Talk:Sajin Komamura/Archive 2

Shikai Command V.2
Sajin specifically says in English anime and video games: Roar, Tenken. I don't know if the same goes for the sub version, but it should be noted.--Kylecharmed 22:50, January 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please provide an episode reference for the dub so we can check. Tinni   (Talk)  21:38, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

Command is confirmed by "Masked" databook. It's "Todoroke" --Layol (talk) 23:08, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Gif
I made a new gif for Komamura's shikai from the the last episode (289) that I think is better then the old gif and should be used instead of the old gif. Tinni  (Talk)  12:21, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

The fire gives a bit of a false impression (you know how the anime loves to make the simplest things overly dramatic), but it does make things a whole lot more clear than the current gif. I say go for it. Mohrpheus (talk) 12:39, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

I say we should list it as well. --Salubri (Talk)  14:21, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Past Appearance and flashback
Should we put up a pictures of how Komamura looked in the past, his first meeting with Tousen, add the discriptions in the article somewhere?

Also should we add the part about the padding in the anime? (Where he recieves more injuries from Tenken's weaknness by Tousen).

One sign your posts. Two no not necessary at all he wore simple clothing and noting stood out as irregular besides a face covering. Unless he is wearing normal clothing from that of his Shinigami self not unlike the visored then no. Also why would we add more about an attack that was pointless filler for the anime. There was nothing additional worth mentioning besides a couple more attacks from tosen and a few more attacks from him. Not noteworthy as the point was quickly reached in the manga instead of just prolonging. --Salubri (Talk)  19:48, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Piece of trivia
According to Sajin's height and weight, he's technically obese with a Body Mass Index of 36.3. BubbaYoshi (talk) 05:36, March 16, 2011 (UTC)

That would be junk trivia.--

Also, Sajin is not a human so the regular standards of BMI do not apply.Bleachshinigami (talk) 17:03, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

"Phantom body parts"
The few times Komamura has used Shikai (which I count is two/three), he has only conjured the arm of his Giant, once to punch an opponent, and once to slice them with a sword. So, shouldn't it be mentioned that the only body parts he has conjured is an arm? Ruffy 09:52, April 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * No we have no proof thats all he can bring forth. Considering the instances when he did so it may have been practical not to use anything else. To suggest otherwise would be incorrect cause it would be based on from what we know or have seen. But thats like assuming something for a fact when we don't have the information to make that leap. In other words its limiting the scope of the ability without proof.--Salubri (Talk)  15:49, April 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just to play devil's advocate here, wouldn't it violate the speculation policy to say he can conjure anything other than arms? Similar to what you said, nothing we have seen suggests that he can. To be definitive, I suppose I could ask the Translation corner to go over the page from MASKED, which may or may not specify what Tenken's special ability. But for the time being, it should just be left as is. Mohrpheus   (Talk)  16:14, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Deseased Or Still Kicking?
According to the end of the article, it states Komamura was defeated by Aizen at the end of the Fake Town Karakura Town. Since it is the last story arc in the cannon for this character, and the end was rather grim, it is rather unclear as to if he survived or not. Since the other two arcs are anime only, does this mean he survived in the anime? What about the manga? At this point the wiki is unclear.BANKAI! (talk) 02:48, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Please sign your posts. As for your question. He is alive.--

As the article only stated he was defeated, being defeated is different from being killed, the anime directly follows the manga (other then on curtain censored parts or when they were just starting up). He is Alive Desruprot (talk) 18:32, April 30, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, got it. So he still is alive. Somehow the article does say "defeated", but the implication might lead on to say he died. Should it be cleared up? BANKAI! (talk) 02:48, May 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * No. This sites official stand on this (which is understood by those who regularly frequent the site and read the manga) is that defeat only means the fight was lost. Thats pretty clear. Killed or died would be used if that point was to conveyance character as dead.--Salubri (Talk)  02:54, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, gottcha. I am new to the Wiki, so I did not understand that. XD case closed. BANKAI! (talk) 02:57, May 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, gottcha. I am new to the Wiki, so I did not understand that. XD case closed. BANKAI! (talk) 02:57, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

Species
Hes a Fox, not a wolf. Take note of the clay-brown and white fur. More importantly a white chest that runs from the stomach (most seen in the anime, though id wager it runs the length of his body) up to his muzzle, a key trait in fox'es. Furthermore, you will find no brown strains of wolves (pure for that matter), and will not likely (i say in 99% certainty) find any with solid fur color like those of foxes, let alone a split color pattern of a rare brown a solid white; Shades of brown maybe a Sepia, Seal brown, Russet, or even Choloate, but never a Fulvous or Tawny. As a rule of thumb, foxes are a solid two colors, wolves are usually a handful: 5-8 super mixed and jumbled together (natural camoflage). Google Image Search of Fox, clearly see the exact resemblence. Compare that too: Google Image Search of Wolf and you'll arrive at the same conclusion.--Bunniu.

This is not about what he appears to be by his looks, it's what canon states. The official Bootleg states that he is a wolf, we're not going to go around making assumptions on which animal he looks more alike to, since Kubo already said what he is. That's all. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  07:28, May 7, 2011 (UTC)

As the reference for that sentence states, he is a wolf. This comes from an official source, so regardless of what he may look more like to anyone, he is a wolf. As for the colours, call it artistic license. (Bleach Official Bootleg, page 96). 10:15, May 7, 2011 (UTC)

I believe, the real question is what species of wolf is Komamura. Obviously, from the colorations it does not seem like he is a grey wolf; however, his colorations seem to match the red wolf more accuratly. BANKAI! (talk) 14:42, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Please list your source then, if your refering to a 'bootleg', thats a dismissable and laughable citing. In fact his species has only ever once been refered to in the anime series as a "bastard wolf" by zaraki, but he could very well be a cat and still be called that. Nothing factual has ever been stated (if it has list your source), and if you do list it, ensure YOU TRANSLATED CORRECTLY. If your going to claim a apple is an orrage, fine, cite your source. Regardless a note should be made on the page reguarding the likely intentional ambiguity behind his actual species instead of claiming an apple must be an orange, because some guy 200 episodes muttered the word orange as a slight insult. Regardless, clarfication is needed and thus should be noted on the page. -- Bunniu

Bleach: Official Bootleg KaraBuri+: Search it in the upper right hand corner. It's right here on this site, and you can even buy it in English, if you'd like to check it yourself. Kubo was the one who titled the source they're using a 'bootleg,' even though it's an official source, and attacking the longstanding admins/keepers of a site you just recently joined isn't going to change that. The admins here have never done anything but list official information, and they're not about to change their policies just because you don't agree with something the author took artistic liberties in something he stated. If you're going to become angry/insistent about something, do the proper research regarding the in-universe information of the series, and not just what the real world defines as "correct," because if you haven't noticed, this is a fantasy series. Kubo is free bend the rules as much as he likes, and the admins here will only continue to relay the rules and information of the world he created exactly as he says it, with no artistic liberties on their part. .Seshat. (talk) 08:17, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

Do you have nothing better to do than harass members of the Policy & Standards Committee and the Administrators over what you believe is right? What do you hope to achieve by prolonging this meaningless debate over Komamura's species? And besides, you already started this at the end of this page, in which the admins were right to correct you. To sum up, whatever Tite Kubo states in character databooks and the like, has to be considered official. Please desist in wasting the time of users on this wiki. 08:57, May 8, 2011 (UTC)

The Bootleg said that he is a fox. End of discussion--

Komamura's Bankai
Myouou = Vidyaraja

Kokujou = Naraka

Kokujou is the Japanese term for Buddhist hell. And Naraka is Buddhist hell. Also Kalasutra sounds like Kamasutra, which is awful. Just type "Kalasutra" in Google, it returns "Did you mean KAMASUTRA?". But most importantly this page explains it better:

http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/naraka/index.html

"Naraka or Niraya (Tib: dmyal.ba) is the name given to one of the worlds of greatest suffering, usually translated into English as "hell" or "purgatory"." Xcetron (talk) 04:17, July 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * And your point is? If you have a problem with the translation, take it up with the Bleach Wiki:Translation Corner.--


 * Uhm, ok. I'll try to word it better too. Xcetron (talk) 02:34, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

Plot contradictions?
I'm a little confused about Komamura's past. In flashbacks, he joins when Aizen is still lieutenant of the Fifth Division and meets him when he is still in that position. However, in the fake Karakura Town fights when the Visoreds arrive, Komamura does not recognise any of them including Shinji whose lieutenant he talked too. Is this a plothole or am I just thick? Or did Komamura join after the events 100 years ago? Evilgidgit (talk) 22:48, September 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Just because Komamura had joined the Gotei 13, did not mean he knew all the captains and lieutenants. We do not know if he joined the fifth division or another division.--

Sajin's Gauntlets
I believe that Sajin Komamura's gauntlets should be added as Equipment to his page. During his battle with Kaname Tousen, Sajin used his gauntlets several times to block Tousen's attacks with his Suzumushi. Given that Sajin's gauntlets were strong enough to block and deflect a zanpacto owned by a Captain level Shinigami they ought to be mentioned as equipment that he uses in battle.

Spiritwarrior (talk) 19:00, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Shunpo Master?
I think we could say Komamura has proven himself to be a Shunpo Master in recent events. We know for a fact that he is far away from Seireitei at one point, as Bambietta herself points out (Bleach 554). Then, mere pages later, he appears directly in front of her and she herself comments that he got there quickly. That sounds to me almost like a single Shunpo jump - even if it wasn't, it's pretty damn fast. Thoughts? Tommo2304 (talk) 21:08, November 2, 2013 (UTC)Tommo2304


 * Thats not remotely enough to determine his speed. All she says that he wasnt even the seireitei and she only realized that when the bankai flew off into the distance somewhere. Thats her opinion of his location doesnt means its accurate, she assumes that it left the seireitei, though doubtful she gauged where the bankai really went. Secondly she says she didnt expect him to make it there so quickly. None of which is relevant or shows his speed in either way that relates to use of shunpo, he could easily have been anywhere. She's guessing upon observation of his whereabouts not making a point about his speed as it relates to shunpo.--


 * Should we not take the opinions of the Stern Ritter into consideration? There have been several times when a character of ill-repute has made comments that turned out to be completely true (Hichigo's constant boasts about being Zangetsu being one of them). If she noted that his Bankai left the Sereitei, which is a large distance away, and he was able to move in quickly and uninterrupted by ANY Quincy, I'd assume him to be a Shunpo master as well. However, I agree with Sal, for a different reason: Kubo has been very specific in the information that he gives out, and with all the confusion on what exactly has been going during the assault, I think it unwise to make any speculation (other than for fun) seeing as Komamura's zanpakuto and missing heart just became "invincible". Savalric (talk) 10:11, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe not master, but at least expert, in the new chapter 556 he was able to stop Momo just in time before those explosions hit. CoolJazzman (talk) 11:53, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Add Werewolf?
I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but is it possible to have (Werewolf) next to or under soul for his species? Or should we just skip it?-- 10:55, November 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * lets wait for cnet before we do anything just to be sure.--

Good idea! Because we all know of mangapanda's "accuracy." -- 11:10, November 6, 2013 (UTC)

Unnamed Great Grandfather
I think we should make him a page or something.
 * That would just put it in line with the rest of small pages, grouped.--
 * Didn't he have a page for all of 6 hours when he was first revealed?
 * Yea it was and even now its still amounts to maybe 2 or 3 appearances that isnt much for its own page.--
 * Well this thread has recently surfaced, so maybe if another one of those multiple character pages are made he can go there.

Profile Image Switch
Much like we have the switch thing in infoboxes for pre and post time skips, I think we should apply the same principle here for Komamura's wolf and human forms.
 * Sounds sensible. Any character that has undergone a major appearance change should take advantage of the switch option, great tool. But can it be used without saying pre and post timeskip which seems to be what all the others say? --SternRitterÄs (talk) 14:27, November 10, 2013 (UTC)
 * If we did that, we'd also have to do it for Mayuri's different faces, Aizen's transformations, etc. We don't even know how long he'll remain in this form, and the switch thing in the infoboxes is for physical changes that don't, y'know, change their race.


 * tl;dr it's a full body transformation and we have no idea how long he'll be in it, so its place in the appearance section is fine.--Xilinoc (talk) 14:29, November 10, 2013 (UTC)

In Spirits Terms; Reincarnation Means Death
I change die to reincarnate at the part about Sajin's clan didn't die. It was confusing and some people started to think that Sajin isn't a soul.Kibaou (talk) 09:44, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Can somebody please edit Sajin's page!Kibaou (talk) 09:48, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Humanification
I'm apporting the reading for 人化の術 that is Jinka no Jutsu. Raw source:[]. This topic is on the Translation Corner too--EvilDragonLord (talk) 17:05, November 16, 2013 (UTC)
 * Done

Bankai Section Rearrangement
I just wanted to ask for everyone's opinion before making any major changes to the section. Right now, Tengen Myouou's entire physical description is categorized as the Bankai special ability, along with its actual special properties; however, as emphasized by recent chapters, the armored giant itself is the Bankai. The current setup is inconsistent with the Bankai sections of other articles. My proposal is to just move the description of the giant to the small spiel listed after the Bankai's name, and to keep its special properties (Komamura taking its damage and it healing when he gets healed) under its special abilities. I think Dangai Joue is fine as is. Mohrpheus  (Talk)  22:44, November 21, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I see no problem with this.