Forum:Zanpakuto Arc Pt. 2

Even with so little shown as far as the episodes so far. This arc is so sick. I cant even believe the information flowing out of this arc its crazy. So from my previous post on zanpakuto arc, turns out im right about the whole they couldn't get Ryujin Jakka and having to get the general out of the way thing. Cool so Rukia's getting owned by Sode no Shirayuki and Byakuya what happened who knows (we all know he's fine) but still interesting. The zanapkuto spirits are devastating to say the least without the Gotei 13 are at a disadvantage. Whats interesting the Sogyo no Kotowari and Katen Kyokatsu was all that was needed to seal the general, which completely makes sense. The zanpakuto spirits wielding their shikai form and turning into their bankai form and attacking its crazy. Can't wait for more.Salubri 02:01, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I like the information of this demi-filler. However, bleach fillers have this certain feel of... almost stupidity among the characters in order to advance the plot. In all the time of fighting the spirits, all of them opt for using their now-powerless zanpakuto, and only in one instance is kido used (by Byakuya to bind Kazeshini), and none after that. Had he used a high-level kido or maybe even his level of Sokatsui, he could have blasted the released form of his Zanpakuto. The marked "stupidity" is that he used a technique that worked, and then didn't use it again. It's like wielding two swords and breaking one, then insisting on using the broken one exclusively despite the other one working fine. It's nice to see some original material in this otherwise filler, but they could have plotted it better. And we know Kenpachi would have had no trouble there, why do you think he wasn't on the scene? Ahh well, this had better have a good conflict to it. (And the odds are that the fight is also going to be Sokyoku hill, they'll probably also run the dangai again).

I agree that they do seem to act a bit idiotically in these filler arcs, like Renji trying multiple times to activate shikai even when he knew it didn't work, or characters have a tendency to say or do things just for taking up more episode time, like watching Rukia scream "nii-sama" again and again. But I kinda get the kido thing, since in general, most Shinigami seem to rely on using their swords more than using kido. And to suddenly change your fighting style would be difficult. Twocents 04:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

This arc is OK so far. And yes...I agree that the characters are acting rather stupidly to the events. I was expecting to see some awesome new Kido rolled out to make the fight more evenly matched. On top of that there was Ichigo not even questioning if his zampakuto would remain or still is loyal or if it would become subject to whatever power is making them traitorous. Ichigo, frankly, is the last person you want to send into a potential catastrophe like this since 80% of his power is because of Zangetsu.

Complaints aside its still a very interesting arc. I like all of the spirit forms and their sheer viciousness. You wouldn't expect Momo's zampakuto to be so willfully destructive. Great Cthulhu 04:19, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I follow the style change idea, but it can't be that hard for a captain, who is (with some exceptions) skilled in more than just one field. Well, let't wait... 5? episodes for them to send Ichigo in, who (as a main character) is exempt from the disease/curse/crippling injury/sniper fire/etc. that usually incapacitates most characters in these circumstances. I'd say it would also be a good plan to get Kenpachi in (who might actually be stronger if his zanpakuto's power was gone), and Yoruichi, and Tessai, and well, maybe drag the mod souls in, they usually do in fillers. I also smell a fight against Zangetsu's spirit during Ichigo's upcoming encounter with Muramasa (he'll appear, Ichigo will attack (once?), he'll cast his spell, Ichigo spends 2-3 episodes grappling with Zangetsu. Then comes some kinda chase scene or a systematic fight with each spirit).

Sorry to be throwing posts left and right. I do like how vicious they are, but is this their real character or is it influenced? Hitsugaya's meeting with Hyorinmaru suddenly shattering and Zangetsu's odd dialog seems to point at them being influenced without their knowledge. I'm guessing these spirits are distillations of the darker aspects of their personalities.

I concur Great Cthulhu. It does seem odd that Ichigo and Urahara simply said that because they were on Earth, they were exempt from losing their Zanpakuto and didn't even consider the possibility. I do, however, find it interesting that the Zanpakuto chose to left for some reason, as seen by how Yamamota's Zanpakuto chose not to, which makes me wonder their reasons for doing so. However, I don't really have any complaints about this arc. As far as fillers go, I find this one to be deeply fascinating, and it's actually kind of nice to follow two different storylines between the anime and manga, rather than watching the anime censor or otherwise adjust my favorite scenes from the manga, to drag it out or make it more interesting or whatever. Twocents 04:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Well its already stated by the simple title for the 4th episode Ichigo will fight Zangetsu as he will turn on him. I don't see much danger in that fight considering that while Zangetsu is majority of his power in a fight, Ichigo has already been through this to get his bankai. Also its not seemingly relevant about the spell or whatever not effecting those in the real world. That seems to be the case as we have seen so far, Urahara is usually the brains in this matter so there is really no reason to doubt him. Ichigo not seeming to be really concerned is probably a more important issue i would think. Also in the last post I had came up with the idea that Yamamoto was taken out of the equation as he is so old and powerful and his zanpakuto is the oldest in soul society, the most powerful fire type and has the greatest attack power in all soul society. So it was more inclined to be more attuned to yamamoto then any one elses zanpakuto was to them. Then Maramasa basically says that they had to seal him because his zanpakuto wouldn't cooperate with him, thus confirming my suspicion. I do agree that the characters arent really doing enough in the fight but to be fair its only the 2nd episode. This arc is interesting but presents a significant problem in how its suppose to come about to an end if the primary means of combat is being taken out but this is a good chance to see skill outside of the zanpakuto. Zanjutsu, Hoho, Kido, Hakuda. All will be the only thing to do combat with. Know one knows their zanpakuto better then those who wield it. I'll wait for more this info is good.Salubri 04:44, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I can think of several reasons for why the Zampakuto are so vicious. One is they are controlled by Murumasa and are doing his will. Two is that the power that gives them independence corrupts them in some way so the negative aspects come forward. Three...they are weapons first and foremost. They aren't being MORE vicious...they are simply doing what weapons do and wreck stuff. Great Cthulhu 04:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I'll go with the attunement on that, Yamamoto and his zanpakuto are very old, and from appearances and his style, they've fought together for a very long time, any doubts or issues they've had have probably been resolved. I almost get the impression that Ryujin Jakka is like a loyal dog, he seems the type who mastered bankai by completely beating down the spirit. Being so loyal, Muramasa's spell probably doesn't have any negative emotions or doubts to play on to make him rebel.

It's hard to say to what degree they're being manipulated. It's possible that Murumasa simply provided an out for them, through the spell that they could not provide for themselves, and for a variety of reasons, they took it. I would agree that they're just doing what weapons do though - no one could argue that weapons are intended for any reason other than destruction. Twocents 05:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

That is true weapons will do what they are made for, so we cant fault them for that. But even with this arc and the spirits independence. we can't forget that the zanpakuto spirit is an individual but its also apart of its wielder's soul so either way whatever purpose they are going for it seems to be against themselves thats the weird thing. So they must be controlled and manipulated if the wielder dies they die to that was stated at the beginning of the episode. What is the murumasa guy up to if the spirits wipe out their wielders they are gone and then what happens he is left to rule.Salubri 05:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

This arc presents a very good storyline. Renegade Zanpakuto's of our favorite characters, showing their appearance and personality which many have been wondering about. I can't help but wonder what will happen further on in the story. I believe that most likely, everyone's gonna have to fight their own Zanpakuto. It will be interesting seeing how they fend off with out their main weapon, which they use 85% of the time, maybe even more. But I do hate how they make the Captains so weak. The fox/wolf captain lost in one strike and under a min. The other captains are helpless as the Zanpakutos destroy Soul Society. I can re-call a number of times where the captains have held their ground against an enemy with just their sealed sword. This should be almost the same situation. And they are should be skilled in all the forms of fighting(Zanjutsu, HoHo, Kido, etc.). The 13 captains are supposed to be the strongest in Soul Society yet they were over powered so easily. I think Byakuya could've held his ground a bit longer in that short match with Senbonsakura. I would expect people like Renji, Ikkaku, Yumichika, and Rukia to be beaten so easily, but the others have no excuse. I'm also wondering whether or not Rujin Jakka will make an appearance also, that would be epic. The Zanpakutos are being manipulated in my eyes. To me they have no reason to be angry at the Shinigami's. Rujin Jakka is probably so strong, he can't be manipulated, which led to sealing the Commander.--Mr.Zeke 05:15, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Byakua's battle, I do find it very strange that for someone known for his exceptional skill in shunpo, he was easily caught. Twocents 05:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, we all know how this arc will end. I mean, come on. Of course, Ichigo's Zanpakuto has to be the ONLY one still working. I mean, even if Benehime is working, i doubt we will see a Bankai or action from Benehime. Honestly, this will end with Ichigo defeating all the spirits, then killing Muramasa in a supposed "epic" battle, whoopy doo, and we go back to Ulquiorra vs Ichigo. --Seireitou 05:49, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, Mr. Zeke. They have every right to be pissed at their owners. For example, Rangiku never once tries to reach common ground with Haineko, even yelling at it when it refused to appear. Momo shows incredible weakness, due to her naivite, and lack of murderous drive. Hisagi refuses to use Shikai, like pretty much ever, not allowing Kazeshini to do what it wants. And even Byakuya, Senbonzakura was never appreciated. It was treated like no more then a simple replaceable katana. In my opinion, the Shinigami are to blame, for allowing their Zanpakuto to feel this way. Zangetsu, along with Ryujin Jakka, were loyal to their masters. Ryujin Jakk couldnt be presuaded, because it was probably loyal to Yamamoto, resulting in needed force. In the end, the Shinigami need to see that they and the Zanpakuto are a symbiotic team, working together for eachother's benefit, not just the Shinigami's. --Seireitou 05:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)