Forum:Sōsuke Aizen (Volume 2)

This thread is a replacement for Forum:Sōsuke Aizen (Thread Closed), which was closed due to its significant length. Feel free to browse the old thread, but do not post in it. You can continue any of the discussions here instead, by adding the heading that the discussion was under in the old thread. -- Yyp (Talk) 17:22, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

How can Aizen be defeated
-- Can Ichigo beat Aizen? No. Not without the help of the Vizards and Shinigami. The most interesting part of the combat won't be the fight against Aizen but what the other characters say, feel, and do. Together they will triumph. Thats not really in question IMO.

Which is a shame because Aizen remains supremely uninteresting in himself. He remains a cardboard cut-out of a villain who says and does things because thats what Big Bads do. We know more about his henchmen then we do of Aizen the leader. When Aizen speaks its only to taunt and verbally skewer his opponents. He speaks of hate and power...but nothing is ever really revealed about the man himself. No flashbacks to reveal why Aizen is such a mench. Aizen is just a shadow on the wall. A very poor choice of ultimate villain by the author of the series.

Heh...Gin would be doing us a favor by putting his blade through Aizen's head and taking up the mantle of Big Bad himself. At least Gin is interesting and shows some sigh of humanity under that mocking grin. Great Cthulhu 21:29, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

I actually think it's a good idea by the writers to not give away too much about Aizen. The characters and readers have the same sense that they really don't know anything about Aizen except that he seems to know everything before hand and is really strong, making his weakness hard to detect. If we knew everything his weaknesses would be obvious. I agree though, personally I'm pretty tired of his arrogance and would like Gin to play more of a role. In the end I'm guessing we'll get a few pieces to Aizen's background, probably from the Captain Commander or Urahara as the story progresses. Ihaveaname 20:51, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

No wonder, Yamamoto didn't stop Aizen in TBTP before he left to Hueco Mundo, I don't believe that Kubo would make Genryusai fight Aizen nor Gin. Anyway they won't be able to kill Aizen in a frontal but rather with a tricky move, say, like a reverse shadow for example...Ace of Spade 11:13, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

I would have been really disappointed if Ichigo, solo, had beaten Aizen through pure strength alone. He's been doing too much of that lately, it just isn't a good plot. Too predictable. Fortunately, the intervention of the Shinigami and Vizards looks as though we might get to see some more Shikais and Bankais - I really hope we get to see Shunsui and Jushiro's Bankais particularly, if Jushiro isn't dead. I still think a better way to end this would be for one of Aizen's subordinates to defeat him though, I'd been hoping for Tosen to do it.

What I think will probably happen, though, is all the Shinigami and Vizards are going to weaken Aizen and then Ichigo will Hollowfy and deal the finishing blow. We haven't seen much of Gin lately though, I suspect he'll probably put in an appearance once everybody seems to have forgotten about him. Snappydog 19:04, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

I think Aizen's character revolves around his ability to see the bigger picture. Throughtout the series you see how gaining power leads to being isolated and its safe to assume Aizen had reached that cap way b4 he was introduced in the series. So lets go back to Aizen seeing the bigger picture, think about it in his pov and how his only purpose as a soul reaper is to defeat hollow, just one constant rotation going around in circles. The only answer he was able to come up with was to break free from that circle and become a God and the whole hollowfication thing. His character seems like a very very lonley one and I'm sure his only real tie/relationship is with his Zanpakuto which I beleive is the reason he's so powerful.

Personally I don't think Ichigo can touch Aizen when it comes to strength and exp. The one thing Ichigo has over Aizen is his unconditinal attitude in protecting people to where those ties become his main source of strength. I can imagine someone jumping in to save Ichigo and dies, Ichigo does something crazy to where his resolve becomes his power which leads to Aizen getting caught offguard because he saw how powerful Ichigo became in such a short time keeping his ties close to him, and then Aizen thanking Ichigo as he delievers the final blow and aplogizeing to his old vice captain as he takes his last breath.

This may be confusing at first to most readers but if you try to think of Aizen's character and how he talks to people it'll all make sense. Very hard to find specfic examples to blur out my point but since its a differnt approach overall I can't expect people to understand.

"I can imagine someone jumping in to save Ichigo and dies, Ichigo does something crazy to where his resolve becomes his power which leads to Aizen getting caught offguard..." I actually kind of like this idea. Especially since Aizen went out of his way in the last chapter to mention how no one that went with Ichigo to Hueco Mundo died, so he doesn't have that to fight for. I could see Gin going overboard and taking someone out sending Ichigo over the edge. But for now I like that it's going to be everyone else vs. Aizen.Ihaveaname 17:07, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

-- "Especially since Aizen went out of his way in the last chapter to mention how no one that went with Ichigo to Hueco Mundo died, so he doesn't have that to fight for." And now you just revealed one more possible evidence to Aizen's super-genius: That he might have already deduced that Ichigo's resolve is his true unique source of power by the time of the Soul Society's closing act, and cleverly set things up so that not one of Ichigo's comrades had any real chance to die during their invasion of Las Noches... unless Soul Society actually goes agianst better judgement and abandons them to their doom, which in turn allows Aizen to put the blame squarely on their shoulders and divert Ichigo's rage from him and towards the "true" guilty party. Goddamn it, how can Aizen be so... so... Canon Marty Stu-ish? And yet he's one of my favourite archvillains, next to Sephiroth (FF7) and Vergil (DMC). MarqFJA 22:45, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Aizen's power is making illusions, so was Muramasa's. Zangetsu allowed Ichigo to counter it by fighting through him and making him keep his eyes cloesd. This is a possible way to beat Aizen, and it being in the anime gives it some credibility, at least. But I'm sure if this was what Tite was planning, he's gonna change it now since the anime already did it.Grimmjow2 21:37, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Aizen is unstoppable, he just parried Hitsugaya's Bankai attack, stop the sword of Komamura's Bankai with bare hand, holding Rose's shikai with his hand and then slash him, use shunpo to evade Ichigo's powered up Getsuga Tensho.Frostymoon 8:09, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

The guy is just too strong to be even imagined..... its unreal. Granted that the other captains have sustained injuries and are not in 100% shape... but still to actually catch anothers zanpaktou bare handed.... he definitely beats even kenpachi for pure spiritual energy.. tats for sure.. As far as for Aizen being defeated goes... i believe that Orihime will play an important hand in it.... Might not come true... but still a gut feeling... :) Kishen1912 12:17, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

That's turning nonsensical in some ways. Aizen stronger than imaginable? similar as when captains talked about Genryuusai, isn't it? Plus if he is as strong as Gin said, why he has to care about the king's key? what is the purpose of the espadas conception? why he cut Harribel down by saying that all the espadas together couldn't match his own power, it took him time to realise that, if he is so smart he should have been realised it since the beginning, no? So strong that he had to use kyoka suigetsu from the beginning, and now he will rely on raw strength, that is nonsense. There are fluctuations in the scenarii from clever to stupid and vise versa. So strong that he is waiting the shinigamis to come to him, I don't get it. He was so impatient to finish them a while ago by cutting Harribel down in the reason that she were to slow, and now he is waiting!? Bleach is getting cheaper recently, bigger panels, slow, long chat, less actions, revails few or less, what else...Ace of Spade 23:06, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

I think that Aizen is just choosing his battles wisely. If you think about he has yet to attack certain captians head on as he did with Rose and Koma. All he did was dodge Toshiro and He actually got hit by Shinji. He also dodged Shunsui as well. I beleive he knows which captains that he is strongern than and that is why he needed the Espada for assistance. That is also why i beleive he gave Tosen a mask. Tealang99 17:10, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I do agree with you that Aizen needed comrades because he knew he couldn't beat all vizards and shinigami by himself alone.Aizen may be at limit of power of shinigami and let's say he is 100% at swordsmanship,kido.hakuda and hoho.He can beat anyone one-on-one presumably.There are few shinigami who are at 90-100% swordsmanship though not at others.Also Yoruichi and Soifon seem (if not faster) as fast as him .Moreover Tessai and Hachi are kido masters.So as long as there are shinigami and vizards who are equal to aizen by their own advantages there is no way aizen can beat all of them without his zampakuto's ability,espada and 2 fellow captains.

You're all forgetting something important, Aizen has and always will be into complicated long, not-seen-untill-explained plots. If you take every action of Aizen alone, they have no meaning, but join them.. and it does BOEM. It's like a chemical reaction: an ingredient with another.. nothing special, add another and it explodes. As for Aizen's power, I doubt that he's already at his limit in the shinigami-form since he failed to use the full power of the lvl 90+ kidou spell on Captain Komamura as he ascended to Las Noches. As for intellect, Aizen is definitely unmatched.. nobody else was as smart or capable to actively use kidou in combat as he does, by defending his blind spots where not even Shunsui can get through. And to "Ace of Spade" he doesn't want to make the King's Key for more power, he wants to create it to enter the Royal Dimension to woop some King's ass there and not be a king.. but a God. Shinza 21:09 February 2, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree becaus Momo has shown herself very capale of using kido in battle just well as Aizen though the kido is not as stronge as Aizen she still does use them very tatical. Also hestill went out and recruited atleast the top 2 espada. There must be meaning to that. If he did not need them he wouldnt have asked them to join. I just think he under estimated the Gotie 13 or over estimated his Espada. Aizen have yet to step up to some of the top captains of the Gotei 13. He was smart enough to trap three of top captains in HC but Captain Unohana made it back. So He still has to deal with her, Shunsui, Yama before we see him think about the Spirit King. Plus I dont disreguard Shinji as well becuase he actually laid his sword on Aizen which no other person in Gotie 13 have ever done. Thats a feat in its self. Tealang99 21:19, February 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * i have a theory regarding Aizen recruiting the espada... it's because he still doesn't know the abilities of the other captains. he used the espada so he can see the captains's abilities (shikai, bankai, other skills, etc) and assess how to defeat them. just my two cents... WinterFox 01:58, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed I forgot about Momo, but that's because of her low power, so actually useless. However Aizen can use them to block strong captains as seen, anyway about him overestimating his espada is probly true, but you know how he likes to toy arround and... he's in no rush. And why does everyone expect so much from Unohana, just because she's one of the oldest captains arround and how others react when she gets upset? Anyway I think that's being overconfident, Aizen clearly surpasses everyone who's battle-active in every way. The latest chapter says it all, it's not Kyouka Suigetsu that makes him feared, it's simply his abilities that surpass everyone at every level. And keep in count, Aizen hasn't even released his zanpaktou nor did he fight serious yet, let alone use hypnosis. This next chapter should be interesting.(hoping it's not gonna jump back to Hueco Mundo). ShinzaWai 20:24, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

This is too good to be true.... Is the last page of chapter 391 reality or is it yet another illusion by the kyoka suigetsu...?? ur comments guys ?? Kishen1912 16:04, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of it being an illusion or not, the battle is not over, imo. Btw, we have a forum dedicated to the discussion of each chapter and its contents in Forum:Manga talks. -- Yyp (Talk) 16:16, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, if Aizen did get taken out like that, im gonna be real disapointed with the whole fight. I mean, he hasnt even shown bankai yet!!!!! On the plus side, Shunsui got a piece of him!(hopefully) But in all honesty, it was either an illusion or that crazy flash step technique that byakuya and youroichi keep using. Captain of squad 0

The last chapter was amazing! Of course the battle isn't over yet, but it was kind of funny how Aizen mentioned commanding the arrancar (except for Wonderweiss, there are none alive on the battlefield) and then getting teamed-up-upon. Seriously, how can this genius not have seen this coming, since he's obviously so outnumbered? Well, actually, Aizen is probably playing them all, but I just don't see him winning. Or maybe he's just surprised the captains are capable of working together sometimes. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) contribs) 23:53, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's not over. Aizen seriously cannot go like that. Then Bleach wouldn't make logical sense (though I really wish he would die, somehow, him dying now won't satisfy me). the next chapter he's probably going to be like "it was all an illusion" or "something like this is only a scratch" or something like that. Afterall, he's supposedly so much more powerful than all of them. Perhaps he was wounded though. I do think that everyone woriking together WILL in the end be what leads to his demise. but not right now. Still, I'm glad that everyone was working togehter like that. It was amazing to see what they could do, especially how Kyouraku attacked Aizen. I wondering if there wouldn't be some twist, and Aizen severely wounds everyone, and then Ichigo snaps and steps into battle at last, or Unohana. I wonder if Unohana did go up against Aizen, what would happen. Anyways, I think we're all waiting to see what will happen. KnowledgeandImagination 01:56, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

After reading the latest chapter, I thought to myself the guys at bleach.wikia would be going cuckoo-bananas over it. This isn't exactly cuckoo-bananas...

I do not think it is an illusion. For us, the readers, Ichigo is on Fake Karakura Town for one reason: to assure us what is happening is not an illusion, as he has not seen Aizen's shikai. Seeing his normal zanpakuto does not place under Aizen's complete hypnosis. So, as I see it, this chapter is the go-head for Aizen to team up with Gin or use his hollow powers, or some amazing plot twist. Laguna 16:59, February 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not that we aren't going "cuckoo-bananas", it's just that the discussion over it is spread across several blog posts and a couple of forum topics. If everything was combined into one thing, it would be huge already. I don't really want to speculate on what might happen next week to allow him to keep fighting (goodness only knows what Kubo will come up with - could be something predictable or something totally out there), so I'll stick to commenting on what he was like in this chapter. That is an awful lot of "WTF expressions" on Aizen's face this week, and they're more serious than the momentary displeasure against Hirako when he first released Sakanade. It's refreshing to see. He effortlessly beat Love & Lisa, but the combination of multiple captains fighting together/supporting each other was the best (most sensible) way to take him down (not that he is defeated yet, that is). But if he survives this without some consequences, then it leaves me wondering just what it will take to finally beat him. -- Yyp (Talk) 17:23, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

I Have to say I enjoyed seeing Aizen get all beat up like that, but one thing has bugged me and that is the proper revealing of suigetsu's influence. I don't think he is using it, but Aizen used the effect infront of ichigo when komamura came. in all the other chapters they just say he can't see his shikai, not he can't see his ritual. I don't think he "saw it" but it bugs me. something about that incident and it could be me, but anyone else think aizen's shikai may have taken effect back in seretei.

But on another note I think Aizen will pull something to help him, possibly even the hogyoku to assit him in healing, or going hollow. Perhaps even his Bankai has some type of healing properties who knows, but I think this battle is coming to a close soon, so I dont know if he has too many tricks left up his sleeve. if he survives it will be a full retreat, and I don't know if it will be back to las noches, there is always hell he can go to to perhaps form up some type of army, but we dont know much about that place... yet Shillagan 18:07, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

I dont know if this is any real proof, but did anyone notice that everytime Aizen used an illusion, the "fake" had a grin on his face, and didnt look as distressed as Aizen did in this chapter? I am not entirely sure what this means, but It may mean that this is in fact the real Aizen, and he may need to bust out something crazy in order to just stay alive!... Any thoughts?? --Captain of squad 0--

Aizen is not dead. You do not kill off the main antagonist of the series before they can go full power (bankai). I don't know what is going to happen in the next chapter. I don't think it will be an illusion beacause Ichigo is there. Maybe Gin will Gin will get involed. Flaminghorse February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Yes he is not dead but cornered.I think he now understands that he wouldn't be strong enough against powerfull captains' conbination.So he'll do something we don't know.Also Gin will be involved of course if not he will piss me offIt will be strange if his boss dies before his eyes and he does nothing but some comments.--Shaggi 12:11, February 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, Gin not doing anything but just watching and grinning like a Cheshire Cat would fit his personality perfectly! ^.^ Seriously thought, it's too early for Aizen to die. But it will be interesting to see how he gets out of this and how he manages to take out the remaining fighters. Tinni   (Talk)  12:53, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you are right.I can't believe in my eyes if Gin shouts "Oh no Aizen-sama! don't die I will protect you no mather what ...".It will be ridiculous if Gin seves him from death though it might be.Shaggi 14:24, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you are right.I can't believe in my eyes if Gin shouts "Oh no Aizen sama don't die I will protect you no matter what blah blah...".It would be ridiculous if Gin saves him from death.--Shaggi 14:15, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Oh I've written it twice SORRY.

Ichimaru seems like Aizen's only friend. I wouldn't be surprised if Ichimaru rescued him. I doubt Aizen will die soon; he hasn't released either his bankai or his resurrection, the latter of which would heal him. (And can he use both?) PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) contribs) 14:45, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

"How can Aizen be defeated".. the answer is simple; Aizen sama cannot be defeated (my take on it). Aizen sama is just that good.. and i count it as 3 vs 1 with Gin sidelining and commentating. I think Kubo should take a pause so that: Kensei can finish off Wonderweiss, Hachigen can heal Mashiro (Hachigen is still in the fight btw), Retsu can heal Hiyori so she doesnt die, Byakuya and Kenpachi can kill Yammy and go to FKT to help out. However the only thing we can do is wait till 2 weeks from now to see what Kubo has made up. Captain Brooks 19:03, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Okay in one fell swoop most of the good guys in FKT are incapacitated. There are a couple of options at this point. 1. Yamamoto will finally step up and, considering his power, could possibly beat Aizen. But because he is susceptible to Kyoka Suigetsu's influence this probably won't happen. 2. Ichigo will dig deep and unlock yet another level of power. My money is kinda on a Resurrección. This too will probably not happen. 3. Hitsugaya (in a rage) will launch an all out attack and go out in a blaze of glory which will probably do some damage to Aizen but will far from kill him, but it may be the sacrifice needed to convince Ichigo to take the fight seriously resulting in option 2. Since this is specualation (which will probably be deleted) it shouldn't be taken seriously though. Andrew2383 12:33, February 12, 2010 (UTC)Andrew2383

I highly doubt that you're speculation will be deleted.. as long as you state it is your speculation then you should be safe.. I do see some sense in your speculations though. Ichigo mastering his resurreccion (if what we saw him fight Ulquiorra with) would be a nice upgrade but it would still fall short. Captain Brooks 12:39, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

I'm new in this wikia and I want to share a though about Ichigo's "resurreccion". We all know he commented Unohana he just had half of his reiatsu and showed his sleeve. If you notice, the "resurreccion" had only that sleeve too, so if he turns into that state again he would be even stronger than when he fought Ulquiorra Elpollodiablo 09:02, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Concerning Ichigo, since Kubo liked dragon ball, plus you add the famous adage "what doesn't kill you, make you stronger", then say that each time Ichigo fights a strong opponent he would become surely far stronger than the last himself (no wonder that his inner hollow becomes stronger than Ichigo himself, loosing only against Ichigo's stronger will). Notice that Ichigo inner hollow didn't showed out like the other times, we only saw Ichigo turned into hollow form only. Returning to the present fight, it remains to fight:
 * Aizen-Gin-Wonderweiss against Yamamoto, Ichigo, Unohana, Hisagi, Ukitake (if not dead), Hachigen and Kensei
 * Yammy against Byakuya, Zaraki, Mayuri, Nemu, Isane, Renji, Rukia and else

If no surprises, Yammy would rather be beaten by the teamed captains. I doubtly think that Aizen would end in this arc, there are too many hidden points, plus (my opinion) nothing hinted that Genryusai, Byakuya, Zaraki or Mayuri were or weren't hypnotized by Aizen's shikai, except Unohana stating that from all the Gotei 13 only Ichigo didn't see Aizen's shikai release, but since when Ichigo belonged to the Gotei 13. We will see in the next chapters.Ace of Spade 12:19, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Possible flaw in Kyouka Suigetsu's "Complete Hypnosis"?
One thing that's been making me suspicious for a while is this: if his "Complete Hypnosis" is so unbreakable, why didn't he just off Unohana and Isane in Central 46 and be done with it? Even if official battle data stats aren't everything, he managed to easily take down Hitsugaya at 560 vs. 500, and Gin had been evenly matched against the other white-haired Captain - and nearly took his head off at one point - in their one and only confrontation (no Bankai use, though), despite a 20 point disadvantage. Unohana is only 540 vs. Aizen's 560, and the only actual advantage that she has on him is 10 points in Physical Endurance, while lagging behind him in both Defense (10 points) and Mobility (20 points); factor in his "Complete Hypnosis", and the ultimate winner should've been easily clear.

In light of the aforementioned facts, I suspect that there's a fundamental yet hard-to-detect flaw in Kyouka Suigetsu's signature, nearly-broken ability... one that Aizen knows that not only someone with Unohana's experience can discover almost immediately if given the chance, but could also be utilized by anyone once they are informed of it, explaining why he opted to escape rather than risk the miniscule possibility that she might survive his initial attack and uncover his shikai's weakness. MarqFJA 22:45, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that there must be some unknown flaw in it or shinji wouldn't have been able to detect the illusion, and while admittedly that was over a century ago it still presents a valid point. another point of interest is that what if aizen doesnt even have a bankai!? I mean if he can control all 5 senses who is to say he didn't just make an illusion to fake his bankai...just a thought.

Yeah that makes little sense.But his master swordsmanship is more than enough to reach Bankai.Shaggi--Shaggi 12:01, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to take this oppertunity to give a general reminder that we do have rules against crack theory. Saying Aizen doesn't have bankai falls under the category of "crack theory". In fact, saying any Shinigami captain past or present not named Zaraki Kenpachi not having bankai falls under the category of crack as it goes against facts repeatedly stated in the manga. So seriously, stop is already. Also, remember to sign your posts using the ~. Tinni  (Talk)  12:53, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

maybe by overpowering aizen's reiatsu (covering yourself with reiatsu much stronger than aizen's) will not trigger kyoka suigetsu's ability. much like what aizen did with soifon and suzumebachi's "death in 2 steps". i mean, it seems like the combats has more often been (if not always) a battle of reiatsu. but, on the other hand, aizen doesn't seem to run out of reiatsu (lol), and as far as the manga states, the only person who may have enough reiatsu for that is .. icihigo?!? just my thoughts.. WinterFox 02:09, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that trying to see the flaw will work, as he could fake it, or aizen could just kill whoever found it before they could tell anyone. Instead, since Ichigo is supposed to be the only one to not be affected by the hypnosis any one that has a bankai that affects an area, and can trap people, like byakuya, should form a sphere or box around ichigo, effectively trapping aizen with him, and then somehow seclude ichigo from the trap, making aizen all alone in his box, until the controller decides to crush him. Cutting off all ways for aizen to evade attack will probably be the best way to kill him, until TK says otherwise.Lazychubb 06:09, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Lazychubb.. the problem is that Byakuya is not in FKT thus that is impossible for now. Also Sosuke whould kill Byakuya before he could trap him... so far it seems that Kyoka Suigetsu is invincible. Captain Brooks 16:30, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Captain Brooks i understand what you are saying with the byakuya comment, im just using his bankai as an example for my theory, i doesn't have to be him it could be Yamamoto, or anyone that could encase aizen in something, what im trying to say is if the real aizen can be cornered then he can be hit and killed. Byakuya was the only person i could think of that could use his bankai to surround someone and be used as a shield, and thats why i used him. As for the kill before trap you have a point so it would have to be a spontaneous trap, encasing aizen immediatly which i dont think there is a known technique for that. But if there is slightly noticable flaws then it can't be invincibleLazychubb 05:35, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

@WinterFox: "maybe by overpowering aizen's reiatsu (covering yourself with reiatsu much stronger than aizen's) will not trigger kyoka suigetsu's ability." Exactly. For all the in-universe hype about the massiveness of Ichigo's reiatsu, this is the only real explanation that I can think up.

It's like genjutsu in Naruto - it works by connecting to the brain's chakra pathways and interfering with their chakra flow, so the "spell" can be broken by gathering up lots of chakra and then suddenly emitting it throughout the body, thus disrupting the invasive connection. Kyouka Suigetsu may work on a similar principle. We'll just have to see. MarqFJA 13:29, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

But for the case you have suggested, there has to be one person who is not at all affected by the effects of the kyoka suigetsu... and an only such person is ichigo who i am sure wont have the common sense to think that up... for the matter of fact even know that...Kishen1912 13:41, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Demise
So Aizen is dead, right?

There is no proof of that. He just appeared to be stabbed through the chest. Tinni  (Talk)  02:04, February 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * LOL... what a casual way of saying that "He just appeared to be stabbed through the chest"... it sounded as if being stabbed in chest is something that commonly happens in Bleach. XD WinterFox 05:41, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

well think about this fact, i dont remember where i saw it, probably here, the maker of the bleach manga and anime said he had not planned the end of the series yet, so honestly the series will probably end when Aizen is killed so I highly doubt they're gonna kill him off that easily that quick, besides isn't Ichigo the only one who should be able to considering hes the only one who hasnt seen is Shikai IchigoFan24 05:53, February 6, 2010 (UTC)IchigoFan24IchigoFan24 05:53, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

It can not be determined what Kubo will do with Aizen in the story he can kill him next chapter or somewhere near the end or at the end. Who knows in either case we do not have a determination where the story is at on that. There are a number of factors for or against this idea. We just have to wait and see. Just for reference the idea of using ichigo was the Gotei 13's plan. It was proven in the previous chapter that it really didn't matter whether Ichigo saw Aizen's shikai release or not. So thats not a viable reason, but stands to reason that if he is to be killed it would have to be by another person regardless of Ichigo being the main protagonist as he doesn't possess the resole to kill his opponents. Salubri (Talk)  06:40, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Of course Aizen isn't dead. After all this build up, nearly hundreds of chapters showing what a beastly god he is, Aizen is gonna died by from a stab to the back? Fat chance, That would be the most anticimatic ending EVER. The captains double teaming Aizen is just the scinario Kubo needed to give Aizen a reason to get serious. I'm guessing either he gonna bringing out a Bankai or Hollow mask.--Black Artist 19:56, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's too early to see either his bankai or hollowification.Just "kudakero kyoka suigetsu" is enough for now.Shaggi 08:28, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Five bucks says Aizen switched himself out with another random character. Just to piss Hitsugaya off, I bet it was either momo or his leutenant. --Captain of squad 0--

Man if this is the way the main antagonist of a series dies.. then the series sux.... tats why i am sure that it is either an illusion or hollowfication time... who knows.. even high speed re-generation... w/o going into hollow form... he did have the hogyoku and all its related research.. and aizen for one is not a fool not to do some research or another before embarking on such an ambitious mission. I guess we will just have to wait and watch. However some fan sites have come up with some remarkable predictions of their own.. Kishen1912 09:32, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Wow!! Captain of squad 0 you were right! Somebody owes ya $5 now hehe =P. Aizen switched out with Hinamori so he is still completely unhurt (except for shinji stabbing him), and it really looks like he is undefeatable. He disposed of Hitsugaya, Soifon, Shinji and even Kyoraku very easily...I just can't believe Ichigo was so retarted as to just stand by, completely oblivious, until they already stabbed hinamori before saying anything. I mean... since Ichigo is the only one not under the influence of the illusion, shouldn't he be everyone's eyes and ears and let everyone else know ASAP where aizen is doing, instead of just standing by? On another note, why aren't people going 100% all out on aizen? I understand Kubo is trying to keep some secrets and not to reveal everything yet, but this doesn't make sense ... like why shinji and kyoraku don't use bankai. Now they are down and we probably won't see them, and i really wanted to =( Also what the hell is Yamamoto doing? Sure he has pride and dignity and thinks that all his underlings should finish the job, but surely now is not the time for that? Why doesn't Yamamoto and/or Unohana step in and do something??? UnknownKido 04:34, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Ummm...I wonder if Kyoraku could of started his color game and thus didn't take as much damage as it looked. And I think the one reason why Yamamoto hasn't fought, look how tricked the last four attackers were, imagine the damage Yamamoto could do to his own comrades because he has seen Aizen's shikia. User:LockeVenture 08:41, February 11, 2010

That my friend is a very valid point... remember Yamamoto's Ryujin Jakka boasts the strongest attacking power among all zanpakutos in the whole soul society.. Kishen1912 15:51,

February 11, 2010 (UTC)

So Genryusai didnt join the skirmish because he feared he would wound his subordinates due to the effects of Ryujin Jakka even though they werew getting beaten?! Interesting theory... so now he will be able to fight without worrying since everyone is practically out. Ichigo should be able to save someone if he just warns them when they are attacking each other. Captain Brooks 20:22, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I don't think he will be able to fight even then. Aizen's shikia controls the 5 senses, so not only does he control what they are seeing but tasting, smelling, feelings, and hearing. So if Aizen doesn't want someone to see Ichigo then they wont. User : LockeVenture 14:22, 11 Feb, 2010

That is a good point LockeVenture! If Aizen can control the 5 senses, then can't he just make it appear that noone can hear or see Ichigo? This means that either Kubo didn't think this through, or Aizen intended to show them all that they had killed (probably killed, if not be the multiple slashes but then by Suzumebachi's Nigeki Kessatsu ability?) Hinamori in order for them to be so shocked as to lower their defenses and be completely open? Ichigo really should start doing something now... UnknownKido 23:15, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Is Aizen the Final Villain?
I noticed that a lot of us have seculated about whether or not Aizen is the final bad guy, so i decided to focus that suspicion. Personaly, I think that by the end of this Arc, Aizen will be dead. This is mainly due to the fact that the current arc will end in June, and will be followed by a short Arc, then a very long one. And I think that Kubo will want to bring forth a new villain, in order to mix things up. Honestly, I'm not apposed to seeing a time skip. Although I'm not sure how that would work exactly...... But maybe we will find out:) --Captain of squad 0--

Yeah I highly doubt that Aizen is the Final Villain. Considering that there a supposed to be two other arcs after this one. Kubo himself did even say he had a few more stories to tell (that might have been a few stories ago thought i can't remember) Wouldnt that be a let down thought? Aizen escapes and they keep fighing him for the next 2 years+ :/ Caucasaifro 04:32, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Man if Aizen does escape from the current place it will be after he kills everyone. So no point in such an angle. May be we will see more new villains. May be a totally new species apart from shinigami or hollow or quincy or humans (if i have missed out any.. forgive me). I would say.. lets wait and see.. Kishen1912 05:52, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

No, I think Aizen is the first and final main villain. Really the main course of events in Bleach's storyline are because of the actions of aizen and urahara. It would not be bleach without aizen. I think the short arc over the summer is going to be like the turn back the pendulum arc talking about Isshin's backstory and his relationships between Ryūken Ishida and kisuke and really how he met Masaki and what happened to his powers. Then I think the long arc ahead will be the final arc. I think it will take place in soul society aizen did say he would just got soul society and destroy karakura town there. It will be a long battle. It would be fitting for Bleach to end where it truly started.--Lemursrule 20:57, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

i dont care who yells at me for saying this but i would love if kisuke ended up being a worse bad guy then aizen and just wanted him out of the way so he could easily take out the capitans while they are tired and make a key on his own and try to become kingKensei24 00:28, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to remind you all that we do have a rule against crack theories. Suggesting that Urahara Kisuke may be a villain falls under the category of crack theory because it flies in the face of all that we have been shown in the manga. Were the above comment not phrased as a wish, it would be deleted already. Seriously people, to date Kubo has never hinted that Urahara is anything but what he appears to be and Urahara Kisuke stopped being a mystery sometime ago. So any suggestion that he might be a villain is crack. NOT speculation. Do bear the distinction in mind as you continue your discussion. As for the actual discussion, no I do not believe that there will be a villain after Aizen. In addition, Kubo did say that Isshin will feature more heavily in the upcoming arc. So very likely, the next arc will explore Isshin more. In addition, Kubo has also stated that he will be revealing Yachiru's namesake, the woman who is the only person Kenpachi respected. So the next arc may well be a story revolving around those things. We'll just have to wait and see. Tinni  (Talk)  05:00, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Aizen has been the entire focus of the series from the beginning, I highly doubt Kubo is going to swing the way of a filler arc and pull some random new baddy out of his rear. It gets old reading a bunch of sappy generic fantasies about a subject that speaks for itself. Let us all bear in mind that the Vasto Lorde, Royal Guard and Soul King STILL have yet to come into play. I think it's pretty safe to say that no, Aizen will not be defeated by the Captains, no he will not be defeated by their idea of Trump Card Ichigo, why? Because that's the plan. And as the story has always shown, as REAL LIFE shows, these sorts of things almost never go according to plan. I still find it amusing that there are those here that actually thought Aizen got stabbed by the Kid Genius. See the problem is, no one actually learns anything from the "Aizen-sama" they're salivating over; he sees the BIG PICTURE. NeoNirvana 4:00, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

When was Kyoka Suigetsu activated during the FKT battle?
I was wondering when did Aizen actually activated Complete Hypnosis. I believe it was after Soi Fon's attack, since he was still able to block it with his reiatsu. Or maybe after Shunsui stabbed him (since I can't see any other wounds on Hinamori other than Toshirou's sword). Waaaahhh.. i'm really confused. I don't know which to believe or not. Everytime I read the manga my heart always has irregular rhythm. I hate it when kyoka suigetsu's complete hypnosis also affects me. lol WinterFox 02:29, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding how Aizen's power works. I have seen some terrible reasoning and rubbish surrounding it. Which odd given that Aizen explained his powers perfectly clearly in chapter 171 page 13. To sum up what he said in that chapter,

1. The initial condition for hypnosis is to see his shikai

2. After that, he can put you under hypnosis whenever he releases his shikai

From both the Soul Society Arc and the Turn Back the Pendulum Arc we know that Aizen's hypnosis "carries on". Even if he is not there. Only desolving when he releases his shikai again. This he explained to Unohaha in chapter 171 page 09.

So what does that mean? What it means is that when the captains first arrived in Fake Karakura Town, they were not under any kind of hypnosis because Aizen had released his shikai just prior to leaving Soul Society. However, they were all suspectable to hypnosis. He created a minor illusion to mess with Harribel, I have heard a lot of people say that Aizen needed illusion to defeat Harribel because she was so powerful but it seems plain to me that he was just screwing with her head - knowing full well that she would attack him, the moment he tried to dispose of her. Instead of dodging, he merely made her think she had scratched him before taking that away from her. I can't really imagine a more cruel taunt. You are dying and use the last of your strength you try to hurt the man who betrayed you and for a moment you think you have done it but then... it was just a trick! Cruel, cruel trick and perfectly Aizen. But I am digressing. The question was when did Aizen release Kyoka Suigetsu. I think he released it straight off the bat, when Hitsugaya first attacked but the only illusion he created at the time was that he didn't use it. So no one saw it "shattering". Kyoka Suigetsu does have a visible release. Aizen merely hid the release. After that, well like I said in my blog post, clearly Ichigo is being used as the "check point". What Ichigo confirms, actually happened. In chapter 391, Ichigo confirmed that Aizen, the real Aizen, was the one that disposed of Komamura, Love and Rose. However, no reference was made to Ichigo from the point that Soifon confronted Aizen. So at some point after Soifon confronted Aizen, he switched with Hinamori. The real questions is, 1) when exactly did he switch with Hinamori? and 2) How did he do it? That I think we will find out within the first few pages of chapter 393. Possible in the form of a flash back from Ichigo, who will recount what he saw. My guess is, it was some sort of Kido spell and Hinamori was picked not only because her presence on Hitsugaya's sword would mess him up but also because Aizen, who is in-tune with Hinamori's reiatsu found it easiest to switch with her. Tinni  (Talk)  05:00, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

interesting analogy Tinni... also, I never knew than Aizen's reiatsu is in-tune with Hinamori's. It may be a special kind of Kido, as you've said. Just want to clear something... everytime Aizen releases his zanpakuto's shikai, you're under his hypnosis. If he releases again, then the hypnosis temporarily subsides. does the hypnosis takes under effect immeadiately after the release or Aizen can specify when to activate it after the release? WinterFox 08:42, February 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Firstly, I just wanted to make clear that when I say "in-tune" I do mean that he is more aware of her reiatsu then those of other people. Understandable given that she was his vice-captain for a what has been implied to be more some years. The page I linked to shows Aizen becoming almost instantly aware that Hinamori has entered the battlefied while enclosed in Yama-jii's flame cage. Hitsugaya himself, becomes aware of Hinamori's presence about then as well. This is not necessarily unique, Ichimaru picked-up on the fact that Kira was getting angry based on fluctuation in his reiatsu and seemed to somehow deduce from that, that Kira was "doing fine". Only Tosen seems to have no special awareness of Hisagi, given that he was surprised by Hisagi a totally of three times! But my point was, that if Aizen had to pick someone to switch with, Hinamori was probably the one person he would home in on at a moments notice. At least that's what I think. Of course, the choice of Hinamori had other sadistic benefits as well.


 * As for how Aizen's shikai works. Yes, it does seem to be that when you first see his shikai you become susceptible to hypnosis but aren't necessarily hypnotised. However, he can then use the power of his shikai to give you a hypnotic suggestion under which you stay until he chooses to release you from it by invoking his shikai again. It doesn't mean that his zanpakuto is constantly in shikai or anything like that, as has been suggested. It just means that the hypnosis stays with you. Which, I might add, is how hypnosis works anyway. Assuming that you do believe people can be hypnotised, once the hypnotic suggestion is given to you, your are under it until you are released. It doesn't matter that the hypnosis took place years ago or that the original hypnotist might be somewhere else. Once you brain is under the sway of the hypnotic suggestion, that's that. So you can say that Kubo hasn't really done anything radical with Aizen's zanpakuto. He has simply given Aizen the power of a hypnotist. An extremely skilled hypnotist who can make you cluck like a chicken for the rest of your life every time you hear a bell and not stop clucking like a chicken until you hear the bell again. I hope that makes sense... Tinni   (Talk)  09:24, February 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * So in short.. Aizen sama releases once and your ok, but when he releases for a second time you get hypnotised.. and then from there its on or off when he releases... simple enought to get. Captain Brooks 12:23, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

I beleived that he released before the battle even began. Remember he said that once you seen it he can use it at any time he pleases meaning you do not have to see it released again to be hypnotized. Also meaning that he doesnt even have to be in the same location. At least that what I took from the conversion with Shinji. So the real question is when did he make the switch with Momo. Because Ichigo could tell the true Aizen when he attacked him in FKT. And it seems he knew they were attacking Momo during that whole exchange. Him havent it released before the battle can account for evey battle he used it in. That includes Harribel as well because Ichigo was not there to see that. The reitsu thing could just be a side effect of the Hypnosis meaning that he really didnt use his true reitsu to block Soifon but just had her Hypnotized to beleive so. The only exchange that show his true where abouts is when Ichigo attacked him when he got to FKT. Other than that Ichigo could see the real Aizen the whole time when evey one else attacked Momo. So what needs to be explained is when Aizen did the switch. Tealang99 13:53, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Agreed Tealang.. we need to know when Aizen sama switched with Momo. I have a theory that the captains were fighting an illusion and that he used some form of a teleportation kido to place momo in the way of toshiro's final attack. (The stab from toshiro seems to be the only wound she has sustained.) Captain Brooks 17:56, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Momo might have been fighting an illusion too, or going to fight one when she was incased in the ice which would mean that aizen could have been almost anywhere but i don't think he switched intill right before the ice got the illusion. Bluegetsuga 23:13, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

I have the feeling we will see a flash back through Ichigo's POV with the next chapter, another thing i heard someone say on another board was that they think ichigo was yelling the whole time, Aizen can control every sense including hearing so they couldn't hear him untill aizen let them hear him. which makes it more serious that only someone who has not seen the shikai can attack him. But I think he prolly used it some time after ichigo came through the garganta because he can control each person what they see, it is not limited to an overall vision. Shillagan 01:36, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

-.- Hinamori was not fighting. She was gravely injured. Even if she wanted to, her body could not have fought. I repeat, Hinamori was not fighting. The person doing the fighting was Aizen. Aizen can make things appear what they are not. He cannot conjure things and he cannot make someone do what they are physically incapable of doing. He cannot make Hinamori fight when her body simply was not able to. Honestly, why is it so hard for people to follow Aizen's powers? In addition, Ichigo did confirm that Aizen was the one who disposed of Komamura, Love and Rose. That's pretty much what the first few pages of chapter 391 was. Did people simply miss the emphasis on Ichigo's eyes? He SAW Aizen pwn Komamura, Love and Rose. No reference was made to Ichigo from the moment SOIFON STARTED ATTACKING. Whatever happened, happened after Soifon and Aizen had their conversation. In addition, do you guys really think that Ichigo would not physically intervene if everybody was beating up on Hinamori from the start. The reason he didn't was because it all happened suddenly. Remember that from this point on in chapter 391, Aizen was pretty much immobilized. So my best guess is that at some point after that, Aizen switched himself with Hinamori. Unfortunately, we won't know anything for certain until chapter 393 comes out. Tinni  (Talk)  04:18, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Serious speculating guys... u believe that Tinni pretty much summed up the whole scenario... however we need to remember this... before leaving for heuco mundo, Aizen was so powerful that he could stop ichigo's bankai with one finger... and the fact the he was so fast the renji who could follow byakuya's flash step couldn't follow Aizen's.. Hence it is clearly possible that Aizen switched with hinamori round about the time when Soifon confronted him. but still whole lot of other possibilities can be explored... however combining what i just said with what tinni has mentioned pretty much sums it up... Also the fact that everyone present at FKT now except ichigo has seen Aizen's shikai once and because of that Aizen can control their senses whenever he wants without ever having to say 'kudakero, kyoka suigetsu' ... just food for thought... Kishen1912 05:30, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yes also we know that captain lvl shinagami are able to release their shikai without saying command.It was said by byakuya when he was fighting renji.Shaggi 06:35, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I have a strange gut feeling Orihime will kill Aizen. Think about it. She is the only character with a power even remotely on par with Aizen's. We have yet to she what the true extent of her attack power, she is really going to have to come to a point where she will just snap. Also I think Aizen knows a little more about her power's that he did not mention, perhaps to stay on the safe side, the only reason he showed her the Hōgyoku is because he did not intend to keep her alive for very much longer. I also think there is a connection between Orihime and the soul king, especially in her namesake alone. Besides her brother, we do not really have a clear backstory on Orihime's family. All we know is that her parents were abusive, really nothing else. Also near the begining of the series, rukia's memory replacement was only temporary it lasted 1 perhaps 2 weeks at the most, thus explaining why tatsuki had some recollection of the night because she was near Orihime and Ichigo. Really when you think about it power and ability wise, Orihime is one of, if not the most powerful character in the series.--Lemursrule 17:57, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Watched Lemursrule with an incredulous face*.. NOOOOOO. This takes 1st place for the most unbelievable thing said regarding the Bleach world! Aizen sama will not let Orihime near the Hogyoku by herself and if he wanted her killed.. he would have let Loly and Menoly finish her. The true extent of her powers have been shown.. Tsubaki was taken out by the Jirobo Ikkanzaka with one swipe and Yammy destroyed him completely with his palm with no effort whatsoever. Her shields dont look like they can do much more... but her phenomenon rejection ability might be able to do a bit more.. but unless she is able to upgrade Tsuabki (which doesn't seem like its going to happen); then she is fairly usely offensively. I doubt a connection between her and the Soul King, there is no evidence that she is in any way related to him.. and for all we know; coming into contact with a hollow could give you some spiritual awareness jsut like hanging around Ichigo could. Captain Brooks 18:11, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

tinni i guess your right about the not switching till after soifon's attack. but he probley switched around the point when hitsugaya started charging at him to just before he would have been stabbed, and maybe he didn't put momo on the sword till after he would have been stabed because ichigo dosen't do anything intill after he hears omeda celabrating and possibly had lost sight of aizen and maybe looking for him or else he would have yelled when aizen switched himself with momo. maybe aizen acually dodged the ice that incased his arm or sliced it off before it incased it but made a illusion that he was traped in the ice, so that he was still free to move around without having to waste time freeing his arm from it.Bluegetsuga 20:13, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

@Tinni - thanks for clarifying how the Hypnosis works. I was on the wrong impression that Aizen needs to unsheath his sword in order to activate/inactivate the hypnosis.

Regarding the time the swap happened, I am thinking it was just before Hitsugaya was about to stab him. If it was earlier than that, then why did Kubo illustrated Aizen being "shocked" when he saw Sakanade was released? I might be wrong, of course. i guess i'll just wait for two weeks to know what really happened (or maybe longer, if TK decided to switch back to Hueco Mundo). WinterFox 03:17, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

though I'm not too sure myself, I agree with Bluegetsuga and WinterFox. Aizen was throughly shocked, and, well, i don't know if it's much but his thoughts don't seem like the type that hinamori would have had. for one thing, I doubt she would have swore. and if the translation was just bad, I just get the feeling that it was really Aizen thinking. Also, since we don't really see another wound on Momo other than hitsugaya's sword, and I doubt she would have been able to stop Soi fon's attack like that. Of course, it could have been just after Soi fon, and before kyouraku attacked, but then again, we don't see the wound on Momo (or do we? I'm not sure) but then, that doesn't explain how Aizen is unhurt. hmm, I think I can come to the conclusion that it was probably after Soi Fon attacked. he could have made an illusion to make it look like he was there when kyouraku attacked, maybe. but that still doesn't explain his thoughts (if they were his) when he noticed shinji. Also, we see him thinking about how hitsguaya's biggest downfall is his habit of charging into things. the way they were thought just doesn't seem like Momo. i feel that he did it as soon as he notcied that Shinji had activated his shikai, and just before he got stabbed. I guess we'll have to wait and see. KnowledgeandImagination 04:38, February 15, 2010 (UTC)