Talk:Baraggan Louisenbairn/Archive 1

Barragan's Release Command
Someone put it in chinese or something first. I fixed it, and no one change it because it will be wrong if you do. Who is the person who is putting the wrong information in the Espada release pages? Better question, why do these mistakes go uncorrected, except by me? This was a problem on Yammy's page too.

I already found the raw. Im still trying to find the characters for it. Here is the link. http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12bs3435c7a.jpg --Agate genbu 14:02, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Template:Box detail
Yes, I added it, yes, that might be extreme, yes, it will be removed, yes, we need it. Seriously, since days, peoples don't understand it, we have a tag on the page, they can't miss it, we have a tag under the edit box, they probably see it, we already reverted many edits, they probably know it, still, they keep adding those spoilers, I am bored. Feel free to comment it, if you dislike it or even agree with it.

I agree with it. I imagine that the only ones who wouldn't agree are users who newly register, because they haven't been around enough and some think "hey, it's not stated. I can beat everyone to the punch", only to find out that we have an anti-spoiler policy. With the tags and the noticeable reverting of edits, they should be able to take a hint, yet they don't. At this point, they should start paying attention to this next warning. It might discourage them more than the other tags (though the others are still necessary), so yeah, I think it's a good idea. Arrancar109 20:37, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Automated transfer of Problem Report #21744
The following message was left by Anonymous via PR #21744 on 2009-05-03 13:37:51 UTC

In the appearance, it says Stark proclaims he's the 2nd while in the manga he is the 1st as the tattoo is on his hand.

his new weapon
To me, it looks like an axe. Like his zanpakutō. I can't find any resemblance of a scythe in it. SO I'm going to change it and I'll post the picture.Agate genbu 14:45, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Barragan's Name
I have a question. What chapter was the correct spelling of Barragan's name confirmed?--Lazer81095 22:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Barragan is the only Espada who did not have his name spelled out in one of the chapter covers (like Starrk's in chapter 362). However, the double R in his nameis reasonable following the pattern set by the other Espada, and it's the same way the architect Luis Barragán's name is spelled.

The spelling of Segunda's name confirmed in the 10th official gum card set. So he is Baraggan.--Layol 03:42, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

I'm gonna wait until I've gone through the manga before we do anything. So do NOT change anything until I give the okay. After all, the manga has spelled thing differently from outside sources (Jeagerjaques is actually Jaegerjaquez), so WAIT until then. Arrancar109 03:46, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Wait until WHAT? He is dead already and will not appear on cover. And arrancar data for two of espada is single instance. This gum cards was made by "Bandai". It is the official source. Maybe less official then manga but official. Why fan-made name should have more value?

But don't worry. I will not change this. --Layol 04:55, October 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, seriously dude, chill. I was making sure that the manga didn't spell it out since the last time people checked for his name (June 26 was when this last discussed). I went through the past few dozen chapters to make sure it wasn't spelled differently. And seriously, think twice before insulting other users, as I won't be lenient next time you do it. Outside-manga sources need to be verified before anything is changed, and whether you like it or not, people HAVE missed some things before (though it seems you're correct, as I found nothing). Arrancar109 05:05, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry. I read previous message wrongly.--Layol 05:59, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Is he dead?
In light of the latest chapter, do we believe Barry to have been completely disintergrated (ie dead), or is he coming back? It's just so we know if we can rewrite some bits (not the plot summary mind.) in the past tense. (eg He was the Segunda Espada, his Hierro was, etc...) TomServo101 07:50, 21 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe there's a discussion for his death in the forum, but those tenses should not be changed (see Zommari, Szayel, etc.)

Ancient Chaos 07:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

He's completely dead there's also an article about it in the forums, if you want to double check.--SalmanH 07:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that guys. TomServo101 07:59, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you believe your own eyes? You don't need a forum article to reach a conclusion. Yes, he has a gigantic hole in his body, but so did Mayuri at an occasion, until he used a way to escape. You should wait for the next issue to know for sure before changing the article. It's completely OK to leave the article we have now, because it's unbiased. Auron85 16:03, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't know why it says here Resolved when someone still changed the page... I hope you're right, Superlogan7437. Otherwise, you're being rash. Auron85 11:34, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, take a look at the last two pages, on the second to last, he has a small hole in him, and on the last, the hole has expanded, i think it's safe to assume him dead.

This is done as far as a conversation, especially considering it doesn't belong on a talk page, if you want to talk about it go to the articles about it in the forum. Thank You.Salubri 17:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed in the following chapters as dead, not in pieces or possibly alive or whatever, plain and simple dead.Salubri 19:20, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

Ironic
Should we put that,as of now, He is they only Arrancar to be killed by his own power?

gohanRULEZ 17:52, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

its already there.Salubri 18:09, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Skull/Mask
Would Barragan's skull in his released form be considered his mask remnant? (or more simply, should he be added to the list of arrancar who have had their mask(remnant) broken in battle) Ancient Chaos 05:51, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure, as it does seem that the skeleton itself is his body, as in, there's nothing underneath. From what I've observed from the wound Soifon gave him, he doesn't seem to have anything under that skull, so it might very well just be his head. This is just my observation though, so I admit that this might be wrong. Arrancar109 06:06, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

That was one of my thoughts as well, I just wasn't sure because the remnant that was his crown disappeared and he has a real crown in place of it (which somehow didn't break with the blast...) Ancient Chaos 06:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

First to be killed...
...by a Vizard is incorrect. I thought we count Ichigo as a Vizard, no? It means that he has already killed two of the Espadas, one ranking pretty high. Maybe change to "the first Espada to be killed in the Town Battle"? After all, we still don't know if WW is alive or not (probably yeah). Abedeus 20:56, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think the assumption that Ichigo killed 2 Espada is incorrect; he only (unwillingly) killed Ulquiorra; he spared Grimmjow, who was later struck down by Nnoitra (now leaving his fate as unknown). I think it is listed as "Besides Ichigo" in the trivia that mentions this, but that might just be Hachi's article. Arrancar109 21:11, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Aging
I added a comment about how Barragan aged to death, contradicting Lilynette in the trivia section. Though, I know it was likely just an attempt of Lily's to get Ukki to fight her, it seems like something worth noting. One eye 17:06, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Read again she said they don't have age in sense as we do (child, teenager, adult, elder) as she looks like a kid but thats not a concept for them she apparently isn't one, it doesn't mean time can't affect them.Salubri 19:20, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

Cero
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is the only Espada to not demonstrate cero or a cero variant, and may possibly be the only arrancar thus far not to demonstrate a cero. Should that be mentioned in the trivia? Ten Tailed Fox 17:54, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I am pretty sure than neither Zommari, Szayel, Aaroniero, or Yammy have used cero of any variety, but I am not entirely sure. Mohrpheus 17:58, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

It's already in the trivia: "Barragan is one of the few Espada not to be seen using a cero, along with Zommari Leroux, Szayel Aporro Granz and Aaroniero Arruruerie." Twocents 18:07, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, thank you. Though to answer one of the others. Yammy used Cero on in his first appearance, but your right about the other two, sorry for the mix up. Ten Tailed Fox 19:59, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, Yammy used Bala. It's weaker than Cero and faster than Cero, but not a Cero. Abedeus 17:51, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yammy did use a cero in his first appearance. He fired it at Yourichi & Inoue, but it was blocked by Urahara. You're thinking of his 2nd encounter with Urahara, where we saw bala for the first time (along with WW & Ulquiorra). --Yyp 21:44, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Ants and Dragons reference
Before a few days ago it said something on Barragan's page about his whole ants and dragons quote being a reference to something and that he seemed like he was modeled after the king from that story, i was wondering what that story was and why this was taken off his page. bfeldz1023 00:38, 30 August 2009 (EST)

It was speculative at best there was no reference to anything such as that in the series.Salubri 19:20, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

Respira
Is it possible that Respira was a type of Cero? Sting! TenRyuoh! 22:22, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Doubt it. Ceros tend to be fired in one direction. My understanding is that Respira is omni-directional, at least that what it looks like to me (am I wrong?). Plus I'd imagine ceros would give off a specific kind of 'energy signature', as it were, that an experienced captain would recognise. It seems no-one did. TomServo101 22:36, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking on this for a while. I thought maybe because of his Release He would have a Cero that would relate to his power,but you seem to be right,So I'll drop it. Sting! TenRyuoh! 22:45, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Trivia clean-up
I have removed the following from the trivia, as they meet the description of "Junk Trivia". Please do not just add them back in. If you feel that any of them are worthwhile, give your reasons here first. Thank you. --Yyp 15:19, October 26, 2009 (UTC)

''Baraggan and his Fracción's mask fragments are all forms of headgear. Baraggan's white crown adds to the idea of him being a "king," according to his Fracción.''
 * First part can be learned from reading the article/looking at the pictures. Second part - that should be obvious to anybody reading the page. No need to spell it out for them in the trivia.

''Interestingly, Baraggan's crown did not disintegrate with him, showing that it was never part of his body. This is also proven by the fact that previously, Baraggan had a different crown. However, this contradicts the remnants of his hollow mask when he was in human form: no other part of his body resembles it.''
 * This one is a mix of speculation and repeating already mentioned things (the crown remaining is mentioned at the end of his synopsis)

Baraggan's release form is similar to the Western personification of the Grim Reaper: a cloaked skeleton who is associated with death, especially with his aspect.
 * That can be seen quite well from the pictures of him. No need to repeat it in the trivia.

''Baraggan is the second of the Espada to have part of his life as a Hollow revealed, the first being Grimmjow Jaegerjaquez. He is the seventh of the Arrancar in total to have their experiences previous to joining Aizen shown, behind Grimmjow and his five fracćion.''
 * This point will just get longer & longer as the story continues. There is nothing special about this.

His mask before his hollowfication.
Could it be his crown? We know based on Grimmjow's shown past that the release is a fusion of the original hollow form and its shinigamitized form which could explain why the mask looks so different from the flashback or based on what we saw with Nnorita's like how his weapon changed over time the same could of happened for Baraggan.Saimaroimaru 22:17, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Baraggan's mask appears to be his skull. I doubt the crown was any part of his body since it fell off after he died. However, Baraggan's the exception to alot of things, so it's hard to say. Probably his mask extends to his entire body, like how Grimmjow's entire body was bone white along with segments similar to his "mask". However, if it was indeed part of his body (the crown), then Baraggan would be the contender for biggest narcissist since Yumichika (seriously, who actually has a physical, natural body that looks like a king, and have a personality to go with it?) xDDeathhacker 04:16, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about where his mask remnants were, but the whole issue with Baraggan being an Arrancar before Aizen is wrong. Anybody who wants to debate this can take it to the Forum. Baraggan didn't stay released while we saw him as the second Espada, so he obviously wouldn't have done so before. It is always possible that when he becam an Arrancar he lost his mask altogether. Hasn't happened before or with anyone else so that too is speculation. Overall it doesn't really matter as Mask remnants r not need-to-know information. Minato (Talk)  04:24, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Hierro
On the article, it states that Baraggan's Hierro is what saved him from Soifon's second shot with her Bankai. As far as we've seen, Hierro's capacity has only worked on a "physical" capacity. Shouldn't it be more related to his Durability instead?

Hierro is arrancar durability, its like a steal skin. The harder it is the harder it is to injure them. The article refers to her more direct hit on him which suggests that he survived due the hierro akin to durability in a shingiami combatant. Salubri (Talk)  04:23, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, okay. Never realized that we use Hierro in place of durability for Arrancar - thanks for the heads up. Mohrpheus 22:10, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Gran Caida kanji
"滅亡の斧" does not translate into "Downfallen Axe"; rather, it translates into "Axe of Extinction". It both makes more sense than the original "translation" and fits with his Grim Reaper theme. MarqFJA 22:11, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Fudged facts from official sources
I attended a Q&A with Tite Kubo a couple of months ago, during which someone asked him about the spelling of "Baraggan's" name. Mr. Kubo responded that the character was named for Luis Barragan, and his name should be spelt the same as that of the architect. Now, I'm not trying to argue that the name needs to be changed in this article; I just thought it pertinent to mention that even the ever-so-reliable "official sources" can contain inaccurate information. (Also interesting to note, Mr. Kubo was subsequently asked about "Harribel" vs "Halibel," and the answer was the latter). Yoruichi&#39;s Paramour 15:59, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Straight from Kubo himself, eh? Get a source and let's rectify this pronto. maggosh 16:01, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Not to mention the stuff about Harribel is harder to believe, since he's the one who drew the character cover regarding the spelling in the first place. Arrancar109 (Talk)  16:04, May 21, 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have any hard evidence to support it, hence why I made no move to have it changed. Video/audio recorders were not allowed into the Q&A, and it was not I that asked the question, so all the record I have is my own word. It would make sense though, seeing as how this was not the first time Mr. Kubo has said that the character is named for Luis Barragan. (In regards to the Harribel comment: Mr. Kubo was not asked this question directly. Rather, he was asked about the character and while referring to her, he himself pronounced the name with an L sound instead of the R sound. Instead of "Hariberu," it was very distinctly "Halibel.") Yoruichi&#39;s Paramour 17:44, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

King me


New image from the ChAngE opening theme, shows him from when he was king. --| WhiteArmor | (Talk) |-- 10:25, April 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * As nice as it is, we don't use images from the opening/endings in the articles unless absolutely necessary (eg Yachiru's Zanpakuto) -- Yyp (Talk) 10:43, April 14, 2010 (UTC)