Forum:Retsu Unohana

This thread is for discussing 4th Division Captain Retsu Unohana. Please keep all talk about her on this page. Posts outside of this page will be merged with this one. If the topic you wish to discuss is not listed here, feel free to add it. --Yyp 16:30, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Minazuki and Combat
I was wondering, how do you suppose she fights with Minzuki? It is not something that sits well with her stated speciality of kendo. I think if she uses the manta ray for battle, we'll see a lot of ramming, biting and whipping with the tail. --Yyp 16:30, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

Unohana's temper
We have had a few hints from the anime & manga that Unohana can be rather scary. And most recently, she all but insulted Mayuri about the Garganta. I find it odd that she can be so well regarded by her comrades despite this. Thoughts? --Yyp 16:35, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

She generally only loses her temper for a reason. As for insulting Mayuri, he's a jerk that basically noone likes. Insulting him can only increase her popularity. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 17:22, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Unohana's Supposed Strength
Why everyone thinks that Unohana has to be some super strong captain? I mean yeah she has highest stats after Genryusai and Aizen but as we have seen, stats doesn't mean anything really... For example Zaraki is weakest captain by stats but he has beaten Tousen quite easily even though Tousen used his Bankai. I just don't get it. Ergroilnin 20:29, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

If thats your way of thinking then the generals and aizen's power doesn't mean anything. People where becoming aware of her power by the information given by characters in the series, regardless of her not being known for combat. If you know anything about the series yoruichi even states zaraki is a special case and his power is great regardless of not knowing the name of his bankai as shown. Zaraki just doesnt have kido or shunpo to use. But that matters little because its a fan thing to add the stats up and all that. The fact is with whats shown tosens abilities couldnt take zaraki, if it was another captain who knows but the fact is being a captain means alot in the series they are first line of defense against any enemy of soul society. Unohana is the second oldest captain after the general and she is even older then ukitake and shunsui who are the two most powerful captains in this generation or those that came before and they even fear her. Not to mention so does the 11th division. She is obviously not some push over cause shes nice and gentle doctor.Salubri 20:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually Salubri sorry to say this but she's not the second oldest captain but second oldest soul in Soul Society/Sereitei after the general and Ukitake and Kyoraku are the oldest captains but it's just a technicality and other than that everything you mentioned is correct.--SalmanH 21:19, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to say but its been documented. chapter -108, page 13 Kyoruku officially calls her senpai meaning that she is older then both him and Ukitake. There is nothing that actually states them as being captains before her as they are only documented as being the first to graduate the academy and become captains. All four were the only original captains 100 years before the flashback 110 years in the past. Meaning the general having created the academy never went himself and therefore seeing as its insinuated that there where generals before yamamoto then it stands to reasons there were captains before as well. the general is the oldest in soul society followed by unohana. In both respects she is older then them as senpai mean older as well as mentor in terms of age and organization.Salubri 21:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Moot point as it's filler, but in episode 234, she did sneak up on them without them noticing. And Ukitake's sweating when he disapproves of her helping Mayuri (most likely coz he's scared) TomServo101 22:21, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

"Why everyone thinks that Unohana has to be some super strong captain? I mean yeah she has highest stats after Genryusai and Aizen but as we have seen, stats doesn't mean anything really... For example Zaraki is weakest captain by stats but he has beaten Tousen quite easily even though Tousen used his Bankai." - Look at their purely physical stats though. Offensive power, physical strength, and defense. Tousen is one of the weakest in melee combat, but far more powerful with kido (as show when he blew up Grimmjow's arm) and intelligence. Zaraki's one of the strongest in the physical areas. If Tousen fought differently and tried using speed and kido instead of his bankai and melee he would've likely done better. It just means you gotta look deeper in the stats than the raw totals. Looking at them, it looks like Soi Fon may be able to beat Hitsugaya at melee but loses at ranged, for example.

Unohana has high stats in almost everyone area though. Even her physical stats are almost as high as Kenpachi's!

Also, stats aside? She can make pretty much anyone back down.ZeroSD 00:27, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

About those stats we actually did have a conversation on it before, those things aren't completely reliable and none of us know the full extent of Unohana's, Ukitake's, Kyraku's, Aizen's and Yamamoto's abilities and I doubt the person who made them really knows either unless it was made by Kubo himself but why would he do something like that now take a look at Byakuya's he has 510 and Ukitake's is at 470 Yamamoto stated That power is unrivaled by anyone who came before you and everyone since. So it'd be better to continue this conversation without referring to the stats.--SalmanH 05:45, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

That one's pretty easy to explain. Ukitake has horrible physical strength due to his sickness. Equal offense, better defense, better kido, better intellect. In good health he'd beat Byakuya. Just don't worry about the totals, they're designed to be looked at stat by stat and fit just fine that way. (And yes, Kubo did make it).

Not that that's the be-all and end-all either. Some sword abilities wouldn't figure into the numbers too well, and total spiritual pressure's not really in either. But it's a nice guide. ZeroSD 07:29, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Something interesting to note is during the birth of Wonderweiss. Aizen stipulated that to awake (temporary) the Hogyoku, it is necessary to possess twice the power of a captain. Then if Aizen was able to awake it and following his stats (560 of 600), we can assume that it means that the average captain would have 300 of 600, but I saw no one with that kind of stats. Besides Lieutenants. Moreover, Zaraki and Hitsugaia can still improve because they're not complete yet. But it is sure that Unohana is the strongest captain of the remaining captains after Genryusai and Aizen (the bad guy of this story) if accepting the stats. But we don't know anything about the strength of Kyoraku combine with Ukitake. We can make a parallel with soccer teams, if we follow the teams' stats, we could say that the team A is stronger than the team B, but that won't reflect the result of the match. As seen with the fight between Hachi and Barragan, it is probable that Barragan had the better stats but he lost before a more clever opponent.Baronofash 13:35, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I completely agree with Baronofash even though she is suggested to be powerful there would be some fights that she just would not win, for example, Byakuya and Zommari, Byakuya would have never have won against Szayell Aporro, but Mayuri did simply because of his character/personality so it shows that /unohana may be old and powerful but against certain opponents she may be no match....although personally a fight between her and Yammy would be long awaited and actually rather enjoyable...especially if she is as powerful as we are speculating and due to Yammy only technically having raw power with his aspect of death being wrath the fight could be potentially amazing and could sway to Retsu's favour? Thoughts?.... Sanbuntaicho 00:17, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I remember the episode where Aizen (560) submitted completely Grimmjow with only his reiatsu, then if we accept the stats, then it is sure to admit that Unohana (540) would had no problem to submit all Espadas under Noitra (5th), plus she is a medical and kido master, meaning she doesn't need to use her sword. Zommari was no match against Byakuya's kido, and Apollo was no match against Mayuri's poison. Then if we see the fights from the beginning, all antagonists fought their mirrored power: scientist (Mayuri against Apollo), fight lover (Zaraki against Noitra), Instinct power (Ichigo against Grimmjow), dark power (Ichigo hollow form against Ulquiorra), and so on...Baronofash 00:46, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I bet Byakuya still could've beaten Szayell as handily as he did Zommari, just through different means. Probably blitzing him at the start of the fight, or stealing the vodoo dolls, or hit him with a variety of attacks fast enough he can't analyze and counter them all. It probably wouldn't have been as awesome as the mad-scientist-faceoff, though. There is a reason Szayell was the second lowest Espada, he wasn't as tough or skilled or fast, if he doesn't have a good read on someone's abilities he can be in trouble, and even that can be somewhat overwhelmed by brute force (like when Renji managed a point blank kido).

Unohana vs Yammy... he's rage, while she's one of the most collected captains of all. She's experienced and powerful, but his raw might is massive. Instead of being like vs like, it'd be a juxtoposition. I'd look forward to that one. ZeroSD 03:16, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

The stats don't seem to mean anything. Not only are the averages amazingly high, but some stats (eg kidou, intelligence) are given out like candy. Really smart characters like Hitsugaya only get a 90, which wouldn't upset me (since a 90 is really good) except so many characters get 100. Characters with kidou ratings of 100 (higher than their swordfighting ratings) often don't bother to use kidou in combat. I just can't picture seeing those stats as useful at all.

The only real evidence I've seen of her strength was scaring Rudobon away without doing anything. She must have some scarily-powerful reiatsu. It'd be nice to see her actually fight, however. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 17:25, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Unohana and FKT
Ok, I'm gonna call it now, just in case: Unohana uses her bankai to heal Hiyori. I say this because it seems as though Orihime is going to be stuck in Hueco Mundo until Yammi is dead, and Unohana is with Ichigo, and obviously they're gonna burst into FKT just as Shinji is begging for his return. If Unohana's shikai is that manta ray thing, that heals people, then surely her bankai will also be capable of healing, maybe even enough so that she can repair someone like Hiyori who is lying in two halves. Just a thought but I figured if I call it now and it actually happens then I get sick props. BollyW 20:41, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

during down time i been going through past chapters and episodes and I noticed that people are very afraid of unohana. I remeber during TBTP mini arc shunsui talks about the oldest captains and forgets unohana and someone says it would be bad if she heard that ect... and also right after aizen leaves soul society and the guy is shouting in the infarmy and unohana is there. so i think you're right that her Bankai is going to be something very special. I have the feeling she will also tend to ukkitake. But I wonder if her Bankai is similar to Hanatoros shikai (sp?) and utilizes both healing and destructive properties at the same time. But I am anxious to see her fight for once.Shillagan 23:47, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

healers as skilled as Unohana can be very dangerous. their knowledge of anatomy can be a devastating weapon. Darkgoku 03:13, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Well Ichigo hasn't left yet. They just opened the Garganta. My feeling is that Kubo is planning something. If he was going to have Ichigo leave smoothly, he would have shown Ichigo entering the garganta this chapter. Except we have a shot of Ichigo standing in front of a garganta. My feeling is that either something will happen to stop Ichigo from leaving or that more people will leave with him next chapter. Tinni 03:59, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Yea I think you bring up a good point about them not getting a smooth leaveing. I'm torn over who is Vasto Lorde and what not, But if The theory of all the current 0-9 Espada are not VL then I think if Aizen had any VL hidden now would be time one would show up to battle Ichigo and Unohana before they left through Garganta. However if They sucesfully go through Garganta it makes you wonder "what has Urahara been doing" because you would think he would be trying to open Garganta but I digress. Either way I have been interested in seeing what Unohana can do. Shillagan 05:37, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Unohana's Bankai
It's funny to speculate what kind of bankai she has, but did she not leave her sword with Isane back in hueco mondo?

Either way it has been hinted that Orihime's skill in reversing time is not unique, but a very high level spell. It's unlikely that we will see her bankai when she arrives in Fake Karakura Town unless she actually did bring her sword with her, but the most recent evidence (ie. manga scenes) shows her without it.

As a Master Swordsmanship Specialist along with being at the same age of Ukitake and Kyōraku and her battle data shows her at being very proficient offensive, i think it's unlikely that her bankai will be a healing mechanism only based on those facts. Moemoe 15:21, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Obviously all speculation, but I can definitely see her bankai being related to the same type of healing/release as Hanataro's. Hence her stance as the fourth squad captain. Assuming that she may be coming with Ichigo to FKT, then she may be able to heal or put back together Hiyori with her bankai, soifon and Hachi's arm...Byakuya's ligaments...Kenpachi's body...etc etc...plenty of opportunities to use her gift (if that is what it is)...then watch out for what might happen on the offensive end. Who knows...Unohana is one of the captains I don't speculate on too much. Just throwing my two cents in...

@ Moemoe - Unohana did bring her Zanpakutō with her. Isane was taking it off of her shoulder and giving it to Unohana in the previous chapter, and it can be seen on pages 4 & 16 of ch.381. --Yyp 15:54, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

@ Yyp - Wee, might be a chance of seeing her more in action then - and it's very likely that the vizards along with shinigami will be healed as Unohana did not mind healing the Privaron Espada, hopefully she will get a bigger role in being offensive. It's very hard to speculate on what type of bankai she has, as her shikai does not follow the normal role of being a simple melee weapon. Moemoe 16:04, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Minazuki (肉雫唼, "Purify the Flesh") can probably mean more then just healing like purify with acid muhahahahaha(i hope)Kensei24 22:47, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

lol@kensei24's comment. unohana is one of my favorite characters. i would like to see her in action (offensive) though there are only a few enemies left in FKT and i don't wanna see her fighting a villain with someone's help (there are still a lot of protagonists in FKT). As of her bankai... i'm just wondering... did she use it when she saved hitsugaya? i don't know what happened in the manga but in the anime she drew her sword out before healing the young captain. or maybe she just used Minazuki in shikai... what do you think?--WinterFox 03:08, November 10, 2009 (UTC)

The stats are pretty much useless. Ignore them, and focus on what actually happens. Anyway, Unohana was Yama's first student (though apparently not in the academy, ???) according to Ukitake, so she has to have had ages to get good at anything. Every other really powerful character has engaged in some sort of battle, yet she's just cruising. Obviously she will only actually fight if everything starts going really bad. Plus the fact that the 11th division shits bricks when she's around, cept for Kenpachi (though he does get pretty cautious) and Yachiru (but she's batshit insane).

Deicide
So, for the last chapters, after everyone getting beaten down by the Espada and Aizen, I'm still wondering where Unohana Retsu is. After she arrived from Hueco Mundo with Ichigo, she has been gone from the radar. She clearly isn't healing the whole troop. She did not help Yamamoto, Urahara & co. and Ichigo. If I had to guess, I would say she was analyzing Aizen's evolution and she's currently healing Yamamoto; for both of them should be instrumental for Aizen's downfall. Any other thoughts? Laguna 19:18, June 12, 2010 (UTC)