Forum:4th Bleach Movie

Info
I couldn't really think of where to put this, so I am putting it here. The 4th Bleach movie has been announced and it is apparently scheduled to be released Winter of 2010. So about this time next year. Details are very sketchy but a large poster was included with this weeks Shonen Jump and per the translation of Sheetz from FLOL the movie concerns Ichigo's "perfect hollowfication.", i.e. his second vizard form. Apparently more detail about the movie will be coming later. I will be using this post to add more details as they become available. Tinni 19:46, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

The following clip contains nothing new. The two seconds of content that's labelled as being from movie 4 is actually from Fade to Black. However for the sake of completness I am throwing the clip up here, seeing as it is an official teaser clip. Tinni  (Talk)  08:49, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

The title of the new movie will apparently be 第４弾　Horo of Horokillrer　ホロウとホロウを斬る者 (Horo of Horokillrer - The one that cuts a Hollow, is a Hollow!?). So does that mean the official spelling of Hollow is Horo? Tinni  (Talk)  09:52, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

8_uNHYyzEAg

Here is the new teaser trailer--Lemursrule (talk) 23:19, August 2, 2010 (UTC) thumb|300px|right

Finally I have some new information on the movie. Below is what was passed along by 69ruma of 2ch. It was translated by Maaru from FLOL. Tinni  (Talk)  14:22, July 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * 映画地獄編　12/4公開　上映90分予定


 * Hell Arc movie will be shown on December 4, planned to be a 90 minute film.


 * 劇場版で初の苺完全虚化


 * It'll be the first film featuring completely hollowfied Ichigo.


 * 前売りは7/31発売　先着8万名


 * Advance booking for the first 80,000 will be announced on July 31.


 * 特典は表裏書き下ろしのポスター3枚1セット、裏面は私服イラスト

Here is some info from the pre-order movie pamphlet and for once it is not a single character centered movie, more like memories of nobody.


 * ルキアが映画でまた刺されるらしいな.

チラシに書いてあったらしいぞ

It seems that Rukia is going to be stabbed again in this movie

it's written in the pamphlet

売り買ってちらしもらってきた

>>941のとおり、何者かに後ろから刺されるルキアのカットがあった

I've got the advanced pamphlet

like 941 said, there's a picture cut of Rukia stabbed from behind by unknown man

脚本は３と同様でナツコと大久保

ストーリーは地獄の凶悪な咎人が反乱して空座町を襲う

救ったのは「黒刀（コクトー）」（トーは本当は刀にりっとう）

一護さんは現世を守るため、ルキアと石田恋次、コクトーと一緒に

地獄に殴りこみだそうです

same as the 3rd movie it's written by Natsuko and Okubo

the story is about some atrocious villain rebel from hell that'll attack Karakura town

the one who has to be saved called 「黒刀（Kokutoo）」(he has something to do with sword?)

Ichigo-san in order to protect the living world, together with Rukia, Ishida, Renji and Kokuto will raid the hell world

seeing from the movie PV the living world member who will be active in this movie might be only Ishida

it's also the first time they include a living world member as an active character in battle.

にはそこまで出るキャラ詳しく書いてないが…

地獄の番人かなんかとオールキャラが戦う、と

一護ルキア石田恋次が地獄に殴り込みにいく、くらいしか

there's not much written about the other characters..

all characters are fighting against the hell guards or something like that, but

only Ichigo, Rukia, Ishida and Renji passed through

plus here are the complete poster sets and a link to a cool limited edition casio exilim camera that features ichigos 2nd hollow form mask and puts the bleach characters into your photos. http://bleach-ex.com/?pid=22327794 http://pics.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/pic/002114tr http://pics.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/pic/00215gx3 http://pics.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/pic/00212hgw http://pics.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/pic/00213x0h http://up.6mm6.net/uploads/images/6mm6-af1456ca4d.jpg http://pics.livejournal.com/_debbiechan_/pic/00212hgw --Lemursrule (talk) 03:08, August 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * The incentives are 3 posters in one set, the reverse in civilian clothes illustrations.


 * Aセット苺、井上、ウルキオラ


 * Set A is Ichigo, Inoue, Ulquiorra


 * Bルキア、白哉、レンジ


 * Set B is Rukia, Byakuya, Renji


 * C素人、ギン、グリムジョー


 * Set C is Hitsugaya, Gin, Grimmjow


 * 師匠のメッセージ


 * Message from sensei (Tinni's note: Kubo is referred to as sensei by his Japanese fans):


 * 今回の劇場版では企画・脚本の段階から参加させてもらい、


 * This time, I'm participating from the planning and scenario stage,


 * 強い思い入れのある作品です.


 * so I'm putting everything that I can for this production.


 * 連載10周年にふさわしい、きっとすごい映画になると思います.


 * It's just apt for the 10th anniversary of my serialization, so I'm sure it'll be an incredible movie.


 * 楽しみにしてください.


 * And I hope you'll enjoy it.

"You have to watch next movie if you love Ichigo and Orihime." I do not know how much she will participate, but I guess it is more than the MON and DDR. --Lemursrule (talk) 19:15, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Bleach character designer Masashi Kudo, tweeted in english(yes he does read and write and speak english to an extent) revealed that Orihime will be playing a part in the new bleach movie. Mr. Kudo tweeted in response to a fan being upset that there would be no "ichihime" moments.

New title to the 4th movie is revealed

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-07-12/december-bleach/jigoku-hen-film-overseen-by-kubo User:Zangetsu20

Official 4th movie site If anybody knows how to translate most of the things on the site including the links in it. please post them here. i managed to translate some of them but theirs still a whole lot of information that can tell us about the movie. User:Zangetsu20

Discussion
That is, eh, a rather unexpected focal point for a Bleach movie. Assuming that it does indeed turn out to be the focus of the plot, then we could well see lots of the Human characters that have been all but ignored in the previous films. Anyway, they're been getting better with each film, so fingers crossed for fourth time lucky. I just hope it doesn't descend into, well, into the silliness that is the end of the first three films. -- Yyp  (Talk)  20:47, December 16, 2009 (UTC)


 * Great, hope it has a good plot, and that they introduce a lot of new characters (previous movies introduced too few). I'd love to see more Hollow/Arrancar-centric plot, played at Hueco Mundo.--Lon-ami 21:10, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

I am glad they took a break from the movies this year fade to black was a very good movie pretty hard to beat when considering other shonen jump movies. By fade to black it was clear that Studio Perriot were no longer skitish on diving into cannon material for a movie(hisagi's zanpaktou was revealed in fade to black before it aired on tv.) Also making koga a kuchiki(although by marriage) they made a filler character be really involved and kinda redefining the cannon material. Studio Perriot is very confident now in their stories and animation.What I would really like to see is when the manga is done make the finale of the anime a movie kinda like what they did with the first fullmetal alchemist series. Either way looks really good we should hear more about it in the coming months.--Lemursrule 21:28, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

I happen to think Fade to Black was utter rubbish and another very formulaic offering from the studio. So I hope that the 4th movie is radically different from the other movies. Because I am really sick of the same formula over and over and over again. Anyway, I bet the movie is going to revolved around Ichigo losing his mind and becoming the villain of the movie. I predict the movie will involved his comrades trying to stop him/bring him back to himself. Tinni 21:47, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

@Lemursrule. First? Is there a second Fullmetal Alchemist series? @Everbody else(LOL). I have to agree with Tinni on the third movie and in a way all of the movies. They have gotten alittle worse each time. But thats typical with Sequels. At anyrate I hope this movie is the best of the four. If so we could see a fifth movie, but I don't want anymore. I don't want Bleach pulling a DBZ, where theres like 15 thousand movies. Minato (Talk)  22:08, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

The second series of fma is fma:brotherhood it is a remake of the original series and stays much closer to cannon material than the original series did(which was mostly filler) and is an ongoing series based directly off the manga. Tinni is right ftb is really all both mon and ddr but that's what I like about it, to me it felt like a "bleach" movie. mon lacked some action, ddr the plot was way too thin for a 90 minute movie, but the action made up for, but still ddr was just a great big dumpload of fan service with awesome music. ftb looked really back at the entire series and had a story ok the snake hollow thing was weird, but it was an emotional story there was good character development more kon time and they did not go overboard with fan service. ftb was more true to tv show than it's predecessors. Looks I know it's not spirited away but compare it to naruto movies and you will see my point. Again would really love like a 2 hr movie finale for the actual anime series. Also any of you guys live in south Asia the english dub of bleach is premiering this friday on animax south Asia. and NO DBZ stunts that was so cheesy--Lemursrule 22:33, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

WOW i saw the poster when i read the new chapter of bleach on wednesday, but i didn't know it was the poster for the new movie!!! I had been waiting for an announcment of a new movie all over the past summer but never got one. I didn't know they were taking a break this year. I think Fade to Black was awesome and the ending had me in tears. This movie will be really good if it focuses on Hollow ichigo.--Vandiir 06:43, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

fade to black was the best of the bleach movies and i hope the 4th one is even better

"Because I am really sick of the same formula over and over and over again".

I agree with Tinni on that one. Bleach movies and especially fillers are usually the same. I mean, we always get to a part where tons of menos are thrown on screen just to give the ensemble cast something to do while the main characters or the main character at hand (Hitsugaya in the second movie and Rukia in the third) go to finish off the villain. Deimonos 11:58, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Not to cause a flame war, but the manga itself it just as formulaic as the movies have been to some people, so I fail to see any logic in what Tinni and those agreeing with her claim. Regardless, the majority of people on the internet tend to eb insuffereably cynical, so it's pretty hard to take their opinions seriously, to be perfectly honest. Anyway, the second and third movies did have the same plot formula, but radically different content and execution for both, and I maintain the argument that Fade to Black was the best of the Bleach movies by far. Let's see what the 4th movie'll be about. Krone8 22:52, July 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's not about being cynical, its about having taste and standards. The fillers and the movies, which are comparable to anime fillers, are garbage which are rife with out-of-character canon-characters due to poor plotting, terrible dialogue and just clumsy storytelling and they all end, as Deimonos put it, with "tons of menos are thrown on screen just to give the ensemble cast something to do while the main characters or the main character at hand go to finish off the villain" <- that's the formula of the fillers and the movies and its now gotten fairly tiresome and predictable. The fact that you compared those piles of garbage to the Bleach manga proper amazes me to no end. Let's get something straight here, Bleach the manga establishes the baseline, the universe, the fillers and the movies are suppose to be part of that universe and can be judged on how well they fit into the universe. I am yet to see a filler or a movie that does fit into universe. They are distinctly inferior and are as out-of-universe as mediocre or worse fanfictions that are on offer in fanfiction.net. There is zero evidence that any of the studio writers have bothers to step back and really get into the ends of the characters they are writing. Which given that Bleach is a character driven manga, makes fillers and movies hard to swallow. If you can swallow them, good for you, but do not dismiss the legitimate dislike of others as "people on the internet are overly cynical". Having standards is not being cynical. Tinni   (Talk)  04:42, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * True true Tinni. Yet I think you may be one of those people who is just far to intelligent to enjoy movies such as these (or even a series such as this. It IS a cartoon/comic/manga). I sure as hell enjoyed all the movies though lol. I mean yeah they have very basic story telling/plot and yeah their lack of cannon characters and plotline can get a little tidious at times. But in some way they have their own flavor that seperates them from the show/manga, and I kinda like it. I know they have very little to offer us as far as "cannon" material goes, but you have to give 'em a bit of a break. I mean sound, picture, character involvement, and Bankai releases are all there. Realy... what else do we want?? ( you guys WAN'T looser SIDE characters?? gimme a break!) Kubo can't give us much of the main story line in a "MOVIE", including Bankai/Shikai/Resurreccion releases (never mind reatarded side characters) that we have yet to see, So what if he makes us watch 'em fight amongst eachother?? Big deal. So what if it all follows "The Cliche"?? Get over it already! You'll be seeing A LOT of it in ALL media as time goes on. Of course it would be wicked if Kubo cooks up some cooler Arrancar/Bankai able Shinigami characters, like he does in the games (which i loved lol), but that has obviously not been an option up to this point. So "BIG fake ass monstrosities" are the best way they can show us ALL the characters abillitys without creating/killing a bunch of cannon based characters. I mean they ARE restricted by the fact that they HAVE TO END the movie in 100 minute period or so. Anyways I'am 100% behind Bleach's fourth film. Cliche or not it WILL still be fantastic :D.
 * True true Tinni. Yet I think you may be one of those people who is just far to intelligent to enjoy movies such as these (or even a series such as this. It IS a cartoon/comic/manga). I sure as hell enjoyed all the movies though lol. I mean yeah they have very basic story telling/plot and yeah their lack of cannon characters and plotline can get a little tidious at times. But in some way they have their own flavor that seperates them from the show/manga, and I kinda like it. I know they have very little to offer us as far as "cannon" material goes, but you have to give 'em a bit of a break. I mean sound, picture, character involvement, and Bankai releases are all there. Realy... what else do we want?? ( you guys WAN'T looser SIDE characters?? gimme a break!) Kubo can't give us much of the main story line in a "MOVIE", including Bankai/Shikai/Resurreccion releases (never mind reatarded side characters) that we have yet to see, So what if he makes us watch 'em fight amongst eachother?? Big deal. So what if it all follows "The Cliche"?? Get over it already! You'll be seeing A LOT of it in ALL media as time goes on. Of course it would be wicked if Kubo cooks up some cooler Arrancar/Bankai able Shinigami characters, like he does in the games (which i loved lol), but that has obviously not been an option up to this point. So "BIG fake ass monstrosities" are the best way they can show us ALL the characters abillitys without creating/killing a bunch of cannon based characters. I mean they ARE restricted by the fact that they HAVE TO END the movie in 100 minute period or so. Anyways I'am 100% behind Bleach's fourth film. Cliche or not it WILL still be fantastic :D.


 * PS:@ Lemursule. I now it has been a long time 4 me to respond, but right back at ya Lem. YOU are a true Bleach fan as well :). You rock lol. MrHatNClogs. (lol sorry first time editing a page like this, don't know how to add my name+date+time, maybe i just happens I dunno :P)


 * I am not all that hard to satisfy. I just want one thing form the fillers and the movies, a good story with a good plot that is well told. So far they have failed to deliver. I don't expect new canon material, I don't expect them to reveal new abilities. I do however, expect the story to be grounded in canon, the character to be in-character and yes I expect the story to be good. Instead, what you have is the studio writers recreating the "Soul Society Arc" over and over and over. I.e. Find an excuse to send Ichigo to Soul Society, then have him save Soul Society, sometimes by taking on the Gotei 13 and defeating them for their own good. One of the big reasons I absolutely LOATH Fade to Black is that those hacks at the studio were so out of ideas that they even resorted to make the Gotei 13 forget who Ichigo is to recreate the "Soul Society Arc" right down to it being Ichigo vs the Gotei 13 >.> How can anyone be satisfied with that kind of sub-par storytelling! I mean, people actually spent time and money to go see that movie in the theatres! Some bought the DVD! And for what? An inferior recreation of the Soul Society Arc? Come on! Anyway, on the bright side, Kubo is involved with the 4th movie from square one. So if any movie is going to be worth the price of admission, it'll be this one. Tinni   (Talk)  06:54, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

People liked the movies and fillers, because people liked movies and fillers. It's all about tastes and standards, remember? For example, many fans view the Hueco Mundo arc as a recycled Soul Society arc, considering that as "an inferior recreation of the Soul Society arc", and even more so view the Fake Karakura arc as "mindless shonen battles, not even worth being called a 'story' or 'character' arc". As for me, I have no tastes or standards; I take what I'm given, cause it could be all I'll get. Besides, all that deja vu in Fade to Black was absolutely intentional/necessary on the producers' part; Noriyuki Abe and his co-workers at Studio Pierrot are limited with what to work with in regards to the movies or filler, that hasn't been confirmed as canon in the manga, so no, movies and fillers will never kill off a character that hasn't already died in the manga, characters from the current manga arc will never be featured in the movies/fillers until maybe after that arc is finished, as-of-yet unknown shikai and bankai will remain unknown until confirmed in the manga, all for the simple fact is that Abe and Pierrot can't reveal anything at all until otherwise confirmed by Kubo. Regarding the characters themselves, they seem in-character throughout, but of course, personal taste plays a key role in that. Here's my advice to you; considering the fillers' and movies' track record of, in your perspective "being very weak imitations of the manga storyline", don't at all expect much from the 4th movie to avoid disappointment or outrage. Krone8 22:23, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can expect whatever I want, thank you very much and if you have no taste then you shouldn't comment on other peoples taste. The fillers and movies so far have been a pile junk, not because they can't reveal anything new but because their stories suck. It is always blatantly clear that they are trying to have as many fights as possible and also cap things off with a big fight scene because that's that shonen genre and what their audience is paying for. Which is why the studio would have been better with a plotline that goes "The Spirit King called a tournament (we don't have see the spirit king just know that he called a tournament) -> the prize can be chosen by the winner -> Shinigami, Ichigo + friends all enter to have their wishes granted -> They can use this to exclude people whose ability they don't know anything about or who are just overpowered (Yama-jii) -> The Shinigami fight each other -> King arranges for Arrancar and high level hollows to crash the tournament because finds that amusing -> more fights with lots of eye candy -> winner emerges -> King decides they were all boring and doesn't give them the prize/gives them the prize but it doesn't turn out to be what they expected much hilarity ensures." Now that's a story that fits neatly into 90 minutes and even the studio can't make a meal out of it. Tinni   (Talk)  03:00, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

I was just trying to help out on that last one, is all, and there's a chance that I could be right about you not liking the fourth movie. Besides, regardless if it's what you believe, the way how you're stating your opinion makes it seem like you're bashing the movies and fillers. Krone8 06:49, July 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes and there is a chance no one will like the 4th movie. What does that have to do with anything and in the same vain of "so what", so what that I am bashing the movies and fillers. I don't like them, I always give them a change and they have so far always disappointed me. It would seem that others feel the same way. You don't, that's great but do you actually have a point in there somewhere, because right now it seems you are just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing and haven't really given a good reason as to why anyone in their right mind should care about the fillers or the movies. All you have done is make broad attacks on people expressing negative opinions by calling them "insufferably cynical" and then brought-up how Bleach can be considered formulaic and how some people don't like Heuco Mundo Arc and/or the Fake Karakura Arc. Once again, so what? Lots of people are oppose to the very concept of manga and anime, they didn't even like it as children. What does that have anything to do with anything? I and others who posted on this thread gave concrete reasons as to why we don't like the movies and fillers that have been released so far. You are yet to give a clear reason why you like movies and fillers except to say that you have no taste and you like them just because you do. Great! But that neither here nor there. Articulate why you like them and if you can't articulate why you like them, doesn't that say something about the quality of the fillers and movies? In short, get to the point. Tinni   (Talk)  07:47, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

For the bashing, I was just trying to point out how it's pretty frowned upon by most people, and your account could get suspended later on for that. I'm fine with your opinion, it's the way how you gave out your opinion that made it seem like you were bashing it; just saying you don't like them and why was enough, you didn't have to call them garbage and call the producers "those hacks at the studio", is all I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong or attack you, just giving out my view that fillers are just mindless entertainment while we wait for the storyline to pick itself up in the manga, while movies are supposed to garner more money so that they could better animate future episodes; just entertainment, not something to be taken all that seriously. You hold the view that the movies and fillers are formulaic, and I was trying to point out that the same is true for the manga, just that it uses a different type of formula. No disrespect was ever intended. Krone8 23:00, July 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * ... Amusing but no. We don't have a rule against bashing anything but other users. Which I recently remembered you did do in the past. So really, drop it already. Also, yes the movies and fillers are garbage and the studio writers are hacks and I stand by my comments 100%. Tinni   (Talk)  23:26, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, other users only. That bashing wasn't what I intended, back there, but it happened anyway. To finish this of, I'll say this: You stand your opinion, and I'll stand by mine; the movies and fillers aren't garbage and the studio writers aren't hacks, and I would've appreciated it if you hadn't bashed them like that, cause that's pretty rude and disrespectful (I know, I'm one to talk). Either way, though, we'll never reach an agreement, so let's move on. Krone8 23:47, July 10, 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, what are your predictions about what'll go down in the fourth movie? Krone8 00:14, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

I don't mean to step into this and onto anyone's toes, but as a causal observer and user of the Bleach Wiki, after seeing your blatant hostile behavior, if there is someone 'above' you on the chain of command of ownership, they should remove you, Tinni, of all your positions because for someone in your standing on the Bleach Wiki, you have continually, on several ( and seemingly continuous) occasions acted out of line and extremely immature, attacking anyone who has even the slightest iota of a different opinion as you even (99.9% of the time) not even directed a single attack or troll in your direction.

Back on topic, I am really looking forward to the new Bleach movie! The first movie of the three is my favorite while all three had unique and interesting plots and executed them in different ways, the second two turned into the same "All the 'heroes' fight the mass blob of weak enemies while the acting main character finishes the lead villain off" for the second two movies and the latest filler arch. I greatly enjoyed the Bount arch, while filler it fit very well into the manga adaptation portion of the Anime and while of course short, it had a very well developed backstory, continuing plot, and action scenes, and while I wish someone besides Ichigo would have finished off Kamina (Shinsui, Ukitake, Komamura, Byakuya, or Yama even) for what it was I throughly enjoyed it. It gave a nice sense of breathing room that the manga doesn't have, that the world goes on regardless of what some rogue has under plan (the universe circling the overpowered and one-dimensional Aizen was beginning to rub on me). The second and third filler archs, not so much. Spoiled by the Bount arch, I refused to watch the Princess arch and from what I have been told, it was good I saved my time, and while the third arch started off really well (though the interuption once again got on my nerves), it played well until half way through when it resolved itself into an ending like the second and third movies; "massive blob of weak enemies fight the cast while the acting hero dashes in to fight the final boss". Hopefully, with the whole Aizen deal now wrapping to a close, the movie will be the kick start to the continuation of the Bleach story (Tite has said in interviews that the current plot is just the first of many he has planned and in the idea stage) because I would hate to see the series end on Aizen's defeat. Bishonen Pimp (talk) 04:47, July 23, 2010 (UTC)

Just as a quick question, you're saying that, while you didn't like the formula of the climax the Zanpakuto arc and the second two movies had, you liked them overall? Krone8 (talk) 00:44, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

I have a question does anybody know what it means when they said set A cuz i dont know what that means does anyone else know. And cant somebody please try to get the official trailer, cause if you can get that short teaser video you can try to get the trailerZangetsu20 (talk( 08:00, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

The new picture for the 4th film on Bleach Wiki's "Movies" page is an immage of a bloodied Ichigo breaking through the gates of Hell. That picture makes me think that a big part of the film might be a problem with being trapped in Hell forever (possibly a set timeframe: get to the gates before the clock strikes whatever, or you're stuck down there.) Another theory I have is the reapearance of several older villains that Ichigo already defeated, (AKA: killed and sent to Hell) but keep in mind; something a lot of people forget is that the arrancars are masses of Hollows that ate each other in order to become stronger. In other words, defeating an arrancar is like helping thousands of souls pass on: if my comeback theory is correct, they shouldn't be making comebacks. The thing I just can't figuree out is the signifigance of the fully Hollowfied Ichigo. Tell me what you think. Dreamer44 Monday August 16, 08:52 AM

Guest Characters... Link

http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/bleach/

It says Yuzu will be kidnap by a hell character and Ichigo and friends will go there and he would fight in full hollow form?

Theres is one post by Kubo explaining the word Inferno (5 meanings)? The word Inferno has been added to the title?

Soulreaper1234 (talk) 19:23, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Grimmjow and Ulquiorra In the Movie.
I have numerous sources telling me that Ulquiorra and Grimmjow are to be part of the plot in the new movie, I didn't believe it myself but I looked around a little and foung out that they ARE going to be in the plot of the movie. ZMurcielago 12:22, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Care to site some official sources for that? Avolling (talk) 12:25, October 13, 2010 (UTC)