Forum:"Path of least bloodshed"

I think that I've known this for a while but it's only recently that I read the Do U Think Gin Could Turn On Aizen that I decided to put this down, Tosen meant every word of Justice and path of least bloodshed, has anyone asked themselves what would happen if Aizen won.... The guy is a megalomaniac he loves power and control therefore anyone his control would be forced to bend to his will since he has the power to do so swiftly and decisively, he won't beat around the bush and Tosen knows this all too well, (his main drive was the death of his friend right but Soul Society didn't do anything about it most likely since nothing has been said about it aside from what we got from Tosen) and thus less deaths will occur and there will be "Justice" since in Tosen's mind you sacrifice a few to save many he is, contrary to popular belief not in the very least a hypocrite.--SalmanH 19:13, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

That's under the assumption that Tosen knows what on Aizen's mind, the fact is its not likely he seems to be manipulated by Aizen, who uses his own philosophy against him. Prime example if you recall the interaction between Tosen, Aizen and Grimmjaw. After the incident Gin remarks how how he likes to mess with his subordinates. There is no doubt through the interactions that are taking place, Gin is more of an equal in terms of status with aizen or rather favor. Tosen on the other hand follows his philosophy and acts as a lowly subordinate to aizen, always asking for forgiveness and permission. I will agree in Tosen's mind he is doing the right thing, he is following his philosophy. Notice whether it be in Soul Society or Hueco Mundo he follows Aizen just the same and has a position of authority. He also as in soul society detests Kenpachi and in hueco mundo he detests Grimmjaww, neither place is any different to him, he truly is blind. Only believing in his philosophy and the notion that some way Aizen can bring it about. So i dont think there was ever a question of whether he thinks he is following his path but there is a big argument to which way one can go about it to achieve it. He chose the way that in most others minds would be the path of most bloodshed, be it shinigami or humans. As it would stand the only way that for a outsider looking in to justify his actions would require that there is actual more bloodshed by Shinigami taking place before the entire Aizen incident which is questionable. Also your right what happened to his friend deeply effected him but, least we forget we don't know the circumstances behind her death or anything besides what he is given. He is the hypocrite in the sense to how others precise him (which is normally how people classify hypercritical actions) maybe not in his mind but that doesn't make him any less of one.Salubri 19:42, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

If I may clarify a few things:
 * Shinigami and hollows have been fighting each other for what seems like an eternity, Aizen ruling over SS and Hueco Mundo without any opposition means either genocide or no feuds at all (speculation I know).


 * I agree that Tosen is perceived by others a hypocrite though it's only been mentioned by us (real people) no one in the bleach universe however, although they are probably thinking it.


 * Tosen's a slightly bigger threat to Aizen than people give him credit for, he can't be affected by his zanpakuto has a bankai that deprives you of all your senses except for touch and has pretty damn good skills in all forms of shinigami combat granted not on par with aizen but his zanpakuto's ability does give him an edge, the whole forgiveness and permission thing probably just means that he's polite or a doormat.


 * Wasn't it already mentioned that his friend was killed by her drunk husband whom she was reprimanding for killing a friend over an argument other than that... yeah I got nothing.

(PS. I really don't like him and see him as a coward but someone needs to tel his side of the story too I suppose.)--SalmanH 20:13, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Regarding your second point, SalmanH, one of the Captains (Sajin Komamura) has questioned his philosophy, and questioned where his sense of justice is, essentially calling him a hypocrite for following Aizen, without using those precise words. Twocents 20:18, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh yeah I forgot about that, thanks Twocents, do you want in on this whole thing too, we kinda need a second opinion.--SalmanH 20:28, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

The problem is hollows aren't good in any sense they feed on human souls there is no debating that, Aizen being in control wont stop their nature nor does it make sense to insinuate that being that he doesn't even control all Arrancar. This not a simple war against different ideologies. This is a situation of balance in the universe the Shinigami keep it and the hollow disrupt it. Aizen like you said wants power what he will do with that power is left up to be determined. As we see he doesn't seem to be the least concerned with what damage his arrancar do, they barely get punished if at all. As for Tosen being polite or a doormat is one thing but that is not whats being shown he acts like a servant more then anything and aizen excepts it, there is a level of respect you give others we have seen it in bleach between subordinates and captains but Tosen reaches a bit more then that. While its possible to be a danger to Aizen if Kenpachi can take his bankai without knowing what it does initially its fair to say aizen can take it though your correct his aizen's zanpakuto cant affect him. Interestingly enough the one person who cant be effected by him is on his side. Yes it was mentioned about her death but by him we dont know what took place or what happened afterwords he like this situation we are discussing could have a completely skewed view of what transpired against someone he deeply cared for, its left in the air that's all im saying. Your also right we mention him being a hypocrite but they never say it outright though in other words komamura has brought it up on various occasions without going that far like twocents said. I really dont like him either he is a coward to me and one of my least favorite characters.Salubri 20:29, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

If you'd like SalmanH, I'll attempt to address a few of the points brought up, from my perspective.
 * I concur that, in his own mind, he has not done anything to go against his own philosophy, which does seem to suggest he's a bit more aware of what's going on than what information we readers have been given anyway. However, that doesn't prevent other people from thinking he's a hypocrite (like Sajin) or a coward (as I recall Kenpachi calling him one of the few people to fear death). It's also likely that his past experiences have had an effect on his current thoughts and actions, as you would expect with most people.


 * However, I disagree that because he cannot be affected by Aizen's Zanpakuto that he is not being manipulated. I think there are a variety of ways to trick, manipulate and control people, and while affecting what one sees is a powerful thing, so is psychologically affecting someone, which Aizen also seems to be a master at. On a side note, I would think that Gin is more resistant to that form of manipulation, seeing as he is exceptionally crafty at also using it.


 * As far as interactions with the Arrancar and Hollows, we really don't see enough of that side of it for me to formulate an opinion. Twocents 20:37, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

For the record I never really liked SalmanH it takes too long to type you could just call me hassan or hs I don't really mind, whatever you guys are comfortable with, but back to Tosen we've established that he is a coward but is following his own code his way and it doesn't matter to him what anyone else thinks about it, but I also think that because he can't be affected by Aizen's zanpakuto he became one of Aizen's right hand men in the first place and this probably done so through fear of death. So is this resolved or should we just move on to something else. In either case thanks for relaying some of your thoughts here.