Talk:Shinigami/Archive 1

A Few Tips
In this Wiki we use "Shinigami" not "Soul Reaper(s)" if you see Soul Reaper(s) in an article please change it. If and article such as this one has internal links like Main article: Gotei 13 or others please verify those articles before you add any new info that way we do not have multiple pages that say the ssme thing.WhiteStrike 21:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Somehow Done ;) Mili-Cien

Automated transfer of Problem Report #14433
The following message was left by Terb8210 via PR #14433 on 2008-10-16 18:30:06 UTC

Missing the 'uniforms' section, is mentioned in apperance but information is missing

Exile?
I'm pretty sure Yoruichi was never exiled. For one, in TBTP she was never punished and secondly she was able to enter the Soul Society while Urahara, tho only shinigami to be stated as exiled, was unable to do so. If she had been exiled, she would be unable to enter. RecklessFire 19:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Yoruichi is in exile but in her case its a self imposed exile she left her previous life behind figuring they would no doubt realize it was her who saved urahara, tessai and the vizard from judgment and she would get in trouble. Although she was not formally exiled she left soul society of her own will for all purposes.Salubri 20:43, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't that make it abandonment? Exile is defined as being away from one's home (i.e. city, state or country) while either being explicitly refused permission to return and/or being threatened by prison or death upon return. It's not exactly something that can be self-imposed, per se. So unless it was directly stated somewhere in the manga that she was exiled, you cannot classify her as such. It's a semantics issue, but it is still rather valid. RecklessFire 03:32, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Your starting a pointless argument its not abandonment, considering she would have gotten in trouble for aiding in the escape of prisoner's and defying the law. She left for the very reason you give all she abandoned where her titles and positions. if exile isnt something that can be self imposed then the term wouldn't exist.Salubri 03:41, 24 July 2009 (UTC)


 * It's never implied that anyone knew what she had done. Soifon never knew, she simply wondered why she left, and she was her bodyguard. Given the reactions of her return, one has to assume the case to be that no one knew. Exile can still exist if not self-imposed, because a government can still impose it, obviously making it not self-imposed.RecklessFire 04:03, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Which goes back the point of self imposed exile, she exiled herself from her former life on the bases that they would find out it was her, as she stated to urahara after saving him, she implied they would find out. The fact that they may not have doesn't really matter. She was gone for 100 years they didn't exile her she exiled herself.Salubri 04:15, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Shinigami Death
It kind of bothers me, because I seem to recall Shinji saying "They didn't die. If they died AND HAD TURNED INTO REIRYOKU...<-"

He says more but this is the important part. This article says nothing about this. Shouldn't we at least add that it has been mentioned that some Shinigami believe they will turn into reiryoku when they die? It seems like a pretty valuable piece of information, at the very least for this article. It also explains why some Arrancar turned to dust (which, in reality, would then be reiryoku) when they died. (Ps: this will only be an explanation if the timespan between death and turning into reiryoku differs between different persons, and can even occur when still alive (Ulquiorra))

PS: he says this in the Turn Back The Pendulum Mini-Arc

I am not entirely sure what you are trying to say? Shinji isn't the only one who says this, Kaien did so as well. They were referring to the spirit body, which like a human body, breaks down after death. In the case of souls in Soul Society, their body breaks down into spirit particles that make up Soul Society. However, that doesn't mean that the actual soul does not return to the cicle of life and death. That was established by Rukia way back in Agent of the Shinigami arc. So really mentioning that spirit bodies decompose is equivalent to adding, human bodies decompose after death. Tinni  (Talk)  01:29, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Kanji and translation
Long story short, I asked Adam for the kanji of for Gentei Kaijo and the meaning of Kikanshinki. Turns out where was subtle error on the page as the "Gentei kaijo" is the command to release the seals and not the seals themselves. It's all been fixed. Below is what Adam said. Put comments and questions here, etc, etc. Tinni   (Talk)  10:42, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Gentei kaijo (限定解除) is "limit rescission" or "limit/restriction cancellation"--the thing they were awaiting permission for. The actual seals themselves are mentioned as "soul-limiting seals" (限定霊印 gentei reiin), but whether this is their official name or simply a descriptive term, I'm not sure. Kikanshinki's kanji seem correct; apparently they signify "account-replacing 'spirit' device," i.e a device or contrivance the death 'spirits' (Shinigami) use to replace the "accounts" (= "memories") of witnesses to supernatural events. Adam Restling 09:43, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Soul Reaper or Shinigami?
I must say this: Soul Reaper sounds way cooler than Shinigami. What are you guys, like, part Japanese or something? --Linkzelda1234 19:04, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

We try to stay true to the manga and the original japaneese translations. Shinigami does not translate to Soul Reaper. We use shinigami because that is what the manga says--Godisme (Talk)  19:08, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Actually Shinigami does translate to soul reaper. First, the term shinigami first appeared in the late 19th century, when Japan first had contact with the modern western world. The japanese shinigami, is actually their representation of our grim reaper(That is why Barragan's ressureccion looks so much like our grim reaper). Also shinigami is often mistranslated, do not use google for translation. Shinigami actually means "death spirit" NOT DEATH GOD, this is often and common mistranslation. So, another name for a spirit is a soul, and since again shinigami is originally from western culture we still use the connection death = grim reaper. So, technically speaking "soul reaper" is the more politically correct term, when referring to the majority of the characters from Bleach, but to each his own, either translation is correct. Viz likely made it "soul reaper" because shinigami is a popular subject in manga, and kubo's characters are unlike any previous incarnation of it, so to make kubo's creation original, they changed it to soul reaper. --Lemursrule 19:20, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

True but we go by original translations which would be death spirit. Death to reaper is a bit of a stretch even though it is a common association. On this site we almost always use the original japaneese if the term is well enough understood.--Godisme (Talk)  19:24, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Thats fine with me whatever you prefer, but the japanese to english should be changed from death god to death spirit, because the other translation is just plain out wrong. I mean think about it, why would aizen try to become god if he was already one. Soul reapers or shinigami are kind of like angels and the soul king is kind of like god. I think the death god thing came from the VERY EARLY fansubs of Bleach back in 2004. Some fansubber probably thought "well the word death spirt sucks, I'm gonna change it to something that f*#ing kicks a*$...DEATH GOD! I AM SOO F*#ING AWESOME!" Then not long after that wikipedia came around and long story short, the old translation stayed. I mean just thinking about it even though "death god" sounds awesome, in the continuity of bleach, it just doesn't make sense.--Lemursrule 23:06, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Whatever! I'm changing this from Shinigami to Soul Reaper WETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT! --Linkzelda1234 19:55, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Please lets all stay civil, everyone can have their own opinion, you can't tell people off for not agreeing with your own opinion. As said before, both shinigami and soul reaper are both correct, whether you call a character a soul reaper or a shinigami is your choice.--Lemursrule 23:06, April 23, 2010 (UTC)

Ok the point being this issue was decided long ago and the term Shinigami is what we use period. As far as opinion it is what is for various people. The term Soul Reaper is not used here and if it is placed in any of the articles it will be removed and the user involved will be blocked for adding false information or inserting nonsense. We westernize alot of concepts for western understanding but we try to maintain their Japanese origin and pay homage to that as much as possible. If you don't like to use the proper terms and/or dont appreciate Japanese culture or the work of Tite Kubo, then you dont have to frequent the site. Salubri (Talk)  00:00, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

whole or most
in the substitute shinigam section it says that gave all her power to ichigo whereas in the anime it says she gave most of it to him enabling her to still use low level kido.Karan8 19:15, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

The section is correct this site goes from the manga which is written and drawn by Kubo himself and therefore the actual information. In the manga Rukia specifically states that Ichigo was supposed to get half her power but he ends up taking all her power. So the information is correct and is referenced to that point. Salubri (Talk)  20:11, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

but then how does rukia use kido or is it because her powers are coming back?Karan8 20:19, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Depends on her definition of all. She obviously was elaborating she was still a spirit and therefore had enough left to still use kido for a bit but no as soon as she entered the gigai it didn't allow for her to regain her powers it made her worse.

Yoruichi exiled?
Where in bleach does it say that Yoruichi is exiled? If anyone could give me a link to prove that she was exiled that would be great. Yoruichi shunko (talk) 10:05, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

At the end of Turn Back the Pendulum Arc she gets away with Urahara, that was exiled with the Visoreds. She isn't exiled by the Gotei 13 but by choice, as he believed and was Kisuke's friend. マルセロ - Marcelo (Talk) 18:00, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Reincarnation
I've been reading almost everywhere about Shinigami being reincarnated into humans. I'm guessing this is speculation/justification for Ichigo/Kaien stuff, right. マルセロ - Marcelo (Talk) 20:47, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed it is speculation. When a Shinigami dies, their spirit particles become part of the Soul Society itself (if I'm not mistaken). Kaien was an exception because his soul traveled to Hueco Mundo with the Hollow Metastacia, with whom it was merged, and it was later consumed by Aaroniero. So no, Ichigo is not Kaien's reincarnation and Shinigami don't reincarnate into humans. Lia Schiffer  (Talk)  20:54, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

I think there is a miscommunication here about something that should be obvious knowledge. The manga never simply says this but the the databook souls specifically states that "Once a soul has spent a certain amount of time in the Soul Society, it is reborn into the human world." Therefore considering that the entire concept of death in bleach is based upon a reincarnation model that even in spiritual death this is true. So either two options regardless of whether you die of old age or battle wounds or simply disappear when your time is up there, you are reborn into the world of the living or if you die as a spirit you simply turn into spirit particles and become part of soul society. Neither instance has been elaborated on. In any case Shinigami are still souls and are subject to those same laws that govern normal souls despite their higher spiritual level. --Salubri (Talk)  21:02, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

I knew souls were reborn to the human world, but I think it was Rukia who said Shinigami who died became part of Soul Society, so I assumed it was just souls who inhabit in the Rukongai the ones subject to this "reincarnation" cycle. But as you said, it has not been really elaborated into, so I'm not sure Lia Schiffer   (Talk)  21:08, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Lia may be right. Well, thanks for clearing it up. Of course the Kaien part I already knew it, I'm not one of those fans :P

Nah, really. Thanks マルセロ - Marcelo (Talk) 21:28, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Right about what she just said she didn't know. As stated there is no way to be sure what happens with Shinigami they are not bound by the same rules for souls because they are the ones that govern the process but it is very likely their role makes them the same as Kaien stated. --Salubri (Talk)  18:47, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Name
Doen't the MASKED Data book say they are called Soul Reapers? Should the name be changed?Kuzer (talk) 17:44, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

We use the original Japanese and thus it stays as Shinigami--God (Pray)  17:46, October 17, 2010 (UTC)

Soul Reapers
The beginning of the article denotes the term as "Viz's Soul Reaper." It's used all over Japanese material, which Viz has nothing to do with until they localize something. It's misleading, and leads one to think Viz came up with the term, when they most certainly did not, but Mr. Kubo himself. I'm not very savvy to code, so not sure how to remove Viz's name from it.

It says. Viz, Soul Reaper. It means that Viz uses the term soul reaper and not shinigami or the more literal translation of death god. It will not be removed.--God (Pray)  20:53, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

I call BS on this. I have yet to see any source showing that Kubo Tite came up with the term. Viz made it up until somebody can prove it. SeaTerror (talk) 23:44, January 25, 2011 (UTC)

There is no reason to call "BS". Soul Reaper was written out in plain English letters in Bleach: Official Character Book 2 MASKED, a databook that Viz is yet to touch. To see scans of the relevant pages and discussion surrounding it, please go here. Anyway, since the original topic has been addressed and I have clarified that Kubo does indeed support Soul Reaper as an acceptable interpretation of what a Shinigami is, I am closing this discussion. Tinni  (Talk)  00:09, January 26, 2011 (UTC)

Substitute Shinigami Question
Can we add any of the info Ginjo told us about the Substitute Shinigami, like how the badges double as a monitoring device and reiatsu regulator?


 * All that information is placed under substitute shingiami badge on ichigo's page.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  04:28, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

Where are they born?
I think that there's wrong information when there's said that sometimes a Shinigami is born among the residents of the Rukongai and in some rare cases from Seireitei. According to the Official Character Book Souls it's told that the shinigami is born in the Rukongai in rare cases. And doesn't the shinigami often born in the Seireitei? You can check it from your character book if you have one, page 97.


 * First sign your posts. Secondly The content is actually accurate regardless of the databook. If you have read/watched Bleach you will notice that besides whats stated in the databook Majority of the Shinigami are from Rukongai and in fact born there, there are also those that were not necessarily born there but are from there. All seireitei residents are born there with small exceptions.--<font color="00BFFF" size="2px">Salubri <font color="1E90FF" size="2px">(Talk)  20:19, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Appearance
The mentioned section of the article says that Jidanbō Ikkanzaka is a shinigami, which is incorrect. --<font style="background: black" face="Courier" color="white"> The Goblin  <font style="background: white" face="Courier" color="black"> I'm feelin' the flow   18:42, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Romanji
isn't "Death Gods" the English translation rather than the romanji? Shouldn't the Romanji be something like "shinigami"? just a bit confused
 * Death Gods is not the romaji, it is the english translation. There are two english translations listed because VIZ translates it differently and so that is noted.--

Sort of opening an old can of worms
This has been bothering me for awhile. While the direct romanji translation of Shinigami is death god and Viz and Offical English Shueshia sources other than viz has it as Soul Reaper (example English version of the Japanse weekly shonen jump website and Masked) in the article we have it just as Viz's translation. I find that slightly inaccurate, is there any way we can have it as Viz and Shueshia or something along those lines? -- 18:10, July 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * So basically instead of Viz's translation, you want it to say Viz & Shueshia's translation.--

Yeah, basically. To me right now as it is written its implying that just Viz came up with that, which is not the case in this instance.-- 18:38, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Ok i guess.--

I mean its small, but unlike the anime where certain attack names and incantations are changed to fit lip flaps, manga translations and any changes are first made by Shueshia, since it is written the way in the offical character books by Kubo, although it isn't the direct translation, Soul Reaper is the canon English translation of Shinigami and should be noted as such, without having to change every single article and have shinigami remain the primary term.-- 18:47, July 5, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. 19:31, July 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Soul Reaper is in fact the americanized translation which is what Viz deal in when marketing to the west to say its an accurate translation flies in the face of the whole reason we have a translation corner. So its not an accurate translation of Shinigami its the companies version of the easy way to translate content. This has always been an argument between the question of whether we want heavily americanized and inaccurate version or the actual translation of japanese language which is what the translation corner deals in. We decided long ago that the Viz versions were not what we were about and that far more accurate translations were the way to go, so changing from Shinigami isnt even an option otherwise we might as well scrap the translation corner and copy and past everything viz says all together.--

That's what I'm saying it is no way an option at all. It has been and always should be shinigami because that is the original Japanese term and we use the Japanese terminology. But I think it would be wise to add a footnote that Viz, Kubo, and Shueshia's "translation" to English is "Soul Reaper," because might know it implies Viz came up with the name when in all likely hood Viz's parent company, Shueshia, likely suggested that it would be more marketable in that way to western audiences, rather than censorship, because Shinigami is used in other Viz manga translations such as death note and the term was agreed upon or suggested by Kubo.-- 20:34, July 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * Im not of the mind that believes kubo suggests that usage. ive never seen anything that would lead me to believe that as all. the databooks which i have dont list him at all in the team that puts the book the together or even does the translation. For all purposes it would suggest that shueshia and viz are the ones behind this. Now if there is something that says Kubo was asked how he translates this word, then yes i would agree otherwise we assume he has more control over his translated material then is possible other then when something is explicitly written in english or another language in the manga. I think we all would like for Kubo to have that much say in how something is translated but if shinigami is in the manga as its kanji is in the raw then we are just assuming. This notion has been stated for a while and I havent seen proof and if it is true it should be posted on the site somewhere. Otherwise its the Kubo said As is a male at the german interview that no one can verify all over again.--