Talk:Rukia Kuchiki

Lacking Information In need of Update
The profile for Rukia is grossly lacking in information as he has held a large role in the series, as big as the "agent of the shinigami arc, arrancar arc, Hueco mundo'' and etc. can anyone update these. Salubri 20:48, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I've actually taken some steps to correct this. The the Soul Society and Arrancar arcs section were offensively short, but I've actually expanded it greatly. Still, you are correct. It does need more expansion. I think people are taking steps here and there though, and it is going to continue. Arrancar109 23:16, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I added a bit. Tinni 12:00, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Please change the picture of Rukia into a much nicer one....I tried to change it before but when i reopen the website the picture change back to the one before...

Nice is a matter of opinion. The picture is nice enough. Tinni 04:13, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Amagai shusuke arc
Has anyone noticed that the entire section of this arc has been erased and if so can someone please fix it.--SalmanH 08:46, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

It hasn't been erased, in fact it never existed. Someone put the headline there for it but nothing was ever put down.Salubri 09:12, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

So should there be any info about it or erase it all together.

There should be info put down it just depends on who's gonna watch that entire arc and do that.Salubri 13:07, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I added a couple of short lines for this arc, its by no means perfect, when I finish the (boring) arc I will add the rest, feel free to edit/delete if its not good enough, thought it would be better than nothing though :) Sasayaku 17:21, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Lieutenant?
I am sorry but where is this Rukia is powerful enough to be a lieutenant/vice-captain crap coming from? Only thing I have seen in the manga is chappy saying that she is strong enough to be a ranked officer, i.e. a seated officer. No one said she is strong enough to be a Vice-captain! Tinni 12:04, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

No character has said it directly to my knowledge, but Ashida Kano saying she's of a level to fight Adjuchas-class Menos, and she did beat an Espada and Rubodon, and effortlessly deal with Di Roy, and can throw kido in the 60s-70s. I think she'd be high end even for a lieutenant personally. Still, it is speculation so it probably should be edited. ZeroSD 10:25, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I have made the change. Not to say I don't think Rukia is strong enough to be a vice-captain but it is speculation. I mean, Di Roy was a weak arrancar and Aaronero basically got surprised to death. So it can be debated exactly how strong Rukia is. So I do think for now, it safest to just take chappy literally and say she's strong enough to be a seated officer. If it becomes clear she is Vice-captain level, it can be added. Tinni 13:15, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry bout that revert Tinni, you do make a valid point :D AuronValentine 13:19, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

No harm done :) Tinni 13:30, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Ok, this is getting irritating! It seems every few days I have to come in here and fix the fact that NO ONE HAS EXPLICITLY STATED THAT RUKIA IS LIEUTENANT/VICE-CAPTAIN LEVEL. Look, we don't know how her powers compare to those of other lieutenants. I get it, she killed an espada and is the only non-captain to do so. However, as I have already pointed out, she surprised him to death AND the espada in question was the only Gillian class espada. She got creamed in a second against Grimmjow, an actual adjucas class espada. Also by her reaction to when Renji asked her and Chad if they had fought espadas it's clear she doesn't think she "won" the battle. I think she thought it was tie but that's besides the point. The standard policy of this wiki from my understanding is to err on the side of caution. On the side of caution she ain't Vice-captain/lieutenant level. Please stop putting that in! Thank you. Tinni 15:24, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Dances?
The article states that Sode no Shirayuki's abilities are labeled as dances by Rukia. Where can this be confirmed? Just curious as to where that comes from, since I seem to remember that Sode no Shirayuki calls them dances as well when she's seen fightin during the current filler arc. I thought that the names of the techniques were taught by the sword. Ichigo learned the name of his technique "getsuga tenshou" because Zangetsu told him, right? Perhaps its just an assumption? If so, shouldn't it be deleted? Leena zeal 00:17, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

This is pretty simple dont use anything in a anime filler to confirm the validity of something already established, which appears to be whats happening here. We are not going to delete anything based on what happens in a anime filler. They were called dances way before this arc. Her release command is dance and every attack it uses has dance in the name. So unless theres an issue with that an actual manga based character's word carries more weight, seeing as that was there far before this arc. Not only that but we can't know the way of all things because of what ichigo has been through, he's a special case, who knows what way anyone else learns their abilities.Salubri 00:34, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

"Sode no Shirayuki's abilities are labeled as "dances" by Rukia". This is an assumption. Who can confirm that Rukia decided how to name her katana's attacks?. Leena zeal 01:02, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

There's a simple solution to this... Just remove the "by Rukia" portion. I don't believe she's ever stated that she calls them dances rather than those actually being the ability prefix and there would be no loss of relevant content in doing so. Ancient Chaos 02:29, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry for bringing up an old argument but I think I see whats happening here. While your are right, Leena zeal, Rukia never states that she calls them dances. When she states that each of her abilities are labeled as dances, she is simply stating that they are all dances. Some no Mai, the first dance, Tsugi no Mai, the second dance, San no Mai, the third dance. In short she is just clarifying that Sode no Shirayuki's abilities are dances, she isn't saying that's what she named them. Ten Tailed Fox 14:35, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Trivia section clean-up
Removed trivia
 * Despite her age, she has never progressed her drawing above that of a child's. It is revealed in an omake chapter that her Captain enjoys her artwork, which could explain why she continues to draw that way.
 * Rukia is one of two non-Captain-level Shinigami to kill an Espada, the other being Hachigen Ushōda who killed Barragan Luisenbarn. Overall, Rukia, Ichigo and Hachi are the only non-Captains (current or former) to defeat an Espada. She is also the first Shinigami to kill an Espada.
 * Rukia is also one of four characters to defeat an Espada without using a Bankai. The others are Kenpachi Zaraki, Hachigen Ushōda and Shunsui Kyōraku.
 * In the manga she originally came to Ichigo's house via a hell butterfly. However, in the anime, a hell butterfly comes out the window, and she seemingly phases through the wall.

I call junk. If you disagree, please explain. Tinni 12:49, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

* Despite the fact she never saw ichigo using the hollow mask before chapter 379(excluding filler episodes) Rukia apparently knew every pattern that ichigo's mask had so far.

I consider this junk trivia as well. If someone disagrees put it back. Minato88 09:10, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Well the wording of the trivia is completely and totally wrong. Rukia didn't claim that she saw the mask, just that she had heard that mask pattern changed overtime. Who she heard if from is left to speculation. However, isn't the fact she commented on Ichigo's mask changing noted in the synopsis section? Stating it again is irrelevant. Junk trivia, I say leave it out. Tinni 09:42, October 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * i missed a piece of text i re-read the chapter. can't believe i missed though. at least tite kubo paid attention to his own story and made up how rukia knew about the mask Shiny-gami 18:41, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Third Dance
The description for the third dance says that it freezes all surrounding objects, including the battlefield...but it doesn't. It may look that way in the manga, the the anime clearly shows that the third dance simply reforms her sword with ice. I'll change it, unless anyone somehow has an objection. Dartblaze 01:40, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

In the anime, it freezes the battlefield as well. When Byakuya arrives, Rukia is frozen to the floor, and he has to use Kido to break her out of the ice. Twocents 01:49, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I see. So it's a delayed effect. Dartblaze 05:15, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Change nicer picture
I think we should change the picture, picture that is from the anime and look more like the now Rukia. So what do you think which one is better?

Absolutely not to all the pictures. Especially the one from the SS arc! We are trying to update the pictures not revert them back to ones from old arcs. Here is one from episode 215 that I think is more "profile pic" worthy. Tinni 14:22, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Well, what's wrong with the current picture? It's almost a full body shot, it's high quality, and it's enough of a closeup that we can see certain features, like the color of her eyes and the details of her face and uniform. If every profile had a picture in that style, "facing the camera" so to speak, I think all of the profiles would be much more professional looking.Angeluscado 14:32, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

For the record I don't have a problem with the current profile picture. But doesn't mean we shouldn't review the profile pic from time to time. Tinni 15:29, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with reviewing the pictures, but I don't think Rukia needs to be changed. She isn't like Orihime where she looks different now than she does in the current profile picture. Unless she quits being a Shinigami or her looks begins to change noticeably, I don't see anything wrong with leaving it as it is, especially since I can't say I've seen a recent episode where the stance, facial expression, zoom, background, etc. made any potential screenshot superior to the current pic. Twocents 16:15, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Can we get some more pics on Rukia. I will try to help. The more I look at it the more I don't like it. It is a unique pic here as only Orihime's(another pic I don't really like) is like it. The black back-ground also makes her hair style unnoticeable. Minato 08:10, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, we can change Rukia's pic (and move the current one to the "Appearance" section, but honestly, I don't like any of the pics chosen so far. More choices would be appreciated. Arrancar109 08:21, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

I do like the pic of 215, because it shows how her appearance is now, better quality, through out the seasons their appearance changes a little but i also like pic C, they are both good, but i think we should put the pic of ep. 215, User:Zangetsu20

Create paths of Ice in the air?


Shouldn't we add in the article that she can create paths of ice in the air that allows her to walk on? I'll post a few screenshots from ep 215 to prove my point. Flamezthe4 17:56, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

No. It's likely a byproduct of one of her existing dances (most likely Tsugi no Mai). Arrancar109 (Talk)  17:58, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

Yea, that's true. I just found it kinda wierd cuz it looks like a "path", I mean, it's all curvy and so on, but it could be a byproduct yes. Or just that it's so cold in the air after she releases Sode No Shirayuki. Flamezthe4 18:02, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

"Sode no Shirayuki" mistranslation
袖白雪 translates to "Sleeve's White Snow"/"White Snow of the Sleeve". The possessive particle "no" operates backwards in comparison to its English counterpart "of". MarqFJA 11:17, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would like a second opinion on it first. I'll ask Adam Restling if he can confirm this. -- Yyp  (Talk)  11:55, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Episode 117 translates Sode no Shirayuke to "Sleeve of White Snow." Manga Chapter 201 page 16 translates it to "White Snow's Sleeve."  SerialSniper14 12:16, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but the the anime sub & manga scans are not official translators and have no connection with Kubo/anime staff. We've had this problem with them getting character names wrong before (mostly Arrancar), but I'd be really, really surprised if SnS was mistranslated. What does the Viz version translate it as? Anyway, I asked Adam, so I'll wait until he replies on this. -- Yyp  (Talk)  12:37, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Are you sure the one's responsible for those translations are reliable? Because basic Japanese grammar still strongly disagrees with them. And, Sougyou no Kotowari is of the same structure, and yet it's consistently translated as "Truth of Pisces". Consult any Japanese dictionary, and you'll find that "Sougyou" = "Pisces", and "Kotowari" = "Truth".
 * Besides, in every other instance the possessive "no" is ever used elswhere, whether in Bleach or another anime/manga, it's always "Alpha-no-Beta" = "Alpha's Beta". MarqFJA 12:41, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

I do believe that MarqFJA is correct. If it was meant to be "sleeve of white snow," it should probably have been Shirayuki no Sode. When the genitive particle no follows a noun, it is generally used to form this noun into a kind of pseudo-adjective, e.g. a phrase like mirai no kuruma "future car" (i.e. "car of the future"), where mirai "future" is a noun, and no is used to connect it to kuruma. Compare English it's a guy thing wherein guy is a noun, but is used as kind of an adjective to qualify thing, i.e. it's a guy's (kind of) thing.

Translations as "sleeve of white snow" or synonymous "white snow's sleeve" are errors that are likely due to the apparent oddity of the name's construction, especially for a novice who only knows no to mean "of": the phrase in English in such a case, "sleeve of white snow," would seem much more plausible than a strange-sounding literal (for a non-specialist) "white snow of sleeve." The latter mistranslation (again, ignoring the other uses of no) would strike the novice as strange and therefore less likely, perhaps skewing into "(Sir) White Snow of Sleeve" knighthood territory. XD

So I would translate Sode no Shirayuki as "sleeved white snow" (perhaps it refers to the gentle, cloth-like billows of some snowfalls): it is the most grammatically correct. Adam Restling 13:34, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. A lot of the zanpakuto names don't make literal sense, so I can understand people getting it wrong. Anyway, I've changed it to "Sleeved White Snow". -- Yyp  (Talk)  13:47, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

While I agree it makes more sense to an english speaker, we had this discussion re Kazeshini (of course, 'Wind Death') and while I was in favour of listing it in a english-friendly order, Tinni felt it should be translated literally, and not re-jig the order to suit a western reader, so I say 'White Snow of Sleeve' to maintain continuity. TomServo101 13:53, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think the two cases can be compared. We are talking about linguistics here. You do have to look at each individual case. In the case of Kazeshini, leaving the translation as "wind death" was being closer to the original Japanese then changing it to "Death wind" or "wind of death". In addition, the problem in the case of Kazeshini wasn't that the translation was inaccurate but that it didn't make sense in english. In this case, the translation is inaccurate. Tinni   (Talk)  13:58, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ur misinterpreting what Adam said. The Japanese word no is not just used as of. Its all explained above as to y Sleeved White Snow is the best and accurate translation. I also kno of the conversation on Shuheis page, but that was a different translation. Minato  (Talk)  14:00, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. It's part of the conundrum of ambiguity that occurs not only in Japanese but most languages. Some names, titles etc. retain usage of particles like no or adjectival endings, but many drop them, and the adjectival or other aspect of the word is only implied. This is the case with Shira- "white" in Shirayuki. This is an archaic/rarer variant of shiro- "white," but in actual conversation, "white" as an adjective would be shiroi, and so "white snow"  shiroi yuki. However, informally in compounds like names, the adjective ending -i can be dropped, and the intended adjectival meaning be implied. One could compare this to names like English Goodwin, where the fact that good is intended in an adjectival aspect, and not as a noun--e.g. something like a good (and) a man.

Since the intention, though, is not always clear--even from context--a more literal but still sensible translation is best. Whence I would approve of Kazeshini as "wind death" even though it might have been informally meant as "winds- (i.e. wind's) death," or "death of the wind" (note here that, as with Japanese, English constructions with of can be misleading, too: "death of the wind" can mean "an instance of the wind dying" or "an instance of death brought about by/borne on the wind"!). But Sode no Shirayuki as "sleeved white snow" seems to agree more (if not completely ) literally with the idioms of the Japanese whom, I daresay, might themselves double-take at an intended literal interpretation as "white snow of sleeve(s)"; at least it gives us a particle to work with! We do what we can in the translation game; the most sensible, faithful and elegant possible is what I would always recommend. If Kubo learns English enough to comment that I'm wrong, I'm all for at last attaining the correct form. Adam Restling 05:00, January 9, 2010 (UTC)

Debut
I think her manga debut should read 'pilot episode' Weedefinition   (Talk)  16:48, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. On the Kingdom Hearts Wiki, we've had a similar discussion; whether or not we should treat a Secret Movie as a first appearance. In all senses, it was a prototype chapter, and not an official publication. Maggosh 16:55, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it's a prototype chapter at all, but a pilot chapter, and one which featured central ideas to the later series at that. Whenever you look at any character in any series, be it TV, books or a comic strip, if a character debuts in the pilot, that's the way it is usually billed. I don't know Kingdom Hearts and I don't know if the situation there resembles that of the pilot chapter in Bleach, but different Wikis have different policies, and what one Wiki chose to enact doesn't necessarily have any baring on what another chooses to enact. Weedefinition  (Talk)  21:38, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

But the pilot chapter wasn't publicly released first, was it? To clarify, the situation on the Kingdom Hearts wiki was the secret ending for Final Mix+, and they came to the conclusion that it was non-canon, because it contained elements that were not present in the actual game (the recently released Birth by Sleep). Maggosh 16:08, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Guard design


Should I put his into the zanpakuto section to give a better idea of what the guard of Sode no Shiraiyuki's sealed state looks like? -- WhiteArmor  (Talk)  17:45, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

I think that's a good idea, considering its description (or lack thereof). Maggosh 17:52, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not against it, but you need to remember that there are space & format limitations there. Pictures in the section are only allowed on the right-hand side and there are already a ton of images there. If it goes in, it would have to replace the existing picture of her Shikai. Considering that her shikai is shown in the .gifs for each of her there dances, replacing the still picture of her shikai with this picture is alright with me, but lets see what others think first. Yyp (Talk) 19:52, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps if the image were cropped to just the guard and hilt...? Maggosh 20:40, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

I dont think its necessary. The shikai trumps the sealed as it is the actual true form of the sword and replacing the shikai picture shouldn't take place. Besides the fact that all the other gifs are made to display the attacks. Besides the guard there is no point to detail what the sealed form is.Salubri (Talk)  20:44, April 9, 2010 (UTC)