Talk:Sajin Komamura

He was human?
Where did the idea that Komamura was human at some point come from? It's in the history section of the article. LapisScarab 02:28, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

That comes from a history page, deleted until getting prove, as far as I remember, it's pure speculating. Mili-Cien 11:05, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
The Bleach Character book and offcial bootleg both show that he is 288 cm and is 301 kg so i changed it to that but i dont know what his height and weight becomes in feets and ibs.

Fox or Dog?
I know his history says his a dog,but he looks so much like a fox...

gohanRULEZ 01:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree they say he's a dog and yet he looks like a fox. Now its also stated that one of the reasons he hides his appearance for so long is because the fox is considered a bad omen and spirit of mischief or distrust. Others see him as a fox and dont trust him. This is the reason behind his loyalty and respect for Yamamoto and tosen. Tosen cant see so he never judged Sajin on his looks and yamamoto gave him a chance and looked past his appearance to see what he truly was allowing him into the Gotei 13 and captain position. So im guessing he is a fox but downplays it to dog so that he wont be so easily judged but as we see he obviously looks like a fox. Salubri 19:48, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Sajin's Release Command
Under the Zanpakutō section, it is stated that Komamura's release command is, but no reference is given for this information. Does anyone know where this info came from, as in the manga, whenever he used his shikai, he did not say his command? Is it from one of the games?--Yyp 11:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nobody has an answer to this? The fact that there is kanji for it suggests that it wasn't made up - it did come from somewhere. But if no proof is forthcoming, that isn't reason enough to leave it there. --Yyp 22:24, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

I think the information is from the Bleach Book of SOULs. I am not sure. I am uploading the raw here so people who can read japanese and check and confirm this is the source of the "Roar" command. Tinni 02:46, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Right, I'm fed up seeing this there with no evidence to back it up. It is gone. Until somebody can provide (in English) evidence of that being his release command, it is speculation. I have seen translations of various biographies & databooks, but I have never come across anything about his release command. And he is one of my favourite captains, so I would remember if I saw it. I'm repeating myself here, but is this from one of the video games? --Yyp 15:08, October 29, 2009 (UTC)


 * Right, a quick follow-up to this. I have found that exact page in English, and it says "Komamura's giant sword deems Kenpachi a traitor for helping the Ryoka, and gives out a roar." That seems to have been the source of this claim, so this matter can be put to rest now. --Yyp 20:47, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

Komamura's Main Image
I have a suggestion. Is it okay if we revert Komamura's main image (File:Sajinface.jpg) back to its original image (File:Saijin.jpg)? I believe it's better than the current image and its previous images because of two reasons. First, we have a better view of his face since he's facing the screen (I mean, you can see his eyes looking at you). Second, we also get a better view in the sense that it has the closest view compared to its successive images. Let me know what you guys think, okay? Thanks.:) --Ethelion 10:19, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Who changed his main image?! This is by far the worst main image Komamura has. Please revert it back to the one in the Fake Karakura Town.--Agate genbu 03:50, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey guys. I'd like to follow-up on my request re: "Komamura's Main Image" (refer to the Komamura's Main Image section of this discussion page for more). I assume that you guys not replying means that I could push through with my request of reverting Komamura's main image back to its original (File:Saijin.jpg). Unless you think otherwise, please give me your thoughts okay?:) Thanks a bunch.--Ethelion 01:32, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Bleach Video Games?
Ok, why does Komamura's page have this section? Shouldn't that info be under 'trivia' or 'appearances in other media'? And why does it redirect to "Bleach: Dark Souls"?King Of The Kill 07:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

You were right i dont know why it said that but i fixed it to appearances in other media, as far as the redirect link it has more to do with getting to the area talked about in the section this komamura.Salubri 17:19, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Automated transfer of Problem Report #23008
The following message was left by Goldbig via PR #23008 on 2009-06-08 10:40:59 UTC

The 'Trivia' section claims that Sajin is the only Shinigami without human properties.

Yet, in the 12th Div there are shinigami with huge fish faces which were checking Rukia's gigai.

I think what you mean is the 'Only Shingami Captain', not 'Only shinigami'.

Palm thrust

 * In episode 100 komamura was blasting people back with by simply thrusting his palms towards them but not even touching them and they were knocked back at least 2-3 feet, that is another testament to his strength but can it be added or or not since this was a filler arc?--SalmanH 20:09, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

It can be added in but needs to referenced. the only time theres an issue is when the anime totally conflicts with the manga. In this case it doesn't cause its showing a skill or ability that maybe seen later or he yet to show much like the versatility of his zanpakuto's abilities.Salubri 14:25, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Alright then as long as it isn't much of problem.--SalmanH 14:42, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Bankai/Shikai
I don't know Japanese, so if someone could indulge my question, I'd appreciate it.

His Shikai is Tenken (天譴) while his Bankai is Kokujō Tengen Myō'ō (黒縄 天譴 明王). Why does one have a k and the other a g (Tenken versus Tengen), when both use the same kanji (天譴)? I ran them through a romaji translator, and it identified them both as using a k. Is there a specific reason for this difference, or is one a mistake? Twocents 01:36, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

The official guide has them the exact way there up so who knows, we probably would have to know japanese to understand.Salubri 02:00, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, that's quite strange! Thank you for answering. ^_^ Twocents 02:02, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Is he the least seen captain of the Gotei 13
just wondering if he's the least seen captain of of the gotei 13, excluding Aizen, Gin, and Tousen (who are now villains). I know Sasakibe is the least seen vice captain/lieutenant. If he is, please add this fact to the article in triva or somewhere.

Tman7776 03:08, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Junk trivia, do not add under any circumstances. Plus "least" is difficult to quantify. Tinni 04:09, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Trivia
Re: The last point regarding Ichigo being the only person to beat his bankai. As far as I'm aware the two have never really met, let alone fought. When did this occur? TomServo101 13:40, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

This happened in the 3rd movie, that part should probably be specified because in the Manga Komamura stands undefeated in bankai mode as I believe he used his Shikai against Aizen. I'll make the change. Tinni 13:43, October 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Just as I was about to modify the trivia, it occurred to me that Komamura's was "defeated" while in Bankai during the latest anime arc when his zanpakuto turned against him. Then I thought to myself, is this really a worthwhile trivia? Do we go around listing when captains bankais are defeated? I mean if this is trivia worthy shouldn't we go add to Tosen's article that Kenpachi is the only one to defeat Tosen's bankai. Should we go mention that Aizen is the only one to conclusively defeat Hitsugaya in bankai (he eventually won against Shawlong, Luppi and let's call his fight against Harribel a stalemate) and that Soifon never won with bankai... at this point I decided that trivia wasn't much of trivia and just removed it. I hope no one has any complaints about that. Tinni 13:50, October 15, 2009 (UTC)

Junk trivia clean-up
removed trivia


 * Komamura is also one of the three current captains who doesn't appear during the Turn Back The Pendulum Mini-Series. The other two are Kenpachi Zaraki and Tōshirō Hitsugaya.

Obvious from that fact he doesn't have a Turn back the pendulum arc synopsis and the "one of" type trivia have been deemed junk.


 * Komamura is the only current Captain (counting both the manga and anime) who has not interacted with Ichigo Kurosaki or any of his friends.

Irrelevant and Komamura did interact with Ichigo during the 3rd movie and was present when he was being sent back to the living world, along with Unohana, Byakuya and Ukitake (see episode 63, 39:33).

Lastly, is it worth noting that the Komamura identified himself a "wolf" to Yachiru in the colourful bleach chapters? I ask because I noticed the "fox or dog" debate earlier and well, they are both wrong. He's a wolf, in fact what he said to Yachiru was "I am a wolf, not a dog, Yachiru" (Yachiru calls him Doggie). Tinni 04:08, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

A wolf, eh? Could it be that he's a sort of werewolf? It'd explain some of his rejection issues. TomServo101 15:53, October 29, 2009 (UTC)


 * Could be. I don't know. But it would also explain why he likes mixed breed dogs. I just looked it up and you can't get dog-fox hybrids. Most common mixed breed dogs are all dog-wolf hybrids, less common are dog-coyote and dog-jackal hybrids. Anyway, I do think that it might be a worthy trivia point. I am putting it in. If people think it is junk we can take it ou. Tinni 11:09, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Profile Pic
It has to go because it looks like it's from an older arc and it's not a very good one. I propose the pick on the right from episode 215 as a replacement profile pic. Tinni 23:23, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

I second the notion. This one looks much better. Minato88 23:33, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I am just going to go ahead and change the profile pic because I really can't stand the old one. Tinni 00:17, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Enhanced Strength or Immense Strength?
"Enhanced Strength: Due to his immense size, Komamura has unbelievable physical strength........." and "Immense Strength: Even without his Shinigami powers, Ichigo has shown himself to be deceptively strong, as shown from his ability to smash a man's head through a concrete floor....." - Something is wrong here. Komamura should have Immense instead of Enhanced, as his displays of strength are far superior to Ichigo's. In fact, Kenpachi Zaraki's Enhanced should be changed as well for the same reasons, or Ichigo's Immense strength should be reduced to Enhanced and Komamura's to Immense. That way we wont have to go through to change other characters' strength level, as i doubt anyone can compete with Komamura in raw strength Grimmjow2 21:55, November 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * @ Grimmjow, I see u'or point. It was good & I agreed. Therefore I have changed both Sajin & Kenpachi to Immense Physical Strength. I any users here don't like this change please state why, before changing them back. Minato88 23:11, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Ill leave it that way because i believe its true but your reference as to why it should be is wrong. I dont know how many times i have said do not use something from ichigo's page to qualify the skills of another character. Ichigo has not been properly referenced or had any maintenance and probably wont be in a long time. Therefore its not a good point to base anything off of because the information is largely ambiguous and not correct.Salubri 01:58, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Bankai translation
I've been looking up stuff and it seems his Bankai translation is inaccurate. Could someone give a more accurate one?

Please clarify what exactly you are talking about. What part of his bankai translation is inaccurate and why do you believe so? What's your reference? What is this "stuff" you have been looking up? Different translators usually have subtly different ways of translating things. Generally, when in doubt we go with Ju-ni or Cnet as they have the best reputation for being the most accurate. But without additional information this is a dead issue. Tinni  (Talk)  11:00, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Well, 'Kokujo' means black rope, right? (probably why his Zanpakuto spirit has a black rope) And we have 'Tengen' and 'Myo-oh'. His Zanpakuto is based on Buddhist deity Fudo Myo-oh '不動明王', so it's got nothing to do with a king (but strictly speaking, it can be 'wisdom king'). I don't know how those can be pierced together, but it looks wrong, unless Kokujo is actually some kind of being. Oh, and the 'stuff' I was looking up was the Japanese for Fudo Myo-oh. 12yungo 04:09, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Name of zanpakutos often come out not making much sense when translated. That is not strange. I do not have enough knowledge of Japanese to comment much on translation but Ju-ni, who are one of the best translators of Bleach, translates his bankai as "Black-corded wisdom king of divine punishmen". Sleepyfan, who are fastest but not necessarily most accurate, translated his bankai from chapter 384 (same chapter as the Ju-ni referenc) as "Vidyaraja's black ropes of divine punishment". Vidyaraja is a Hindi word, a language I am very familiar with and I assure you the "raja" part of Vidyaraja translates as "king" with Vidyaraja meaning "Great Wisdom King". This is all related to Myō'ō who is Aizen Myō'ō in Japanese (or Fudo Myo-oh as you put it but I have personally never heard him referred to as such) and Rāgarāja in his original incarnation in Hindi. Again the "raja" part means king. One of Aizen Myō'ō other names is Vidyaraja, which is where Sleepyfans translation comes. So if you problem is the "king" part, that part is actually accurate and well explained given who Myō'ō refers to. Tinni  (Talk)  05:38, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

PS. Just for clarity, Sajin's bankai is currently translated as "Heavenly Punishment of Kokujō's King". This does seem like a incomplete translation and so probably should be changed to the one provided by Ju-ni. Also, just in-case anyone is wondering, Viz translates it as "Divine Retribution, Black Ropes of Ruination". Tinni  (Talk)  05:59, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

I talked to Adam and he has verified the correct translation as this:

The kanji and romaji seem correct as are--黒縄天譴明王 Kokujō Tengen Myō'ō--but I would change the translation. I checked the raws, and several sources, including Japanese Wikis, and I believe the translation should be:

"Vidyaraja of Kalasutra's Heavenly Punishment"

Myouou is the Sino-Japanese translation, "enlightened/illumined king," of the Sanskrit vidyarājā "wisdom king." Kokujou is the Japanese name for the Buddhist hell--or Naraka--called, in Sanskrit, Kālasūtra; both mean "black rope(s)/warp." Tengen is the same as in the normal Zanpakutou's name Tenken, though with -k- voiced to -g- between the two names for an unknown reason (Kubo thought it sounded better, I guess). As far as I know, no one else has made the connection Kokujou = Kalasutra, but I confirmed on a Japanese Wiki that they are the same in usage. Adam Restling 23:11, December 30, 2009 (UTC) Salubri (Talk)  06:03, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Just to clarify, yes we understand that we have now just translated something from Japanese into a mix of english and sanskrit (root language of Hindi among other things) but I am sure no one is going to have an issue following the fact that Vidyaraja is a person and is of Kalasutra. Tinni  (Talk)  06:07, December 31, 2009 (UTC)