Talk:Zanpakutō

First thing that is wrong that I noticed was you said that Grand Fisher's ressreccion was different, I have to dispute you in that respect, Isshin Kurosaki killed him before he could even release his zanpakuto. What you were referring to was his state as an arrancar, proving that he was not a very high level menos class arrancar due to his horribly disfigured inhuman form. AS for Ichigo's blade though it appears as a melee (or normal) class zanpakutou, that is not the case. Normal class zanpakutous cannot use attacks such as Getsuga Tenshou. In truth Zangetsu is actually a kidou class blade, but Ichigo really hasn't had the time to explore Zangetsu's full potential. AS shown when he first fought Gochii/Shirosaki/Ogichi (Hollow Ichigo), who technically is Zangetsu himself. Abrarai Renji did achieve bankai in the so called three days but he'd been training towards it for years in order to surpass Kuchiki Byakuya. there is no real telling how long he has been able to use materialization. because he said, "I have mastered materialization" implying that he was training towards it for some time. True the zanpakutou that cannot return to normal does have a great deal to do with the amount of the character's reiatsu but it depends more on their ability to control they're own reiatsu. Ichigo has come along way in that respect but it is doubtful that he will be able to return Zangetsu to a dormant state until he recieves proper training that isn't rushed. Zaraki on the other hand is less in control but maintains some level of it, but the fact is he got so powerful so fast that he cannot communicate with his zanpakutou. I stress the fact of control because Aizen Sosuke has alot more reiatsu than Ichigo does but he has a very concsiderable amount of control. He is at such a level of power that he can bring all of the Espada to their knees simply by letting it out. And yet his zanpakutou remain in a dormant state until he calls it out. Sorry to rant but I figured it was better to have the real info than errors as such.

the ultimate BLEACHer
 * rawr wall of incoherent text crit

Zangetsu was stated to be melee-type; Getsuga Tensho is a melee-like ability, not a kido-based one. Ichigo is shit at Kido. Go away and next time when you ramble like this make it coherent.

Bankai
Despite what Byakuya Kuchiki said it seems that being able to use Bankai does not take hundreds of years. For example Renji became a Shinigami around the same time as Rukia roughly 50 years before the start of the series and he was just finishing his training. Gin and Byakuya both seemed to be just begining their training as well during the 110 years ago arc and both became captains around the same time. In a flash back when Rukia was assigned a squad Byakuya was a captain so his training couldn't have taken more than 50-60 years either. I think Ikkaku did about the same but it's hard to tell when he started but either way it seems atleast three Shinigami got their Bankai in under 100 years. (Ignoring those who used training aides to do it in three days)

Byakuya was referring to the length of time required for one to master the use of their bankai, not really how long it takes to get it. Renji is younger then Byakuya but he gained it by constant training and a connection to his zanpakuto, but notice how because of the lack of experience in wielding it (especially with its size) he was of little threat to byakuya (which he explains during the fight). Byakuya and Gin are exceptions. Byakuya was obviously training hard from when he was younger so the effort toward experience is being made and he obviously had years to perfect it, not to mention he has higher capability as he is a noble. Gin is a prodigy having graduated in a year, he was already skilled enough to kill the 3rd seat of the 5th seat, it stands to reason he was skilled enough to achieve bankai at a early age, and just like byakuya he had years to perfect it. Ikkaku has been fighting constantly for years it only makes sense that his connection with zanpakuto would lead him to achieving bankai. So yes some have achieved their bankai in under 100 yrs, but thats not the issue its that its mastery takes up to 100 years. Renji and Ikkaku haven't gained the full advantage of having mastery of the abilities and skills of their zanpakuto in bankai. Its like learning as you go, thats basically what Byakuya meant. Even though Renji has his bankai he is still learning how to use it. Even Ikkaku is the same situation and Ichigo as well he uses his often but its only through fighting he is learning what it is capable of. by time they fully understand their abilities it may take up to 100 yrs or less. Salubri 15:24, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Kenpachi Zaraki
In Forms>Shikai, it is stated that Zaraki is incapable of Shikai, however in Types it is stated that his sword is in a constant Shikai state. Which is correct? Vaizard 05:24, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * From the information in both the anime he's Zanpakutō is a constant release and he does not know the name of it what it has been stated is that he is incapable of Bankai WhiteStrike 21:13, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

"Achievement of the shikai is a mark of control of a zanpakutō, and it appears to be a requirement for advancement within the Shinigami ranks, as most (with the notable exception of Kenpachi Zaraki) seated officers and presumably all lieutenants are capable of shikai." It says Zaraki is incapable of Shikai. Vaizard 05:50, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * After reading the paragraph I re-wrote some of the info on Zaraki and his Shikai as to make it more understandable WhiteStrike 18:51, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Arrancar and Shinigami
Perhaps an idea would be to create a seperate section for arrancar and shinigami. On the page we get tonnes of info about Shinigami Zanpakutō, yet only a ressurection section for Arrancar. Just need to know if this is a good idea. Chrono D. 07:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The problem is that there doesn't seem to be much to add that isn't already in the Resurreccion section. There aren't a lot of sub-divisons of Arrancar release states because they are all basically just variations of the same thing--the Arrancar's original Hollow powers. Any details about individual Zanpakutou are explained in the respective characters' pages.


 * But feel free to prove me wrong; it's not a bad idea at all. LapisScarab 18:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Zanjutsu
Zanjutsu does not exactly mean "swordsmanship," though it is correct in a way. Kenjutsu (literally meaning blade technique) is a more correct term for that. It's a bit difficult for me to describe zanjutsu in a word or two, but think of it like the connection the shinigami/soul reaper (however you want to call them) to the spiritual entity within their zanpakutou and their combined ability to fight together.

Recall the moment early on in Bleach when Ichigo and Zangetsu combined their might against Kenpachi, right before the end of the duel. That is the most visual display of what I'm talking about. --Lavi (talk) 22:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I already put Expert and Master Swordsmanship Specialist under Zanjutsu--- and I'm going to edit them right now.--Renji Abarai 08:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Dual Bladed
I don't think Shuhei's belongs in this category. Shouldn't only Shikai's with two handheld blades go here? Maggosh 17:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

He has a dual blade kusarigama. As you should know Zanpakuto is not limited to be just simple swords. Last checked there was two of them, they have separate handles. Salubri 17:13, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Huh. Sorry, didn't see it; the right side was cut off. Maggosh 17:14, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, then we may also have to put down Ikkaku' Bankai here. User:Elementite 6:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ikkaku doesn't have two separate blades in shikai so it doesn't count for him. Salubri 17:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Individual Zanpakutō Articles...
Should we create them? I'm conflicted on the idea, and because of the recent Zanpakutō popularity poll, I want to know someone else's opinion on the matter. Some Zanpakutō like Zabimaru, Zangetsu and Hyōrinmaru could deserve separate articles since their spirits have been seen, while those like Senbonzakura (& maybe Ashisogi Jizō) have multiple abilities that require more space. The Zanpakutō are technically spirits after all, and Bleach is chock full of those. Getsuga Tenshō(note the internal link) is the only technique from a Zanpakutō that has it's own article, so why not at least Zangetsu?(it could be like the Hollow Ichigo Article)--Renji Abarai 08:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

We kinda been down that road. Someone did that to the entire powers section on ichigo's profile. Not only was that wrong but it just made no sense. No matter how popular or important ichigo is he doesnt get his own powers section. It also made it more messy. Im not really sure why the Getsuga Tensho has its own page, it seems more like a totally unnecessary reason to do what i was just saying. But either way it seems to be there because of the hollow ichigo article. There would really just be no room for it. For example how often do we see Toshiro use his zanpakto in comparison to ichigo, all you can say about the zanpakuto on ichigo's page is a lot of basic fact, if it had its own page it would become a page mixed with speculation, the area on his page is kinda long winded as it is because what we know of it is prominent compared to others. Besides there is no full info on a zanpakuto's but ichigo's and u never know when you'll get more. So far you've listed 4 people outta how many people. What about their zanpakuto requires more space really, that cant be placed on the page. My point is what's the point of doing something like that, it kinda leads to making a page for every piece of information you put down. Then you get totally irrelivatyant pages and only 4 people get actual pages for theirs and no one else's cause there isn't available information on theirs to warrant them having their own page. The better question is what more information needs to be under the category that cant be put there that should justify it having its own page. I say no it shouldn't be a separate page. There's a page for zanpakuto already just like there's a page for cero. Every variation of cero gets listed under it maybe with its own page link depending on its importance but in most cases its something possessed by multiple users. While every shinigami has a zanpakuto they each have a different one unique to them. You cant really do something to showcase a handful over the majority especially when there would be so many important characters left out cause of lack of information.Salubri 10:10, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm with Salubri. Making separate articles for a Zanpakuto, doesn't matter if it's Zangetsu or Oomaeda's Gegetsuburi is just senseless and unnesessary. I think we must keep zanpakuto's info as an adressed section in it's respective wielder page, because those pages shouldn,t be shortened. In the past, some users done separate pages for zanpakuto's and we just redirected all of them 'cause those pages just display redundant info (the copy and paste technic to be exact). I don't see any point in doing a separate article for zanpakutos. Also i don't see any point in doing separate articles for EVERY single section of the best articles we already have (specially in Ichigo's one, with the exeption of Ichigo's relationships one). Yeah, we would have a lot of pages, but the majority of them would be short pages or even Stubs. So my answer is No, we shouldn't create separate pages for zanpakuto's, but i think we could create Zangetsu's spirit (aka Old man Zangetsu) own page, because he's actually a separate character, but the powers and abilities of Ichigo's zanpakuto should stay in Ichigo's page. Just my opinion. Maul day 11:55, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with Maul day and Salubri. we tried it before and it wasn't a good idea. Having the Zanpakuto included in its own article makes it better for the reader since they don't have to be going back and forth between pages to find the info the want, kepping it together just makes more sense. To little info is know on each individual Zanpakuto so not enough info for even it's own article and like you mention am not really sure why there's an article on Getsuga Tensho but i think is something that we let go for so long is a little hard to just delete that article by now. I might agree to giving old man Zangetsu his own page since he has he's own identidy which is the reason Hollow Ichigo has an article but there are no other Zanpakuto that have shown any info on their spirit we seen Zabimaru but what do we really know about him other than how he looks? for now we keep the Zanpakuto with their respective owners in that page no need to create senseless articles. WhiteStrike 13:48, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I figured I was not the first to suggest it. I mean, I want us to reach 500 articles, but I do not want to create irrelevant articles that can be easily merged with character pages. The only reason it crossed my mind was the Getsuga Tensho Article, and I thought why not have a Zangetsu page?--then it expanded to all Zanpakutō w/ the recent fan poll. Thanks plenty for the advice. Renji Abarai 19:38, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Unknown Section of Zanpakuto Sugesstion
Well instead having that we could move Chōjirō's Zanpakuto to a phyiscal type since it turns into a rapier which seems more phyiscal than kido or some element type. As for Gin and Izuru I have an suggestion for an diferent class of Zanpakuto:Matter/Phyiscs. This class involes Zanpakuto that alters the weight or size or an object or itself. Izuru's manipulates the weight of an object and Gin's manipulates its own size.Saimaroimaru 14:48, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

What about Iba's?--Agate genbu 12:54, 29 March 2009 (UTC)


 * His should be in Physical type.Saimaroimaru 21:41, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Where?
I've been wondering for a while now, where exactly do souls get their zanpakuto from?Rhysno1 21:46, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Zanpakuto are generated by the souls of their respective shinigami. So the zanpakuto is a piece of the soul and therefore apart of the shinigami, but at the same time they have their own sentient spirit. Salubri 21:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

yes but where do they come from, it cant just be there one day?Rhysno1 21:46, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * If a spirit in soul society has enough spiritual energy to become a shinigami from that energy the zanpakuto is generated. Its like the difference between a regular citizen of soul society who doesnt possess one but shinigami do. It just is generated at that point. Salubri 21:53, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

that doesn't make any sense, toshiro hitsugaya didn't have a zanpakuto when he entered soul society even the it was beyond normal shinigami?Rhysno1 15:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Im not sure what you wanna know. Hitsuguya didnt have a zanapakuto at the time, there is no indication when he generated it, all that is known is at some point the dragon appeared to him and from that point on he had one. The basic idea is look at ichigo becoming a shinigami thats probably the best example you'll find of a zanpakuto being generated. Salubri 15:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Shunsui's Command-less Shikai
In the latest chapter it appears that Shunsui releases his zanpakuto without speaking its rather drawn out release command - should this be added to the section that mentions Renji doing the same? Mohrpheus 03:47, 14 June 2009 (UTC)