Forum:A Time Discrepancy in the Anime

I have noticed a discrepancy in the flow of time between Hueco Mundo and the other realms. In episode 192 when Nnoitora is fighting Nel, Nnoitora says, "Just how many years do you think have passed since you left this place?" That means that it was years ago when Nnoitora was the 8th Espada that Nel was exiled from Las Noches. And all of the current Espada, with the exception of Aaroniero, were created artificially with the Hougyoku. But in the Human World, it was during Summer Break that Aizen took the Hougyoku from Rukia's body and retreated to Hueco Mundo. And because the Hougyoku is supposed to awaken that coming winter, less than six months would have had to have elapsed between the time that Aizen retrieved the Hougyoku and the time that Nnoitora says those words to Nel. So, if only several MONTHS had passed since Aizen acquired the Hougyoku, how could several YEARS have passed since Nnoitora became an Espada?

There are obviously story points that you have not taken into account to understand this situation. First while Nnoitra states that years have passed since Nel was an Espada he never explicitly states how many years, so time is something not certain from the get go. Secondly no one said the current Espada were all created entirely en masse from the hogyoku, thats an assumption but not necessarily a fact. Third Regardless of the fact of when Aizen stole the Hogyoku the determined history shows him recruiting Baraggan well before he was found to be a traitor and recruited Starrk after his defection. This makes various times with whether he used the hogyoku or not the was possible years and months between the formation of the current espada group. Starrk apparently was already an arrancar when he meets Aizen. Not to mention you seem to be totally unaware that Aizen had created his own hogyoku over 100 years ago. This is what allowed him to hollowfy the Visored. He explains his was incomplete and dependended on feeding off of countless souls. He likely used it to create Arrancar he explains he stole Urahara's hogyoku which was all incomplete in order to feed it to his. He doesn't explain further at that point if he did so or not but considering there is only one hogyoku in the story it would stand to reason he did so create a complete hogyoku, which is what he used to make something as specific in purpose as wonderweiss. In closing there was two hogyoku one created by Aizen and one by Urahara as far back as 100 years ago. one was in aizen's possession all those years well before he took urahara's hidden in rukia's body.--Salubri (Talk) 03:01, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

I think a possible reason is that time in Hueco Mundo flows faster than the world of the living and Soul Society. The differences in flows of time has been used in Bleach before. We know that arrancars don't age and shinigami do not age the same rate as a normal human being would. Hueco Mundo in the Bleach world is the 2nd worst possible place for souls to go other than Hell, so the fact that time continues to accelerate, yet you do not age is very cruel and tortuous for an arrancar and other hollow-like beings. I like your theory that the first Hogyoku created by Aizen could have created some of the original Espada, it is a very plausible idea. There simply isn't enough time in the world for Kubo to explain every last concept. I think my theory might possibly fill in that gap, but it is a theory, and not fact and should be treated as such. --Lemursrule (talk) 03:28, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

I too was under the impression that time moved faster in Hueco Mundo. The Arrancar gave the impression that they had been together for years. Though it is also very likely that they had actually been together for years in real time due to the use of Aizen's Hogyoku.--God (Pray)  04:11, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

I had the same theory that time moved faster in Hueco Mundo than it did in the world of the living. It makes sense because Hueco Mundo is disconnected from the World of the Living and the Soul Society in much the same way that the Dangai is separated from them. I'm glad that others had the same theory without any influence from me. It's a sign to me that the theory holds wieght.

Mine is not a theory thats basic fact given that Aizen has had his own hogyoku for over 100 years and a hogyoku is capable of such a thing thats all there is to it. Self explanatory therefore doesn't require further explanation when the information given addresses the point regardless of how indirect it was brought forth. Also I never said he created the original Espada just that the formation of the Espada's current form can only be determined according to Aizen. As we have only vague reference of his involvement with the previous Espada, we have yet to determine how in depth that involvement was. Also Arrancar are a subspecies and a minority compared to the hollows that reside in hueco mundo. Souls aren't sent to hueco mundo its just the home of the hollows, which are past being innocent and victims of suffering. Even if we assume time runs differently in hueco mundo it is variable to the time in soul society and time in both places have not shown to run any different then it does in the human world. Time is only different in the dangai precipice world. Any form of time dilation shown in the characters are a result of their species physiology. the descrepency in time is determined by the fact is that we know Aizen was going to hueco mundo while still a captain but we dont know for how long he was initiating these trips and involved with the arrancar. This could have easily spanned anywhere within the past 100 years. At the time of Grimmjow's punishment he was still looking for vasto lorde to complete the espada, meaning some of the additions were fairly recent and we dont know how long he was looking or if his search was ever completed.--Salubri (Talk)  04:22, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

I'm with Salubri on this. There is nothing to suggest that there is a faster flow of time in Hueco Mundo. Nothing at all. On the contrary we have known for a long time that Aizen was going to Hueco Mundo before he finally revealed himself as a traitor. Gin became a captain c.50 years ago and when they recruited Baraggan, the trio were all in their Soul Society arc outfits, but Tosen did have his captain's haori, which he left behind in Soul Society when they defected. So that happened sometime less than 50 ago, but before Aizen got the Hogyoku. Also, Aaroniero was the last of the first generation of the Espada. Baraggan was not credited as such. So the implication is that the Espada must have existed in some form before Baraggan was recruited. Dordoni was in Aizen's service since before Aizen got Urahara's Hogyoku - he mentioned that prior to his death and said that he became obsolete when the Hogyoku was obtained. Starrk and Grand Fisher both became Arrancar without the aid of the Hogyoku so there is strong evidence that Arrancar (& Espada) can have existed before Aizen got the Hogyoku without bringing accelerated flow of time into it. If memory serves correctly, Tinni has often used the conecpt of Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is the most likely. Why go for a theory on the time flow being different when that has nothing to back it up and there is a simple explanation in the story (albeit scattered around the place). 13:26, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

What Yyp and Salubri said. It has been made very, very clear that Aizen started his Heuco Mundo activities long, LONG before he formally declared himself an enemy of Soul Society. The fact that he already had a base of operation in Heuco Mundo should be self evident from his use of Fura for his escape. How exactly did he call Gilians and Fura and get them to negation him away from Soul Society if that was the first time he want to Heuco Mundo? Plus, it has been made very clear that the only place that time flows differently is the Dangai. Soul Society, Heuco Mundo and the living world are in-sync. Time does NOT flow different in either of these three places. So really, enough with the crack time flow theory. Tinni  (Talk)  13:41, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but I want to get this out there while I still have time. Aaroierro was the last of the original Espada, I believe. Aizen probably could've found Arrancar before he came upon people like Barragan and Nnoitra, and formed the Espada from them. From there he crowded out the weaker ones with the stronger ones he found later, some custom-made from the Hogyoku.

Also, this might be speculation, there's no real indication that Aizen formed the Espada. They could've been a preexisting group that Aizen chanced upon, and they joined his cause. That Arrancar with Lai style-sword fighting, forget his name, said "even the Espada have fallen this low" or something like that. Just saying; it's probably speculative. Aeron Solo wuz here (talk) 18:22, January 20, 2011 (UTC)

Yyp and Tinni, I know that Aizen has been dealing with Hueco Mundo for a long time. There's no doubt about that. It's also very clear to me that Espada can be created without the Hougyoku. Otherwise, characters like Aaroniero, Dornoni, Cirucci, and Gantenbainne would not ever have been Espada.

In fact, Yyp, what you said about Dordoni, that is precisely what I am basing this speculation upon (yes, the time-dilation theory is mere speculation). The reason that Dornoni, Cirucci, and Gantenbainne were demoted form the Espada is because the artificial Arrancars made with the Hougyoku were more powerful than the natural Arrancars like them. In my initial post, I never said that the Hougyoku was needed to create Arrancars. All I said is that the Hougyoku is needed to create the artificial Arrancars.

Now think about what it would mean if Nnoitora's dealings with Nel happened before Aizen retrieved the Hougyoku. That would mean that characters like Nnoitora and Szayelaporro would be natural Arrancars. Now if what Dornoni said was true, that natural Arrancars became obsolete after the Hougyoku was retrieved, then would Nnoitora not have been demoted as well? And would Szayelaporro not have been reinstated as an Espada? I think the only reason that a natural Arrancar like Aaroniero is still an Espada is because of his ability to evolve infinitely by taking on the powers and abilities of those e devours. Nathan Warford (talk) 22:53, January 20, 2011 (UTC)Nathan Warford

Alright this has gone on long enough. The time flow difference is theory and I will admit it does not have any actual basis. This issue has been resolved and keeping it open will only lead to more speculation and other ill advised things. Because of this I am closing it.--God (Pray)  23:10, January 20, 2011 (UTC)