Talk:Sōsuke Aizen

Shikai Ability
"however, unlike the Complete Hypnosis granted by his Shikai, he no longer has control over what others perceive." Where is this stated in the manga? From what I gathered, it sounds like Aizen was sarcastically mocking Yhwach. So isn't this piece of information pure speculation; until directly stated otherwise? Besides, how does it even work if he can't control what others perceive? It doesn't really make sense.

Feminist SJW (talk)
 * I don't agree that it doesnt make sense re: how it now works. It is a step down from how it used to be sure, but I don't see how it doesn't make sense that it causes other people to see illusions and Aizen not being aware of the details of it. It is plausible. As for your main point, it is derived from pages 13-14 of chapter 683 where Aizen says "Interesting. So you see me as Kurosaki Ichigo, do you?" which indicates that he did not know what Yhwach was seeing until Yhwach said it. 14:54, August 1, 2017 (UTC)

Well that goes back to my point: the dialouge from Aizen is all about how the audience interprets it. You see it as Aizen not knowing what illusions Ywach was seeing and I see it as Aizen sarcastically mocking Yhwach; because let's be honest here, that piece of dialouge can seem plausible with both our interpretations and we have no way of finding out which one is correct until it is directly stated otheriwse. So until it is directly stated in black and white, the information that is on the page is speculation from what you think it might mean and thus should be removed until more solid evidence presents itself, if at all, in the future. Feminist SJW (talk)


 * To see it as mocking is an assumption on your part. He commented on what Yhwach saw only after Aizen was informed of what he saw not before and he commented that it was interesting to learn this. There is no reason not to add this just in case he might have been mocking him and thus being deliberately obtuse. In that way we should remove everything we have that came from explanations from characters just in case they were lying or mocking people. That logic would never work.

To see it as proof that he cannot control his illusions is also an assumption on your part. You see how that works? When he said it was irrelevant. Of course he's going to mock Yhwach when he is at his most vulnerable: after he impaled Aizen and having his back open for Ichigo to attack. The "interesting" he said was to add to his sarcasm. There is every reason not to add this; not because "just in case he might have been mocking him" but because Aizen never directly stated anything. It is your interpretation of Aizen's dialogue and not solid facts. The statement is very vague and it's meaning is assumed by you guys. Furthermore, Aizen even explained the entire battle to Ichigo during the next chapter on how he used his hypnosis on Yhwach. If Aizen's hypnosis really was weakened, do you really think that Kubo would leave out such an important and intriguing piece of information for the fans?

"In that way we should remove everything we have that came from explanations from characters just in case they were lying or mocking people. That logic would never work"-you said it yourself; the keyword is explanation. What Aizen said here was not an "explanation". It was dialogue that can have more than one plausible interpretation like ours. Please inform me of what other information this wikia has included which is similar to this one.

On a related note, I could argue that the "Energy Beam" Kugo Ginjo fired in his Bankai state was a cero. It had the exact same look and charge to it and the anime also used the exact same noise for the blast. Not to mention that Kigo even said he has a bit of hollow inside him. But nope, even with all the visual evidence it is still speculation until directly stated.

Another more solid example would be the "Cero Oscuras". Ulquiorra directly stated that the Cero Oscuras was something that the Espadas can fire in their release states. So why have you not put the Espadas down as the users on the Cero Oscuras page but instead just put Ulquiorra? Is it because Ulquiorra is the only one that has been shown using it? I mean, he even said that the Espadas can use it in their release forms right? But when it comes to the Gran Rey Cero, you put the users down as the Espadas. Why is that? Don't tell me that it's because you saw Szayel use it in the movie... I thought movies weren't canon? So in the entire manga series, the only Espada who used the Gran Rey Cero was Grimmjow but I don't see any mention of that on the page..?

Main point is: the "facts" on Aizen's page is literally your speculation. This is a very simple case of your interpretation vs my interpretation of a very vague dialogue where nothing is directly stated. This dialogue is too vague to put down as solid facts without any other concrete evidence but you refuse to accept this and keep on arguing that your interpretation is the correct one here. I just don't think it's a wise idea to put your speculation on the page, brand it as a fact and mislead fans without any real evidence. I thought that this wikia was against publishing speculation or do admins have a free pass? Feminist SJW (talk)


 * It is a fact that Aizen asked that, it happened. He made Yhwach hallucinate and questioned him on the hallucination. Due to the limited nature of text versus speech in manga, they usually show that it was done in a sarcastic way. The same with Cero, in the Manga when it was used it was made clear that it was a Cero. And it is not presented as fact it is presented as "here is the citation of where this information comes from" as if it was presented as fact it couldn't be changed as facts are indisputable and cannot be changed. It is a conclusion based on strong evidence to back it up. If it is ret-conned to a mocking tone it can be altered as such. And yes we have had things on the Wiki that were based on what was stated at the time. we listed Rangiku as deceased at one point because Gin stated that he killed her. With no other information, we stated as such. When it was revealed he was lying and he merely knocked her out we altered it based on that information. When another character said Byakuya was dead we said that he was dead as we had no other evidence. When he was revealed to be alive we fixed it again. It had nothing to do with the "I think.." users, we have what is and what isn't. If you have issues with other articles, open a discussion there, this one is futile, I have had permission from the Crat to close it and I will do. Although I have been told to reword it and I will.

Locking page
Can this page be locked for an unspecified time? A certain vandal using sockpuppet accounts keeps making the same disruptive edit over and over again. Timjer (talk) 12:26, February 26, 2020 (UTC)


 * Gladly.--Xilinoc (talk) 21:06, February 26, 2020 (UTC)


 * Why just not block the annoying people that do stupid things? Also I need to ask when will Shinji's page be unlock? Just asking when Brave Souls reveal his Bankai in anime picture style. Darkmachines (talk)


 * The vandal was blocked. Didn't stop him from making another sockpuppet account just to keep vandalizing. Timjer (talk) 07:08, February 27, 2020 (UTC)

Aizen should have a post-timeskip pic
Like everyone else. Lightning Laxus (talk) 05:13, March 1, 2020 (UTC)


 * Once we figure out a switch template with three options instead of two, we'll get right on that.--Xilinoc (talk) 05:17, March 1, 2020 (UTC)


 * If that's the case and it's limited to just 2, I prefer to remove the glasses pic in favor of his current appearance. Because an up-to-date photo > a disguise, imo. Lightning Laxus (talk) 05:42, March 1, 2020 (UTC)


 * Glad to hear that you have an opinion, but the wiki does not revolve around it. So it stays as is for now.--Xilinoc (talk) 05:43, March 1, 2020 (UTC)


 * Okay, let's discuss this. Why is the glasses pic preferred over a post-timeskip pic? Lightning Laxus (talk) 05:48, March 1, 2020 (UTC)


 * Because Aizen spends a significant amount of time with that look - in fact, panel-for-panel, he spends more time looking like that than he does in his bondage getup. Similar to Acidwire and The Demi-Hollow, among others, it also acts as a marker for when he was a "different" character with a different personality reflected by his look - Muken Aizen is the same ol' post-Soul Society Aizen everyone knows and loves with a minorly different powerset. So, with access to only a two-option switch template that restricts choices, Glasses Aizen wins out over Punished Aizen.--Xilinoc (talk) 05:54, March 1, 2020 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. On another note, what about Sajin Komamura? His old mask marks when he was "different." Lightning Laxus (talk) 06:06, March 1, 2020 (UTC)


 * You just ignored the time element of Xilinic's response. Komamura spends very little screen time and panel time with the Helmet on. Its technically on the whole arc but he barely appears for the whole arc, and doesn't become relevant until he fights Zaraki where the Helmet comes off. There was multiple reasons given in Xil's response, try to be consistent and do nit cherry pick.

Databook info
From his entry in the Bleach: Official Character Book 3 UNMASKED explains further insight into Aizen's personality and motives.

--Motive-- 藍染を動かすもの WHAT MADE AIZEN MOVE

FACT 1: 神の高みへ FACT 1: The Heights of God 藍染は霊王になり代わり、新しい世界を創造する. その崇高な目的を果たす　"使者"　として 、　自分は神 の域にある存在という意識が芽生えた. Aizen wanted to become the Spirit King and create a brand new world. He wanted to become a divine "messenger" and make those under His domain become aware of His presence.

FACT 2: 孤独 FACT 2: Loneliness 誰よりも強かった藍染は、　誰にも理解されこと無い孤独の世界を抱えていた. 強き者故の孤独 は深く、　哀 しい. Aizen was stronger than anybody else, and because of this, he was lonely and misunderstood by everyone. The loneliness that came with this strong isolation was very deep, and very sad.

AnonymousAnomani (talk) 18:41, March 4, 2020 (UTC)

Kubo Quote
Hey, so normally I keep translation discussions to the discord server channel/project page (when it's active every 3 years), but the subject of this one is "substantial" enough that I've decided it should be made more public and put on this talk page for posterity. After a request from the user Stand Bloom to re-examine the translation, apparently the Official Bootleg quote we have from Kubo regarding Aizen's character, the famous and iconic "The gaze into the sun.", isn't actually an accurate translation of the text. The characters in question, (source here), more accurately translate to "A gaze of a sunny spot"; to further solidify this disparity, the Viz translation of that quote is "That luminous gaze", again not containing a mention of staring AT the sun. Per Aestivius, this quote is meant to adjectively liken Aizen's gaze to the overwhelming brightness of the sun, rather than to indicate he's staring into such brightness himself - very much a different meaning. So if anyone else with translation skills/experience would like to weigh in here before I make the change (as Aestivius, alongside Sccq98, is our functioning translator atm), now's the time.--Xilinoc (talk) 21:42, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Aizen vs the Espada
When Aizen said he was stronger than all the Espada, that was already established as he was their leader. I believe he was saying that he was strong enough to defeat all 10 Espada at once.Steveo920 (talk) 14:23, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Aizen's Zanpakutō post-Muken
I wanted to bring up this discussion again (because it has been several years and I believe I wrote at least part of the statement where it says it's gotten weaker and he has less control over it) and as I read the manga again, I noticed that Aizen doesn't really sheath his Zanpakutō at all and it's not on his person initially; he just randomly brandishes it in chapter 683. I then thought back to how he previously fused with it during the Fake Karakura arc and was wondering whether that disintegration was just the completion of that fusion. Despite the fact that it should've been completely removed from his arsenal, he is perfectly capable of using it just as a normal weapon and Yhwach even explicitly breaks it later and prevents him from reactivating Complete Hypnosis. I think this should be mentioned as he definitely doesn't carry it around in the conventional way (unless you want me to believe Mayuri actually hid his Zanpakutō in that chair or Aizen was sitting on it very uncomfortably).

There's also the implication that Kyōka Suigetsu doesn't seem to be as powerful as it used to be because it was previously disintegrated by the Hōgyoku, which I deem inaccurate now. I don't think he ever really had such control over it in the first place. At the time he used it against the Gōtei 13 in the Fake Karakura Town, it seemed that everyone was affected by it except Gin; but he was really far from the action and since he already knew its weaknesses, it's reasonable to think he would at least be able to tell when it was active (and his only other ally apart from the Espada, Tōsen, was not only already dead, but was also blind so he couldn't see its release anyway). I think Kyōka Suigetsu would work on everyone that's seen its release, and he can't control the illusions to such a degree that only allies are unaffected. Like from the earlier discussion, his statement of what the illusion Yhwach saw was seems to come from a witty remark rather than genuine curiosity, since by that point he had already figured out Complete Hypnosis works on Yhwach. But why did it only work until Yhwach revived himself? Well, if he truly died and then revived himself because BS abilities, wouldn't he have to see Kyōka Suigetsu's release again? It's not like Aizen deactivated it or anything, and it's never been used on someone that could revive themselves that easily. Gold3263301 (talk) 15:03, 5 May 2021 (UTC)