Forum:Sōsuke Aizen (Thread Closed)

This forum is for discussing anything relating to Sōsuke Aizen. There are already a number of existing topics, but feel free to add new ones if what you want to discuss is not related to the existing posts. Do not create new topics about Aizen outside of this page.

sosuke's bankai
one thing i wonder is if his (fake)shikai was a flowing water type what was his (fake)bankai?Soul reaper magnum 00:55, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

ever wonder how aizen achieved bankai (assuming he already has)? To achieve bankai you must subdue you zanpakuto (make it submit to you), right? I wonder how he did this since his zanpakuto is very difficult to beat/no loop holes. Maybe he hasn't achieved bankai that's why he's so furious on getting the king's key, lol. Maybe the way to defeat/overcome aizen's zanpakuto lies on how he achieved bankai. unless there are some other ways to achieve bankai other than having your zanpakuto submit to you... --WinterFox 08:27, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

good point, but since it's a part of his soul he might be able to see past it.Soul reaper magnum 18:53, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

hmm.. that's possible. but, even though it's still part of his soul, i doubt he was able to see past his zanpakuto's illusion that easily. (if i were his zanpakuto, i won;t make it that easy.) i kinda remember the time when Zangetsu asked Ichigo to find his real sword/form during Ichigo's bankai training. Maybe Suigetsu did the same thing, sort of. anyway, i forgot to answer your original question. If his fake shikai was a flowing water type, I think his fake bankai (which he should have shown during his Captain exam) would be something like Kisame's ability (in Naruto), where he creates a large body of water. he might be able to fight effectively in water or his fake bankai might give him additional abilities to do so (imagine Aizen during his Captain exam showing his bankai, and he looked like a Merman, with scales, webbed-limbs and gills!!..lol). What's your idea of his fake bankai??--WinterFox 03:40, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Fight With Aizen
on the upcoming fight with aizen i have had a thought, as ichigo has not seen his Shikai it can be assumed neither has hollow ichigo. this could mean that if ichigo sees it, then might not hollow ichigo take over the fight, in a similar fasion to ichigos fight with ulquiorra? (or do they share all there experiences) Fawcettp 05:32, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand u'or question. Could u please explain uorself better. Minato88 05:48, November 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * it is kind of a two part question. firstly- does ichigo and hollow ichigo share everything they do and see and secondly- in not could hollow ichigo take over ichigos body and fight like the last time Fawcettp 06:02, November 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I can't answer the first part. The second part is possible. We don't know why Ichigos mask didn't form. A user here BollyW has pointed out something interesting about that. He stated that Hollow Ichigo told Ichigo to stay alive until he reappeared, but Ichigo was killed in his first conflict with Ulquiorra there by violating the one thing Hollow Ichigo told him. So we can't say for sure, but I think Hollow Ichigo is rebelling against Ichigo & might try another Coup De Tat. Minato88 06:09, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Minato88 I think u have a point, hollow ichigo will most probably show up in a critical moment in the fight against Aizen, or maybe he might shutdown his body functions and some else might have to step in to save ichigo like when he fought yammy the first time. Hopefully its isshin, in the 380 chapter he seemed to be a little emotional about what he did to ishida, maybe it affected his resolve or instincts to fight subconciously, he still wants to fight but he seems distracted.Kissmybankai 19:42, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Is It Aizen?
While Ichigo and Unohana were talking in the Garantana Unhohana states that Ichigo is the only person that could defeatt Aizen because he has not seen his Shikai. After i read this i thought of a possible scenario. Scenario= Once Ichigo arrives at FKT he is very annxious to fight Aizen so he rushes to find him,but after looking everywhere for him he cannot see him anywhere,instead he spots someone that he has never seen before next to Lisa and Histugya. And that person could be someone that Aizen used his shikai to make everyone believe was him. The only problem with my theory is that how did that person kill Harribel?

Any inputs?

Havefun221 14:55, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

What I want to know is... will Ichigo's "ability" to be unaffected by the illusion save him? Aizen could fight him for real and possibly beat him (but maybe not his Hollow form) and then there's Aizen's bankai... PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 23:34, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Yes it is really Aizen. The fight with Tia Harribel proves that Aizen is really there. Honestly, Aizen's illusion abilities produce the most wild speculations. Tinni 23:43, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

No or at least I don't think it will. Aizen is just too strong for Ichigo. I don't know how to say it, but Yamamoto, Shunsui, Jushiro, & Unohana(maybe) are the only ones strong enough to beat him. I personally can't believe Aizen is strong enough to take on Yamamoto & Shunsui by himself. Minato88 23:45, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo cannot defeat Aizen
look back to episode 61 for about 3 secs aizen showed his zanpakto in front of Ichigo before putting it back in it's sheve after he pwned Ichigo the only we know for a fact that have not seen it is Uryu, chad, and Orihime(in the manga they never made it back up the sokyoku hill a 2nd time). I think Orihime will defeat Aizen because she is the only character(besides Unohana) we have not seen with any offensive powers. Besides nothing in bleach is ever that simple.--Lemursrule 22:21, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Here's proof thumb|300px|right

Actually, last night I was thinking the same thing. I.e. that Aizen who loves is sword is a very cautious man, probably did release his sword silently. However, the second thought that occured to me was, can Orihime "reject" the event of character X seeing Aizen's zanpakuto? Because if she can, it doesn't matter who has seen Aizen's zanpakuto, she can undo that event and suddenly Aizen has to put everybody back under hypnosis. Although I don't know what's going to happen in the next few chapters. I mean there are 5 more chapters before this is a break for Christmas and then another break for New Year. Twenty chapters till we hit the 400 chapter mark. I am thinking Kubo might be planning to wrap things up in the "Arrancar Arc" by chapter 400. So... who knows what is going to happen between now and then. Tinni 23:40, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Um you guys seem to be under the missunderstanding that Aizen's absolute hypnosis works whenever someone sees his sword. This is incorrect, the hypnosis only occurs when he releases his sword, not just whenever his sword is in shikai and someone looks at it, they actually have to see the action of the release. is the proof of this. So Ichigo has not seen Aizen release his sword. BollyW 23:50, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Yes but you must remember that when we see the flash back of Barragan, Aizen just asks him to "look at his sword" and clearly by taking a look at Aizen's sword Barragan fell under it's spell and didn't see what Gin and Tosen were upto till Aizen released his sword and showed him the carnage. Tinni 23:54, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Yes but Aizen clearly states the conditions that exist for his hypnotism to work. I admit I don't understand how he performed that little trick with Barragan and his army but nonetheless I'm going to trust Aizen and Unohana on Aizen's powers over a flashback that really doesn't explain anything. BollyW 23:58, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

I think we all have to remember that Soul Reapers who have obtained Bankai do not have to call out their Swords name in order to release them & we really don't know what happens when he releases his Sword. I have mentioned before that it seems like everytime he calls out "Shatter, Kyoka Suigetsu", his sword was already released & it actually seems like he is sealing it. The truth is Aizens Zanpakuto remains as much a mystery to us as it does the Gotei 13. Its actually kinda funny that we know very little about Aizens overall abilities. Maybe he really is stronger then all of the Espada(I doubt that claim), but who knows. What do u guys think. Minato88 00:01, November 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well from his words I gather he didn't THINK he was stronger then all the espada. At least not the top three combined. I.e. he truly believed that if the top three turned on him together, he would be in trouble. But events proved to him that he had overestimated his Espada. That much was obvious. So... maybe he really is stronger. Tinni 00:11, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

That could very well be the case, and therefore he was unlikely to do that to Ichigo. Consider that he intended to cut Ichigo in half, and only just failed, so he wouldn't have release his sword purely to bifurcate(love that word) some random ryoka boy who's bankai he could stop with his finger. Therefore Ichigo hasn't seen his sword. BollyW 00:10, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I actually think that Ichigo hasn't seen the transition from sealed to release, i.e Ichigo isn't under Aizens power. I do however, think that Ichigo having to make sure not to look at Aizens sword while fighting is a really really hard task to pull off & I don't see how that gives him much of an advantage; especially since all Aizen has to do is release his sword to hypnotize Ichigo & Aizen doesn't have to call out its name to do so & no one knows what his release looks like so Ichigo doesn't know what to look for or in this case to not look for. Overall Ihave to insult the Gotei 13. They have put their hopes in a 17 year old Substitute Shinigami who hasn't even been a Shinigami for a full year; though I now know why Yamamoto was so against the idea of Ichigo going to Hueco Mundo. What do u guys think about the Gotei 13 putting their faith solely in Ichigos abilities? Minato88 00:31, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

I call he arrives on the battlefield blindfolded! Tinni 00:35, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Call seconded! I reckon some of the captains could fight like that but not Ichigo who is incapable of sensing reaitsu... BollyW 00:41, November 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ichigo can too sense Reiatsu(or however u spell it). Example: Ichigo sensed when Rukia & Chad were defeated by the Espada, though technically Rukia killed Aaroneiro. That would be funny though. Ichigo arrives making a dramatic & flashy appearence with a blidfold on. Ichigo:"I'm here to kick u'or ass Aizen". Unohana:"Ichigo, u are talking to a building. Aizen is thirty yards behind u". Lol. :) Minato88 00:54, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Touche my friend, you are completely right. That's a bit embarrassing to make that kind of mistake. Although in my admittedly pathetic defence, Ishida did once compare him to Zaraki (or really compared Zaraki to Ichigo) saying that neither of them could sense reiatsu despite their enormous reaitsu themselves. But you're right, I'd forgotten all the times he noticed his companions losses or near deaths. As an aside that would be rather funny although kinda pointless... BollyW 01:01, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo can sense reiatsu, he's just lousy at it. Unlike Ishida, he's only had his powers for a year or less.

I'm thinking Ichigo's full Hollow form can beat Aizen. It could beat a ludicrously powerful espada (Ulquiorra, second release) easily enough. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 21:52, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

It doesn’t matter if Ichigo has seen Aizen’s shikai or not, but Tite Kubo said Ichigo has not seen Aizen’s shikai, and then he hasn’t. I am going to tell you why Ichigo currently can’t beat Aizen: First, Aizen has show be very good with kido by casting a level 90 hado spell without the incantation and by blocking Tessai Tsukabishi, who was once captain of the kido corps, hado level 88 with kido level 81. Ichigo doesn’t if know how to cast a level 1 kido or hado. Second, I don’t know who is faster Ichigo or Aizen. I would think with Ichigo’s bankai he might be faster, but I can’t say. Third, hand to hand combat I can’t say who is better most likely Aizen. Four, Swordsmanship Ichigo style of fighting is rust in and swing he’s sword, he doesn’t think. Aizen with his strength is very good at sword fighting and he only uses one hand to fight. This leave another hand opened for kido or hado. If he were to use two hands in a sword fight he might be able to slice Ichigo’ bankai and Ichigo himself in half. Fifth, look how strong Aizen is he stopped Ichigo’s bankai with only a one finger and almost cut him in half with a single swing of a sword, but Ichigo was just in a battle. He also stopped Renji's Shikai with his bare hand and broke it with one swing, injuring Renji in the process. He was even able to stop Komamura's giant blade with his bare hand and he cut through Harribel’s Hierro with only one strike with he’s Zanpakutō in its seal form with one hand. Six, there is a big different in Spiritual Power Aizen has the spiritual power twice that an average captain. Ichigo has the spiritual power of a captain. The force of Aizen's spiritual power is also great enough to, without any visible effort; bring the 6th Espada (who is Ichigo equal) to his knees. Seven, Aizen is a Genius he has a great talent for analyzing and observing everything in his presence. Ichigo I not going to say he is dumb, but he doesn’t think look at the Soul Society arc and the Hueco Mundo arc ( which are the same thing like all of the bleach series). He rushes in without having a plan. If it were not for Hollow Ichigo. Ichigo would have all ready be dead. Eight, Aizen has not released his bankai so even if Ichigo were to equal how would he equal he’s bankai. Nine and finally what if Aizen has hollow powers. He does have the Hōgyoku; if Aizen does have hollow powers and has mastered them there would be no one by themselves who beat him. With Aizen masterly of the shingami arts, he’s intellect, and zanpakuto’s abilities. He is all most unstoppable, but he is the principal antagonist of the series. FlamingHorse, November 13, 2009

First Ichigo's speed while in bankai and hollow mask is probably at least as fast as Aizen. Second They aren't going to fight hand to hand... They both have zanpakuto and they both will need it. Third he stopped Ichigo with one finger but that was LOOONG time ago and Ichigo wasn't nearly as strong as he is right now (+he wasn't at his full power that time as well seeing as he fought Byakuya just a little while ago). Fourth it doesn't matter that he cut Halibel. It just means that his reiatsu is sharp so he was able to cut through it. Fifth yes Aizen's spiritual power is at least double that of captain. But acording to last manga chapter, Ichigo also have at least double captain's spiritual power so they are equal in this. And last... Aizen definitely didn't hollowfie himself as we saw that he was mocking vizards saying that they are just "wannabe arrancars" and he's too proud to be "wannabe arrancar" as well. Oh yeah and it's manga. It's obvious that protagonist will beast antagonist :P Ergroilnin, November 13, 2009

Ichigo has shown himself capable of defeating opponents with kido like powers, Grimmjow's Desgarron, gran rey cero and darts all mimic certain types of kido both in effect and power and Ichigo proved capable of defeating him. Second, Aizen was slower than both Yoruichi and Soifon, and Ichigo in bankai was able to produce clones of himself like Yoruichi (and Byakuya) can, so it is safe to say that Ichigo's bankai makes him faster than Aizen without. Contrary to your belief that Ichigo just 'rust in a swing he's sword' (rush in a swing his sword) whilst fighting, Ichigo's duelling skills are quite advanced as he was able to duel with Byakuya on an equal level and Yoruichi made the comment during his bankai training that he was no longer relying on Zangetsu's power but instead learning to fight skillfully. Aizen stopped Ichigo's bankai with one finger when Ichigo was still using bankai for the first time, was nearly collapsing due to his fight with Byakuya and was not expecting Aizen to be in a position to block his attack. There is no big difference in power, Ichigo at below half strength possesses captain level reiatsu according to Unohana, so his reiatsu is therefore at least twice as large as a normal captains. Aizen is a genius but not even a genius can account for every variable. Ichigo may not have his level of tactical thinking but he is very good at thinking on his feet in a battle, watch his fight with Grimmjow and how he uses the dust clouds to hide his attacks and lure Grimmjow into vulnerable positions. If Aizen doesn't get to release his bankai then it won't matter, and even if he does, who knows how powerful it is or what effects it has. As Ergroilin said, Aizen has shown nothing but contempt for the vizard and therefore it is unlikely that he is one himself. Please do think about what you post before stating your opinion like it is fact when a careful examination of the evidence suggests otherwise to your opinion. BollyW 09:15, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

I said Ichigo currently is not has powerful has Aizen in the future maybe, I don't know. Ichigo is not has powerful has you bleach lovers might think he is with out he's sword or hollow he is weak and bleach is the same thing over and over again. I don't felt like explaining this to any of you. Watch the anime or readed the manga. FlamingHorse, November 13, 2009


 * @FlamingHorse. Judging by u'or typing errors i'm guessing u are learning English. So I figured I'd help u out. The first problem with u'or last comment is u using has in place of as. First Part Correction: "I said Ichigo currently is not as(not has) powerful as Aizen;(a Semicolon is needed as these are two different objects of one topic & using a comma is called a Comma splice)in the future maybe, I don't know." Second Part Correction: "Ichigo is not as(remember not has) powerful as you Bleach lovers might think he is." (This is actually where u'or sentence should have ended & the next part should be a new one.) If u are wondering about my typing I use u in place of you & u'or in place of your or you're. Third part Correction: "Without(is one word) his(not he's) sword or hollow mask, he is weak and Bleach is the same thing over & over again." Fourth Part Correction: (this one is essential to use correct spelling & Grammar. Cause if u are going to insult someone, u don't want to look like an idiot in the process). Correction: "I don't feel(not felt) like explaining this to any of you." Fifth Part Correction: "Watch the anime or read(readed is not actually a word) the manga." Judging by u calling us Bleach lovers u are not what I would call a big fan of Bleach, which i'm sorry to say is apparent in many of the things u said in u'or above comments. What Bolly said was correct, one should really pay attention to the series before posting crap on things they might not completely understand. Minato88 19:34, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo can't defeat Aizen simply because Bleach would then end. We have to remember that unless Aizen is succesful in making the King's Key, then there will be no reason to bring in the other characters that we're all waiting for. I think Ichigo is going to get worked and have an inner soul intervention to square away his Hollow powers. For all we know Aizen may have been relying on Ichigo's vast power to make the King's Key to begin with. Also we still have Aizen's Bankai to contend with which should pretty much devistate everything. I'm going back to my old theory that Orihime is the only one who will defeat Aizen. In order to save everyone from certain death and destruction she will Reject Aizen........or some crap like that!!Hollowmajinbuu1 09:58, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Bleach wouldn't neccesarily end even if Aizen was defeated. Actually I would like it if that happened soon because it would change the series again quite a lot. You can roughly divide the series into tree parts: Introduction to the world with shinigamis and hollows (with grand fisher as main villain), Saving Rukia (with SS as bad guys) and fight against Aizen. You can see that the Ichigos enemys have been changing before, so they can change again in future. Therefore Aizen doesn't need to stay as main villain forever, and his defeat wouldn't end the series. For example (someone on this forum pointed this out before, i'm sorry but I don't remember who) Mayuri seemed even more mad than normally last time he spoke, saying that after the war he will punish Ichigo pretty hard ( http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/381/05/ ). Ofc that's just one possibility but you understand that anything can happen and Aizen won't need to be part of it.

But I still don't think that Ichigo can defeat Aizen atm. He would need to fight him blindfolded which would give Aizen massive handicap. And even without not blindfolded I still think that Aizen is all-around better, being expert at Kido too. So, in short, I would like it if Aizen was beaten, but I don't think that Ichigo alone can do it. --Akeki 10:18, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo can't beat Aizen because of his Zanpakutō. I have read about people saying that Ichigo would have to fight him blindfolded, but fighting blindfolded is not easy to do. Can Ichigo fight blindfoled, has he been trained to fight this way. How do you beat someone who can control the five senses of the body and all it takes is to look at his's sword. How do you get pass his zanpakuto. Aizen 's zanpakuto is the best on bleach because of its power. So even if Ichigo could equal Aizen's power how does he get pass his illusions and even if hollow ichigo came out Aizen could put him Kyōka Suigetsu's Shikai ability. Finally, Aizen bankai would make him ten times stronger and what is its effect. If I spelled someting wrong or my grammar wrong, I don't don't give a dam. This is not english class I am not being grade on my writing. FlamingHorse, November 14, 2009


 * The blindfold thing was a joke. U'or typing is much better now, the only mistake I care about is dam is spelled damn, when u use it the way u did. I was just thinking u seem to be learning English & was just trying to help. Minato88 21:28, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

You are not under his hypnose unless you look at his sword during it's releasing. Ichigo can just close his eyes for two seconds till the shikai release is over and then he can start fighting normally... And Bankai doesn't have to strengthen hypnosist powers. It usually does boost shikai's ability but as we have already saw, there are zanpakutos like Soifon's Suzumebachi which Bankai doesn't boost it's 2hit&youredead ability. Ergroilnin, November 14, 2009


 * Well, actually Soifon's bankai boosts her shikai from 2 shot kill to 1 shot kill :) So in a way, it is in line with her ability. As far as I remember, every bankai we know has some kind of logical connection to its shikai (Kanames has to do with senses, except that blade-shooting shikai). The connection doesn't have to be straightforward boost to shikai, though. --Akeki 23:24, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

This is just a general notice to everyone involved with this discussion: please refrain from using profanity and stay on topic. Let's keep this civil, everyone. :) Thanks! Twocents 21:36, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Man, F@%$ civility. Just joking. :) I don't think it will be a problem & I will stop using cuss words. Okay everybody, this is just a Forum, so lets at least attempt to try & get along. Luv u Twocents. :) Minato88 22:45, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry about what I said. Ichigo can beat Aizen if he trains for it. Ichigo needs to control is spiritual power and master his hollow power. Both Ichigo and Hollow Ichigo have captain class Spiritual Power, if Ichigo were to fully master his hollow and shingami powers. Ichigo waste energy because he lacks control. He is like Kenpachi imagine how power Kenpachi would be if he conroled his powers. Thi would be Ichigo but stronger FlamingHorse, November 14, 2009

I have a feeling that as Ichigo was still hanging on ganjus shoulder when they got the msg, that he probably had only been healed a little bit by Orihime--aka all his bones were still cracked from using his bankai and his reiatsu probably below the half strength mark that Renjis had been when Urahara said he would fight for him. Now even if we say he was at 1/2 strength at the time he was about equal with Byak. (who is most likely weaker than the cap. com and 3 senior captains-- or basically most likely he is high mid. lvled as a captain) so 1/2 rei. of that would probably barely be captain lvl (or if we take comments on double to also mean hes double the strength of the avg captain (so we could say that maybe byak. as upper mid= 1.5captains or something...) itends up with ichigo being below captain lvl- though taking it so literally is a bit.. yeah. Then take that his body is still screwed and it may have all compounded so his hit may not even have been 1/4 of its normal lvl which no matter where byak. is exactly would still make his hit closer to a vicecaptains lvl than anything else.  And if we say he was actually near exhausted then he could have been even weaker.  So nothing is odd about aizen stopping it with 1 finger (we could even compare it to ichigo vs kenpachi but instead of fear insert in that his body/reiatsu was weakened).

Now currently speaking I would say that as Aizen at least made it sound like he was near the limit of shinigami, we could decently correlate him to the captain commander. Like saying the captain and him are at least both twice the str. of an avg captain. Now if Ichigo almost doubled his power with the mask then in sheer power he would be above the 2x captain lvl in pure power as well. Now as his bankai compresses his power, it sounds like it pretty much gives him a shortcut to control his power-- at least somewhat. So really it basically depends on a few things 1) How strong was Ichigo (compared to 'avg' captain lvl), 2) How strong was his hollow compared to his full(with glowing blue eyes) power, 3) How much stronger than the 2x (if any) is Aizen, 4)In a serious fight what is Aizens fighting style (since we haven't seen how he fights against someone near him in power at all-- only seen him try to get people to see his shikai/beat up people who already saw it/beat up not close to 2x and most likely weaker than normal ichigo), and 5) How much ability would ichigo lose trying to NOT see that release--for all we know ichigo is amaster of blind karate(aka like how kenpachi used 2 hands, making ichigo suddenly like "Well i'm tougher with my bare hands but having this sword hang on my back uselessly feels odd" or some other odd semi-reasonable asspull of the sort). I personally feel that if were talking pure power, Ichigo (being at 1/2 str) is really 3x an avg captains lvl (1.something norm+1.something hollow+blue glowy eyes(I need a better name for this..)= part of a captains rei added on to that)--seeing my view that bya. was most likely above an avg captain and Ichigo roughly matched up with him.--basic for that is if he is actually famous among the captains(according to Ganju-- and Kariya if you count anime)he probably would be stronger than the norm. So if he could use his full power (which includes the blue) and use hollow at full, rather than just his normal full+ hollow or almost out of hollow against grim. +blue that he would have more str. than Aizen (if he is 'only' 2x that is)-- but even in the case that he had 50% more str than Aizen if he only used it with 50% efficiency then yeah.. screwed even in terms of power-- but i can't guess until we see Aizen fight the old man(hopefully) since thats is the only fight i can see that would at least somewhat allow us to see how he fights seriously.Worldninja

Why does about everyone think Ichigo can beat Aizen. Is it because of Ichigo hasn't seen Aizen shikai. Aizen can fight other ways. Is it because of what Retsu said about how much spiritual power Ichigo has. Aizen has alot of spiritual power to. I think the main reason is hollow Ichigo's new form, that is the main reason right there. Ichigo doesn't know how to control or go into this new hollow form. Ichigo's power level at most with him in control he might could beat Nnoitra Jiruga, but four and up hollow Ichigo has to save the day. Aizen true power has not been seen, he hasn't used his bankai, but the main reason is there is so many unanswered question leave on bleach. Saying of questions I have a quick one. Why does everyone use Sosuke's last name Aizen, but not his first name Sosuke.Flaminghorse November 24 2009

Aizen's Plan To Get The King's Key
You know how Aizen needs souls to sacrifice to get the souls to get the King's Key? You know how Yammy absorbs souls with his Gonzui technique? Since Yammy has become extremely large because of his release form, that would mean he had to have collected many souls. What if by Yammy's death, it would trigger a trap where all the souls he took would wind up giving Aizen all he needs to collect the Key? It may be far-fetched, but considering that Yammy may die soon, Aizen may have planned this from the start. He knew Yammy would fail against the Shinigami, but either way he still gets the souls needed for his plan. Is it possible for this to happen?

Any thoughts on this? TheDivineOne 23:32, November 12, 2009 (UTC) TheDivineOne

Well considering that I put Aizen on the lvl of planning out his forces with specific opponents in mind. (1= Kyoraku(sim people) 2= Unohara (opposite powers) 3= Ukitake(too many atks to deflect back/make it a stamina battle) 4=Byak. (spd already proved effective at dodging + regen= not slowing down due to bones breaking like Ichigo did+strong atk power= even if your caught can get out) 5=Kenpachi (high def vs high atk) 6=Soi fong(healing doesn't help if its guarented to kill), himself=cap. com.(can't use your pwr if you can't even know who your atking) Tousen=Komamura (high but slow atk vs makes you blind-- you can't even tell where i am and have to randomly atk me in all directions)Gin= Toshiro (more exp. genius) 7th= Yoruichi (spd vs spd-- either that or switch 6 and 7..) 8th= Mayuri (sci. vs sci.) 9th= vicecapts for +str 0/10= Vaizards (watch and despair at even using the 'gifts' I gave you, you are helpful at my feet) Wonder.= Urahara (austic= could be genius= probably not very predictable even for Urahara) and also having the insurance of at least a few decent frac.-- since anyone who served the previous king would probably not be put in the Espada (so they could negate 'stronger than their ranks Yumi./Ikkaku/Renji) = Your thought sounds great:O

With the way some stories go, I would believe it if they said that Aizen took a job at the academy in calig. just to get an understanding of the majority of the forces available to Soul Society or that the reason he let the 3 tops fight was BECAUSE he wanted them to die-- put them against foes they couldn't beat(in total) to let them stop being threats to him (since most likely they were the only ones close enough to his lvl to actually be threats-- with the senior captains/cap. com. being soul society, and the captains of the vaizard being the threats within that group)-- so mm. It sounds very possible to me, wonderful thought:OWorldninja

Aizen and Ichigo's Zanpakutos' names
So I'm not sure if anyone else has brought this up before, but what do people think of the names of Aizen's and Ichigo's zanpakto? Aizen's is "Mirror flower, Water moon" while Ichigo's is "Moon Cutter" (or some combination of those words). Is this a tipoff by Kubo that Ichigo's purpose is just to bring down Aizen? Or that they're meant to battle? ideas anyone? --Ihaveaname 03:29, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well by fiat they're destined to battle anyways, Ichigo being the protagonist and Aizen being the antagonist. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:TR.jpg|19px]] 23:15, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

I understand what you mean. What I'm trying to get at though is does it seem possible that in the way the names are, does it seem like theres some aspect of ichigo's power that makes him better suited to take on aizen? --Ihaveaname 20:02, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

Well the best way to beat someone who (as far as well know) predicts everything before he moves and is great at revising plans mid step as well would be someone unpredictable. Ichigo's bankai = too small, his hollow= changes (in a way that the orig could have sym. hollow, and the one he had with the vizard= looks almmost the same size as adju. and the most recent 2 horned one= human sized and 2 horned as well)-- his hollow may be odd enough that it evolves (unlike the other Vaizards hollows)--speculation, and the way his actual powers are. In terms of power both his high reiyoku and the strength of his swd has been noted, in terms of speed his bankai not only compresses(which adds power) his power, but that in itself adds to his speed as well, and if your talking in terms of sudden surprises-- (blue eyes glowing, getting the 'hang' of something mid battle, or suddenly standing up after getting the bleep beaten out of him o.o;;), then Ichigo is your man. Add that, as he came onto the scene recently, he would have had the least chance to gain data on him-- so the most margin for error if he were to fight him. Of course, this is only if Aizen fights the same way he plans, otherwise.. well +spd/pwr helps you when your trying to take downa foe fast so they can't get you to see their swd-- is all I can think of..Worldninja

The upcoming fight with Ichigo VS Aizen
Ichigo will like totally pwn Aizen I meen he will like so totaly go "BANKAI!" And be all kike "GETSUGA TENSHOU!!!!!" But Aizen will block and he will be all like "Kurosaki Ichigo... You realy are a bad Shinigami..." Then Ichigo will be like fine then have a look at this!!!!! and uses his hollow powers and he will blow him away. And then everything will be awsome.

Existing Topics
The following are currently active topics that are still open and available for discussion. Twocents 21:03, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

How Aizen Mocks the Vizard
I read chapter 376 o two different websites,and on one of them,he called the Vizards "Pseudo Arrancarr". Can this be in place of Wannabe Arrancarrs?

Sting! TenRyuoh! 03:36, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Both imply fake. But it's a silly statement to make, seeing how real shinigami captains can pwn espada so easily. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 15:45, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Aizen: Cunning or Crazy?
Okay, i'm posting this forum to talk about Aizens impeccable strategic decisions(or lack there of). Early on in the series Aizen was one of my favorite characters(I am now ashamed to admit this). I found him interesting, powerful, & quite cunning. For me he just didn't seem like the typical villain. For the past 100+ years he has successfully tricked & manipulated the other Shinigami to serve his desires. At the beginning of the series he successfully laid traps for Toshiro, Momo, & Izuru which all were successful. he then defeated Renji, Ichigo, & Sajin & retrieved the Hogyoku, & had an escape plan just in case. In a rather short amount of time he had amassed a rather large & impressive amry of Arrancar & created 10 truly powerful arrancar known as the Espada. Within the past year we have watched as he has sat by & let his army literally be annihilated. When Ichigo(whom Aizen knows is quite powerful) & his group invade Hueco Mundo he sends some of his weakest men to take them down. After Dordoniis death he actually insults Ichigo saying he thought Ichigo could have killed Dordonii easier. What he should have done was have Tosen, Nnoitra, Grimmjow, & Ulquiorra Eliminate them as quickly as possible. Still Aaroneiro was the only espada lost to Ichigos gang. Then unexpectedly 4 captains come to rescue Ichigo & co. Instead sending the rest of the Espada to annihilate a significantly smaller force, he just stands by & lets 3 more Espada die & then congratulates the enemy for killing them(I mean WTF dude). Afterwards he claims to have anticipated this & traps them in Hueco Mundo while he takes his top 3 espada to fight with the stronger & more numeros Shinigami captains, including Yamamoto himself. During all this he does something I still can't figure out. He leaves Ulquiorra & Yammy behind to die. Why? We all know hes not planning to return to Hueco Mundo. He successfully trapped 4 captains & Ichigo's group in Hueco Mundo. I think we all know Aizen has the Hogyoku on him. Hes not stupid enough to leave it he most precious possession unguarded. I mean Aizen has let Tosen cut off Grimmjows arm, watched as Grimmjow killed Luppi, Killed Hallibel himself, & left Ulquiorra & Yammy to die(we all know Yammys a goner). I mean Yammy is outnumbered 3 to 1 right now, not counting Ichigo, Uryu & the 4 captains not far away. So far Aizen seems completely nuts & in my opinion has gambled away his only chance to kill Ichigo & his young & still inexperienced friends. Ichigo is reaching new plateaus of power & at this rate will become stronger then Aizen is. So what do u guys think is Aizen really cunning or just plain crazy? Minato88 21:30, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

First off, I hate how Ichigo is getting real strong real fast. It kind of pisses me off because in the latest chapter, it seems that Shinji is relying on Ichigo (I know that he's trying to get Hiyori fixed up ASAP). Ugh, sometimes I hate protagonists!

Both. It seems to me he is crazier now, unless he's managed to gather the Vasto Lorde. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 23:20, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Everything seems really far fetched at this point. His strategy is nuts but if you stop and think about it a little, you can see some stuff. He scathered and trapped 4 captains and Ichigo's group in Hueco Mundo, managed to hurt and maybe incapacitate 2 captains (Soi Fon is in bad shape and so far Ukitake seems out of action) and probably all lieutenants but Kira (Hisagi was up only by his willforce, I suppose). Sure, we all thought that although he trapped some people in Hueco Mundo, he was still outnumbered greatly, especially when the Vizards arrived. But it seemed we were getting ahead of ourselves cause Hachi had to lose an arm to end Barragan (and apparently he's useless at kido without both hands), and Rose & Love weren't a match for Starrk and were struggling til Kyoraku interfered. Mashiro took some fine jabs to the face and Kensei had to release bankai to fight Wonderweiss. When Hiyori was cut in half and Shinji went for her, I thought Tousen was gonna pop out and bash him as well. It would've being 2 down then.. dunno what's gonna happen next but Shinji isn't concentrated, focused on the battle and everyone else is just afraid of approaching Aizen. If he does bring the Vasto Lordes.. things will turn hardcore.. Deimonos 23:26, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

I doubt he has Vasto Lordes in reserve, Aizen doesn't seem like the kind of leader (or maniacal genius) to dirty his hands when he has others to do it for him. And the Espada have taken a toll on the Gotei and Vizards, not as much as they were supposed to but nonetheless, the elimination of Hachi's healing powers was a strategic stroke of luck. I think now he's just going to be relying on his own powers. As for Shinji I doubt he'll be taken by surprise by something like that, Hiyori was just impatient and impulsive. I think it's come down to the boss fight finally but we have to go back to Hueco Mundo so that the main character can participate. Personally I like this, the story's no fun if the protagonist isn't capable of beating everyone and looking awesome at the same time :P BollyW 23:43, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

i can't wait till it gets back to hueco mundo,and maybe we'll get to see unohana's bankai(or shikai as i think what we'v seen is too big to be a shikai). and i can't say my self what aizen is doing with the espada.Soul reaper magnum 07:11, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Well I already said it in another topic but, I think he planned to get the top 3 killed. As soon as I knew Ulq. was 4th i already thought he had plans on who was to fight who-- some of which went as planned others didn't, but then he made a modification to that and decided to get all 10 killed with certainty, rather than just the top 3 (since he planned to replace those not of Vasto lord lvl anyway). Since basically the cap. com, higher captains, higher Espada, the captains among the vaizards, Wonderweiss(debateable), Gin/Tousen, and Ichigos group are basically the only people able to fight on a semi-even ground with him, Letting #3 die (since she was 'only' fighting Toshiro (who lost enough reiyoku to make Gin def. win)), is perfectly fine. Since Toshiro was commented as maybe becoming Kyorakus lvl in 100yrs, think of Gin who had 60->70 more years of training than him, as well as (potentially) personal training by one of the stronger captain lvled individuals (at least he sure seemed that way..)? -- I always felt that regardless of the all 80 stats, that he would be relatively a decent match against a senior captain (so slightly fatigued Gin vs 'lets give Ukitake a turn')(baibai Gin) and let Tousen fight Komamura(blind the slow guy+ hisagi-- and if he lives send him against someone else(baibai Tousen). And during this time, Wonderweiss goes away fighting too many foes(if other Vaizard join in), or beats one of the captain lvled vizard then goes against another (baibai W.W.) Then after taking down Yamamoto, Aizen only has 3 tired senior captains, tired Kensei, and Shinji/Love at full at the worse (for him), and most of the other captains either taken out or tired as well.  It wouldn't surprise me if his zanpakuto affects people on the basis of comparative reiatsu str.-- that you won't (like Unohara noticed the body was odd) notice anything at all if your rei. is a certain lvl below his. So it could just be that weakening them= the same to him as defeating them. Now Unahara and Co have yet to make an appearance so I expect at least one other surprise for when they come over-- as the shining last hope (since someone has to save Ichigo so he can do his normal fight the final boss of the arc more than once thing)-- at least thats how I looked at him hollow-->Gillian (a hidden glowing eyed power) fighting Byak.(To master the sword and intro the mask giving pwr arc), Grim.(The mask arc), Ulqui. (Perfecting the mask and intro. new pwr (hollows 'full' power) arc), and Aizen (*Inserts in new pwr* arc)-- basically the pattern of as soon as one power is 'mastered' introducing a new one at the same time as he beats a major force (repective to where he is at the moment)-- Or was I the only one who thought the Gillian was like a boss:<??Worldninja

How Could Aizen be Beaten?
I started to think about ways to beat Aizen, and only 2 ways came up to my mind. Firstly, someone unaffected by Aizens shikai. That would mean that someone that haven't seen his shikai yet would beat him blindfolded or ofc someone born blind would kick his butt. I came up with another idea as well: If Aizen could be trapped somewhere. His shikai doesn't change the reality at all, just creates illusions. Therefore if someone could create impenetrable cage around him, he wouldn't be able to escape. Yamamoto's attack at the beginning of FKT was like this, but it could be made of anything that Aizen couldn't penetrate.

Can you think of any other ways to defeat Aizen? Akeki 17:52, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Well you would have to figure by now that everyone is well aware of what his zanpakuto is capable, also it the one thing he uses primarily and is literally his ace in the hole otherwise he wouldn't be able to do half of what he does. Such as demanding the the servitude of Barragan and so forth. It also begs the question if he had to use it against Hitsugaya and Komamura how dangerous is he really did he want to get it over quick or was he concerned that it would be tough to fight them in a fair fight. Who knows. In any case my point being that his saving grace is that zanpakuto, we all imagine what his bankai is but its really weird considering how powerful the shikai is why wouldnt he take everyone out from day one in the soul society arc, why such an elaborate plot spanning 100 years. We know Tosen is not affected by his shikai and id have to guess that the Gotei 13 and the Vizard must have a way of countering it by now the Vizard have had 100 years to come up with something and the Gotei 13 have had a few months. Im sure Mayuri, Urahara or someone had to come up with something. I figure take his zanpakuto out of the equation and he wont last much against the powers against him. The only two i fully remember him using it on and then deactivating the effect was captain Unohana and It. Kotetsu everyone else maybe still subject to his influence assuming everyone has seen it. Noticeably we never see him activate it even with Barragan he tells him to just look at it then he says the command and its shown what Tosen and Gin has done to his army. We see him use no command with facing either hitsugaya, komamura, or Harribel. There must be some apparent flaw if he didn't just take over. While it has absolute hypnosis via sight it obviously has no power over the blind. There is something where missing im not sure what it is.Salubri 18:15, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Thus far it seems to only true way to beat Aizen is with superior numbers, which the Shinigami & Vizards do have. At this point they need to focus on taking out Gin & Tosen as fast as possible & gang up on Aizen. In the pendulum arc we saw Shinji break throught at least one of Aizens hypnosis spells, so even though Aizen says it power is absolute this might be a bluff on his part. I agree with Salubri Kisuke & his group haven't been seen yet & i'm sure their up to something. As far as Aizens Zanpakuto it seems completely different from other Shinigami Zanpakuto we've seen. Everytime he calls out its release command Shatter it was already released & it actually seems like he is instead sealing it. Maybe he usually keeps it released so he can get the drop on his opponents. Who can say for sure, since we don't know just how strong he & Gin really are. Minato88 18:28, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

If his shikai allows him to deceive his enemies with illusions, the logical extension of his bankai is that, when activated, he can make his illusions reality, as in bending reality to his will. If that is the case, I don't know how someone is going to beat Aizen. --Shinitenshi 03:04, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

I doubt that his Bankai has such an ability. If it did, he could easily create de Oken or destroy the town withouth the Espadas. It's too extreme. About how to defeat him... well it's obvious! Old-Dragon-Shiryu-style! Poke Ichigo's eyes out of his head! Ok, just kidding. Unless making himself blind (Old-Dragon-Shiryu-style) I really can't think for a way to defeat him. Though this "absolute hypnosis" being activated after someone seeing his release is a bit inconsistent. I don't remember Ichigo ever seeing Kyoka Suigetsu's "Shatter" moment, maybe I just forgot, correct me if I'm wrong in that last one. Lia Schiffer 03:17, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

I think the key to defeating Aizen is knowledge. He commented that Unohana was able to detect subtle flaws with his "body" and commented to Shinji that if he got to know Aizen better then he would have noticed that there was something wrong with the Aizen that was following him around Seireitei for a month. So I think if you know, really know Aizen then you can see through his hypnosis. But since Kubo has said he is going to keep the past of Aizen mystery we are not going to have a Harry Potter and the half-blood prince sort of deal where Ichigo is told Aizen's past and thus begins to understand how Aizen thinks and using that knowledge defeats him. So I think it's going to come down to instinct. Ichigo has demonstrated he has a instinctive grasp of many things. So he might be able to defeat Aizen by relying on an ability outside his five senses. Of course that is assuming Ichigo is the one to defeat Aizen. It might be a team effort, especially if Kubo let's Aizen ascend to the thrown of heaven. But that might be a bit too video game-like. You know, the big final boss fight happens just when the main villain get's what he wants i.e. god-like power, but before he can fully master it and thus giving mere mortals a final shot at defeating him. Tinni 03:54, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

i think Aizen would get the power he wants, but he overlods his self when he use it.

No that notion wouldn't work Aizen cant win if the spirit king is defeated thats the end of existence even if they did defeat him in that scenario. Someone has to fill that role. There is obviously a reason the king exists and the role he plays is greater then we probably realize or even aizen is capable of realizing for that matter. The biggest weakness aizen has much like his espada is that he is extremely arrogant. He overestimates his skills and those who are under him and underestimates everyone else's power. He didn't think Ichigo would be a danger when he entered hueco mundo, he underestimates the danger the vizards pose. He acknowledge the cleverness of Urahara and even though Urahara makes the hogyoku, he still underestimates his understanding of his own creation or that he would even be able to use it. He figures with the four captains trapped he can take out the others and defeat the Gotei 13, yet what makes no sense is that if he is so powerful why didnt he do that from jump. I say kill gin and Tosen and see how long he can last by himself.Salubri 06:21, October 9, 2009 (UTC)

Well I got to say, the recent chapters haven't done much for Aizen's "street creed". I mean I am not saying either Gin or Tosen acted out of character. Tosen is so devoted to Aizen that he would step in and try to take out Shinji when Shinji attacked Aizen. Gin seems to be doing everything for shits and giggles at the moment, which fits in with his sadistic personality but both him and Tosen stepping-in to "protect" Aizen really is making Aizen look... weak is not the right word but certainly Aizen's cool factor has been lowered somewhat, I feel. I really think it's high time Aizen pwned someone actually worth pwning because let's face it, Harribel was one the least impressive espada and I don't know about anyone else but when Aizen took her out I was like "o thank god! We don't have to watch fight anymore". Tinni 11:17, October 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * I forecast either Tosen killing Aizen, or someone inside Tosen's Bankai killing Aizen. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:TR.jpg|19px]] 01:36, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Momo dealing the final blow would be a cool twist. -- Tha Reckoning  [[Image:TR.jpg|19px]] 23:16, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Aizen could be killed by Ichigo if Ichigo gained control over his spiritual powers, mastered his hollow powers, and if Ichigo were given a real shingami training and if Aizen killed Ichigo's friends and family. FlamingHorse, 7:26 November 13, 2009

Kisuke and Aizen
i was thinking that maybe aizen is from the soul kings dimension and that urahara was sent to watch him and try to stop him if he did anything. what do you think?Soul reaper magnum 14:00, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

No. Ergroilnin 15:47, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

guess that was a little much. still i wonder how kisuke knows all that he does.Soul reaper magnum 16:55, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

What exactly does he know that's such an issue.Salubri 17:48, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

srry, guess this wasn't the best idea i'v had.Soul reaper magnum 22:53, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

How Did Aizen Get So Strong?
OK, so I've been wondering this for a while, and now that I've gone through the Turn Back the Pendulum arc it's the biggest mystery to me right now. Think about it, what did he do that made him so much more powerful, unless it is somehow related to his zanpakto's ability and everyone is "hypnotized" to believe he's that strong. Or is it even a case that maybe the Aizen we see isn't the real Aizen? Still so much mystery...--Ihaveaname 17:50, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

His true age is unknown. Perhaps he's simply been training up his strength for a very long time. ZeroSD 18:31, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Do villains ever just train? There's got to be some secert. --Ihaveaname 21:18, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Aizen had been a shinigami captain prior to his defection to becoming the leader of the arrancar; this would mean that he would've have to obtained his bankai as well possess a reasonable level of skill in shunpo, kido, swordplay and hand to hand combat; he did state himself that he was at the peak of these areas. He was shown to the be captain of the 5th when Renji, Rukia, and Izuru were still in the academy and 110 years ago it's lieutenant under Shinji. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that Aizen was probably training himself before he become a lieutenant and time before he became captain as well as probably formulating his plans regarding the Hogoku since he does like to think long term.Spacedone 01:31, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

That's what I pointed out once in another thread. When you have characters that are so old, comparing one to another is inevitable. You get senior captains like Unohana, Ukitake, Kyoraku and Yama-ji with their 2000+ years and you just wonder how could Aizen do so much damage since he's clearly younger than them.. So unless Aizen had been using his illusions to lay low for centuries or even a couple of millenniums til his face off with Urahara and Tessai, everything seems just too far fetched and beyong plausible explanation.. Take Ichigo, for an example. His bout with Byakuya ended in a draw. Ok, Byakuya probably evolved a bit but not as much as Ichigo. I'm not sure if masked Ichigo could bash Byakuya to oblivion but his chest hollowed weird transformation form thing.. I assume that one could obliterate Byakuya in no time. And all of that by a 15-16 who's got Shinigami powers in less than a year against a full fledged Shinigami who's 100+ times older than him, maybe more.. Basically, reasonable and plausible explanations do not fit in this anime.. Deimonos 03:17, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

Aizen himself said that Shinigami abilities max-out after a certain point. I would bet that Aizen held back on his skills, not becoming a Captain until he was ready to put his plan into place and he was good enough with his shikai to hypnotize everyone, but he doesn't need Kyoraku/Unohana/etc.'s time because they pretty much maxed out a very long time ago, in every area they worked to. Byakuya's younger still and he's pretty good in almost everything. Between some holding back in front of others and pressing hard in real training, and natural genius... I could see it. ZeroSD 03:28, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * We do know that amongst captains themselves they vary in power compared to each other, how that power is measured is hard to say since we only have statements made by the captains themselves or the battles they have taken part in to serve as reference. Yamamoto is the strongest given his age and related experience to the others as well founding the academy and personally training Ukitake and Shunsui stating they were stronger than any captain past or present. Unohana's probably pretty strong herself being one of the older captains though we have yet to see her fight. Zaraki is one strongest in terms of raw combat power despite not using kido or shunpo, but the 11th specializes in melee combat anyway. Love was shown to have faced off against a Hollowfied Kensei without releasing his shikai, no small feat since the hollow mask boost the strength and speed of the user.Spacedone 06:17, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps he's like Hitsugaya and Ichigo; he naturally progresses quickly... and he's a lot older than those two as well. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) 17:27, September 12, 2009 (UTC)

Were the other Captains fully aware of Aizen's abilities? I'm not talking about Kyouka Suigetsu, since they thought it was a running water-type zanpakutou. I'm talking about his other skills.
 * 110 years ago, Shinji did suspect Aizen was up to something though it wasn't exactly explained nor do we know if Shinji was aware of all of Aizen's abilities. While Shinji made Aizen his lieutenant to watch him, he also kept him at a distance so he didn't know him that well. Still, he had to have some inkling of Aizen's abilities in order request him as his lieutenant since there are probably other prerequisites for becoming one aside from knowing shikai.Spacedone 07:41, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

No they were not because if they were aware of it, they wouldn't be so surprised about his immesense power. (For example, 1 shotting Toushiro in Bankai, 1 shotting Komamura with Black coffin without incantation, stopping Tessai's kido by lower kido without incantation 101 years ago as a lieutenant etc.) Ergroilnin 06:45, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Aizen falls under the age group of these captains/former captains excluding the Vizard (You could probably assume that 5 of the 8 Vizard (Excluding Ichigo) Are in the same age bracket. And the ones left are Hachi, Hiyori and Mashiro

In human years they are probably roughly in there Mid 30s to early 40s Sajin Komamura Kaname Tōsen Kisuke Urahara Yoruichi Shihōin Kenpachi Zaraki Mayuri Kurotsuchi

The only person in this group that is well rounded in all aspects of combat other than Aizen is Kisuke Urahara. So I guess they progressed far greater than the others for various reasons.Heruga59 05:55, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

Possibly Yoruichi too- she's good at HtH and Kido and speed (*the best* at speed), and we haven't seen her with a sword so she could be great there too.

Age is hard to judge in soul society, though, and throw in illusion powers on top...ZeroSD 06:58, September 15, 2009 (UTC)

EXACTLY!!!!--Ihaveaname 04:25, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Well if Gin at least got to the lvl of kicking 3rd seat like it was natural in a year, and we place Aizen at that lvl (basically doing Aizen= Gin= Toshiro(in terms of speed of learning as 'geniuses'-- even though Aizen would be a hidden genius)= Toshiro may become stronger than Kyoraku in 100 yrs-- and take that Gin had 70 more years and Aizen was already probably at least Gins current age (meaning he had 170 yrs min)then you get how he got so strong pretty easily-- he had an extra 70 years~--- Basically time+ Genius

So he could go from a mere vicecap. unincanted took my kido (so basically captain lvl at that point)--->He took down some of the weaker captains without much effort(in that unprepared= weaker than norm.). So he could have gained the lvl of skill to be beyond Kyorakus lvl in skill +having more reiyoku than any of the captains (in other words natural genius at learning + largest latent reiyoku reserves)= win. Or Time+ Natural Power (Since your reiyoku at least doesn't seem to increase largely-- in that you have to be 'born with the power to bankai'--So someone born with say 1million power(Aizen/Ichigos double captain) would be far better off than someone who maxed their skills as much as they could but hit a limit due to only naturally only having 1thousand power(poor unseated sewer cleaner:\),someone born a few hundred yrs ago but with 500k norm cap lvl (Youruichi), and still better than even someone with stronger than anyone in his fam. 600-->700k (Byak.) who only had maybe 200 years (if we take rukias 10 lifes to equal 150 at least) and still better off than 750k (Toshiro--since he is a once a cen. genius) who only had 40 years at the most-- and since we don't know anything at all on Yamamoto, he could have started off 2100(i at least hope he wasn't a little kid when he started the academy..) years ago at 300k midvicecaptain lvl but by gaining 333 1/3 reiyoku on avg per year (aka= 3years=1k =you can clean sewers for 300years before reaching vicecaptain lvl-- which actually sounds reasonable to me-- since too much more gainable and captain lvls wouldn't be so rare, while too much less and people would pretty much just be surpassed every generation due to reaching their limit and not being able to go anywhere ever) and you get it. Well at the rate I just said, to get 1million from nothing would be 3000years-- and if the rate is less(or their are limits to the amt you can grow over your original birth amt) then anyone born with anything near 2x an avg captains lvl would find him/herself absurdly strong given a few hundred years of doing almost nothing.-Or basically, the rate of gaining reiyoku= fail so, Large Natural Reserves= WinWorldninja

His Trap
Since Kyōka Suigetsu places anyone who witnesses it under hypnosis is it possible that when Aizen relased it when he killed Harribel that he put everyone under it's influence?--SalmanH 16:41, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

I dont think he released the sword on Harribel. I think he already done that before the left HM. From my understanding is the once you first veiw the release you are alway under its spell. So if he released it in HC to the Arrancar then he could have used the illusion while out of HM.Tealang99 18:31, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense but when she attacked him a sort of mirror appeared and shattered but would he have really done so to the espada it would have been more likely used it on the Gotei 13, Aizen's arrogant but not stupid he definitely has something up his sleeve and if it's not this then it must be something else I don't think that even he, Ichimaru and Tosen would go against those guys alone.--SalmanH 18:54, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

I recently posted a forum called Aizen Cunning or Crazy. Not many replied, but I pointed that Aizen, thus far is lacking in leadership abilities & is the worst General to have ever lived. No I don't think he used it on the Gotei 13 & believe me when I say I wish he had. I liked the Espada & i'm sad there gone. Still, Aizen is quickly QUICKLY throwing away his chance for victory. He has yet to kill a single captain, lost almost all of his Espada, & he hasn't even created the oken or infiltrated the Soul Kings realm(where he will be faced with Squad 0, the Soul Kings Elite Body Guards which is comprised of nothing but the most exceptional of captain level Shinigami). Minato88 19:34, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

I though he did already released his zanpakuto in front of most the Gotei 13 there already thats why he fooled them all stealing the Hogyokuya( excuse the spelling). Thats why shniji warned Hiyori not rush in because of his illusions. Now if the a illusion caused her to get cut in half we dont know. We will have to wait and see. But for the most part all those fighting currently can be fooled by Aizen's illusions.Tealang99 20:34, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

That actually makes me wonder, besides Tosen, who hasn't seen Aizen's release? The Vizards (Visoreds or however it's suppposed to be spelled), all of the Gotei 13 (I'm assuming this is correct) have. Now have Ichigo and his friends (including Kiskue, Isshin etc) also been exposed to it? --Ihaveaname 20:46, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

Urahara and Tessai for sure are victims. Isshin we dont know because we dont know the time period he was a Captian or even if was Captain(Royal Guard?). Ichigo I dont think so because Aizen met him durigh the Rescue Rukia arc and he never released his Zanpakuto to him during that time. Ichigo and friends are questionable.Tealang99 20:58, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

I don't think its possible for an illusion to cut somebody in half, that was the real Gin. There would be no reason to fake Hiyori being cut in half, it would be a waste of time & energy. Yes all of the Vizard, the Shinigami Caps & Liues have been exposed to it. I don't know if Kisuke or Isshin have, but its possible Ichigo has. Ichigo had a slight confrontation with Aizen in ep 62 & eventhough we didn't see or hear Aizen release his Zanpakuto, but Aizens way of hypnotizing people is still confusing to me. I don't think Chad & the others got close enough to be hypnotized by his Zanpakuto. Minato88 21:00, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

I didnt say that actual illusion cut her. What I mean is if the illusion caused her not to notice Gin and his attack. I mean she didnt even notice she was cut until a little while. I mean the speed of her attack caused her upper half to get a good bit of distance from her lower half before she noticed. So thats why I think its possible for the illusion to play a part in the attack.Tealang99 23:43, October 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually no, if you look carefully at Hiyori's eyes in the top panel of this page you can see Shinsou reflected in her eyes. This is how Shinsou is usually depicted  and indicates that she did see it coming but couldn't dodge it. Tinni 00:03, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Technically Aizen has at least removed several combatants from battle, Soifon and Hachi are borderline useless, Jushiro is either dead or unconcious from blood loss, Hiyori is obviously defeated, Rose and Love are heavily wounded, the Gotei 13 is losing and with Aizen's ability things are looking poor for them.

I did not see the reflection in her eyes. All I seen was that she realized that she was cut then noticed that her lower half was behind her. Maybe I am missing the reflection but I dont see it.Tealang99 13:52, October 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know what to tell you. It's definitely there. You'll also notice that at that point Hiyori is looking straight ahead and not towards her cut limbs or anything. In addition, Gin seems to have been standing behind Aizen. Gin Shinsou is just that fast and Hiyori, who was focused exclusively on Aizen, just didn't see it coming till the last minute. No illusion at work. Just Gin and Shinsou being Gin and Shinsou. Tinni 14:21, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

While you're known bias towards Gin is well known :P I agree with you, Hiyori was too focused on Aizen and Gin is just too good. Hiyori acted foolishly and to accuse Aizen and Gin of somehow "cheating" is a bit unfair as there are far worse and more accurate things to call them. In this case they were no worse than the Gotei 13. Although our reaction is biased as the injury is so much more graphic and brutal than any we've seen to the Espada. BollyW 05:46, October 15, 2009 (UTC)