Forum:Rangiku Matsumoto's Status

I would like to take the time and the opportunity to share my concerns regarding to the status of Rangiku Matsumoto. Someone had edited her page, soon after Gin supposedly stabbed her and left her to ultimately die on chapter 412 http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/82151810/15 | http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/82151810/19, and written her off as “Deceased”. On chapter 414 on page 3 http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/41423749/3 Gin returned back to Aizen after supposedly killing her and said “I have returned, Captain Aizen”. Aizen replied “Returned, eh?” and then said “What happened to the girl?” Gin replied “I killed her”. On page 6 http://mangastream.com/read/bleach/41423749/6 Aizen was enlighten and said “Indeed, her reiatsu has disappeared” It goes on and on.

When I go to the history on her page it mentions “(As per Harribel, she was declared dead by a character in the story.)” IMO this is not a justified reason to write her off as “Deceased”. There is not an exclusively amount of evidence to back this theory up... especially from a character who is known to lie and soon after betrayed Aizen. I firmly believe that the status should be regenerated and change from deceased to Incapacitated until we figured out what truly happen with Rangiku Matsumoto in the later story that hasn't been disclosed to the public yet.

If anyone can prove other wise I am very eager to listen and learn from your side of the story.

Gin says she is dead, that is the only proof we need. Until otherwise stated, she will be listed as deceased. This is how things work on this site. Just because you don't think she is dead does not mean that she isn't. You have no proof that she is alive--God (Pray)  15:41, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Gin had said a lot of things that weren't entirely true, Do you still believe him? Gin has a very clever personality. He has a simular personality like Dexter. Do you honestly believe that he's going to reply "I let her live" Gin was hiding his true emotional feelings to Aizen. Aizen himself was surprised and actually quoted Gin "I imagined that you carried a bit more emotions torward that one".

Writing her off as deceased is only based on an opinion and not fact. Unless if this site has personal connections with Kubo himself this is only based on an opinion.

Firstly, sign your posts. Second, the evidence is on my side. Just because Gin lies a lot does not mean we can just say everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. The fact of the matter right now is that Kubo had Gin say she is dead. Until such time that we can prove otherwise, her status on this site will remain as deceased--God (Pray)  16:42, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Isn't this similar to how Aizen called Momo dead? its a different type of situation, however it is similar none-the-less, Aizen did not kill Momo for some odd reason. I am just noticing a similarity as it is probably near the end of the Karakura Town arc... Desruprot (talk) 16:45, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

I am going to have to Disagree with you(GOD). I believe that Hinamori's Status is stated as Incapacitated, While she has sustained wounds that clearly killed her and Aizen mentioned that she is dead.

When Hinamori's Status is going to be set as Incapacitated even though we know that she is dead, Why would you leave Rangiku as Deceased ?

either Make both character's status as deceased or incapacitated. Or to avoid confusion just make it unknown. Unfortunately I could not find the pages where Aizen mentioned that Hinamori is dead due to the lack of Manga sites. So if you can reference it online that would be great...Bharatram1 16:50, August 12, 2010(UTC)

I do not recall Aizen ever saying that Momo is dead. I am working on Aizen's page right now and so I am re-reading all those chapters. I have not come across Aizen saying this--God (Pray)  16:53, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

what I am talking about is a parrallel with the End of Hypnosis, sorry for not mentioning it when he directly stabbed Momo in the Central 46 Chamber. Not the recent part when he switched places... Desruprot (talk) 16:56, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

If we made that mistake in the past, so be it but this is policy right now. Would you like me to get an Admin in here to state everything I just said?--God (Pray)  16:58, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Aizen never said Momo was dead. He said he raised her so that she couldn't live without him, but that was way back in End of Hypnosis (SS arc) and Hinamori was able to recover from her injuries, both physical and psychological, and go to FKT to fight. The injuries she sustained in the Breaking Glaciers may be grievous, but until she is confirmed to be dead, say, we see her corpse/grave or by another character (like Rangiku was) she will stay Incapacitated. And Matsumoto will stay Deceased until she's proven alive or Gin himself states that he was lying previously, that's all about it. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  17:00, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

no I not all, I was just putting something up for discussion (since this is a forum) I do not think any of the status's need to be changed, I'm not saying to change anything, I was just noticing a similarity (if I recall policy speculation is allowed on the forums)Desruprot (talk) 17:01, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Are you Kubo himself? Is that why you claim to be "God"? What are your creditability may I ask? Just curious and no mean of offending you whatsoever. I see no evidence backing up your claim. You showed me absolute nothing that backs it up other then saying "This is how things work on this site." and "Gin says she is dead, that is the only proof we need.”

Theirs no proof indicating that shes dead. Gin was simply saying that so Aizen doesn't get suspicious to Gin. The appropriate word is incapacitated, not deceased. If anything At least add a question mark after deceased to question whether shes truly dead or not. ByakuyaMayuri (talk) 17:06, August 12, 2010 (UTC)BM

Okay, here's the deal:
 * 1: Aizen only stated Momo was dead in the Soul Society arc; he did not know that she was alive until she made her appearance in the Fake Karakura Town arc. Nobody has commented on Momo's condition since Aizen tricked Hitsugaya into stabbing her. Nor has any hard evidence has been show to prove that she's dead. After she said "Shiro-chan... why?", we saw nothing of her; Hitsugaya just screamed and charged blindly at Aizen. After that, we did not see her dead, and we were not given any details by a character about her fate.
 * 2: Any beliefs about the statuses of the characters that have no evidence to support their claims (i.e., Grimmjow being dead, Ulquiorra being alive, Harribel being alive, etc.) is nothing more than fan interpretations; if you cannot cite or reference the mistake you might think we made, then you cannot contradict what we have stated, as there is no evidence to support your belief, other than a "strong feeling" you might have; in short, a character's statement, regardless of whether he/she is a liar or not, is much more reliable than an unsourced belief that is not recognized as canon.
 * 3: Like it or not, the administrators themselves recognize Ichimaru's words to be official, as there has been nothing posted or stated in the manga or by Tite Kubo yet to contradict his words. All that has happened is the popping up of fans who would like us to change what we have because they feel that Ichimaru is lying, and he has lied to Aizen a lot, but he has stated nothing as to what he said regarding Rangiku's condition to be a lie or not, nor have we been shown any physical proof that Ichimaru's been lying about Rangiku's condition. Arrancar109 (Talk)  17:09, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah,Byakarui is right.Did you see Rangiku"die"?Did you see Gin do any besides put his sword up to her neck?Huh?!Unless your god himself,I don't we've got any evidence that Gin killed her.

Beside,Gin says a million things and most of them aren't remotely true.Hockey Machete (talk) 19:53, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

See that post up there by Arrancar109, the one saying that Rangiku will be listed as deceased, yeah he is an admin. His word is final. We do not have the ability to distinguish what Gin lies about and what he is telling the truth about. Because of this, we must take everything he says to be truth until otherwise proven false. The only other option is to take everything he says as a lie until proven true. If this were done though, we have to say he has feelings for Rangiku, he is not snake like, he never wanted to kill Aizen, his name is not Gin Ichimaru, see the problems here. She is dead--God (Pray)  20:03, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Arrancar109, I am replying back to your third statement :)

I disagree. Unfortunately a lot of people think that wiki is the source of truth, for valid information on a particular subject. Some people have even used wikipedia for doing homework in high schools or in colleges. Some Universities have actually banned Wikipedia from being used as a main source of information? Why? Because anyone can write anything in and not be true.

When I go to the main bleach wiki page I do give the admins a round of appluse for writing this:

Bleach database that anyone can edit! 178,586 edits to 1,165 articles since July 2005! You can help us by contributing!

This wiki contains a plethora of spoilers relating to Bleach. Read at your own risk!

At least their honest about the quality of articles. Perhaps they should add in “The status of each character may changed as story continues”

Sure the administrators of this wiki may think that just because Ichimaru's words of Rangiku being dead to be official does not make it true. It's an opinion, not a fact.

Also on http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Tite_Kubo_Interviews If you search for Rangiku's name you'll find:


 * Q: Do you have a favorite female character in Bleach?
 * TK: Hmm. Yoruichi and Rangiku! Their attitude is like, they just don't care what people think of them! (laughs) I have a lot of fun drawing them and creating stories with them.
 * If the god himself, TK, favorite character in bleach is Rangiku and has a blast drawing her and writing stories with her... Why would he write her dead all of the sudden? If anything she would be one of the last characters to die..

Please do the right thing by listing her status as being “incapacitated” or “unknown”.

ByakuyaMayuri (talk) 20:27, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Look, this is how things work. Gin said "I killed her" -> as a wiki we HAVE TO list her as dead as it is not for us to judge whether Gin is lying or not. IF we see Rangiku wake-up or do something next chapter, we'll return her to alive and change our pages accordingly. However, at this point, assuming Gin lied is speculations. We saw her lying, unmoving, with a shocked and frozen expression, bleeding from her mouth and then Gin said he killed her and Aizen confirmed that her Reiatsu disappeared. The weight of evidence says she is dead. Incidentally, yes Hinamori's status would have been listed as "dead" following the End of Hypnosis chapter where Aizen declared her dead and would have remained dead until Unohana explained that she was going to perform emergency healing procedures on both Hitsugaya and Hinamori, thus indicating that however severely injured, she was alive. I repeat, we do not speculate and thus must put down as things are presented no matter how ephemeral the presentation. Rangiku may well be alive, I certain hope so, she may also be brought back to life by Orihime, I hope for this too. But until Kubo reveals something concerning her status in the manga - assuming she is live and that Gin lied is speculation! Tinni  (Talk)  20:39, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

That interview means nothing. The fact of the matter is Gin says she is dead. THERE IS NOT ONE PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT CAN DISPROVE THIS. That interview was before Gin killed her. Leave it be. She is dead until otherwise proven. This is how things work on this site. The manga is our main source for information and until either Kubo comes out and says that she is alive or something in the manga contradicts our current ruling, she will remain dead. Now drop it--God (Pray)  20:40, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

I think that's where the problem is. Right now, we don't know for absolute certainty when Gin is lying and telling the truth. Because we're not Gin. So that means we have to take what he says as being truth until he says differently or it's stated within the manga differently. Everyone's argument is "Gin is a liar, therefore he's lying about her death". These statements are more personal interpretations and speculating that he's lying because he's lied so many times before. There is no facts to support that she's alive because everyone is guessing or "feels" that he's lying because he's lied before. The only proof that we have is Gin's line that says "I killed her". And since we see Rangiku's ( what appears to be ) lifeless body, we have to go with her as deceased until somethone or something says otherwise. She very well might not be dead. There are plenty of tricks to mask reiatsu, and yes, Gin could be lying. But I have no proof that shows that. It's only what I feel, but not know for certain. I would be more comfortable with "Unknown" status, but it's the rule of the site. So until then, we follow the rules, which have been voted on and agreed upon until something happens that proves without a shadow of a doubt, that she is still alive.Northstar1012 (talk) 20:45, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

I think the issue here is the difference between using the information available over the personal opinions of others. To say the current status we use is an opinion is largely incorrect. Its factual information based on the information presented. The information is only placed the way that it is presented. As previous others have stated we can only list said status as thus confirmed. We could have listed that status as unknown if there was a question of her status. (i.e. there was no indication of what happened in that altercation as we never saw the outcome or it was never stated anything happened that could determine her exact status as it was completely ambiguous). Unfortunately we saw here injured prone body, we have a confession from her attacker and a confirmation of dissipated spiritual pressure. Also the use of Gin's a liar doesn't hold. Yes Gin is anything but trustworthy to say the least but he hasn't openly lied about anything that I can recall other then his bankai issue which is actually a brilliant strategy on his part, not to mention it was a lie of omission its not like his bankai doesn't reach longer at higher speeds. As Godisme said, thats ridiculous to assume everything he says is a lie because of that. I also wanted to point out there is nothing wrong with the quality of the articles here, if anyone can find erroneous information that is unreferenced in the majority of this site that point of stating the greater status of wiki not being welcomed at schools and so forth would hold water but it doesn't. Also make note we say spoilers here but the manga is brought out on the regular bases so its not like the information is unknown to the vast majority of true diehard fans who dont just follow the anime. The point being overall for this issue we give plenty of opportunity to address the situations when we go over the material and as stated by others we can only go with what we know from the information. I dont want Rangiku to be dead either and hopefully she isn't but it is not personal preference but the story which determines her status. In other words Ulquiorra's dead, Harribel's dead, Rangiku's dead plain and simple as all are either clearly shown or stated as such in the story. That is the official stand on how to handle these cases and not that well we hope she is alive so therefore she is. --Salubri (Talk)  21:23, August 12, 2010 (UTC)