Talk:Isshin Kurosaki

Typo
Lastest manga info, keeping ichigo quiet", not "quite". i cant edit the typo as the page is locked. Cepheids 08:01, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Some edits
I just went through and corrected a ton of grammatical errors in the synopsis and abilities sections, and took out a few obvious speculations (such as a line stating that Isshin was definitely a captain, and a line that said that Urahara considers Isshin his superior (they talked as equals as far as I can tell). CorpusDei 21:19, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Immense instead of Vast
Just to let anyone wondering know, I changed it because he was a former captain it is very likely that he can control his reiatsu like one and the reason why Shinji and Ichigo felt it was because he was still regaining his powers so it stands to reason that it would leak he hasn't been a shinigami in over 20 years and as you could plainly see they did not sense Urahara.--SalmanH 10:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Isshin Shiba
Have I missed something? From where did the rumor Isshin Shiba come? I haven't heard anything about this. --Shinitenshi 04:23, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Speculation of a fan, which is now removed, due to no sustainable evidence to support this theory. It stays gone, since there was not even a hint of this happening. Arrancar109 04:30, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

I figured as much. --Shinitenshi 05:31, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

his own arc
isshin will be having his 2 own arcs after the fk arc finishes,kubo stated it in a recent interview. User:Twelve


 * I wouldn't call this a trivia point, but I do want to see a verifiable source to see where this is stated. I mean, I won't put it past Kubo to do it, since he did go in-depth about the Vizards' history, but still, I want to see which issue of Shonen Jump or elsewhere of where the interview happened. And if it turns out to be true, then we'll finally get to see Isshin's history. Arrancar109 20:50, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

It was in a recent TV interview that he did on some Japanese chat show. And (as usual with the internet) what he said has been distorted. People get carried away with Isshin too easily. Details of the interview can be found on BleachAssylum's general Bleach section, or BleachExile's Bleach manga section. I believe there is a video of it linked on BA for those that understand Japanese.

KT calls the current arc the "Arrancar arc" - so that means, unlike us, he does not appear to consider the switching of events from HM to FKT and back as separate arcs. The whole story since Aizen abandoned Soul Society is the same arc according to him. So the end of the battles in Fake Karakura Town is not an indication of when this will actually happen. This arc (whenever it does finally end) will be followed by a shortish arc (no indication of how short, but 50 chapters would be considered short compared to his definition of the "Arrancar arc"), then there will be an arc in which Isshin will play a more prominent role. No further details were given by KT. He did not say that the arc will be about him, just featuring him in a bigger role than before. --Yyp 21:19, October 12, 2009 (UTC)

Isshin looking better in black
Please stop changing the wording on that trivia regarding Isshin looking better in black. I quote, from Isshin profile Volume 3, "He was actually supposed to be a mortician instead of a doctor until the very last minute this manga was published. So he looks better in a black suit then a white gown". I.e. Kubo made a character that looked good in black because he was going to make him into a mortician but then changed him to a doctor. NOT made a character that he thought looked good in black and so was going to make him into a mortician. It might be just semantics but one is correct and the other is wrong! Tinni 08:10, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Updates
I don't have a source but I know that in an interview Tite Kubo himself has revelaed that Isshin is the former 0 Squad captain, the job was later replaced by Hiyori's former captain, the one whose place was replaced by Urahara. - KingBlackChicken.

Uh... that really sounds like it's rumor/misinterpretation. Yeah, we need an actual source for this interview; otherwise, as far as we're concerned, it's nothing more than something that's considered made-up/untrue. Arrancar109 (Talk)  01:18, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

That is what a friend told me, he's a reliable friend and I trust him that he is not lying. Well, I will ask him for some information sources and see if he can get any. -KingBlackChicken

That might be a misinterpretation then, because, aside from arc-ending dates and some brief description on future arcs, Kubo is not known to announce spoilers for his own story. Arrancar109 (Talk)  01:23, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

I see, I still will ask my friend and see if it's true, just to be sure. -KingBlackChicken

I apologize, turns out my friend was bluffing, instead of saying he read this from a Tite Kubo's interiew, now he's saying he knew it by "common sense". He also said he read it from Wikipedia but I checked all related links and find that Isshin's former role was actualy Undertermined. Later he gave me a Link on a "strong proof-based-theory" on why Isshin must be the 0 Squad captain. It's all based on current information. I do not doubt the possibility of isshin being the 0 Squad's Captain, but I'll say there's no proof so far. - KingBlackChicken

OVA as fact?
Hey im not sure if an OVA is considered part of the story or not but i wanted to see what u guys think. Under his enderance it makes reference to the sealed sword frenzy to state that he can take a close range shotgun blast. Even if the OVA is true it should also be removed because the fact that Renji missed so it shouldnt be part of his characteristics in the first place. Because of this im removing it for the moment. If i am wrong feel free to replace it, I'll leave a copy of it here for copy pasta purposes.

Enhanced Endurance: Even without his Shinigami powers, Isshin appears to have the ability to take severe physical punishment (e.g., fighting with Ichigo, getting kicked by Karin, and being in close proximity to Renji's shotgun blast while the 6th Division lieutenant was masquerading as a police officer).

White Flare 22:51, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Profile Image
The current image is rather dark and doesn't show half of his face. I've come across a couple of pictures that I thought I'd suggest, but if anyone has better, please post them here. There is also the question of whether we want an image of him in normal clothes of Shinigami uniform. At this point he has spent more time in normal (human) clothes - that's his look at the moment. -- Yyp (Talk) 11:38, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I'm in support of changing the picture because Isshin is introduced as Ichigo's father and not as a Shinigami. Sure, we know he is a Shinigami but that isn't his usual attire and hasn't been his attire for 20 years or something. Immediately at the beginning of the article there's a picture of him in his Shinigami attire anyway so does defeat the "Isshin as a Shingami" caption under the picture when the profile picture doesn't initially show himas his usual self!! We do need more pics here, maybe one of him kicking Ichigo or crying to Masaki's poster to show his humourous side because most of the pictures have him serious and such!! Sorry just going off on one now, wish I had good programs to do pics for this site SunXia 12:58, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

I found a pic of Isshin from episode 141. I don't particularly like it but I thought I'd put it up anyway. Anyway, out of the pics here I would say Ep142A is the best. TheDevilHand888 20:04, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Ep142B get my support. Tinni  (Talk)  07:26, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

I like the current pic but 142b is good as well--Godisme (Talk)  02:52, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Including myself, that's 3 votes for Ep142B and 1 for Ep142A after a week. I'll change it, but if anyone comes across a better picture, don't hesitate to post it here. -- Yyp (Talk) 13:34, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Not a profile picture, but I noticed that Isshin has absolutely nothing written for the Bount Arc, and maybe we should just have a little something since techinically he appeared and I even had a little image of him as a result of getting hammered by Ichigo after being woken up again!!! SunXia 22:38, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

...I don't want to create another discussion because of this so I'm just gonna put it here Should we add this cover image of Isshin in his article? I would usually add it without hesiation ('Cause it's sooo awesome! X3) but since Byakuya's cover and Shinji's cover hasn't been added to their articles I'm a little reluctant :/ (Thanks! I knew there was something odd going on around this whole cover thing :D)ItzBlitz 01:18, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

First of all sign your posts secondly we have never nor is there any plan to include a manga chapter cover in the articles. It has no place there hence why we have none on any page. Unless you plan to put it on your home page there is no use for it on the site other then possibly in the chapter pages other then that it would be deleted. Salubri (Talk)  00:47, May 5, 2010 (UTC)

New Quote
I think his line about Aizen talking too much should be added to his quotes. It really shows off his personality and gives you a sense of what is to come.-- Godisme  (Talk)  05:34, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

same here.Soul reaper magnum 05:41, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree, it's a pretty random quote, and many characters have said about the same words in different situations up to now. What it says about his personality is beyond me, because I fail to see it, again, it's not a quote that's unique to him, it has been said repeatedly throughout the series. Not to mention that we're not even sure of what he said because the translations differ from one another, "You've said too much" to "You talk too much", two phrases with completely different meaning. I really don't find it worth adding it. Of course it's up to the admins Lia Schiffer 07:01, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Lia is absolutely correct. That quote will not be added as it has zero impact or meaning out of context of the picture and chapter. Quotes must stand on their own and that quote does not stand on its own. It certainly does not provide any insight into Isshin's character. In short, it's a junk quote. Tinni  (Talk)  07:26, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

New abilities
so apparently he can make barriers. Do we consider him a Kido Master? No chants were noted. And apparently he can shoot Aizen with some sort of ability through buildings.

Also flash step. The End 23:00, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Profile will be updated accordingly. The use of an powerful and uncommon barrier would put him up for master level. Unless there was words or a power mentioned it will be considered a physical attack as he did touch him.Salubri (Talk)  23:26, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Salubri- take another look, he never touched Aizen, he touched his own arm. This does not confirm it was kido but the only other option is that he is so strong that the wind from a flick of his finger can knock Aizen that far. I find this highly unlikely. I think it was hado 1 personally but I cannot confirm this. All I can confirm is that Isshin never touched Aizen with his middle finger.--Godisme (Talk)  23:58, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Can somebody put this image in the article? ItzBlitz 00:20, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Could we make it his profile picture? What better way to show his personality as a comedic character by showing his attitude against the strongest threat known to Bleach!

Oh and shouldn't it say somewhere in his abilities section such as the shunpo area that, "He possess enough skill with shunpo which combined with his kido mastery made it impossible for someone of Aizen's level to follow his movements." Prophet of Sanghelios 03:02, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know who it is but someone has put "Isshin then takes his middle finger and flicks it, hitting his own arm which has the affect of pushing Aizen back and sending flying away with enough force that he crashes through two buildings.", now this states that by flicking his finger he hit his other arm and the force of this was strong enough to propel Aizen. But he already had his left hand touching his right arm, so it he couldn't have hit his own arm because there was already contact between the right wrist and the left arm before he actually flicked his finger. Meaning that we are only left with the two options that Godisme mentioned, while I think that he used some sort of Hado like Godisme, since kubo hasn't stated that I think the line should be rewritten to "Isshin then takes his middle finger and flicks it, which has the effect of pushing Aizen back and sending him flying away with enough force that he crashes through two buildings." Warya123456 04:44, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

This needs to be clear saying it was kido is reaching there was no number or name given and even the most powerful kido users state that much if the forego the use of incantation. So it should be reworded to state that he was already touching his arm. There is no proof at all of Kido and as of now its a fan assumption not a fact remotely, unless stated as such. The wording will be changed to reflect the proper situation. Salubri (Talk)  04:56, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

I see what you're saying. Ok, it seems I overlooked that.Warya123456 05:11, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Thats ok thanks for noticing the detail. Much appreciated. Salubri (Talk)  05:17, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

marital status
umm, is it just me but Isshin's marital status says 'widower' suggesting that he killed her. shouldn't we change it to widowed? Tensa Zabimaru 02:46, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

It is just you as widower is the proper term used to refer to a man whose spouse has died. Im note sure where you got the notion thats what widower means or infers.<font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  02:55, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Exactly as Salurbi says, a widower is a person whose spouse has died, it in no way means that you killed anyone. I think somehow you are confusing widower and murderer.--<font color="black" face="Verdana">Godisme <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Talk)  03:28, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Or, likely as not, "widower" and "widowmaker". Maggosh 03:35, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Kendō?
Did Isshin use Kendō on Aizen in the latest chapter? He swung his sword using two hands.--B14 18:15, April 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * It was Getsuga Tensho the same ability that Ichigo uses. He just retained it in his sword similar to what Ichigo does when in bankai Cerez365 15:52, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Above Gillian Class?????
in the Kido master section it's mentioned that Isshin can create charms against "at Least Above Gillian-class Menos"..... correct me if i'm wrong but i assume we're talking about the charm that saved Kon, and that was Grand Fisher, who was not a complete arrancar and also a single hollow before shinigamification. Nick D Wolfwood 11:16, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Yyp  (Talk) 11:19, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Powers and Abilities
I realise that my edit breaks the conventions of presentation on the character pages, but I felt that this was an exceptional case and thus appropriate. Feel free to correct it if necessary, but I feel that the page should include that information somewhere. Mikenyaster 13.55, April 20 (GMT)

There is no place to put speculation in the article. His interactions are shown and stated in the article. We don't add personal opinions about how we think he is faring or what he has accomplished. Everyone in the series accomplishes something or another at a time or another. <font color="4169E1" size="2px">Salubri <font color="4169E1" size="2px">(Talk)  13:19, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Relationships
I know it's a minor thing, but, considering when Isshin talked with him like they were old buddies, shouldn't we add Kisuke to the list? The only ones on his list as his family and Ryuuken. I think Kisuke would make at least a little sense. That being said, I won't do anything until I have permission. So I'll wait for a reply. Pwndulquiorra 22:40, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

I would agree but I don't think we have enough evidence to support that. With Ryuuken there was more than enough to say that they knew each other in the past. However with Urahara, we have one sentence. I don't think that is enough to detail a relationship from--<font color="black" face="Verdana">Godisme <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Talk)  22:58, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

Then can we word it like this?

"Although little is known about their relationship, Kisuke and Isshin seem to know each other very well."

Or something along those lines? If not, I understand. Pwndulquiorra 23:26, April 26, 2010 (UTC)

There simply is not enough that we can write about this to justify adding it, especially when it is so speculative. Maybe we'll find out enough in the upcoming chapters to justify it, but right now, there simply is nothing to write that is not already mentioned in the article. Yyp (Talk) 13:03, April 27, 2010 (UTC)

Understood. I won't press the issue any further.Pwndulquiorra 23:56, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Getsuga Tensho
Before anyone deletes it, yes Isshin does use Getsuga Tensho in Chapter 405, starting on page 19 and ending on page 20. I added it to his Zanpakutō section. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 05:29, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

No one is going to delete Getsuga Tensho, what people are going to delete is any suggestion that Isshin's zanpakuto is Zengetsu. The latter would be speculation. Tinni  (Talk)  05:31, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * I understand. I just wanted to clarify because if I was just a random user looking at the page (also considering the fact that the chapter literally just came out a few minutes ago), I would think it odd that someone added Getsuga to Isshin's page. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 05:36, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is why you should reference what you add. Which, by the way, you did not do. I have added the reference and placed the information under shikai as it should be place. Please be mindful to add information properly next time and reference things properly. Other should not have to go clean-up after you. Tinni   (Talk)  05:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * My apologizes. I work on several fanon wikis, and therefore do not use references and the like that often. I'm trying to help out when I can here, but I seem to fail at that often (I thought I had referenced that correctly). The reason I didn't put it under Shikai is because Isshin hasn't stated he had released nor have we seen him release, therefore his zanpakutō would still be in it's sealed state. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 05:45, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that you are right by putting it under Zanpakutō instead of shikai because of the fact that it hasn't shown him using his shikai. Putting it under shikai is basically speculation (specualting that he has used shikai). klross1 05:50, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

No, what you lot are suggestion is just crack! There has been no instance of a sealed Zanpakuto doing anything. In addition, I might add that people whose zanpakuto do not visually change, such as Aizen, Hitsugaya and even Yama-jii, often release the special ability of their shikai without issuing the shikai command. They have bankai, they don't have to verbalise the shikai. They just use stuff. It's going under shikai and staying under shikai. Tinni  (Talk)  05:54, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Look, I don't think anyone here is trying to start anything, so calm down. For one thing, just because there has been no instance of it up until now does not mean it cannot happen. Before Tosen, there had been no instance of a Shinigami using an Arrancar's release and up until we first saw Shinji do a Cero there was no instance of a Shinigami able to do Cero. It is entirely possible that Isshin is still in the sealed state. Furthermore, there are hints when Hitsugaya and Yama are in shikai. When Hitsugaya is in Shikai, there is a long chain on the end of his hilt and Yama's zanpakuto is lit on fire when released. Isshin has not stated that he is in shikai and there is no visible change in his zanpakuto, so I say it's sealed. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 06:00, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * There is speculation and there is speculation. Yours is the grossest speculation as you cannot cite any previous instance. Plus what you think does not interest me. Unless you can prove to me that Isshin's zanpakuto was still sealed, it went into Shikai when he released Getsuga. Saying that a Zanpakuto automatically went into shikai when a special ability was released is not speculation. It is what happens with all zanpakutos. So in other words, drop it or find evidence. Tinni   (Talk)  06:07, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not trying to cause any problems but why would we put it under shikai if we don't know for sure. Actually, how can you prove that Isshin went into shikai. Ryan can't prove it isn't and neither can you. But as far as we all can see, the sword looks as if its still sealed. Why not just keep it under Zanpakutō until we find out for sure. Putting it under shikai (like I stated before) would be speculation if I'm not mistaken. And by the way Yamamoto does have a technique that he uses without release (Nadegiri), even if it isn't like some type of beam technique or whatever. Just saying. klross1 06:12, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nadegiri is a Zanjutsu technique NOT a zanpakuto technique! It's a special type of cut. Master swords men have special techniques they can use with plain old swords, which is what a sealed zanpakuto essentially is. Please check your facts before persisting to argue. I repeat, no zanpakuto have ever been shown to use a special abiliy without being in shikai. Therefore, it is erring on the side of caution to say that Getsagu Tenso was released in shikai state then to assumed that Isshin somehow used the ability while his zanpakuto was sealed. Once again, drop it or find evidence. Tinni   (Talk)  06:26, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fine. Not really interested in arguing with you in the first place. I'll sniff around and see if I can find any evidence, if not, Oh well. Though I will say this, it'll be interesting if Isshin's zanpakuto does turn out to be Zangetsu, because that would prove it's in it's sealed state. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 06:14, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

All we know is that Isshin used Getsuga. Saying anything else is speculation. Simple as that. Prophet of Sanghelios 06:20, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm with the user above me on this issue. No disrespect to you Tinni, it just seems highly speculative to say it's in Shikai. ~ NOTASTAFF Ryun Uchiha (Ten Tailed Fox, Getsueikirite-taichou) (talk) 06:21, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * And I am saying it is actually highly crack to say that Isshin used a special zanpakuto ability in sealed state. It is not remotely highly speculative to say he used getsuga in shikai. Not to get all bitchy here, but seriously guys, you have no argument beyond your opinions. Find evidence to back them up or drop it already. Tinni   (Talk)  06:26, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Everyone here is specualting because none of us know whether its sealed or not. And not taking into consideration that in the past techniques have never been used outside of shikai. Like I said before, we'll have to wait until more is released. klross1 06:33, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

what about the two arrancars who has shown they can use things in sealed?Faustfan 06:30, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

Tinni, I have to agree with the others here. You are the one speculating. Show me where it says that a zanpakuto auto releases upon using an ability, show me where it is said that an ability cannot be used outside of release. Right now what we have seen is that what appears to be his sealed state used getsuga and I think it should be noted as such. No release command has been said and no change in the sword has been shown other than using its ability. It is my current conclusion that zanpakutos can use abilities without releasing. My evidence is Nadegiri, Urahara's cane pointed directly at where the blast of energy he fired came from and now this getsuga. Until it is proven that zanpakuto abilties cannot be used outside of a release and or we know that Isshin has released, it should merely state under his zanpakuto heading that he has used getsuga.--<font color="black" face="Verdana">God <font color="black" face="Verdana">(Pray)  06:35, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * No and for all we know, Urahara used a Kido. Seriously people, go look up the definition of crack theory. Tinni   (Talk)  06:45, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

I completely agree with that. And Tinni, whether or not Nadegiri is a Zanjutsu technique or Zanpakuto technique, it is still a technique that isn't Kido that was used using a Zanpakuto while in a sealed state (replying to an earlier comment). klross1 06:39, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's the most retarded argument I have ever heard! A zanpakuto technique like getsuga cannot be compared to a swordsmen ship tecnique. Give it up already Tinni   (Talk)  06:45, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

By the way, there is an example of a non-released sword using a special ability. Ichigo fought off a menos before he even learned Zangetsu's name. KnyghtMare


 * He didn't use any special abilities. Since people seem hell bent on annoying me with groundless arguments, I am closing this discussion. I will reopen the discussion if there is a need to open it, when chpater 406 comes out. In the meantime, feel free to go badger the admins if you think I shutting down this discussion unfairly. Tinni   (Talk)  06:45, May 27, 2010 (UTC)

the two i was talking about is Tia Harribel and Patros both has energy attacks and was not in Resurrección, to me that means there might be something to it Faustfan 06:40, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * An Arrancar zanpakuto is very different from a Shinigami's Zanpakuto, therefore it wouldn't count. Tinni   (Talk)  06:45, May 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Patros is filler and thus non-cannon KnyghtMare 06:43, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should we not add the plot information from the latest chapter about Isshin stating to Ichigo that he will teach him the final getsuga tenshou? HellBlade 19:56, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Should we not add the plot information from the latest chapter about Isshin stating to Ichigo that he will teach him the final getsuga tenshou? HellBlade 19:56, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

I think this sort of thing could get confused in the wording; I'd say leave it until the more reputable translators get their versions out, so we have a better idea about what he actually said. <font color="red" face="Verdana">TomServo101 <font color="red" face="Verdana">(Talk)  20:02, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

You are probably right. I just wanted to ask that before I made some changes myself. I have heard some people say "final" and/or "ultimate" getsuga tenshou. HellBlade 20:06, June 10, 2010 (UTC)