Talk:Kaien Shiba

Evidence for Enhanced Strength
Episode 49 of the anime reveals a lot about the strength levels of Metastacia and Kaien Shiba. After destroying his zanpacto, Metastacia strikes Kaien with one of it's feelers, sending the lieutenant flying. During their fight, Metastacia attempted to strike Kaien with his feelers. The hollow missed Kaien and his feelers dug into the ground. FInally, when Kaien tore apart one of Metastacia's feelers it was revealed that the feelers are composed of three large green muscles. In light of this evidence I would think that it is safe to assume that Kaien possesses enhanced Strength.

Kido Expert??
Kaien Shiba only displayed his skills in Kido in the anime. We won't justify his enhanced strength for a feat he accomplished in the anime, so why should he have Kido Expert in his Powers and Abilities section?? Spiritwarrior (talk) 23:44, December 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Whether it was in the anime or not has nothing to do with it. Kaien did not display enhanced strength, we have told you this many times, you refuse to accept it. Kaien did display an expert level of mastery over kido. Case closed.--

Release Call correction
Let me start by saying that since BLEACH has had such a long publication history--whether it be as JUMP weeklies, their translations oldest to newest, or the later (and sometimes corrected/altered) volumes--there are many errors from earlier translations which it could take time to correct, as they are often overlooked as settled. The goal, then, is for anyone perusing older material to raise possible issues where they might see them.

In that vein--and, again, forgive my tardiness in noticing it, and in noticing any future ones--I linked to the "Nejibana" section of Kaien's page and found that the current translation of that Zanpakutou's release call seems to be incorrect (if the words used are accurate to the manga).

The current version has suiten sakamake as "rankle the seas and the skies", but the verb sakamaku (from which the imperative form sakamake derives) is actually said to be intransitive, not transitive. Thus, rather than commanding Nejibana to perform the verb's action to something else (here presumed to be = suiten), Kaien's call actually commands the subject of the line (again, suiten) to perform the verb's action itself.

Whether you want to render suiten as "water(s) and sky(/ies)" or "water(s) and heaven(s)" is up to you guys. But sakamaku does not mean "rankle" (which = "vex, irritate"), but instead "swell, surge, welter (of waves or the sea)" (< the more lit. "wind or coil back/in reverse")--though I admit that rankle, if it were the correct translation, can be used with either transitivity, and the incorrect translation could be seen as a poetic phrasing equivalent to "seas and skies, rankle ye/yourselves!".

In summation, suiten sakamake means "water(s) and sky(/ies)/heaven(s), surge(!)" (which can, of course, be written also in the order "surge[,] water[s] and sky[/ies]/heaven[s]"), asking the waters and skies themselves to surge or swell, as in tempest.

Feedback or queries are welcome; I'll try to reply to them in a timely fashion :). Adam Restling (talk) 23:10, December 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm with you on this issue. Sakamake has no secondary meanings either, so "rankle the seas and the skies, Nejibana" is definitely wrong. Let's try to think of a nice way to phrase it correctly, because it is a very poetic command... Mapar007 (talk) 22:22, January 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I gave my suggested possible translation (poetically XD) above in the bold: "surge, water and sky" :). Adam Restling (talk) 13:03, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Spiritual Power
Can we change Kaien's Spiritual Power to "Great"? He was noted to have especially high spiritual power even by noble standards. Steveo920, 18:10 January 5, 2013

Viz release phrase.
I went back and checked, and the Viz version of Kaien's release doesn't use the word "rankle" at all. He says "Rage through the seas and heavens" (and, although it isn't canon, he says "Rage across the seas and heavens" in Third Phantom). Schiffy (Speak to me |What I've done ) 02:34, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

Episode 49, he uses "Rankle the seas and the skies." I see no reason to change it just because Viz wanted to use a different translation in a later episode. Arrancar109 (Talk)  02:36, March 17, 2013 (UTC)


 * Didn't realize that. I should probably note that what I was watching was actually Aaroniero/Kaien, anyway. Schiffy  (Speak to me |What I've done ) 14:07, March 19, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's alright. You brought up a valid point. From what I've seen, though, all of Viz's variations of Nejibana's release command has been noted on his page - Viz's manga variant, which is noted in his Zanpakuto section, and the anime release phrases (episode 49 and Aaroniero's release command). So, they're all noted on Kaien's page anyway. Arrancar109 (Talk)  04:11, March 20, 2013 (UTC)