Talk:Ichigo Kurosaki

Bankai's Enhanced Strength?
Shouldn't Ichigo's "Enhanced Strength" on his Bankai Special Abilities be listed under his general Enhanced Strength? I mean has there really been any mention of his Bankai increasing his strength? We know he gains an incredible speed increase and even Byakuya and Grimmjow had noted that that was the only change. Sure he blocked Yammy's punch, but we don't know if Ichigo could have done that without Bankai. His Enhanced Strength shown during the Hueco Mundo battles were due to his Hollow Mask. His Enhanced Strength shown in his battle with Ginjou was due to his Fullbring enhancements(as noted by Ginjou). The only thing left is his strength after coming out of the Dangai. But that could have easily been the results of his Dangai training. We never knew if his strength was any different in Shikai at the time. So in the end, couldn't we agree that Tensa Zangetsu DOES NOT give Ichigo a strength increase? Khaotic Twist (talk) 05:34, March 24, 2016 (UTC)Khaotic Twist (talk) 05:31, March 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * Why would you bring up something that isnt even relevant to his current powers. Your whole point is to dispute something under former powers. Also your points are unverified, you move under the assumption that Ichigo has such natural enhanced strength in the way that Sado does which isnt true. There is no proof ichigo possesses the capability to do any of the stuff listed outside of the categorizes they are listed under as he has never been shown to do so while out of Them. Thus there is a example for each under all categories fullbring, hollowfication, bankai. You point out we dont know if he couldnt have done this or that without bankai, the burden is for you to prove that he can, seeing as your making that charge. Your also making points covered in each category. It doesnt translate that "we never knew if his strength was any different in shikai at the time". That doesnt make your point, it makes the point that you cant rightly argue against said enhancement.--


 * So i'm not allowed to talk about former powers? That's...odd. Anyways, the thing is that Ichigo has hardly used his Bankai without also using his Hollow Mask or Fullbring enhancements. And during the times where he's not, he hasn't shown any enhanced strength. The examples given on his page were just post-Fullbring feats, post-Dangai feats, and that one time he blocked Yammy's punch and cut his arm off. Which isn't impossible for him since Base Form Yammy is the weakest of the Esapdas and Ichigo had knocked out 3 Lieutenants with 1 punch each(including Sasakibe and shattering Gegetsuburi) pre-Bankai. What I want to know is how did you came to the conclusion that his Bankai gave him enhanced strength? Unless I'm the only one that doesn't see it.Khaotic Twist (talk) 06:24, March 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * All available evidence indicates that Ichigo receives enhancements to all his powers and abilities when he enters bankai; the onus is on you to prove otherwise. Citing what Grimmjow said isn't evidence of anything. Ichigo being able to knock-out three lieutenants is a lot different from cutting right through the hierro of an espada, regardless of how 'weak' they are. Yoruichi, despite being able to easily take down Yammy, still got injured due to his thick hierro. 06:54, March 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * But what evidence are saying that's available? That's what i want to know. Otherwise everything would be assumptions and should be indicated as such. Of course Yoruichi is going to hurt her hands, because she as beating up Yammy with her bare hands. If she was using a weapon, her hands wouldn't be injured. And despite that, Yammy was all bruised and bloodied from all the abuse. Khaotic Twist (talk) 07:31, March 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * The references that are already there. Why is this such a big deal? It's in the former powers and abilities section anyway, so what's the point of changing it even if it were wrong (which it isn't). Also Yoruichi fights bare-handed all the time, so by your logic she should get injured each time she fights. 08:02, March 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * If you didn't think it was such a "big deal", then we wouldn't be going back and forth like this. So what if it's a former power/ability? It's still in his page, therefore it's still matters. And saying that it isn't such a "big deal" to discuss is a petty way of proving your point. Yoruichi was still fighting someone with Hierro, so in this case her hands would hurt from the resistance. Strength and durability is not the same. It's like being able to break a wooden board but you still might hurt your hand afterwards. Anyways, all I wanted was for you to hear me out on my suggestion. If you still disagree, then does nothing more I can say(even though I still don't think i'm wrong). Khaotic Twist (talk) 09:18, March 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * I think the point made by Kman111 and myself says it all. Your saying that we are using assumptions and therefore that should be indicated. Firstly assumptions arent used here. The fact is every instance shown is shown when ichigo is either in bankai, fullbring, hollowfication. Meaning we can only list what we see him do when he is in the state he is. He has not shown the capability outside of that state we cant say he has the capability out of that state. Secondly it would be an assumption to think he is capable of such a thing outside of the other states mentioned when you dont know if that is possible. Which seems to be your position. Thus I said prove that he can use it outside of bankai. Now you say the examples arent proof of his enhanced strength because he knocked back 3 lieutenants in the SS arc. So that basically proves that he is more powerful then those 3 low powered lieutenants which we already know considering he can hold his own with captains at that point. Also for your argument to work you would have to discredit the fact that Yammy (post release or not) is still in possession of high levels of strength. Now if what you say is true then why not do any of those feats of strength while in shikai...unless he doesnt have that level of strength in shikai which explains all the reasons he isn't in shikai prior to serious battle in series. True enough most characters dont have their bankai work for them in that capacity but then again not everyone is in a constant state of bankai either like ichigo who needs the enhancement that he gets from it.--


 * Ichigo stopped Yammy's hand with just his Shikai's blade before using Bankai. There's that. Khaotic Twist (talk) 15:59, March 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * I remember Grimmjow remarking that all Ichigo's bankai did was increase his speed during their first battle, but that probably shouldn't be read into too much. Arawn 999 (talk) 06:05, March 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * Grimmjaw commenting on something he couldnt really know about seeing its not his bankai or something arrancar understand but more importantly. Its not unheard of that a bankai enhances ones typical capabilities. Yes Hyper-Speed is its capability. It also provides stronger getsuga tensho's amongst general enhancements ichigo doesnt have outside of bankai.--