Forum:Barragan vs. Hachi

This is a interesting fight i think. I previously predicted this match up in a previous post and im happy it came about. But I amt thrown by Barragan's comment. He states to Hachi that did he think that age couldn't affect kido. This statement doesn't make sense on a couple things. 1. what does barragan know about kido or its nature that he can make the statement considering that espada dont seem to know much about the shinigami besides the most basic and kido is a pretty hard thing to even learn let alone counter effectively except with kido. 2. Time doesn't seem to affect kido a whole lot, alot of binding spells have been used but its possible he is right as well, we are not even certain the level of spell hachi uses or what it was supposed to do. Regardless of the him breaking through it i still think kido is his weakness but probably more destructive kido then anything. Also note when hachi did the spell he had no mask on which might have increased its power and also we know he is capable of far more then this from time/space powers like orihime's but more developed so we will have to wait but im eager to see what happens.Salubri 07:19, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I Believe This Will Be One Of The More Interesting Fights. At This Point Hachi Is The Last Hope For This Fight. I Believe Barragan Made His Statement About Kido Because: He Thinks/Knows Everything Is Weak Against Time/Age. Surley Kido Does Not Last Forever,So It Can Be Aged,Right? I Believe Only Extremely Destructive Kido Can Even Injure Him. I'm Talking Level 90 And Up. If He Puts His Mask It Would Increase His Chances. I Can't Wait To See What Happens Next. But, It Does Make Me Wonder: If Barragan Is The Official #2 Espada, And He Has This Kind Of Power, What Does Stark Have Up His Sleeve? His Power To Age Stuff, Would In Be In Theory Better Than Starrks Powers(The Ones He's Shown At This Point). I Want To See The Outcome Of This Battle, But I'm More Interested In Seeing Starrks Battle With Rose And Love. Pookl-sama 08:12, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Im in agreement with both you guys. It is a little weird that he made that statement, but i do think its because he is arrogant and over confident in his own power. He truly believes that time is unbeatable, more to do with seeing himself as a god-king. Hachi is the only one that can take him with kido. Soifon was a bad choice to fight him, even her horrible useless bankai didn't work against him. We will see what happens im so excited.Torta Vos 15:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Hachi might prevail by catching Barragan off guard. with a kido like attack, but barragan might say "Impossible, kido can't touch me" and Hachi rebuts with "Your mistaken. I havent used kido in over a hundred years. Its just a thought.Heruga59 08:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Who knows. The revelation about time affecting kido (was that Respira he used?) could serve as an excuse to bring Tessai, who we know is capable of time manipulation, into the fight. Of course Hachigen could very well have learnt it by now too.

Barragan did say his aspect of death is the most powerful. While I can only guess at what this could mean for Starrk's powers, I do believe that could be one area where Barragan does have an advantage over Starrk. Kido would seem the way to go, but just outright power on it's own won't cut it I don't think. Any attack of the power we're talking about would act as a dead giveaway as to your position, so a suprise attack is not going to work. My only guess is that Barragan does have his limits, and overusing his time abilities will eventually weaken his TD field, thus allowing attacks to hit him. TomServo101 12:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that Hacchi has the upper hand here really, as we've seen that his powers are similar to those of Inoue, and can alter the course of time. When he fixes her hair pin it is in the same way she restores grim's arm, effectively undo'ing what happened by reversing time in that space. So Barragans ability to age things will be counter-acted by Hacchi's ability to reverse time. Although to make a real fight out of it i'm sure there will be twists and turns until Hacchi reveals his final move and Barragan likewise :)

Yes, I think that the last person had a point! Both Hachi and Orihime can manipulate time, and I think that Hachi's abilities can... and WILL trump Barragan's time dilation field.

Yes the the time situation will play heavily in this battle. Barragan has the Time Dilation and Respira and ages things to deterioration level. Hachi has kido spells that allow time manipulation similar to Orihime though his are more skilled. It seems that like the previous battles amongst the Espada his arrogance and his overconfidence in his own abilities will lead to his downfall. He assumes Hachi deals in average kido he will be surprised he dismisses his abilities and who and what he is. It would be that if anyone dies out of the Espada Barragan will likely be the first.Innocent Anna 03:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I think when fight would last long enough Barragain would lose his Time Dilation Field. Because as every abilities this too using his energy. And probably almost everyone thinked about one think: How much it use energy for that? Because effect is so... powerful so usage of energy to maintain it should be also cosiderable high. Even when he use not so much when just surrounded with it in time when field deteriorate some atack or think that make contact with it energy consumed by it probably rise. So taking in account that Barragain don't have any source to regain fast enough energy field after few or more attack could just run out of energy supply and vanish leaving him with Respira (which use less energy than TD field)--Kazuki Senzo Miyakami 10:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I doubt Barragan will lose so easily. Though he is extremely arrogant and confident (Heh heh heh Arrogante), he is still the Espada Segunda, a time elemental,and nothing to sneeze at. His power works without him doing anything while in his released state. Respira is just an ability that lets him extend this power. Plus, age effecting kido is not that much of a surprise. Nothing can last forever, even energy blasts and barriers have time limits. His power accelerates how long they last and poof1 They are done. Yes, Hachi can use kido that possible reverse time, but that's not going to be enough if Barragan can accelerate faster than he can reverse.--Moe1216 15:10, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes and Ulquiorra was the 4th Espada he was so talked up in power and everything and he is very much dead so being the 2nd Espada and having Time dilation wont save him. It might not be easy but i seriously doubt that believing his powers greatness will do much, lets look at what we know of from the Arrancar as stated its their arrogance and overconfidence in their unique abilities thats their biggest weakness. Barragan is probably the worst so far to date with this. Kido is obviously central to his downfall, how it will happen is remains to be seen, but as stated the power consumption must be high and he is in the real world this isnt even hueco mundo so his death is more insured then the other Espada in that way. As someone else stated i know longer believe in the almighty arrancar/espada and why they can be tough they can be beat and while soifon wasnt the best match hachi is and i wont discount his power as barragan is inclined to do. His arrogance and overconfidence saw the death of each one of his faccion and it will lead to his own too thats not a question. Also considering Hachi is there he can bring back soifon's arm.Salubri 15:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

You win for now Salubri. I don't feel like arguing so I am goin to concede. Peace.--Moe1216 16:06, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

After reading the posts I dont think its a argument taking place its obvious the situations are taking place in the storyline, but what ive noticed most is if some realism is placed into the conversation the first thing that the big speculator or pro antagonists want to do is down play the protagonists or jump on anyone that doesn't agree with their interpretations of the great power they feel the antagonists wield, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and there really doesnt need to be a war between realists fans and other fans. Its like you cant have a difference of opinion without making it personal because someone doesn't agree with your opinion directly calling out the person and all whats that about. Having said that its more then obvious to myself that the out come to this fight is to be determined but in what the end result will be from the information we know you can sort of develop a understanding of the sitution. Barragan in truth is probably the most arrogant and overconfident of all the Espada so far, his powers are probably the most powerful of the Espada we have seen so far. But by no means is he unstopable its a obvious match up situations these fights end up in. What really through it off was that Soifon was not a good match for Barragan that became really clear early on. Now he has someone to fight that can actually take him, not only is Hachi a Vizard but he is a Kido Master and knows before going in what Barragan is capable of. Now this Time Dilation/Respira thing is obviously powerful but I do think it must cost a whole lot of power especially outside of Hueco Mundo, also if he is hit fast it might be his downfall. Hachi is of an advantage as his powers have become time/space as Orihime's and his is more skilled. Having said that even Aizen comments on how her powers reject god by reversing time and the other espada are left stunned at the ability, which is seemingly is impossible. So what do we end up with, Time Acceleration vs. Time Reversal. How interesting once the two meet they are locked in a neutral stalemate but least we forget Hachi also has Soifon backing him up so it comes down to her interaction if any and if he is really gonna put hollow power into his spells, also he has yet to use destructive spells. And as mentioned previously it would be a good idea to use his abilities to get Soifon's arm back, eventually.YesMonarch 16:36, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, yeah, I agree, it will be a great battle indeed. And as for Hachi restoring Soifon's arm.. it'd be a real ego basher right there as seing by her denial of ever knowing Hachi and buds. Deimonos 18:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes it would. Plus it is going to be real intersting because both have contol over time and Soifon and Marechiyo are still there to back up Hachigen, but I think Barragan may pull out a few tricks before ultimately falling to the Kido Master, just to add a surprise or two and what not, cause all we have seen are three powers: Respira, Gran Caidas, and his Time Dilation Field.--Moe1216 19:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)