Talk:Ichigo Kurosaki/Archive 2

Tensa Zangetsu
SunXia 21:40, June 23, 2010 (UTC) [[Image:Tensa Zangetsu Face.png|thumb|left|Chapter 409.]]

It will be determined later whether or not this pic will be placed in the powers and abilities section until such time anything placed there will be removed. Salubri (Talk)  21:42, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

If we do, I'd suggest having both images. Not sure if in the profile image or not, but if we go for that, we should pan both images together. Another possible option is to put a second spirit template for Tensa Zangetsu below Zangetsu's, as Zangetsu himself stated that he appears the way he does because Ichigo entered his Inner World in Bankai mode. Arrancar109 (Talk)  22:54, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

If anything it should be featured in the article or split within the profile image there is no room for it be placed in a who other template. Salubri (Talk)  23:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

I woudln't have entered it into t he Article without permission, I just had a buzz and uploaded the picture then remembered we can't touch Ichigo due to the amount of spam that goes on in his profile so I just thought I'd put it here as a heads up!! SunXia 17:49, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Hollow Mask
Why does the Hollowfication section show Ichigo's old Hollow mask as opposed to the new one?--暗闇の門番 - "Gatekeeper of Darkness" (言うことを何かを得た - "You got something to say?") 23:40, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

The anime has not shown his latest mask yet and the one there now is a really good shot of just the mask--God (Pray)  23:47, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oh. Makes enough sense.--暗闇の門番 - "Gatekeeper of Darkness" (言うことを何かを得た - "You got something to say?") 23:52, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

''Not anymore, I've just uploaded a good picture of the new mask straight from the anime; problem is the protection prevents me from placing it. So the rest is up to you guys. Xeras''

Tensa Zangetsu
It seems as though the chain on Tensa Zangetsu has lengthened that it wraps around his arm in the new chapter. Is this something we add now to Ichigo's Zanpakuto or will we wait until next chapter when there is more information? --Shinitenshi (talk) 00:24, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

We would have to know whats going on before we can actually add it. Right now all we know is that is much longer then normal and wrapped around his arm, the significance of this is still unknown as of yet. --Salubri (Talk)  00:33, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

It looks as though something is attached to Ichigo's right arm at or where his wrist should be; that plus the fact you can see all of that arm except for the hand, and the outline of what is there looks a little thin as compared the to rest of his arm. Dontjuststandthere (talk) 01:17, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

This is nothing new, we have known that his shikai cloth extends and contracts to his will and Hollow Ichigo showed the same for the bankai chain--God (Pray)  01:43, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

This is new: the chain is longer than his body!

Jinzen is how a person masters their Bankai. It's pretty much safe to assume that the lengthened chain represents his mastery since he's standing before Aizen. Kaihedgie (talk) 07:47, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Is it just me or Ichigo's hair got longer as well? DontCallMeCrazy (talk) 22:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

His does seem a little longer, but I doubt it has anything to do with the bankai. Three months is plenty of time for someone's hair to grow out that much. Mohrpheus (talk) 23:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

It's definately changed, because the manji on the hilt/guard is completely different, too. But we should wait until the change is explained until adding anything about it, so we don't have to do a lot of back editing and correcting...Gerokeymaster (talk) 23:22, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

The end of his bankai chain seems to be connected to/pierced his arm.http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/24565756/3 Near arm pit.Umishiru (talk) 10:45, August 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * No it does not. It wraps around it, but does not pierce or join it. 11:32, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

i mentioned this in the Deicide 19 blog but i dont think many people saw it so im reposting here where i think it belongs anyhowi was looking closely at tensa and i really dont see the handle on it and the chain seems to be coming off the glove not the handleKensei24 (talk) 19:42, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

The crossguard has changed slightly as well. I wonder what it is; maybe Ichigo learnt how to fully realese his bankai? DontCallMeCrazy (talk) 19:36, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Age
I think we should note somewhere that he isn't 16 anymore. Judging by his hair length and Isshin's beard growing longer, time obvious passed a great deal while in the Dangai. I doubt Ichigo is 16, but then again, this is speculation. Though, it is painfully obvious, and I'm sure many will agree with me on this note. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity 23:49, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

From what Isshin said in the chapter where he explained the dangai's time/space powers, he could only stop it from consuming them for three months, so we should assume the amount of time they were in there was at most...three months ^_^ Also, Ichigo's hair and Isshin's hair/beard aren't really that grown out. It looks like a couple of months worth of growth, at best. If they were in for a year or more, Isshin would be starting to look like Yama and Ichigo would look like his hollow...Gerokeymaster (talk) 23:54, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Isshin said he could hold it for 3 months, which is plenty of time for hair to grow out, as well as for a full beard to grow on a man who has not shaved within that time. There is nothing to support Ichigo being 17 or older; additionally, Ichigo is fighting Aizen in October and his birthday is in July. Another 6 months would have to pass in order for anyone to consider Ichigo older. Arrancar109 (Talk)  23:58, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Powers & Abilities
Should the section be updated to reflect his recent power-up? Or should we wait for a while to see the full extent of his new abilities? Dok (talk) 03:18, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

It would be best to wait as the only thing we can really say is that Aizen can't sense his reiatsu and update the description of his bankai--God (Pray)  03:22, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

New Arc
{{Discussion Closed}] We are in a new arc already. All the stuff in Karakura Town after the Fake Karakura Battles should be moved.

Based on this interview:

http://forum.mangastream.com/showthread.php?t=5781

"The next arc will take place in Karakura town."Umishiru (talk) 10:21, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

From Kubo's point of view (The only one that matters here) everything since Shinji was introduced it's part of the "Arrancar Arc", to him there's no such thing as a "Fake Karakura Town Arc" or "Hueco Mundo Arc" so I doubt he was refering to what is currently happening now. He's probably refering to what will happen after we're done with Aizen.ItzBlitz (talk) 04:17, August 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thing is, even before Deicide started, none of the main Arrancar are alive/present, nor is the focus on Hueco Mundo anymore. So it's very possible that the Arrancar arc is over already. Mohrpheus (talk) 04:27, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Zangetsu
On the section about zangetsu, should we also add a picture of Tensa zangetsu (the guy, not the sword)? Hardly worth the effort. 14:36, August 26, 2010 (UTC)

Spiritual Pressure
Does it remain under "Vast" now? I mean, from Chapter 417, it looks like he's mastered it, although official word hasn't come out. <font color="dark grey" face="Candara">BlazeUchiha <font color="red" face="Eurostile">(Talk)  18:23, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

although official word hasn't come out. You said it yourself. We can't speculate that he knows how to control it; we have no idea why nobody could sense it. Mohrpheus (talk) 18:28, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

As Morpheus said, it is speculation to say anything. For all we know, everyone just lost their ability to sense Reiatsu--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  18:38, August 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well we know it's not that, seeing as Tatsuki said that she could sense Aizen's overbearing reiatsu and yet nothing from Ichigo, but I see where you're coming from. I wonder; is it clear yet if we are in a new arc? Surely we aren't in the Fake Karakura Town arc anymore, since the past couple of chapters have all been in the Real Karakura Town.  <font #800080">~ <font color="#800080">~ <font color="#008000">Ten <font color="#000080">Tailed <font color="#808000">Fox   <span style="cursor:help;" title="Go to Ten Tailed Fox&lt;span _rte_entity=">' s Talk Page." _rte_attribs=" style=cursor:help; title=Go to Ten Tailed Fox's Talk Page."&gt;<font color="#800080">&lt; <font color="#800080">t <font color="#800080">al <font color="#800080">k <font color="#800080">&gt; 20:28, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * The admins have decided to not change it quite yet until it becomes perfectly clear that this arc is not just an extension of FKT--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  20:37, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Unusual Features
Just a small thing, but shouldn't Ichigo's orange hair be noted under the Unusual features part of his character template? Especially since it is actually remarked as being unusual in the source material. Mohrpheus (talk) 21:26, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Done. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  13:36, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

You keep calling Ichigo a "human" ...
But it's becoming increasingly clear that this probably isn't the case. He's certainly HALF human (since there's no reason to think his mother was anything else), but we don't really know what Isshin is yet, do we? All indications are that he used to be a full on shinigami, which means he died at some point, which means he can't really be a normal person. Don't know necessarily whether it's something worth going through, and since it hasn't been resolved yet, it might be premature, but it's something to think about, especially since there's likely to be some exposition coming from Aizen (who seems to know more about Ichigo than Ichigo does) in the next few chapters.Lemikam (talk) 17:08, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

The fact of the matter is that Ichigo is alive. He has a body and while his father may be a Shinigami, this still makes him human. There is no other species in Bleach that is alive and has human features. Ichigo is human.--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  17:11, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

I have a suggestion, In Ichigo species, why dont you split it into two section, One for Spiritual and the other for the normal self. When in a Spiritual body he can be a Vizard and in the Normal body he can be a Human. Haruhiisme (talk) 17:21, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

There is nothing confusing about the way we have it set up. It's fine the way it is. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  17:23, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

I am not arguing about the way it is setup, I am just suggesting since Ichigo is a "Special" Case character who is a Shinigami and a Human. But I guess you are right, why change what is not broken ? Haruhiisme (talk) 17:26, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Of-course he is still human when did he died, he only gain shinigami power/abilities by Rukia, lost it to Byakuya, then gain it back with the help of Urahara, which he gain another power... to split it into 2 section would be more confusing, while it has been that way for years.Soulreaper1234 (talk) 17:56, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Thats not really accurate. Firstly he is only human because he possesses an actual human body that he can go back to. Unlike average souls that have died and cannot return to their human body or Shinigami who no longer have a body at all so they use created facsimiles called Gigai which work the same way as an actual physical body. Secondly he gained his original power from being given most or Rukia's when Byakuya came he took those powers by destroying their source. He then went through shattered shaft training and gained powers that where truly his own which he always had secretly hidden within him. In that training he gained Hollow powers at the same moment he gained Shinigami powers. He is predominately Shinigami and the gained powers of the hollow as the inner hollow asserted itself more. Thus making him a Vizard. Species-wise and group wise as determined by the Vizards themselves and Ichigo himself. Though on numerous occasions he all still considers himself human or shinigami depending on the situation which confuses people. Just making that point clear.--<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  18:12, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

I think that just about all of you have missed the point I was trying to make. I'm not saying that he's something other than human because he has a spirit form with shinigami powers. I'm saying he's something other than human because his father was, presumably, already dead when Ichigo was conceived. In other words, Isshin is pretty clearly something other than an ordinary human, and if Isshin isn't human, then Ichigo - his biological son - also isn't all human. I'm not saying he's part ghost because he has two bodies. I'm saying he's part ghost because his father was a ghost. To call him a Vizard misses the issue. His living, physical body was fathered by a ghost is what I'm saying. Which makes him something other than human. Lemikam (talk) 06:54, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

ok we have been through this argument before. Such a thing doesn't make sense you can't be part soul part human. They are two completely different worlds of existence not two different species. All humans all have some spiritual aspect to them, nothing has been noted of Ichigo to make him any different from Orihime or Keigo prior to dealing with Shinigami. The only difference he has because Isshin is his father is a vast amount of spiritual power and the potential to become a Shinigami that most souls dont necessarily have from birth. Having said that when Ichigo was conceived Isshin was well over no longer being a Shinigami or possessing any powers and was living in a gigai which is basically a artificially created body, capable of passing as a human body with all the complete functions. Therefore for all purposes Isshin was human biologically. So saying he is part "ghost" as you say doesn't make any logical sense. Either someone is a spirit or a living being they can't be both at the same time. As I said its a matter of different forms of existence not species at this point. Now one can say a Vizard/Shinigami/Hollow or Arrancar are different species as they are all spiritual beings, human is something they all where originally at some point previous to that spiritual existence which they cease to be after becoming spiritual beings and no longer having a living physical form. --<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  08:15, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Such a thing makes perfect sense - you just don't agree with it. I'm not saying he's half soul and half human, I'm saying he's half whatever-Isshin-is and half human. If there's already been a consensus reached that Isshin was in a gigai when Ichigo was conceived (a reasonable, if unproved, assumption) and that the difference between a gigai and a human for genetic purposes is unimportant (another reasonable, if unproved, assumption) then that's fine. I didn't realize the discussion had already been had. It doesn't appear on the talk page. I'm just questioning those two assumptions (that Isshin is in a gigai and that gigais are human for reproductive purposes). Neither seem terribly obvious to me. Lemikam (talk) 06:37, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't going to get involved but enough is enough. Lemikam there is no such thing as a half-shinigami in the bleach universe. That term has no citable source. In fact, the only thing said about Ichigo was that he was a Shinketsu or true blood. He was called that by Grand Fisher. That pretty much it. If and when someone calls him a half-shinigami. We'll entertain your argument. As it is, this baseless speculation has gone on long enough. Ichigo was referred to as a human in the manga, he was referred to as a vizard in the manga. He was not referred to as a half-shinigami, indeed, no such term exists in the Bleach universe. I am closing this discussing. Tinni  (Talk)  07:11, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Bankai - New Powers
Um, shouldn't it be noted that Ichigo's strength and spiritual power seem (are for a better word) different now? His Bankai section seems the same as its always been. Hell, not even the new picture is listed there. We've seen two chapters with Ichigo's new prowess now, so why isn't anything changed yet? --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity 19:22, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

We really do not know what he is capable of yet. All we know is that his sword swing made a giant crater. You can add that in if you want just reference it. Other than that we have nothing--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  19:24, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

yeah someone added new content of ichigos lates strenth increase in the enhanced strenth section but since hes only done these things in bankai shoudounlt it be added there insteadPeinuchiha (talk) 21:31, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

yeah umm i went ahead and moved it there wondering if its of if not them im sorry i just thoght it would be better to have it therePeinuchiha (talk) 21:31, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Putting it there would mean only his bankai gained power. Do you believe that if he went down to shikai he would only be as strong as he was before the dangai?--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  21:37, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

no problably not but the stuff there hes only done in bankai not shikaiPeinuchiha (talk) 22:31, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Its not in his shikai section, it is in his powers and abilities section where it rightfully belongs--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  22:32, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

eveything there technecally counts as shikai because its what he can do before he enhances himself with bankai or his holloficationPeinuchiha (talk) 22:50, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Peinuchiha - the way the powers and abilities section works is that it has a genral overview of all his powers at max. Then we have a section about his zanpakuto. Within that we have his shikai and his bankai. The point of the Shikai and Bankai sections is to state specifically what each adds to Ichigo in terms of power and the mechanisms through which they do this. The recent growth in Ichigos power goes in the general bit as it talks of his growth in overall strength particularly, when the extent of his new bankai powers are revealed they will be put in his bankai section along with how the bankai works to achieve this new power (this will hopefully be explained in the future). To sum up the bankai section is there to explain how the bankai works. GinIchimaru (talk) 22:56, September 5, 2010 (UTC)

Aizens description of Ichigo's new power
Hey, i was wondering whether for the moment we should include Aizens explanation of Ichigos new power as being a fact. He states that Ichigo's strength comes from discarding his reiatsu and so should we say in the powers and abilities section that "Ichigo has apparently thrown away his vast reiatsu in return for a vast increase in physical strength". A user previously wrote something akin to this in the article until i removed it as I dont believe this is actually what happened with Ichigo's power and I think the whole point of the recent chapter was to proove that Aizen didn't understand Ichigo's evolution at all. However I'm wondering whether I was right to do this as its been a sort of policy here to go with exactly what is stated in the manga, even if it seems to be a lie or a misdirection. I mean (without bringing up bad memories) with the Rangiku status thing we agreed to state her as deceased, even though most were pretty sure that Gin hadnt killed her, simply because Gin stated that he had killed her. Either way I dont mind what you choose to go with, im only raising the issue so as I know whether to revert future edits that may add in Aizens explanation of Ichigo's new powers. Thanks. GinIchimaru (talk) 05:16, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

I think for now its best to leave that off. Aizen isn't Aizen anymore so he doesn't know everything any longer. I think it was implied that Aizen did not understand Ichigo at all.--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  05:18, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that was my thinking too. GinIchimaru (talk) 05:23, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we will know it in the next chapter. --Cococrash11 (talk) 02:08, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe we will, maybe we won't, the point is it's better to wait until Ichigo himself confirms what his own power is about before adding any new info to the article. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  02:22, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Page Length
As many of you might have noticed, Ichigo's page is very long. I find this very annoying as longer pages take longer to load and can produce mare lag. The anime only sections are hidden by default and i think that it would be a good idea for the other arcs and other sections to make the page more easy to navigate. The same should also be done with other long pagesLight sage96 (talk) 02:08, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

That is entirely counter intuitive. The point of a wiki is to collect the most amount of information as possible and present it in an organized way. Ichigo's page is long because we have so much info on him. To hide it all is stupid and will not be done--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  02:11, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo's page length is long because he's the main character of the entire series, and as a result, the series focuses on him a lot more than the other characters, and he appears in every non-flashback arc. The collapsible sections are only being applied to anime-only arcs, and we're not applying it to manga-canon arcs. There's just no point to it. Even if you did, it would not stop the lag of the page that you want to get rid of. The information would still be there, but just hidden, and the page would still be just as massive, regardless of whether we had the hide option or not. It would just be a pointless modification. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  02:16, September 4, 2010 (UTC)