Forum:Imaginative battles...who would win and why?

So I was looking through a few pages on here and came up with a few random battle ideas and wanted to know any thoughts about who would win and/or why?

My first would be...if they were to fight, even years and years ago when he was alive and presumably stronger than Hitsugaya, could Kaien Shibe ever beat Toshiro? My guess is no, because Toshiro's zanpaktou is based upon it's ability to manipulate water. He states something along the lines that as long as there is water in the air, ground, etc that he will never be powerless and Shiba's zanpaktou is a water type, giving the obvious advantage to Hitsugaya to me. Shiba would HAVE to overpower his reiatsu and have a few tricks up his sleeve to stand a chance. Thoughts?

Next...from what we've seen so far Renji and Ikkaku. Similar fighters, although Renji has a clear advantage with Zabimaru being able to attack from a distance, Ikkaku is stronger than Renji, and presumably a bit more talented swordsman (debatable). Again...my opinion, I'd give this to Renji, because he is willing to do whatever it takes to win, and Ikkaku has been shown to be "ok" with dying or losing...so in that respect, even Bankai to Bankai I'd give the advantage to Renji.

This whole time I've been trying to come up with a decent challenger that Kira wouldnt beat or wouldnt get smashed by, anyone have an idea who would be a good fight versus Kira? (only one I could come up with would be Hisagi, but if he gets hit by Wabisuke once, it's over as he would be much slower (if hit on his body), and presumably wouldnt be able to throw Kazeshini if it was struck more than once...I think Kira has the edge over all the Lts based on his shikai ability, but would be basically powerless against almost all the captains as they all have ranged attacks. We saw in the newest arc that his reiatsu was still not strong enough to stand up to Zaraki, but that could be an interesting fight if he could block enoguh attacks by Kenpachi he could theoretically disarm him. Actually I just came up with an idea. After she releases her shikai, what about a fight between Kira and Matsumoto? We've already seen the fight, but what if it was allowed to continue? I still have Kira, but it could be interesting. Although if he were to release his full power, Yumichika could provide a good fight for Kira, although I still think Kira could outwit Yumichika. We've seen that the tentacles of Ruriru Kujaku can be cut with a sword or bound by kido (which Kira is exceptionally well versed in), so while it is a great power if able to be used, I don't see Kira losing this battle either.

If allowed to continue, who would win between Byakuya and Kenpachi? My guess is Byakuya, even if Kenpachi releases his eyepatch. I think that kido is the answer...just use 6 rod prison (a technique he's used more than once) and Kenpachi presumably wouldnt be able to move for long enough for Byakuya to land a fatal blow. We know Byakuya won't be intimidated by Zaraki's reiatsu...so I don't think he'd win.

Best for last...(yeah I know it's getting long but I'm bored...)hand-to-hand specialists...Yoruichi vs Kensei...I honestly don't know who I would give the advantage to. They are both exceptionally gifted in the same area of combat, one is a speed demon, and the other is incredibly strong...so it would really come down to the bankai vs shunko debate...If I had to bet, I'd go with Yoruichi...no real reason yet, other than with Shunko, she still has a shikai, bankai (presumably), BUT Kensei has his hollow mask and powers to supplement...a Bankai+hollow Kensei might be fast enough to keep up with Yoruichi and if that's possible we've seen that she isnt as tough as we'd like and he could win (Without Shunko she attacked Yammy and took damage just beating the pulp out of him)

If you have any other battles you'd like to see or arguments with my assessments throw the ideas out there...I love to debate. Orionradar 06:15, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Since Momo was in school for 5 yrs before toshiro was (and she was in her first yr with rukia-- and rukia was in school 50(hisana dies)-1= 49 (when rukia was found by byakuya) years ago-- so depending what year she was at the time, it could have been anywhere from 43-38years ago(i'll just say ~40) that toshiro entered the academy, and he had shikai before he finished in a year(movie=trustable on that:\?-- and sorry for having to put this in) Even if kaien entered with Low vicecaptain reiatsu(and thats a big if), he would have had 60-70 years of training by the first point they could actually meet up(or enough for him to go to high vicecap. lvl/low captain lvl). I feel that toshiro probably entered the academy with high vice/low captain lvls of reiyoku--- of which in just 1 yr he wouldn't be able to use it all.  So at best i would say toshiro would have been like the Gin who easily killed a 3rd seat after a yr-- aka low vicecaptain lvl (since captain--which includes V.capt. lvl is said to be before anything below it) So i feel that if your asking if he was still alive that anytime till about 30years ago (which would give ~10 yrs for toshiro to have gotten (though most likely he got it far later(since he became captain recently enough that renji didn't know of him)--bankai/captain level.  I would say that kaien would have at least been high vicecaptain lvl in reiatsu-- though if reiyoku usually goes up so slowly that a large gap isn't remedied even after hundreds of years, his reiyoku would probably be weaker than toshiros.  So by 30 years ago, toshiro and him would have had around the same level of strength in reiatsu (it really depends on how fast he WOULD have improved as well as if Toshiro had been the 10 yrs to bankai(low captain lvl) as well as when exactly he actually got his shikai though.. So if your saying he was still alive= he had those years of exp, then i would say that anytime up to 35yrs ago kaien= auto win, and anytime 20yrs ago+= toshiro's (curse you lvl 6 not being descriptive enough..) higher latent reiyoku would give him enough of an advantage that he would more likely be the winner. And then it really depends on talent exactly where they would have been even today... Now if your asking me to take kaien of 100something yrs ago, and directly comparing him to toshiro, then toshiro may have been the winner from as near as 35years ago.

Ikkaku I felt had more reiyoku even though the lvl is around the same in reiatsu, and while his shikai range may be more, he probably could take adv. of those openings that ichigo took advantage of, while NOT lacking the speed that ichigo of that fight did. So i feel that whether he kept fighting till they both ran out of reiyoku or just to find the winner that Ikkaku would still win in a serious shikai only fight. In bankai i feel that they both use up reiyoku pretty fast so it would depend on how much time has passed since the start. This applies for both the sleeping sword and my belief that Ikkaku has a bit more reiyoku than renji (which i admit is based on when they fought their spirits) since otherwise we can't accurately gauge how strong those hits were from bull/volcano arms:\. A short battle favors Renji (who also has his cannon blast to use at any time) while a longer one would start to favor the destructive force of Ikkaku.

No comment on 3rd fight

I would put Kensei, since he was a captain and kept training over the years while Yoruichi had been out of stamina after not really training much over time. Since most captains can at least keep up with each other decently, i don't think he would have gone down even if he had no hollow abilities (when you take the stamina issue into account). SO most likely Yoruichi would have to finish it relatively fast. I have the feeling that Shunko can't be used during bankai--in that it already is explosive enough that its not completely under control. So at best that power of bankai would make enough instability that her reiatsu would fluc. between low seated-->high captain (which is how I interpret Ul. comment about ichigo) which wouldn't really be much help now would it. So far far more than with Renji/Ikkaku this is not so much a question of reiatsu but usable reiyoku(since while she still had stamina we know it was far more). And even if he had been one of the weaker captains (which we can't determine) then with the mask probably near doubling the reiatsu he releases(unless their hollows don't get stronger after they subdue them (if ichigo is special in that)-- which we can't tell either way either), he would be a decent enough match in a short match of both people trying to end it fast. Now if she had increased her stamina since soul society back up then the match is up in the air. It really depends on what his normal shunpo speed abilities are, if he is like the soul society chad of the captains then yeah.... Worldninja