Talk:Gin Ichimaru/Archive 4

Personality and Dried Persimmons
In Gin's personality section, it mention that he has had a love for dried persimmon ever since he was a child, and that he makes some in the squad barracks. What exactly does that have to do with his personality? Honestly, it just seems like unnesecarry clutter. It should probably be removed, as I know that info comes from the bootleg, and if it's here, it seems like we'd need to do it to everyone it has info on. At the very least, it should be moved out of personality.

Whoops, keep forgetting to sign my posts. NightTrain (talk) 22:38, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

His love of dried persimmon and his devotion to his favourite food is mentioned in the personality section because it is part of what defines his personality. It stays. Incidentally, we DO have bootleg information mentioned in other profiles - such as Aizen's love of Tofu, Kira teaching in the Shinigami Academy etc, etc. It's pretty standard information to have in the personality section. Tinni  (Talk)  22:55, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Well I guess i missed that. But could you explain to me what it has to do with personality? There is a lot of info on peoples favorites food, and it may just be me, but i don't see what it has to do with personality. For example, Momo loves peaches, and Nanao likes sweet bean jelly. I'm not saying it's bad info, i'm just questioning if it belongs in the personality. NightTrain (talk) 02:15, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Likes are a part of a person's personality. Food likes are as much a part of personality as what tv shows they like, what they like to do with their free time and what kind of people they associate with. Its all what makes up personality--

Now I understand. But still, is the part about him making them for his barracks really necessary? NightTrain (talk) 02:38, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

If he enjoys making them for his barracks than yes it is part of his personality. Personality is a very wide range of things.--

Seems like clutter to me, but you guys know best.NightTrain (talk) 02:44, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Bankai Stats
Hi everyone. I noticed that this article lists Gin Ichimaru's Bankai's Blade Extension & Contraction stats as given in chapter 400. However, in chapter 414, he says (in a translated scan), "A long time ago I told you about my Bankai's ability, right? Sorry but I was lyin' about it. It don't extend as far as I said it did and it don't extend as fast as I said it did." I think it would make sense to amend the aforementioned section in the article to account for this. I'd do it myself, but I very rarely edit here and I wouldn't want to make a mess editing in an unfamiliar setting. Thanks! -- 10X Kamehameha


 * This is a old topic point. No one is blind it if you have been here before you should know how on top of things we are. It was decided to leave it as is. Gin was talking to someone else at the time so its a different conversation. Secondly by view of his bankai it is decidedly true of it capabilities. Gin never explains his meanings in this regard but most importantly its not a admission of something being incorrect its an admission that that wasn't the important factor of the bankai capability. He was emphasizing the poison ability not its length or speed which was the assumption of it being the main component of the ability, they are not but it doesn't mean that they aren't apart of it.--Salubri (Talk)  02:32, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

As stated above, I very rarely edit here, but I would hope that accuracy is important to editiors. However, let me try and understand what you are trying to say. You are saying that Gin Ichimaru demonstrates in the manga the ability to do exactly what we have seen him tell people. Additionally, you are speculating that Gin told Aizen that his abilities were even more impressive than anything evidenced in the manga, and that it is those theoretical, higher limits that Gin tells Aizen were lies. Is that correct? -- 10X Kamehameha


 * There is no speculation. Your placing one conversation between him and Aizen as being the continuation of conversation he had with Ichigo earlier. They are in fact separate entirely, in place, context and with who he was speaking with, one does not explain the other. Gin is admitting to nothing more then being misleading in the true capabilities of his bankai. He mislead in allowing the belief that his bankai was about speed and length when it was really about poison. The same as him misleading Ichigo earlier when emphasizing his zanpakuto length to distract away from its speed. The length and speed is readily seen so they in fact cant be outright lies at best they are misinformation of importance. The length and speed are not whats important.--Salubri (Talk)  05:51, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

You are clearly confused about what the word "lie" means. If Gin told Aizen what he told Ichigo, then said it was a lie, then that can't mean "it's actually true... but also some other thing (the poison power) is true." That's actually irrelevant since you're also confused about my interpretation of what you just said though. I'm not considering the conversations with Ichigo and with Aizen as the same, I'm inferring that Gin spoke with Aizen previously, since that's what you said. The content of the Gin-Aizen conversation being different than everything we ever see Gin tell others is what you're speculating, presumably to tie up the loose end of Gin's Bankai stats being otherwise unquantified. As to, "The length and speed is readily seen," (should be are not is by the way...) you're speculating a ton to presume the exact speed and length of a sword matching Gin's claims from static manga panels. I don't have a problem with that if there was an earlier consensus, I just wanted to make sure we're on the same page.

In any case, I'm satisfied with the issue pending one last thing. Is there an archive of this talk page's topics somewhere? -- 10X Kamehameha


 * At the top of the page, you will find links to the three archives of this page.--

3rd Seat?
I didn't realize it until today, but we have Ichimaru listed as a former 3rd set. When was Ichimaru ever stated to be a 3rd seat? I know he killed the 5th Division's 3rd Seat during the Turn Back the Pendulum series, but I don't remember any mention of him taking over the 3rd seat position. Arrancar109 (Talk)  18:35, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering that too, i believe he may have been arbitrarily given the position by Aizen after killing him. That would be a direct tract to in advancement especially considering he followed after with being lieutenant. I dont recall i think that was something of a test. Kill the former and you can take his position. Other then that i dont see a reason for Gin killing him, it seemed to be a set up by Aizen or something. Idk for sure though.--Salubri (Talk)  19:04, September 26, 2011 (UTC)

Ability to Bend?
So, I was re-reading the manga today, and I came across this - http://www.mangareader.net/94-631-3/bleach/chapter-177.html.

And I couldn't find mention of Gin's zanpakuto's ability to bend and take it's own path when extending. It doesn't just extend straight out, as evidenced by when it retreated, the path it took was warped - not a straight line. Is this an ability that should be added to the description of his Shikai? Igaram (talk) 19:31, October 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * This was discussed before (see archive 1 at the top of the page) and it was decided that this could be added to the trivia section. By the way, the picture shows Shinso flexing as it returns to its normal state, not as it extends. 19:46, October 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ah, right, okay then. Just thought that, logically, it'd take the same pathway back as it did forwards, like it has done every other time. Igaram (talk) 19:47, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Wait, I can't seem to find it in the trivia. Has it been removed? If so, then it should probably be noted somewhere that in shikai form Gin's Zanpakuto is anything but completely rigid, as it is able to take wildly altered pathways (even if it's only when retracting). Igaram (talk) 19:51, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Bankai
Reference No. 101 can't be used for supporting the statement about his bankai. It cites chapter 17, which has nothing to do with Gin or his bankai. -- The Goblin   I'm feelin' the flow   02:29, July 5, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's been fixed 15:43, July 5, 2012 (UTC)

Spiritual Pressure
Why was the majority of the visored's spiritual pressure changed from immense to great along with Gin's? Was there a change in definition of spiritual pressure? Gin has been shown to have a very high spiritual pressure that can incapacitate people and he isn't overwhelmed by Aizen's spiritual pressure even when he is transformed. He and toshiro were equally releasing equal amounts of reiatsu when they fought. Finally, tosen is listed as having immense spiritual pressure yet has not shown anything more impressive than gin in feats or release of reiatsu. He also easily beat the 3rd seat of the 5th division at a young age showing he has a high control of his spiritual pressure along with alot of it. By the definition in the reiatsu page, this means he should be listed as having an immense spiritual pressure. 209Kenpachi (talk) 18:35, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, on the talk page of Reiryoku, I pointed out that the "Great" level of spiritual power, while supposedly the average level of a captain, was in fact only applied to 3 captains out of all 20+ captains in the history of the Gotei 13, and Salubri admitted that the spiritual power levels were overblown, so she went around making necessary adjustments. I would take it up with her. Xilinoc (talk) 05:38, November 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * He and not a She Xilinoc. But in general user opinion on what a characters power level is not how this site determines power levels, seeing as they tend to be bias and opinionated. Great is the level for captains. He is no less for having great spiritual power. How he uses that power is no less or greater then any captain. Him being around Aizen is no different then a few others in Aizen's presence that had no problem, even a few of ichigo's classmates could stand in his presence so thats no indication. Toshiro's spiritual power effects the atmosphere and has been stated on more then once at how large and powerful it is, and yes his techniques were more versatile and impressive, but thats besides the point. For all anyone knows that 3rd seat he fought wasnt very powerful but that matters little considering no one said he wasnt skilled or powerful at a young age. Regardless his level has been evaluated and determined, thats the final word on that.--
 * Sorry about that Salubri, I have trouble determining the gender of those on this site without an indicator of some sort. Anyway, can we close this discussion?Xilinoc (talk) 19:02, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Kamishini no Yari wording issues
"However, Gin has also stated that his Bankai is not as fast or as long as he originally claimed, but he hasn't elaborated on this statement further to determine what he is specifically referring to." - this statement is stupid. It is quite obviously what he is specifically referring to. He had given the supposed length of Kamishini no Yari (13 metric system kilometers) and the supposed speed at which it contracts and expands (1/500th of the time it takes to clap). Then he simply said he had overstated these figures in order to disguise the "Kill" ability, simple as that. This should be worded differently. Xfing (talk) 23:32, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * He states that he lied to Aizen, he states the length and speed of the Bankai to Ichigo. How do you know he said the same thing to both?--

Spiritual Pressure
Why was the majority of the visored's spiritual pressure changed from immense to great along with Gin's? Was there a change in definition of spiritual pressure? Gin has been shown to have a very high spiritual pressure that can incapacitate people and he isn't overwhelmed by Aizen's spiritual pressure even when he is transformed. He and toshiro were equally releasing equal amounts of reiatsu when they fought. Finally, tosen is listed as having immense spiritual pressure yet has not shown anything more impressive than gin in feats or release of reiatsu. He also easily beat the 3rd seat of the 5th division at a young age showing he has a high control of his spiritual pressure along with alot of it. By the definition in the reiatsu page, this means he should be listed as having an immense spiritual pressure. 209Kenpachi (talk) 18:35, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, on the talk page of Reiryoku, I pointed out that the "Great" level of spiritual power, while supposedly the average level of a captain, was in fact only applied to 3 captains out of all 20+ captains in the history of the Gotei 13, and Salubri admitted that the spiritual power levels were overblown, so she went around making necessary adjustments. I would take it up with her. Xilinoc (talk) 05:38, November 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * He and not a She Xilinoc. But in general user opinion on what a characters power level is not how this site determines power levels, seeing as they tend to be bias and opinionated. Great is the level for captains. He is no less for having great spiritual power. How he uses that power is no less or greater then any captain. Him being around Aizen is no different then a few others in Aizen's presence that had no problem, even a few of ichigo's classmates could stand in his presence so thats no indication. Toshiro's spiritual power effects the atmosphere and has been stated on more then once at how large and powerful it is, and yes his techniques were more versatile and impressive, but thats besides the point. For all anyone knows that 3rd seat he fought wasnt very powerful but that matters little considering no one said he wasnt skilled or powerful at a young age. Regardless his level has been evaluated and determined, thats the final word on that.--
 * Sorry about that Salubri, I have trouble determining the gender of those on this site without an indicator of some sort. Anyway, can we close this discussion?Xilinoc (talk) 19:02, November 25, 2012 (UTC)

Kamishini no Yari wording issues
"However, Gin has also stated that his Bankai is not as fast or as long as he originally claimed, but he hasn't elaborated on this statement further to determine what he is specifically referring to." - this statement is stupid. It is quite obviously what he is specifically referring to. He had given the supposed length of Kamishini no Yari (13 metric system kilometers) and the supposed speed at which it contracts and expands (1/500th of the time it takes to clap). Then he simply said he had overstated these figures in order to disguise the "Kill" ability, simple as that. This should be worded differently. Xfing (talk) 23:32, March 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * He states that he lied to Aizen, he states the length and speed of the Bankai to Ichigo. How do you know he said the same thing to both?--