Talk:Zanpakutō/Archive 3

Durability add
Do we have enough information to create a new section on this page concerning the durability of a Zanpakuto. We have the explanation of how reparable a zanpakuto is when broken in its shikai and bankai states, and how a zanpakuto without love breaks easily.Kamikaze839 (talk) 00:33, December 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * No, the information presented in this most recent chapter was not sufficient enough to explain a concept so complicated. Saying something needs love is no better then saying "if you treat your car with love it will run better." We will wait until more informative info comes out, better explaining the issue. There is far to many complex questions that need to be answered about zanpakuto to simply take the most basic statement made in passing as if it explains all we need to know. In short that wasnt an explanation so much as the simple surface response of a deeper answer. Plus we know nothing about reforging or otherwise or how its possible to even create something thats supposed to be a reflection of ones soul and entirely unique to them.--

Yumichika
He's not dead yet, so why is his Bankai listed as Not Achieved?--Xilinoc (talk) 22:13, January 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * Because he isn't gonna achieve it. We have to go with the most likely scenario, he was trying but its all but impossible according to him. The point being the potential and likelihood isnt there as it decreases the farther you get from the captains.--


 * I see. In that case, shouldn't Kenpachi's be listed as Not Achieved as well, for obvious reasons?--Xilinoc (talk) 04:39, January 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * Kenpachi clearly has the level of Reiatsu needed for Bankai, so he has the potential if he ever learns the Zanpakutō's name!! Given he will be training, he obviously has more potential than Yuichika in this regard!!


 * Though we have yet to hear it, Zaraki officially hears his Zanpakutō, so there is high probability that by the end of the arc, he will achieve Bankai. TheKingsRook 16:52, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

To put an end to this, I changed it to Not Yet Achieved. It was a mistake that Yumichika was listed as Not Achieved and not Not Yet Achieved, it was not done intentionally. It is not our place to speculate who will and will not gain Bankai. Aside from that, Kubo stated that if he were to give Bankai to any of the lieutenant level fighters, it would be Yumichika, so he obviously has the potential.--


 * Not to be a nuisance but there are others who are listed as "Not Achieved" like Omaeda and Hisagi!! While I laugh at the thought of Omaeda with Bankai, you just did say it's not our place to say who will or will not achieve it so I assume those are a mistake too??

Mentioning Anime/Manga source

 * A Zanpakutō's shape and abilities are based on their Shinigami's soul. Once a Shinigami learns his/her sword's name, they are able to communicate with one another and grow stronger together. Zanpakutō are born with their Shinigami and they die along with their Shinigami. Shinigami use them in battle as a reflection of their heart. When released, they can display a vibrant power. They are one with the Shinigami, and they share a Shinigami's conviction.

I wonder if it should be mentioned that some information present on the page (such as that quoted above) is only mentioned in the Anime filler arcs or movies and thus may not be canon? Or if they can be sourced from the manga, the attributions should be substituted. This came to mind mainly because of the Zanpakutō Facts topic that seems to have a lot of conflicting points, not the least of which deals with Hyōrinmaru, which obviously could not have been born with or based on Hitsugaya's soul if it is shared between two different persons. --Junky (talk) 19:51, January 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * The above quote comes from manga information. Hyorinmaru was born with Hitsugya's soul. Diamond Dust Rebellion is not canon. Two people cannot share the same Zanpakuto.--
 * Thanks for clarifying that the quoted information was also mentioned in the manga, but my point still remains. It should be mentioned that "facts" like Hyōrinmaru's sharing effect are only presented in the movie. Otherwise, it just seems confusing as it's not that easy to remember what came from the manga and what came from the fillers/movies. The quoted information for example, is attributed to the Zanpakuto Unknown Tales filler arc, so I assumed that it may not be canon. --Junky (talk) 20:15, January 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Its actually quite easy, information from movies are not mentioned in the article, all info from movies/games/non canon novels are only seen in the appearance in other media sections. Also filler info that doesn't contradicte manga material is excepted and if only featured in that format it will commonly state that it only took place in anime. That above quote is a complete explanation of whats been stated in the manga and databooks multiple times, therefore it doesnt contradict information in the manga.--

Game-only Zanpakto
For a long time those zanpakutos were included in this listing. But they vanished some time ago. Why? Even though, this is game only info it shouldn't be discarded because it makes this article incomplete--Nekosama (talk) 11:24, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Nekosama, plus there's Mirokumaru, used by Senna, which has been taken out as well. It's the only other 'Wind' Zanpakutō, besides Tachikaze. These Zanpakutō aren't really any different than the other anime-filler Zanpakutō like Raika or Daichimaru. --YoukoTaichou (talk) 17:10, March 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * In general content found in movies and video games is not considered canon and is only to be featured in the appears in other media sections. In this particular case there is no such section on the page currently. --
 * I think we need one. It is valid information and we had it all listed before. Creating a new section for it would not be difficult and would add to the quality of the article.--


 * The Content has been properly presented.--

Sode no Shirayuki
Sode no Shirayuki has (氷輪丸, "Ice Ring") listed next to it instead of (袖白雪, "Sleeved White Snow").
 * Fixed, thanks.--

Engetsu
In the list, Engetsu's subtype is unclassified, as well as the release command being unknown. With the recent development that the release command is "Burn", the list should be changed to reflect this. Also, since the release is "Burn", and the Shikai appears to be, not exactly on fire, but similar, along with the translation being "*Scathing* Moon", I feel it should be relocated to the Fire-type Zanpakutō list in the Elemental Sud-type section. Of course, this could be pre-emptive speculation, but perhaps in the next few chapters we will see more about this. TheKingsRook 17:05, March 28, 2013 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately I would have to disagree. You maybe jumping the gun on its ability of the zanpakuto as well as its type, when we know virtually nothing about the zanpakuto besides its name, release command and its ability to use getsuga tensho. While the next few chapters will be possible to make a determination as you stated anything else would be speculative on are part. The information will be placed accordingly, currently the release command "burn" is in the translation corner to determine the correctness of the fan scan. --


 * Plus, a release command isn't necessarily what the Zanpakuto's type is. For example, Amagai's, Love's, and Momo's are fire types, but their commands are, "Sever", "Crush Down" and "Snap", which implies a melee type. -- Qazqaz 555  20:21, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Arrancars
Why doesn't this article have a list of the Arrancars' zanpakuto? Will-O-Wisp (talk)


 * Arrancar's dont have true Zanpakuto they are just called Zanpakuto thus the content on this page does not apply to them, the content for the arrancar is found on Resurrección page which this page links to.--

Timelines of Jinzen and Ichigo's zanpakuto in Jinzen state.
I wanted to add these informations regarding Ichigo's Jinzen method.

First information: Mostly Jinzen is done when a Zanpakuto is sealed, and even that sealed state is dangerous if you don't have a proper conversation with your zanpakuto. Ichigo's Jinzen, however, posed greater risks, as he has a hollow inside of him, and he has done Jinzen in bankai.

Second information: Bankai is the most dangerous state that a Jinzen should be performed, as highlighted by the author's plot in the story. Added to the danger level is a hollow residing in the same place as a zanpakuto does, and merging with said zanpakuto in a bankai state.--Jc778778 (talk) 13:31, April 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think there is alot of presumption in these points your making. Ichigo is not and cannot be the determination of whether this form of communication with ones zanpakuto is harmful. Your taking a situational point and making it out to be a general fact. In actuality the only thing proven is that Ichigo had an issue while using Jinzen because he had to combat with his zanpakuto spirit, in which the harm he was inflicted was real. That doesnt make the technique dangerous any more then any other technique used in the series if not used properly. There is no evidence to suggest that what ichigo was doing was the normal course of Jinzen and even if fighting with ones zanpakuto spirit was to cause real wounds it would be a reality of using the technique. We cannot assume that "when a Zanpakuto is sealed, and even that sealed state is dangerous if you don't have a proper conversation with your zanpakuto" or "Ichigo's Jinzen, however, posed greater risks, as he has a hollow inside of him, and he has done Jinzen in bankai". This is extremely speculative "Bankai is the most dangerous state that a Jinzen should be performed, as highlighted by the author's plot in the story. Added to the danger level is a hollow residing in the same place as a zanpakuto does, and merging with said zanpakuto in a bankai state."--

Wrong kanji for Engetsu
This article says it's 弦月, but the manga and elsewhere on the site says it's 剡月. Someone with editing permissions should change the former to the latter. Anoanoano333 (talk) 14:27, April 23, 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the heads-up. I went ahead and fixed the template. Mohrpheus   (Talk)  14:40, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Shuhei's Bankai
As of Chapter 538, Kensei tells Shuhei, "Show me your Bankai," which means he probably already achieved it so it should probably be said that Kazeshini's Bankai is Not Yet Revealed instead of Not Achieved. --AmazingSuperiority (talk) 18:38, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * What ifs and maybes do not constitute fact. What you view as some sort of authentication of him having a bankai can easily and far more logically be seen as just an attempt to force bankai out of someone of a significant skill level because attaining one would be easier then say someone who is not of that level. So until such time as he has shown one the general rule we follow is to only associate "Not Yet Revealed" with captains and former captains only. Therefore until such time as he is shown to have one his status will not be changed.--
 * Not to mention how in the same chapter, Hisagi reacted with confusion and said Kensei can't just force someone to attain Bankai like that. No indication of him saying "oh, you finally figured it out" or anything.--Xilinoc (talk) 18:55, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought that to achieve Bankai a Shinigami had to train with their manifested zanpakuto spirit? Wouldn't it be impossible to force a Shinigami to attain Bankai in a fight with another Shinigami? AmazingSuperiority (talk) 23:17, May 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * We don't really know, after all, even Byakuya was surprised that Ichigo attained it so swiftly!! Perhaps this battle will train Hisagi into manifesting the spirit since we know that has helped Zaraki, constantly battling, into a connection with his own Zanpakutō!! If he had Bankai he'd use it, we know Mashiro doesn't hit easy!! Anything else is speculation at this point, if he achieves bankai it will change!! Discussion Closed!!

Zangetsu's Release command
Zangetsu actually has a release command. It was said by Zangetsu himself when Ichigo achieved shikai and by Muramasa when he "freed" Zangetsu from Ichigo's body. The command is: "Run and you will age, hesitate and you will die. Your name is Zangetsu" Icemanap (talk) 12:16, June 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * There are few things wrong with this line of thought. First the arc in which muramasa appears is not canon. Secondly it acts contrary to established information which currently has proven the "Zangetsu" we know is not a zanpakuto spirit and was intentionally working against ichigo even utilizing his actual shinigami powers. Third for all purposes it seems to be encouragement to get Ichigo to stand against fear, its also been established that release commands are either verbs or small haiku. Fourth Ichigo has a constant-release Zanpakuto so there is no reason for it to have a release command. Fifth it would be pointless as a release command as Ichigo himself has never said any of that which would be the requirement.--

Senbonzakura and Haineko types?
Why are the types of Senbonzakura and Haineko listed as Unclassified Types and not Projectile-based Types?

Description of the Projectile-based category: "When released separate into many air based blades that the owner can control freely."

For Senbonzakura it's obvious that the blade separates into lots of petal-like blades, and Byakuya can control them either with his mind or with his hands. Following the category description, Senbonzakura classifies as a Projectile-based Zanpakutou. Is it labelled Unclassified because of Senbonzakura Kageyoshi, where Byakuya can condense the petals back into the shape of a sword? He can still control the swords in Senkei like he does with the petals, although he chooses to use them for melee more often than not. As for Shūkei Hakuteiken, I can't really contradict that this is clearly a melee ability (although it does only appear during a filler arc, I don't know the policy on information from filler arcs).

Haineko turns into an ash-like powder, which in Rangiku's article is described as a collection of blades, not unlike those of Senbonzakura. Also similar to Senbonzakura is the way they are controlled. Since Rangiku's Bankai has not yet been revealed, I see no reason why Haineko shouldn't be classified as a Projectile-based Zanpakutou.

Sorry for the rambling, Dekanai (talk) 02:04, July 4, 2013 (UTC)
 * 1. Shūkei: Hakuteiken was used during Byakuya's last fight against Ichigo, and 2. the air-based projectile thing comes from Jirōbō Ikkanzaka's Zanpakutō, which he defined it as. It's not as simple as, say, fire-based Zanpakutō because those are obvious in their classification. Those listed in the Unclassified Types category are there because either we don't have a category for them, or it's never been stated in the series what they are. Also, 3. the Shikai of Haineko is a bunch of ash which can cut, not a bunch of tiny blades.--Xilinoc (talk) 02:37, July 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * 2. I personally believe both Zanpakutõ should be listed as Wind Type, mostly because of the symbolism involved; with ash and flower petals naturally being carried by the wind. It would also explain how they're able to control all the billion little fragments; they're not, they manipulate the wind, which in turn carry the fragments. Stefan (Shikai - &#34;Rust &#38; Shatter&#34;) (talk) 18:55, July 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually Stefan Haineko is controlled via the handle and her mental commands. Senbonzakura is also controlled by the handle in shikai and mentally or by hand in bankai. So why i understand the wind symbolism its gotta be far more literal. Problem here is why the projectile type would make sense we just dont know.--

Needs correction
The Shikai section has a grammar error: "aforvery" should be "for every" Miraibuu (talk) 17:32, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
 * Corrected!!

Adding Wielder
In the Zanpakuto table, should we add a column to note who wields each Zanpakuto?

That was already on there previously and was removed cause the point was to showcase that zanpakuto, therefore their is simply a link to the wielder via that zanpakuto name now.--

Kinshara's Bankai
Should Kinshara be classified as an Illusion-type zanpakuto given what we know about its Bankai abilities? I feel like that would be more fitting than just calling it "Kido-based." Avolling (talk) 20:11, December 12, 2013 (UTC)
 * In the Mangastream translation, Rose specifically refers to its abilities as illusions, so we might just have to wait and see until Cnet's translation comes out. Mohrpheus   (Talk)  21:13, December 12, 2013 (UTC)


 * He specifically states the illusions are a result of Music which is a motif of his personality, Zanpakuto in general, shikai and thus his bankai. Considering that a bankai doesnt have a abilities separate from its shikai. For all purposes that makes his zanpakuto a Music-Type which does best to fit under Kido-type as a general term. Also on top of that we dont really make the determination of type based on the bankai but in fact the shikai.--
 * Except for the case of Gonryōmaru, but that's different because we never (canonically) saw its abilities used in Shikai, only in Bankai. Regardless, I think I'll close this discussion because it seems fairly established that Kinshara, with both its Shikai and Bankai, isn't straight-up illusion-based.--Xilinoc (talk) 03:23, December 13, 2013 (UTC)

Rukia and chapter 569
Just a heads up; Zanpakuoto table is locked and needs updating for her Bankai TomServo101  (Talk)  20:23, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
 * Added, thanks for the reminder.

Tatsufusa, Yachiru and the unclassified
1: Tatsufusa on the zanpukoto page (unclassified selection) his zanpukuto is listed has Hōzan (崩山, Avalanche) with a reference to the book of souls. Yet on his profile page it is listed has Hōzan (崩山, Fallen-Mount). http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/H%C5%8Dzan#Zanpakut.C5.8D

Now for Yachiru i do not see hers here anywhere. Is this a not yet done or waiting until more info comes out for the correct selection?

Minor if you notice on the unclassified selection the header is white or sliver and fades to black. The text is also black meaning you can not see all the text unless you highlight it. Can something be done either changing the text color or the header? --Darkhunter-X (talk) 18:05, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

Constant Release types
Does Zaraki's Nozarashi still count as a constant release type? Since he achieves its true form via the command "Drink", which transforms the chipped blade into a gigantic axe. Him saying that it is always released when Ichigo first asked was seemingly incorrect. As far as I see, Ichigo is the only one who can be counted as a constant release. Yatanogarasu (talk) 06:01, June 20, 2014 (UTC)


 * Anyone making this statement goes with what the manga stated was incorrect or he was lying. Besides the point there is no reason to lie and then the other point that if the manga is incorrect then i guess the story is in itself. This is a general lack of following the information. Having pointed that out a constant release is a sub-type of a zanpakuto related to its release state. Therefore its point being that due to the large amount of spiritual pressure and the lack of the wielder to control that power causes the zanpakuto to be in a state of constant release. Having a release command and differing form doesnt change the fact the sword is in the same form it was always in constant release. The difference being that such a thing is no different then Ichigo's zangetsu or Yumichika's zanapkuto and its 'false' and 'true' forms. Saying its incorrect is saying Kubo is incorrect. This conversation is closed there will be no change in regards to this.--

Zanpakutō Forms Kirinji's
I think i already know the answer to the question. Need more info. But i will ask anyway.

Should Kirinji's zanpakato be added to the sealed section > disguised as other objects part? Has his appears to be something similar to a rowboat paddle? His page says attached but the manga has no close ups of it well one but it is blocked by a speech bubble.

--Darkhunter-X (talk) 04:54, July 17, 2014 (UTC)


 * It's true that Kinpika is unique in shape among sealed Zanpakutō, but it's not quite disguised, at least not in the same way Urahara and Yamamoto disguise their swords. With its sheath on, Kinpika resembles a rowboat paddle, but when the sheath comes off it's a blade on a stick, like Hōzukimaru; however, Urahara and Yamamoto intentionally disguise Benihime and Ryūjin Jakka as canes, an object completely different from the katana form that their swords normally take. It might be worth noting somewhere on the page that Zanpakutō aren't limited to standard sword forms, but Kinpika isn't disguised like some other swords are. Hope that helps.--Xilinoc (talk) 06:01, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

Ok i guess this can be closed.

--Darkhunter-X (talk) 06:53, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

Zapakuto are like 'White'. Made from many 'haku'
The Viz Media Translation and Mangastream translation make it very clear that Zanpakuto are made in a similar way to White the hollow. Asauchi are forged with the souls of many soul reapers, presumably the haku component and the kon is reincarnated. Worth mentioning this, methinks.

http://imgur.com/qKmqC16

Chiligrinder (talk) 09:14, October 17, 2014 (UTC)


 * Creation Addressed.--

Suzumebachi a Kidō type?
To say Suzumebachi is a poison-type (like Ashisogi Jizō) is wrong, as it is only confirmed in the anime. However, shouldn't it be confirmed as (at least) a normal Kidō-type? So I suggest we move Suzumebachi from "Unclassified Types" to "Kidō Types". Yatanogarasu (talk) 00:18, June 19, 2015 (UTC)
 * Like Wabisuke and Ichimonji, it creates a special effect when it strike the targets (one strike creates a mark, second strike on the same spot kills).
 * Unlike Zangetsu and Nozarashi, it does not use brute force or razor sharpness to kill; rather, it relies on a circumstance-based ability, the deep wound from the stab is only secondary.
 * Jakuhō Raikōben creates a one-use effect that is Kidō-based (a giant explosion that no melee does, discounting Getsuga Tenshō or Zaga Teppō), similar to how Hakka no Togame flash-freezes the area in absolute zero upon usage.
 * Bump. Yatanogarasu (talk) 20:18, June 20, 2015 (UTC)
 * Bump again. Yatanogarasu (talk) 02:22, June 23, 2015 (UTC)

Its fully permissible by the policies here to use anime based content if it doesnt contradict the manga, this situation it does not. Secondly being ultimately a kido-type is true of anything not solely and predominately melee. Anything being elemental or having an effect is further specified under those specific headings. Suzumebachi was originally poison-type but was moved to unclassified because of the lack of information to classify it. Outside of the anime explanation we dont know the mechanics behind its function. "Death in two steps" is still very much a melee attack without knowing the underlining reasoning for its capability its still a melee attack with an unknown process. Jakuhō Raikōben is further complicated the issue by being a ranged attack but once again we dont know the mechanics behind it or how it relates back to the shikai besides the greater destructive potential it has. Once again its still a physical object having to hit its target. To say its based on kido would be to say modern missiles are based on the same principle. The points you made still dont justify the move based on the fact they are speculative at best, we just dont know.--


 * In full agreement with Sal on this matter. Also there's no need to make multiple "Bumps" to talk page as we are usually discussing it as a team on Skype. Doing that is not something we do here and its Edit Fluffing. People have lives and bumping something within a day is impatience there's no need.