Talk:Sōsuke Aizen

Aizen Brigadeer-General
Dekoshu 19:27, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Where in the manga, or anywhere, does it say Aizen is the Brigadeer-General over his army of Arrancar? CCSfanatic 13:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think it does.CorpusDei 14:19, 6 November 2008

I believe that the Tite Kubo quote "The gaze into the sun." needs to be moved... it makes little sense just throwing it in there unlabeled and placed even before the info on Aizen, does anyone have any ideas where it could be placed it would be an unfortunate thing to remove but needs to be placed somewhere more sensible maybe? Acacia Akiyama 02:25, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

why?
why was the post- defection photo removed?
 * always correcting,  Aunva 01:02, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't remember this...
When did this ever happen?

That was in the Anime, when Unohana and Isane arrive to the Central 46 chambers to find Aizen alive. This happened a LONG time ago. He's demonstrating what his zanpakuto really does. Arrancar109 02:37, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

OHHH! I remember now. I don't really remember it well...I'll have to go watch it over :P I must have not been paying attention. But thanks :) --Espada Speed 02:42, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Quotes!!
How come we have no quotes from the main villain? Shouldn't we check that up? I'll start one, if no one minds, but I'm not really into checking whatever important thing he has said all throughout the series. Lia Schiffer 08:37, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Religious
Before Aizen pretended to kill himself and was talking with Hinamori, I noticed he was wearing a samue. A samue is typically worn by Japanese Zen Buddhist monks and are usually brown or indigo (in this case, it was brown). Although it can be worn casually and not for anything religious. This also kinda makes a link to his name. His name is obviously stemmed (but not stated) from Aizen Myō-ō, a Japanese god of love. I thought this information could be interesting to put into the trivia; anyone agree?

P.S. More info about Aizen Myō-ō can be viewed here ---> http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/myo-o.shtml

And another example of a samue wearer would be Miroku from InuYasha. Lady Naveah 11:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I like that idea. I think it would go wll under the trivia. :)   -Starrk The Wolf.

Allow me to make something clear, a trivia like that would be considered speculation and removed very quickly. While an interesting observation, until Kubo says Aizen is religious/follows the teaching of Buddha or has some connection to Aizen Myō-ō this will not be allowed in. Tinni  (Talk)  01:51, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Master hand-to-hand combatant?
I was just lookin and i noticed that on the Hakuda page it has Aizen listed as a master yet on his his page it doesnt mention anything about it (that i saw). I do not think he should be listed as a master seeing as we have yet to see him doing any major hand to hand fighting. And i do not think he would be able to stand up to yoruichi, soifon, or kisuke who are all masters in there own right. so yeah i think he should be taken out of mastersOne eyed king 01:42, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Good eyes in fact he is not or either hasn't shown himself to be thats why it was taken off his page. Totally forgot it was on the Hakuda page that will be handled though.Salubri 02:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Shinji Breaking Kyoka Suigetsu's illusion?
It appeared to me that Aizen was using kido to conceal himself on page 18 of chapter 315.2, not Kyoka Suigetsu. Perhaps it was Bakudō #26: Kyakko. Ziegkyu 22:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

hmmm that makes alot of since, but i think its better to say that he was using suigetsu and allowed Shinji to find him as to give him a false sense of strength against aizenOne eyed king 05:29, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

It's neither consistent nor likely to assume that he used kido. It's way to elaborate of an assumption to just assume to remove it because you think its kido with no proof. When what is proven that he has been using his zanpakuto's special ability for some time, especially against Shinji. Also with consdieration that his zanpakuto special ability would allow just that form of stealth.Salubri 06:14, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

I will admit that my edit was rash. However, I contend that nothing about the event was consistent with what we know about Kyoka Suigetsu. Shinji wasn't aware of it's true abilities, yet he wasn't the least bit surprised when he caught Aizen spying. Also, Aizen didn't seem concerned or surprised at all about Shinji spotting him, which doesn't make sense if Shinji just effortlessly overcame his Zanpakuto's special ability. This seems especially unlikely given that about 9 years later Shinji is helpless against Kyoka Suigetsu's technique. Then, take into account that Aizen has described "complete hypnosis" as flawless and that even if aware of it, which Shinji wasn't, the target can not resist. Also, the illusions have shattered or melted away in the past when Aizen disengaged them whereas Shinji seemed to tear a hole in space when revealing Aizen. Examining the panels and the distortion around Aizen closely, it looked like Aizen had bent light around him and bakudō #26 Kyakko does just that. Besides, Aizen uses his Zanpakuto's special ability to misdirect his opponents by appearing to be somewhere he isn't, not to simply mask his prescence. Taking everything into consideration, it is indeed consistent and likely that Aizen was using kido while eavesdropping on Shinji. Ziegkyu 20:03, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

It would be consistent if not for what Aizen was telling everyone what it could do previously being a lie. He prior to admitting his role in rukia's execution has everyone believing that his zanpakuto was a flowing water type, lying about its abilities to everyone. He can just as easily leading shinji into a false sense of security as he had been for years. The fact is that your specifically stating something when there is no proof of it. If you dont believe it was due to the zanpakuto special ability thats fine but you cant state it was a specific kido unless its stated that much, which it isn't.Salubri 22:43, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

My apologies. I meant to use that specific kido as an example that kido can be used for invisiblity, but I ended up saying that Aizen was using it specifically which was a mistake on my part. I do think Kyakko would be a good fit, though it could just as easily be a different unnamed spell, but regardless I have no desire or intention to state my speculation as a fact in the article itself. With that cleared up, I do however have a problem with implying that Shinji was able to overcome the zanpakuto special ability. Given how powerful the ability is, it seems a dangerous implication to make without proof. Having said that, I'm going to rest my case and leave this for others to decide. I thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me Ziegkyu 00:49, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I believe the anime episode showing that scene displays the light from the illusion flowing back into the sword so it looks like it was Kyoka Suigetsu's ability after all... Auron85 22:23, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

I am extremely glad you brought that up. I hadn't thought to check the anime episode(207, for those who care). However, doing so has given me the proof I needed. The light from the illusion is actually flowing back into his hands. I am sure of this because he isn't carrying his zanpakuto meaning that he couldn't have been using Kyoka Suigetsu. Ziegkyu 02:39, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

You cannot take everything a character says in the bleach series as truth, nnoitra says he cant be cut he was sliced up in two, byakkuya says renji can't even bring him to one knee, renji did just that, so beacuse aizen says it's complete hypnosis, it doesn't mean it's flawless otherwise he would have cast it upon facing the gotei 13 and defeated them easily. they are arrogant and they conversations are based on such. you say he bent light around him i say he made the area where he was at an illusion, shinji tore the entire area of the illusion down as he was walking, you are correct saying the light went back into his hand and he wasn't carrying a zanpakto, but kidou isn't used in the series for deception it's used for attack and defense. if he used his kyoka suigetsu to do an illusion of invisibility, until he does the command "shatter" i think it is, the sword will stay invisible, he wasnt defeated by shinji so the shikai form of the sword should not revert to the original state, it only does that on his command like with unohanna or if he is defeated in battle and neither occurs so it would stay in the invisible state. thats how i see it.Shinji hirako 02:53, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

If it were Kyoka Suigetsu, it can still be logical that even if Shinji couldn't see Aizen, he could feel his reiastu. I don't recall it being able to cover that up, so if Aizen wanted to be found, he can leak his reiatsu, allowing Shinji to discern Aizen's location, and as Shinji "tears" the illusion, Aizen removes it, allowing Shinji to appear as if he bested Aizen's illusion, but maintaining his sword's true powers a secret. One eye 05:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I think KS's power also extends to spiritual sense, as Sajin Komamura wasn't able to tell the difference when he swung for him back on Sokyoku Hill, so he could feasibly do it to Shinji as well. TomServo101 12:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Leaking his reiatsu so that Shinji could find him, so what is the sense of him hiding himself then, Sajin swung at the actual aizen thats when he was holding sajin's sword with one hand he then use the special ability to make it look as if he was by kaname when sajin called bankai he released it and hit him the black coffin spell flooring sajin unmercifulessly. I see alot of people getting mixed up with powerful and invincible, his greatest strength to me is his intellect as he forsees situations develop before they actually happen so he is well prepared. Tite has allowed him to keep his sword in his sheath for whatever reason, maybe a showdown against Ichigo or even Yamma. I for one don't think he is the most powerful shinigami in the series but will wait and see what Tite has in store cause he is drawing the audience away from the star Ichigo.Shinji hirako 01:17, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm almost certain that it was indirectly stated it does extend to spiritual sense, Unohana stated that she did sense was something odd about his body but didn't realize it until she saw him alive, it may have been something like that. Ancient Chaos 03:27, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

First of all, Aizen is a master manipulator. He could just as easily used Kyoka Suigetsu, and allowed Shinji to percieve it as Kido, and to make him think that he had broken it. With this, he would be playing on Shinji's arrogance as a Captain thwarting the efforts of a Vice-Captain.--Ulquiorra Wannabe128 11:28, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

Battle stats...
Hey, everyone! I'm curious... Do the stats that Tite Kubo published for Gotei 13 captains refer to Aizen while he was a captain, or Aizen in general? If it's the latter, doesn't that go in conflict with what he said about reaching the limits of Shinigami powers? We also know that he was monstrously strong 110 years earlier when he was just a lieutenant... If it's not the latter, maybe it should be accentuated in the article... Auron85 13:31, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * The stats refer to the SS arc I believe. And Aizen never said that he had reached his limits - he just mentioned that Shinigami have limits. The fact that he messed up Hado 90 Kurohitsugi on Komamura shows that he hasn't quite reached his limit yet. --Yyp 13:39, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Thats right his entire power level being so amazing is mostly fueled by fan based speculation besides what little is seen when he is found to be traitor a little before he leaves for Hueco Mundo. He never states anything about what his power level is. He doesn't mention at all about reaching any limit. He is explaining to Ichigo the reasons behind his deception and plans. He only explains the different types of combat stating that one can only go so far in them and that the only way to surpass that is to be a shinigami-hollow hybrid. Chapter 175, page 9-11 He never states anything about himself personally. The table also reflects his overall ability as a captain its an assumption to assume his power is any different when he is in control of hueco mundo when nothing is shown to prove that. It has become apparent that he relies mostly on his shikai in dealing with powerful arrancar as shown with his interaction with Barragan.Salubri 13:48, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

Kyouka Suigetsu
Isn't Kyouka Suigetsu the only zanpakutou with psychological effects? I added that to the Trivia section, but Arrancar109 undid it for some reason. Animeluvr92 21:59, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

He probably thought psychological was too broad or strong a word. While it does allow manipulation of another's senses by the use of hypnosis. It doesn't seem to affect others mentally, be it changing their personality or what have you, similar to what we know of hypnosis. The psychological effects shown are due to his mastery of manipulation.Salubri 22:08, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

When Aizen met Starrk
Currently its put down as "At some point during his captaincy Aizen finds Coyote Starrk and Lillynette Gingerback and is impressed with the Arrancar. He asks if the mountains of hollows were killed by him and Starrk tells him no that they just died. He then makes a offer to Starrk to join him as an ally. Starrk believes Aizen to be strong and agrees to join him." I dispute this. For one while Aizen was wearing Shinigami clothing he was not wearing a captain's haori or his glasses. In fact he was dressed as he was when we first see him in Heuco Mondo. So I say he most likely met Starrk after he was revealed to be a traitor and openly moved to Heuco Mundo. Tinni 13:21, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd agree with this. That is clearly Aizen as he was when Ulquiorra & Yammi returned from their mission to the Human World. Hair pulled back, no glasses, and a white jacket with a high collar as opposed to the Captains collarless jacket. So that scene takes place sometime between Aizen's abandoning of SS and the arrancarization of Wonderweiss (Starrk was present for that event). --Yyp 13:30, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

I made the change. From the Barragan flash back it is clear that Aizen stayed in the standard captain clothing for his activities in Heuco Mundo during his actual captaincy. Tinni 13:49, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

And then, he did this, and then that... Then, then, then...
Has Anyone tried to read the summary of rescent events...? I'm not an English speaker, but I find this constant repetition of the word THEN painful to read! Am I the only one who thinks that way...? Auron85 14:41, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I am a fluent english speaker and this annoys me. So I agree with you on that. Ten Tailed Fox 14:47, September 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Alright, I'll go through the article and fix-up what I can. We probably should get this article fixed up in anticipation of events to come. Tinni 03:42, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Alright, it's done. Please feel free to read over the history section (which had the most thens) and the personality section (which I just fixed for the hell of it) and let me know your thoughts. I haven't touched the arcs but let me know if you guys think that needs to be fixed up as well. Thanks. Tinni 05:14, October 2, 2009 (UTC)

Shikai
Should it be noted that there is apparently no difference between released and sealed Kyoka Suigetsu? It almost seems to be in constant release, since he uses the hypnosis like... all the time. Of course, the constant release thing is mere especulation, but my poin is that, just like Komamura's, the sword doesn't seem to change post-release. Lia Schiffer 12:24, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * True, though right now I think we should wait on this. We, like the Gotei 13, know too little about Aizens Zanpakuto and its true capabilities &/or powers. I have pointed out a couple of times the weirdness about Kyoka Suigetsu. Such as every time he says "Shatter, Kyoka Suigetsu", his sword was already released and it instead seems as though he is actually sealing it. So for right now I think we should hold off on this until we know more about his Zanpakuto. Minato88 17:53, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Flawless?
Why does it say Aizen's illusions are flawless? Although we can all agree that his illusions are very powerful and nearly impossible to see through, the fact that Unohana saw there was something wrong with his body does argue that they are not completely foolproof. I'm just wondering why the word "flawless" is there, when we can agrue it's not. And I think it was Aizen himself who said the word "flawless". Please, no flaming.--Black Artist 00:48, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Flawless is what Aizen said about Kyoka Suigetsu. However, flawless and foolproof are two different concepts. If Aizen's illusions are foolproof, then no one could sense anything wrong with them. There would be no way to tell the illusion from the reality. However, flawless means that they are without flaw. The illusion looks like the real thing but it is just a smokescreen. We have seen time and time again that whenever Aizen casts his Kyoka Suigetsu, his enemies are fooled into believing whatever he wants them to believe.

What is probably tripping you up is that you are saying that Unohanan saw past the illusion, when she didn't. She noticed something was off about the body that was presented to her. Remember that she told Tosen and Komamura when they visited her that she declared Aizen dead. If she believed at that time that there was something wrong with Aizen's body, she would have told the two captains. It is only after Rukia's rescue that Unohana feels like there was something wrong with the body. However, she didn't know what. There were probably a dozen explanations for why she felt this way. In fact, she believed that it was an elaborate corpse doll that took the place of Aizen's body, not an elaborate illusion. She was fooled as well.

Anyways, to go back to what I was saying, flawless and foolproof are not synonymous. --Shinitenshi 20:17, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

High Intellect? Not good enough surely?
I was just wondering why Aizen's intellect level is only on High? There are many people who are on this level as well, but Aizen is on a different level. Also, the two Ishida's are of Genius Intellect...are you saying that they are smarter than him? Glacial Blaze 03:06, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

What is being said is that Aizen neither claims to be or is insinuated as such. His intellect is high and he is more then given to manipulation but he is never considered a genius like Gin or Hitsugaya. Salubri (Talk)  05:46, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

I think it should definitely be marked as genius, we have seen his intellect to be just as high as the Ishida's if not higher

Well its not determined by fans its what is stated or shown its not based opinion. There is nothing stating he was a prodigy and his intellect is no greater then any of the great minds of soul society. Salubri (Talk)  05:52, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

If I remember correctly I believe on a few occasions it has been mentioned that Aizen has a genius intellect or an intellect high than everyone in soul society's. I cannot actually confirm this myself but I think it is something that should be looked into.--Mangadude1963 06:02, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Thats fine if there is some actual manga reference that states that then it can be placed. Salubri (Talk)  06:17, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

The only thing that makes Aizen different from the other higher leveled captains is his reality warping shikai. He isn't a super mega genius, only extremely manipulative and cunning.--Black Artist 00:12, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

I have to side with Mangadude. I think I remember them saying he has a genius intellect on several occasions. He is incredibly quick to figure things out and can calculate the odds of things in an instant. He can figure things out faster than Uryu. He is a genius no doubt.--Godisme 03:08, January 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you (or anyone else) say when that might have been said in the story? -- Yyp  (Talk)  03:12, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

You know there is a difference between genius and a high degree of intelligence. Genius is defined as a person, a body of work, or a singular achievement of surpassing excellence. The key word here is surpassing excellence. While Aizen has shown great cunning and strategic intelligence he has not shown genius. Ichimaru, Hitsugaya are considered Geniuses because they surpassed excellence in the mastery of their shinigami powers. Ichimaru completed a six year course at the shinigami academy in one year and Hitsugaya is youngest captain in the history of soul society. Mayuri considered Ishida a genius because Ishida at an young age displayed Quincy techniques that experienced quincy warrior could not display, i.e. Ishida surpassed excellence in the mastery of his Quincy powers. However, no such claim can be made without speculation for Aizen. Certainly, Aizen's mastery of Kido has raised a few eyebrows. Ichimaru was surprised at him being able to cast the black coffin without chant, although Aizen considered the spell a failure, and Tessei considered the fact that Aizen blocked his spell with a chant-less Danku a stunning achievement. But while Aizen's kido is excellent, there is no evidence he "surpasses" excellence in that field. In addition, his experimentation with hollows-shinigami hybrids produced indifferent results even by his own admission. On the other hand, Urahara Kisuke's creation of the Hōgyoku can be considered a singular achievement of surpassing excellence. So while I have no doubt that Aizen is very cunning, perceptive and intelligent man, he has not surpasses excellence in any field as far as we know. Therefore he cannot be called a genius and as far as I am aware, no one has called him a genius. Tinni  (Talk)  15:58, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

Quote

 * (To Ichigo Kurosaki) "Why are you putting so much distance between us? If you want to make sure it hits me, then you should get close and fire. Or is it that you're afraid of letting even a part of me out of your field of vision by getting close? If that's the case, then it's a foolish thought. Distance only has meaning in a fight between equals. With you and I, distance holds no meaning at all. Watch... If I do this, my hand is almost instantly at your heart." 

I added this quote because it further shows Aizen's arrogance in believing that Ichigo is no match for him. It also shows more about his battle philosophy. I find it ridiculous that my quote was removed and this quote:


 * "What's one or two pieces of dust to scatter?" 

Was kept instead. The quote I placed showed more about his thoughts on the battle between him and Ichigo. And thusly, deserves to be placed on the list of quotes here. --Seireitou-shishō (瀞霊冬川平) 23:30, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Partners
Can we now remove Tousen from Aizen's partner's list and move him to Previous Partners? SerialSniper14 (Talk)  20:22, January 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Seeing as no one has commented on this and Tōsen is already listed with no partners, I'm going to go ahead and change Aizen's list. SerialSniper14  (Talk)  22:45, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Soifon's Attack
When I look at this page, it looks as though Aizen caught Soifon's hand. Does this look like Aizen caught her hand before the attack? --Shinitenshi 22:53, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/391/15/

It's what it looks like to me. Does anyone see anything beyond that? TomServo101 23:00, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Yea I see that. But If you look on page 13 she has already attacked him. You can see the stinger enter his chest. Not to mention both his arms are encased in the ice, he can neither attack or defend. What you see on that page is his hand is free enough and close enough to grab her hand but that seems to be the extant of his mobility. It doesn't look as if he was able to stop her as she is fast and he is trapped. Also there would have been no point of him explaining why the technique didn't work, had the technique not already taken place. Salubri (Talk)  23:03, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

I can accept that. In fact, on page 13, it shows Soifon hitting Aizen. I should have looked at that prior. But the reason why I say that is that usually when Soifon attacks with her Suzumebachi, it leaves a Homonka. I didn't see a Homonka on Aizen. --Shinitenshi 23:46, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Thats also a good point but we also know from the explanation that even in using the technique it didn't work. The Homonka only appears upon contact of the technique working. Salubri (Talk)  23:51, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Too much detail
Whoever has been updating Aizen's page from the events in the manga, there is WAY too much details in the synopsis. A summary will do, not every tiny movement he makes, or every line he speaks. The article is getting too convoluted (and it's not the only one). Dartblaze 06:19, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

You may not be aware but this site is not affiliated with any manga site or anime site. On most pages accurate detail is allowed based on that fact. Not everyone reads the manga. Not everyone watches the anime. Even less are informed of the details of anything happening in either storyline which leads to alot of speculation and false information (which is a considerable problem on this site more then mostly any other wiki sight). We have found that being detailed with references alleviate that from the considerable problem it has been. Not to mention as the story goes on information is gonna get long on the pages no matter what one does. There are alot of sights that downgrade what takes place in the story by mentioning a sentence and you have to sift though months and years of content to try to understand what happened or even remember what happen. This site tries to be more comprehensive and detailed then that, just as much as reading a book. Sure you can watch the anime and the manga provided by other sites and we encourage all users to look for themselves but sometimes they wont bother. All I can say if you dont like it then you obviously dont care to much for the sight. I dont know maybe there are other ones more to your liking. But turning every page into 2 paragraphs a arc is not acceptable. The conversations in bleach are just if not more so relevant then the fighting so im not sure what could be taken out, but having to much detail is never a problem its the lack of information that causes trouble, at least on this site. Just so you aware as well synposis may be removed for a plot later as it causes these sorts of things to take place. Salubri (Talk)  06:37, February 5, 2010 (UTC)