Forum:Old Improvement & Issues Topics

The following are old, long dead discussions on issues and improvements to the wiki from before there was a dedicated forum section for them. They have been merged here to keep them together and out of the watercooler. These issues have been resolved. Please note that in the case of disputed translations, we go with what is most accurate to what the author wrote. We now have a dedicated Translation Corner for such issues. -- Yyp (Talk) 21:43, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Spoilers
Well, this isn't the first time this has happened, but spoilers for the recent Bleach chapter has been released before the scans were translated into reading context for a majority of the readers. Like I said, this isn't the first time this has happened, so I want to talk about this with some of you. Do you guys think we should let spoiler summaries be put on before the chapter is even translated by those who translate and upload scans, or should we have a restriction on that? Arrancar109 02:49, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

In my personal opinion, I don't think we should, since a lot of people are spoiled on what's coming up on the manga before they even get to read it, and as a reader myself, I really hate it when that happens. Arrancar109 02:49, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I say we should do something to what we do on the One Piece Wikia: put a note when the spoilers come out stating that there are spoilers that should not be put on the Wikia until the chapter comes out. Then, once the chapter is officially out (I say in Japanese but if you want English we can do that), then we can add the information on the Wikia. Putting spoilers up, particularly if many of them are unconfirmed, is a no-no for those who want to read the chapter. -StrangerAtaru 18:03, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Incorrect spoilers are a ROYAL pain in the arse. Exdeath64 07:14, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, please do remember, that the original chapters in Japanese are released earlier. Japanese readers who are also fluent in English are also free to edit on this wiki, so it can actually happen that some info comes here earlier than when the translation is available for those who do not speak Japanese. Aside from this rare case, only confirmed info should be added, and it is strongly suggested to immediately reference it. Domlith 15:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, I just seriously lost the mood to read the upcoming chapter when it comes out, so I will say this: if you find spoiler summaries on the internet, PLEASE REMEMBER to use the spoiler template, so people can be warned beforehand. I started this forum so we can have something resolved. So far, I think this is the best solution we can come up with for now. If you are unable to understand how the Spoiler template works, go here: Template:Spoiler. Thank you. Arrancar109 19:12, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There is no need to add a spoiler mark this is a wiki that ocuses only on bleach so everything is a spoiler. While you and me may be caught up to the most resent chapter/episode some may have just begun reading/watching the series and what may not be a spoiler for you may be for them WhiteStrike 19:26, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually I meant this for manga chapters that haven't been released in English yet. Yes, you do bring up a good point. I do have friends who have just started reading and/or watching Bleach. But some people have posted information on manga chapters that haven't been translated in English in the past. I actually started this thread so we can get something resolved. I'm hoping the use of the Spoiler template at least works. I mean, we did have it, but I didn't know we did until today, since we almost never use it. Arrancar109 19:35, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Poll
'''ACTUAL RESULTS USED : Vote won by Spoiler page
 * 5 votes against
 * 8 votes "Both are good"
 * 40 votes for

??? That is stupid, it's non-encyclopedic ! No, useless, we don't need it. It won't change a lot for me It would be really useful, you rox ! It would avoid spoiler adding on normal pages, yeha, good idea.

Just a simple poll to know your opinion about pages beggining with Spoiler:Page. Well, I explain a little. I saw that there was "mini editing war" each time there is a new chapter released/soon released. So, to keep spoilers away untill the page is released, I suggest one or more "spoilers pages", with a tag "This is non encyclopedic, informations are spoil and unsure....", to let peoples add spoil, and see spoils on the wiki, without flooding normal pages with unreleased/unsure content..So, what's your opinion :x) ?

'''The result of the 09/02/2009 (GMT+1) will be considered as "results in use" and spoilers page will or won't be created this day, altough, this can still change considering the poll goes on

[1/2 = NO, 3= I don't care, 4/5 = yes]

Problems with the Espada/Captain Comparisons
There are several problems I see with them, here are the ones I see, feel free to fix them or explain why they are not if you want:


 * 1) Ulquiorra Cifer

Tōshirō Hitsugaya: Both are said to be cold to others, serious, and powerful (more so for Ulquiorra.) Unlike Tōshirō, Ulquiorra is indifferent, brooding and depressed. <---Why does this say 'Indifferent, brooding, and depressed'? Ulquiorra has never shown such personality. being indifferent is true, but he does not Brood and he isn't depressed. He is very relaxed, and doesn't really speak often or anything, but that isn't the same thing as being 'brooding and depressed'. These things, combined with his article, is making Ulquiorra into some type of Emo or Goth who sits around cutting himself, which he isn't.


 * 1) Nnoitra Jiruga - Kenpachi Zaraki: use brute force in combat, wear eye patches, and have an overly-violent lust for battle. However, unlike Kenpachi, Nnoitra is a sexist lecher and calls Orihime Inoue "pet-sama".   <--- A pair of notes here should be that Nnotira doesn't have the same amount of Battle-lust that Kenpachi has, he actually becomes scared of Kenpachi near the end of their fight when he realizes that, no matter how much he cuts him, Kenpachi keeps coming. The other thing should be mentioning the difference between their eye patches, Kenpachi's is a Power limiter, Nnotira's hides his Hollow hole. The World Platinum 03:45, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree that there are some mistakes or things out of place there. Particularly Avirama Redder -Izuru Kira? Please? Avirama sees battle as some sort of sport and gets some extent of amusement from it. Kira, on the other hand, relates battle with despair, and he thinks lowly of Avirama for taking war so lightly. Their battle styles are also very different, Avirama fighting from long distance, while Kira is a short-range fighter. Where Kira is calm and quiet, Avirama is loud and impatient. I see nothing in common between them. Just because they fought each other, doesn't mean they're counterparts.

Same for Findor Carias-Hisagi Shuhei. Again, they fought each other, but throughout the fight we saw nothing but their ideals, thoughts, personalities and fighting styles opposing each others'. Findor is arrogant and overconfident, and Hisagi is humble and composed. Hisagi and Findor have an important argument about "fearing one's sword", something else in which they disagree. I think we should consider keeping this Shinigami counterparts section, most of it makes little sense to me. The only ones that seem to match are Stark-Shunsui, Ulquiorra-Byakuya, Nnoitra-Kenpachi and Szayel-Mayuri.

And well, Unohana-Yammy? Again, Please? It's mere speculation. It hasn't been stated that Yammy is the strongest Espada, the implications of him being ranked 0 remain a mistery, and Unohana hasn't even lifted her zanpakuto in the whole series, all we know about her power is that she is second in overall abilities, below Aizen and Yamamoto, but the implications of those stats are relative, considering that Kenpachi ranked the lowest of all thirteen captains. Lia Schiffer 00:50, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, if fighting for sport is Avirama's forte, which I agree, it is, he should be compared to Ikkaku Madarame. I do recall Edorad saying that Ikkaku fought for sport. Both Avirama and Ikkaku do that, and they fight because they respect their leader (Kenpachi/Barragan). That is the connection I see with Avirama, not Izuru. - HuecoMuffin 21:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Borrowing from other wikis
Humans evolve by learning and copying behaviors and techniques from other sources. I have noticed that this Wiki, though informative, is pretty much just a bare bones site. Admittedly the forum is up and running, but we still pale in comparison to some of the larger wikis out there. For example- the final fantasy wiki (which i am on, under Exdeath64), has a multitude of extra projects, such as "fights" with characters (victors determined by user votes) and Userpages that are more interesting and interactive, mostly through the ability for users to customize it themselves. if we can make the wiki more interesting, more users will likely come, and it shall expand exponentially- Exdeath64 22:06, 30 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll agree that this Wiki could use some more extra projects and I like the final fantasy Wiki fights the put on (although that one may not work to well on this Wiki) if you have any good ideas please bring them up I am for expanding our Wiki so I'll help you if you come up with something cool that might bring in more users WhiteStrike 00:45, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, one of the easier things to do would probably be to do a weekly fight thing like the FF wiki does, it would be fairly simple, all you would need is a link to another page where the "combatants" are voted for by the users. Hell, i could whip it up in about 20 minutes (i run a site for a *insert prominent organization due to security issues*) so i know quite a lot about HTML, i would just need some guidance from the higher ups on what can and cannot be done with it. If you want me to do so, just send me a message on my userpage, since that is the only way this system allows me to know i have gotten a reply. Exdeath64 04:39, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Someone Got Carried Away
"Master Swordsmanship Specialist" Master is someone who knows all the techniques and can execute them without flaw. Specialist is some one who specialize, in this case, in swordsmanship and therefore is one of the best at it. Even if Ichigo fought (not trained) for 7 or 8 days with master swordsman Urahara I would still be far from calling him a master swordsman. While we'er at it, since when Zaraki is a master swordsman as well? He himslef admits he hates bushido and knows only one, the most basic, thing about it. Ichigo, just like Zaraki, is a brawler who defeates (we'll get to that "defeating") his opponents by overpowering them.

"Flash Steps Expert" Once again, an expert is someone who knows everything available to know about a subject in question, and in martial art, someone who can also execute techniques and strategies flawlessly. I know Byakuya said that Ichigo had mastered Shunpo, but I think that what he meant was, he learned to use it, nothing more. His speed which could even surpass Byakuya's was a result of his bankai ability - compressing reiatsu. I don't think that with his current knowledge he can keep up with Byakuya, Yoruichi or Soifon, not to mention real big guns of soul society. I would call him a little bit over average shunpo user.

"Expert Hand-to-Hand Combatant" Again, where does an expert comes from? Yes, he was trained by his father, if we can call it a training, but I really, reaaally doubt that he could stand a chance against real experts like Urahara or Yoruichi in a hand-to-hand combat fight. He was more or less equal to Kukkaku's brother, which all agree was not even close to expert. Now comes the best part...

"High-Level Intellect" I laughed so hard I couldn't breath. A man with high-level intellect is a scientis who understand Theory of Relativity. A man with high-level intellect is a man who is listed in 100 best chess players in the world list. A man with high-level intellect is a skilled doctor or an engineer. Urahara, Aizen, Shunsui, Uluqiorra, Stark had high-level intellect. Ichigo has shown himself to be analytical, perceptive, and deductive Everything he knows, he was told by someone (Ishida, Urahara, Yoruichi). He found his zanpaktou in a box because Ishida told him how to distinct shinigami's reiatsu from others. He learned shikai because Urahara forced him to (but he still didn't understand what it was or how to use it at will), and bankai because Yoruichi and extremely patient Zangetsu have helped him. He didn't even tried to learn anything by himslef. Every other shinigami has few techniques in various modes. He only has Getsuga Tenshou HA! he already knew getsuga tenshou but his 'high intellect' didn't help him to use it in bankai mode, but instead his 'high intellect' let him crush his bones by his own reiatsu. Yeah, a real moron... I mean genius. I'm not surprised that Ishida and his inner hollow call him that. He looked down at Zaraki for not wanting to know his zanpaktou name, but now all Ichigo does getting more power by hollowization.

analytical... even though Urahara told him to look for patterns in opponent's attacks, he still got nailed by Renji. The only way for him to understand attack patterns is by experiancing them, just like with Madarame or lately with Uluqiorra, like he says he gets used to them. But if you keep hitting a monkey with a stick, it will eventually dodge it and probably bash you in the head, don't you think?

Ichigo's grades are almost always near the top... he was in a top 20 if I recall correctly.. so here is one for ya.. why a boy with an average grades in an average high school has high intellect?

determine the pattern of his opponent's battle methods and correctly deduce a proper counter-strategy to defeat his opponents attacks.. a proper method of countering? Which methods... first fight with Renji - something helped him to overpower Renji just before he was killed (I bet it was his hollow). Madarame was overpowered, no fancy techniques or strategies. Second fight with Renji, he used getsuga tenshou (ofcourse afer being beaten almost to the death) unknowingly. Zaraki - overpowered, ofcourse after being almost killed by him. Byakuya - almost killed by Byakuya, ofcourse was saved by his hollow. Oh, and he had no idea why Senbonzakura's gotten faster after Byakuya started to use his hands - how perceptive of him :/ Aizen - well, no difference visible to the eye. Grimmjow - overpowerd. Uluqiorra killed him two times.

"Determination" Since when does a determination is a skill? And even if it was, it's just like Aizen said Your life force being much stronger than your skill is working against you.

Hmm.. if you think that Ichigo is a badass, gimmie a HELL YEAH! ....


 * HELL YEAH.


 * But on a different note I agree mostly. He is actually a pretty good swordsman, Yoruichi makes the comment, when he's training for bankai, that his technique was improving rapidly, he was no longer charging in and relying on Zangetsu's brute power. Sure he's no Ulquiorra or Kyoraku but he's better then most.


 * He is Captain class flash steps ability, but no more then that, he simply, as you said, possesses a bankai that greatly increases his speed.


 * Sure, not expert, but he's pretty good, He just doesn't seem to use it much at all. Sure Yoruichi would mop the floor with him but you know, that's Yoruichi.


 * Yeh, he is no genius.


 * Just about his first fight with Renji, he didn't possess an inner hollow at that time. He won because of his sheer power that he was forcing out.


 * So yeah, I pretty much agree. But he still beat Grimmjow, Zaraki, Renji and Dordonii in fair fights so he sure as hell ain't weak or pathetic. Just my op. --BollyW 13:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Poll or Written poll ?
Hello.. Well, I saw, with the "OscurO/rA" topic that "writed votes" fails(like 10 vote)  whereas automatized polls have over 60 votes. Then, I wondered, would an authomatized vote be better for featured articles ?
 * Well... I think the writed votes method is OK for the featured article. I don't know how it works but, maybe we need to consider the fact that is too easy to cheat the automatized poll, and for example; Vandals and no-wiki editors could post their votes and we'll never know about it, same for anonymous IP users. I think we need to authetificate the Cero Oscuro/As poll as well. Just my opinion. Maul day 20:36, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Technical problems?
Didn't know where else to stick this, so I decided to stick it here. Anyone else notice that some of the users' edits have a lot of & # 160; in them? I'm not sure what it is, but it's been happening rather frequently lately, and quite frankly, it is really, really annoying. Anyone have any guesses why this might be happening? Arrancar109 17:55, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Arbol, Arbola or Arbolar
Hi, I read manga scans off onemanga.com, it's really trust worthy and when I read the chapter where Rudobon released his zanpakuto, it said it was called Arbola, but whenever i put it as arbola, it is changed, can someone please tell me if its arbola or arbol?

that's a tough one. if it's arbola the japanese pronunciation would be arubora (i think). if it's arbol the i think it would be aruboru(i think). Kisukeiscool100396


 * Well the Zanpakutoh's name is supposed to be the Spanish for "tree" so it should be Arbol. But this is not the first time that we see wrong use of Spanish in the series (I'm looking at you Sado and Ulquiorra) I, personally would stick to Arbola, because that's how I read it in the manga.

(Poll)Arbol, Arbola or Arbolar
Arbol, Abolar or Arbola Arbola Arbolar Arbol

Arbola
i have to go with arbola because it's what the creator wrote--Kisukeiscool100396 02:21, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Result
Result was:
 * Arbola 54
 * Arbolar 3
 * Arbol 20

(Poll) Articles for techniques ?
87 vote for Yes(Only those where we got informations, but including those like gran ray cero.) |
 * Yes : That means, as soon as we got information about a technique, it deserves its own page, like gran ray, and stuff.(see Narutopedia)

That means, since May 1st, 2009, all the techniques we know a little about deserves their own article.

POLL IS CLOSED

Informations about answers :
 * Yes : That means, as soon as we got information about a technique, it deserves its own page, like gran ray, and stuff.(see Narutopedia)
 * No : That means that ALL techniques should be included into Character pages or General pages about techniques.
 * Only Signifiant : Means technique for which we got MUCH informations and probably used by many characters
 * Don't care : No need to explain

I think it's pretty clear, I let you vote :)

Some yes but not all
While some thecniques do deserve their own page (ex. Hierro, Bala, Hohō, Zanjutsu, Cero) not all of them do (ex Getsuga Tenshō, Cero Oscuras, Gran Rey Cero). This is because:
 * a)Not significant enough. If is a personal technique from a Character than no since it can easily you go into that characters page
 * b)Variation. The tecnique is nothing more than a variation of a technique that is already well expained in the parent article.
 * c)Info. litle to no info is know on it.
 * d)Multiple users. Techniques that can be used by most people of a race be it Shinigami, Hollow, Quincy and others deserve their own page.
 * e)To many to cover in the main article. Kidō techniques may get their own article if enough info is know on it simply because of the multiple spells that they are (it as been sugested that there is 90 Hado and 90 Bakudo along with others that dont fall in this realm.

This is my take on this matter please feel free to voice your opinions as well. WhiteStrike 09:50, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Im a bit confused by what the poll is asking to vote on. In any case Im in total agreement with Whitestrike, while Hierro, Bala, Cero, Hoho, Zanjutsu, Kido, Hakuda Deserve their own page as they always have. The side variations dont need their own space for all the aforementioned reasons. Salubri 12:39, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Revamped the answers.

Shinigami/shinigami/Soul Reaper?
Shinigami Vote: 6 (Win)

Soul Reaper: Vote: 2

Shinigami
I vote for Shinigami. Most of the wiki already uses this and the show has a theme of having diferrent languages beign use for certain things. we already keep most of the terms and so those the English anime with a couple of exceptions. Shinigami is the prefer term use by fans and since this wiki only focuses on Bleach there is no chance of the reader getting confused by names. WhiteStrike 20:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

This is purely the actual best way for me ^^. Shinigami is the real term, and, for those who will tell me that we don't use "Souru Society" for Soul Society, I'll simply answer than Soul Society stays the same in all language except Japanese/Asian languages and that nearly all subs/dubs uses it. Shinigami's also most used, because Soul Reaper is only english translation, I'm pretty sure than peoples that doesn't live in a country with English as native language but that speak English will directly look for Shinigami, not Soul Reaper(Well, it's what I did ^^)... To be more clear : There is many peoples non-English that speaks English, even if we're on an English wiki, we should consider that. Also, as I said, Shinigami is used in most of the languages. M i l i -Ci en  sys 00:47, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

There were 2 previous post here for Shinigami and can be seen in the page history[] this two were by Damith and LapisScarab. These were made back in July when this Forum was first made, please DO NOT delete other people posts WhiteStrike 01:36, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

I vote for Shinigami because mostly everyone uses that word instead of Soul Reaper.--Damith 05:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I prefer Shinigami over Soul Reaper because "Shinigami" is the original and fits better. As for the italics thing, Shinigami is a title, meaning italics is unnecesary. (Lapiscarab?)

I'll go with Shinigami. Boovoo 22:23, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Soul Reaper
I think there is a need for some consensus on this. Generally, it seems there are two ways of typing "shinigami" in the articles: shinigami in italics, or Shinigami with capital. And there is also the dubbed version, Soul Reaper. I think it is time to decide, which one do we use, and then adhere to it consequently. I am awaiting opinions, or more better, votes for either of the above-mentioned 3 versions. Personally I vote for "Soul Reaper", as this is an English wikia, we should write the English versions. I know, by know, tremendous amount of substitutions are needed, but still, it can be done in about a few days. Domlith 20:38, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I prefer "Soul Reaper" since this is, as you said, an English wiki and we should write the English versions. A lot of Bleach fans who have seen it in English first still call them Soul Reapers. A bunch of critics have no problem with it and continues to call them Soul Reapers. One even said that it suits them better, given their duties. (see below) Hell, even Wikipedia chose Soul Reaper. "Shinigami", I think, is better-suited for the ones in Death Note, since they really are "Gods of Death"; they kill people, including Death Note users (like Light), in order to sustain/expand their lifespan. Here, in Bleach, they guide souls to the Soul Society, like the Grim Reaper, fight other souls that refuse to "pass on" into said afterlife, and maintain order in their dimensional realm. More recently, however, they are fighting a long, destructive winter war against Hollow-Soul Reaper hybrids called "arrancar" and are more comparable to...the Jedi? So yeah, I going with "Soul Reaper". Who agrees? Zhaeron3.


 * Answer : So, the description matters "A LOT" more, so we ignore all people that are non-English-native, and we also Ignore Kubo because he Choosed Shinigami and not the Japanese for "grim reaper" ? Oh right, of course, Tite Kubo(+Almost all fansubers/dubbers except in some language) doesn't know anything about the Shinigami in Bleach, maybe....  M i l i -Ci en   sys (that don't make fake with multiple account to win a vote he's loosing, also, the only reason I didn't delete your original vote is because some peoples should think I abuse because I'm for "Shinigami", and that don't delete other peoples vote if they're against him.)

That's not what I meant. I mean the discription for the Bleach Shinigami/Soul Reapers themselves; their duties, their powers, their hierarchy, etc. Not the actual meaning of the word. I'm also new to this whole forums thing. Though, I'm fine with whatever the outcome is. I'm just more used to Soul Reaper.

I agree with Domlith and Zhaeron3. Zhaeron 4.

What he said. Zhaeron5.

Ditto. Zhaeron6.

Possible deleting of the original vote if it happens again.

I actually didn't think this would come back up. But I might as well as put in my input. I admit that I myself prefer "Soul Reaper"... BUT, I'm actually well aware that a majority of Bleach fans these days either watch the subs or read the manga, which "shinigami" is used, even through subs. So, despite my views, I actually vote on it remaining as "shinigami" rather than Soul Reapers, since more people are familiar with it and prefer it over Soul Reapers. Arrancar109 21:24, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

History and synopsis, or appearance and personality first?

 * Character Outline
 * Synopsis
 * History
 * Vote : 0


 * Character Outline
 * History
 * Synopsis
 * Vote : 5 (Win)

Another topic which recently came to the point that we need consensus in it. The question is simple: should the character's description precede the events which the character participated in or vice versa?

On Wookieepedia, Biography is first in the case of characters, then comes Personality and traits, Powers and abilities etc. I thought that we should follow this, but in more than one cases, my rearrangement was reverted, and it was also indicated in the edit summary that description should come first. Now I see that in the case of some characters, the order was reverted yet again (history first). I think we should vote about it. Like this:


 * history first
 * description first

I await votes and opinions. Domlith 15:51, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I have noticed that the History, Synopsis, and Personality sections of each article keeps getting changed around. Hmm...


 * Personality/Description
 * History
 * Synopsis

That's what I agree on. I'm good either way though, just as long as History is done before Synopsis. Arrancar109 15:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Character outline, History then Synopsis. CO acts as an introduction to the character and how they tick. Adding history first will leave a reader confused as to why a character takes a course of action when they don't know their personality, which could be described before hand on the page. CCSfanatic 22:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree to (I don't see any reason to put synopsis AFTER History...) Mili-Cien 22:15, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Character Outline
 * Synopsis
 * History

I believe it should go, Character Outline, Synopsis, History. At the moment I think the pages look like crap until they're reverted back to this order. When can we expect to see this happen since everyone's agreeing to this order. Boovoo 14:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've changed my mind. What I meant to say was: Character Outline, History then Synopsis Boovoo 23:32, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Given that I'm one of the persons that have done most of the reverts and since we are looking for a consensus I’ll go with whatever the majority decides. My vote is either Personality and Appearance (for characters whose articles have enough info for both of them) or Character Outline (for minor characters whose personality may not be fully explore) being first. Second I will go with History which covers events prior to the main story line, finally Synopsis which details what the character has gone through in the course of the series (this may be broken down by arcs depending on the amount of information). Powers and Abilities, trivia and other miscellaneous information should be at the bottom. Putting History before Synopsis keeps the article flowing in one direction as oppossed of going back and forth in the story.WhiteStrike 21:55, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Being that this is an issue of something i consider important this History, Synopsis, Appearance, Personality, powers and abilities and etc. In the case of those who sufficient information can be found. I will agree on Character Outline, History and then Synopsis on characters without sufficient information. History should be above appearance and personality. Take into account the people who may have seen a couple episodes of bleach and find out there's a wiki, they get here and want to learn more about their favorite character and see information about his appearance and personality first as if it matters compared to their history. On any profile for an actual person its history and current events before all the other stuff, like religion or specific views or whatever have you. Salubri 17:46, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

I change my vote too, I misunderstood synopsis/History, alright, noone voted for C/O Synopsis History, let's admit that it's going to be C/O History Synopsis from now ? Mili-Cien

I don't get that voting system at all at least 7 people submitted their thoughts and no conclusion was reached at all. Considering that no real consensus was taken i dont know about standing by a 4 votes equal to winning for the people who want it changed to character outline first. I Can't recall on any profile where someone's appearance and personality is important compared to their history. The third person on here states that if you put the history before the personality, then people wont understand why thy took that course of action. I don't agree at all in many profiles the appearance or personality aren't featured at all, im pretty sure everyone still understands the concept of history though. In the real world no one had to wonder what was the personality of a historical figure to know why he did something, actions spoke for themselves. But whatever my point being this issue isn't really done, i dont think anyone was taken it seriously cause most people where like whatever anyhow so most don't really care. Character outline for the minor character's fine, but i can see that ichigo has got orange hair and is brave and determined in the manga and anime without coming here to see his page and read about it first thing. Salubri 23:09 28 November 2008

Appearance and personality first, then History, synopsis, abilities, quotes, and trivia. Zhaeron3.

Techniques
In my optimistic opinion, ALL Bleach techniques should have their own articles just like Narutopedia. That way, it's fair and all techniques that exist in Bleach have respect, regardless of what other people say otherwise. Also, I am not in total agreement with the latter two above, and I don't want anyone to force anyone to change their opinion, even if it is entitled. Dekoshu talk contrib 16:50, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

This poll should be closed, since 4 days have passed. Dekoshu talk contrib 05:31, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Affiliation
Affiliation Vote: 4 (Win)

Previous Affiliation Vote: 1

Should a deceased characters current Affiliation at the time of their demise be changed to 'Previous affiliation'. Aizen's deflection is a totally diffenret matter seeing as he's still alive to continue on with the story in his new affiliation. CCSfanatic 23:05, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that a character's affiliation should remain the same at the moment of death. A number of reasons for this include:
 * Death doesn't really change affiliation, it's a charcter deflecting or leaving an orginisation that warrents previous afiliation.
 * If an arrnacar (thye're always dying) or an other character is killed that doesn't really warrent a change of afil, seeing as thye died associated with a group.
 * Other wiki's, such as the One Piece and Naruto wikis have this policy.
 * Prev Affil can be mis-leading.
 * Having affiliation left normal after a characters death stops arguments.
 * Noble Skuld the Legend Killer 19:48, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll have to disagree, if a character dies he will no longer be associated with that group, but i'll be willing to accepted that if is what we agree upon, however their occpuation and team should be change and if a charccter died before the series started then he should defenetly have it under previous affiliation (i.e Kaien Shiba and others like him). A Character continuing the story under a diferent group such as Aizen being a leader of ther Arrancar and Hirako being a Vizard or Yoruichi not having any former asssociation should be change with no argument WhiteStrike 23:31, 1 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with you WS on the bit about a character dying before the series like Kaien should be kept as prev and Aizen, Shinji and Yoruichi as well. I'm glad to hear you (might) agree with me that if a character like Abirama is killed they really don't need a change for afilliation.


 * I vote to keep the affil same after death only for characters like Abirama, for example. CCSfanatic 18:10, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with CCSfanatic and Noble Skuld the Legend Killer; leave it alone for those like Abirama. Zhaeron3

Kanji in bold
Recently, I noticed that at the names of the Zanpakuto, even the kanji are in bold, which are not meant to be bolded and look ugly that way. I think that only the name should be in bold, like in the case of the character's names. Maybe the translation can also be in bold, but please do not make the kanji bold. I reverted this in the case of several Shinigami, but they were put back. We can discuss here, what do we want to see, but personally, I vouch for kanji being left normal. Domlith 22:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree the only part that should in bold is the name of the Zanpakuto and by using the template the name in english will appear in italics which is enough to catch the eye. The name should be the only thing in bold and as Domlith said making everything on bold makes it look ugly WhiteStrike 23:49, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

The kanji is not so much my concern its the english translation. Besides that the name is being show cased in its entirety. thats the way i originally did it that way when i organized the entire set up. Salubri 23:59, 2 December 2008

Expanded relationships between characters
"I agree with this proposal under the condition that we make a Bleach fanon wiki in order to stop said fan-fication from occurring in this wiki." Vote: 4 (Win)

"I disagree with this proposal." Vote: 0

Should we expand the relationships between important characters like the Ryoka? And by "expand", I mean describe their relationships as vividly and intellectually as possible (WITHOUT biased information), like how they did it on the Avatar Wiki? Yes, it'll take sometime, but I think we can pull it off. Who agrees? Zhaeron6


 * I don't see a problem with it, as long as nobody tries to put fanfiction on it (ex: Soifon has a crush on Byakuya, Ichinose is dating Hinamori, etc). I mean, as long as we keep it to some level of maturity, it should be fine. However, if anyone states questionable info from an omake chapter or anime segment, they should be sure to source it, since some omake-related info has been questioned from time to time (I myself questioned Shuhei's fantasies of rescuing a grateful Rangiku until I saw the manga omake myself). Arrancar109 04:29, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Shuhei likes Rangiku...? I don't blame him, though. Back on-topic, we would have to make a separate page for the relationships, as well, like how Hollow Ichigo has his own that is connected to Ichigo's. This'll have to apply to every (important) character. Zhaeron6


 * I don't think this is a good idea it is something that an easaly get out of hand like for example "Rukia and Ichigo are (in love) (have feelings) or something among those terms so it should be avoided especially if making it in a different page. Hollow Ichigo is a diffrent case he is a character all in himself because he ahs his on thoughs ambitions and skills that are different from Ichigo. things that happened in the actual mange such as Orihime telling Ichigo her felings are O.K. because it is something that happened in the source and it is not especulation of any kind and it doesn't need an article to it self becuase it can easly be told in the characters page. Also make sure you sign your comments it makes it easier to know who said what WhiteStrike 20:01, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I was on pokepedia or whatever its called a while back, and i found out that they have pages where fans can edit a couple and give a name for them, so why dont we do it as well. NOTE: Before the page pops up pokepedia hs a infobow saying that the following page is about a certain couple and if they are disgusted they can turn away from the page. So basically im all for it cause it is just for fans to make pages and gives reasons why this couple will be together an such. PS i actually like the byakuya and soifon coupling to be honest. _


 * You're talking about Bulbapedia I seen those pages and yes i have seen such things on other wikis however Bulbapedia you must be a resgister user to edit anything here anyone can edit anything making it more easely for vandalism and things like this bring about lots of it. Also there are many fan cites in the internet for wiki in which suchs content would be more appropriate this wiki is about facts and such things are just fanfiction and speculations which can easily leak into main article pages WhiteStrike 00:30, 26 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Getting off topic for a sec, I'm not a Soifon/Byakuya basher. I mean, yeah, occasionally I read fan-fiction and I'm not in fan of this pairing, but I don't hate it either. Back on topic, I wasn't aware that Bulbapedia did that... well, not entirely. I think I remember that now (was it called "-shipping"?), but yeah. That's probably more suitable for the Bleach fanon wikia. The people at Bulbapedia have been around a lot longer than we have, and I'm guessing that maybe when they did put up things like that, they did not think of any other optional approaches at the time. This is actually better left with official info. And yeah, like WhiteStrike said, the problem is that people can used biased information and might put up speculation as fact in terms of how each character relates to another. Again, I'm not saying I'm opposed to this idea, but I think it's important that we know some of the disadvantages of putting this up. Arrancar109 02:48, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I understand. Should we put a "wiki disclaimer" like the one this page has (Please put your content under this line. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes) in order to stop said fan-fiction from occurring, or do you have another idea? Zhaeron6.


 * I think that the bleach fanon wiki website idea is a good one, but i dont think i can see what ur saying becoming a big thing on this wiki zhaeron, but if u can make it work thhen sure. Also it doesnt really matter to me which idea is chosen because it will be happening either way (Either on bleach fanon or this wiki).

All right, time for a vote.

When did we agree on this?
From what I read here only one maybe two people like the idea one was not clear on his answer and lean more on opposite to it and i clearly opposed it yet whoever put a voting score on top syas is 4 votes (yes) 0 votes (no). I seen said articles and they are bearly one paragraph long there is absolutley no need for said articles and it will just have us having to clean more vandalism and fanfiction/especulation more often than what we already have to deal with WhiteStrike 21:09, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I've only been editing content on what I saw, but I admit that I myself was confused on the subject of why it was up. I also question what will happen with what's been put up so far. What do you propose we do exactly? I think part of the problem is that nobody officially voted and this topic kind of went dead for awhile, so it somewhat went undecided until now. Arrancar109 21:17, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * For know all we can do is stop further incease of said pages inform the person whi has been creating them to stop for the time being and decide on an appropriate course of action. Since the pages are already up we'll see if they hold any value as stand alone articles, and decide if we are going to delete them or leave them beWhiteStrike 21:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Um, at first i was kind of ok with the idea for the relationships, but now (no offence) i think that the relationships are just ruining the character pages and are a waste of time, so i agree and i will help with seeing if they hold any value as stand alone articles.


 * Well, excuse me to flood a little, but I don't understand the point of creating a page for relationship, it's like creating a separate page for history : For me, Relationships of the characters ARE part of him, and should be included in the wikipage of the character(in hidden template if needed), err, am I wrong ?(also, considering the medium-sized community of the wiki, I find it strange to make a proposition win with 4 vote, as it is an important thing, should we put an advert on main page as we did for featured article ?)

Maybe not as stand-alone articles, but as part of the specific character's page. Do you agree? If so, then I suggest that we leave Ichigo's alone since he has the most amount of relationships. Zhaeron7.

---
I think the whole relationships thing is a bad idea to put them up on the article if you are just gonna make a seperate page for it any ways, i.e
 * Err, seriously, I'm totally AGAINST separate page, and I consider that 4 votes are not enough to agree with it...(So, I actually deleted Byakuya's relationship page, peoples just kept reverting a blanking to put useless content that you can easily find on char's page)

I think that the section should be on the character's page but be hidden because it's not that important (cause its kind of along the lines of personalit and synopsis) -

Should we get an IRC Channel ?
Well, there cannot be simplest thing, the question is all on the tittle : Should we get an IRC Channel for the Wiki ?(w:c:Wikia:Wikia_IRC_channels to get more informations ^^)  M i l i -Ci en   sys 01:58, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not to familiar with IRC channels what are they use for? and how would it help our wiki? WhiteStrike 23:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

It could help in a simple way, just a community that can talk faster, and stuff :D (And help, too)... Then, I don't really know howto explain IRC ^-^'  M i l i -Ci en   sys 23:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * See Forum:Wouldn't an IRC Chat be better for Discussions? for a continuation of this. -- Yyp (Talk) 21:59, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Featured, time, organisation, what we need
So..Err...No, we didn't start [too] late the vote, it's just... Time that goes too fast..(so, everyone trust me I guess, no?)

Well, so, to avoid getting this late each month, we should get organization(and try to respect it last month). What I suggest : Start between the 20/21 and the 25/26(depending if the month ends on 30 or 31), and let it lasts untill 30/31(of the current month) or 5(of the next month), it lets people 10 days to vote, and we are able to put the featured article in the begginings of the month...So, few lines, I just wanna know what do you think about it :p


 * Defenetly start early hold the poll between the 20 and the 25\26 so we can make sure we have the new one on the 1st of the month WhiteStrike 20:16, 15 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree. It's a better organization system than what we've been doing, but then again, we weren't organized in the voting. I guess on February, we'd start voting for the March article starting on the 20/21, since February's the shortest month. Arrancar109 20:26, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Cero Oscuro or Cero Oscuras
This Poll is now closed' all links will now be Cero Oscuras and on the Cero Article will be annotated the Cero Oscuro as the correct grammar.WhiteStrike 20:15, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

(Final results : Oscuro : 420 | Oscura : 449)

I have noted that some feel that he name of the new Cero should be spelled as Oscuras and others as Cero Oscuro please help decide Bleach Wiki which we should use by casting your votes Below. For more info on the subject check out the Talk:Cero page. WhiteStrike 19:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, if the case is that the author misspelled it, then it should remain Oscuras, while it should be indicated that it was misspelled, and the correct one should have been Oscuro. (I do not speak Spanish, so in the latter case I am relying on those who do). Domlith 14:53, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Cero Oscuras
1.Oscuro sounds better in a way but oscuras is what ulquiorra said so oscuras it is.Besides it does sound cool Dr.Ayzen 23:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

2. It should absolutely be "Oscuras". Yes it's bad Spanish, but IT'S WHAT HE SAID. To correct the form is nothing short of altering canonical material.

Furthermore, Kubo has done this before and the name was left the way he put it. For example

Gémelos Sonído (Hemerosu Sonīdo) : should be Gemelo Sonido

Brazo Derecha de Gigante: should be Brazo Derecho de Gigante

Brazo Izquierda del Diablo: should be Brazo Izquierdo del Diablo

So, it's nothing new really. Leave it the way he says it. Daisekihan 03:49, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

3. I think it should be oscuras. why should it be oscuro? oscuras is what he said!!!! Kisukeiscool100396

4.The Arrancar abilities seem to have a language basis; spanish. "To obsure" in spanish is "Oscurar" "you obsure" is "oscuras" and "i obscure" is "oscuro". could go any way, but i like oscuras.--Ulquiorra Wannabe128 09:55, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

5. Tite Kubo has said Cero Oscuras. So that's the correct name even if it is bad spanish. Now it looks like "Cero Oscuro" would win this but we can't write a wrong name on our pages. This poll is senseless.

6. Oscuras all the way considering this site is supposed to provide accurate information. By altering its name just because "It sounds better" is basically a somebody telling the creator that what he did was wrong and it should be done another way. Sure its bad Spanish but its what Kubo said and that's the name he gave it. Its the same thing as calling Ulquiorra Ollquoirru or anything of the like. You'd be editing the real information with something YOU preferred. Its just wrong considering that this site is supposed to provide accurate information.

7. Cero Oscuras is what was said so I think it should be left that way. However, I also think that all instances of incorrectly used Spanish should at least be pointed out and and have a more correct usage provided. Rabukurafuto 21:15, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

8. "Cero Oscuras" is what Kubo wrote and Ulquiorra said. As a native Spanish speaker it does sound weird and gramatically incorrect, but still, just as Chad's techniques, it should stay with the mistake. And the series is in Japanese, so the Cero Oscuras doesn't sound that bad. Lia Schiffer 02:17, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

9. Agree with all above who pointed out that "Cero Oscuras" is what Kubo wrote. Because he did that, I would not endeavor to correct it. I'm not particularly bothered by it, despite it being in an incorrect form. Big red01027 08:12, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

10. I agree with those who agree with Oscuras. It may be wrong but that is what he wrote and aren't we used to the other mistakes he's done? Like the naming of the ranks of the Espada. it should have been in masculine form but it was written in feminine form. Let's just get used to it.--Agate genbu 14:53, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

11. Grammatically incorrect or not, it's what was used. This is a wiki for Bleach, not the Spanish language. I have nothing against a note that it SHOULD be Oscuro, but unless Kubo himself changes the name I believe that it should be written as Oscuras here. —Kits 18:53, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

12. I voted after the first couple of hours this forum started. So I have to say, I'm changing my opinion after finding out how much incorrect Spanish has been used already in the manga. However we could use the correct form (Oscuro) in some way.Renji Abarai 01:03, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

13. Even if it is incorrect Spanish, it is what was said. So I vote for Oscuras, though I suggest maybe mentioning that the proper Spanish is Obsuro somewhere..Acacia Akiyama 04:24, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

14. I have to agree. Just because it's incorrect, doesn't mean you should change it. That's stupid, and meaningless. Not only that, this site is supported by Bleach fans, and we should put ACCURATE information on the site, not something that "sounds cooler". And besides, I personally think "Cero Oscuras" flows with the tongue better. Lezzlam 1:22, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

15. I have to go with Cero Oscuras. Not only was it as Ulquiorra said, but this is also not the first time incorrect Spanish has been used(Chad's arms, Gémelos Sonído and Espada Diez Yammy).Strategist9 21:12, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

16. Oscuras is way more better, because where is the charm of the series if we go around changing the artist will, and Spanish is even my native language, and who knows maybe he is referring to the complete darkness where he engulf the enemy when impacts him, in spanish being at the darkness is translated as "Estar a Oscuras" but you are the ones to decide and im with Strategist 9 is not the first time that incorrect spanish appears. Josear XIII 9:17, 2 March 2009

17. I'm in favor of Oscuras as well... Ages ago, i been engaged in a little but significant editing war on Sado Yasutora article because i was sure that "Brazo Derecha de Gigante" and "Brazo Izquierda del Diablo" should be Brazo DERECHO and IZQUIERDO, but a fellow user told me that we should keep Izquierda and Derecha 'cause the author wrote it that way, doesn't matter if that's good or bad Spanish. So i think we should keep it as Cero Oscuras. About the automatized poll... i think we need to check it out, it seems to be broken. I voted for Cero Oscuras and the poll registered not 1 but.... 10 votes! A fellow user also told me he has been voting every day and after a couple minutes he can vote again, and the poll count every single vote. I'm yet to prove it out, but if that's true, the poll can be cheated easily. Maul day 02:43, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

18. I'd go with Oscuras too. As far as we know, it's what Ulquiorra really said, unless the translators have always made mistakes with the Spanish-Japanese shifts. There's a possibility Kubo himself made mistakes too, but who cares, really? He's the mangaka, what he says goes. We should find out which Kubo really wrote, whether it was Oscura or Oscuro, and not debate about this. :p

19. I believe that although there may be better more gramatically correct ways to spell the spanish motifs the artist's intent in misspelling it may have been on purpose

Cero Oscuro

 * 1) My vote will go With Oscuro. WhiteStrike 19:30, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 2) Of course it should be Oscuro, since Cero is masculine, not feminine(Oscura = Cera.) Plus it sounds better.Renji Abarai 20:04, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 3) Oscuro. Grammatically correct and it sounds cooler. Maggosh 01:57, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 4) Go with the crowd.User:DieJARJARDIE 21:42, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 5) I voted for Oscuro as well, but I think Maul day makes a good point. To be honest, I'm not sure how close the manga translators get the Japanese-to-Spanish translations correct. On some occasions, they might make the Spanish technically correct. I don't know for sure. Overall, I think we should go with whichever wins for now, but again, whatever the Anime states it as, we should probably go with what that is. And yes, I know that'll be awhile, but still, I think it's valid. Arrancar109 20:25, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Cero Oscuro
Both of them are great names for the almighty black-colored Cero, but we should prefer the accurate Cero Oscuras or maybe put both. Dekoshu talk contrib 21:28, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have anything to say about my comment and the idea of putting either name or put both? Dekoshu talk contrib 04:07, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Copyrights
Well, as you saw, our sitenotice's about that, bold text in the main page about copyright, a template... And still nothing, so many uploads without any fair use or something, and let's avoid talking about "advert-ignoring"... But, we want or we don't, these images are licensed... So does anyone have any idea about how to "force" fair use usage ? ^-^'  M i l i -Ci en   sys 17:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)



An unfortunate quandary. despite years of Internet use, the world has yet to find any way of completely blocking copy written material from being uploaded/downloaded/sent has spam. we might just be screwed here. Or you could just put a watermark saying "Property of Tite Kubo LLC" in the corner. might reduce legal problems. Exdeath64 08:49, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Xmas Design
Hello world ! As you know, we're entering in December, and Christmas/New Year are soon here, and I was wondering, should we make a special CSS/Design with BleachChristmasPictures for that or let the wiki as he always been ?

GOD no! if we did that, the site would be flooded with crappy fan art, not to mention the PC crap, if we put Christmas, sooner or later, some users will starts complaining about no Kwanzaa or Hanukkah stuff being present Exdeath64 22:09, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's right(and for new year ?^^) And no, it was not in my plan, whatever, to add fanart, but you're right about respect ;)