Forum:Isshin Kurosaki

This is an official thread dedicated to Isshin Kurosaki. Please keep all discussion related to him here. There are a couple of existing topics about him that have been run their course and are now closed. Below you will find links to them. If you wish to continue any of those discussions, do so here, not in the old threads. Also, feel free to start new discussions, but remember to keep the Bleach Wiki:Speculation Policy in mind. -- Yyp (Talk) 09:48, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo and his father
ok i am new to all of this my bother got me into this now tell me Ichigo father is a shinigami right now when is he going or anybody finds out the he Ichigo father when will that come into play i know that only a handful of people nows but when will Ichigo find out

That is a big question. Unfortunately no one knows the answer. so far only Urahara, Ryukan and Kon seem to know that he is a Shinigami. Time runs longer for us a readers then it does in the story. Only about 8 months have gone by in the story will about 8 years have passed in real life. So it has been some time since we found out but not that long in the story. Salubri (Talk)  07:08, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Now that Isshin and Ichigo are fighting Aizen and Gin respectively. I do have one question. Has Isshin ever seen kyoka suigetsu being released ? Because if yes, then i don't think Isshin has any chance of defeating Aizen, now that he has revealed the hogyokou embedded within him. If not, Isshin, given the fact that he is at captain level, along with ichigo could very well take Aizen down. Kishen1912 14:22, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

No one mentioned this, but in the last chapter of BLEACH, Isshin attacked Aizen and the attack he used was Getsuga Tensho. Does anybody find that cool and also intriguing? Ichigo's zanpakuto has the same attack as Isshin or vice versa. I think that says something about the strong bond between father and son. Although, i am surprised that Isshin's zanpakuto isnt the same size as ichigo's but then again, Ichigo was always in his shikai because of his lack of control of his spiritual pressure. so nevermind my last comment. As I was saying, in some weird twisted way, Zangetsu is the bond between Ichigo and Isshin. I mean, Zangetsu is an old man and kind of like Ichigo's guide or mentor in a way that Isshin sometimes lack. Hm, so then how is Isshin's Zangetsu. . . a hot headed teenager? I guess my point of my rant is to think about the bond they share and to understand that this bond is so strong and transcended into a physical zanpakuto. Mimi-soutaicho125 02:15, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

WAIT! Ichigo's shikai is that big zanpakuto he had at the start of the series. It is strange that Isshin's shikai isnt the same size or Ichigo's smaller. They are both captain levels. I just wanted to clear up that misunderstanding. If i didnt i can come back. Mimi-soutaicho125 02:28, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree with that, that wasn't his zanpakuto at all otherwise Urahara wouldn't have been able to destroy it so easily. I think it was just some stand-in based on the powers he stole from Rukia. Anyway back to Isshin, I'm betting since his powers are almost identical to Ichigo's, and Isshin learned Final Getsuga Tensho, and obviously still has shinigami powers, there's hope for Ichigo. Staxeon 0440, October 22 2010 (UTC)

Theory on Isshin's relatives.
I think Isshin is a former member of the Shiba family and somehow lead to the fall of the Shiba house in Soul Society.

Pretty farflung theory but I thought I'd throw it out there...Sata1991 00:38, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

To be a theory it has to be based on something. How do you figure that is a former member of the shiba family. Salubri (Talk)  00:55, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo looks like Kaien, the Shiba family fell from nobility (possibly because Isshin fell in love with Ichigo's mother and left for the human world) Like I said I'm not positive, but it makes sense to me Sata1991 15:13, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Here's the issue. 1.) The Shiba family fell from nobility long ago when Kaien and his sister were still young. Where as Isshin has only been in the human world as a human for the past 20 years. Thus they lost their status anywhere before 110 years ago (when kaien became a lt.) to 9 years after. 2.) Other people make a connection that Ichigo looks like kaien (Ukitake, Rukia, Byakuya) but his own siblings Kukaku and Ganju have never remotely said anything along those lines. Salubri (Talk)  18:00, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ah thanks, I thought they lost it more recently than that.Sata1991 17:56, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Isshin's Zanpakuto
Ive noticed that isshin zanpakuto looks just like ichigos unreleased zanpakutoSasuke exiled 02:01, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

I was just wondering whether anyone else noticed that Isshin's Zanpakuto has the same shape tsuba as Aizen's Zanpakuto. 120324 19:57, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

I've noticed that, as well. I dont think it holds any significance due to the fact numerous Zanpaks have similar tsubas. ToneyB78 18:35, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

The last time i said this the topic got booted out as crack theory... :D Kishen1912 06:10, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

well if everyone was reading the latest manga, isshin uses getsuga tensho. What is everyones opinion on this? Im kind of confused but maybe zangetsu is isshins zanpakto.

i think isshin's zanpakuto is zangetsu as well, think about it ichigo is a substitute soul reaper and there are some things we still don't know about them so i could be that since ichigo isn't a true soul reaper he's just using a copied version of his fathers zanpakuto. i just hope that if that is the case that when isshin does release his that it will have a few differences and not be an exact copy.Soul reaper magnum 06:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, we've seen in Diamond Dust Rebellion (though it isn't canon) that a Zanpakuto can have two masters if they have twin souls. This could be Kubo making that theory canon, or he could just be having Isshin use similar techniques to Ichigo. Who knows? I personally am counting on it being Zangetsu at the moment. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 06:19, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Through further observation on the Isshin's Zanpakuto and Ichigo's Zanpakuto (in its original, non-released form as seen back in the very start of the show), the hilts are exactly the same. They both have the same design, tassels (if that's what you want to call them) and guard are all exactly alike. Of course the only difference is that whenever Ichigo first gained his powers, the sword much much larger. So it would not be completely farfetched to assume that he does in fact possess Zangetsu as well and that Ichigo inherited this ability somehow, which makes me wonder if the Shikai release would be like Zangetsu's or more advanced (not to mention the Bankai...;>_> it would be weird seeing Isshin all Ichigo'd out with the cloak and everything). TVthePunisher 08:44, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Nice observations... however there has to be more to it that kubo will reveal in upcoming chapters Kishen1912 09:04, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but the guard on Ichigo's original zanpakuto does not look like Isshin's - it is a different shape and design. Compare to. Yyp (Talk) 11:50, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry although I wanted to clear the air here, if you look at Isshin's zanpakuto it doesn't show any changes in pattern or guard, no tassels, chains or anything else, so this means they are covered up, probably on purpose to add suspense this means that if you believe that it's sealed it's speculation (I personally hate that term) otherwise that same logic would have applied to Urahara when he used the binding and destruction techniques with his zanpakuto, right.-- SalmanH  (Talk)  09:13, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * At this current time it may or may not be sealed, whenever I was stating the similarities I was referring to the times we have seen it while it was still sealed. Noting the picture of him using the move, while readying the attack and releasing it...you can still see the guard visible. This isn't to say that if his sword is definiately an original Zangetsu, that its Shikai would be the same as Ichigo's form. In fact, it could have its own form entirely...or it could still be sealed. However, all of this is speculation (yeah, the word isn't the best) until the next chapter, in which I'm sure Ichigo would have noticed the use of the move and they'll probably do a showing of Isshin's Zanpakuto (which hopefully will be released). TVthePunisher 09:21, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone else think that isshin's zanpaktou is a constant release type. The tsuba have the same shape as when it was in its sealed form. It would kind of make sense since him and ichigo use the same attack as well. Jordanbobordan88 14:42, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

if i remember, the reason ichigo(and kenpachi)'s zanpakuto doesn't have a sealed form is because they can't control there spiritual pressure enough to seal there zanpakuto. and also if i remember soul reapers that have mastered there zanpakuto can use some of it's abilities while it is still sealed.Soul reaper magnum 18:55, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i am wrong... Getsuga Tensho is an attack eats a bit of the user's reiatsu, amplifies and fires... pretty much like a loud-speaker... If a certain person is very skilled, he/she should be able to use a similar attack with their zanpakuto as well... though he/she may chose to call it whatever they wish... in Isshins case he chooses to call it Getsuga Tensho... just my interpretation of the events.. Kishen1912 07:26, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe Isshin's Zanpakuto is able to copy the attack or ability of another Zanpakuto, with some kind of limit I'm sure, and if he is able to do that he may also be able to cancel out an opponents Zanpakuto's powers. The reason I think this is because I doubt that Isshin will have the same Zanpakuto as his son and his power to copy and cancel would be a good way to keep from being hypnotized by Aizen. Also if this were true that would be why Aizen was having so much trouble fighting Isshin because he was unable to hypnotize him and had to rely on the rest of his power. This would also mean that Isshin would have a great amount of Spiritual Energy to be able to wear Aizen down, since Aizen has such a large amount of Spiritual Energy himself. Let me know what you all think about this. Unus7484 20:08, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

I believe that Isshin and Ichigo do share Zangetsu, one Zangetsu tells Ichigo "I hate the rain....." but we havent seen any rain 'inside' Ichigo so maybe it has rained 'inside' Isshin?, and also on the early episodes Tessai noticies something about Ichigo's Zanpaktou the first time he sees it, so maybe Tessai has already seen it before? Destrosadora 1:51, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

i didnt see this part down here about his zanpakuto but as i stated, it could be the manifestation of the bond Isshin and Ichigo share. About Isshin's ability to copy attacks Unus7484, how could he copy an attack he has never seen? Has Isshin ever seen Ichigo use his zanpakuto? If he has, the anime and manga do not elude to that fact but he did know Ichigo's soul reaper status so maybe he has been secretly watching from the sidelines like Urahara. Even Uryuu's dad seems to know a few things. Dad's in this manga/anime are kind of creepy and too secretive. Mimi-soutaicho125 02:24, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

If there is a connection between isshin's and ichigo's zanpaktous, i see a possible foreshadow to it that was very early in the series. I see a striking similarity between isshin's appearance and that of zangetsu. that would help to confirm the connection since zanpaktous and their masters tend to have simmilar looks(zap. is based of the soul of the wielder) so zangetsu not looking like ichigo but like isshin would help to confirm this theory in my opinion.-Superhuman2021 8:09, June 1, 2010 (Central)

I have to admit that, after reading all of the discussion here and from going back and looking at the manga images of Ichigo's and Isshin's sealed Zanpakuto, I was completly wrong about my speculation earlier. One thing I found in the manga is in chapter 63 where Ichigo pulls Zangetsu out of that box; if you look at it you can deffenatly see how Ichigo and Isshins both have the tassels and look very much alike. Not sure how all of this will be explained but cant wait to find out. Unus7484 14:12, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

I've spotted a major issue in Isshin's translated zanpakutou's name. The word '剡月', following Ichigo's zanpakutou's name - Moon cutter, means "Moon sharpener" or "Sharpening Moon", whichever you see fit. But as far as I can tell, "剡" doesn't mean scathing. Master-g 14:22, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

Wound of Isshin
i notice something in the latest.... the wound in the left part of his body.... just when did he got those?? did he get it when aizen uses raikaho?? Frostymoon 8:33, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

yea thts where its from

Sign comments! LintMint 13:36, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Thoughts on Isshin's past
I just want to know what other's ideas are on him. I have developed my own on him. I personally think he was the captain of Squad 10 before Hitsugaya. Squad 10 was the only squad not featured in Turn Back The Pendulum or Masked. And Hitsugaya is known to have not been a captain very long. Does all this sound logical?

Dunno... but i think in the turn back the pendulum arc, it is stated that the captain of Squad 10 died while on duty.... may be isshin was his replacement.. because 100 yrs back hitsugaya was definitely neither in the academy or in the squad lists... Kishen1912 (talk) 14:31, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

Isshin Definitely A Vice Captain (Captain Class Capabilities)?
It is fact that he said he is a Captain-Class Shinigami, maybe in terms of capabilities, but after reviewing all the current Vice-Captains and or Ex Vice-Captains, the way their wears their Division Badge, strapped on the left shoulder of their Shihakusho, afterall Isshin may not be a Captain but a definite Vice Captain.Soulreaper1234 (talk) 15:26, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

He has a captain's haori. He is a captain--God (Pray)  15:29, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Plus all current/past Captains do/did not wear the sash on their left shoulder, the site also has not decided on his rank yet, the piece of cloth maybe looks like a Captain's haori, but why does he wears that sash look very much more visible like a Division's badge?Soulreaper1234 (talk) 16:39, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

The fact that he has a captain's haori is good evidence that he was a captain. How he wears it shouldn't really be an issue. Taking that fact aside, it hasn't been stated whether or not he actually was a captain, but it has been said he is of captain-class power. It's probably safe to assume he was a captain, but it can't be confirmed until it is shown in the manga. CJett92 (talk) 17:09, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Appreciate if you guys paste any Link from the manga saying the piece of cloth was indeed a Captain's haori, saying he was indeed captain-class was like saying Ikkaku can be a Captain because he has Bankai, where Captain-Class may mean many things, like Ichigo who have reiatsu rivals that of a Captain-class Shinigami right?Soulreaper1234 (talk) 17:36, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Go take a look at it, it is definitely a haori, the division number is just not visible--God (Pray)  18:07, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

What The Bolivia is this? I was more refering to any saying/words describing the cloth was indeed a captain's haori and Isshin was indeed a captain of xxx division in the xxx time of... my point is if it is only the CLOTH than it is safe to assume he was indeed a Captain... then the GUY was also clearly seen wearing a visible Vice-Captain's Division Badge (only the number cannot be determined too), just like the current Vice Captains do wears them.Soulreaper1234 (talk) 18:29, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I get your point that he straps it on his left arm, but shouldn't that be overwritten by him having the captain's haori? He could wear it like that because he may just like the way it looks. The way he wears it isn't really important. What is important is that he has the haori. Also, when was he actually seen with a Vice Captain's badge? I don't remember any time in the story when he had one. CJett92 (talk) 18:39, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Okay it was here http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-188-page-2.html, the cloth and the pattern do suggest a captain's haori YES? But the sash that keeps em together also looks like a Vice Captain badge, although it was clearly drawn like this http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-410-page-19.html (and onwards) it still left me to think that he was capable of being a captain but yet unproven it is best said he can be a vice captain too, because the drawings were being presented like wise... there has not really any explanation other than he saying he is captain class--Soulreaper1234 (talk) 19:02, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Using you're second picture for comparison, look at the last panel on this page http://www.mangareader.net/94-555-8/bleach/chapter-101.html. They clearly aren't of the same design. CJett92 (talk) 19:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Just by looking at his haori and the level of his power, it's pretty apparent that Isshin was once a Shinigami captain. Like CJett said, the band Isshin uses to hold his haori on looks nothing like the ones that lieutenants wear. If anything, Kubo needed a way for Isshin to wear his haori without exposing the division symbol - tying it around his arm is both convenient and awesome. Mohrpheus (talk) 20:54, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah looks like it, actually very worried in the end Isshin was just a small time Vice Captain if the sash turns out to be a badge and he was just wearing the haori out of respect towards his former captain if the cloth aint his, you just never knows with Kubo he might do it differently01:03, September 14, 2010 (UTC)Soulreaper1234 (talk) 01:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

I have to say that Isshin was a captain at one point for two reasons. First if you look at haori you can see the pattern at the bottom is that of the captains. Second is the fact that he was able to fight Aizen one on one and wear Aizen down to the point where he was winded. This is something that not even a group of captains and Vizards was able to do so to say he is just a Vice Captain would just not fit with his power. Unus7484 (talk) 00:24, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, first of all, that thing could just as easily be decoration. There's no indication that it really IS a haori, though I agree with you, there's a good possibility that it could be a haori. I believe so myself, but I'm cautioning against jumping to conclusions. We can conclude that IF he really did come from Soul Society, he would have to have been a captain, because yeah, I agree, there's no way that he couldn't be a captain if just flipping Aizen off was able to send him through a couple buildings. Besides that, he was able to do some damage to Aizen with his Getsuga Tensho, which is something that there's no way that a Vice Captain could do, unless the vice captains from long ago were that much beastlier than the ones today, which I seriously doubt. But Isshin could easily be a Substitute Shinigami, because I don't think that Gigai, which, from what Rukia's time in a Gigai has shown us, deteriorate over time, can reproduce. But we still don't know anything about Isshin's life as a Shinigami, so no one should go jumping to conclusions just yet. We can speculate, sure, but we shouldn't go think anything is right, just the "most likely scenario". Aeron Solo (talk) 19:21, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Isshin lossing his spiritual pressure- Ichigo Useless?
If anyone else has noticed but me but Urahara mentioned to Isshin when we 1st find out he is a soul reaper that he has regained his spiritual pressure. Also he was not useless anymore. my take on it is that since he knows the final getsuga tensho and everything. he must have done the same thing ichigo did with his Bankai. As we know Ichigo does not have any spiritual pressure right now. If Isshin did the same thing as Ichigo will Ichigo become weak and loose all of his power like his dad did. My feel is that in the end of the final battle, Ichigo will loose all of his power therefore ending the series as a regular student at karakura high school and everyone will live happilly ever after. anyone else see that comming if there is not another antagonist after Aizen?Jaybirt5 (talk) 20:39, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Good point! Maybe that's how Isshin lost his spiritual powers and I guess the same thing might well happen to Ichigo. However I understand that there will be at least two more arcs after the current one; first a short one and then a longer one. Perhaps these arcs will deal with Ichigo getting his powers back. After all, he is so suped up right now that there isn't much competition for him unless the setting changes dramatically and the other characters are dropped.SutekinaKaoboi (talk) 01:51, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Well i think that isshin had to use the final getusga bc of a fight just like ichigo but the question is who did he have to fight so powerful to use it on? i dont kow if aizen is ready to die yet i think he still has something to do bc he still hasnt tolf why he has been watching ichigo since he was born.lordaizen20 september 16

Oh yea i just about nailed it!!! i knew it was gonna happen like this!!!Jaybirt5 (talk) 20:51, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

In the most recent chapter, we find out about Final Getsuga Tenshō, you lose your shinigami powers. Seeing that Ichigo and Isshin sport similar blades, could they have the same power? Which also would mean is that why Isshin is so "weak" because he used it, and hence why when others see him(forget who) they mention I see you got your power back. But now is, how did he get his power back if this is true? Yialanliu (talk) 01:05, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

First "Weak" is the wrong term. It doesn't apply to him on any level. At one point he had Shinigami powers and lost them and therefore had been without them for 20 years. He makes insinuations that basically lean toward him having possibly acquired the FGT and used it resulting in the lose of his powers. How he got them back is unknown, for all we know the use of the FGT effect that cancels out the shinigami powers is temporary. But your way off on why others dont recognize him. If you notice no one has ever encountered Isshin besides Rukia who hasn't be a Shinigami for long (in shinigmai years) and therefore may have not known of him or seen him before. So we dont know who would would know of him or recognizing him if say a older captain met him. --Salubri (Talk)  01:22, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Isshins Past
Wait, I can just about guerantee that the older captains know him because Yorouichi and Urahara know him well enough to be able to fight together with him in a just about perfect formation. If they know him, then the older captians would know Isshin. 1st of all he is too strong to not be significantly known durring his time. Another speculation is that the 4 captains that have been around for 300+ years are older than yoroichi and kiseke. He also knows the Vizards when talking to Urahara after Isshin kills grand fisher.Jaybirt5 (talk) 14:46, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

I met active Gotei 13 members, Yoruichi has not shown any knowledge either way and Urahara obviously knows him though how is still in question. You cant make assumptions like that based on those two both Yoruichi and Urahara have been in the human world for 100 years they could have easily met him there. So saying they know then means other captains do is false cause you cant know that until its proven that they do. He knows of the Vizard but doesn't seem to know them personally and neither do they by Shinji not recognizing his reiatsu. Secondly you may not be aware of the type of information gathering we do on the site so you obviously dont know we know Yamamoto, Unohana, Ukitake and Shunsui are older then everyone else in general. Read the material please. --Salubri (Talk)  15:20, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

1st of all, this should be a new topic, this is not the "who does isshin know" topic. 2nd i agree with you, i was just to lazy to write the named captains out you siad were older than anyone else. I just speculate that if he has that much power, it is hard to ignore even if isshin never went to the soul society. the Gotie 13 have sensors in place to be able to sense any spiritual pressure. if Isshin released any spiritual pressure, then the SS would know. lastly he knows to much about captains to not know only the vizards and urahara group. He also knows about Aizen and Aizen knows about Isshin. There is to much common knoledge to not be known to at least the older captains. Jaybirt5 (talk) 16:24, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Having presumed knowledge and having factual knowledge is different things. We know he knows of the Vizard we know he knows Urahara and possibly Yoruichi. He knows of fighting and the Gotei 13. He is a Shinigami so that most of the information would be common knowledge to him. How or why he knows these things are still unknown. Secondly Soul Society sensors are set to specifically detect Hollow and Arrancar. If they could easily find Shinigami, Rukia wouldn't have been hidden from them for 2 months. Also the Vizards considerable spiritual power would also have been detected but hadnt been in 100 years. Also with his level of spiritual power he would have to know how to suppress it so it doesnt overwhelm others around him. Also Isshin knows as much about Aizen's plans as Soul Society and there is no proof that Aizen knows of Isshin, he knows that he is Ichigo's father but thats something easily known through observation, they arent shown to personally know each other. As I said before whether Isshin is known or not by the other captains is yet unknown they havent been face to face. --Salubri (Talk)  17:22, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Things don't add up to me. We all agree he was a shinigami at some point, but they're all technically dead right? So did Isshin die, go to the Soul Society, become a shinigami, then somehow come back to Earth? Or was Isshin just a substitute like Ichigo. If Isshin did die, how does someone come back at all, and have children? Staxeon 0456, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

well, assuming he isn't a substitute it mostly the same deal as urahara, he came to the living world at some point and his "human body" is probably a gigai. as for having children i don't know.Soul reaper magnum (talk) 07:05, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

what the new arks or ark might be about
i think the new ark after Deicide might show Isshin past

there no base infomation but i am discussing it it it would be a good and or the chance of it happening. It would a great idea since no really has any definte idea what his past is exactly in general, why he have lost his powers, or his former positon in soul society. Wolfsoul1000 (talk) 00:18, September 23, 2010 (UTC)