Talk:Kūgo Ginjō

Fullbring Absorption
Should that be listed as an ability of his Fullbring, since it seems that he absorbed Ichigo's Fullbring in the latest chapt.--シルバー人柱力 - The Silver Jinchūriki. ("Talk to me.") 07:45, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

It is not confirmed what exactly has been done yet!! SunXia  (Chat)  12:16, August 5, 2011 (UTC)

No need to yell, I was just making a suggestion...--シルバー人柱力 - The Silver Jinchūriki. ("Talk to me.") 01:49, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

She isn't yelling, she ends all her sentences with !! whether she is happy, sad, annoyed, angry, whatever.--

Um...guys? Is it just me, or is that bone armor that Kugo was wearing after Toshiro said he was the first Substitute Shinigami strangely similar to Ichigo's Fullbring (which he stole)? I just couldn't help noticing. A Shining Star appeared!! (Make a Wish)  02:28, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it looks similar, but not the same. It's still too early to tell if he can absorb Fullbrings or not. Arrancar109 (Talk)  04:46, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Might I suggest we add his Fullbring's second form's apparent ability to absorb other Fullbringer's Fullbring? I think that is a pretty noteworthy ability. I would do so myself (and was about to), but the page is locked. Ten Tailed Fox   (Talk with me) 20:36, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

My only problem with this is it has not been said exactly how he did that. Whether it is an ability of his Fullbring or if it is something all Fullbringers can do. Id wait for 460 before doing anything.--


 * Alright, fine with me. Ten Tailed Fox   (Talk with me) 21:20, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

I already commented on the same topic up there!! ^ SunXia   (Chat)  23:36, August 14, 2011 (UTC)

It looks like he can absorb and use others' Fullbrings. It also looks like he can do this because he was once a Substitute Shinigmai and is most likely not a common ability for Fullbringers, which should be added into his history along with the true sequence of events concerning the deaths of the other Xcution members.DukeLions (talk) 16:35, August 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Was it confirmed by Kubo Tite or any character in the manga that Ginjo has the ability due to having been once a substitute shinigami? Did Kubo Tite or any character in the manga said that Ginjo can use fullbrings he took away? „Most likely” is not a confirmation; it's a speculation. On this wiki, we don’t like speculations. TheyCallMeIgi (talk) 11:04, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nope, wasn't confirmed. That's why the talk pages exist, to thrash around content to see if it can stand close scrutiny of multiple people. This obviously won't come out of our wringers too well, so it stays off until confirmed. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  17:59, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Does no one remember that when Ichigo first showed his completed Fullbring, Ginjou said that he thought of him as someone else? I think that his new armor isn't Ichigo's but part of his original Fullbring WIZZADYAH (talk) 08:10, August 28, 2011 (UTC)
 * That is still a speculation. And their fullbrings might be so similar, because both Ichigo and Ginjou are substitute shinigami. TheyCallMeIgi (talk) 08:14, August 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * It looks like that Ginjo was able to steal Ichigo's fullbring because it is the same object that Ginjo possesses, namely a Shingami Representative badge. So by merging his own badge with his fullbring, Ginjo is able to steal the Fullbring powers off of Ichigo's badge along with his reiatsu fused with it.

superlogan7437 (talk) 20:24, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

It's unlikely. The soul of the badge would also have to be the same. And because Ichigo left HIS imprint on HIS badge, not Kugo's, they would obviously be very different. Also, suggesting that at all is extremely speculatory. Please shy away from that sort of thing unless it has sufficient evidence to back it up. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  21:31, October 13, 2011 (UTC)

The new form
I think the description of his sword's second form should be redone. As it is no longer considered that he puts on the badge of a slain Substitute Soul Reaper. Now that it has been revealed to actually be his old badge. Evil 1 (talk) 04:15, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well,now it's obvious that he really GAVE Ichigo his fullbring or whatever that'd be.

Shouldn't it be counted as one of his fullbrings now? Adi212 (talk) 10:31, August 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * He didn't give Ichigo anything. Not in the way you're thinking at least. When he said "the Fullbring I gave him", he meant that he helped Ichigo obtain his own Fullbring. In essence "giving" him one. That Fullbring was Ichigo's. Not Ginjō's. Ten Tailed Fox   (Talk with me) 17:47, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

P&A
What would you say for adding this?

Keen Intellect: Kūgo has proven to have a high level of intelligence. Despite having his memories altered he was able to deduce that Uryū and Orihime were not attacked by the same person thanks to his vast knowlegde about Fullbrings (In truth, Kūgo attacked one of them himself). He also figured out the true nature of Tsukishima's abilities by analyzing the events happening around him. Ramus7 (talk) 20:49, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Here is the issue with this. Tsukishima's ability falsifies memories by adding himself into them. So what was altered was the fact they there were actually allies. Deducing the attacker of uryu and Orihime isn't hard they are only fighting against one individual, considering the attack against Orihime wasn't meant to injure her, it was are assumption that it was him that attacked Uryu. He also already knew the nature of Tsukishima's abilities even if he had his memories altered to not recall the ability, this was also the most logical explanation considering the events. Whether this makes him particularly intelligent considering that he is originally involved in all the situations cant be determined, subconciously in the information was still there they didnt get erased.--Salubri (Talk)  21:42, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Kūgo's History
I believe that the part of this section about Tsukishima slaughtering the old Substitute Shinigami and Kūgo taking the old shinigami's badges needs to be removed. We know now that Kūgo himself was the substitute shinigami, so this section saying he was the first substitute, then saying that Tsukishima killed the substitute and Kūgo took the badge obviously isn't correct anymore. At least this part needs to be changed, even though it does seem as if more is going to be correctly revealed during the next few chapters. Kevinsk (talk) 08:33, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Kevinsk

It should be changed in the way that it reflects the real history as well as explaining the idea of the lie (while under the false history ability). --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  21:42, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking, like, state what actually happened and maybe mention that is the story he had told Ichigo at first. Having both different stories in there is just awkward and a little confusing. Kevinsk (talk) 22:00, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Kevinsk

The problem is that when doing history sections they have to be told in past tense. So the actual history can be given in the history section and the false one can be mentioned under the regular plot line. --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  22:14, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I think all you need to do is make some sublte remark that hints that what he told Ichigo may not be true. For example you could say Kuugo claims to have joined the Xcution with other Fullbringers to get rid of his powers. It leaves room for it to be false, while keeping the information in there. --GL089 (talk) 23:45, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Substitute Badge
"Kūgo places the Substitute Shinigami Badge of the slain substitute Shinigami onto his sword.." --- It's pretty much been established that this badge is his, as he is the first Substitute Shinigami. I'll make the necessary revisions, and perhaps give him an equipment section to show his badge. <font color="#008080" face="Verdana">Ten Tailed Fox  <font color="#FF0000" face="Verdana"> (Talk with me) 19:20, September 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, page is locked. Can someone do it for me then? <font color="#008080" face="Verdana">Ten Tailed Fox  <font color="#FF0000" face="Verdana"> (Talk with me) 19:22, September 3, 2011 (UTC)

Ginjo's page has been locked everytime I checked it sinse he started using his fancy new powers. Really wish someone would do something about that. Bloodtom1 (talk) 00:28, September 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Again, be patient, this is a critical article at this time, it is locked for a reason!! SunXia   (Chat)  00:34, September 8, 2011 (UTC)

Trivia
While in the color page of chapter 449 Ginjo had blue eyes, in the color page of chapter 465 he appears to have brown eyes. Can that be counted as a trivia detail? I just noticed that... Adi212 (talk) 18:16, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Fullbring third form,P&A section
i think we should addd that the skull armor he got from taking ichigos fullbring made it so he survived ichigos getsuga tensho, i mean even himself admitted it in chapter 462 that if he hadnt taken ichigos fullbring the getsuga wouldve killed him or if not under the fullbring put it in like durability or spiritual power- FLAMESWORD300

Enhanced Energy Blast?
Has Kugo used an energy blast or a getsuga in these panels? --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk  22:40, October 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * He used his energy blast in those, yes.--

Fullbring Absorption
I saw that Fullbring Absorption was marked as part of his Fullbring, im just shocked. Am I the only one who thought it was not connected to his fullbring? But the fact that he was a Fullbringer. It looks EXACTLY like the way a Shinigami can transfer powers or Rukia transfered her powers. Imo, if that is part of Ginjo's powers, then Rukia would be similar(And we all know for a fact, that she isnt)


 * There is no evidence to support it being a power of all Fullbringers and not just Kugo. Remember, when Rukia gave her power to Ichigo, she stabbed him, thus transferring her powers to him. When Kugo stabbed Ichigo, Ichigo's powers were transferred to Kugo, thus making it the exact opposite of what happened with Rukia. Kugo is the only Fullbringer shown taking the power of another Fullbringer and thus it will stay as his own power until there is proof otherwise.--

First sign your posts. Secondly its speculative to assume that his capability to absorb anothers fullbring which he does through use of his own fullbring isnt apart of it, theres nothing to prove that it isn't. Also what proof is there that a fullbringer can just take anothers power. There seems to be a lack of understanding on what a fullbringer can do. They have one power commonly based on a special object, that power may have certain techniques or capabilities linked to it. They dont have multiple abilities outside of that. Other then that they can simply manipulate the spirits of inanimate objects to aid them. Also since when can a shinigami take anothers powers. Rukia willingly transferred her powers to someone who doesn't have power (quite rare and a deadly to attempt on a human), this was showcased again when ichigo had his powers jump started via a special sword. Ginjo took power, thats different entirely. Your also incorrect about Rukia what she did is capable for any shinigami, its against the law to do because its not guaranteed to work and can lead to death for the human and a shinigami is not supposed to give their powers to humans. Rukia and other shinigami cant just absorb anothers powers unless thats an ability of their zanpakuto. --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  03:32, November 6, 2011 (UTC)

Fullbring or Zanpakuto??
Seeing as Kugo went Bankai in this latest chapter, we need to make a call. We need to make a Zanpakutō section for him. What exactly do we include in it? Can we say that the form he has been in up until now has been shikai or do we just want to put his bankai? Is his sword he has been carrying his Zanpakuto? We need to make some calls here--

I say this should be waited on, especially considering the fact that ability replication is something he can do, Bankai might be apart of that, if it's going to be added it should be there, because he's only been using Fullbring techniques up to this point, so we shouldn't be too hasty.Lavaros (talk) 16:53, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

I think that when he merges his Fullbring with his Combat Pass, that's his Shikai, but this is speculation. It's probably the best if we just add Bankai, because we don't know if his normal form is Shikai. Although that it could be like Lavaros said, it still one of his abilities. He 'stole' Getsuga Tensho, but we also put it on his page so...Empty moon (talk) 16:58, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

It was pretty obvious cross of scaffold is not a zanpakuto. It shares no such characteristics, its been his full bring throughout the arc, there really no explanation for him having a zanpakuto. I would agree this seems to go with his ability replication powers. This is exactly why I don't like where they took this fullbring thing as the lines between what's what with kugo are so messed up.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  17:12, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't go on about the Cross of Scaffold a Zanpakutō as of yet though, infomation is a little scarce right now so I'd say keep his page the way is is until we know more of his abilities. --Cathal O&#39;Hara (talk) 17:29, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

I'm also confused with Fullbringer's powers. I thought Fullbring couldn't evolve their powers further than a completed manifestation. So if Kugo stole Ichigo's fullbring powers, there really shouldn't be a way for him to go Bankai since that's a part of his shinigami powers, which Ichigo didn't have. I don't know. This may not be the place for this discussion. The whole power sharing/stealing blurs the line of what powers are really being used. Northstar1012 (talk) 17:31, November 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * No that is a very good point. Rukia said that Kugo couldn't take Ichgio's Shinigami powers. This is not a case of Kugo replicating the Bankai of Ichigo, it is him using his own Bankai. The only reason Kugo could use Getsuga Tensho is because Ichigo could use it with his Fullbring. Bankai is a Shinigami ability and Rukia made it clear that Kugo didn't steal those. <font color="#008080" face="Verdana">Ten Tailed Fox  <font color="#FF0000" face="Verdana"> (Talk with me) 18:19, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

There is actually a very simple explanation as to why he can use Shingami powers now. We were told way earlier in this arc that Fullbringers giving powers to Substitute Shinigami who have lost their powers will help them regain their powers. Kugo simply stole Ichigo's Fullbring power, and that helped him regain his Shinigami powers in accordance to the earlier statement.--B14 (talk) 18:21, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

We might be jumping the gun here, and while I agree that it probably should go under Kugo's Fullbring section, like last week with Ichigo, Kugo only just called out Bankai. We may or may not get an explanation next week, but it's obvious right now that it's too early to call anything out, since Kugo only just called out his Bankai. We can mention that he activates his Bankai in the "Plot" section, but at least until next week, we should probably hold off on listing Bankai on his "Powers & Abilities" section for now. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  18:32, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Agree with Arrancar109 here, it's too jumbled up for us to make a call this early!! We saw no evidence of a Shikai then bam with all this Bankai malarky!! I think wait for elaboration!! SunXia  (Chat)  22:44, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

I'm happy to wait. We don't really have all that much info anyway, just a picture of what part of it looks like. So there's not much that could really be written anyway. The picture in the plot section works for now. We will have to make a call at some stage though and there is no guarantee that we will get an explanation that makes things clear enough for our purposes, so we need to be prepared for that in the short-medium term. 22:49, November 30, 2011 (UTC)

Quotes
Hey guys I just noticed that there is no quotes for Ginjo. Hasn't he said some stuff already that's important. I mean he is an important character as of late. We should be adding in some of the things he said by now. Falling Rock (talk) 17:00, December 1, 2011 (UTC)Flying Lion


 * I'm busy with some other stuff right now, so cant really go hunting for quotes, but I added the one that was nominated for Featured quote of the month recently. The point of a quotes section is for relevant quotes that showcase the character's personality or personal feelings. If you find any good quotes that live up to that, then they can be added, so long as the source is cited in a reference. 18:38, December 2, 2011 (UTC)

Kugo's a vizard
At Chapter 476


 * No, he is not. A visored is a Shinigami with an inner Hollow whom they can draw power from, resulting in a Hollow mask. There is no evidence that Kugo has an actual inner Hollow or that he has a mask. All he said was that he had some Hollow in him. This does not equate to being a visored.--


 * God's right!! All he reminded Ichigo was of how his mother was attacked before he was born and that he has Fullbrig powers, like Sado, as well as Shinigami powers!! He is not a Visored!! SunXia   (Chat)  18:32, December 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Kugo's eyes changed to the same coloration as a vizard's though. Ragnaworks (talk) 10:16, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

So we are to assume anything with the same eye color is automatically a Visored?? Don't deal with Speculation here!! 10:52, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention that they actually don't. In the color page that shows his Bankai, his eyes have red scleras and white pupils. Visoreds' eyes become black/yellow when they hollow-fy. He never manifested a mask the way Shinji and his comrades do either, so there is no way to group him in the same category, we can't speculate over abilities we didn't see. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  11:16, January 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * In that case, closing this discussion, please do not edit it again!! SunXia   (Chat)  12:07, January 8, 2012 (UTC)

Bankai
I think we can be certain it's his ability, Ichigo stated it himself, that Kugo is still a substitute shinigami, hence can perform Bankai, and Kugo didn't say otherwise.Empty moon (talk) 19:26, December 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree. Its been made fairly clear that Kūgo still has his Shinigami powers. A Zanpakutō section should be made and Bankai added to that. <font color="#008080" face="Verdana">Ten Tailed Fox  <font color="#FF0000" face="Verdana"> (Talk with me) 19:30, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

He is not using his Zanpakuto, even if he does have Shinigami powers, something that was stated in the preceding discussion of this topic. We do not know the circumstances regarding how he is able to activate Bankai through his Fullbring. What I was going to propose (before I remembered that the above conversation was closed) is that we have a section in his Powers & Abilities section labeled "Bankai" rather than "Zanpakuto", since he is not in his Shinigami form, he is not using a Zanpakuto, and there is no clear explanation for which means his Bankai is activated from. Saying it's a product of his Fullbring seems speculative, but at the same time, saying that it's a product of something he has not been using at all is just as speculative. Until we get a clear explanation (which may not even happen), I think this is the best way to go for now, because if we go with Fullbring or with Zanpakuto in this, both scenarios are speculative at best. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  19:36, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I would agree with Arrancar. Label a section for Bankai since there's no clear explanation for how he's been able to activate it even though he's still in his human form and we have no other information regarding his zanpakuto, at the moment. Unless he casted his human form to the side similar to Ichigo when he activated his new powers, completely offscreen. Seems the best course of action since we don't have any information on his zanpakuto, its appearance, its shikai or anything else. Up until now, Sword of Scaffold is still regarded as his fullbring power. Northstar1012 (talk) 19:44, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I meant. We just know he can perform Bankai, it's not a result from him stealing Ichigo's power, but it isn't his Fullbring, for only Zanpakto can go into Bankai. To label a section as Bankai rather than adding Zanpakto or adding it to Fullbring, is much better.Empty moon (talk) 19:53, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Arrancar's suggestion seems like the best thing to do. I support his solution. 19:55, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Normally I am very cautious about how the powers and abilities sections are handled but I have to agree with Arrancar109 on this cause there isnt any real information and we dont know if the required info will ever be given, until further notice I think this is the most practical thing to do. --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  20:59, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Alright, I went ahead and added it in, including his abilities in his Bankai form. If we are able to get an explanation as to what means he activates his Bankai, then we'll change the way it is currently laid out. Until then, this solution seems best. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  09:40, December 21, 2011 (UTC)

Cero
I'm quite positive Kugo fired a Cero. Should it be added to his 'Power and Abilities'-section and under which label? Or should make a new label, like for his Bankai?Empty moon (talk) 20:49, December 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * He did not fire a cero. There is nothing to suggest that it is a cero. First of all, Kugo is not a visored. Second of all, in all instances we have seen of a Shinigami firing a cero, it is charged from a part of their body. Kugo released that blast from his sword, suggesting more that it is an ability of his Bankai rather than a cero.--
 * It actually could be. See this. If he has Hollow powers, then it could very well be a Cero. 22:36, December 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * You know, Harribel shoops the whoop from her sword too.--B14 (talk) 22:38, December 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I too think it's a Cero: here, panel 2, the way he's casting that attack, starting from a ball and then expanding it in panel 4, it just looks like a real Cero. Remmirath90 (talk) 23:51, December 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * It is not a Cero. Kugo is not a Visored. He cannot fire a cero.--

Godisme, it is true that he's not a Visored, but he did say he had Hollow powers and also his eyes pretty much confirm that he's Hollowfied in some manner. It isn't far-fetched to say it isn't a Cero, but at the same time, it wasn't confirmed. So, what I mean to say is, it's way too early to say it is or isn't a Cero. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity 04:09, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Aren't you taking it a bit too far? Visoreds are not the only "species" that can fire Cero. Tosen was not a Visored, yet he could fire a Cero because he Hollowfied himself. We are not certain of what exactly Kugo meant with "I also have some hollow in me". Maybe he merged with it, maybe he absorbed its powers, maybe he has a Hollow like Ichigo's, we have too little information to be calling what level of Hollow abilities he can and can not perform. On the facts that we know, Kugo fired a beam of light that looked like a Cero, because you can't deny it didn't. If it was or was not a Cero, that much we don't know, thus we can't go around saying he can't shoot a Cero because the extent of his abilities is pretty much unknown to us. We'll have to wait until we receive further confirmation (though I'm almost betting there won't be any) or leave is Unnamed technique if there isn't any, but at this point it is too soon to be making definitive statements. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  19:02, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Just wait for either Tite Kubo to confirm if Kugo's attack was a Cero or a Getsuga Tensho, or wiat for the anime to colour it, and we should be able to tell from there. Sicarius001 (talk)

Anime coloring it doesn't tell us squat, since Ulquiorra introduced his own green-colored Cero, and other beings had different colored Ceros since. Either it has to be confirmed in-story or in a character book. Until then, we're keeping the attacked unnamed. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  03:35, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Spiritual Power & Fullbring
The part about sensing reiatsu/spiritual beings from section "Spiritual Power" should be put into a new one - "Spiritual Awareness". Also, in a few latest chapters Kugo is shown to have a great amount of spiritual power. Considering that, we should add corresponding info and a put a power level. Lastly, shoudln't the paragraph regarding control over Yukio's Fullbring be put under "Fullbring" section? --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   23:06, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Equipment
You can change the image of the manga for this anime. 19:54, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Unlock?
Any thoughts about unlocking this page? It is doubtful we will get an explanation about Kugo's bankai anytime soon since he's gone and this arc seems to come to the an end. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   03:05, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Not sure what the other administrators will think, but I'd wait on this for awhile. Some other users who are not regulars here may try (and have tried) to change it in a way that determines that Kugo's Bankai stems from a Zanpakuto. I'd say either a few more days or maybe a week, and then I'll unlock the page myself. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  03:16, December 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Scratch that, Salubri unlocked it. <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  03:17, December 27, 2011 (UTC)

Race
After looking for the information about his history, I haven't found anything that confirms or hints he lost his Shinigami powers. Considering that, shouldn't we list him as a Shinigami in his infobox? --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   22:20, February 2, 2012 (UTC)
 * We have no evidence that he still is. Aside from that, he is not really a Shinigami but a Substitute, a Human who gained Shinigami powers. He stated he is a Fullbringer so that is all we have to go on until Kubo explains something.--