Forum:The only useful division?

For me I think practically every squad is utterly useless since they always get their posteriors kicked easily (sugar coating for any young readers) except for the fourth division who even though never fight are the only ones with abilities that are useful enough, where as the 11th (except for the obvious ones) were depicted as tools who have barely any skills aside from weak swordsmanship, the rest may be less tough but they're not that much different. by the way I am only referring to the lower seated and non seated soldiers.--SalmanH 15:24, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Well for any serious enemy only high seated officers and captains are capable of dealing with them, so yes the lower ranked squad members are useless in that sense, but there's more to being a soul reaper than the big fights, hollows pop up in the real world and in rukongai quite often, and the captains and high ranked officers are too busy to deal with every single hollow occurence, and that's where the unranked squad members come in. Patrolling and so forth. Also remember that almost every single shinigami captain, vice captain or 3rd-5th seat, who are the only 'useful' people in the squads according to you, were originally unranked shinigami who had to rise through the ranks by advancing their skills. Who knows how many future officers are still unranked in some random squad? BollyW 20:52, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, but still, the low ranking generic Soul Reapers are worthless. Every now & then if they aren't fighting they can look pretty strong. Like in one of the most recent eps aired in U.S. the unnamed Soul Reaper uses Hado 4 & his skill with it looked pretty good. But overall they are pathetic. I mean I could take on at least one, with just my barehands. Squad 11 Generic Soul Reapers are supposed to be the best squad in fighting & they get pummeled regularly, so what does that say for the others. Minato88 21:04, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Aha sorry to sound a little sceptical, but taking on a soul reaper with your bare hands? Don't forget that to be a soul reaper requires some spiritual energy, and you, like the vast majority of spirits, would probably be a rukon resident with none. So not only would they have a sword and basic knowledge of kido and shunpo, they have higher reaitsu than you and so are physically stronger. But that aside, they still have their uses in the day to day running of soul society. It is true that the military strength of the Gotei 13 rests in their captains (and to a lesser extent the vice-captains) but the rest still have their uses against lower level hollows and so on. As for 11th division, we've only seen them fight against Ichigo, Ganju and Chad, all of whom are far above your normal soul reaper. Ichigo defeated Ikkaku, Renji and Byakuya and drew with Kenpachi, does that make them worthless? Hardly. BollyW 21:59, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, the whole thing about me taking one barehanded was actually just a joke. Still, the only real function the generic Soul Reapers really do is keep the Seretei clean & regulate all of the usual functions of the squad. The Hollow, Shrieker, was just an ordinary Hollow & in two months had managed to devour two Soul Reapers(Generic Ones). Also, Grand Fisher(though he was quite strong for an ordinary Hollow)was able to devour countless Soul Reapers(Generic Ones) & managed to evade the Soul society for 50+ years. & no matter how anyone looks at it, Grand Fisher(as a Hollow)was by no means as strong as a Menos. So really Squad 4 is the only squad worth its salt & in a twisted irony, they are picked on by the other squads. Minato88 01:07, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Shrieker and Grand fisher might not have been very strong but they weren't being able to eat Shinigami because of their strength. They were managing to outwit shinigami because of their special abilities. Shrieker had that nasty artillery system and Grand fisher that lure and memory searching ability. They aren't average hollows. They were certainly in the upper scale of the ordinary hollow scale. Tinni 01:28, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I would like to point out that we haven't see a lot of rank and file shinigami in the manga, nor have we see rank and file shinigami against opponents they are duty bound to fight. I.e. ordinary hollows. Excluding Rukia because she being a major character is different, Zennosuke Kurumadani is the only rank and file shinigami we have seen for any length of time and he isn't bad. He did fairly well in the Karakura Riser filler arc, which is based on Volume sketchs. Other low ranking shinigami we have see are Jirōbō Ikkanzaka who got pwned by Ishida, a person much more powerful then most hollow and someone with fairly high reiatsu; Tatsufusa Enjōji went up against Chad, again much more powerful then most hollow with high reiatsu; Hanatarō Yamada, Harunobu Ogidō and Yasochika Iemura are all 4th and they are very good members of the 4th and good at what the 4th does. Point is that Yumichika and Ikkaku are actually Vice-captain and Captain level in power, they just choose to remain 3rd adn 5th seat. They aren't true rank and file or ordinary seated officers. Apart from them, no other member of the 11th has shown themselves to be any more powerful or more useful then member of any other squad. The Anime fillers and movies do tend to use the "other" shinigami as screen fodder, put em up and watch em getting cut down. But that doesn't mean much. I think most Gotei 13 shinigami are very good at their job regardless of their division. Except that there job is to kill the average hollow, not fight menos or arrancars. That's what captains and vice-captains are for! Tinni 01:23, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but Tinni we are referring to Soul Reapers that are like 17th or 18th Seats & below. We don't know if Sennosuke is a ranked officer(but I think he is(Just my opinion))plus we don't even know what squad the guys from. Personally, I don't think we will ever know. Minato88 01:38, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Right after I posted the above comment, something came to me. I guess i'm just too much like Head Captain Yamamoto. I don't have any respect for the weaklings. Minato88 01:40, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * That's more Aizen and not Yama-jii. I don't think Yama-jii has any problems with people who are weak. I just think Yama-jii believes it is his duty to protect the weak. If you are referring to what he said to Nanao, well he was angry with Ukitake and Kyoraku and didn't want to waste time with Nanao's antics knowing that she didn't stand a chance against him. It doesn't mean he doesn't like her. She's his future daughter-in-law after all! :-) I also don't think he meant anything with his comment to Kira. He was just ribbing the young people these days. Being the resident friendly and nice old man who dispenses candy when he isn't turning you into ash. Tinni 02:17, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I remember reading somewhere that Yamamoto doesn't have any respect for low ranking officers & only respects Caps, Lieus, &, strong third, fourth & fifth seats. Sorry, I can't reference this, but not having any respect for & disliking someone is two different things. Still, I wonder where I read this & now i'm beginning to think it was just speculation. Oh whats up with Nanao being his daughter-in-law. That sounds like an inside joke & I want in on it. :) Minato88 02:24, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I have never read anything where he doesn't respect low ranking officers from official sources. I think as long as you do your job and follow the rule of law he's cool with you. The Nanao being his future daughter-in-law is just a joke about how Kyoraku and Ukitake are like sons of Yama-jii and we all know Kyoraku has the hots for Nanao. Thus... future daughter-in-law :-D Tinni 02:52, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Ahaha but Kyoraku's a seedy seedy man so I'd hardly take his antics towards Nanao that seriously, although I may be proved wrong. He does care about her though, more then most captains seem to care about their vice-captains (I'm looking at you Byakuya, Soifon and Mayuri). I think Yama doesn't have respect for anyone who is content to stay at that level, as in he respects it when people try to better themselves regardless of their actual current ability. But I may just be inferring this, I don't exactly have proof. BollyW 03:05, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot he thinks of them as his sons, that's funny. Also, I am going to forget about what I heard about Yamamoto, since I can't remember where I heard it from. I guess i'm like Aizen & I have no respect for the low class weaklings(I think by saying that i'm like Aizen, part of me just died on the inside). Minato88 03:09, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Actually Tinni (ASA abbreviation (for the regular greeting)) have you ever really seen those shinigami go up against any hollows in the series and not dying, most of them dying or winning with the help of a Lieutenant, Captain, 3rd seat, or Ichigo, and no fillers. It should also be known that the odds of reaching high ranks like that are slim, on the other hand most hollows appear in towns that have sufficiently powerful shinigami to guard them and rarely do they appear in SS and even if they do it's either the Omnitskido with Soifon yelling shrilly like a two year old in a tantrum when not gushing for Yoruichi (I just had to make the reference, perfect moment) or some squads with a couple of Vice captains or something similar, other wise the only duty those soldiers have is to run SS's daily operations.--SalmanH 06:26, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * ASA ^.^ That's just my point. We haven't really seen rank and file shinigami fight with the exception of Zennosuke Kurumadani and Rukia. So we really don't know what their battle prowess is. Some fought against Ichigo and co and that's about it. I think rank and file shinigami are fully capable of disposing of average hollows, who as you did mention, only rarely appear in Soul Society. So the average shinigami will only see action when they are deployed in the real world. But deployment to the real world is a duty of the Gotei 13, not the Omnitsukido and that's a tough dangerous task. However, there is no doubt that only a small fraction of the shinigami are ever capable of becoming captain or even a vice-captain. It has always been implied that "captain level shinigami" (which includes both captains and vice-captains) are something else. Anyway, point is that Gotei 13 has 3000 troops. We can assume that at any given time many of said troop is in the real world fighting hollow or patrolling Rukongai. Patrolling Rukongai might not be dangerous but deployment to the living world certainly is and I very much doubt that the troops deployed to the living world only come from one division given that each division has only 200 members. So I don't think there is such a thing as the "only useful division". I just think that the stories we are seeing are such that most shinigami cannot feature in it in any significant way. Tinni 06:57, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I never said they did come from one division, but due to the unlikely chance that enemies on the same level as those soldiers appearing they can't display their power due to regularly thrown around like rag dolls unfortunately by every new enemy that comes in, it's the fourth division that tends to them minutes later.--SalmanH 07:27, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much all Shinigami below vice captain level are useless, except for a few exceptions, like Rukia, Ikkaku and Yumichika. I mean, Chad, using the crappier version of his DEFENSE arm, owned a 3rd seat in one hit, in season 2 or 3, when he still sort of sucked. Like Aizen said, most of the fighting ability is in the captains (though he seems to have forgotten that there's almost as many ex-captains as current ones).