Forum:Isshin Kurosaki

This is an official thread dedicated to Isshin Kurosaki. Please keep all discussion related to him here. There are a couple of existing topics about him that have been run their course and are now closed. Below you will find links to them. If you wish to continue any of those discussions, do so here, not in the old threads. Also, feel free to start new discussions, but remember to keep the Bleach Wiki:Speculation Policy in mind. -- Yyp (Talk) 09:48, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo and his father
ok i am new to all of this my bother got me into this now tell me Ichigo father is a shinigami right now when is he going or anybody finds out the he Ichigo father when will that come into play i know that only a handful of people nows but when will Ichigo find out

That is a big question. Unfortunately no one knows the answer. so far only Urahara, Ryukan and Kon seem to know that he is a Shinigami. Time runs longer for us a readers then it does in the story. Only about 8 months have gone by in the story will about 8 years have passed in real life. So it has been some time since we found out but not that long in the story. Salubri (Talk)  07:08, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Now that Isshin and Ichigo are fighting Aizen and Gin respectively. I do have one question. Has Isshin ever seen kyoka suigetsu being released ? Because if yes, then i don't think Isshin has any chance of defeating Aizen, now that he has revealed the hogyokou embedded within him. If not, Isshin, given the fact that he is at captain level, along with ichigo could very well take Aizen down. Kishen1912 14:22, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

No one mentioned this, but in the last chapter of BLEACH, Isshin attacked Aizen and the attack he used was Getsuga Tensho. Does anybody find that cool and also intriguing? Ichigo's zanpakuto has the same attack as Isshin or vice versa. I think that says something about the strong bond between father and son. Although, i am surprised that Isshin's zanpakuto isnt the same size as ichigo's but then again, Ichigo was always in his shikai because of his lack of control of his spiritual pressure. so nevermind my last comment. As I was saying, in some weird twisted way, Zangetsu is the bond between Ichigo and Isshin. I mean, Zangetsu is an old man and kind of like Ichigo's guide or mentor in a way that Isshin sometimes lack. Hm, so then how is Isshin's Zangetsu. . . a hot headed teenager? I guess my point of my rant is to think about the bond they share and to understand that this bond is so strong and transcended into a physical zanpakuto. Mimi-soutaicho125 02:15, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

WAIT! Ichigo's shikai is that big zanpakuto he had at the start of the series. It is strange that Isshin's shikai isnt the same size or Ichigo's smaller. They are both captain levels. I just wanted to clear up that misunderstanding. If i didnt i can come back. Mimi-soutaicho125 02:28, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree with that, that wasn't his zanpakuto at all otherwise Urahara wouldn't have been able to destroy it so easily. I think it was just some stand-in based on the powers he stole from Rukia. Anyway back to Isshin, I'm betting since his powers are almost identical to Ichigo's, and Isshin learned Final Getsuga Tensho, and obviously still has shinigami powers, there's hope for Ichigo. Staxeon 0440, October 22 2010 (UTC)

Theory on Isshin's relatives.
I think Isshin is a former member of the Shiba family and somehow lead to the fall of the Shiba house in Soul Society.

Pretty farflung theory but I thought I'd throw it out there...Sata1991 00:38, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

To be a theory it has to be based on something. How do you figure that is a former member of the shiba family. Salubri (Talk)  00:55, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ichigo looks like Kaien, the Shiba family fell from nobility (possibly because Isshin fell in love with Ichigo's mother and left for the human world) Like I said I'm not positive, but it makes sense to me Sata1991 15:13, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Here's the issue. 1.) The Shiba family fell from nobility long ago when Kaien and his sister were still young. Where as Isshin has only been in the human world as a human for the past 20 years. Thus they lost their status anywhere before 110 years ago (when kaien became a lt.) to 9 years after. 2.) Other people make a connection that Ichigo looks like kaien (Ukitake, Rukia, Byakuya) but his own siblings Kukaku and Ganju have never remotely said anything along those lines. Salubri (Talk)  18:00, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ah thanks, I thought they lost it more recently than that.Sata1991 17:56, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Isshin's Zanpakuto
Ive noticed that isshin zanpakuto looks just like ichigos unreleased zanpakutoSasuke exiled 02:01, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

I was just wondering whether anyone else noticed that Isshin's Zanpakuto has the same shape tsuba as Aizen's Zanpakuto. 120324 19:57, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

I've noticed that, as well. I dont think it holds any significance due to the fact numerous Zanpaks have similar tsubas. ToneyB78 18:35, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

The last time i said this the topic got booted out as crack theory... :D Kishen1912 06:10, April 29, 2010 (UTC)

well if everyone was reading the latest manga, isshin uses getsuga tensho. What is everyones opinion on this? Im kind of confused but maybe zangetsu is isshins zanpakto.

i think isshin's zanpakuto is zangetsu as well, think about it ichigo is a substitute soul reaper and there are some things we still don't know about them so i could be that since ichigo isn't a true soul reaper he's just using a copied version of his fathers zanpakuto. i just hope that if that is the case that when isshin does release his that it will have a few differences and not be an exact copy.Soul reaper magnum 06:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, we've seen in Diamond Dust Rebellion (though it isn't canon) that a Zanpakuto can have two masters if they have twin souls. This could be Kubo making that theory canon, or he could just be having Isshin use similar techniques to Ichigo. Who knows? I personally am counting on it being Zangetsu at the moment. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 06:19, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Through further observation on the Isshin's Zanpakuto and Ichigo's Zanpakuto (in its original, non-released form as seen back in the very start of the show), the hilts are exactly the same. They both have the same design, tassels (if that's what you want to call them) and guard are all exactly alike. Of course the only difference is that whenever Ichigo first gained his powers, the sword much much larger. So it would not be completely farfetched to assume that he does in fact possess Zangetsu as well and that Ichigo inherited this ability somehow, which makes me wonder if the Shikai release would be like Zangetsu's or more advanced (not to mention the Bankai...;>_> it would be weird seeing Isshin all Ichigo'd out with the cloak and everything). TVthePunisher 08:44, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Nice observations... however there has to be more to it that kubo will reveal in upcoming chapters Kishen1912 09:04, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but the guard on Ichigo's original zanpakuto does not look like Isshin's - it is a different shape and design. Compare to. Yyp (Talk) 11:50, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry although I wanted to clear the air here, if you look at Isshin's zanpakuto it doesn't show any changes in pattern or guard, no tassels, chains or anything else, so this means they are covered up, probably on purpose to add suspense this means that if you believe that it's sealed it's speculation (I personally hate that term) otherwise that same logic would have applied to Urahara when he used the binding and destruction techniques with his zanpakuto, right.-- SalmanH  (Talk)  09:13, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * At this current time it may or may not be sealed, whenever I was stating the similarities I was referring to the times we have seen it while it was still sealed. Noting the picture of him using the move, while readying the attack and releasing it...you can still see the guard visible. This isn't to say that if his sword is definiately an original Zangetsu, that its Shikai would be the same as Ichigo's form. In fact, it could have its own form entirely...or it could still be sealed. However, all of this is speculation (yeah, the word isn't the best) until the next chapter, in which I'm sure Ichigo would have noticed the use of the move and they'll probably do a showing of Isshin's Zanpakuto (which hopefully will be released). TVthePunisher 09:21, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone else think that isshin's zanpaktou is a constant release type. The tsuba have the same shape as when it was in its sealed form. It would kind of make sense since him and ichigo use the same attack as well. Jordanbobordan88 14:42, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

if i remember, the reason ichigo(and kenpachi)'s zanpakuto doesn't have a sealed form is because they can't control there spiritual pressure enough to seal there zanpakuto. and also if i remember soul reapers that have mastered there zanpakuto can use some of it's abilities while it is still sealed.Soul reaper magnum 18:55, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Correct me if i am wrong... Getsuga Tensho is an attack eats a bit of the user's reiatsu, amplifies and fires... pretty much like a loud-speaker... If a certain person is very skilled, he/she should be able to use a similar attack with their zanpakuto as well... though he/she may chose to call it whatever they wish... in Isshins case he chooses to call it Getsuga Tensho... just my interpretation of the events.. Kishen1912 07:26, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe Isshin's Zanpakuto is able to copy the attack or ability of another Zanpakuto, with some kind of limit I'm sure, and if he is able to do that he may also be able to cancel out an opponents Zanpakuto's powers. The reason I think this is because I doubt that Isshin will have the same Zanpakuto as his son and his power to copy and cancel would be a good way to keep from being hypnotized by Aizen. Also if this were true that would be why Aizen was having so much trouble fighting Isshin because he was unable to hypnotize him and had to rely on the rest of his power. This would also mean that Isshin would have a great amount of Spiritual Energy to be able to wear Aizen down, since Aizen has such a large amount of Spiritual Energy himself. Let me know what you all think about this. Unus7484 20:08, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

I believe that Isshin and Ichigo do share Zangetsu, one Zangetsu tells Ichigo "I hate the rain....." but we havent seen any rain 'inside' Ichigo so maybe it has rained 'inside' Isshin?, and also on the early episodes Tessai noticies something about Ichigo's Zanpaktou the first time he sees it, so maybe Tessai has already seen it before? Destrosadora 1:51, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

i didnt see this part down here about his zanpakuto but as i stated, it could be the manifestation of the bond Isshin and Ichigo share. About Isshin's ability to copy attacks Unus7484, how could he copy an attack he has never seen? Has Isshin ever seen Ichigo use his zanpakuto? If he has, the anime and manga do not elude to that fact but he did know Ichigo's soul reaper status so maybe he has been secretly watching from the sidelines like Urahara. Even Uryuu's dad seems to know a few things. Dad's in this manga/anime are kind of creepy and too secretive. Mimi-soutaicho125 02:24, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

If there is a connection between isshin's and ichigo's zanpaktous, i see a possible foreshadow to it that was very early in the series. I see a striking similarity between isshin's appearance and that of zangetsu. that would help to confirm the connection since zanpaktous and their masters tend to have simmilar looks(zap. is based of the soul of the wielder) so zangetsu not looking like ichigo but like isshin would help to confirm this theory in my opinion.-Superhuman2021 8:09, June 1, 2010 (Central)

I have to admit that, after reading all of the discussion here and from going back and looking at the manga images of Ichigo's and Isshin's sealed Zanpakuto, I was completly wrong about my speculation earlier. One thing I found in the manga is in chapter 63 where Ichigo pulls Zangetsu out of that box; if you look at it you can deffenatly see how Ichigo and Isshins both have the tassels and look very much alike. Not sure how all of this will be explained but cant wait to find out. Unus7484 14:12, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

I've spotted a major issue in Isshin's translated zanpakutou's name. The word '剡月', following Ichigo's zanpakutou's name - Moon cutter, means "Moon sharpener" or "Sharpening Moon", whichever you see fit. But as far as I can tell, "剡" doesn't mean scathing. Master-g 14:22, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

Wound of Isshin
i notice something in the latest.... the wound in the left part of his body.... just when did he got those?? did he get it when aizen uses raikaho?? Frostymoon 8:33, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

yea thts where its from

Sign comments! LintMint 13:36, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Thoughts on Isshin's past
I just want to know what other's ideas are on him. I have developed my own on him. I personally think he was the captain of Squad 10 before Hitsugaya. Squad 10 was the only squad not featured in Turn Back The Pendulum or Masked. And Hitsugaya is known to have not been a captain very long. Does all this sound logical?

Dunno... but i think in the turn back the pendulum arc, it is stated that the captain of Squad 10 died while on duty.... may be isshin was his replacement.. because 100 yrs back hitsugaya was definitely neither in the academy or in the squad lists... Kishen1912 (talk) 14:31, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

Could be. He once had powers, so he could be the leader of squad 10 until he lost them. Just a guess. Magedude299 8:13 AM, December 20, 2010 (West US time)

Isshin Definitely A Vice Captain (Captain Class Capabilities)?
It is fact that he said he is a Captain-Class Shinigami, maybe in terms of capabilities, but after reviewing all the current Vice-Captains and or Ex Vice-Captains, the way their wears their Division Badge, strapped on the left shoulder of their Shihakusho, afterall Isshin may not be a Captain but a definite Vice Captain.Soulreaper1234 (talk) 15:26, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

He has a captain's haori. He is a captain--God (Pray)  15:29, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Plus all current/past Captains do/did not wear the sash on their left shoulder, the site also has not decided on his rank yet, the piece of cloth maybe looks like a Captain's haori, but why does he wears that sash look very much more visible like a Division's badge?Soulreaper1234 (talk) 16:39, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

The fact that he has a captain's haori is good evidence that he was a captain. How he wears it shouldn't really be an issue. Taking that fact aside, it hasn't been stated whether or not he actually was a captain, but it has been said he is of captain-class power. It's probably safe to assume he was a captain, but it can't be confirmed until it is shown in the manga. CJett92 (talk) 17:09, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Appreciate if you guys paste any Link from the manga saying the piece of cloth was indeed a Captain's haori, saying he was indeed captain-class was like saying Ikkaku can be a Captain because he has Bankai, where Captain-Class may mean many things, like Ichigo who have reiatsu rivals that of a Captain-class Shinigami right?Soulreaper1234 (talk) 17:36, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Go take a look at it, it is definitely a haori, the division number is just not visible--God (Pray)  18:07, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

What The Bolivia is this? I was more refering to any saying/words describing the cloth was indeed a captain's haori and Isshin was indeed a captain of xxx division in the xxx time of... my point is if it is only the CLOTH than it is safe to assume he was indeed a Captain... then the GUY was also clearly seen wearing a visible Vice-Captain's Division Badge (only the number cannot be determined too), just like the current Vice Captains do wears them.Soulreaper1234 (talk) 18:29, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

I get your point that he straps it on his left arm, but shouldn't that be overwritten by him having the captain's haori? He could wear it like that because he may just like the way it looks. The way he wears it isn't really important. What is important is that he has the haori. Also, when was he actually seen with a Vice Captain's badge? I don't remember any time in the story when he had one. CJett92 (talk) 18:39, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Okay it was here http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-188-page-2.html, the cloth and the pattern do suggest a captain's haori YES? But the sash that keeps em together also looks like a Vice Captain badge, although it was clearly drawn like this http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-chapter-410-page-19.html (and onwards) it still left me to think that he was capable of being a captain but yet unproven it is best said he can be a vice captain too, because the drawings were being presented like wise... there has not really any explanation other than he saying he is captain class--Soulreaper1234 (talk) 19:02, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Using you're second picture for comparison, look at the last panel on this page http://www.mangareader.net/94-555-8/bleach/chapter-101.html. They clearly aren't of the same design. CJett92 (talk) 19:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Just by looking at his haori and the level of his power, it's pretty apparent that Isshin was once a Shinigami captain. Like CJett said, the band Isshin uses to hold his haori on looks nothing like the ones that lieutenants wear. If anything, Kubo needed a way for Isshin to wear his haori without exposing the division symbol - tying it around his arm is both convenient and awesome. Mohrpheus (talk) 20:54, September 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah looks like it, actually very worried in the end Isshin was just a small time Vice Captain if the sash turns out to be a badge and he was just wearing the haori out of respect towards his former captain if the cloth aint his, you just never knows with Kubo he might do it differently01:03, September 14, 2010 (UTC)Soulreaper1234 (talk) 01:22, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

I have to say that Isshin was a captain at one point for two reasons. First if you look at haori you can see the pattern at the bottom is that of the captains. Second is the fact that he was able to fight Aizen one on one and wear Aizen down to the point where he was winded. This is something that not even a group of captains and Vizards was able to do so to say he is just a Vice Captain would just not fit with his power. Unus7484 (talk) 00:24, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, first of all, that thing could just as easily be decoration. There's no indication that it really IS a haori, though I agree with you, there's a good possibility that it could be a haori. I believe so myself, but I'm cautioning against jumping to conclusions. We can conclude that IF he really did come from Soul Society, he would have to have been a captain, because yeah, I agree, there's no way that he couldn't be a captain if just flipping Aizen off was able to send him through a couple buildings. Besides that, he was able to do some damage to Aizen with his Getsuga Tensho, which is something that there's no way that a Vice Captain could do, unless the vice captains from long ago were that much beastlier than the ones today, which I seriously doubt. But Isshin could easily be a Substitute Shinigami, because I don't think that Gigai, which, from what Rukia's time in a Gigai has shown us, deteriorate over time, can reproduce. But we still don't know anything about Isshin's life as a Shinigami, so no one should go jumping to conclusions just yet. We can speculate, sure, but we shouldn't go think anything is right, just the "most likely scenario". Aeron Solo (talk) 19:21, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Isshin lossing his spiritual pressure- Ichigo Useless?
If anyone else has noticed but me but Urahara mentioned to Isshin when we 1st find out he is a soul reaper that he has regained his spiritual pressure. Also he was not useless anymore. my take on it is that since he knows the final getsuga tensho and everything. he must have done the same thing ichigo did with his Bankai. As we know Ichigo does not have any spiritual pressure right now. If Isshin did the same thing as Ichigo will Ichigo become weak and loose all of his power like his dad did. My feel is that in the end of the final battle, Ichigo will loose all of his power therefore ending the series as a regular student at karakura high school and everyone will live happilly ever after. anyone else see that comming if there is not another antagonist after Aizen?Jaybirt5 (talk) 20:39, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Good point! Maybe that's how Isshin lost his spiritual powers and I guess the same thing might well happen to Ichigo. However I understand that there will be at least two more arcs after the current one; first a short one and then a longer one. Perhaps these arcs will deal with Ichigo getting his powers back. After all, he is so suped up right now that there isn't much competition for him unless the setting changes dramatically and the other characters are dropped.SutekinaKaoboi (talk) 01:51, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Well i think that isshin had to use the final getusga bc of a fight just like ichigo but the question is who did he have to fight so powerful to use it on? i dont kow if aizen is ready to die yet i think he still has something to do bc he still hasnt tolf why he has been watching ichigo since he was born.lordaizen20 september 16

Oh yea i just about nailed it!!! i knew it was gonna happen like this!!!Jaybirt5 (talk) 20:51, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

In the most recent chapter, we find out about Final Getsuga Tenshō, you lose your shinigami powers. Seeing that Ichigo and Isshin sport similar blades, could they have the same power? Which also would mean is that why Isshin is so "weak" because he used it, and hence why when others see him(forget who) they mention I see you got your power back. But now is, how did he get his power back if this is true? Yialanliu (talk) 01:05, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

First "Weak" is the wrong term. It doesn't apply to him on any level. At one point he had Shinigami powers and lost them and therefore had been without them for 20 years. He makes insinuations that basically lean toward him having possibly acquired the FGT and used it resulting in the lose of his powers. How he got them back is unknown, for all we know the use of the FGT effect that cancels out the shinigami powers is temporary. But your way off on why others dont recognize him. If you notice no one has ever encountered Isshin besides Rukia who hasn't be a Shinigami for long (in shinigmai years) and therefore may have not known of him or seen him before. So we dont know who would would know of him or recognizing him if say a older captain met him. --Salubri (Talk)  01:22, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Isshins Past
Wait, I can just about guerantee that the older captains know him because Yorouichi and Urahara know him well enough to be able to fight together with him in a just about perfect formation. If they know him, then the older captians would know Isshin. 1st of all he is too strong to not be significantly known durring his time. Another speculation is that the 4 captains that have been around for 300+ years are older than yoroichi and kiseke. He also knows the Vizards when talking to Urahara after Isshin kills grand fisher.Jaybirt5 (talk) 14:46, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

I met active Gotei 13 members, Yoruichi has not shown any knowledge either way and Urahara obviously knows him though how is still in question. You cant make assumptions like that based on those two both Yoruichi and Urahara have been in the human world for 100 years they could have easily met him there. So saying they know then means other captains do is false cause you cant know that until its proven that they do. He knows of the Vizard but doesn't seem to know them personally and neither do they by Shinji not recognizing his reiatsu. Secondly you may not be aware of the type of information gathering we do on the site so you obviously dont know we know Yamamoto, Unohana, Ukitake and Shunsui are older then everyone else in general. Read the material please. --Salubri (Talk)  15:20, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

1st of all, this should be a new topic, this is not the "who does isshin know" topic. 2nd i agree with you, i was just to lazy to write the named captains out you siad were older than anyone else. I just speculate that if he has that much power, it is hard to ignore even if isshin never went to the soul society. the Gotie 13 have sensors in place to be able to sense any spiritual pressure. if Isshin released any spiritual pressure, then the SS would know. lastly he knows to much about captains to not know only the vizards and urahara group. He also knows about Aizen and Aizen knows about Isshin. There is to much common knoledge to not be known to at least the older captains. Jaybirt5 (talk) 16:24, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Having presumed knowledge and having factual knowledge is different things. We know he knows of the Vizard we know he knows Urahara and possibly Yoruichi. He knows of fighting and the Gotei 13. He is a Shinigami so that most of the information would be common knowledge to him. How or why he knows these things are still unknown. Secondly Soul Society sensors are set to specifically detect Hollow and Arrancar. If they could easily find Shinigami, Rukia wouldn't have been hidden from them for 2 months. Also the Vizards considerable spiritual power would also have been detected but hadnt been in 100 years. Also with his level of spiritual power he would have to know how to suppress it so it doesnt overwhelm others around him. Also Isshin knows as much about Aizen's plans as Soul Society and there is no proof that Aizen knows of Isshin, he knows that he is Ichigo's father but thats something easily known through observation, they arent shown to personally know each other. As I said before whether Isshin is known or not by the other captains is yet unknown they havent been face to face. --Salubri (Talk)  17:22, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Things don't add up to me. We all agree he was a shinigami at some point, but they're all technically dead right? So did Isshin die, go to the Soul Society, become a shinigami, then somehow come back to Earth? Or was Isshin just a substitute like Ichigo. If Isshin did die, how does someone come back at all, and have children? Staxeon 0456, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

well, assuming he isn't a substitute it mostly the same deal as urahara, he came to the living world at some point and his "human body" is probably a gigai. as for having children i don't know.Soul reaper magnum (talk) 07:05, October 22, 2010 (UTC)

We need to consider something here; from what we've seen from Rukia, a Gigai is more like a robot to inhabit than an actual body, because its functions seem to deteriorate over time, as was the case for Rukia, because she needed to go to Urahara to get its body parts fixed up or something. I don't see where that would fit in with Isshin, because we all know that, although he gets beaten up a lot, in human form he shows a consistent amount of power. If he's been living in a Gigai for who knows how many years, I don't see how this could be possible. Besides, if Gigai are temporary bodies, there shouldn't be any need for it to reproduce. By which I mean is, having *nudge-nudge, wink-wink* shouldn't produce any babies, unless they need to blend in with humans that drastically. But otherwise, I don't really see how Isshin could have a Gigai as a body for all these years.

Also, there's something else that should be considered about the hiding away. Both Rukia and Isshin had lost their power. Isshin's been living without any powers for, what, at least sixteen years, right? So even if they could detect Shinigami, it would be kind of hard to find people without any Shinigami powers at all, if you know what I mean. I know, that doesn't account for the time when he got his powers back, but the Gotei 13 probably had bigger problems to worry about. Besides, Grand Fisher didn't look like any trouble at all to Isshin; he probably didn't use much of his power to destroy that loser. But anyway, there are probably a ton of reasons why Isshin wasn't discovered, since so many people missed Rukia and Ichigo combined for two months. Continue to speculate; I was just saying stuff for other peoples' benifit to try and explain things. Aeron Solo (talk) 13:23, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Aeron Solo (talk) 13:23, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

what the new arks or ark might be about
i think the new ark after Deicide might show Isshin past

there no base infomation but i am discussing it it it would be a good and or the chance of it happening. It would a great idea since no really has any definte idea what his past is exactly in general, why he have lost his powers, or his former positon in soul society. Wolfsoul1000 (talk) 00:18, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, this new ark is definitely going to explore Isshin's past. The newest chapter confirms this, as the mysterious dude with the ramen bowl even stated that even Ichigo knew little about his own family, especially his father, whoa significant part of their conversation. I won't say any more to spoil the story, but it's quite obvious that Isshin's past will be explored in this arc. Aeron Solo (talk) 12:42, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

I have just visited the page of Isshin Kurosaki, it said there ex-captain of Gotei 13.

i'm sorry but i can't remember where was clearly stated that he was a captain of Gotei 13. can anyone please tell me ? i hope it's not a stupid question...

forgot to sign: Panarama (talk) 08:46, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

Isshin has a Gotei 13 captain's haori. Tinni  (Talk)  11:12, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

that is a weak argument... i've seen that too but it's not so reliable.

I thought that i missed something, some information. Ok, thanks! Panarama (talk) 11:39, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

HIS SON
Why didn't any shinigami know who Ichigo Kurosaki is (or even his heritage) when he first went to Soul Society when Isshin Kurosaki, his father, was a "popular" Shinigami during his time.

You Suck KUPO! 02:29, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

Isshin's past is entirely unknown. He was not a popular Shinigami. No one but Urahara, Yoruichi and Ryuken Ishida seem to know him--<font color="#660066" face="Verdana">God <font color="#660066" face="Verdana">(Pray)  02:48, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

Also even if Isshin was popular the only thing that Ichigo has that is the same as Isshin is their last name and that alone isn't necessarily enough to Identify Ichigo as Isshin's relative. <font color="Gold">Iam... <font color="Gold">JakuhoRaikoben 03:00, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

sigh I can't begin to tell you how sick I am of this pointless topic. Let's go over this again, we don't know anything about Isshin's past but let us assume that "Isshin Kurosaki" is known to all currently Gotei 13 captains, including Hitsugaya. No one but Rukia saw him until he showed-up to fight in Fake Karakura Town. Given that Unohana at least was still conscious at the time, until Urahara did some memory alteration - most of Gotei 13 now know Ichigo Kurosaki is the son of Isshin Kurosaki. However, believe it or not, "Kurosaki" is a common name in Japan. There is even a Kurosaki Station! So Kurosaki alone would not have joined Ichigo with Isshin. Ichigo does not look anything like Isshin and, most people in Soul Society assumed Ichigo was just a human with human parents. Because Soul society made that assumption, coupled with the commonness of the "Kurosaki" lastname, it would actually have been far-fetched for random Gotei 13 captains to go "Are you related to Isshin?" In addition, without knowing how Isshin left Soul Society, you cannot exclude the possibility that Soul society thought Isshin was dead. So, based on the information available to Soul Society, there was no need to think the Kurosaki Ichigo was in any way shape or form related to Kurosaki Isshin. Tinni  (Talk)  03:29, January 8, 2011 (UTC)

Isshin's past
How does Urahara and Isshin know eachother so well?

Why does Isshin wear a tattered Captain's Haori on his back?

Why does he have such high spiritual pressure?

Why is he so skilled in hand-to-hand fighting and Zanjutsu?

I think i have figured it out. i believe he is the ex-lieutenant of Squad 11 to Kenpachi Kiganjo.

Proof: Kiganjo's Lieutenant is never shown

The Haori on his back is tattered like Zaraki (and presumably) Kiganjo's Haori

He can work in perfect unison with ex-captains Yoruichi and Urahara

The Lieutenant of Squad 11 is the only person never revealed while Urahara was a captain

Before Ichigo developed a Inner-Hollow he was able to hold his own against Renji Abarai. This shows that Ichigo was roughly Lieutenant Level and he must have inherited that from some-where. Seeing as Lieutenant Abarai could hold his own against Espada 8 Szayel Aporro Granz(without Bankai) while Rukia defeated Espade 9 Aaroniero Arruruerie by fluke, he did not inherit this level of power from her.

The power Level of Squad 11 members: seeing as Third Seat Ikkakku Madarame can use Bankai, and the Lieutenant of Squad 11, Yachiru Kusahishi, is so powerful that not only is her spiritual pressure visible, she is so powerful as to have members of the Onmitsukidō cowering in fear from her, and some Captain-level shinigami are scared of her, why should this not be similar with the last Kenpachi? Isshin is obviously Captain Level, as is Yachiru's Spiritual Pressure.

Seeing as Squad 11 specialice in the use of Zanpakuto in battle, and Isshin is oblviously very good at this, it popints towards him being ex-Squad 11.

I will not bring into mention the insignia on Isshin's Haori as there is too much debate on the subject (could be a Squad 11 insignia, could be a sideways Squad 11 insignia or it could simply be a "X")

As for how can he go back to being human... Ever hear of a Gigai! he could have just asked Urahara for a Reiatsu Concealing Gigai or it could be like Rukia's first Gigai

Well Isshin could know Urahara previously from Soul Society or from them both living in Karakura Town. No one knows why he wears a tattered captains hiori. He has high spiritual power because he just does and he is skilled in hakuda and zanjutsu because he is trained shinigami that much is known. Isshin doesnt have the power of a lieutenant but of a captain, your use of the word proof because kiganjo is not shown to have a lieutenant is in error. We dont know if he had one at all the absence of one doesn't prove that its Isshin anymore then it does for anyone else. Also the Haori Zaraki wears is the one worn by kiganjo. His working in unison with in Urahara and Yoruichi which proves nothing as working in unison has happened many times before in bleach with various characters who dont normally work with each other. The truth of the matter is some lieutenants werent revealed during Urahara's time and were in fact only featured in the databook. Neither the 10th division captain nor lieutenant is known at all at that time.

Ichigo skill in swordsmanship was enough to hold his own against renji and not for long, that proves nothing of his actual capability at the time, you cant inherit a rank, shinigami work and train to raise their level of power. Renji barely survived against Szayel and Rukia barely won as well without actually sacrificing herself. Information about someone capability cant be gained by comparing them to other peoples fights, especially those that barely won. Ikkaku can do bankai cause he trained for it, Omnitmitsukido are not afraid of Yachiru that was a messenger that works for the omnitsukido they dont engage in combat, also most shinigami of power have visible reiatsu and no captain-lvl characters are afraid of her at all. There is nothing in correlation with Yachiru and Isshin neither points make sense. Your point of zanjutsu and the 11th division and isshin is also wrong. Every shinigami is expected to know and excel in swordsmanship and its based on individual. The 11th division specializes in it alone but they are not even shown outside Kenpachi, Ikkaku and Yumichika. Even then others in other divisions have been shown as capable and even more so. --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  02:30, July 27, 2011 (UTC)

A few points you may have missed:

Ikkakku is listed as captain level, the only reason he is not a captain is because he does not wish it

If you can inherit powers (Quincy, Fullbring, Shinigami) then why shouldn't you be able to inherit power levels?

Ichigo was rubbish at Zanjutsu when he fought Renji

Renji only won barely because of the ability-dampener in Szayel's Palace

Rukia was owned. Fullstop.

Yachiru has such vast spiritual pressure she can A) withstand Kenpachi's spiritual pressure B) as afor stated scare captain-level shinigami like Ikkakku

Isshin's vast spiritual pressure was shown during the entirety of Ichigo's Dangai training

It is stated that squad 11 is a squad of Zanjutsu Specialists, and above, who are a "cut" above the rest because of them not using Kido-based attacks (except Yumichika)

As for the Haori, what if he made it himself out of respect for Kijango? Chojiro has his own jinboari, so why shouldn't Isshin make his own Captain's Haori-cape as a sign of respect for the deceased captain?

Actually that is not true, having a bankai doesn't make you on the same level of a captain. The only one that makes the connection about Ikkaku being a captain was Renji asking him to be and Ikkaku refusing because he wants to be a subordinate of zaraki. He himself has never made that point only to state he wont show his bankai cause he thought they would make him a captain. Though Renji who is a lieutenant and has shown his bankai hasnt even been asked to be. This is a point being made that the criteria for captain has nothing to do with simple power.

Bleach doesn't work on power levels. Having natural power and having the skill to use that power is entirely separate. A quincy maybe born a quincy but must train to have great use of their power. Fullbring has never been stated to be inherited as a parent child issue (parent has it then child has it, we dont know that to be a factor). Shinigami dont gain it either, Shinigami are at their core souls any children they have are souls and must train to become shinigami and there are those that do not. There is not active qualification for a power-level. Its something individual based on training not something innate.

Ichigo had enough skill to hold his own because of his great amount of power and Ichigo actually has a advanced growth rate with learning then difference is that against highly skilled combatants he at the time couldnt really stand a chance.

Renji didnt win at all cause he had no capability to effectively fight against the Espada. The victor in the fight ultimately was Mayuri as even when Renji activated his bankai finally it didnt effect a win.

Rukia was severely injured and just by circumstance won the fight. There is no question about that regardless of what happened to get to that point.

Yachiru is highly skilled in the first regard as far as the second it is never explained why Ikkaku is afraid of Yachiru. She has never shown herself to physically violent so his attitude towards her is somewhat irrational, beyond the fact that she is his immediate superior.

Isshin's spiritual power is shown to be abundant that still doesnt explain anything about his past.

The 11th division only deals is zanjutsu and frowns down on any other skill. To say they are better then other divisions at it wouldn't be entirely correct as we have seen that to be inaccurate amongst many non 11th division characters who are accomplished in it.

As for Hiori. We deal in facts. No fact to any of isshins past and speculation based on no fact is not used. Isshin could have been a captain that much we do know as a possibility. Whether or not as you say customization of a outfit is different then taking or making the symbol of a captain (their hiori) and not be a captain. There is no fact to this in bleach at all. You can say maybe and possibly to anything but it doesn't make it anymore true or for that matter possible. --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  03:24, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Jeez. massive argument for one theory... doesn't mean it true, doesn't mean it isn't

Isshin's power
I'm just throwing this out here without having much of an idea, but what do you think the extent of Isshin's power is? He was able to fight Aizen with his sword unreleased, and his Getsuga destroyed like half the city. We don't even know the power of his Zanpakutou at all. Could he have beaten Aizen with Bankai? Why does the wiki say he lost most of his powers when he quit being a shinigami when he is already so powerful?!


 * Please start signing your posts. This can be done by adding four tildes to the end of your post. Isshin lost most of his power 20 years ago, as noted by Urahara. He has only recently regained that.--

That only answers the boring part of my question... Thanks for the input anyway. But seriously, no bankai?

&quot;I may be just a pothole in the road to you big guy, but it&#39;s going to be one hell of a deep pothole.&quot; - Tien (talk) 22:15, September 26, 2011 (UTC)