging into me brain to think of why a random zanpakuto would cause all of this. The reasons i can think of are two things: 1. Captain Yamamoto could actually be testing the entire shinigami corps and seeing if they are truely capable of defeating their own powers. Hince why Yamamoto mysteriously disappeared in the beginning. 2. Muramasa is pissed that he is being ignored by his real owner Kenpachi and he is really trying to crush the Sereti because he wants to kill Kenpachi and show Kenpachi that the Swords are stronger and their power is too great to overcome. Even the power Muramasa has fits Kenpachi and that is bringing the instincts out of others. He doesnt control the other zanpakuto please everyone understand this. His power only appeals to a Zanpakuto's own instincts and that is what i think makes it fit Kenpachi because Ken is all about using his instincts. This could very well be a story about a child trying to get attention from his father but i figure most of you will think i am crazy