Talk:Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck

Well actually Nel's attack "Lanzador Verde" in spanish means "green thrower" but is probably a misstranslation of spanish to japanese, for the name to actually mean "green lancer" the spanish would be "Lanza Verde"
 * Actually no lanza means Lance or spear thus "Lanza Verde" would mean Green Lance not Lancer also Lanzado could also be translated as spearman thus the name could also be green spearman WhiteStrike 23:21, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Move?
Not that I agree or disagree, but shouldn't we have discussed this first, or does nobody mind? Arrancar109 17:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't mind. Dekoshu talk contrib 17:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm SO SORRY!!!
i should have said something first before i did it. i'm really sorry. next time i will ask before i move a page. but i thought in order to move something you need approval. i'm so stupid. from your dumb pal--Kisukeiscool100396 20:47, 17 March 2009 (UTC) It's all right. Dekoshu talk contrib 20:53, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Name Change
Apparently on a official Japanese card her name has 3 L's in it. so the question is should her profile be changed to reflect that? Along with that is the translation correct or is the card even admissible as an actual source? Your thoughts?Salubri 14:49, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I don't like the spelling with 3 L's, because it would require changing many articles, and that takes a lot of time. But the card game could be just as liable a source as the video games, and we used "Jeagerjaques" and "Schiffer" for a long time, until volume 38 was released. I guess it somewhat depends on what some of the other contributors think. Arrancar109 16:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Im in agreement about the change, it seems kinda unnecessary, all that change for one more L. I get the reliable source thing but really a card game and video game are like secondary and for the most part non-canon. we only recently changed grimmjow and ulquiorra and like you stated it was behind the fact that kibo actually wrote them that way and that was from notes attached to the manga. So all in all I say no. Salubri 17:56, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I just want the spamming to stop over such a pointless issue. Vinak963 03:39, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Ha-ha! I agree. It isn't nesessary until Kubo says something himself. HuecoMuffin 15:44, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

so would the spelling be "Nelliel Tu Oderschvank" or "Neliell Tu Oderschvank"--Kisukeiscool100396 18:35, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I have been runing into merchandice for her that use the spelling Nelliel for her name and I think it should be changed as before the cover page which showed us Halibel as Harribel i had already seen one of the cards in the card name which ahd her name as Harribel. Also if we look at all the Espada it would make sense for her name o be Nelliel as all of them have at least one double letter.

Starrk, Harribel, Barragan, Ulquiorra, Szayel Aporro = RR; Nnoitra, Gantenbainne = NN; Grimmjow, Zonmmari, Yammy = MM; Luppi = LL; Cirucci = CC; Aaroniero Arruruerie=AA & RR; Dordonii and Alessandro Del Socacchio=II, SS & CC WhiteStrike 14:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Cards are not canon. Moving it because of a card is a horrible idea. Drunk Samurai 04:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

It looks like the change already happened; As long as its canonical the move sounds fine.Renji Abarai 05:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

The move was not canonical because they went off a card. Drunk Samurai 05:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Reason for Move
The reason for the move from Neliel to Nelliel is based on the card game. This reason was taken because there is no offcial proff that her name is spelled with only one l l. Also in the card game prior to his name being revealed there was a card based on Starrk wich revelaed his named as such and the same thing for Harribel's card. There is also no evidence of her last name sepelling as Oderschvank when most merchandise use Odelschwanck however since this spelling is not found in any Official source it will remain the way it is until a more valuable source is found. WhiteStrike 14:25, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I've only realized after reading this entry that it may be Odelschwanck. Since it sounds German, 'w' is pronounced as 'v' and 'v' is pronounced as 'f'. For example, the famous Volkswagen. Most people will read it as "volkswagen" when in reality, it really is read as "folksvagen".--Agate genbu 14:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what a card says because they are not canon. You need to wait for the manga regardless of what other cards say. I mean by that logic then Jyabura from One Piece would be known as Jabra because of a screw up by Shonen Jump. Drunk Samurai 18:18, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok but do you have material that shows her name as Neliel because if you dont then all we can do is use the most offical name we got in this case it wiil be the one from the card.WhiteStrike 23:20, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Cards are not officially canon. The only officially canon material are the manga and the databooks. Drunk Samurai 17:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I made a "poll" (below this topic) regarding the name change so that we don't have to waste time and argue about which source is right and which isn't.

Broken mask fragments-Only 5?
What about Dordonni the privaron espada? Ichigo broke his mask in half...

Neliel or Nelliel
Apparently, on an official Japanese card, her name has changed to Nelliel. Note that it is the same brand of cards that used "Schiffer" and "Jeagerjaques", until volume 38 was released. And I don't remember there being two Ls when her cover page was released. This confused a great deal of editors (like me), so I decided to create a poll which gives others the liberty to vote on whichever name you prefer, Neliel or Nelliel.

Vote "Single L" if you want Neliel, or "Double Ls" if you prefer Nelliel. I vote for "Single L". Krone8

I go for two Ls. I have stated my opinion about that on the espada talk page. Go see it if you want. --Agate genbu 15:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Single l. Cards are not canon. Drunk Samurai 03:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Sure, I'll vote. It really makes no difference to me, because I will continue calling her Neliel no matter what. My reason is simply because I am used to it, and Dattebayo subs it that way. Also, I don't find a card to be canon. HuecoMuffin 20:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Comment here too if you want to vote. Drunk Samurai 00:46, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm for the single L, most of the fans I know write it her name with one L, and no one would dare consider a card canon...most of them are printed/designed by people who don't even watch the show they're making the merchandise for.

Profile Image
Someone seems to be changing Nel's profile image to her adult form. At this point, should we go ahead and do so since it is her original appearance, or should we leave it as her kid form, since she is still in her child state? Arrancar109 02:15, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

while she does appear more often in ehr kid form, her adult form is her REAL form and is more identifyable as such is more important, the kid form doesnt express the TRUE Nel, as she has no memory of her self in it.--RexGodwin 02:20, 13 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think we should leave her picture as Nel instead of Nelliel since this is who she is now. Nelliel while her true form is more of a powerup of sorts for her now. she is Nel now, and her child form is more identifiable, since she has been seen in it longer. WhiteStrike 06:48, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Trivia - speculation
The trivia section contains the following: "both Nelliel and Tia Harribel were the only female Espada in their generation"

This is true for Harribel. But we do not know the identity of the other Espada from Nelliel's generation (bar Nnoitra and AA). That leaves 7 Espada, whose genders are unknown. On top of that, we know that Ciriucci Thunderwitch was an Espada in the past (though not when). I think it is wrong to say that Nelliel was the only female Espada at the time as we simply do not know that. Thus, I think it should be removed as it is (unfounded) speculation, though the remainder of that point can stay. --Yyp 19:43, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

As nobody objected, I have changed the trivia as stated above. Perhaps something could be added about how they both have weapons after releasing, or both have long hair if anybody feels that the statement needs to be padded out further. I would also like to draw attention to this:

"Considering each Espada being a reference to a unique aspect of death, Nelliel would also have an aspect unknown to the reader. However, with how much she has in common with the current Tercera, her aspect is believed to have been "sacrifice" as well."

I think that that should be changed/removed as, while I understand the reasoning behind it, it is pure speculation. --Yyp 12:58, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you as it is just speculation, as there is no indication that she had the same aspect, or for that matter, that Espada always had a reference to death. Twocents 17:01, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, it has been a week and nobody has objected to this or proposed an alternative, so I've removed it. --Yyp 12:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Trivia clean-up
Keeping with the recent clean up of the trivia section, I have removed the following:


 * Nelliel is one of six Arrancar (and only Espada) whose mask remnants are broken during battle, the others being Ggio Vega, Findor Carias, Edrad Liones, Dordonii Alessandro Del Socacchio, and Nirgge Parduoc. The drastic change she undergoes as a result of this is apparently due to her enormous power leaking out.


 * Nelliel is the only former Espada who is known to have had Fracción.

If anyone has a good reason for why these should be included on her page, please state it here rather than just adding it back in without explaination. I'm inclined to remove the trivia about her similarities to Harribel too, but I'm leaving that there for now. --Yyp 23:20, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Her last name is Odelschwanck.
We never had an official source of her last name right? Well, her official name was released in a dvd box set released shortly after her fight with Nnoitra some time ago. Now, of course you have the people who use the typical nonsense "Its not canon therefore its not true" excuse. But her last name "Oderschvank" as of right now isn't canon seeing as that's a fan translation of her name, and was never released by Tite Kubo. So as of now "Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck" is her official name. Need proof? Here you go:

http://pics.livejournal.com/nomoreprinces/pic/000dkh05.png Also, here is baby Nel's official name. http://pics.livejournal.com/nomoreprinces/pic/000dhr0r.png But we already had confirmation on her name.

Note: Sorry if I sound mean, but it really irritates me how people deny things that are so blatantly real, regardless if it was in the manga or not. Her last name was never romanized in the manga, so this is the most official spelling we have as of now. Thunderwitch 18:43, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Okay Thunderwitch, i'm guessing all of above is u'ors. Well then take a look at this. . Well, what do u think. Oh, & before u try to say it isn't Canon, it was translated by a professional who goes by M7, whom I think I trust a little more then those fanart pics u have linked above. Her name is Neriell Tu Oderschvank Neriell romanized as Nelliel. Minato88 21:49, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, to be honest, I have been thinking about this lately, but unfortunately I haven't been able to find anything other than eBay crap to support Odelschwanck. And after listening to some game clips, it sounds more like "Odelschwanck" than "Oderschvank" (which got me thinking in the first place). I'll give it a few more hours. If nobody can find a non-translated manga writing that states otherwise, we're going with "Odelschwanck". Arrancar109 22:56, November 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, it's not like I'm bashing the translators or anything, but let's face it. They got Harribel's name wrong (as "Halibel"), and Kubo proved that himself when he put up her manga character page. So, it wouldn't be that hard to believe that Nelliel's last name was guessed wrong too. Arrancar109 23:00, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Minato88, you really need to stop raging. Maybe if you actually read my post, maybe you would've understood what I was saying. No matter how "professional" you think M7 is, he does not work for Tite Kubo. Therefore his name translations aren't accurate proof. The pictures I provided with Nelliel's offical names aren't fan-art. The scans were released within an official Bleach DVD box set. The posters, were drawn by Tite Kubo, the names were romanized by Tite Kubo. Bleach was created by Tite Kubo. Not M7. Understand? Thunderwitch 23:56, November 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah I understand. I have seen those very pictures listed as Fan Art or Posters depending on which on Bleach Website i'm on. So I wasn't sure which was true & I don't believe what someone says here, cause there are alot of crackpots & liars whom try to say things to get their way. For not believing u I apologize. As far as the name goes I have spent a couple of hours looking around different sites & it seems people are all starting to change her name to Odelschvank. So kudos to u. Arrancar109 or whoever, go ahead & change the page to Nelliel Tu Odelschvank as it seems this is her actual name. Minato88 18:13, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't we move the page to Nelliel Tu Odelschwanck now? Almost a month has passed and we haven't resolved the issue.Thunderwitch 23:26, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

I've made a point on the admin talk page, but I haven't seen any reply on it yet (I'll double-check). Once approved, I'll handle the move. Arrancar109 05:05, December 11, 2009 (UTC)

Well since this discussion isn't closed I will comment. A DVD release is not canon and obviously that was not drawn by Kubo Tite. Since the designs are not the same as what he has drawn. It makes zero sense to use a non canon source as a canon. It's the same reason why her first name should not have been changed. See the other discussion for that one. The point stands that anything that is not manga/databook is not canon. Drunk Samurai 18:31, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, this is confusing are they or are they not drawn by Tite Kubo? I would think being bleach promo material with the dvd collection they would be drawn by Kubo.Licourtrix 18:52, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Nel's Cero
Should the speculated color of Nel's Cero be added? Blackwolf99 12/9/09 21:11 EST

Speculation is not to be posted anywhere on the article page, not to mention why is there speculation on the cero color considering she has never been shown firing one of her own creation. While she most likely has the ability its not listed unless its shown. Currently its on the page and should be deleted as it never occurred in the series as the only thing she has done as far as that is the cero doble. Salubri 05:21, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

It is speculation. Salubri is 100% right. It does not go in and this Discussion is closed. Minato 05:37, December 10, 2009 (UTC

Immense Spiritual Power?
Before when I read the article, her spiritual power was written as "Vast", but now it is written as "Immense". If I'm not mistaken, the difference there is whether or not it is controlled. In the description, it says that Renji was unable to distinguish between her's and Ichigo's, who has a Vast amount of spiritual power. Also after that, it says her reiatsu is constantly leaking out, which means it is not "finely controlled", but "wild and untamed". Any thoughts on this? Manj 00:06, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

What it does and how much power it is and what its like or different. Control is what defines the level as you also mention. To date the only uncontrolled spiritual energy is Ichigo and Kenpachi. Previously before her page was overhauled it was erroneous and is currently correct. Also to mention in various instances spiritual energy is determined by amount, feeling, complexity, control and over all feel. We cant forget the ichigo's spiritual energy is not only felt as very powerful but similar to a hollows in respects. In both instances having something similar to Nel or any arrancar would make sense it has nothing to do with control. Nobody gauges that through feeling, they use feeling to gauge power level and the like not whether the owner has specific control. In the description it is meant to speak of the level of her power by giving a contrast to someone else of high level nothing more. Im not sure where the leaking out part comes from which is misleading but that should be checked for accuracy. Salubri (Talk)  00:59, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Appearance and Transformation
Hey guys, don't you all think Nelliel is like Yoruichi? I see and think that they're both same as seen in cases of: durance and defection of their leaders (Yoruichi: Captain | Nelliel: Espada), leaving their affiliations, enabling Aizen foresee their betrayals/defections, transformation to shomething else, such as a cat (Yoruichi) or a little child (Nelliel) and also have the ability to transform back to their old woman forms.--Gran Danku 21:47, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

No, Yoruichi willingly left her old position, Nelliel lost her identity, Yorouichi can transform at will from human to cat and back, Nel has no control over her transformation. Also, many, many characters have large breasts so that is also out. Also, talk pages are not the place to discuss this, this should be moved to a forum post.--God (Pray)  21:56, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

So, where do I have the option to discuss these things if in forum posts and not in talk pages?--Gran Danku 22:07, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

You can discuss these things in forum posts. Talk pages are for discussions about the article and not the character.--God (Pray)  22:20, June 18, 2010 (UTC)