Forum:Vizard Battles

Ok so finally the Vizard get out there and do there thing. Im happy but disappointed. Its like you see more and then at the same time you don't see nothing. Oh well I guess we have to see. In any case so far we have seen them with their masks, enhanced strength and speed, Hachi has shown versatile use of barriers, Kensei has shown a faster blast version of his normal energy blast from his zanpakuto. Rose uses some form of hypnosis. The most interesting thing is that besides Kensei neither one has released their shikai, now maybe it has more to do with seeing ichigo in full bankai 24/7 that makes me think this is odd. But then i remember not only are they older then ichigo they are far more experienced then him, besides kensei who prefers to use his shikai (probably having to do more with the size difference when sealed and unsealed) not once has any one of them hinted at its use. I think the most interesting thing is how shinji goes to challenge aizen. Now there are a couple of issues i have with this situation. 1> he just has his mask on but no shikai release or nothing. 2> why i dont doubt his skill in any way, but i seriously doubt aizen would engage in one on one combat with anyone. 3> Im almost sure someone steps in. 4> Aizen will probably use his cheap overpowered shikai special ability. In either way 3 or 4 is so much the likely scenario here, I just dont think aizen will fight anyone, or they will pull some he wasnt there and thats an illusion thing. What i do know is this isn't the end, More then anything i just wanna see some releases.Salubri 16:44, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Round 2? Fight?
I like what you are saying about Aizen and him not fighting. While I do think he CAN fight one on one, I also doubt he will. My take is that this whole operation of Aizen's is to test to see where his is SO far in making hollows and how strong he can make them. We will not know for a while if he anticipated the Vizards intruding his little party but, never the less, it seems that the Vizard squad should be able to take the fight from here (I just see to many on the side of "good"/Ichigo for Aizen to accomplish what he "says" he is doing in the real world, right now). He will have to retreat once again, make a new batch of powerful baddies (Vasto Lordes would be the kind of baddies I expect next - Wonderweiss?) and give it another go.

unless u see the hypnosis ritual aizen's shikai is ineffective, so he wont be able to use it on any of the vizards. check out this video this dude posted on youtube 367 seems correct but 368 seems iffy u be the judge.Shinji hirako 17:33, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzHO2KdYDo4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fuser%2FPrimeraVizard&feature=player_profilepage

Thats got to be the most interesting thing ever but it would be cool if its totally confirmed to be true. I wonder if it is true, i would hope so but i find the last part the royal guard thing highly unlikely and doesn't make to much sense i question that one immensely. Also its a ritual only to con others into seeing it as they are all there. The ritual itself is simply having others around to see it when he releases it with the command 'shatter' as well its insinuated that it doesnt ware off so mind you everyone has been under this absolute hypnosis, whether its the Gotei 13 or the vizard from 100 years ago.Salubri 19:54, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

That would make everything I just said worth pretty much nothing. I almost pooped my pants on that youtube video but I don't think it is true! This way I can still be right! Let's wait and see. -VirtigoUF

Well, that sounds interesting. At least chapter 367. Of course, someone will get in Shinji's way and probably the other vizards will do some damage on the remaining arrancar, which will cause some surprised looks from Hisugaya and Soi Fon. But bringing the vasto lorde into play now.. hmm, it'd be too much to handle at the moment. Unless the Vizards are all as powerful as Aizen (I really, really wonder if Shinji or any of the Vizards are as powerful as Aizen...), it'd be THE END.. Sure, Aizen will get his way again.. otherwise Bleach will lose its main antagonist. Just like Inuyasha took what? 10 yrs to finally kill Naraku, Aizen won't die here and will get what he wants. I'm positive. He seems like the uber annoying villain, who's always one step ahead and always gets away with murder, literally.. Aizen will get a key, or even if he's got it already, he'll find his way into the Royal King place. Ok so far, but the rest, I have no idea.. just gotta wait and see, I guess.. Deimonos 17:15, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Actaully Aizeen has gotta be the worst concept of villain, he has no real flaws besides may overconfidence in his own abilities and knowledge. I see him getting beat which is gonna happen one way or the other. It wont matter if he is gone from the series as he is barely seem a majority of it as it is, it could just as easily be someone else really. He cant be a step ahead of everyone and he cant always get his way and on that note he really has yet to besides the initial soul society thing. But there is gonna be plenty of people more powerful then him and he will fall just like those arrogant like he is always fall. Also there is no question that the vizard are more powerful then him at least 4 were captains even before he got the position and they are vizard too, there is bound to be something serious happening but once again i question how valid the youtube thing is.Salubri 02:54, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

You need to remember that Aizen had over 100 years to think of plans. I think it's believable for him to be prepared for almost everything. So far there are 2 things that have messed up his plans (in unplannable way): Ichigo's crew and Vizards. And actually he could have had hunch about Vizards because they didn't get executed as planned 100 years ago. So all is left is Ichigo and friends, but they accidentally helped Aizen because of Inoue's abilities and fragility. That youtube-thing seems believable for me story-wise, but I doubt that that kind of info would leak out, so I don't believe it. Akeki

Salubri, good point but we don't know how its gonna play out yet. To you, Aizen is like Toguro from Yu Yu Hakusho, that powerful and arrogant bastard who got bashed by the main character in the mid of the season and afterwards nobody remembered him anymore when more powerful foes appeared. Anyways, my point is that Aizen has been depicted as the calm, yes arrogant but everything has been going according to his plan. He knew the Vizards would show up eventually and he was prepared for them. About being powerful enough. 100 yrs ago he blocked Tessai's 88 Bakudou with his own 81 one without encantation. Who said he wasn't captain level at that time? The power level thing isn't related much to age here. Otherwise, Ukitake, Kyoraku and Yamamoto would've killed everyone fast if they wanted. The power grid level on bleach wiki shows Aizen as strong as Yamamoto. I agree with you that any Vizard or the oldest captains would take out Gin and Tousen no problem but Aizen, he's gotta be on another level, otherwise there's no challenge. Deimonos 13:20, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

But see this is my point Aizen is being given alot of credit when logically we should know there are certain things that can't happen if the series is to continue. He can't destroy the town because much like soul society its a major location of the storyline and he can't actually win because that would end the series. Aizen is depicted being very formidable and a great planner, but it seems that we forget he can't know or plan for everything. He can only assume so far as stated before his plans have been interrupted bu ichigo and friends. personaly his effective planning is getting a little to far fetched to even be believable. It's unlikely that he would know urahara or anyone elses mind enough to determine the events in the soul society arc. It's even more unlikely that he knew the captains would come to hueco mundo or that soul society switch the town for a fake. It's like Ulquiorra all over again but on a bigger scale. They build him up and in the end he falls predictably. Who knows when but my point is there is no question of his skills. Does that mean he is actually so powerful no its doesn't as there are many times he could have fought and didn't he didn't seem to want to fight unohana or yamamoto or the rest of the Gotei 13 before he left so he can't really be as powerful as he is insinuated to be. Also your right there is no challenge but its not like Aizen is gonna be presented with one but the Vizard are on another level yes more poweful then Gin, Tosen and possibly Aizen, thats all that makes sense unless your idea is to kill the series, because otherwise Aizen is beatable and the most likely scenario is either a vizard or a royal guard does it. It just seems everyone likes to paint the storyline into a corner where Aizen wins because that makes sense to them, but how so, how does make sense to discount others who are powerful but not him.Salubri 14:02, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

No man, that's not what I meant. What I was trying to say is that Aizen was depicted as maybe as powerful as Yamamoto. That's why the careful bashing of everyone else and then waiting to get him later. If Yamamoto could take him easily as I believe he could do it to Gin and Tousen, the "good side" would win without breaking a sweat, you know? BAM, everyone's dead, let's go home. And yes, it's kinda annoying to see that he knew every single move SS would make, that seems a little out there. But if the series were to follow the typical anime thing, it'd be Ichigo bashing Aizen in an epic fight. With 2nd hollow transformation and a lot of destruction and damage. In my opinion, I don't think Aizen will fall here. Tite Kubo spent a lot of time and effort to make it this far. If he were to kill Aizen now, it'd take some time to get things back on track. Bleach doesn't seem like Yu Yu Hakusho, ok, the this guys dead, next episode: new big boss, new storyline, new place. It seems like Inuyasha in a way, the long run main boss, and a lot of "sidequests" on the way: SS to rescue Rukia, Hueco Mundo to save Inoue, Karakura Town to save human lives... and who knows, the xxxx (Royal King's dimension) could be next? Just my 2 cents. Deimonos 14:30, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

To paraphrase an old saying, 'Win the battle, lose the war'. If most manga/anime are anything to go by (ie hero vs seemingly unstoppable foe, hero wins anyway), Aizen will get what he wants (ie the throne, and the power), but still lose in the end.

Spoilers, to me, have had a habbit recently of being put in later issues, so maybe it's what's in store in 2-3 issues time. YT and our own spoiler page agrees what we suspected; Vizard vs Arrancar, though as to who fights who they don't agree.

As to whether Shinji is stronger than Aizen....Aizen himself states he can't get stronger without Hollow powers (does he have them? Dunno), Shinji has never stated the same, so he could have feasibly increased his Shinigami abilities in the meantime in addition to his Hollow ones. The same goes for the other Vizards.

Prediction time! I think Shuhei, Sajin and Kensei will triple team Kaname to begin with, with Kensei breaking off on his own (he'll want Tousen dead, Komamura and Hisagi I reckon'll want him alive), Lisa vs Starrk (for what he did to Kyoraku), with maybe Kyoraku joining in if he's up to it. And Shinji having a pop at Aizen, but no doubt failing. TomServo101 15:08, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually thats a misconception Aizen never says anytihng about getting hollow powers what he does is explain to ichigo why he went through the whole ordeal of trying to kill rukia and thus the whole hogyoku explanation. He never states anything about wanting or getting hollow powers remotely involving himself. Also i never stated that he would fall in fact i said i dont know when that will be but it will happen. Also that makes no sense he cant win period you have to know the dynamics of the series, its built entirely around soul society and the shinigami if they fall the world ceases to exist thus the reason shinigami wiped out the quincy cause they would disrupt the balance and cause just that to happen. It also more likely the spirit king has far more power and knowledge that aizen couldnt begin to comprehend. Even in Inuyasha naraku never made any large gains despite in power and even then the good guys would develop a counter.Salubri 15:32, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Quick question my fellow Bleach fans, can anyone remove something from a page if a sufficient reason is given?--Moe1216 16:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

LOL, calm down Salubri, everyone's got their opinions. Yours is just another one, it's not "this and that, period". If some of your post was meant for me, read it again, I said "I don't think he'll fall here", never said you'd stated he would. And another thing, you just stated the obvious once more. Of course, Soul Society will win in the end. In all animes, well, at least, every single one I have watched, the good guys always win in the end, one way or another (Yu Yu Hakusho, Inuyasha, Busou Renkin, Full Metal Alchemist, Samurai X, Devil May Cry, etc). There's no doubt about that. Some may die, others will get seriously hurt but the bad guys always fall. The question here is what's gonna happen right now that the vizards have appeared. All we are doing is especulate and the only thing we can say its 100% is that Shinji won't kill Aizen with his swing, that's the only thing I think everyone will have to agree with me. The rest we don't know. And I don't remember it very well, but I do remember Aizen saying that he had reached the limit of his powers and for him to get stronger he'd need hollow powers. But if he did or didn't get it, we don't know. Like someone's said, he knew what happened to Shinji and others but didn't stick around to see how Urahara dealt with the situation so we dunno if he'd take the risk to do the proccess on himself and/or Gin and Tousen.. Deimonos 17:02, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

That is wrong aizen never said that. Read the manga ch 175 page 9-12 or watch the anime when he was telling ichigo and rukia all about it he never said that, he didnt say anything about himself besides him creating incomplete arrancar.Salubri 17:59, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I stand corrected! I found a site where you can read the manga there, nice one btw.. anyways, Aizen was merely stating the fact and that he had created some hybrids in the past. Deimonos 18:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

have to be quick posting cause the editor doesnt allow you to post if someone else beats u to it. now what was i saying, bleach7 is a good place for reading manga they also allow for downloading of content. i believe its tite's inconsisentcy in the storyline that leaves this gap, aizen presents hiself as all powerful, the chart puts him on par with yamma, yet he avoids fighting certain persons. it is said u need the reiatsu of 2 captains to use the hogukou, which incidentally urahara also did. he did no put unohana in her place when she confronted him instead just showing her his shikai. then using his reiatsu to bring the 6th espada to his knees lil far fetched if u ask me cause those espada are very powerful and grimmjow seemingly fights on par powerwise of the level 3 espada just he doesnt have the smarts. he is then silly trapped in yammas shikai leaving his underlings to do the fighting yet his spirit pressure cant even help him to escape it. if the argument is he is waiting til all his enemies are in one place to birng out more vastro lorde and mkae the kings key fair enough,but his group is outnumbered and out matched if yamma attacks now barrigan is a goner, leaving stark and harribel outnumbered. tousen is walking points and gin isnt convinced his side is winning so he may split. i dont kensei will allow anyone to fight tousen so if sajin goes there he's my boy but i'd feel sorry for him kensei will wipe the floor with him, he should be using his bankai to take care of wonderweiss and that ugly creatue(superchunky). the thing i dont like about 367 spoiler is the 366 said a fatal blow so im thinking someone comes and takes the slash probably harribel or tousn the 2 most loyal to him the others follow out of gratitude not to sure about gin i peronally think he more evil than aizen just not as powerful and icigo is the star so he has to be in this action somewhere but he's a wuuss unless rukia or orihime in trouble. would like to see the fight move to hecuo mundo with more vastro lorde appearing, would really like this scenario to end so shinji and the vizards can take on gotei 13 then finally i can see unohanna in battle i wonder who side ichigo, youroichi and urahara would be on lol.Shinji hirako 20:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

lol dude.. anyways, I can't wait for the next chapter. And all the other ones.. one thing's crossed my mind tho. Where the hell is Ikkaku? He made out ok, Iba took a cero point blank and is alongside Hinamori and Matsumoto getting medical care from Kira, I think. The bald dude took a nice beating from the tall guy but after the bash, he seemed in good shape. Everyone's fighting, getting hurt and where's he at??? Bathroom break? Deimonos 21:04, 21 July 2009 (UTC)