Talk:Uryū Ishida

Portrait
Shouldn't we find a picture of ishida with his current bow and/or the seele shneider weapons?Arieus 09:47, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Yes we should. The pic we have is from Wikipedia I believe, or at least the former picture on Wikipedia. Renji Abarai 22:14, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Licht Regen?
how do you say Licht Regen? i have no idea how to speak german--Kisukeiscool100396 21:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)


 * German is more or less how it's written, it is much more straightforward a language than English. Just one thing: ch in German is pronounced more like J in Spanish. This consonant doesn't exist in English and is usually replaced by a K. Weedefinition 21:40, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

his hand
can i put under trivia that uryu is one of 3 that has lost a hand/arm Kon lover123 19:59, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * No. I consider that Junk Trivia. Minato  22:12, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Picture
Shouldn't have Uryu's picture more current than that old one that people keep on changing it back to whenever someone changes it to something new? Shouldn't our dear Quincy have an updated picture himself? IchigoKitty 05:54, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

There should definatly be a better and newer pic of uryu since he has gotten new powers.

Cleanup
I was browsing his article, and his powers/abilities section is rather confusing and scattered. I purposed we work to clean it up.--Kylecharmed 23:03, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Multilingual
Should multilingual be listed in his powers and abilities? I think this should be put somewhere else.--Shinitenshi 15:40, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

I would agree that it's not a power or ability. I also wonder how much of a stance we can put on it, since being capable of counting in another language and knowing a phrase or two hardly seems enough to say he's multilingual. I can count and say some words and phrases in a variety of languages, but I wouldn't say that I am multilingual. Even if we do decide that he knows enough to say he can speak more than one language, from what I've seen, he'd only be bilingual, since he speaks Japanese and a bit of Spanish, (or English and a bit of Spanish in the dub), but not more than that. Twocents 20:16, November 12, 2009 (UTC)

Ametatsu Ishida
In episode 11, when the list of the top 50 students is hung in the hallway, the name of the #1 student isn't Uryū Ishida but Ametatsu Ishida. Does anybody know why that is or what it means? I don't know what's it like in the manga because the scanlated version I've seen has Uryū Ishida. Also, shouldn't there be a mention of that on his page, in the trivia section maybe? Weedefinition 20:31, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I can't read Japanese so this is news to me. It is without a doubt an error. Both Ichigo and Orihime while reading it read Uryu Ishida. Trivia, if u want to add it I am not against it, but please make it short. Minato 20:36, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Try this on for size: at around 6:27 Weedefinition 20:57, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * HOLY CRAP!!!!! Is Uryu his middle name?????? I... don't know what to say right now. I guess I am going to talk to Yyp about this. Weede does Ichigo say that in Japanese too. Minato 21:01, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, he most certainly does :) Weedefinition 21:06, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo can't read Japanese that well and mis read it as Ametatsu, Tatsuki corrected him, and Ishida is the family name, Uryuu is his first name.--SalmanH 21:18, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * SalmanH, i'm not entirely sure that is correct. Ichigo only read Chads name wrong and when u listen to him pronounce it the first time in japanese he says Chado mistaken for Sado. Plus he was like unconcious and dizzy. Also he is japanese and has GOOD GRADES. How could he be ranked Twenty Third if he can't read???! Also Orihime said thats Uryu andTatsuki confirmed this. The way it is said states that they KNOW Uryu. Also they berated him for forgeting that Uryu is in their class. Minato 21:24, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

I think it was in the Bount arc even though it's non canon he and Renji had an argument about spelling or something similar and having good grades doesn't you're good at most things educational, just because a person speaks perfect English an let's say comes from the states or UK even doesn't mean they'd be perfect readers or great with grammar and I think that those scores weren't based on school topics but rather a variation of an IQ test, it's Japan plenty of students there are quite intelligent and they are pretty tough when it comes to education.--SalmanH 21:38, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

That scene is different in the anime to the manga. In the manga (chapter 35), Ichigo was trying to remember Ishida's name and Inoue told him it was Uryu and pointed at the exam table, where his name was given as Uryu, not Ametatsu. Also, comparing the Kanji shown in the anime are the exact same as the kanji currently on Uryu's page. So it looks like Ichigo mis-pronouncing Uryu's name. -- Yyp  (Talk)  21:44, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Probably yeah but it's late here and I wasn't wiling to check the manga, so you two can talk to Yyp now good night.--SalmanH 21:48, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Just checked the raw of chapter 35 and it is indeed the same kanji as Uryu. So it was a mistake on Ichigo's part, imo. -- Yyp  (Talk)  21:49, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Well I guess we have our answer. Huh, that one really had me confused, but seriously. I.Q test or whatever, standard reading of letters Kanji or English or Spanish or French is basic elementary school. How is Ichigo not able to get that right? &#91;&#91;w:c:Bleach:User talk:Minato88&#124;&lt;span style=&quot;font size 95.25; font family: courier new; color: FFFF00&quot; &#39;&#39;&#39;Minato&#39;&#39;&#39;&lt;/span&gt;&#93;&#93; 22:07, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Thats my new Sig LOL. No I am having problems right now hope to fix it.

Not knowing Japanese all that well, it's kind of confusing, but I think there was an omake about Ichigo not being able to read the kanji of a shop name in the anime (maybe in the manga too) because he didn't recognize it, but knew it belonged to a certain group of kanji and was thus able to make guesses at a possible pronunciation. Maybe something similar was going on here. -- Yyp  (Talk)  22:36, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Ichigo might be dyslexic. They have a hard time reading and concentrating, but if they are intelligent and they put their minds to it, they can do very well. I have a friend who recently finished his BA in marine biology, and he used to be in a special education class until the 7nth grade. Weedefinition 23:32, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

He's not dyslexic. Kanji is a complex language that I myself don't know how to read but I can tell you this: Kanji can be read in many different ways. The kanji in Uryu's firstname are quite complicated if you compare them to those of his last name. The first Kanji (雨) means Rain and can be read "u" according to the On reading, and "ame", "ama" or "same" according to the Kun reading. The second kanji (竜) means Dragon. The On reading can be "ryu" "ryo" or "ro", while the Kun reading is "tatsu". Ichigo isn't dislexic, he just read the kanji in Kun instead of On. This doesn't mean that Uryu can be called either Uryu or Ametatsu, it was just a misreading from Ichigo. I hope it's clear now. Lia Schiffer 02:56, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Proper names for bows
I just noticed that we do not have the proper names for Ishida's bow. They should be something like Ginrei Kojaku, Kojaku etc. However, right now it is just the translation "Lone Sparrow" etc. I just wanted to flag this as I can't get to them right at this moment. If anyone else would like to rectify this oversight, it would be much appreciated. Unless of course people are happy with how things are now and don't think having the proper names will help matters. I mean, if I am the only one bothered with this then that's fine. We don't have to change it. Tinni  (Talk)  07:50, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * I added the names of the first bow and the current bow, it was in his Wikipedia page. But there was no mention of the "Lone Sparrow final form". It could be the same as Tōsen's Bankai name: Suzumushi Tsuishiki: Enma Kōrogi (清虫終式閻魔蟋蟀, Cricket Final Form) out of which the Kanji that means "Final form" are 終式 (I think) but I have no idea if that is the correct name, and even if it is, I have no idea what the Romaji is. Weedefinition   (Talk)  12:23, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I asked Adam Restling to check them and below is what he said. So it turns out we had the translation wrong. So I'll go fix those now. I actually couldn't provide Adam with a reference for the chapter and page were Ishida or someone else uses the term "final form" something, something. So we'll have to wait for the that one. Anyway, I'll make the necessary changes now. Tinni  (Talk)  11:03, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

If the kanji are correct (there's no page reference, so if you could provide one to cut down on the amount of perusing it'd be good), than Kojaku (the correct form, not the current form Kōjaku) is actually "arc sparrow" (ko "arc, arch, bow"); if the kanji are, likewise, correct for Ginrei Kojaku, the name actually means "arc sparrow (of the) silver peak." I'll try to get to the rest tomorrow, but if you could provide the pages wherein are mentioned all these forms of Ishida's, as well as the "Senzaikyuu" and "Sougou Kyuugo Tsumesho," it would really cut down on the time :) . Adam Restling 09:43, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I got the information back from Adam and then some! It's all given below. Tinni  (Talk)  18:49, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, duh! What a McGovern I've been XD! I totally forgot Ishida's weapons were in the popularity poll! Yeah, the kanji seem correct, at least for those which are available there. But I'm very excited, because I think I've uncovered an error all the translators (even the Japanese ones!!) have made by parroting each others' first goof: the Quincy "final form" (found it! mentioned by Ryuuken, BLEACH 226, page 16) is called Quincy: Letzt Stil (滅却師最終形態（クインシー・レツトシュティール）Kuinshī Retsutoshutīru, Japanese for "destruction sage: final form," then "Quincy" [whose underlying kanji = "destruction sage"] + German for "last style"), based on German letzt-, letze(r) "last"--although the lack of a <・> between the katakana suggests Kubo wants it to be Letztstil. Apparently, even the Japanese Wiki-ers mistook the full ツ tsu element for tiny ッ, which just doubles the following consonant sound; thus, they goofed and gaveRetsuto as Re tt o, even though German letzt is pronounced like [letst] and so Retsuto would make more sense (and the raw chaper actually does seem to have the full ツ). Despite this, others have picked up the translation Letzt, though they've misspelled Stil as "Stile." Very exciting to catch this long-time error... and it just sounds boss :) !

Seele Schneider should have its underwriter (tamashii/kon wo kirisakumono) removed, as I don't know if it's ever specified as being read such a way (if I'm wrong, please give me the page where the underlying kanji meaning is designated to also have the reading tamashii/kon ~ etc.); otherwise, we'll have to go back and do it for everything, such as Arrancar (whose kanji *could* read, in Japanese, as yamen) and, given how many various but equivalid readings kanji can have, would be a non-canonical nightmare. So keep it as Seele Schneider (魂を切り裂くもの（ゼーレシュナイダー）Zēreshunaidā) (note it should be Zēreshunaidā, not short-e/a Z e reshunaid a  as currently), Japanese and German for "soul cutter"--although the lack of an <・> between the katakana, as well as his actual romanization in the raw, suggests Kubo wants it to be Seeleschneider. The translation "that which slits the soul" is alright I guess, but the breakdown for the kanji is, more lit. "soul(s) (accusative particle wo) cut-splits-er" (suffix -mono is "thing, person," a usual agential like English -er); compare the Japanese series Erufu wo Karumonotachi "elf(/ves) hunter (plural suffix)," which is usually translated Those Who Hunt Elves. The verb kirisaku, as cited above, means "cut (off)," as it derives more lit. from kiru, kiri- "cut" and saku, "split, rend, burst (apart)." I might suggest "soul render," but it's your call. Likewise, the short e in the katakana of Licht Regen, R e gen, should be Rēgen. I didn't look at any other terms but these, so some *may* still be in error. Adam Restling 17:56, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Actually I just realised that Adam's information does not contain what we were looking for... Tinni  (Talk)  18:59, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. It wouldn't seem to be that there's a separate name for a Kojaku: Final Form other than the enhanced form that is Ginrei Kojaku. The quest for this Japanese term = "final form" may've been from confusion with Ryuuken's mention of the Letzstil Ishida accessed by removing the Sanrei glove. If anyone can find a mention of a Kojaku "Final Form" rather than just a Quincy Letzstil ("Final Style"), please let us know here :) ; I suppose it would be in the place where he first introduces "Ginrei" Kojaku as the enhanced form (?). Thanks to any and all who preceded my suggestions in uncovering information about the Quincy's/Ishida's powers etc. Adam Restling 22:58, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * I am beginning to think that's its a completely made-up term. I mean the bow being referred to isn't the bow he gets when he uses the Quincy: Letzt Stil, which he got by removing the Sanrei glove. It's the bow that he got while he was using the Sanrei glove (see picture below). The solid white the blue one. I can find no evidence that it has a special name. Tinni   (Talk)  07:34, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Lone Sparrow "Final Form"
Can I please, please, please get a reference on when Ishida calls his solid white and blue bow the "Lone Sparrow "Final Form"" or indeed, when he says what the bow is called. I have looked through all of Ishida's fights from Soul Society (he had only two) and he doesn't actually say his bows name. Your help in this matter would be greatly appreciated as we need the kanji for that bow and to check the translation. Thank you. Tinni  (Talk)  18:59, January 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm.. Maybe he refers to it as such earlier, during his training or it could be something in a flashback that Soken tells him about the glove. I'm gonna search for it now. Weedefinition   (Talk)  06:58, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not finding it in the manga. maybe it's an anime thing? Weedefinition   (Talk)  08:20, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Well I can't find it anywhere. I have now checked the Manga, the Databook of SOULs and even gone through the anime. It is not anywhere. I think if no one can provide a reference within the next week, we'll have good reason to remove it from the article as speculation. Tinni  (Talk)  07:34, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I don't have an english version of it, but these are the pages from the animation book VIBES about the times that bow appeared. If it is not there, then I think we can rule out there ever being a name for it. -- Yyp (Talk) 12:47, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah; in these VIBES pages, most of it keeps talking about Ishida using the "strongest" (最強 saikyou) and "final/ultimate" (最後 saigo) power of the Quincy--which we found out much later from Ryuuken was the "Letzstil"--against Kurotsuchi, and stuff about the "last moment" (最期 saigo). It seems the notion of a "Final Form" for Kojaku may well have been confusion with mere descriptions of it, like these, as the "ultimate/final power" etc. Adam Restling 21:31, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

So I guess the conclusion is that it is not called "Lone sparrow final form" or rather, it does not have a special name. But rather it is still the Kojaku with a different appearance/stronger attack powers. Makes sense I guess, Ishida never said he got any new techniques out of that bow, just that it was stronger. So I am thinking what needs to be done is that the name has to be dropped and the Kojaku paragraph extended to explain that once Ishida started using the glove, his Kojaku changed into a solid blue and white bow. Correct me if I have misunderstood something. Thanks. Tinni  (Talk)  12:39, February 6, 2010 (UTC)