Forum:Bankai Discussion

Bankai The Elusive Skill
This topic was getting a bit long, but you can still continue discussing it here. --Yyp 12:42, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

bankai's are getting smaller...
ok I know that the two most recently revealed bankais are Soifon and Kensei, and they probably have the smallest shikai, but kensei's bankai... RESEMBLES CHAD'S ARM???!!!!??? WTF????!!!!! it better pack some serious punch. and byakuya freaked when he saw ichigo's bankai. kensei's, from the sound of it, isnt much bigger...--Ulquiorra Wannabe128 18:10, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

I would like to point out that both Soifon and Kensei's bankais are larger then their shikai. On the other hand, Ichigo's sword is smaller in bankai form then shikai form. Thus why Byakuya got confused. Tinni 22:19, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't say Kensei's Bankai looks anything like Chad's Arm. The arms seem more for decoration, similar to Ichigo and Renji's change in appearance in Bankai. The actual Bankai is the two fist held blades he has, which is an obvious expansion on the combat knife he has in shikai. Ichigo's is a compression of his spiritual pressure which is were the difference is.

If you think about Hitsugaya his Bankai isn't that big in appearance, it just add's the ice dragon armour and mostly powers up his shikai abitilies. Ikkaku's is also not a huge differnce is size. The only person with a truly massive bankai is Kommamura who again is a bit of an exception. Nick D Wolfwood 15:00, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Komamura's is obviously the largest bankai we've seen so far, but Renji's is pretty big really, especially since he can extend its joint with his spirit power. There's obviously as large a variation in Bankai size as there is in just general Zanpakutou makeup. My theory on Komamura's Bankai is that, since it's the ultimate expression of his soul, it's huge because it's expressing his desire to be seen, since he grew up hiding himself from everyone. Any takers? Lol. --Liamxblazeneyes 21:01, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Bankais that need to be seen
In my opinion there are two people that i think Tite Kubo cannot end the series without showing their bankai's,and those two are deffently: Uhrahara,and Gin. Ever since Uhrahara said to Renji "My bankai isnt for lending power" ive been sooooo annxious to see what it is. Gin was my favorite Captin before he left the Soul Society (now its Ukitake),and im wondering if his bankai is going to be long range or something else (???) Any inputs on other Bankais?Havefun221 14:23, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Most probably won't happen but i'd like to see a interesting royal guard's bankai, i'd also like to see Flower coat's, Kenpachi's if they ever let him discover his zanpaktou's name, Isshin's, urahara's needs to be seen i co-sign that, ukitake's they need to find a cure 4 that guy it really kills me 2 see him sick and the old guy's bankai idon't think that will happen either. Kissmybankai 15:47, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Ones that we will most definitely see: Shunsui's (it has been mentioned in the Manga that he is definitely going to use bankai, he just doesn't know when), Gin and Aizen (they are left fighting the entire Gotei 13, I think they are bound to show at least some power to stay alive), the Captain lvl Vizards (Love, Rose, Shinji, unless they die too soon to show them)

Ones that are questionable: Urahara (probably will because they have mentioned his bankai already in the series, and won't let fans down), Unohana (also about fans, we want to see it happen, so it might), Captain Commander Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto (this one is a toss-up, we want to see it, and are badly wanting to see his full power, and what the leader of all Gotei 13 has to offer us in the form of a Bankai, but idk if he will actually release it), Tessai (pretty sure he has one, since he was a captain after all), Yoruichi (probably not gonna see it), Ukitake (he might actually already be dead /shrug, if not, i doubt he will actually show his bankai, no clue), Muramasa (maybe? he is a zanpaktou after all, and he seems to be somewhat powerful, so he probably has a bankai form he has yet to show us, not sure though)

we have already seen a lot of Bankai forms from a lot of individuals. the only thing i hope for is that some of the Vice Captains, and even lower "important characters", achieve bankai so we can see how cool they look. it helps to at least show the good shinigami improving to the point of gaining more power for themselves.(best example of this is Renji, he wanted to be much stronger, so he trained his ass off to achieve bankai) we will see what happens, and i am also pretty sure this series is going on for a long long long long time.(in Japan Bleach is a very popular series and everyone loves it, and easy to market towards those people, in America it is another anime/"cartoon"/manga which some people love and some don't even care to watch. As long as they have a crowd in Japan that is dying for more Bleach, they are going to supply it.Bk1217 16:46, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I would love to see Yumichika's bankai some day. His shikai is allready really powerful, so the bankai could be something really special. Though I doubt we will ever see it, he's not that major character. --Akeki 15:04, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

I want to see everyone who has a bankai,bankais'. The two main ones are Aizen and Genryūsai Shigekuni Yamamoto.Flaminghorse 12:28, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Flaminghorse.. everyone; especially the Vizards who have them ofcourse.--Captain Brooks 18:29, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

I agree about Gin's and Urahara's Bankai needing to be seen, Gin because if his role in the defection (and Aizen has claimed that Gin has been the only person ever worthy of being called his lieutenant), and Urahara's because of the mystery surrounding him as his Benihime. Personally, I really want to see Kyōraku's Bankai because Ukitake claimed he shouldn't use it when others are watching, and Ukitake's given that if his Zanpakutou can absorb the Primera's Cero, its intriguing to think of what else its capable of. SerialSniper14 (Talk)  08:25, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I have to agree with you on Urahara and Gin's Bankai's purely because there the ones I have no clue as to what they would be. Since most Bankai's are an evolution on the Shikai, you can kind of guess where there going with it, but what could possibly an evolution of Shino? So far kubo hasn't dissapointed me really with anybodies Bankai yet, I think most of them have been creative, I especially like Tosen's which was really cool. Oh and I'd love to see Kyoraku's cause he's my favourite character, although I doubt he'll reveal his anytime soon, since his Shikai's true powers have only recently been shown.TheotherZangetsu 21:25, January 31 2010 (UTC)

Captain-Commander Yamamoto's Bankai
will Captain-Commander Yamamoto use his bankai to fight aizen? why hasent he used it yet? is he afraid of his bankai or what it could do? what do you think? Darkgoku 02:31, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

I think he intends to leave most of the battling to his subordinates, which is the impression I got from the way he mocked Kira and the others for needing help taking out Allon. That's my inclination anyway. Twocents 02:33, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

It would be funny twist if it turned out that he doesn't have bankai at all, just really powerful shikai :P --Akeki 05:00, October 28, 2009 (UTC)


 * That's taking crack too far. Actually, it's one of my pet peeves, this "maybe they don't have bankai" business. I have heard it about Aizen, people insisted, INSISTED Soifon didn't have one and it just goes on and on. Only Kenpachi doesn't have one and it was emphasised that Kenpachi was the only one in the history of Soul Society to become a captain without bankai. I don't see why people even bother saying other captain class Shinigami don't have bankai. It's not even funny. Tinni 02:33, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

ya, that would be funny. i can see it to, some one would say *caption yamamoto i think you should use your bankai*, and he says *i....don't have one.* lol. Soul reaper magnum 08:16, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

what do you mean Soul reaper magnum? that old fart may have a bankai but he is to strong to show it all around him. - Elisku

He hasn't used his bankai yet, cause he hasn't needed to. Hes only been in one real fight, when he fought Shunsui & Jushiro. They didn't use their Bankai so his was uneeded. We are all thinking the same thing, why hasn't he challenged Aizen directly. Yamamoto is the only Soul Reaper who has a chance of taking down Aizen one-on-one. I think when we get back to the FKT he will challenge Aizen & we will finally see his Bankai. Minato88 10:05, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

ya probably, still i wonder what it'll be?Soul reaper magnum 11:24, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

His bankai is most probably a super charged fire version of toshiro's, seeing as he reached the peak of his shinigami powers, it might even be dangerous 4 people to b around when released.Kissmybankai 14:22, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

I really hope that its a nice transition from Shikai to Bankai. In my opinion, Byakuya's was by far the best transition, its basically his Shikai just increased in size. Though Yamamoto's Shikai is so damn huge and powerful, I wouldnt even know what it could be. But that giant Sokyoku phoenix would of been really cool in my opinion. I just hope it isnt something like Ichigo's or Soi Fon's KamikazeNewf 02:23, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

I call Fire Dragon! Tinni 02:35, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

sorry about that tinni we're just having a little fun.Soul reaper magnum 04:31, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

not saying that Ichigo's or Soi Fon's bankai is crap,but by the looks of it Soi Fon is at her max, it would be preety ownage to have a missile,but it's not like people whould stand there and tank it. if it made like spiritual energy seeking missile and does alittle more powerfull than i would say her bankai wouldn't be so bad, maybe she can learnd how to charge the missile up with her Shunkō becasue she can't use her bankai too often, atlease not one after another... and though Ichigo's bankai can't really get anywere more,he still got his hollow to lv up.

i'm pretty sure Soi Fon's Bankai can lock on, because it takes time to (what it seems like) "lock-on" a target, the only downfall is it takes time to prepare, and once it gets shot, just about anything in a certain square miles, gets blown to all hell. I think her Bankai (even though not exactly what i expected) is actually pretty bad-ass. She can pretty much blow just about anything away in a heartbeat. The only reason it didn't blow Barragan away is because he lessened the damage by causing it to blow up a distance away from him. Yet the shockwave was still unbelievably strong.idk i kinda like it anyways. i kinda wanna see it more now just to see what it can actually do to a real target, not someone who decays everything that he wants to. Bk1217 08:54, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
 * NOOOO Soi Fon's like an assassin, why give her a freaking bazooka ffs. SNIPER RIFLE WOULD'VE BEEN BETTER --(QQ)∞wertyasdf 14:22, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

i don't think they would put the center on her any more, somethink hit me that a few more people have already outplay their part.but i would still like to see what happen when she charge up the missile up with her Shunkō.

Fire dragon lol yeah that sounds good TinniKissmybankai 11:56, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

The Kikko (Soukyoku fire bird)would have made a good Bankai for Genryusai; but we'll just have to wait and see...--Captain Brooks 18:34, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

For a while I actually considered that Yamamoto's bankai WAS the Soukyouku, and that he sealed it inside the giant execution blade. But there's really no way to actually justify that, I think. I'm sure if/when he reveals his bankai it will be ridiculously powerful. I wouldn't doubt it being a fire dragon, especially since they did make that allusion in one of the recent anime episodes: "Dragon of Ice vs Dragon of Fire" or something like that. However, the main reason I think Yamamoto hasn't challenged Aizen is that he knows even he is susceptible to Aizen's hypnosis, as far as we know. --Liamxblazeneyes 11:30, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Yamamoto Does have a bankai. Yoruichi said that all of the current captains, except for Kenpachi, have bankais. Dracinking 22:53, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Of course he has a bankai. We all know that Kenpachi is the only captain that never developed his bankai. My random thought just happened to be, similarly to Captain Brooks, that the Soukyoku would have been a great bankai for him. It just wouldn't really make sense for him to seal away his bankai for that purpose. More likely it was the work of many many kido practitioners working together to create and seal the Soukyoku anyway. --Liamxblazeneyes 19:48, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

As far as I remembered, Genryuusai released his shikai only against Shunsui and Ukitake, the other times it was only the zampakuto's sealed form, does he really needed to release it. My guess is that the Sokyouku phoenix could be a part of Ryuujin Jakka's ability which was sealed by Kido for the purpose. His bankai could be the size of the Sun (descending to Earth and burns the sky and heavens to ashes), or a compressed one (like Ichigo's), or why not makes Ryuujin Jakka revealing its human form and doubling Yamamoto, or another ability that makes Yamamoto immortal like the phoenix (that would explain why he is so old). That makes a lot of guess, but wait and see..Ace of Spade 22:00, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Stronger/Strongest Bankai so far
This was getting a bit long, but feel free to continue the discussion here. --Yyp 12:42, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Komamura's bankai is extremely strong, but he has to actually hit something for that to work. He owned Poww easily coz he was too slow to dodge. Ichigo would run rings around him.

I have to that Ichigo's bankai is the strongest so far. Ichigo's bankai is the bestest on for combat. Ichigo could beat Senbonzakura Kageyoshi and Daiguren Hyōrinmaru because he could dogne their attacks.Flaminghorse December 2, 2009 (UTC)

I think probably the best Bankai in my opinion would have to be Tosen's. Simply because it removes all of your senses except for feel, so you can feel the blade piercing your skin. Just to be in that situation would be absolutely terrifying in its own right, let alone someone walking around stabbing you. KamikazeNewf 17:50, December 3, 2009 (UTC)

Come on... Tousen's bankai was trashed by Kenpachi who doesn't even have a bankai. Out of all the currently shown bankais i would say tensa zangetsu is the strongest. Also am a fan of daiguren hyorinmaru purely due to the no of attacks he gains in bankai. Kishen1912 06:40, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Tosen's Bankai is by far the best. He didn't use it to its full potential against Kenpachi, but he did use it to its full potential in the Turn Back the Pendulum Arc. Its a Bankai meant for quick, rapid killing, not slow torturous murder (what he did against Kenpachi) lol Grimmjow2 11:17, December 19, 2009 (UTC)

Tosens bankai is good, only reason he got beaten is because Kenpachi is a freakishly good and fighting and certainly no stranger to pain endurance. Personally,I think it is Ichigo's as far as general combat goes. It's well rounded, has a long range attack, and enhances all of his abilities as well. As stated by Flaminghorse, he could run rings around most larger bankai(like renjis, komamuras,etc.).--Ulquiorra Wannabe128 18:55, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Personaly, i dont think there is a strongest bankai, there are the many different types, and that eludes to the fact that certain bankai's will be designed to defeat certain people. one example of this is Byakuya's bankai. While renji is incapable of defeating his captain, partly due to the fact that his bankai is way to slow, Ichigo's bankai seems to be specially designed to defeat byakuya. Another example of this is during the fight between tosen and kenpachi. while kenpachi did not use bankai, his abilities seemed perfectly designed to defeat tosen's bankai. Just a thought....... [Captain of squad 0]

I'm not shure if tosen's bankai is the strongest one, it's definetly on the top 5, but I believe that there are some bankais strongers than tosen's. Such as Byakuya's, it is supposedly indefensible, TK made it look like only one massive attack, but the blades are independent, in other words you can't block it with a sword(that is what happend sometimes), the only way is run. Another strong bankai is mayuri's and it's poison, if you stay near him you'll die, as if it wasn't powerfull enough, there it is a giant monster with hundreds swors that can run to you and destroy everything in it's way. But the best part is the poison mist anyways. In my opinion this two Bankais would beat Tosen's, the space is small, byakuya could just spread his blades around and it would hit Tosen, who in Mayuri's case wouldn't have where to run. Noyas 02:30, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo, less than VC level bankai
I know that he has had this and that problem (hollow taking over etc) but Ichigo's Bankai is seriously weak as of late, not to mention his shikai.

cconsidering Ichigo is thought of as a captain class soul reaper and has reiatsu comparable or greater than Aizen his bankai is seriously lacking. He couldn't even deal with a one armed battered Grimmjow in Bankai, the highest level any sould reaper can attain. Maybe i'm missing crucial details about each fight he's been in but ever since about half way through his fight with Byakuya it seems like his Bankai is only comparable to a VC's shikai... if that! Nick D Wolfwood 10:36, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

-- I sort of have to agree that Ichigo's Bankai hasn't been shown in its best light recently. Its become a victim of Tito Kubo having to show how awesome his latest villain is or how great Ichigo's new Vizard powers are in comparison.

Despite this I still think Ichigo's bankai shows a acceptable range of power and flexibility for a captain class Bankai. His speed increases to the point where he outpaces Byakuya (a flashstep master). He can send out arcs of energy that act as both a terrifically powerful energy blast or as a instant force shield. He can take that energy and focus it many times through his blade so a slash from Ichigo's zanpakuto becomes nearly unstoppable and deadly.

As Bankais go I think Ichigos ranks solidly in the upper half of Captain Bankais for versatility and power. It is preferable to Soifon's or Ikkaku's Bankai by a long shot. It compares favorably to Komamara's Bankai. I think Byakuya and Hitsugaya's Bankai are more powerful due to sheer flexibility rather than raw power but head-on that flexibility doesn't automatically translate into superiority over Ichigo's bankai.

This is highly subjective of course but the point is that I think Ichigo has a good, solid Bankai for a captain-class combatant despite its sidelining. Great Cthulhu 14:52, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

I think the sudden weakness of ichigo bankai is a way of showing his heart and attitude. When he was fighting yammy he was doing it to protect his friend chad and he was doing very well, taking a whole arm off until hollow ichigo stepped in. After that his heart wasn't into any of his fights and replace with fear that ended up wtih him getting creamed. He wasn't doing all to well in the grimmjow release fight until inoune told him not to get hurt anymore and he stepped up to protect her. Then against number 4, when his heart really got into it he went all super powerful. This is my theory of course and I'm sure I'm forgetting some moment that might disprove my idea, and I'm open to critics.

Well.....has anyone noticed Ichigo HAS to do bankai? he can hardly fight anyone without doing bankai, and he has to go hollow after that.byakuya easily beat zommari and ichigo took such a loooooong time to beat someone only one rank above zommari. Ichigo is supposed to have double captain reiatsu, so why is it he needs to go bankai every time he fights and most other captains use shikai or even sealedd? (go kyoraku!!)12yungo 12:39, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing that's because Ichigo hasn't even had nearly half the training all the other Captains had. I mean, Kyoraku was around forever, it seems, Byakuya has been training since about 100 years before the storyline now and Hitsugaya gets stronger every time we see him fight. Now, I don't know how long the story has progressed since Ichigo became a (Substitute) Shinigami, but it won't be much longer then a year or 1-2. Compare that to 100+ years training (or less, when we're talking about Hitsugaya), and I'm not surprised he needs to put a lot more effort in his fights then any other Captain, who even seem to hold back (Soifon vs Ggio Vega, for instance). UnitRico 13:03, January 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's actually about eight or so month . Rukia went to the world of the living beginning of spring. Ichigo went to Soul Society during summer break and gained bankai. The current battles are taking place in Autumn. So Ichigo only gained his own shinigami powers and bankai during summer, since he was using Rukia's power before, so that's less then six months he has had Zangetsu. I have said it multiple times that Ichigo is horribly, horribly unstable. Because of this, he's performance is unpredictable and on occasion his bankai and his mask are just for show and doesn't have the power behind it that it should. No doubt once becomes stable he will be very, very, very powerful. But right now... meh. Tinni   (Talk)  13:11, January 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * While answering a question I went back and looked at the bleach timeline again and it seems I overestimated the time Ichigo has had his powers. Ichigo became a shinigami in April of the year Bleach story is taking place in. Let's say 2001 since that's when Bleach started. Ichigo gained zengetsu in July. Went to Seireitei and gained his bankai in the Auguest of that year. The battle of Fake Karakura Town is taking place in October. So all in all, the story of Bleach has spanned a total of seven months, with Ichigo having a "grasp" of his power for about three or so months, since having training from Urahara Kisuke. Tinni   (Talk)  08:02, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

We also have to keep in mind that because he doesn't have anywhere near as much training or experience, he doesn't have the confidence in knowing exactly what he can do all the time. Kyoraku has indeed been around forever, as well as Ukitake, so they're fully aware of what they're capable of, and how to implement their abilities. Ichigo is bound to be unstable: he has immense power, which is even still developing, and he's had barely any time to test it out. I'm surprised he actually beat Grimmjow with as few injuries as he received. --Liamxblazeneyes 21:07, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

These are all true points. Somewhere along the lines people have gotten it into their heads that Ichigo is some all powerful character. Though this is false for a number of reasons having to do with age, experience, skill, training, emotional control, spiritual energy control, unwillingness to fight or finish off foes. There are a number of things counting against him despite the fact that he is horribly new to all this and its been a learn as you go training regime. Then there is the concept of having bankai. Yes he has it is it the most powerful not by any means though it seems to allow the ability to be extremely fast. Did he learn bankai buy his own skill and training, some would argue yes and others no. Has he had experience in using his bankai yes, but as Tinni points out it has been 8 months of experience in comparison to most wielders who have years of use and training in bankai or in swordsmanship alone. In fact considering his most recent fights its quite clear that he uses his bankai almost all the time when for most captains its a last resort after they tire out all their other skills. Not to mention he can't seem to defeat anyone with his bankai without use of his hollow mask. As Tinni has stated his spiritual pressure as vast as it is fluctuates unstably and his lack of control over it leaves his incapable of utilizing his abilities to their fullness. Hitsugaya probably isn't a good example as for considering how young he is (by shinigami standards) he is a child prodigy and considerably one of the most powerful captains (Assuming you can judge a captain like that) hyorinmaru is the most powerful ice zanpakuto in all of soul society and even with his power immature he is still exceedingly powerful and will (according to shunsui possibly be even more powerful then him in 100 years time). Not to mention Hitsugaya is a captain with all the skills that come with it and great control over his spiritual power even with say about possibly 80-50 years of experience. The same cant be said for ichigo in any level, his own achieving of bankai isn't even by natural skill. Besides its increase and speed and allowing for longer use its pretty much useless compared to others unique abilities. He can fight with it longer and is faster but that only goes so far. The versatility isn't really there even with Renji and Ikkaku there is room for improvement but Ichigo is limited to (speed enhancement, extended bankai duration, enhanced getsuga tensho) though as we have seen he cant get anywhere with it, unless he wears his hollow mask and even then its iffy. Salubri (Talk)  21:49, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

ichigo's bankai gives him far more skills then his shikai, as his speed is possibly at captain level then, but comparing him to a captain or a vc is quite hard because he can't do kido and he only has ggetsuga, if he were to get more training (at least time to practice) then he could maybe use his shikai like hichigo does and not have to use his bankai as much. also since getting back from the soul society he has only fought 2 weak hollows who were not espada or former espada(not counting his hollow mask training) and he has fought both with only his shikai, as well the espada are roughly captain level, and most of them were far faster then him so bankai made sense so he could keep up with them, yami was far stronger then ichigo (in physical strengh) so taking a hit would not be a good idea so instead, he took advantage of yami's slowness and his bankai's far faster speed--Bluegetsuga 22:12, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

So again ichigo - now at full power atfter Retsu recharged him - has gone for Aizen who is still standing around without any kind of release or special power on show besides a shielding Kido at his back and he is totally outclassed. Aizen is moving faster than Ichigo can keep up and only didn't lose the plot thanks to about 20 bodyguards timely stepping in. so he has attacked Aizen with New mask and all and i am not suprised to see his one attack was ineffective. I think SS should pat him on the shoulder, say "that's enough young scamp" and let the Commander toast Aizens arse. Now there must be a fearsome Bankai!!!!!Nick D Wolfwood 17:36, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

But you have to remember Kubo's style. The end of Aizen will probably be a ridiculously long battle between Ichigo and Aizen, Ichigo looks like he's gonna get owned, but then he either gets a new, stupid skill or he says something like 'I WILL PROTECT MY FRIENDS, blah blah blah etc.'Bye bye Aizen.

yungo, remember to sign your posts.

Last chapter was a disappointment; we're all ready for Ichigo to go hell-for-leather on Aizen, and what do we get? A couple of GT's that never looked like hitting. He wouldn't use his Hollow Mask coz he didn't want to lose control, and couldn't find the motivation to use his full power...gimme a break; this is all-or-nothing, so stop being such an old lady Ichigo.

Well, there's 3 months that none of us will get back...TomServo101 10:25, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo's Bankai being weak, I think that it is at least fair. If you thin well, a shinigami spent I don't know how many years in the academy to become one of those unseated officers that can't not even activate shikai,but ichigo activated bankai in a few months. In My point, it's fair enough that he can't use it well. Noyas 04:06, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Becoming a captain without bankai
Moved from Forum:Sōsuke_Aizen_(Volume_2) because it went off topic. Tinni  (Talk)  01:23, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Tinni I know what your saying but...isnt it odd that there are 3 methods to become a Captain and1 of the 3 have been used once by Kenpachi Zaraki and the other method (reccomendation) has never been used..?!Captain Brooks 23:04, February 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Firstly, that's besides the point. Yoruichi said rather clearly that the only captain in the history of soul society to become captain without bankai is Zaraki Kenpachi. So, seriously, from now on I will instantly revert any mention of Captain not-called-Zaraki-Kenpachi not having bankai. Frankly, it's getting kind of annoying. Secondly, do you have any idea how hard it would be to get "recommendations from at least six captains and approval from at least three of the remaining seven"? To begin with, you would have to be known to at least six captains and they have to know you and your skills well enough to risk their reputation to recommend that you lead your own division. I would think that many of those captains would insist you have bankai before they recommend you because unless you are Zaraki Kenpachi, just having Shikai just doesn't cut it and you'll probably get killed and your role taken over by Shinigami X, should Shinigami X have bankai or even a shikai that's better then yours.
 * Where did this notion originate that the recommendation route was someone easier then getting bankai? It's not. Just think of the ten captains who are currently active in the Gotei 13. Can you see 9 of those 10 captains agreeing that "Oh! Shinigami A is a wonderful chap and would make a great captain, let's promote him!" Hell, if you went to Zaraki to ask for approval, he'll probably challenge you to a fight and tell you he'll recommend you if you win. Mayuri would tell you to get lost and that's he's busy. Soifon would wonder why a person who is too inadequate to pass the captain's exam want's to become captain. Byakuya would say about the same thing. Hitsugaya is not likely to be impressed either and Unohana and Kyoraku have been around for too long to lightly recommend or approve anyone. Only Ukitake might give his recommendation if you are a nice enough person. Even Komamura is unlikely to give his recommendation easily. So in short, the reason that method has never been used is because THAT'S THE HARDEST METHOD BY WHICH TO BECOME A CAPTAIN. Getting bankai is alot easier then getting nine people to like you and trust you enough to recommend you AND there is no saying, those nine people wouldn't not have "has bankai" as a criteria for recommendation either. Tinni   (Talk)  00:44, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

A simple "No it is not odd because if you think about it; you have to be really well known, trustworthy, and skillful in order to be even recommended by one captain; let alone six!." would have sufficed; but thank you nonetheless.

"I would think that many of those captains would insist you have bankai before they recommend you because unless you are Zaraki Kenpachi, just having Shikai just doesn't cut it and you'll probably get killed and your role taken over by Shinigami X, should Shinigami X have bankai or even a shikai that's better then yours." What gives you the impression that besides Zaraki; there is a Captain who is savage enough to become "Captain by the trial by combat method"? I don't remember it being said that if someone has a stronger shikai or even a bankai (which you do not possess), you will lose your captaincy... Captain Brooks 01:03, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

sigh Zaraki Kenpachi is not the first captain to become captain through trial by combat. According to Shinji, ALL captains of the 11th Division have been appointed through trial by combat. Which is why the only person who had a problem with the manner of Kenpachi becoming captain was Tosen. Besides which, if you are weak, there will always be an ambitious git willing to buck you off and take your place. Heck, it might not even be motivated by ambition. If a captain is seen as weak and not able to protect his men or hold his own with the other captains, said captain would lose the respect of his men and another shinigami might feel that it is his duty to step in and give the division the strong leader that it deserves. Which again reinforces why the recommendation route is so hard. Unless you are a very charismatic and inspiring leader, most captains wouldn't trust you to be able to make the squad follow you should you just get the position through recommendation. Heck, think of how much problem Urahara had, or even Amagai, establishing his authority and he became captain through the most common method. A method that carries with it some assurance that you are skilled and powerful Tinni   (Talk)  01:23, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

I was reading and I realized that Zaraki is the only current captain to become captain by that method.. my fault. I know Im going off topic here but: shouldnt the 6 captains that were shown in "The sealed sword frenzy" be put into the wikia? Captain Brooks 01:45, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

I hate forums but just to point something out Tinni your a bit off about what was said. It is noted in the conversation between Shinji and Love that the 10th Kenpachi killed the 9th as per the rules to become captain. Shinji mentions that just because he is the 10th no one has the marbles to stand up to him and he wonders how they let a loose cannon like him become captain. Love responds by stating that there is no point in bent out of shape about it as the a kenpachi has always held the 11th division captains position. He then says its sort of like a legacy that wont change anytime soon. He then tells Shinji that if he wants to get mad about anything get mad that the previous kenpachi's failure made it possible. So just for the sake of accuracy they were in fact talking mostly about the significance of the title kenpachi and how the captain of the 11th division is always the one with the title kenpachi. From both shinji and love it is insinuated that the current kenpachi took out the previous one to gain the position. Not at one time was it ever said that this method is common in the Gotei 13 or in the 11th Division. Now as far as what Yoruichi said, Kenpachi is the only one in the history of soul society who has become a captain without even knowing the name of his zanpakuto. Now as far as the 3 methods. It is a situation of knowledge. Something that like alot of bleach we do not possess. To date we know of how Urahara became a captain (via test) and how kenpachi became a captain (via combat) and if you include Amagai then (via test). The point is we have no idea what methods any one of the the other captains have used. we can probably surmise that they by and large majority attained their positions via test. Recommendations maybe possible as well. In the long history of Gotei 13 and Soul Society there may have been many captains attaining positions all kinds of ways among the 3. Though it seems just as likely to reason that the one via combat is highly rare and unheard of as a method as even to the shinigami (as old and long lived as they are) they seem to regard it as barbaric. It exists but doesn't seem to be used adding more weight to the fact that kenpachi gained his position. But i digress, i just wanted to point that out, sorry to bust into your forum conversation. Salubri (Talk)  01:51, February 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I thought the anime translation had Shinji say something like that's how the squad is setup but you are right, they could just have been referring to the fact that the squad is setup to be run by Kenpachies. Address your other Captain Brooks, no, unnamed shinigami who only appear for a few seconds in a filler cannot be added since we don't know anything about them. Tinni   (Talk)  02:00, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

I see. I wonder if Tessai had to do a similar exam to become Kido captain, I´m guessing he did. Captain Brooks 05:01, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

I might be wrong, but didn't Kisuke get promoted by the recommendation method? I clearly remember it being mentioned that Yoruichi recommended Kisuke for the captaincy, which makes perfect sense, seeing as she was his superior officer. And as we all know, there is only one method out of the three that requires the recommendation of a captain. Then again, I could swear that the captain proficiency test was also mentioned... bah, that's just my scatterbrain going off again. Mohrpheus 18:36, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Mohrpheus- Urahara was formally recommended by Yoruichi, but her recommendation by itself is meaningless (so to speak anyway). There is probably a process by which someone is eligible for the test, such as that a current Captain has to invite/recommend you. But he was not recommended by a majority of the current Captains which is the third way that you can become a captain. So in essence, his formal acceptance as a Captain was because of his test, but how get invited to take the exam has more to do with Yoruichi's recommendations (unless I'm wrong).

Tinni...to comment on your post WAY above, I definitely believe that aizen has bankai, it would seem ridiculous to think he doesnt considering his knowledge and reiatsu, however, I give some credence to the speculation that he may have been recommended to be a captain instead of taking the exam BECAUSE of his zanpaktou. If it can truly do what it has already proven to do in the SS arc (making people believe things that are obviously false), there is no reason he couldnt of used it to make at least 6 of the current Captains believe he is strong enough to take the exam and subsequently recommend him toward Captaincy. He did fake shikai so convincingly that everyone assumed it was a water-type right? Why couldnt he have simulated a bankai or a reiatsu level far surpassing necessary for a Captain? Again, no argument here that he probably did get there through the regular means and that he has a bankai, but you've mentioned it before, that there are crazy wild speculations based on his shikai's abilities, but I think that is rightfully so if it is that powerful. Orionradar 19:25, February 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you are failing to understand why the "no bankai" theory is so annoying. It's not just Aizen, people have made the comment about Yamamoto (actually, the comment was made in one of the discussions above), Unohana, basically any captain who hasn't shown bankai yet. Sofion was a VERY popular target for the "no bankai" theory until she showed her bankai. In addition, when a guy says "I have reached the limits of the shinigami body" and has godhood as his avowed goal. He has bankai. I will accept that Aizen didn't demonstrate his true bankai, assuming that demonstration of bankai does form part of the captain's test, but Aizen "not having bankai" will not be discussed here. There are plenty of forums that entertain every crack and junk theory that pops into peoples heads. This is not one of them. I repeat, any further mention of captains not named Zaraki Kenpachi not having bankai will be reverted on sight. Tinni   (Talk)  02:18, February 9, 2010 (UTC)