Category talk:Hand-to-Hand Combat Masters

Change to Hand-to-Hand Combat Masters?
So something that I've noticed in regards to this category, Category:Hakuda Experts, and I guess the hypothetical-but-potentially-useful Category:Hakuda Practitioners is that they seem...needlessly exclusionary. Because Shinigami are far from the only sword-wielding characters in the series, we use Category:Master Swordsmen and Category:Expert Swordsmen to refer to them, Arrancar, Quincy, and Fullbringers because the latter three don't practice/were not taught Zanjutsu - yet we have dozens of characters of those groups who demonstrate great skill at hand-to-hand combat or even use it as their primary fighting style (e.g. Grimmjow Jaegerjaquez), but aren't contained in a category dedicated to non-Hakuda martial arts combatants...so they're just kinda left by the wayside instead.

Now, making a separate category just for them seems pointless, so for the sake of consistency and being able to properly categorize everything, I suggest we move this category + the Expert one to Master/Expert Hand-to-Hand Combatants, update them on the whopping 17 Shinigami pages we're currently using them on, and finally add them to the Arrancary/Quincy/Bount/etc. character pages that have either of those in their Powers & Abilities sections. Thoughts?--Xilinoc (talk) 22:43, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

I mean I guess I see your point, while it stands to reason that all Hakuda users are Hand-to-Hand combatants not all hand-to-hand combatants are Hakuda users. So listing everything under that hand-to-hand as a category would make sense. 00:26, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

I’m kind of on the same page as Sal, I mean you could indeed make the argument for two separate labels, but in reality you are grasping at straws and my rule is always less clutter the better. 02:00, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

So, if I understand correctly, you want to fuse the various Hakuda and Hand-to-Hand categories? So that characters such as Grimmjow and Yammy could be included? I also agree. In fact, if you ask me, I'd like to go even further. You see, it has always bothered me that the Zanjutsu page only includes Shinigami and Visored, despite the fact that various other characters (Starrk, Nelliel, Yhwach, Gerard) have also demonstrated exceptional swordsmanship skills. Now, you might argue that Zanjutsu only refers to Shinigami combat, but I actually disagree. Even ignoring the fact that the various users are outright described as "Master Swordsmen" and "Expert Swordsmen", there is also the fact that Zanjutsu also outright translates to just "Swordsmanship". What I mean, is that I don't think it's a specific type of swordfighting style, but just rather swordfighting skills in general. Plus, not to mention, even if you exclude Quincy, I do think Arrancar can count as they also use Zanpakuto. Timjer (talk) 10:01, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

But as you mentioned earlier it was done to differentiate between species so if you want to create a seperate thing for hand-to-hand that is fine but Hakuda is exclusively for soul reapers and is one of the four basic fighting styles along with Zanjutsu, Kidō, and Hohō. Including everybody in these categories is not accurate at all it is an art practiced and differentiates from standard hand-to-hand combat, or swordsmanship. While it is true that other characters fight hand-to-hand their techniques differ vastly. For example, there are many characters specialize in use of different weapons, like whips or axes but are kept seperate for obvious reasons. Same with movement techniques it is to differentiate, check databooks for reference.--Tuxedo12 (talk) 12:40, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

@Timjer: No, what I mean is that we currently do not have categories for experts and masters in general, non-Hakuda hand-to-hand combat, and that we should just rename these two categories to encompass all characters with proficiency in that field instead of just Shinigami, in line with how we have Master/Expert Swordsman categories instead of Zanjutsu Masters/Experts ones. And while I'm fine with keeping Arrancar and the like in that latter category set, I'm not about to say they practice Zanjutsu simply because they were never formally taught by Shinigami or the Shin'ō Academy, so that should remain exclusive to Shinigami characters.

As for the idea of it being inaccurate to include both kinds of hand-to-hand combat styles in one category...dude, this isn't Hajime no Ippo, we really aren't shown or told enough about Hakuda to truly differentiate it from regular punching, kicking, grappling, etc. other than the occasional energy burst performers can use. It's a lot simpler and easier for readers for them to all be lumped together in one category for everyone to see instead, same with everyone who uses a sword with any degree of proficiency.--Xilinoc (talk) 17:29, 10 July 2022 (UTC)