Bleach Wiki:Translation Corner/Archive 6

Sanskrit Translation
"In Vajrayana Buddhism, a Wisdom King (Sanskrit विद्याराज vidyarāja, Chinese Míngwáng 明王, Japanese 明王 myō-ō)"

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_King

Following this shouldn't the english translation "Wisdom King of Black Ropes Divine Punishment" be used, instead of "Vidyaraja of Kalasutra's Divine Punishment" sanskrit with english translation.

In other words right now a japanese translated to sanskrit and english version is being used. But shouldn't we follow other bankai translations to english like these to give some examples:  Jakuhō Raikōben (雀蜂雷公鞭, Hornet Thunder Whip)  Kamishini no Yari (神殺鎗, God-Killing Spear)  Senbonzakura Kageyoshi (千本桜景厳, Vibrant Display of a Thousand Cherry Blossoms)  Daiguren Hyōrinmaru (大紅蓮 氷輪丸, "Grand Crimson Lotus Ice Ring"; Viz "Great Roaring Coldly Shining Moon")  Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō (金色疋殺地蔵, Golden Leg-Cutting Jizō)

I think it would be better to follow the other translations for consistency and use the english one. Xcetron (talk) 06:35, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

That is the way the translation was done the way it is because thats the direct translation from are own translator. Its neither an option nor necessary to go around changing everything to the most basic translation. The translation here unlike the others is a direct translation that goes from japanese to sanskrit in some areas. We arent making translations of translations here. Everything even in English is rooted in Japanese or chinese or buddhist folklore or language. Plain and simple its not necessary.--Salubri (Talk)  14:51, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

That's negating the translation when it wasn't supposed to be like that in the first place and follow other captains bankais translations. I'll point out some things:

>That is the way the translation was done the way it is because thats the direct translation from are own translator.

Here you say it is that way because it was a translation of your own translator, but not because it is correct which should be the logical answer.

>Its neither an option nor necessary to go around changing everything to the most basic translation.

Here you say is not an option or not necessary, yet the evidence is staggering, captains bankais are all translated from japanese to english, but komamura's is not.

>The translation here unlike the others is a direct translation that goes from japanese to sanskrit in some areas. We arent making translations of translations here.

Here you say we aren't making translations of translations, which is a logical fallacy for a very important reason, it should have been a japanese to english like the other bankais, but it wasn't. And then, you point out something that should have followed other bankais translations, to negate a translation like the other captains bankais.

>Everything even in English is rooted in Japanese or chinese or buddhist folklore or language.

English is rooted in many, many things, not just japanese, chinese and buddhist.

>Plain and simple its not necessary.

Finally here you say is not necessary, yet as I have said before the evidence is staggering, all captains bankais are fully translated from japanese to english but komamura's is not.

I think we should follow consistency in bankais and don't left out komamura's bankai translation from japanese to english, is illogical to say "not making translations of translations" when not only the change would add consistency since the other bankais are translated from japanese to english, but most importanly, when it wasn't supposed to be translated like that in the first place since as I said all bankais are translated from japanese to english but not komamura's bankai. Xcetron (talk) 10:32, July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Your not getting the point so Ill make it very simple. Whats a logical fallacy is that your apparently under the idea that all translations are equal in the regard of the translation like Viz Media does them or some other site does them. The basic concept on this wiki is the actual translation which attained by actually translating the information. In light of that What was being said about English was that the translations are about something either from Japanese, Buddhist or Asian folklore and thus there meaning is lost the more you go into English. This happens more so for for Komamura's bankai then most others. Also Each translation is besides the way it is organized romanji, kanji, english set up unique into itself and not meant to be done according to the way some other article is done. If something is translated and goes from japanese to english easy then fine thats what it is. If something is translated and goes from japanese to sanskrit then fine. Look it up and learn something more instead of the base dumb down version that has no meaning for a speaker of English. Learn what Kalasutra means or Vidyaraja means. This is a English based site but Japanese or true meaning translations are still dominate as can be seen throughout the site. Why because the roots of whats done here is important to the content. Your idea that its not consistent or wasnt ever supposed to be done like that is an opinion. It is very presumptuous to come here and tell people who have worked hard they are doing something wrong and how something should be done, when you yourself dont seem to know. If none of what has been explained is acceptable for you then this may not be the site for you. --Salubri (Talk)  13:29, July 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * If a technique name references a known figure of mythology or folklore, I would use that form in the English gloss. Thus, I translate Kokujou Tengen Myouou as "Vidyaraja of Kalasutra's Divine Punishment" because Kokujou/Kalasutra and myouou/vidyaraja are established borrowed terms. The same thing with Tousen's Bankai, Enmakoorogi "Yama cricket", wherein Enma references Yama, ruler of the underworld.


 * The difference in most of the above Bankai you name is that, at least as far as my knowledge goes, they don't cite the same kind of established, distinct figures, but rather creations of Kubo, e.g. Jakuhou is not some distinct figure being referenced, but merely the alternate, Sino-Japanese reading of the Kanji for suzumebachi, and likewise kami and yari are the reverse, native Japanese readings of the Kanji for Sino-Japanese shin and sou (although *I* would've translated (Konjiki) Ashisogi Jizou as "(gold) leg-cutting Ksitigarbha", as Jizou and its fellow, Mandarin borrowing Dizang reference and are translations of this person and his name. If there are any deeper meanings to the words and names from more esoteric Japanese etc. folklore/myth that I've missed, please tell me: I always strive for the most complete, accurate, yet accessible renderings I can.


 * Like Salubri said: if the nuance and reference is lacking with a fully-English translation like, for the above, simply "black rope heaven punishment illumined king"--which makes no mention of the mytho-historic richness of the words--it's better to use a gloss that gives the user this richer data, if richer data is to be had. Adam Restling (talk) 05:39, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

I think your answers are fair enough. Very well then, I would ask you one thing if you please. Could you archive this thread for further checking if in any case I came to research more on the subject? Thanks in advance. Xcetron (talk) 09:51, August 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think one of the admins or such will archive this once this current version of this page reaches a certain length. Hopefully, anyone who has further questions or insight will be able to easily find their way here to post :). Adam Restling (talk) 02:43, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the consideration. Xcetron (talk) 22:02, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Águila's Release Command
I think that "Scalp" is wrong here, which means removing the scalp, and that its English dub command is more accurate (頂を削れ). Mad Rest 18:37, August 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, the phrase apparently means "Shave off the top of the head," so translating it as "scalp" isn't necessarily wrong... --Reikson (talk) 19:17, August 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * I guess, then, the decision is whether to keep it as simply "scalp", or to render it in a fuller, more lit. as "shave off/shear the crown/scalp". It makes me laugh, though, to think of ADR English dubbers having to cover all the syllables of itadaki wo kezure with something like "ScaaaAAaaaAAAllpp!" XD. Adam Restling (talk) 04:49, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Yushima Kanji clarification
Just recently, in Episode 337 Yushima's full name was revealed as "Ōko Yushima". The Kanji someone put there is this: 湯島 桜花. If written correctly, it should read "Yushima Ōko", but I'm not sure if this kanji correct, because the above shot of Yushima's records in the 10th Division shows something different, and I think the larger kanji symbols are for his name. Can you guys clarify this for me please? Thanks in advance. Arrancar109 (Talk)  23:55, August 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * Assuming that the tiny kanji, directly above the big kanji taking up most of the picture, is 名前, meaning name, then the big kanji directly beneath it would be the kanji making up the dude's name.
 * Plus, you know Japanese writing conventions; up to down, and when it comes to names, it's always family name first. The katakana to the left of the big kanji reads ユシマ オウコ, or Yushima Ōko, so I'm pretty sure that the Anglicization (so to speak) would read "Ōko Yushima." --Reikson (talk) 01:16, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * Reikson is right re: the common Japanese way of writing top to bottom, left to right, and them almost always (esp. with native names) writing said names in the order "family name - personal name".


 * Yes, it seems the Kanji for his name as they are in his article-at-present are completely wrong: from the pic, they're rendered 由嶌欧許 Yushima Ōko ("Ōko Yushima" in Western name order), not 湯島桜花 (although the Kanji 嶌 used seems to be an older/rarer form of 島, at least).


 * As to how this much error in Kanji occurred, it seems most likely that whoever furnished 湯島桜花 went on a "sound-alike hunt", typing in the Rōmaji "yu", "shima", and "ōko" to see what came up. We're lucky, in this case, that the show eventually gave us the Kanji, since normally non-canon, anime-only characters and terms remain uncertain (excluding the odd Japanese Wiki or such reference) precisely because they're anime-only and, thus, have no appearances in the raw manga from which we could normally take the information. :) Adam Restling (talk) 19:29, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Volume 50 Poem
Could anyone help me translate this please?

From Ichimaru-TsangHay Jing Tsang (talk) 15:13, June 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * This is a link to one person's translation. I decided to investigate it for myself too, though.


 * My version:


 * "Time always goading from behind,


 * raising a growl before one's eyes, is wholly washed away.


 * Let halt your steps!


 * Time shall wash you away to the beautiful past, and how it shall pare the fangs.


 * Don't look ahead!


 * Your hope approaches to the rear


 * only within a dark, turbid stream."

For further data on my translation, as well as background to help enrich your own conclusions, see here. Adam Restling (talk) 06:28, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Bleach Bleach Official Character Book 2 MASKED Poem
Could anyone help me translate this please? From Ichimaru-TsangHay Jing Tsang (talk) 14:52, June 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * "The things hidden are


 * weakness and truth.


 * The thing lost is


 * eternal rest."

Adam Restling (talk) 07:04, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Adam. 11:17, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Senjū Kōten Taihō
A user placed the below as the kanji and romaji for Senju Koten Taiho's incantation. Can we have a confirmation?--

"(千手の涯, 届かざる闇の御手, 映らざる天の射手! 光を落とす道, 火種を煽る風! 集い手惑うな, 我が指を見よ! 光弾・八身・九条・天経・症宝・大輪・灰色の砲塔! 弓引く彼方, 皎皎どして消ゆ!, Senjuu no hate, todokazaru yami no mite, utsurazaru ten no ite! Hikari wo otozu michi, hidane wo aoru kaze! Tsudoi temadou na, waga yubi wo miyo! Koudan, hasshin, kujou, tenkei, shippou, dairin, haiironohoutou! Yumihiku kanata, koukou toshite kiyu!) "


 * Sounds all well and good... --Reikson (talk) 00:28, May 13, 2011 (UTC)

Technique Names
I was holding off posting this so as not to flood the corner with too much stuff, but I'm posting it now so I don't forget about it altogether. Apologies for the deluge. In the "Special Program" section of UNMASKED, there are a number of pages listing technique names dating back to the start of the story (pictures 5-12 above). Take your time with this. There's a lot of stuff there, so no rush. 10:22, June 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * I showed spanish speaking friend a scan of the first page from picture 5 from unmasked. She translated palma plancha as "iron palm", hierro virgen as "iron virgin", jaula tentaculo as "tentacle cage", la helice as "the propeller" she didn't feel comfortable giving a translation for lanza tentaculo, and lengua tronco. Likely because we'd started doing shots by then.Licourtrix (talk) 11:20, June 13, 2011 (UTC)


 * Can someone confirm these? Mad Rest 11:19, July 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll try to confirm these--and seek out *dem* precious underlying Kanji for the techniques--very soon. My summer vacation is almost here :) :) :) !


 * And you're almost surely right in your suggestions re: some of the romanizations, e.g. how der should prob. be del... of course, most of these compounds are grammatically incorrect as Kubo usu. is... this also, I believe, happened in MASKED when Zommari's technique was romanized Amore (Italian for "love") rather than Amor (the Spanish form).


 * P.S. Hope you don't mind, but I removed some of the massive blank space between the above post's two paragraphs, since the list of names is already pretty long. :) Adam Restling (talk) 11:34, July 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * First lot of work is here. Adam Restling (talk) 21:28, July 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Finished (though could require further revision, or enhancement with links etc. in the future) work through "Techniques 8" is now here. Adam Restling (talk) 04:53, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Bringer Light translation
Excuse me, but I was reading the Fullbring Article, I cannot seem to find the kanji or katakana for Bringer Light, and if I were to get it wrong, it would be undone. What did the raw manga call "Bringer Light" accurately? Dekoshu talk contrib 03:15, July 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * In case anyone was still wondering/had missed it, someone has added these to the page now. Adam Restling (talk) 23:22, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Ulquiorra's Past & Harribel's Fate
Okay, here's what she gave me for Ulquiorra. The -- indicate seperate panels

The one about Harribel is significantly longer so she's giving that to me tommorrow.

Here are the translations for Harribel's story. She said it would take her a while to give me exact page by page translations because of all the Bleach words that are used in Kanji, but she'd give me the most important things from the translation today.

That's what she gave me so far.

Note: In the Harribel section, Raikoben forgot to copy my link. "His name is Kukkapūro (クッカプーロ）"; "His" refers to Him. JapaneseOPfan  :: Talk    04:19, July 28, 2011 (UTC)

Shunsui Kyōraku - Takaoni
I have no Idea where this will end up as I am new but anyway,

Basically I have noticed that the page on Shunsui Kyouraku has his technique Takaoni down as meaning Mountain Demon, however I'm pretty sure Taka means hawk- The kanji used on the page " 嶄鬼 " read in japanese as Sanoni. San being mountain. But we know that the actual technique is called TAKAoni.

Hawk = Taka = 鷹

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks


 * The Kanji (according to the Japanese Wiki, too) are 嶄鬼, which would prob. be better translated (thinking on it) as "high/height oni/demon"; while 嶄 generally means "steep (mountain)", it's also sometimes used as a synonym for taka(i) "high". Since Kubo uses the reading taka in Takaoni, rather than the more usu. zan/san, the intended meaning of "high/height" seems even more likely (not to mention that victory in its "game" involves being the one in the highest place or whatever).


 * On the taka as in "hawk" (鷹) point, you must take great care with sound-alikes in Japanese, esp. with someone who likes to use special readings and associations, as does Kubo. The plethora of homophones is one reason why efforts to abandon use of the complex Kanji are stymied: too many words sound alike to abandon the ideograms/logograms whose written shapes differentiate them. Adam Restling (talk) 04:46, August 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for clearing this up. I had presumed it might be a synonym. Whether it's relevant or not I kind of like the idea of the "Hawk demon" due to the fact that hawks ( more speecifically falcons) fly extremely high up. The way we saw Captain Kyouraku execute the move appears to me like a falcon preparing for a dive. I love languages and am glad that I got a valid response. I learned something. My computer cannot read symbols properly, so I take it the kanji are drastically different. This is a mistake on my behalf. If there is anything I can do on the wiki, just let me know. Anaserfrdrews (talk) 23:42, August 19, 2011 (UTC)

Harribel's Fate Translated FULL
Sorry for the delay; had personal problems. I finally got a full day open today, and got a chance to finish this so here it is.

That's all I've got for now. If you find any errors, I apologize; I was in a hurry and didn't really get a chance to check my work over. JapaneseOPfan <font color="#FFFFFF"> :: <font color="#109DE3"> Talk  <font color="#FFFFFF">  03:01, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sure I don't speak alone when I say thanks for all your efforts :). Adam Restling (talk) 00:42, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Hadou #88

 * Shouldn't it be Hiryūgekizokushintenraihō, not Hiryugekizokushintenraiho, because that is the current title on its page and the Kidou list.
 * Master D (talk) 18:02, March 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * MadRest has also cited this recently, but you're both correct: it should have those long vowels. Adam Restling (talk) 02:52, August 8, 2011 (UTC)

Wisdom King and Vidyaraja connection
I did some more research on the subject and I was wondering what's the connection between the words "Wisdom King" and "Vidyaraja"?

As far as I understand:

Japanese to English: Myouou -> Wisdom King

Japanese to Sanskrit: Myouou -> Vidyaraja

Then: Wisdom King -> Vidyaraja

Now what I was wondering was where's the connection between the two words coming from? Xcetron (talk) 17:56, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

This has already been discussed, if it has no importance on the translation which is has been determined not to by are translators then there is no point to address this. This site is for bleach information, learning anything beyond that is not the job of the site nor is wasting the time of translators who have enough site related work to do.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  19:32, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

I want to know the reason behind the change from "Wisdom King" to "Vidyaraja". That's why I am asking where's the connection between the two words, that is the English and Sanskrit words, "Wisdom King" and "Vidyaraja" respectively. Xcetron (talk) 07:24, November 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't understand these questions, since as Salubri mentions above, we've already discussed these things, at some length, with you, here and here. To summarize quickly: vidyaraja (from the Sanskrit for "wisdom, enlightenment" [vidya-] & "king" [raja-]) was one of the Indic spiritual terms borrowed into Chinese and then Japanese from Sanskrit as mingwang and myouou (ming, myou "enlightenment" + wang, ou "king") respectively, of similar meaning. Any of these three, in English sources, is thus typically glossed as "wisdom/enlightenment king", but vidyaraja should be noted as the original source, and conveys its Indic nuance.


 * Thus, the same way we don't "translate" things like Kaname Tousen into Mr. "Keystone Eastsage", or Ichigo into Mr. "Oneguard", I rendered myouou as "vidyaraja", because myouou itself is the translation, and I thought using the original reference was the way to go. It gets back to the root, and all its nuanced meaning, from which all the other translations derived. But, of course, we still write Kokujou Tengen Myouou as its name, and save this deeper meaning (including "vidyaraja") for the gloss/explanation of its meaning. Adam Restling (talk) 10:43, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I think I kind of get it, correct me if I am wrong. To shorten you used:

Sanskrit:

Wisdom -> Vidya

King -> Raja

So it's:

Myou -> Wisdom -> Vidya

Ou -> King -> Raja

In other words, you translated in the following order:

Japanese -> English -> Sanskrit

So it's one word instead of two? Xcetron (talk) 23:40, December 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah. It's generally spelt as a single word, a compound (like English doorman etc.), even if we usually use, in our English complete, literal translation the two word "wisdom king", instead of *"wisdomking".


 * And yes: the original word in myth was vidyaraja ("wisdom king"), borrowed and translated into Chinese as mingwang and Japanese as myouou ("enlightenment/wisdom king"). Since Komamura speaks Japanese, we keep the Myouou in the name of the Bankai, but translate it (in our explanatory gloss) with the original term vidyaraja that myouou was created to refer to in the first place. Adam Restling (talk) 15:13, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I think I understand now. Thanks for the explanation. But how about we include the actual translation in English too, that is "Wisdom King of Black Ropes Divine Punishment". This way we explain the translation more thoroughly and the subject is more clear from where the Sanskrit translation is translated from. Xcetron (talk) 01:32, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thats not really Adam's call that would be an Admin call. It was decided to go with the translation Adam origianlly went. Simply putting Wisdom King isnt enough to carry any understanding of what a Wisdom King is. Hence why Vidyaraja was supported, you look it up and then have a better cultural understanding. Anything else additional would be watered down and taking up space. Thus why I would say no to it. --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  01:36, December 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * It's just as Salubri says. The most *I* would do is to embed a link to the cultural referent, as do most Wikis. For example, something like this in the article:


 * "Tenken's Bankai, Kokujō Tengen Myōō (黒縄天譴明王 Vidyaraja of Kalasutra's Heavenly Punishment) ..."


 * so it's easier for users to look-up--indeed, it directly links--to the reference. Adam Restling (talk) 06:12, December 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I think that would help someone wondering where the Sanskrit translation is translated from. Additionally how about we replace "Viz "Divine Retribution, Black Ropes of Ruination"" with "Viz "Divine Punishment, Wisdom King of Black Ropes"" since it's more accurate. Xcetron (talk) 02:37, December 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * We do not make up the Viz translations. Viz translates all things themselves, we just list what they have.--

But isn't that translation more accurate? That's the point I am trying to make. I think we have to put the actual English translation somewhere so people don't get confused with the Sanskrit translation. Xcetron (talk) 02:51, December 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * As has been said to you multiple times already. It was chosen to go with Vidyaraja so that the whole context could be understood. This was the decision we made, this is the decision we will be keeping with.--

I didn't said to replace the Sanskrit translation. I said to put the actual English translation somewhere so people don't get confused with the Sanskrit translation. About the Viz translation, I said "Divine Punishment, Wisdom King of Black Ropes" is more accurate than "Divine Retribution, Black Ropes of Ruination". Xcetron (talk) 03:04, December 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * And again, we are not Viz, Viz is the official English Publisher of Bleach. They are the ones that put out the American volumes. They translate their own material. We simply note it. If we were to change it, it would no longer be the Viz translation. And once again, I have to tell you that we are sticking with Vidyaraja and not placing Wisdom King in there. If you want to know what Vidyaraja is, look it up as placing Wisdom King will also get just as many questions. There is a reason we did not place Wisdom King on the article and that is so people look up Vidyaraja so that they get a true understanding of what it is and what it means.--

So Viz is an offical translation? I didn't know that. I didn't said to not stick with Vidyaraja. I said to put the actual English translation somewhere so people don't get confused with the Sanskrit translation. Maybe in quotes pointing it's the translation from Japanese to English. Xcetron (talk) 03:20, December 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Please read my comments above.--

Well, how about we put this somewhere then:

Komamura's Bankai translated from Japanese to English is: "Wisdom King of Black Ropes Divine Punishment". Xcetron (talk) 03:30, December 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think this should just be dropped (as God suggests), esp. since we've spent like 10 pages of text discussing this issue that was explained thoroughly already. We're not going to write "circle/vulture-falcon" just 'cause we're afraid that someone doesn't automatically know we mean "gyrfalcon". Vidyaraja is the cited term, no matter what its completely translated English meaning is, because this is what myouou refers to. Like any new or obscure word, which do occur even in one's own language, people should look it up/follow the link if they're curious. Plus, to do what it sounds like you're suggesting, we'd end up with multiple translations, e.g. "Kokujou Tengen Myōō (黒縄天譴明王 Vidyaraja of Kalasutra's Heavenly Punishment, which ITSELF means wisdom king of black thread's heavenly punishment)..."--and this ain't good.
 * Sorry for this last text; I tried to keep it brief. :) Adam Restling (talk) 12:22, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

But if you are making it confusing shouldn't you at least explain it? I mean come on you are not going to include the ACTUAL ENGLISH TRANSLATION in the BLEACH ENGLISH WIKIA? At least put it somewhere, because most if not PRACTICALLY ALL people will be looking for the ENGLISH TRANSLATION, because this is an ENGLISH WIKIA. That's like putting a CHINESE TRANSLATION in a JAPANESE PAGE but without putting the JAPANESE TRANSLATION. So what do we en up with? A SANSKRIT TRANSLATION with a nowhere to be found ENGLISH TRANSLATION in an ENGLISH WIKIA. Even though I am asking you to put the ENGLISH TRANSLATION, you still refuse even though this is an ENGLISH WIKIA. So please, could you put it SOMEWHERE so it doesn't end up looking like you do a SANSKRIT TRANSLATION but refuse to do an ENGLISH TRANSLATION. Xcetron (talk) 02:39, December 11, 2011 (UTC)


 * Xcetron, for the last time, we are doing this for a reason. You continue to refuse to read what we are saying. As such, there is no need to continue this line of conversation. I am closing this discussion. Please do not edit it.--

Hikotsu Taihō romanization
Hey, I've noticed that Renji's "ultimate" bankai attack "狒骨大砲" is romanised as "Hikōtsu Taihō" in Renji's article. This is wrong. First, コウツ is not a valid reading of the kanji 骨, and second: the manga begs to differ. In chapter 210, the furigana read ひこつたいほう, so the correct romanisation would be "Hikotsu Taihō". The macron is wrong, that's all, but I still wanted to bring it up here before I changed it in the article.Mapar007 (talk) 22:53, December 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, looks like that got missed. You're right: 骨 "bone" is kotsu here (with simple o). Sometimes, it gets hard to keep track of all the Kanji and diacritics. :) Adam Restling (talk) 04:29, December 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks! I went ahead and edited the article. Mapar007 (talk) 15:14, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

Yukio Full name
Yukio's full name is given in volume 53. I'd like to confirm if the correct name order for Yukio is Yukio Hans Vorarlberna or Hans Vorarlberna Yukio. Thanks 22:59, December 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks like the latter, if the Japanese convention of "family name first" still applies... --Reikson (talk) 00:53, December 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not claiming to be an expert translator, but it seems that in cases of western names appearing in manga and anime series in general (not just Bleach), they seem to stick to the "first name first" usage. And although Yukio is an unusual case for most characters in this (given what the volume page shows us), I believe his first name is "Yukio", since on Page 8 of Chapter 471, Yukio's father does call him "Yukio". <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  01:02, December 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * I hope I'm not overstepping by offering my two cents... But having a Japanese surname with European first and middle names doesn't really make sense; there are laws in Japan concerning both given and family names, one being that children may only have their given names comprised from kanji that exist on a government-regulated list (see the Wikipedia article on Japanese names under the Regulation section). It would make more sense if Yukio's parents were of European descent and he was born in Japan, which would make "Hans" his middle name (middle names not being common in Japanese culture, thus another reason I don't quite thing "Yukio" is is surname) and "Vorarlberna" being his last. Of course, this is me trying to impose real-world laws on Kubo's world, so... ^.^' .Seshat. (talk) 01:20, December 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * I would have to agree in this situation with Seshat. Yukio is a Japanese first name. which would mean that Hans is the middle. Making Vorarlberna The last name. Yukio is japanese, Hans is germanic/scandinavian and Vorarlbena seems to be a variation of the german word Vorarlberg, a state of Austria. Stans to reason he has European ancestry.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  02:41, December 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, Hans and Voralberna are clearly German/Austrian. From what we have seen, every character including his own parents have called him Yukio. It makes the most sense if his first name is Yukio. Though I am not too sure on the middle name. Yes, Hans could be a middle name but its common in German last names for the name to be two parts such as Hans Vorarlberna. That would be what should be looked into--

Hey Sal I noticed that too about Voralberg (actually just answered a question on answers about this), and not to get off topic, but the European name, not to mention the European features such as the eyes and the hair and the face overall looks very european. At this point it would be rather safe to say Yukio has some European ethnicity. I don't know about the romanji pronunciation, but the english pronunciation for his last name should be fohr-ahrl-ber-na. Not sure if this is helpful, but I just thought I would add this. --Lemursrule (talk) 02:53, December 6, 2011 (UTC)

Not sure if this place would provide any help or not, but it does seem to have a few pages of explanation on surnames with Nordic backgrounds... And, since German and Austrian naming rules are so similar, you can also look here. .Seshat. (talk) 03:08, December 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you guys are right: "Yukio" is almost certainly his first/given name. When combining Western and Japanese names, the trend is to put them in the traditional Western "given name-(middle name-first surname-)surname" order. Besides, "Yukio" seems more like a first name, and one of you said it was what his father called him, so it would make the most sense. Although barring that, I suppose "Hans Vorarlberna Yukio" (similar to Souryuu Asuka Rangurē "Asuka Langley Soryu") would be possible, if far LESS likely. Adam Restling (talk) 10:58, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

I renamed the article, but there's still something that concerns me. The characters we have written for Yukio were "雪緒" before the change, but it was written as "雪绪" after the change on the article. Can you also confirm if one character is correct or if both are wrong? <font color="teal" size="2px">Arrancar109 <font color="teal" size="1px">(Talk)  19:47, December 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * The correct version is the one using "緒" (i.e., the first one used in the post above, "before the change"); "绪" is the simplified Chinese version, wherein the left radical "糹" has been simplified to "纟" instead, and is not used in the Japanese. Adam Restling (talk) 15:20, December 8, 2011 (UTC)

Jōmon Spells
I want confirmation on the romanizations of Ryubi no Jōmon, Koko no Jōmon, Hoyoku no Jōmon, Kikai no Jōmon and Shiji no Saimon. They're supposed to be Ryūbi no Jōmon, Kokō no Jōmon, Hōyoku no Jōmon, Kigai no Jōmon and Shijū Saimon, respectively.

http://www.manga-access.com/manga/B/Bleach/chapter/369/10 http://www.manga-access.com/manga/B/Bleach/chapter/369/15 http://www.manga-access.com/manga/B/Bleach/chapter/369/16 http://www.mangareader.net/94-22828-18/bleach/chapter-369.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-22828-11/bleach/chapter-369.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-22828-16/bleach/chapter-369.html http://www.mangareader.net/94-22828-17/bleach/chapter-369.html

They're the same by two different translators, except for Shijū Saimon, but they say Shijū Saimon in the anime as well. <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 21:17, July 30, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll try to get on this soon, as well as continuing, esp., the UNMASKED stuff. But it looks like the second of the romanizations that Mad cites are prob. the correct ones, as the first set excludes a few of the long vowels from its transcriptions. The names are clearly inspired by the Four Forms, who are often also called, in Japanese, the "Four Beasts" (Shijuu) or the "Saint Beasts" (Seijuu). Adam Restling (talk) 05:50, August 1, 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Shijū Saimon (四獣塞門 Four Beast Ward Gate) consists of Ryūbi no Jōmon (竜尾の城門 Castle Gate of the Dragon's Tail) in front of the enemy, Kokō no Jōmon (虎咬の城門 Castle Gate of the Tiger's Bite) on the left, Kigai no Jōmon (亀鎧の城門 Castle Gate of the Turtle's Armor) on the right, and Hōyoku no Jōmon (鳳翼の城門 Castle Gate of the Phoenix's Wings) below. Adam Restling (talk) 04:32, September 19, 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Kidō
I am under the impression that Bakudō #81 should be Dankū instead of Dankū, because the kanji 空, meaning 'space, void' is read as kuu and not ku. The same kanji is used in Kūkanten'i (空間転位), meaning Spatial Displacement and there it is listed as kū. Also, the same is for Hiryugekizokushintenraiho (撃賊震天雷砲); it should be Hiryūgekizokushintenraihō. <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 23:00, August 6, 2011 (UTC)


 * You're correct: kuu (or, in the Hepburn system used on by this Wiki, kū) it is.


 * Also (and I'm finishing up checking these in the "Techniques" 6-8 UNMASKED pages), the Kanji for Hiryū Gekizoku Shinten Raihō (as you corrected, not hiry u ) is missing its hiryū; it should be 飛竜 撃賊震天雷砲, I believe. Adam Restling (talk) 02:37, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * The kanji were one line down. I missed those two when I was copying it. <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 20:47, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Also, will it be the same or different if the words in Hiryū Gekizoku Shinten Raihō are separated or conjoined (Hiryūgekizokushintenraihō)? <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 20:48, August 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * I suppose. Creating word boundaries for Japanese forms is often tricky, but I'd prefer doing it to having single "words" that are 30 letters long. I usu. try to make boundaries where it seems most natural, e.g. after compounds. Adam Restling (talk) 08:16, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure it's the same as with Sajo Sabaku (鎖条鎖縛); Should it be Sajō Sabaku?
 * Also with Enkosen (円閘扇); Should it be Enkōsen? Also, when I checked the kanji for it on Tangorin it gave me the translations as Round Lock Fan, which is drastically different than the current translation, Arc Shield.
 * And with Kyokko (曲光), should it be Kyokkō or Kyokukō? <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 12:43, August 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * That's prob. true, but I don't want to confirm anything until I have a chance to double-check each of these terms. A quick check of common Japanese usages of these Kanji would seem to show that they are: Sajō Sabaku, Enkōsen, Kyokkō. And if those Kanji are the correct ones, then the correct translation is "round lock fan". Adam Restling (talk) 08:16, August 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * In case anyone missed these recent developments, cf. my work on the UNMASKED "Techniques" sections dealing with Kidou here, as they should now hold answers to the above queries. :) Adam Restling (talk) 19:38, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Japanese translations for Spanish words
Can you please explain how Spanish words have different translations in Japanese?

like this one

Murciélago (黒翼大魔 (ムルシエラゴ), Murushierago; Spanish for "Bat", Japanese for "Black-Winged Great Demon") --Kisukeiscool100396 (talk) 21:49, September 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll take this one; Kubo's assigning a pseudo-translation to the Spanish word. We both know that Murciélago is Spanish for "bat," but the way he wrote the scene is that the kanji is 黒翼大魔, but as opposed to its actual pronunciation, which would be something like "kokuyoku daima" which would have the hiragana of こくよくだいま, Kubo instead slapped the katakana of the Spanish word Murciélago onto it.
 * This means that while the name translates as "Black-Winged Great Demon" in this context, it's meant to be pronounced in the Japanese transliteration of the Spanish word for "bat;" as Murushierago.
 * Kubo knows that the words don't match; it's not what matters here. The Spanish-based names is to correlate with the Spanish-based nomenclature of everything related to Hollows. The kanji indicate what the name is supposed to mean in the context of the BLEACH-verse. --Reikson (talk) 22:05, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

In other words, the Spanish is simply to fall into account with the nature of Hollows, while the Japanese kanji reveal the meaning assigned to these foreign-language words. --Reikson (talk) 22:05, September 9, 2011 (UTC)

I was always wondering how that worked and now I know! Thanks--Kisukeiscool100396 (talk) 22:49, September 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, like Reikson says, it's mostly Kubo's way of layering extra nuances of meaning into names, so it's not just a single meaning; e.g., in the above example, the meanings of simple "bat" and "great, black-winged devil", are both evoked via this layering in the mind of the resder.


 * Slayers does this, too, as in the naming of the Supreme Being of its cosmology, the Lord of Nightmares (金色の魔王（ロード・オブ・ナイトメア） Rōdo obu Naitomea), the Kanji of whose name mean "gold-colored devil king". Adam Restling (talk) 08:12, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Digital Radial Invaders
I found the Kanji for Digital Radial Invaders can somebody please translate it? Here is the raw so you can see the Kanji so you don't think I'm lying.--Kisukeiscool100396 (talk) 20:59, September 12, 2011 (UTC) http://mangahead.com/index.php/Manga-Raw-Scan/Bleach/Bleach-463-Raw-Scan/12.jpg?action=big&size=original&fromthumbnail=true

画面外の侵略者 （デジタル・ラジアル・インヴェイダーズ）


 * Apparently, the symbols means something like "Invaders from Outside of the Scene" and reads as Dejitaru Rajiaru Inveidāzu. --Reikson (talk) 21:18, September 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * Plus, your thumbnail link isn't working. --Reikson (talk) 21:19, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

So can I add it to Yukio's page? Also try this link.--Kisukeiscool100396 (talk) 21:32, September 12, 2011 (UTC)

http://s1.mangahead.com/mangas/Manga-Raw-Scan/Bleach/Bleach-463-Raw-Scan/12.jpg


 * Let the experts decide what's what with that translation. I just gave you an uneducated guess through the help of online translators. --Reikson (talk) 22:46, September 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * The Kanji and katakana look like they match to the raw pic. 画面外の侵略者 seems to (be intended to) mean something close to "beyond-screen invaders", or "invaders (from) outside the screen"; 画面 is used to refer to a TV, video game or computer screen, or the image therein. Adam Restling (talk) 08:03, September 13, 2011 (UTC)

Sumitsukigasa's technique
Hi. Is there a record of kanji and rōmaji, and translation of two Yushima's attacks? Namely Hajokuri and Renzan: Hajokuri. Thanks in advance. 15:40, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * The word "Renzan" suggests 連斬, meaning "serial beheading," but unless you can find kanji, this is merely supposition... --Reikson (talk) 15:44, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * According to the Japanese Wiki (which luckily has updated this far), it's Hajō Kūri (覇錠空蔾 Tyrant Lock Void Bramble) and Renzan - Hajō Kūri (連斬 覇錠空蔾), where renzan is indeed "serial-slashing" + the same Hajō Kūri (I use "slashing" instead of "beheading" because this is the semantic broadening ["behead" > "slay/strive with sword"] the element seems to enjoy in use, at least in BLEACH [like in  Zan pakutō,  Zan getsu, I believe]). The Kanji 蔾 seems to be pretty rare--none of my usu. sources even gave it a Japanese reading--but is translated as "a kind of bramble", and seems especially applied to Chenopodiaceae (Goosefoot).


 * FYI: The current Kanji for Sumitsukigasa (man, those filler dudes love their long names sometimes) and its release call are wrong, according to the Japanese Wiki: they should be 墨月暈 (Ink Moon Halo -- that is a *purdy* cool name; the current Kanji were half-right, though) and tagire (滾れ), which *does* still mean "seethe".


 * One more thing: the Kanji for Raikū are 來空 "coming void". Adam Restling (talk) 09:15, October 5, 2011 (UTC)

Has anyone made the required changes to the Yushima and Inaba pages yet? --Reikson (talk) 02:03, November 19, 2011 (UTC)

Kidō Kanji Verification
Hi, I checked the images of the UNMASKED Character Book you uploaded (Techniques 7) and I noticed several differences between the kanji in the character book and those on the Kidō page.

1. Tsuzuri Raiden: 綴雷電 in the character book, 製本電 on the Kidō page. The only correct kanji is 電 (lightning) and I don't know how they came up with 製 (manufacture) and 本 (origin/book).

2. Sōren Sōkatsui: 双漣蒼火墜 in the character book, 双蓮蒼火墜 on the Kidō page. The kanji for "ren" differ: 漣 (ripple) in the databook and 蓮 (lotus) on the Kidō page.

3. Hiryūgekizokushintenraihō: 飛竜撃賊震天雷炮 in the character book, 飛竜撃賊震天雷砲 on the Kidō page. The kanji for "hō" differ: 炮 (sear) in the databook and 砲 (cannon) on the Kidō page.

I suggest you change them. DarkblueFlow (talk) 15:36, October 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * You are in face correct and the translations have been changed.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  16:25, October 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * There are a lot of Kidō that this site has mistranslated. I've been pointing this out for months. It's not the data books that are wrong, it's this site's information. <font color="silver" size="2px">Mad <font color="gold" size="2px">Rest 16:06, October 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * We have also told you we are not native Japanese speakers and therefore we cant account for the accent marks when we dont have the english translations. The proven translators have a hard enough time translating the material and when they find the issue they make sure it is fixed. Whining that you dont get your way immediately especially with no proof is not gonna help your situation.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  16:25, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

Deadly Darts
デッドリ・ダーツ DeddorI Dātsu

It seems the kanji and the pronunciation for this technique which I found on this page is incorrect.

The kanji should be "デッドリー・ダーツ", with an additional "ー", as shown in the UNMASKED (the lower right portion of the scan).

As for its pronunciation, "DeddorI" should end with a small long "I" ("ī"), not with a capital "I".

I need a confirmation that my claim is true. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   22:56, November 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, you're correct. Sorry about that. I did a lot of those in a marathon session that resulted in my PC acting all sluggish from juggling browser windows and my text documents, so although I thought I'd corrected it all, looks I missed (at least) this one. Plus, I missed changing the capital I (which I used as a place-holder) with the character I meant to insert to replace it, ī (as you mentioned).


 * Thus, it should be as Goblin says: デッドリー・ダーツ Deddorī Dātsu. Thanks for the correction :). I'm glad there are those who can proofread my work when technical difficulties may've let me miss these things. Adam Restling (talk) 09:54, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Volume 53's poem

 * 僕がこんなにも若く
 * こんなにも未熟であるということが
 * 老いさらばえ
 * 完全無欠である大人達には
 * どうにも許し難いことのようなのだ

Poem from volume 53 - can we get a translation of this please. 15:08, December 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * My crack at it:


 * It seems that I, even this young,
 * even being this inexperienced,
 * have grown withered by age
 * As for the adults, being completely flawless,
 * such is like a thing impossible to forgive.


 * For more in-depth analysis--as well as to decide for yourself how accurate you think I might be--please see here :).


 * Note: the "such" in my trans.' last line refers to the first, and should be read as "for the adults [...] such [a thing as being young and inexperienced] is like a thing impossible to forgive". Adam Restling (talk) 09:15, December 7, 2011 (UTC)

Naruki City
I think I've found the kanji for Naruki City on a page of this week's omake. However, I could only identify two characters. It would be great if somebody could make out the missing one. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk  23:42, January 29, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I think this could be the first kanji "鳴" Which stands for "cry, sound, chirp" or something like that. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  01:00, January 30, 2012 (UTC)


 * Lia is right: the naru in Naruki City is 鳴 "(re)sound, ring, echo", giving a total meaning of "resounding/echoing tree/woods city". Very chic in its poesy ;).


 * Totally unrelated: I still think it's cool how Karakura means "empty/vacant seat"--always makes me think about Aizen mentioning that the throne of heaven is similarly void... or waa it just awesome foreshadowing... ??? XD Adam Restling (talk) 05:08, January 31, 2012 (UTC)