Forum:Timeline Oddities

This thread is for discussing any questions you may have about the timeline of the story as a whole, or specific parts of it.

Time-line Oddities
Please bear with me while I try to explain this. I checked elsewhere on the forum for a thread of this nature and only came up with one about Ichimaru Gin and Kuchiki Byakuya being young for Shinigami-in-training during the 101 Years Ago arc. I'll try to make this as clear and succinct as possible. I'll preface this with the fact that I only have the anime as a source for this.

101 years ago, Byakuya was a young boy training to become a Shinigami as seen by his short appearance during the 101 Years Ago arc. Considering that Ichigo is fifteen or sixteen right now, that would place Byakuya's appearance around 10 to 12.

Approximately forty years ago, Rukia and Abarai Renji were accepted into Shinigami and Kidō training. This date comes from a comment from Renji about it being 40 years since Rukia and he had truly been close like the friends they used to be, and that comment came the day that Rukia left Seiretei and met Ichigo for the first time.

Shortly after entering into training, Rukia is adopted into the Kuchiki family by Byakuya. By this time, Byakuya is not only a Captain, but a well-known and highly-respected Captain.

So, what does this mean?

It means that in approximately 61 years, Byakuya grew up, passed his Shinigami and Kidō training, learned and mastered his Shikai, learned and mastered his Bankai, ascended to the position of Captain, and has been a Captain long enough to have earned the respect and praise of those around him. In 61 years.

But it gets even more odd.

Renji, who entered into training only 40 years ago, is very close to that same position as well. He has completed his training, learned and mastered his Shikai, learned his Bankai and is slowly working on mastering it, has been a Lieutenant for a short while, and could possibly take the Captain's Exam if he really wanted.

So, what I'm getting at is that... is this normal for a Captain? I thought Byakuya preached that most people take 100 years to learn their Bankai and another 100 to master it. But that's not the case with Lieutenant or himself. Hope that made sense. Yukikosakura 06:59, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

We don't know the extent of Byakuya's capabilities while he was a boy; if Hitsugaya and maybe Ichimaru are anything to go by, he may have already known his shikai back then. In addition, the fact that he displayed that new version of his Bankai (Gokei) during the fight with Zommari leads me to believe he hasn't completely mastered it yet, and may bring in more new forms in the future. As regards to Renji, we don't know how much of a mastery he possesses of Hihio Zabimaru. He could very well be using it at a very basic level; to me he misses completely far to often, so e still ahs a long way to go. TomServo101 08:54, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Just to clear up a minor detail (though I think it may be a big help to your question Yukikosakura) - Byakuya (& possibly Yourichi too) says it takes at least 10 years of dedicated training to achieve, and at least a further 10 years to master it, not 100 years. Also, Vizard history was in two parts (110yrs ago & 101yrs ago) - we only saw Byakuya 110 years ago, so that's another 9 years he had to develop. Saying that though makes Renji's growth rate look really impressive compared to Byakuya. --Yyp 09:56, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Yyp is right 110 years ago Byakuya was seen training and he arguably equivalent to a shinigami teenager about that time. 55 years ago he married Hisana, 5 years later she got sick and died. 1 year later after he found Rukia. less then 49 years ago he became a captain alongside gin. So you have to take into account Byakuya is older then Renji and far older then Ichigo who is young compared to everyone in soul society. Also Byakuya was commenting on the capability to use bankai in the noble families stating it take 100 generations to produce someone with the capability to use bankai. Renji while impressive cause he learned bankai, but it is nowhere near mastered yet. He barely is good at Kido and thats being nice. He has only been a lieutenant for some months or a year it takes far more then knowing bankai to be a captain. Rukia herself is almost or so about 150 years old, Renji is a year or two older then her if not the same age. Seeing as Byakuya is older then her it has been some time for his capabilities to mature, while Renji has been striving to be more powerful, Byakuya obviously doesn't have that issue any longer.Salubri 12:19, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Time line of the Shinigami
Ok after looking at I think I can break down how everyone's connected through time.


 * 1> General Yamamoto is the oldest Shinigami/Soul in all of Soul Society easily surpassing 2,000 which is how long ago he created the shinigami academy.


 * 2>Ukitake and Shunsui were the first from the academy the general founded to become captains.


 * 3>Yamamoto along with Unohana, who is older then Ukitake and Shunsui are the last of the 1st generation of captains of the gotei 13.


 * 4>Urahara, Tessai and Yoruichi grew up together at her mansion so they are most likely the same age. With Shinji, Love, and Rose and Hachi most likely around the same age as them.


 * 5>Can't be sure but Soifon and Mayuri maybe the same age along with Hiyori, Lisa, Mashiro, and Kaien.


 * 6>It is basically insinuated that Zaraki was captain of the 11th division around 110 years ago before Urahara was made captain. If this is true then Yachiru was a really young child in comparison to all others shown and therefore she maybe in fact younger then hisagi and Nanao but older then Rukia and those in her age group.


 * 7>Komamura and Tosen are about the same age. Considering that Tosen met Komamura before joining the Gotei 13 and was apparently a member of the 5th division under aizen as a lt. and later was 6th seat of the 9th division 100 years ago. It shows that Komamura was a member of the Gotei 13 around 100 years ago as well.


 * 8>Byakuya is a teenager about 110 years ago. Roughly around 70 years pass before he becomes a captain and thats roughly around 40 years before the current time.


 * 9>Rangiku and Gin are about the same age around 100 years. Ikkaku and Yumichika are also likely the same age.


 * 10>Gin is younger then Byakuya 110 years ago. Roughly around 70 years pass before he becomes a captain and thats roughly around 40 years before the current time.


 * 11>Hisagi and Nanao are the youngest shown 100 years ago.


 * 12>Izuru, Momo, Renji, and Rukia are about the same age. Assuming Momo is the youngest Toshiro is a little younger then her.

I dont know but those are the general outlooks that I have pieced together.Salubri 05:37, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Ikkaku and Yumichika's ages should also be noted with Zaraki's. The TBtP Vice-captains are at least slightly older than soifon and kurotsuchi, since they're younger than byakuya, though Kaien, being a prodigy should probably be with byakuya. So, here's how I see it in age descending order.


 * Yamamoto
 * Unohana
 * Ukitake/Kyoraku
 * Kaien
 * TBtP Captains
 * Ikkaku & Yumichika (+/-)
 * TBtP Vice-Captains
 * Komamura/Tosen (maybe older)
 * Soifon/Kurotsuchi
 * Byakuya
 * Ichimaru/Matsumoto(+/-)
 * Hisagi/Nanao/Yachiru(remember, zaraki met her before becoming a captain)?
 * Kira, Momo, Renji, Rukia
 * Toshiro

There's my general view of itAncient Chaos 06:10, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually Ikkaku and Yumichika are probably a couple years younger then zaraki even if they are from the same time they are mostly as old as the vice captions 100 years ago. Also Mashiro, Hiyori and Lisa aren't shown as much older then Soifon or Mayuri back then and as for Kaien he in fact is far older then Byakuya as he was shown as just a young teenager then. In his conversation with Ukitake thats evident as Gin being younger then Byakuya is closer to his age. The fact that he is a prodigy has more to do with him then anyone else. As if you recall Urahara told ganju that he is about the same age as his sister who is younger then Kaien so now that i think of it Kaien is actually older then Urahara, making me wrong on the first part he is older then either Mayuri or Soifon. Also Rukia was in the academy at the same time as Kira, Momo and Renji and if toshiro is younger then momo that would make her the youngest of the 4 with Rukia probably a bit older then her. Soifon and Mayuri were both grown 110 years ago being portrayed older then byakuya but they definitely werent kids like gin or ragiku.Salubri 06:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Heh, I completely forgot about Kaien in TBtP, I haven't really looked over that section thoroughly lately, so my memory of it isn't as clear as it should be (rereading now) When trying to think about their ages I usually think of -106's title page(s), which doesn't really give a good representation of their ages rather than being much younger than they currently are, though they seem to be just around the age of graduating from the academy. I put Rukia as being younger than the other three from her appearance in flashbacks to her and renji's childhood in which she looks slightly younger than him, though we have no direct comparison between her and momo (that I know of) other than the academy pictures on their pages (which, ironically both involve them having one eye closed). I'm not certain of matsumoto's age, but she appears (to me) slightly older than ichimaru in the flashback when they meet. I have modified my list above with these changes implemented (I honestly know no better way to phrase that at the moment...) Ancient Chaos 07:27, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * "3>Yamamoto along with Unohana, who is older then Ukitake and Shunsui are the last of the 1st generation of captains of the gotei 13."

This bit is wrong. Yamamoto was not the first captain-commander - see here:. The Gotei 13 is implied to have been in existence for far longer than those 4 have. They're just the only ones that were captains 100 years before TBTP. They all had predecessors. --Yyp 10:58, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I was gonna point out something but Salubri beat me to it. According to your timeline, Zaraki is the new Kenpachi 100+ years ago. But before he turned into a captain, he faced Ikkaku in battle, who was already a grown up, along with Yumichika. And we saw Gin back then, who was reaching his teens. So no way, Ikkaku and Yumichika are as old as Gin and Matsumoto. And about all the generations. It's funny when there's characters that are basically immortal. It creates some discrepancies and theorically some gaps in power. LOL, Shunsui, Kyoraku and Yamamoto with their 2k+ years of hardcore life in the battlefield should've been able to brutalize every single one of the Fraccion and former captains. I say only these ones because they seem to be relatively new in age or creation. Now Vasto Lordes, unknown to us so far, and the current Espadas, seem to be kicking for a while now. They weren't just "turned". They existed for an unknown amount of time. Aizen just gave them Shinigami powers but they were already powerful without it. Deimonos 12:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Another thing that came to me.. like Salubri said, Tessai, Urahara and Yoruichi are around the same age as Kuukaku Shiba. Kaien was older than them. In the flashback arc, Ukitake is trying to convince Kaien to be his lieutenant, which he takes it eventually but not before Urahara becomes the captain of the 12th division. Hell breaks lose and a bunch of captains are gone. Dunno how long, maybe 50+ years later, when Renji & buds are doing that failed trainning session with Hisagi, Captain Aizen and Lieutenant Ichimaru come to save the day. Few years later, Rukia already in the 13th division has to kill her mentor and friend, lieutenant Kaien Shiba. Ok, all these history session to make that Kaien was a genius and older than Urahara and even when there were a few captain slots available, he didn't rise, meaning he didn't achieve bankai (maybe he didn't want to get a promotion.. well, who knows). Sure, Aizen (probably) and Tousen already had bankai and took the captain spots in their own divisions, 5th and 9th respectively, but I doubt Soifon was mature and skilled enough to get it that soon and we dunno how long it took Komamura to get Love's spot in the 7th division. And we do know Gin was only Aizen's lieutenant in the 5th division many decades later, so 3th division had nobody as captain til Gin was promoted. So Urahara: Naruto's Lee "hardwork" genious and Kaien: lazy genious LOL? Deimonos 16:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I have a thing to add:

''It seems that Sojiro Sasakibe was already a member of the Gotei 13 during TBtP. He was the one who let the Vizard inside Fake Karakura Town, although he wasn't sure about it. Given the Fact that he was ordered to protect the barrier, he shouldn't let anyone inside that he didn't know. And of course he looks older than the other lieutenants. '' --Suzumushi 18:55, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

It would seem that the only members of the current Gotei 13 that wouldnt know the captains/lieutenants serving 100 years prior would most likely be,

>Chojiro (it becomes apparent from Shinji that he doesn't know the general's lt. nor vice versa yet neither thought the other an enemy) >Byakuya (he may not have personally known the Captains/Lieutenants as he was not yet a member of the Gotei 13, though he personally knew Yoruichi). >Toshiro (as they were all before his time, he has been put up to most likely be have that amount of time, around 50). >Omaeda (as he seems to have come into his position way after Soifon became captain). >Izura (they were before his time) >Isane (its shown that Unohana had another lieutenant before her at the time) >Momo (they were before her time) >Renji (they were before his time) >Iba (Seems old enough, but its unknown) >Rangiku (apparently before her time) >Nemu (she wasn't created until later) So the majority knew those in the positions from 100 years ago. Salubri 16:31, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Where does Aizen fit into the age scheme? We know he's an adult by TBtP, and he's probably younger than Shinji (the 'inside your mom' comment) so somewhere about the Ikkaku/Yumichika area (I'd say older than both) Does anyone agree? TomServo101 17:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

We can't be sure. Maybe he's as old as Urahara and Yoruichi but if nobody in the anime alludes to his age, we may never know. Deimonos 21:10, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Time passed in war
I have the worst problems with telling the amount of time that's passed, just because of the slow progression of the manga in general. So I thought I'd see what other people think. About how much time do you suppose has passed since the beginning of the war between Arrancar and Shinigami?

Specifically:
 * How long do you think Ichigo, Uryu, Chad, etc. have been in Hueco Mundo?
 * How long do you think the latecomers (Byakuya, Kenpachi, etc.) have been in Hueco Mundo?
 * How long do you think the battle in the human world has been going on for?

From the way they talk it doesn't seem like very long, but it certainly feels like a long time as a reader. What do you think? Twocents 15:12, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * To all three of those bullet points - less than a day, imho. The FKT battles have been going on for at most a couple of hours, but probably less. The FKT battles & Ulquiorra Vs Ichigo, Yammy Vs everyone else have been happening simultaneously. --Yyp 15:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to say several days minimum. Probably closer to a week or two for the length of the Arrancar war starting from the moment Ulqiuorra and Yammi first appeared in Karatura Town.

There was significant time of travel back and forth to Karatura Town by various groups of Arrancar, the various battles and recovery time for Ichigo and his friends, and the response from Soul Society in the form of Hitsugaya's team. Not to mention the various scenes dealing with school, training with the Vizards or Renji, or finding a place to stay.

After the Captain Ganeral denies Ichigo's request for aid is when things speed up a bit. But even here at least a day or two passes between Orihime's disapearance and the entry in Hueco Mundo. Once they pass through to HM Ichigo and his friends make a big deal out of travelling to Los Noches saying that no matter how long they travel it never seems to get closer. I assume a minimum of a day to reach Los Noches for this as well. This gives plenty of time for Rukia and Renji to go back to Soul Society and then make it back to the living world and THEN travel through HM to catch up with Ichigo.

Once Los Noches is reached is when the time frame narrows down to a few hours in scope as the varous battles occur throughout the building. Even then Aizen and his forces don't move on Karatura Town until later. So that implies the Battle for Karatura Town is short and brutal...perhaps a matter of less than an hour.

So yeah...figure a week or two for the whole story arc from the Arrancar's first appearance to Aizen's freeing himself from Yamamoto's Flaming Palace. Great Cthulhu 17:23, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I thought it was one month, seeing as the breakdown sphere needed a month to fully awaken. I say 1 month.Saimaroimaru 19:40, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Is Aizen basing his timetable on the awakening of the Breakdown Sphere? I thought it was just a ruse since he could force it awake prematurely to make Arrancars. Aizen wouldn't need to wait for the Sphere to fully awaken to enact his plans to forge a Royal Key. Great Cthulhu 20:02, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ukitake stated that it would take the Hōgyoku 4 months to fully awaken. Then Aizen says that it is about 50% awakened (right on schedule). So it is currently 2 months since Aizen rebelled. There was a confirmed 1 month gap between the 1st and 2nd Ichigo Vs Grimmjow skirmishes. Then a day or so between Inoue being confronted by Ulquiorra & Ichigo going to HM. On reflection, we don't know how long it took Ichigo & co to cross the desert to reach LN. But once they reached it, certainly less than a day has passed. The only time references we get after the start of the HM arc (iirc) are Ulquiorra being locked away in the negacion for 2 or 3 hours, and SAG mentioning that it has been less than 1hr since he released against Ishida/Renji. --Yyp 21:00, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that you just have to keep up. For example, when Ichigo was training with the Vizard, it seemed like he was gone only for a couple of days, but Yuzu and Karin state that he was gone for a couple of weeks!

"I think that you just have to keep up." -- Anonymous

Heh...easier said than done with 230 plus anime episodes, 3 movies, and hundreds of manga chapters. Not everyone has time to track every piece of obscure information! Great Cthulhu 05:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I do keep on top of all the episodes and chapters. But when events that take only minutes in the Bleach world take weeks and months to unfold throughout all the various episodes/chapters, it's easy to get confused.

I appreciate everyone else who took the time to actually say something helpful. It's really helped me get a better idea of precisely how the characters are viewing things! Thanks! Twocents 05:33, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I didn't make this and I do not vouch for it's accuracy. However, I think it's as good a timeline as any http://community.livejournal.com/soul_society/848698.html According to it, Ichigo arrives in Hueco Mundo on the 12th Oct. We know he leaves at night. When the captain's start fighting it's day time. My best guess is that Ichigo and co probably spent all 24 hours of the 12th in Hueco Mundo and it's daytime on the 13th Oct that Aizen leaves for Karakura and is met by the Gotei 13. Time is such a funny things. For us it feels like ages and ages. But from the perspective of the character, it hasn't been all that long. Tinni 13:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that guy surely took his time!! Very well done timeline there. Except for the Vizard training that somebody said there it took a couple of weeks and not a couple of days, everything else seemed to fit. Deimonos 14:18, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Im just throwing in my two cents, but remember when Nnoitra and Nel had their fight, they believed Nel had an advantage being #3 over #5. But Nnoitra commented on how many years its been since he kicked her out of Hueco Mundo. So its been a few years since Nel has been an Espada, and Nel was an Espada when Aizen was running Hueco Mundo telling them to search for Vasto Lorde. So wouldnt there be a time gap of a few years between Soul Society and Hueco Mundo? KamikazeNewf 03:30, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it was made clear in the manga, but in the anime, Ichigo states how long it's been between the 2 (I think he said 6 months). If we add that to what you say, it would mean that the Espada have been in Aizen's service longer than we thought (at least Nnoitra & Nel; not sure if any others from the current batch were around then). TomServo101 11:55, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

KamikazeNewf, Aizen was giving orders in Hueco Mundo before he revealed his betrayal to the Gotei 13. He is seen speaking with the pre-Espada Barragan in Las Noches before he changed his look, so he has been there before, and likely would have cemeted his plans before revealing himself to the Gotei 13.Spleencheese 09:40, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, your right, the Barragan scene threw a wrench into my two cents lol. KamikazeNewf 00:50, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

More Time line questions
What do you suppose is the time line? More specifically, how much time do you think has passed from when Aizen left Soul Society to the current events? I originally thought it might be around just a few months, but I recall Nnoitra saying it'd been years since Nel Tu had been essentially kicked out of Los Noches. (Ah, found the page: http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/292/07/) Thoughts? Twocents 21:56, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

You are right that it only has been months since Aizen left Soul Society. Also your right about what Nnorita said about Nel which basically infers that Aizen has secretly been going back and forth between the two dimensions for some unknown amount of years.Salubri 22:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

That makes sense. How many of the current Espada, then, do you figure were made with the Hōgyoku? Since if Nel and Nnoitra had been around for several years and he didn't have the Hōgyoku until just a few months ago, they likely were made via another method. Or at least, that's my pondering. ^^; Twocents 23:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It`s looks like the "newest(and more powerfull)" arrancars were made via hogyoku for example wonderwice.

maybe...all the espadas were "updated" when Aizen obtained the hogyoku.

Yea im not sure who came up with the idea Aizen made anything. It is stated multiple times that arrancar have existed in the past well before we knew about them outside of the organization aizen now controls. but at most they were not that powerful as they were incomplete. The use of Hogyoku allowed for their completion. Even wonderweiss had some form previous and its never really stated whether or not he had already be partially transformed or not.Salubri 01:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If he could use the Hogyoku to transform incomplete versions of arrancar into complete ones, then why do you suppose he didn't bother to do that with the Privaron Espada? (Since the page itself says, "As mentioned by Dordonii, these former "naturally created" Espada were rendered obsolete after Aizen began artificially creating Arrancar to meet his own standards.") Twocents 03:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Thats a good question my best answer would be if you noticed that its stated multiple times by some of the arrancar that Aizen gave certain abilities to the arrancar he commands now, these abilities make them unique. I would guess that he didn't use the privaron because as they are naturally occurring and complete naturally which doesn't seem common occurrence but very rare. Its most likely he couldn't manipulate their abilities for his particular standards. Prime example is wonderweiss who is made perfectly for what aizen intends as recently shown supposed "trump card".Salubri 04:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, so like those three completed too much for him to manipulate the outcomes, while others like Nel and Nnoitra weren't quite as completed, so he was able to adjust things a bit more to suit his standards. That makes sense. Thanks for speculating with me. ^_^ Twocents 04:38, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

My interpretation of things is that the Hogyoku has its limitations (recharge time, and maybe limited charge) Maybe he just doesn't want to waste precious power/time on something he has no real interest in coz, as is stated numerous times, they don't meet his standards. TomServo101 08:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

TBTP & Jazz
Ok They say the events in the pendulum series take place 100years before the main arc and that Jazz was around during the time. So is Bleach set in the future?

Its actually taking place 100 years as of Urahara becoming a Captain and 110 years with the 10 years being the amount of time that Urahara was a captain. So in reference to the current time it took place 110 yrs. Having said that yea the jazz question has been asked before and its a obvious misstep on the part of Kubo as jazz was created in the early 1900's and not becoming popular till around the 1910's but if you take into account the 10 years before the 100 yrs started it would have been the year 1899 when Shinji mentioned it, which is entirely off way before Jazz was created. I guess its best not to read to much into it but no bleach is not taking place in the future. Salubri 22:34, 24 April 2009 (UTC)