Talk:Shūkurō Tsukishima/Archive 1

Think that he's really Ichigo's cousin?
That's what Ichigo's sister called him think it's true?MrAnonymous (talk) 18:10, June 16, 2011 (UTC)MrAnonymous

He will not be listed as their cousin until there is proof--

Its been determined he has manipulated them into believing this due to his power, he is of no actual relation.--Salubri (Talk)  17:18, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Falsification of History
Past Manipulation sounded sort of wierd to me. He's not exactly manipulating their pasts, he's creating a fake history where he existed in their life. If you disagree, go ahead and revert it. This ability is rather strange to name. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  19:52, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

Seems accurate enough.--Salubri (Talk)  17:18, July 22, 2011 (UTC)

Swordsmanship Expert
He's been shown, for like, 15 chapters now to be able to contend with the likes of both Ichigo and Ginjo in swordsmanship. Shouldn't there be something that notes that in his Powers & Abilities section? --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity 21:42, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Seireitou, in fact this entire page is definitly lacking in detail and information. I'll see if I can edit it a lil Jmor (talk) 07:34, July 25, 2011 (UTC)

Shinigami?
On this picture it shows someone standing behind Unohana that looks extremely like Tsukishima. With latest chapter revolations can we assume that he was the Shinigami that gave Ginjou his powers? HidanSenpai13 (talk) 00:26, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

No. That's Seinosuke Yamada, Hanataro's brother and ex-lieutenant of the 4th Division. There is no connection between him and Tsukishima. To say so would be speculation. Arrancar109 (Talk)  00:33, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Huh? Rukia had no resemblance to Ichigo when she gave him her power. Looks have nothing to do with the matter. Also, we do not know the circumstances behind Kugo gaining Shinigami powers. And we cannot say that just because two people look alike that they are in fact the same person. Lots of people erroneously thought that Baraggan was Chad's grandfather or the old man with glasses in the Kuchiki household. There is no proof and thus it cannot be placed on any article. Bleach Wiki:Speculation Policy 10:48, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Powers and Abilities
The powers and abilties section appears little limited. Tsuksihima has shown more than just enhanced speed and his Fullbring. Tsukishima was kicked by Ichigo and sent crashing into the roof of his own manison and looked no worse for wear. Isn't that grounds for mentioning his durablitiy in ability section?

He isolated Ichigo and made him feel alone, which made the latter rely on Ginjo even more as well as use Orihime and Sado as pawns to play with Ichigo's emotions. I think this shows he is a good tactian. Someone else mentioned the swordsmanship expert above me.

I am unsure if it was clearly estibalished if Tsukishima has spiritual power or not. He appears to have been able to seen the explosion caused by Ichigo recieving shinigami powers and Orihime's Shun Shun Rikka when she restored his arm and or shielded him from Ichigo's attack, which I believe are things that can only be witnessed by people with spiritual power. However, Orihime's Shun Shun Rikka was said to be invisible to normal people when they were first introduced, so I have no idea if that is still in effect. The explosion I am unsure if it was reiatsu or not. I would assume it was considering its nature, but is that good enough to mention Tsukishima has spiritual power in this page? --GL089 (talk) 00:37, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Most people with spiritual powers are spiritually aware. Chad himself a fullbringer didnt become spiritually aware until the last minute before he developed the arm of the giant. It would stand to reason that all fullbringers are able to see spirits just as chad can.--Salubri (Talk)  21:29, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I figured as much, but since Tsukishima still does not have spiritual power listed under his abilities I figured you guys wanted stated he has reiatsu. If I add to his abilities and back it up with a reference from the manga can I add the mentioned above into this page? --GL089 (talk) 22:50, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yea thats fine. It seems as if no one put it down thats all. Note that spiritual power and spiritual awareness are separate one is having spiritual power and the other is being able to see spirits. --Salubri (Talk)  22:56, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I added what I felt was clearly shown or stated in the manga. If anyone feels I added something that was still not clearly stated or shown feel free to change anything. I was trying to add more to the page because he has shown more than his Fullbring. --GL089 (talk) 00:57, September 1, 2011 (UTC)

Anyone notice how he could cut Orihime and others and did not injure them? And Orihime even wondered why she wasn't cut. Tsukishima was able to cut Byakuya and leave a wound(Draw Blood). Maby there could be something added about him being able to control this? Skarrj (talk) 02:39, November 7, 2011 (UTC)

Ability
This is a little off topic, but anyone notice that Tsukishima can actually cut people? When he cuts Uryu in chapter 458, Uryu bleeds which is not normally what happens when he uses Book of the End. Any thoughts? --Shanghaikid2007 (talk) 18:27, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

That wasn't Tsikishima who cut Uryu. It was actually Kūgo. Kevinsk (talk) 10:39, August 31, 2011 (UTC)Kevinsk

You weren't looking at the right chapter. I know Kūgo did it the first time when he was put in the hospital, but when Ichigo learns that Kūgo is evil, Kūgo cuts Ichigo and Tsukishima appears behind Uryu and cuts him down the shoulder. Go back to chapter 458 and see.--Shanghaikid2007 (talk) 12:19, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Shanghaikid's right. We've already confirmed that Tsukishima can seemingly switch the falsification of history thing on and off. How, we're not quite sure. Aeron Solo wuz here (If you wanna talk)  13:00, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

Book of End tassel
I noticed that Tsukishima's Book of The End has a tassle at the end of it as seen here http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/468/ and here http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/457/9 and here http://www.mangareader.net/bleach/440/8 Cpudemon (talk) 06:03, October 27, 2011 (UTC)Cpudemon

FakeInvention
Should we really say that Riruka's weapon was invented by Tsukishima? That sounds like an obvious fabrication on his part, just like how he "helped Byakuya develop all his techniques". IDK, it's worth a note at least.

No, because there is no evidence to support that he didn't invent the Love Gun. We can take it off if there is evidence in the manga to support that he didn't invent the Love Gun, but so far, nothing has suggested that he didn't. To say anything else right now is speculation. Arrancar109 (Talk)  10:46, November 2, 2011 (UTC)

Death should be listed as ambiguous until further confirmation
Agreed? Uranak555 (talk) 18:40, November 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * He's dead. He had a hole blown clean through his chest. There is nothing ambiguous in that scene. He clearly falls dead.--
 * The same was said about Harribel getting stabbed by Aizen. Until we see, first-hand, that he's dead, instead of just collapsing, mark it as ambiguous. Krone8 (talk) 06:14, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

When there is proof that a human in the Bleach universe survives such attacks then thats when that will happen until then the official point is a fight to the death is evident and thats what byakuya did regardless of what a handful of people wish would happen.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  14:11, November 11, 2011 (UTC)

Profile Image
I think this image can suit his profile image better.

ダビデ - David, the Moon's Hidden Side 19:44, November 10, 2011 (UTC)Davidchola2


 * Profile pictures are discussed at Bleach Wiki Talk:Image Gallery--


 * In addition, that image has no legal tagging and there is already a discussion under way at the link Godisme provided regarding that very picture. 20:32, November 10, 2011 (UTC)

Book Of The End Anime Picture
Can someone upload a picture with Tsukishima's blade fully showing instead of with the tip cut off because I just watched the episode and saw that it shows it fully but I can't get high quality images. From Ichimaru-TsangHay Jing Tsang (talk) 15:27, November 22, 2011 (UTC)

Conflict
Tsukishima's ability that he did on Byakuya to learn about both his and Senbonzakura's powers is hardly any part of his history falsification power. Shouldn't it be added as a separate power of Book of the End? --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity 00:31, November 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * How isnt it, he cut senbonzakura, allowing him to place himself in its history like he always does, therefore he knows and has witnessed all of it attacks, knowing its strengths and drawbacks, he uses this knowledge to attack byakuya and thus inserts himself into byakuya's history thus learning everything about him as if he was there. His placement in the history of a target is not real but for the subject it is real and gains knowledge from that placement as though he was actually there.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  01:50, November 24, 2011 (UTC)

Falsification Differences Between Byakuya and the other victims
Tsukishima cut Byakuya and inserted himself into Byakuya's past, so that he taught Byakuya all of his techniques to learn all of them himself, but unlike the other victims of his Fullbring's power the cut is left on Byakuya's chest. Byakuya also theorized that Tsuksihima learned of Senbonzakura's Zero Damage/Hurtless/No Damage Zone from fighting Senbonzakura multiple times, but was at a lost for how he learned the name of the weakness. Tsukishima had to tell Byakuya that Byakuya told him that himself and reminded him that he had just been cut. Byakuya did not recall telling Tsukishima that despite Tsukishima inserting himself into Byakuya's past. Should these difference at least be mentioned in his Fullbring section? --GL089 (talk) 23:49, December 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * These aren't really important factors of his abilities!! Number one, we see Tsukishima's blade perfectly protruding from the left side of Orihime's chest so it's not relevant!! Number two, Byakuya only remembered it after Tsukishima began discussing it with him, as he'd only just cut him, no doubt it takes a moment for him to come up with every single detail of a character's past - remember Byakuya is older then Humans - so undoubtedly, given he remembered everything later, this conversation was the affects coming into effect because by the end of the fight Byakuya is fully aware of how much he apparently owes Tsukishima!! SunXia   (Chat)  01:07, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Tsukishima's Villainous Breakdown.
Would anyone care to add Tsukishima's immense display of emotion during Ginjo's death and whatnot for his personality? Achrones, the Cold Sniper 22:57, January 6, 2012 (UTC)


 * I already have that written and saved in a document, but his page is currently locked and therefore no one can edit it. Once it's unlocked I will add the edit.

Tsukishima's possible End
Why mention that the fact that Ichi's sisters returned to normal hints at his death ? While we knew Tsukishima was still alive (while he was carried by Shishigawara), Orihime couldn't remember him already. I think that Tsukishima either negated or "lost" his fullbring abilities, but that would be before an eventual death. Xelias0 05:21, January 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * He is dead. He died on Moe's back.--


 * This is further confirmed by the lack of his powers working anymore. It was stated that with his death his powers would fade as well. Kugo initally noted he had about 10 min to live and he is a human which sustained fatal injury on a level barring Orihime's power or maybe Shinigami healing kido no human medical skill can heal him from. He has blade shards blown through his torso and out his back, His internal organs where literally shredded in this regard. He further didnt receive any medical attention the entire time. We also take into account Riruka's realization when she finds out Orihime does not know who Tsukishima even is, thus the first point. When Moe was carrying him he was dying and basically dead by the end. There is no proof to state loss or negation of his fullbring, especially when it was stated that his death is what negates it. That is also the stance most bleach fans as well as this site has taken.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  05:49, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Valid proof that may be a supportive backbone to the statement, but that doesn't change the fact that it hasn't been confirmed. Kubo is a sly one, he's using a technique that would generally trick those, but give hints to those who aren't quickminded. Haribel was considered dead, only to be confirmed alive. Grimmjow was never considered deceased because that it's never confirmed. So why different for Tsukishima? I'm only suggesting here, but doing such an action as to confirm something that hasn't been directly confirmed by Kubo isn't Wiki-like. What if Tsukishima's Fullbring did disperse? Or, more logically, what if he canceled it himself? --LinkleSS (talk) 07:28, April 9, 2012 (UTC)


 * His method of cancelling has already been confirmed as stabbing them a second time with the intention of doing so!!


 * Its always to good to be clear and know the information. Aizen wanted her dead and therefore thats what we went with, if anyone could kill her with ease given the situation at the time it was him. It was actually confirmed Harribel was basically a minute from death until Orihime healed her, it was never a she made it on her own and was never dead or in a dying situation, we also never did anything with Grimmjows status because we definitely didnt know, later Kubo did confirm that Grimmjow was alive. The point being there is alot of research that goes into whether a person is dead if its a questionable situation. This is not such a situation. Your being grossly speculative creating scenario that doesnt exist making the established information fit your view. The fact is unless there is something you can come up with that using the information presented this is a dead conversation. Byakuya blew a hole throught the mans chest and out his back, the fact that he was still moving for a bit was ridiculous on Kubo's part because regardless of the powers Fullbrigners are still just humans, such injuries are fatal especially that one even with medical care. There was confirmation about the fullbrings power disappearing with their death. further confirmed by Orihime's lack of knowledge of Tsukishima, Riruka's reaction to that. Also Ichigo's friends and family returning to normal. This very concept was brought up 2 times in the arc after kugo explained how it would work. If nothing else this information was overwhelming in regard. Sun is also right. This isnt a what if or maybe situation its a is he or isnt he. This wasnt a get hurt and not sure of his fate thing such as Grimmjow. This was very straight forward. You dont even edit here and your telling a site that is the most referenced and informative of anime/manga sites that its not being wiki-like to confirm something that was confirmed multiple times in the arc. Its just disrespectful to insinuate we dont know what we are doing. Thats like saying Kugo isnt dead cause we didnt see his body. Kubo's personal confirmation is only required on something thats really unknown, those confirmations are only for those situations. -- <span style="background:#1E90FF; background:-moz-linear-gradient(top, #000000 0%, #000000 50%, #000000 100%); background:-webkit-linear-gradient(top, #ceb510 0%,#fcf7ce 50%,#ceb510 100%); background:-o-linear-gradient(top, #000000 0%,#000000 50%,#000000 100%); background:-ms-linear-gradient(top, #000000 0%,#000000 50%,#000000 100%); background:linear-gradient(top, #000000 0%,#000000 50%,#000000 100%); padding:1px 2px 1px 2px; border-radius:10px; border:2px solid #1E90FF;"><span style="color:#1E90FF; font-weight:bold; font-style:bold; font-variant:non-small-caps; font-family:Kristen ITC; font-size:x-small;">Salubri <span style="color:#1E90FF; font-weight:bold; font-style:bold italic; font-variant:non-small-caps; font-family:Kristen ITC; font-size:x-small;"> (Chat) <span style="color:#1E90FF; font-weight:bold; font-style:bold italic; font-variant:small-caps; font-family:Kristen ITC; font-size:x-small;">    14:25, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

...Kubo's take on logic and rationality seemingly trolled us all... again. Xelias0 18:01, November 28, 2012 (UTC)


 * It is very simple: dead humans go to Soul Society. 18:03, November 28, 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately he is right Yyp neither of the Xcution members should be in Soul Society.--

Previous Leader of the Xcution?
Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but I would like to know your reasoning for keeping it in his information box. Tsukishima was only credited as the original leader in the Xcution backstory that was proven to be false. --GL089 (talk) 02:59, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence to say he was not the previous leader. Yes, much of the original backstory of Xcution proved false but never was it stated he was not their previous leader.--
 * Little concerned, it was clear he met Kugo as a child and Kugo an adult, so I'm changing it to state affiliation rather!! He has also been shown to take orders from Kugo, perhaps in the Anime but this is the only proof otherwise, since the Manga did not clarify, it does not conflict!!
 * It is confirmed in his profile of Volume 51. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk    18:56, March 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually all that proves is that his position matches the story that kugo originally presented to ichigo. That is not a confirmation of anything we didnt already know if we simply went from that version. From all we can surmise prior and after the effects of Tsukishima's book of end its Kugo that controls everything thus making him the true leader, if anything Tsukishima is his right hand man playing a role for the plan they set up. Even when Riruka talks of the past she basically addresses the fact that if not for Kugo they wouldnt exist as a group, he brought them together and set up their purpose and was the driving person behind the plan against ichigo.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  19:13, March 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * While the manga is unclear about this, the anime seemed to imply in the latest episode that Tsukishima was indeed the original leader of Xcution. Riruka said in the last episode that they originally found Tsukishima and from there met Kugo, implying that Tsukishima was their leader at first. Take that for what you will.--


 * In chapter 470, Rirukia says they (referring to herself and other three members) "met Tsukishima" and then "were saved by Kugo." --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   19:59, March 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well lets make it real simple, whose plan were they following and who was giving the orders in general. As far as i can tell Kugo was the one giving all the orders especially to tsukishima. The concept behind who was leader when doesnt really matter. A group only exists if it has a purpose. Least we forget Kugo has known Tsukishima since he was a child. He has essentially followed Kugo around since then, the likelihood is even if he found the others it was under kugo's orders, besides that kugo was always there. --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  20:20, March 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * Feel free to remove 'Leader of Xcution' from 'Previous Occupation' parameter. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> Talk   16:25, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Censorship
His arm wasn't cut off like in the manga, I think it's pretty clear that's a case of censorship. Should I add it?Empty moon (talk) 17:15, February 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * It most definitely is obvious censorship. --<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  20:15, February 7, 2012 (UTC)